Thinking LSAT

00:03:38 – The performance feedback came back for the digital LSAT pilot test—and everyone’s pretty disappointed.

00:06:40 – Emily wants to know if a LSAT prep course will improve her score that much, or is it worth it given her tight budget. Should she should continue with the LSAT Trainer and books she’s been working with instead? (The answer is: It’s totally worth it to take a prep course.) The guys go on to discuss the merits of a prep course, and the importance of choosing the right teacher, too.

00:15:41 – Emily’s email continues with admissions questions. She asks about her college GPA of 3.1 and her current paralegal experience—how can she stand out from the masses? Nate and Ben discuss the best way to stand out (your LSAT score!) and also share their thoughts on how to frame an addendum or personal statement when discussing potentially sensitive topics such as PTSD and mental illness.

00:24:43 – Email 2—Jack asks whether it’s better to self-study, take a class, or get a private tutor with a strong starting score (like in the 160s) out of the gate. The guys weigh in on the benefits of a class and private tutoring as well as give advice on whether to also tackle the GRE when you’re a high scorer.

00:32:42 – Jack goes on to ask about what he should do in his gap year between graduation and law school. The guys make recommendations.

00:34:48 – Email 3—Sharon says she (or he?) has been taking Nate’s and Ben’s advice about doing single sections followed by a “deep review,” and that it has improved her accuracy a great deal. She wants to know if and how she can improve even more. Will it help to do problems over and over as a rote exercise? For Nate, not really. For Ben? It might help a bit, yes.

00:42:34 – Email 4—Ryan wants to know if he should be emulating the way the The PowerScore LSAT Logic Games Bible sets up the games when his intuition sometimes leads him to other setups (and outcomes). The guys talk logic games strategy and how to approach the games with some necessary improvisation.

00:51:14 – Email 5—Eric writes in to ask about difficulties he has with Strategy Of Argumentation questions. He often struggles with finding the correct one of 3-4 potentially correct answers. Ben discusses how to approach these types of questions, and how to find and dismantle incorrect answers. The guys talk about the importance of incompleteness vs. inaccuracy in both LSAT answers and your career as a lawyer.

01:05:11 – Email 6—LLM (anonymous) is a foreign lawyer aspiring to work in a big NY law firm. He or she writes in to ask the guys about the best path toward achieving that goal. With a “mediocre” LSAT score, LLM sees several options for moving forward. The guys offer their advice, and discuss the benefits of re-taking the LSAT to give LLM more options.

01:20:31 – Email 7—Zack writes in about his undergrad GPA. While his recent LSAT score is above 160, his LSAC GPA will register as 3.3-3.4 due to a rough semester in school. Nate and Ben talk about how the LSAC index plays a role in acceptance to law school, how LSAC looks at classes you’ve retaken (and gotten better grades in), and how to talk about grades in your addendum vs. your personal statement. Pro tip: don’t talk about grades in your personal statement.

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With the June LSAT behind us, we discuss early reports from the test and dig into listener emails. Sorry for Nathan’s bad audio—he’s 1) on the road and 2) bad at technology.

00:01:03 – Russian(?) donation discussion

00:02:10 – News about the calendar changing—Six tests each year!

00:08:08 – John from Canada and a noisy courtroom LSAT experience (bulletproof coffee aside)

00:10:25 – Email 2 (anon) – 3 LR sections, and one threw me off. Should I keep studying? (probably)

00:13:08 – Some folks back out of the LSAT multiple times. Let’s not do that. Instead, get fully prepped. Once you take, go ahead and re-take until you get a score that reflects your abilities

00:15:46 – Email 3 (anon) – someone fainted in section 2, a cautionary/interesting tale

00:18:04 – Email 4 – Kevin gives an update on the test and gives a lot of specifics on the test (which we can’t talk about). LR was avg, RC was so hard, and games were child’s play with time to spare—this experience varies person to person.

00:21:21 – Email 5 from Calvin – sharing story about the June LSAT: proctors showed up late

00:22:22 – Lots of reports that the games were really easy. Are they trying to balance out the test, or conspiring to drive more law school applications?

00:26:42 – Email 6 – Rachel just completed all episodes of the podcast, and showers the guys with praise

00:30:00 – Email 8 1/3 – Ryan – wanting to know if law schools look at double major GPAs as cumulative or individual.

00:35:43 – Email 8 2/3 – Will passing the patent bar help Ryan during the admissions process?

00:37:01 – Email 8 3/3 – Is a 170+ realistic when Ryan struggles so much during RC? Some RC section tips—take it slower, skip a passage, contemplate more during the test—the answers are not fuzzy.

