The Whole Pineapple

"Neurodiversity," says Ruby, is basically a term explaining the unique ways people's brains work. And Ruby knows. In this episode, she's "taking down the mask" to talk about her own unique brain!

Although neurodiversity is a much more common topic than in days past, it's still pretty misunderstood. And when you pair it with fertility challenges, well, finding research or even conversations becomes really challenging.

But few are as tenacious as these two when it comes to sharing important information. They found a licensed psychologist who works in fertility and who is looking to make fertility clinics more neurodiverse-friendly. In this conversation with Dr. Kristen Chambliss, Ruby, Anne, and Dr. Chambliss tackle many of the misconceptions rooted in our culture when it comes to a diversity of neurotypes.

It's a critical conversation. After all, as Dr. Chambliss says, neurodiversity may be as crucial to the human race as biodiversity. Or, as Anne put it so well: "Variety is not a disability." Neurodivergence is not the same as intellectual disability or mental illness. And the more we understand, the less we'll have to fear. There are many strengths that come with being neurodivergent, though sadly, most of what we hear about are the struggles.

Fertility can be a particular problem for the neurodivergent individual. Fertility treatment can be especially difficult for individuals who find sensory experiences problematic, for example. Recognizing the many challenges humans as a whole struggle with means more folks get the kind of help they need, offered in the way they need it. And that's just plain good.

Dr. Kristen Chambliss is a licensed psychologist specializing in treating individuals coping with infertility, in vitro fertilization, relationship concerns, and anxiety. She currently practices in Friendswood, Texas. Not only is she an infertility specialist but she is also actively working with our professional organization, the American Society for Reproductive Medicine on a proposal to make clinics more neurodiverse friendly.

Website for the Bloom (1998) article from The Atlantic

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1998/09/neurodiversity/305909/

Damian E.M. Milton (2012) On the ontological status of autism: the 'double empathy problem', Disability & Society, 27:6, 883-887, DOI: 10.1080/09687599.2012.710008

Sasson NJ, Faso DJ, Nugent J, Lovell S, Kennedy DP, Grossman RB. Neurotypical Peers are Less Willing to Interact with Those with Autism based on Thin Slice Judgments. Sci Rep. 2017 Feb 1;7:40700. doi: 10.1038/srep40700. PMID: 28145411; PMCID: PMC5286449.

Saxena P. Assisted reproductive technology and its Association with autism in children. Fertil Sci Res 2021;8:20-4

Singer, J. (1998). Odd People In: The Birth of Community Amongst People on the Autistic Spectrum: A personal exploration of a New Social Movement based on Neurological Diversity. Sydney: Faculty of Humanities and Social Science University of Technology, Sydney.

Youtube clip for Chloe Hayden:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP84_OHOCzM

From Autistic Doctors International:

Williams, G. L., Adams, J., Bull, P., Cave, H., Chown, N., Doherty, M., Forrest, K., Foster, R., Fricker, R., Godfree, B., Keaveney-Sheath, K., Knight, J., Marrable, T., Murray, R., Shaw, S. C. K., Ventour-Griffiths, T., Wood, J. (2022) More than words: Supporting effective communication with autistic people in health care settings. Economic and Social Research Council. Available at:https://www.boingboing.org.uk/more_than_words/

Did you know we start off every recording with a clap? It's designed to allow our audio editors to line up and synchronize the audio tracks.

Today, Anne and Jamie's clap was … uhhhh … messy. At best.

But we kept it in, because it's such a good example of being just a little out of sync or alignment. And many people on the emotional and physical journey of fertility treatment know what it feels like to just feel out of sync.

One way to start feeling better is, honestly, to take a break. Take some time off from fertility treatment – it can be a few weeks, a cycle or two, whatever amount of time you need – so you can come back ready, refocused, and with more resilience in your tank.

A break can also be a good time to check in with your partner(s) on this journey. It can be a time to ensure you're fully listening to and understanding each other and "get your claps back in sync," so to speak.

In case a trip to a warm beach or snowy mountaintop isn't possible right now, Jaime is offering a meditation that will soothe and rejuvenate you. Listen along, breathe deeply, and come along on our gentle break.

Find more of Jamie's meditations and all our episodes on fertility and wellness at https://thewholepineapple.com/ or your favorite podcast app.

Shelbi Day and Rebecca Willman are back with Anne and Ruby for this short snack about family advocacy. Some BIG changes happened in United States law in 2022: The Dobbs decision (aka the reversal of Roe v Wade overturning the federal right to abortion), the many state-level laws that followed, and The Respect for Marriage Act.

