Thinking Class

William Clouston is the leader of the Social Democratic Party (SDP) in the United Kingdom and a member of the advisory board for Restore Britain. 

In this conversation, William Clouston and I think out loud about the current state of British politics, focusing on the disconnect between government promises and actual governance. We explore:

• The need for a cultural and civilisational vision beyond economics
• The challenges posed by mass immigration for social democracy and defining remigration
• The importance of governing in the national interest and what the national interest is
• Whether Western European nations will be forced into ending mass immigration by the United States' National Security Strategy 2025
• Lessons William Clouston has learned since entering politics

Follow William Clouston on X here.

You can watch and listen to my first conversation with William here:

• Watch: How Britain Began To Decline & Why Its Leaders Won't Fix It
• Listen: How Britain Began To Decline & Why Its Leaders Won't Fix It

About Thinking Class:
Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.

Hosted by John Gillam, the show features serious conversations with historians, academics, and independent thinkers.

Thinking Class is concerned with discovering long-term patterns over headlines and hot-takes. Expect historically-grounded analysis on matters of national character, institutions, demography, belief, and political legitimacy.

New episodes every week.

▶️ Subscribe on YouTube
🎧 Follow on Spotify
📰 Read on Substack
🐦 Follow on X

Eric Kaufmann is Professor of Politics at The University of Buckingham and Director of the Centre for Heterodox Social Science. He directs Buckingham’s new MA in the Politics of Cultural Conflict and PhD in Cultural Politics as well as its open online course on Woke: the Origins, Dynamics and Implications of an Elite Ideology. He is the author of Taboo: How Making Race Sacred Produced a Cultural Revolution, Whiteshift: Immigration, Populism and the Future of White Majorities, Shall the Religious Inherit the Earth, The Rise and Fall of Anglo-America, The Orange Order and one other book. He is co-editor, among others, of Political Demographyand editor of Rethinking Ethnicity: Majority Groups and Dominant Minorities. In addition to 45 peer-reviewed articles, he has written for the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Newsweek, National Review, New Statesman, Financial Times, UnHerd and other outlets.

Dr Paul Morland is an author and broadcaster who writes and speaks about population and the big demographic trends across the world, both contemporary and historic. Described as the ‘UK’s leading demographer’ and ‘one of the world’s pre-eminent demographers’ (Mercator), Paul has written four books: No One Left, Tomorrow’s People, The Human Tide and Demographic Engineering and his work has been translated into nine languages. He has written for and been interviewed in many of the world’s leading newspapers and magazines including the Financial Times, the Sunday Times, The Telegraph, The Toronto Globe and Mail, Der Spiegel and the Jerusalem Post. He has broadcast on many outlets including BBC Radio 4.

In this episode, Eric, Paul and I think out loud about the significant demographic changes occurring in the UK, particularly the decline of the white British population, which is due to become a minority in the country by the 2060s. We explore:

• the implications of these shifts on society, politics, and culture.
• theories of ethnic conflict and what the future might hold for the United Kingdom
• the roles of assimilation and intermarriage 
• the impact of DEI policies and woke culture on social trust
• the future of political ethnicity and nationalism 
• the potential for remigration, 
• the cultural shifts necessary for societal cohesion, and much much more.

Dr Paul Morland:

• Follow Paul on X
• Buy Paul's books 
• Visit Paul's website

Watch my other conversations with Paul here: 'Forget Politics, Make Babies' and 'Why Rediscovering Our Cultural Heritage Can Save The West'

Professor Eric Kaufmann:

• Follow Eric on X
• Buy Eric's books
• Subscribe to Eric's Substack
• Visit his website

Watch my other conversation with Eric here: 'Resisting Woke Taboos Will Restore Cultural Flourishing'

About Thinking Class:
Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.