00:44:17 – Email 9 (anonymous) 3.0 scholarship renewals—the difference between high school and college GPAs vs law school GPA. The 3.0 renewal can be seen as a moneymaking technique by law schools that bet on students losing scholarships after year 1 or 2. Is it worth it to proceed after losing the scholarship (considering a lucrative opportunity to work in the family practice awaits)? —It’s not a bad idea to drop out after 1L if you’re not killing it.

01:05:12 – Doubling down on Wonder Woman recommendation

01:07:28 – Email 10 (anonymous)—using a highlighter to draw a games board, so if you need to erase your pencil markings, the board stays, and you won’t need to re-draw. Pearl of wisdom, or turd of wisdom?

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Start getting better at the LSAT right now, from wherever you may be. Check out Ben’s 100-Hour Online LSAT Course or Nathan’s Fox LSAT On Demand. Before pulling the trigger, check out Ben’s free LSAT lesson or Nathan’s has a free trial LSAT course.

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00:02:05 – The biggest message is: You’ve either put in the work or not. “The hay is in the barn.”

00:03:36 – Don’t get caught up in “small sample” glitches—it’s more about the last 5 PTs

00:06:40 – Good lawyers never feel prepared.

00:08:33 – Go see Wonder Woman (or any movie) the night before!

00:12:05 – Don’t go to bed early the night before, and other sleeping tips.

00:16:23 – Shut it down. No more studying. Just get in a happy focused place.

00:17:06 – Exercise, walking, etc. It’s important!

00:19:06 – You will have a bell curve of potential outcomes. Prep moves the curve forward. Try to hit the middle or above of your personal bell curve—be the best “you’ you can be.

00:23:43 – This is PrepTest 81.

00:24:53 – You can have your best performance the day of the test (it’s not true that you’ll do worse on the day of.)

00:27:54 – Don’t try to score 10 points higher than you have before.

00:31:05 – If you haven’t taken a practice test before, consider withdrawing! (You’ve either done the work, or you haven’t.)

00:32:25 – Take the entire test day for you—funny stories about wild test day antics (don’t plan a college reunion the same day…)

00:42:58 – The Day of the Test; who has the most pencils?

00:43:53 – Become an observer, not a participant. Everyone there is less prepared than you are.

00:46:38 – Funny stories about test day.

00:56:56 – At any given moment, your one and only job is to focus on the question you’re working on.

00:58:29 – When they call 5 minutes, don’t speed up. Never speed up. Just go one at a time (and other last-5-minute tips.)

01:02:42 – Anticipate and embrace bad things before you even get to the test.

01:04:48 – In poker (and golf) you have to be willing to make embarrassingly bad mistakes in order to be excellent.

01:06:34 – What are some actual bad things that can happen on the LSAT?

01:08:59 – Haters of reading comp: Your test will probably have RC for sections 1 and 2. Expect it.

01:10:43 – People complain about “bad” everything. Embrace the bad stuff—that’ll be your differentiator.

01:12:42 – What to do if you get unusual games? (They’re not as hard as you think) — plan on that!

01:14:44 – Last-minute tips for each section type: What’s your plan on each section? Bullet points for RC, logical reasoning, and logic games.

Good luck all!

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Ann Levine joins the top of the show to discuss the big news of the day, including:

00:01:20 – LSAC eliminates the “3 times in 2 years” rule

00:03:20 – What’s it going to look like when applicants take the LSAT 7 times?

00:08:33 – “People get these goal scores in their head that sound pretty”

00:14:49 – Harvard Law School junior referral program

00:16:59 – It’s still important to take the LSAT over the GRE, even though Northwestern may begin looking at GRE scores

00:25:26 – The new Above the Law law school rankings, and why they’re better than US News

After Ann says goodbye, we turn to listener mail and other assorted goodies like:

00:33:00 – MJ delights us by explaining how she was able to negotiate for a stipend in addition to her full ride

00:37:50 – Nate talks about Southwest Airlines the impossibility of asking for booze during a tarmac delay

00:42:48 – Why do some applicants get full rides?

00:44:16 – Norm, with perfect scores on his last few practice tests, offers us $1 per point correct

00:48:06 – Justin asks about Principle questions, which basically don’t exist

01:09:26 – We dissect a difficult question stem, and talk about Sufficient vs Necessary Assumption questions

01:18:13 – Annabelle asks whether a gap in her resume will be problematic when applying to law school? (No.)

01:23:20 – “As long as” – does this introduce the sufficient or necessary condition?

01:27:00 – The 160s is actually quite solid—folks shouldn’t get caught up with perfectionist tendencies when their current abilities are well above average

01:30:46 – Are older LSAT tests easier, particularly in reading comp, compared to the new ones?

Forgot our birthdays, and want to atone? Give us a rating and/or review on iTunes.