Trying to understand how all of this affects family building can be confusing and overwhelming. Shelbi and Rebecca break down the details of the most influential laws of 2022, discuss what to expect going forward, and challenge all of us to become advocates for family building equality.

Their passion is inspiring, and they give actionable steps anyone can take to make a difference — for reproductive and family building rights and for LGBTQ+ families, community, and youth.

Shelbi and Rebecca (and Ruby and Anne!) urge you to pay attention, get involved, and show up for one another and for marginalized communities.

Be sure to listen to the full episode with Shelbi and Rebecca where they talk about what makes a family and share their own stories.

"Family" can be a loaded concept, and don't even get us started on the misnomer "traditional family!" Luckily we have two experts from the nonprofit organization Family Equality here to talk about the hard work their organization is doing to move toward both legal and lived equality for LGBTQ+ families. In this week's episode we are chatting with Shelbi Day and Rebecca Willman.

Shelbi Day (she/her) joined Family Equality in October 2016 as Senior Policy Counsel and now works as the Chief Policy Officer. She has dedicated her career to LGBTQ+ advocacy and law. Rebecca Willman (she/her) is Chief Community Engagement and Programs Officer at Family Equality and has spent most of her adult life ensuring bodily and emotional autonomy for individuals and families. Family Equality believes that storytelling is key to helping people understand the similarities between all types of families, and both Shelbi and Rebecca have fascinating fertility journeys to share. Have you wondered what the household feels like when both women are in the midst of fertility hormones? Or how five different people can contribute to build a family tree that is more of a lush and intertwining bush? What is the difference between a family of origin and a chosen family? What are good children's books and family traditions to help children see themselves and their family as represented and rooted in the community?

We came away from this conversation so impressed with both our guests and their organization. Fertility treatment options have expanded the complexity of options available for LGBTQ+ families. But these families existed long before ART, and unfortunately so did legal challenges to the rights of LGBTQ+ parents. Listen for a better understanding of both the legal need for a group like Family Equality, and for the stories that help us connect with one another.

Mention:

Episode 12: Celebrating LGBTQIA+ Families with If These Ovaries Could Talk (now titled The Queer Families Podcast)

Make sure to catch the short snack episode to hear all about advocacy and some of the BIG changes that took place in 2022.

Support your local indie bookstore!

Our Shelves

Family Equality Book Nook

Family Equality Fertility & Trying To Conceive Virtual Support Group

Family Equality - Family Week in Provicetown

Red: A Crayon's Story by Michael Hall - Goodreads

Anne and Ruby have a book review for you; actually two book reviews, based on your recommendations! You voted on these books a while back, and our hosts read them, enjoyed them, and are excited to share.

Both books are from Dr. Jen Gunter, OB/GYN and New York Times bestselling author. Ruby read The Vagina Bible and Anne read The Menopause Manifesto, and both said these books fight misinformation and answer questions in a way that is scientifically accurate while being funny and relatable.

Ruby shares that The Vagina Bible empowers women with information about their … infrastructure. Unfortunately, many girls and women are uninformed about their own bodies and too shy to ask. Dr. Gunter explains the difference between the vulva and the vagina (which a lot of people really don't know!). And she gives the clitoris its due. It is not a mythical creature as was satirized in an episode of South Park.

If menopause feels like a problem for future you to worry about, The Menopause Manifesto explains how it can be thought of as "puberty in reverse" and relevant to understand regardless of your current phase of life. The history of how we look at menopause (a term that just celebrated its 200th anniversary!) can teach us a lot about both our bodies and society. As Dr. Gunter says in her dedication, "Your awesomeness is unrelated to your estrogen".

We would love to hear what you thought about Dr. Gunter's books too, so find us on Instagram or Twitter or send us an email at [email protected].

Keep the book recommendations coming! We plan to do more book reviews this year.

Find both of Dr. Gunter's books on her website: https://drjengunter.com

Or support your local bookstore!

The Whole Pineapple Goodreads Page

Goodreads - The Vagina Bible - Jen Gunter, MD

Goodreads - Menopause Manifesto - Jen Gunter, MD

Jamie Mammenga is here with Anne for our first "Mindful Moment with Jamie" of 2023.

It's a new year and we want to talk about patterns, and how we can break the ones that are not serving us.

