Thinking LSAT

Is ChatGPT coming for lawyers’ jobs? On this week’s episode, Nathan and Ben speculate on how AI chatbots will affect the legal industry. They imagine profound changes to the ways that lawyers work, and they advise future law students to familiarize themselves with this new and vital tool. Later, the guys warn undergrads against studying for the LSAT while in school, discuss the pitfalls of highlighting in Reading Comprehension, and hawk Demon swag.

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0:38 - ChatGPT - Listener Amy wonders how chatbots like ChatGPT will affect the legal profession. Ben and Nathan believe that AI may take over many rote tasks, like document review, but that it will never completely replace human lawyers.

19:38 - Getting to 175 - Demon student Daniel scored 170 on the June LSAT after taking only two practice tests. Now he has his sights set on a 175 or higher. Nathan and Ben think Daniel can reach his goal if he’s willing to put in the work and take the test multiple times.

23:57 - Studying While in Undergrad - The guys warn listeners Cassidy and Jack not to let the LSAT distract them from getting straight A’s.

27:54 - Highlighting on RC - Listener Caleb shares his thoughts on the highlighter tool for Reading Comprehension passages. Ben and Nathan maintain that the highlighter is a distraction for most students.

39:46 - Comparing Full Rides - Nathan and Ben evaluate listener Nick’s full-ride scholarship offers from Drexel and the University of Missouri. Should better job prospects at one school outweigh a lower cost of living at the other? The guys advise Nick not to let a relatively small amount of money sway his decision.

45:35 - Regional Law Schools - Demon student Conor asks about the value of attending a prestigious out-of-state school as opposed to a lower-ranked regional school. Ben and Nathan think that it depends on what those schools will cost. They double down on their advice to apply broadly.

50:26 - Fulbright Disclosure? - Demon student and law school applicant A just found out that they’re a semi-finalist for a Fulbright award. Should they disclose this to law schools? Nathan and Ben debate the pros and cons of sharing this conflict before it’s a sure thing.

56:49 - Tax Law - Listener “Tax Guy” wants to add a JD to his CPA designation. Ben and Nathan discuss the lucrative field of tax law.

1:00:39 - Study Schedule - Demon student Nate asks how to split his time between drilling, timed sections, and practice tests. The guys recommend their One-Hour LSAT study schedule.

1:05:40 - Merch - Nathan and Ben poke around the new UC Law San Francisco merch store and invite listeners to pick up LSAT Demon swag.

Nearly 35,000 people have already applied to law school this cycle,  according to data from LSAC. And many top law schools have already begun  handing out scholarships. On today’s pod, Ben and Nathan examine the  current application data and advise would-be late applicants to wait  until next year. Later, the guys discuss how to use scholarship offers  in negotiations with other law schools. They consider the impact of  affirmative-action legislation on the “URM bump.” And they read  admissions updates from LSAT Demon students.

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0:27 - New Test Dates for 2023–2024 - Ben and Nathan examine the new test dates for the upcoming LSAT cycle.

6:08 - Your Most Valuable Asset - Ben shares some wisdom from Sam Harris: your most valuable asset isn’t your time, it’s your attention.

16:07 - Application Data - The guys analyze LSAC’s current application volume statistics.

25:54 - Scholarship Negotiations - An anonymous listener asks how to leverage a scholarship offer from Michigan in their negotiations with other schools.

33:32 - Denied the Bar Because of Debt? - Listener Carol shares a Forbes article about someone who was denied admission to her state bar—despite passing the bar exam—in part because of her massive student debt.

40:46 - URM Bump - Listener Hodari wonders whether Proposition 209, which prohibits affirmative action in California public schools, means that underrepresented minorities receive less of a “bump” when applying to California law schools. Nathan and Ben review data on LSD.law that suggest otherwise.

50:12 - Improving LSAT Demon - A student suggests a way to improve written explanations in the Demon.

54:12 - Preparing for Law School - Listener Sam asks how to prepare during the summer before law school. The guys recommend The Law School Toolbox as well as a few books.

1:03:28 - Waiting to Apply - Listener Aloe isn’t sure whether retaking the LSAT and waiting to apply next cycle will improve their admissions chances. Ben and Nathan see nothing but upside in that plan.

1:05:27 - Admissions Updates - Several LSAT Demon students share their admissions and scholarship success stories.