Suck at the LSAT and wish you didn’t? Try Ben’s 100-Hour Online LSAT Course or Nathan’s Fox LSAT On Demand. Ben offers a free LSAT lesson, and Nathan has a free trial LSAT course.

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00:00:24 – We kick off the show with a comedy update about a listener who showed up for the digital LSAT pilot at the wrong time.

00:01:20 – We speculate on why the June test happens in the afternoon?

00:02:23 – We express our excitement about LSAC changes after the recent Harvard Law / GRE announcement.

00:03:20 – We admit our Yale April Fool’s Day blunder. Eff you, April Fool’s Day!

00:05:30 – Big news! The LSAT no longer carries a “three attempts in any two year period” restriction.

00:08:27 – Ben talks about a quote from a movie producer he can’t remember the name of. Basically, “success forgives past sins.”

00:11:13 – Listener Hannah reports in with news from the digital LSAT.

00:16:25 – We speculate on when the digital LSAT will finally go live. Ben says June 2018, and Nathan takes the over.

00:18:02 – We discuss our current books, Nathan’s favorite place The Last Book Store, and book clubs.

00:25:08 – We talk about how cool it is when we encounter LSAT stuff in real life. Brancusi, anyone?

00:28:56 – More from the digital LSAT with listener Jacob.

00:31:14 – We discuss potential shortcomings of the digital implementation of the LSAT. Is it solving the correct problems?

00:41:14 – How not to do reading comprehension—flagging “main point,” “key evidence,” other nonsense.

00:47:50 – Next email (anonymous)

00:52:08 – Next email (not really Brad Pitt)

01:05:10 – To recap, we have four positive reports from the digital LSAT. It’s a hit!

01:07:35 – Shall we call it a show?

Hey, want to do us a ginormous favor? Give us a rating and/or review on iTunes.

Also, please don’t forget that we each have an online LSAT course. Check out Ben’s 100-Hour Online LSAT Course or Nathan’s Fox LSAT On Demand. Try before you buy! Ben offers a free LSAT lesson, and Nathan has a free trial LSAT course. If one or the other of us can’t take care of you, perhaps you just can’t be taken care of.

Got questions you’d like us to answer in a future podcast? Send us an email at [email protected] or follow us on Twitter @thinkinglsat and tweet us a question!

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Today’s show clocks in over two hours. A Thinking LSAT record? (We don’t know, because we’re too lazy to look through all the past episodes.) 

In the show open, Nathan talks about his upcoming trip to Europe. He has a one-way ticket to Brussels, Belgium right after the June 2017 LSAT, with no clue where he’s going once he’s there. If you have suggestions for what to see and do, please send them to [email protected].

Ben reads fiction! Well, it’s historical fiction based on actual events involving 19th-century attorneys, but it’s fiction nonetheless. (Shh… don’t tell him, because I don’t think he realizes.) But do check out his book recommendation: The Last Days of Night: A Novel. Maybe it will help spark your interest in IP litigation. (2:00)

How much is LSAT improvement worth? Check out this merit scholarship matrix on the Thomas Jefferson School of Law website and find out exactly. This school is offering guaranteed tuition scholarships based on a fixed LSAT/GPA matrix. Other schools aren’t so explicit, but we can infer that similar matrices probably apply at other schools. Step one: Get the best LSAT score you can. Step two: Get yourself $100,000 or more in free law school tuition. Unless you hate money or something. (6:05)

Do you know of any other schools that publish scholarship matrices like this one? Please email us: [email protected].

Whittier Law is going out of business. Sad trombone. (21:40)

Your school has a bar passage rate of 25 percent? Welcome to the world’s worst casino. (27:30)

“Brad Pitt” writes “the dudes” for tips on applying super-late in the admissions cycle, and promptly gets chastised at length. No surprise there. (29:25)

Parallel Reasoning questions: to skip, or not to skip? Nathan takes a pretty strong anti-skip stance. Ben agrees: “Go do a bunch of Parallel Reasoning questions and own them.” Yep, pretty much. They’re not that hard, once you know what you’re doing. (39:05)

“Nameless” has already been admitted to University of Chicago with a 162, but asks about retaking the LSAT in order to get a better scholarship offer. The boys speculate that a school as prestigious as Chicago might be less willing to renegotiate based on a new LSAT, but commend the effort anyway. Whatever you do, don’t swing for the fences! Play the game you actually have, not the game you wish you had. (46:55)

Jabron from the Carwash writes in again (thanks Jabron!) to ask for some clarification about accuracy targets. Do we really mean that students should shoot for “near perfection”? Yes, yes we do. (1:02)

At this point, Nathan gets tired of writing show notes. Tons of other great stuff follows, trust me!