Hosted by John Gillam, the show fe

Stephen Balogh is the Chairperson for the Social Democratic Party. Stephen is also active in non-profit and public policy organisations that promote the flourishing of society through the thoughtful application of socially responsible, small-c conservative politics. Following a 30-year business career, he now devotes his time to initiatives aimed at community building from local neighbourhood to international levels, whether by means of social, political or commercial exchange. Stephen has also acted as New Culture Forum’s National Organiser, helping to establish a network of “NCF Locals” groups around Great Britain and he has acted as contributing author to two NCF publications.

In this episode, Stephen and I think out loud about whether democracy is working, why people across Europe are so dissatisfied in politics and beyond, why traditional cleavages between people in politics have broken down and party loyalties are changing, how the body politic has been eroded by the elite and sections of the left and the right, and what people of Britain need to rediscover if we are to flourish, and much much more.

Follow Stephen on X here.

About Thinking Class:
Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.

Hosted by John Gillam, the show features serious conversations with historians, academics, and independent thinkers.

Thinking Class is concerned with discovering long-term patterns over headlines and hot-takes. Expect historically-grounded analysis on matters of national character, institutions, demography, belief, and political legitimacy.

New episodes every week.

▶️ Subscribe on YouTube
🎧 Follow on Spotify
📰 Read on Substack
🐦 Follow on X

Driss Ghali is a political author and speaker. Driss was born in Morocco and educated in Europe. He graduated from prestigious French universities and spent a lot of time in a corporate career focused on high-tech companies. Driss is an intellectual and observer of human nature as it is: ugly and splendid at the same time. Since 2017, he has written books about violence and identity. Driss frequently appears in French media to talk about immigration, diversity, the Middle East and French politics. One of his books has been translated into English titled, A Counter-History of French Colonization.

In this episode Driss and I think out loud about:

• the reasons behind rising violence and civil unrest in France
• why an increasing number of French Muslims are supportive of Islamist positions and Sharia Law over the laws of the Republic
• how mass immigration has precipitated an identity crisis amongst immigrants and host populations
• the perennial question of assimilation and integration
• whether civil war is possible in the event of a government led by National Rally (Jordan Bardella or Marine Le Pen); and 
• the need for a bold leader and a new vision for France's future

Listen to my first conversation with Driss here.

Follow Driss Ghali on X: https://x.com/drissghalibooks

You can find Driss Ghali's work here:

• Driss’s website
• Driss’s books

About Thinking Class:
Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.

Hosted by John Gillam, the show features serious conversations with historians, academics, and independent thinkers.

Thinking Class is concerned with discovering long-term patterns over headlines and hot-takes. Expect historically-grounded analysis on matters of national character, institutions, demography, belief, and political legitimacy.

New episodes every week.

▶️ Subscribe on YouTube
🎧 Follow on Spotify
📰 Read on Substack
🐦 Follow on X

Neema Parvini is the author of nine books including Applied Elite Theory, The Prophets of Doom, The Populist Delusion, The Defenders of Liberty, Shakespeare's Moral Compass. He has also written dozens of chapters and articles in scholarly publications and the media. Neema is the Director of Academic Agency, which he set up to focus on core academic skills and knowledge areas which can help students and learners of all ages to achieve both academic excellence and improve communication and research skills in the workplace. He runs the YouTube channel Academic Agent and the Substack The Forbidden Texts.

In this episode, Neema and I think out loud about how the Iron Law of Oligarchy explains how populist movements are co-opted and this can be seen in America, what ‘the regime’ is and why Tony Blair represents the human embodiment of it, what the 'Boomer Truth Regime' is and how it has dominated since the Second World War, why politics is like pro-wrestling, how multiculturalism often masks the interests of multinational corporations and mercantile government policy as well as advancing ethnic preferences and interests, why Neema thinks Reform UK is a containment strategy for the regime rather than a solution and why a Great Man of History and a cleansing fire is needed to see off the current crop of elites, why Neema does not subscribe to Professor David Betz’ predictions of civil war in Britain, why Neema grew disillusioned with the online right, how the modern information landscape disincentivises searching for truth, and much more.