1:07:37 - Not Going to Law School - Demon student Krista has decided not to attend law school. Instead, she’s embraced her current career and found peace in her life as it is. Krista thanks the Demon team for helping her reach her decision.

A wall stands between you and law school. Would you rather swing at it with a hammer or a wrecking ball? On this week’s podcast, Ben and Nathan remind listeners that the LSAT is by far your most powerful tool for breaking into law school. The guys also debate the existence of “trap” answer choices on the LSAT, consider a New York Times article’s tips for improving concentration, and critique Dean Faigman’s long-winded announcement that UC Law San Francisco will no longer provide data for the US News rankings.

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0:45 - “Trap” Answers - Listener Sean self-diagnoses a hyperawareness of “trap” answer choices and a tendency to overthink Logical Reasoning questions. Nathan and Ben dispel the notion of trap answers and urge Sean to attack the test with confidence.

9:58 - The LSAT Is a Wrecking Ball - Listener Laura wonders whether her years of work experience will make her a more compelling law school candidate. Ben and Nathan remind Laura and other listeners that soft factors are like tiny hammers compared to the wrecking ball that is the LSAT.

20:00 - LSAT Writing - Nathan and Ben speculate on the purpose of the LSAT Writing section and advise listeners on how to prepare.

26:33 - Mid-Cycle Update - With multiple T14 acceptances and a full-ride offer in hand, an anonymous listener reaps the rewards of applying early and broadly.

29:20 - Undergraduate Major Versus GPA - Listener Noah asks whether his difficult major will make him more competitive for admission to elite law schools. Ben and Nathan think it might, but they maintain that GPA is more important.

33:50 - LSAT Demon Fee-Waiver Discount - The guys share information about LSAT Demon’s fee-waiver discount. Recipients of LSAC’s fee waiver can get four months of Demon Basic for $30—or 20% off any plan indefinitely. Find out more at lsatdemon.com/plans.

35:27 - Focus Like It’s 1990 - Nathan and Ben discuss a recent New York Times article on how to improve your focus by taking intentional tech breaks. Should you dedicate time to reading physical books every day? Ben is sympathetic to the suggestion. Nathan thinks electronic screens are fine as long as you’re reading something you enjoy.

49:12 - UC Law San Francisco - The guys critique a screed from Dean Faigman of UC Law SF about why the T51 school will no longer participate in the US News rankings survey.

US News & World Report is changing the way it ranks law schools. A recent letter to law school deans outlines updates to the ranking methodology, including reduced emphasis on reputational surveys. On today’s pod, Ben and Nathan predict the impact that these changes may have on the rankings and on the law school scholarship game. Later, the guys weigh the importance of GPA versus school reputation on law school applications, recommend strategies for networking with lawyers, and warn a new LSAT student not to aim too high too soon.

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0:59 - US News Ranking Methodology - Listener Kris shares information about upcoming changes to US News’s ranking methodology. The biggest change: US News will give less weight to reputational surveys, which previously accounted for 40% of a law school’s assessment.

19:26 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener Ana passes along some sage advice: “you get good at what you practice.” Nathan and Ben see this philosophy as crucial to LSAT prep—practice incorrectly and you’ll just reinforce an approach that makes you worse at the test. Listener Alex then describes the “rule of thirds” for judging your progress toward a challenging goal.

32:14 - GPA vs. School Reputation - An anonymous listener asks whether attending an “easy A” religious college will be held against them on their law school applications. Ben and Nathan maintain that an applicant’s GPA matters more than the school they attended.

43:04 - Networking with Lawyers - Listener Sidney is interested in learning what it’s like to work as a family lawyer. Nathan and Ben recommend some networking strategies.

54:32 - More Gladwell Shade - TLP producer Erik recommends an episode of the podcast If Books Could Kill that eviscerates Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers.

57:32 - One Step at a Time - An anonymous student just began studying and aims to score 173. Ben and Nathan worry that this goal might be counterproductive: aiming too high too soon can tempt students to sacrifice accuracy for speed.

1:04:00 - Canadian Law Schools - Demon student G requests an episode focused on Canadian law schools. The guys recommend that G check out these episodes of LSAT Demon Daily:

1:06:40 - ABA 509 Confusion - Nathan and Ben share an anonymous listener’s frustration over confusing ABA 509 reports. These reports are imperfect, but they’re still an applicant’s best source of information regarding law school scholarships.