From checking ovulation predictor kits to early pregnancy tests, being in fertility treatment can make it feel like your life is ruled by "peeing on a stick". One of our wonderful listeners sent us a question to ask if others experience what she called "Pink Line Addiction." While "Pink Line Addiction" is a great band name, this concept of frequent home testing can really impact your life.

Anne and Jamie share great tips for thinking about this pattern, deciding if it is serving you well or not, and ways to break the cycle. Listen for ideas on distraction, the concept of "thought stopping," and a new guided meditation.

The loss of control you feel in infertility is real, and painful. We hope this episode helps you examine what patterns in your life are helpful, and what ones might need to be discarded like an old test stick.

"A tendency to cause trouble" – over history, there have been LOTS of "definitions" of hysteria. Usually from men, starting in the 5th Century BC with Hippocrates. (You've heard of the Hippocratic Oath? Yeah. That guy.) Ahem.

If you're like us, the least mention of hysteria in regards to those who identify as women really gets the hackles up. Outdated and untrue though it may be, it's still a problem: This notion of women being "hysterical" underpins much of women's struggles to get their issues recognized, respected, studied, and treated.

So in this episode, Ruby and Anne take apart these notions of women and hysteria, that great uber-diagnosis that explained All The Things. Except it didn't.

Though the episode is genuinely hilarious (note the purposeful avoidance of 'hysterical' in reference to ha ha funny), it's an important issue – women often aren't diagnosed or are mis-diagnosed for YEARS, causing not just undue suffering, but also allowing disease progression and potentially triggering inappropriate self-medicating, depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation.

So listen to the episode, laugh along with the hosts and the ludicrous ideas that "science" has held about women's bodies. Then gird your loins, gals, and be ready to advocate for yourself when remnants of that old "hysteria" idea creep into modern life. Menopause is NOT all in your head, heart attacks look different in women, cramps shouldn't be debilitating, and any medical professional who says "just deal with it" for flooding periods can f- uh, find a more suitable profession.

Looking for more great information? Find Ruby and Anne and their catalog of episodes on your favorite podcast app and at https://thewholepineapple.com/.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480686/

(Women And Hysteria In The History Of Mental Health - PMC (nih.gov))

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780128017722000011

(A brief history of hysteria: From the ancient to the modern - ScienceDirect)

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/the-controversy-of-female-hysteria#Vibrators-for-hysteria?

https://www.wired.com/2014/05/fantastically-wrong-wandering-womb/

https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2021/08/10/the-lingering-effects-of-female-hysteria-in-medicine/

https://www.themedicalcareblog.com/female-hysteria-womens-health-disparities/

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/high-court-lets-alabama-sex-toy-ban-stand/

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/562915/summary

Here is where you can read The Yellow Wallpaper

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1952/1952-h/1952-h.htm

We're making you a mixed tape! Well, the 2023 version of a mixed tape — a Spotify playlist.

Anne and Ruby share some science behind why music is so powerful in helping us manage Big Emotions like fear, uncertainty, and joy. Anne and Ruby have (quite) different musical tastes and are drawing from different perspectives. Instead of division, this shows how people of all backgrounds and preferences can experience fertility struggles and how we can connect with each other simply with our collective love for and emotional connection to music. Whatever your taste, we hope our "infertility playlist" will have songs that speak to you.

We want you to have songs for moments throughout your journey: from your first appointment, to preparing and starting an IVF cycle, egg retrieval, embryo transfer day, and all the other days before, during and after. There's so much waiting and wondering; maybe a little music can help lighten the load.

The lists include songs to lift you up, let you really feel all the feels, and give you "bad B" vibes if that's what you need.

For the record: Anne is Team N'Sync and Ruby is Team Backstreet Boys.

Anne's Spotify TWP Playlist

Song Mentions:

Sara Bareilles - Brave

Rachel Platten - Fight Song

Christina Perri - 1000 years

Stephanie Beatriz - Waiting on a miracle

Colin Hay - Waiting on my real life to begin

Imagine Dragons - Blank space/Stand by me

David Guetta with Sia - Titanium

Leslie Odom Jr., Original Broadway Cast of Hamilton - Wait for me

Guns N' Roses - Sweet Child of Mine

Sara Bareilles - She Used To Be Mine

Keala Settle, The Greatest Showman Ensemble - This Is Me

2gether - The Hardest Part of Breaking Up (Is getting back your stuff)

Ruby's Spotify TWP Playlist

Ruby's Song Mentions:

Kate Bush - Running Up that Hill

The Black Crows - Remedy

Fleetwood Mac - Don't Stop

Prince - How Come You Don't Call Me Anymore

Sonny & Cher - I Got You Babe

Club Nouveau - Lean on Me

Johnny Cash - Ghost Riders In The Sky

Foo Fighters - All My Life

Madonna - Vogue

Ru Paul - Supermodel

Ramones - I Wanna Be Sedated

John Legend - Never Break

Yo Yo Ma - The Wounded Heart, Op. 34, No. 1; Yo Yo Ma - The Carnival of the Animals. R. 125. XIII

Claude DeBussy - Reverie

Bob Marley & The Wailers, Ms. Lauren Hill - Turn your lights down low

Fleetwood Mac - Songbird

Journey - Don't Stop Believin'

Chris Cornell - Patience

Guns N' Roses - Patience

Rüfüs Du Sol - Treat You Better

Blackway, Black Caviar - What's Up Danger

Leon Bridges - Bad Bad News

AJR - Humpty Dumpty

Soundgarden - My Wave

Brick + Mortar - Voodoo Child

Jimi Hendrix - Voodoo Child

Birdy - Fire and Rain

John Denver - Fire and Rain (James Taylor, but who's counting?)

Al Green - That's The Way It Is

Listeners' Spotify TWP Playlist:To suggest songs for the listeners' playlist, message us on social @thewholepineapplepod on IG/Facebook and @wholepineapple on Twitter or email us at [email protected]

NPR Silent Dance Party Story

Music and Stress - Nechama Yehuda Article

Music and Medicine - The Official Journal of the IAMM

Brains of deaf people rewire to 'hear' music - Walter Neary UW News Article

Journey - Don't Stop Believin' (Live 1981: Escape Tour - 2022 HD Remaster)

Do you remember the name you, our lovely listeners, chose for our pineapple mascot?

"Hope."

When you're dealing with fertility challenges, holding hope can be as prickly as hugging a (real) pineapple sometimes. When others are posting their happy announcements on social media or when someone tries to give you hope when yours has run dry, well, you might feel frustration or envy or even grief instead.

So how do you stay hopeful or stay peaceful in yourself when things feel bleak? How do you protect yourself when others — with the best intentions — try to support you in a way that doesn't feel good to you?

In this conversation, Anne and Jamie Mammenga talk about how to take care of you and hold space for new hope when hope feels far away.

Jamie's mindful moment on holding hope is the perfect way to end 2022 and season 1 of The Whole Pineapple podcast.

Thanks for listening; learn more about our hosts and Seattle Reproductive Medicine at http://thewholepineapple.com. And don't forget, subscriptions, reviews, and shares make The Whole Pineapple more discoverable in searches, so please help others find us!

Resources mentioned:

Resolve.org (articles on how family & friends can support those on a fertility journey).

The Whole Pineapple's 2022 in review:

12 months of podcasting 25 FULL episodes (including this one) 49 snack episodes 19,000+ downloads 20 countries!

What a year it's been! So much has happened in 2022, and Ruby, Anne, and The Whole Pineapple team are so grateful you've shared it with us. This podcast began with the idea of sharing the science behind fertility treatments and overall wellness, and the team are all thrilled with how it's grown and where it's headed in 2023.

Picking a favorite episode is nearly impossible, with so many amazing guests, but Anne and Ruby tried. From loving Jamie Mammenga so much that we kept her, to following the changes in the science, to laughing ourselves to tears over Anne's husband Nick's ... challenges with sperm testing, the podcast has been an amazing adventure.

They say "never meet your heroes," but that hasn't been an issue on TWP; several heroes have shown up on the show, and each one was as delightful and knowledgeable as we could hope for.

Hear some of Ruby and Anne's favorites, their thoughts on changes in reproductive rights in 2022, and plans for the podcast in 2023.

If you want to hear (or hear again) any of the episodes mentioned here, you'll find them all on your favorite podcast app, or at https://thewholepineapple.com/.

Thanks again for listening, and we wish you all the best in 2023!

Resources:

The Well-Lit Lounge from The Broken Brown Egg: https://youtu.be/Cyz7cGi8MxE

More of the Well-Lit Lounge: https://thebrokenbrownegg.org/turnonthelights/

Christine McVie article: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/christine-mcvie-fleetwood-mac-dead-obtuary-1234638903/

If you have a fertility story to share, please email [email protected].