You can find Neema's work here:

• Neema’s YouTube channel
• Neema’s books
• X/Twitter

About Thinking Class:
Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.

Hosted by John Gillam, the show features serious conversations with historians, academics, and independent thinkers.

Thinking Class is concerned with discovering long-term patterns over headlines and hot-takes. Expect historically-grounded analysis on matters of national character, institutions, demography, belief, and political legitimacy.

New episodes every week.

▶️ Subscribe on YouTube
🎧 Follow on Spotify
📰 Read on Substack
🐦 Follow on X

Alexander Chula is a medical doctor and writer working in London. His first book, Goodbye. Dr Banda was published 2023.

In this episode, Alexander and I think out loud about what an African dictator can teach the West about itself, how multiculturalism impacts conceptions of personal and national identity, the perceived cultural openness of modern society compared to the past and why engagement by middle-class Westerners on with foreign cultures on their travels are superficial in their nature, why this is a quick contrasts this with the more profound respect and curiosity exhibited by earlier generations, including those we thought were regressive or non-progressive, why British Victorian missionaries were more influential and had a greater, more positive impact than modern NGO- and aid-workers in Africa, and much, much more. 

Follow Alexander on X: https://x.com/alexanderchula
Buy Alex's book here: https://amzn.to/3XlUmLL

About Thinking Class:
Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.

Hosted by John Gillam, the show features serious conversations with historians, academics, and independent thinkers.

Thinking Class is concerned with discovering long-term patterns over headlines and hot-takes. Expect historically-grounded analysis on matters of national character, institutions, demography, belief, and political legitimacy.

New episodes every week.

▶️ Subscribe on YouTube
🎧 Follow on Spotify
📰 Read on Substack
🐦 Follow on X

Martin Sellner is an Austrian activist, author and political organiser and his "goal is to save the identity and soul of [his] nation & Europe". He is author of several books in the German language, one of which, "Regime Change From The Right", is now published in English, while another, "Remigration", will be published in English early 2026.

Martin Sellner joins John Gillam to address the sensitive topic of remigration and national identity in contemporary Europe. Placing demographic shifts and political identity in historical perspective, this conversation explores why questions about cultural cohesion and national futures are increasingly central across European societies.

This episode explores:

• the demographic pressures shaping European political discourse,
• how identity and belonging interact with state policy,
• and what “remigration” means in broader civilisational terms.

Listeners will encounter one of the most contested issues of our time framed as a structural dilemma rather than a polemic.

• Follow Martin on X
• Buy Martin's books

Listen to the other episodes in a mini-series for alternative views on 'what is to be done' about the issues facing Britain and Europe today. 

• #099 - Paul Embery - Why Diversity Is Britain's Greatest Challenge & How The Labour Party Is Punishing Britain
• #100 - Philip Cunliffe - Britain's Future Now Globalisation Is Dead: Demographics, Identity And The National Interest
• #101 - Nina Power - Beyond Deportations: The Restoration Of Britain's Soul
• #102 - David Betz - Tribes At War: The Sectarian Battle For Britain's Future & Its Grim Reality

About Thinking Class:
Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.

Hosted by John Gillam, the show features serious conversations with historians, academics, and independent thinkers.

Thinking Class is concerned with discovering long-term patterns over headlines and hot-takes. Expect historically-grounded analysis on matters of national character, institutions, demography, belief, and political legitimacy.

New episodes every week.

▶️ Subscribe on YouTube
🎧 Follow on Spotify
📰 Read on Substack
🐦 Follow on X

David Betz is Professor of War in the Department of War Studies at King's College London where he heads the MA War Studies programme. He is also a Senior Fellow of the Foreign Policy Research Institute. Prof. Betz's most recent book, The Guarded Age: Fortification in the 21st Century, is published by Polity.