Students are often tempted to take the official LSAT before they’re ready or to apply to law school late in the cycle “just to see what happens.” On this week’s episode, Ben and Nathan explain why such plans are dangerous. They advise listeners to take a different approach: one that makes it impossible to settle for less than your best. Also on the pod, the guys discuss law schools with abysmal bar passage rates, compare “evidence” and “premises” in Logical Reasoning arguments, and offer advice on conditional scholarships.

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0:25 - 3+3 Program - Listener Abe considers a course of study that consists of a three-year undergraduate degree followed by a three-year JD at the same university. Ben and Nathan discourage this idea because it could limit Abe’s opportunities to attend a better law school for free.

9:10 - Failing Law Schools - Three law schools have recently failed to meet the ABA’s minimum bar passage rate. Nathan and Ben suspect that the ABA is unlikely to take any meaningful action against these schools.

16:56 - Withdrawing from the January LSAT - Ben and Nathan assure Demon student Nate that it’s not too late to withdraw from the January LSAT. Withdrawals don’t appear on your record, so law schools won’t know.

18:05 - Score Conversion - The guys walk student Abby through the process of merging individual sections to get a full test score in the Demon. Convert your raw score from any official PrepTest to an LSAT score at lsatdemon.com/converter.

20:40 - Make Failure Impossible - An anonymous listener plans to take the January LSAT, despite not feeling ready, and then apply to law school in February just to see what happens. Nathan and Ben think this plan is a recipe for failure. You should plan to act in a way that makes failure impossible.

26:44 - “Evidence” vs. “Premise” - Ben and Nathan respond to listener Alex’s question about whether “evidence” and “premise” mean the same thing in LSAT Logical Reasoning. (They do.) The guys also discuss what it means for a conclusion to be implicit, how the LSAT rewards accuracy over speed, and why they no longer trust Malcolm Gladwell.

41:20 - LSAC PLUS - An anonymous listener describes their experience with the LSAC PLUS program at Alabama Law. They received some questionable counseling on how to afford law school. Nathan and Ben remind listeners that most advice about financing your education is designed to convince you that it’s okay to take on massive debt.

47:37 - Conditional Scholarships - Ben and Nathan break down conditional scholarships: what they are, whether you should accept one, and what to do if a law school reduces or eliminates your scholarship.

Law school prices aren’t real. Scholarship data from ABA 509 reports show that most students don’t pay anything close to sticker price. Are law schools due for a tuition reset? On this week’s pod, the guys discuss a New York Times article about universities that are slashing tuition to better reflect the real cost of college. They consider whether law schools might follow suit. Also on the show, the guys hear from a former student who’s bound for Yale, encourage a new listener to withdraw their applications, and discuss how law schools may view an applicant who reapplies after a rejection.

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6:09 - In at Yale - Demon student Dez will attend Yale Law School next year, after scoring 169 on the LSAT. Well done, Dez!

9:33 - Overcoming Score Plateaus - Nathan previews his upcoming live class on whether score plateaus are real and how to overcome them. Register here—all you need is a Demon Free account.

11:59 - Medical Records for Accommodations - An anonymous student worries that if they apply for accommodations on the LSAT, law schools may see the medical records that they submit to LSAC. Ben and Nathan doubt that such information is shared with schools, but they recommend contacting LSAC to find out for sure.

15:59 - Tuition Cuts - The guys review a New York Times article about a New Hampshire college that’s cutting its tuition by 62 percent. Similar “tuition resets” enacted by other private colleges shed light on how wildly inflated their prices were to begin with.

23:12 - Reapplications - Ben and Nathan examine screenshots from a law school application courtesy of Demon team member Brittany. One of the questions asks whether you’ve applied previously. Reapplications aren’t a big deal, but the guys explain why you should still plan to apply only once.

33:22 - Withdraw Your Applications - Listener Taylor applied to 20 schools this November with a score of 159. But Taylor believes they can score higher. Nathan and Ben encourage Taylor to withdraw their applications and to focus on improving their LSAT.

48:53 - The Tests Are All the Same - The internet loves to speculate about which test dates might give test takers an advantage. Don’t listen to the internet. Ben and Nathan urge you to let your practice test scores determine when to register for the official test.

1:03:36 - LSAT Penance - Listener Joseph wonders if he should take more classes at a local college to increase his GPA. The guys tell Joseph not to bother. Any grades earned post-graduation won’t count toward his LSAC-calculated GPA. Nathan and Ben reiterate why the LSAT is such an important opportunity to make up for a lackluster GPA.

Two mice fell into a bucket of cream. One gave up quickly and drowned. The other refused to quit and struggled for so long that it churned the cream to butter and crawled out. On today’s episode, Ben and Nathan answer an anonymous listener’s question: Which mouse should you be? If you’re drowning in the LSAT, how long should you struggle before calling it quits? The guys discuss why people who are meant to be lawyers will always tough it out—and why it’s okay if you’re not one of those people. Later on the show, they critique UVA’s statement about the U.S. News rankings, explain practice-test score ranges, and evaluate a tip for finding the main point in Reading Comprehension.

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3:20 - Which Mouse Should You Be? - An anonymous listener calls upon a parable about drowning mice to ask how relentlessly they should pursue law school. LSAT study requires grit and determination. The struggle may be worth it—but only if law school is right for you. Ben and Nathan discuss when to double down on your efforts and when to walk away.

25:02 - UVA and U.S. News - Listener Kris shares an open letter from UVA Law dean, Risa Goluboff, on the school’s decision not to provide data for the U.S. News rankings. Dean G claims that the rankings fail to capture what UVA values most. Nathan and Ben point out that UVA displays their LSAT and GPA medians front and center for prospective students. The guys assure listeners that law school rankings and the LSAT aren’t going away anytime soon.

49:25 - Master of Legal Studies - An anonymous listener feels that they’ve reached their limit on the LSAT. Would padding their résumé with a Master of Legal Studies degree help their law school applications? Ben and Nathan recommend cutting negative self-talk and focusing on the LSAT.

54:15 - How to Determine Your Score Range - Nathan and Ben explain how to determine your score range by averaging practice test scores. They also discuss why it doesn’t matter whether you take a full-length test or break it up into individual sections.

1:00:40 - Pearls vs. Turds - TLP producer Erik shares a lecture on writing and explains how its lessons help him find the main point in LSAT Reading Comprehension passages.

Fears and false narratives often destroy our productivity. Only when we let go of such counterproductive thoughts can we achieve our full potential. Today on the pod, Ben and Nathan counsel listeners whose misconceptions about law school admissions have distracted them from what’s truly important. They respond to a father’s misguided advice about admissions, address fears about rising medians, and analyze “customized” scholarships.

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8:27 - Penn State Merger - Penn State University Park and Penn State Dickinson have announced their merger into a single law school. Will two good law schools combine to make one excellent one? Ben and Nathan weigh in.

17:05 - Switch to the Demon? - Should listener Stefan enroll in another prep company’s “170+ guarantee” course, or should he switch to LSAT Demon? Nathan and Ben are biased, but that doesn’t make them wrong—Stefan will learn far more from the Demon.

22:04 - When Should I Subscribe? - Listener Ryan is a college student and can’t afford to spend much on LSAT prep. He asks Ben and Nathan for advice on timing his subscription. The guys urge Ryan to focus on school. He should begin his LSAT prep when his grades are right—and maybe after he finds a better-paying job.

27:37 - Misguided Advice from Dad - Listener Priscila knows she can beat her 160 LSAT score if she keeps studying. But her father wants her to apply to law school right now. Nathan and Ben counsel Priscila to stay the course and keep working to improve her score. Priscila should see herself as a potential asset to law schools and expect appropriate scholarship offers.

34:34 - Customized Scholarships - LSAT Demon team member Brittany shares an email from WashU about their “customized” scholarships, which cover special types of aid like child care and conference funding. Ben and Nathan respect WashU’s gamesmanship, but these awards don’t measure up to real merit scholarships.

41:55 - Fear of Rising Medians - Listener Larry doesn’t want to apply this cycle, but he worries that law schools’ median LSAT scores might go up next year. Nathan and Ben explain why this fear is overblown. They advise Larry that taking an extra year might do wonders for his career.

Ben and Nathan review a law school’s streamlined application process that doesn’t require a personal statement or letters of recommendation. The evidence is clear: some law schools really care only about your LSAT and GPA. Later on, the guys reassure an applicant that a great LSAT score overshadows a lackluster résumé. They also consider whether ABA 509 data misrepresent scholarship offers and discuss a listener’s mathematical analysis of guessing on the LSAT.