In this episode, David and I think out loud about the role of political institutions in civil conflict, the impact of demographics on politics & how the election of Zohran Mamdani for Mayor of New York City and continued election of Sadiq Khan for the Mayor of London are instructive about the future of Anglophone countries, whether the white British are displaying an anger and spiritedness following suppression and dismissal of their national identity, what Britain looks and feels like if it descends into inter-tribal civil conflict, how the elites have betrayed the British people, why Britain’s youth are discontented, the rival visions and consequences for Britain’s future, and what David has changed his mind on and much, much more.

• Follow David on X
• Buy David's book here

About Thinking Class:
Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.

Hosted by John Gillam, the show features serious conversations with historians, academics, and independent thinkers.

Thinking Class is concerned with discovering long-term patterns over headlines and hot-takes. Expect historically-grounded analysis on matters of national character, institutions, demography, belief, and political legitimacy.

New episodes every week.

▶️ Subscribe on YouTube
🎧 Follow on Spotify
📰 Read on Substack
🐦 Follow on X

Nina Power is a philosopher, writer, and author of books including What Do Men Want?: Masculinity and Its Discontents. Nina runs philosophy courses with Verdurin and is also the author of the Substack Nina Power and the host of the podcast The Lack.

In this episode, Nina and I think out loud about whether the end of liberalism is real, whether post-liberalism is a dead end, why lots of English people keep invoking Tolkien and the scouring of the Shire, whether there's an England left to be saved, what a restoration of Britain would like beyond deportations, the re-Christianising of Britain, the influence of the elites on how the masses think, why Britain needs to be clear and confident about its heritage in the face of challenges from foreign cultures and religions, how far the Overton Window on acceptable political discourse will shift, why societal collapse would see the death of ideology and the rise of violent factionalism, why therapy will only take you so far and much, much more.

• Follow Nina on X
• Subscribe to Nina on Substack
• Buy Nina's book here

About Thinking Class:
Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.

Hosted by John Gillam, the show features serious conversations with historians, academics, and independent thinkers.

Thinking Class is concerned with discovering long-term patterns over headlines and hot-takes. Expect historically-grounded analysis on matters of national character, institutions, demography, belief, and political legitimacy.

New episodes every week.

▶️ Subscribe on YouTube
🎧 Follow on Spotify
📰 Read on Substack
🐦 Follow on X

Philip Cunliffe is Associate Professor of International Relations at the UCL, where he researches and teaches on the topics of international order, multinational military intervention, and conflict management. He has 20 years of academic experience, having previously worked as a Senior Lecturer at the University of Kent and a Temporary Lecturer at the UK’s Joint Services Command and Staff College. He obtained his PhD in War Studies from King’s College London. He has also worked as a contributor to the Economist Intelligence Unit.

He is a prolific author and editor, having published eight books and numerous academic articles and chapters on many aspects of international politics and security. His recent books include Taking Control: Sovereignty And Democracy After Brexit (2022), authored with George Hoare, Lee Jones, and Peter Ramsay. Philip is the author of The National Interest (2025).

As globalisation tightens and geopolitics returns, “national interest” stops being a slogan and becomes a necessity. Philip Cunliffe argues that Britain must relearn statecraft—what it is, how it’s justified, and how it can command loyalty in a changed demographic and moral landscape.

In this conversation:

• What “national interest” means (and what it isn’t)
• How Britain’s political class became post-national
• Sovereignty, democracy, and the limits of liberal categories
• Demographic change and political legitimacy
• Can institutions forge shared loyalty—or only manage pluralism?

Where to find Philip Cunliffe's work:

• Follow and subscribe to Philip on Substack
• Follow Philip on X/Twitter
• Buy Philip's latest book here: The National Interest: Politics After Globalisation
• Discover Philip's other books on Amazon

About Thinking Class:
Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.

Hosted by John Gillam, the show features serious conversations with historians, academics, and independent thinkers.

Thinking Class is concerned with discovering long-term patterns over headlines and hot-takes. Expect historically-grounded analysis on matters of national character, institutions, demography, belief, and political legitimacy.

New episodes every week.

▶️ Subscribe on YouTube
🎧 Follow on Spotify
📰 Read on Substack
🐦 Follow on X