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5:22 - WashU Low-Income Scholarships - WashU Law announced full-tuition scholarships for low-income students, but questions remain about who will actually qualify.

16:57 - No Personal Statement, No Problem - The University of Alabama recently invited listener Abhi to apply via a “streamlined” application that doesn’t require a personal statement or letters of recommendation.

30:24 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener G submits a Pearls vs. Turds candidate adopted from their work as a police officer: “Drive as slowly as possible and as fast as necessary.”

36:34 - Scholarships for a Splitter - Demon student Olivia wonders whether her low GPA means she’ll need to score 175 on the LSAT to attract merit scholarship offers. Ben and Nathan use the LSAT Demon Scholarship Estimator to investigate Olivia’s chances.

45:55 - The LSAT Is What Really Matters - Demon student Aly worries that law schools will be unimpressed with her extracurriculars and work experience. Nathan and Ben implore Aly not to chase résumé padders at the expense of study.

59:28 - Character and Fitness - An anonymous listener worries that their separation from the Navy might be flagged as a Character and Fitness issue. Ben and Nathan suspect that it’s not a big deal but recommend that Anonymous ask their state bar.

1:03:58 - Start with Free - Listener Kiana scored 131 on her diagnostic and now feels lost. The guys warn Kiana of the long road ahead and recommend that she begin with LSAT Demon Free before committing more time and money to LSAT prep.

1:10:55 - Misleading Scholarship Data? - Anonymous asks whether scholarships reported on ABA 509 reports misrepresent those actually offered by law schools. Nathan and Ben discuss this possibility and double down on their advice to apply broadly.

1:19:42 - Chasing a Perfect Score - International applicant Phuong wonders whether it’s feasible to aim for a perfect score in Logical Reasoning. Ben and Nathan remind Phuong that their goal should be -0 on one question at a time, not -0 on the section.

1:24:21 - Lucky 177 - Listener Karl shares his analysis of the likelihood of scoring 177 given varying degrees of random guessing. As suspected, random chance accounts for a miniscule portion of your LSAT score. Luck won’t get your score into the 170s.

Ben interviews Angela Vorpahl, a consultant who guides law students through their 1L year. Angela shares the top five mistakes students make on law school final exams. But first, Nathan and Ben kick off this week’s episode with a brief discussion of the recent news surrounding the U.S. News rankings and the ABA’s decision to end the testing requirement for law school applications. Current applicants can rest assured that law schools will continue to value the LSAT and offer merit scholarships to attract high-scoring applicants.

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4:01 - Rankings and ABA News - Nathan and Ben discuss the implications of top law schools withdrawing from the U.S. News rankings and the ABA’s decision to remove the standardized test requirement for law school applicants. For now, these changes are unlikely to affect law school admissions in any meaningful way.

13:58 - Angela Vorpahl - Angela Vorpahl helps law students take control of their 1L grades through her consulting business and YouTube channel. Angela joins Ben to discuss why students need actionable study plans. She also shares the top five mistakes that students make on final exams.

32:38 - Mistake #1: Not Creating a Study Plan - Angela explains why you shouldn’t simply study for your first exam first. Instead, create a schedule that spaces out your study in the buildup to exam week.

41:30 - Mistake #2: Repeating the Facts of the Case - On law school exams, you don’t get points for simply repeating the facts of the case. Instead, you should use the facts in the context of your arguments about the relevant issues.

45:21 - Mistake #3: Ignoring Format - Make an effort to format your arguments so the professor can more easily award you points for them. In some cases, this might mean numbering your arguments.

52:12 - Mistake #4: Not Talking to Your Professors - Angela recommends talking to your professors in person to ask about their formatting preferences for their final exams. Professors are also invaluable resources for finding jobs and securing letters of recommendation.

59:20 - Mistake #5: Trying to Get the Answers “Right” - On law school exams, you get points by making arguments and counterarguments for each issue you spot. You aren’t expected to—and shouldn’t try to—get the question “right.” Angela discusses why “thinking like a lawyer” helps avoid blind spots that might sabotage your exam.

1:05:41 - Final Advice - Angela advises you to think of law school as a step toward the life you want to build. After all, you attend law school to become a lawyer, not a law student.