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Got questions you’d like us to answer in a future podcast? Send us an email at [email protected] or follow us on Twitter @thinkinglsat and tweet us a question!

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Alert! Today’s show notes were written by Nathan, so don’t be surprised if you find them saltier and less amusing than Andi’s usual sweetness and light. 

Our first email comes from “George Town,” a fourth-time LSAT adventurer, on how to prep when you’ve already been at it for a year or more.(10:30)

The discussion edges into spoiler territory as we discuss the fourth logic game from PrepTest 80–the one with the buildings. Just because it’s unfamiliar doesn’t mean it’s hard! “You just slow down and THINK about what they’re talking about,” says Ben. Nathan can’t say it better himself, but that doesn’t stop him from trying. (19:20)

Ben talks about a near miss in class. He had dismissed a correct answer too quickly, but did that mean he would go on to miss the question? Hell no. He has high standards, and he wasn’t about to pick a wrong answer. “It’s like I had a safeguard, like I had two ways of getting to the answer,” says Ben. (27:35)

Ben offers a quick tip about Reading Comprehension from Justice Alito, which kicks off some scintillating discussions about everybody’s favorite LSAT section. (32:40)

Want to do us a bigass favor? Good. Give us a rating and/or review on iTunes. Please? (40:15)

“Bertha” checks in with an idea she read about doing 30-minute sections instead of 35, to which Ben and Nathan both offer a hard “no.” She also asks about taking the LSAT in stressful and/or loud places. Again, the guys say no. There’s lots of bad advice out there, y’all! Be careful who you trust; CRBS is everywhere. Next we talk about caffeine, chocolate brownies, bacon, and the LSAT. (42:05)

Finally, Jay Fleischmann Esq. joins the show to talk about student debt, an exploding area of law. Jay practices consumer relief law in Pasadena at Shaev & Fleischman, LLP. He hosts The Student Loan Show (the podcast about student loans) and trains lawyers about this growing practice area via his Student Loan Law Workshop(“Where Smart Lawyers Learn About Student Loan Law”). (1:00:55)

Hey, just a reminder: If you’re looking for an online LSAT prep course, we’ve got you covered. Check out Ben’s 100-Hour Online LSAT Course or Nathan’s Fox LSAT On Demand. Nathan has a free trial LSAT course, where you can see if his teaching style works for you. Ben also offers his own free LSAT lesson.

Got questions you’d like us to answer in a future podcast? Send us an email at [email protected] or follow us on Twitter @thinkinglsat and tweet us a question!

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Looking for an LSAT prep course? Consider Ben's 100-Hour Online LSAT course or Nathan's Fox LSAT On Demand Class. Also, try Fox LSAT's free trial course or check out Ben's free lesson. 

Like many of you, Mark emails the show to let us know he will be taking the digital LSAT in May. He also confirms that LSAC will allow scratch paper during the test. Good luck to Mark and all of the rest of you guinea pigs. Let us know how it goes! (4:45)

While attempting to register for the June LSAT, students are finding their nearest test centers are full. Ben reports that there are no openings in the D.C. area so students are traveling to Philadelphia for the test. Nathan suggests people instead get on a waitlist and then call the LSAC to see about opening more centers in their area. Prepare yourself as Ben shares a nightmarish tale of students signed up to take June test at Georgetown. (8:20)

Scrooge was thinking about taking the June LSAT, but restructuring at work, family obligations, and a busy day-to-day have left him with little time and energy for studying, so now he’s thinking about waiting until September.  The prep he has managed has focused on reading test theory and doing untimed practice tests. Nathan calls into question Scrooge’s excuses for not studying and advises/demands that he start timing all practice tests. Ben discusses the idea of stretch goals and wonders whether registering in June will be more beneficial to Scrooge after all. (15:38)

Anthony asks for clarification about something said in Nathan’s interview with Chantal Renta (Episode 86), specifically pertaining to loan forgiveness and taxes. Chantal responds to Anthony and shares depressing articles from NPR and the New York Times about what the Department of Education is doing to cut down on these “forgiven” loans. (47:30)

LOL, a 34-year-old professional speech writer in Beijing, is feeling pressure from her family to have a baby instead of pursuing her dream of becoming a lawyer. She poses questions about what LSAT score will get her into a T14 school and how long it will take for her to achieve that number. The guys discuss her issues and why some people might never reach an elite LSAT score, no matter how much prep they do. (52:03)

PDUMRN:) is an LSAT instructor with a 179 and a 3.78 GPA from a top liberal arts college. Although he doesn’t want to actually practice law, he is considering getting a JD to give him a leg up in other careers that he is interested in. He asks which top-tier schools, if any, would give him a full merit-based scholarship. Nathan and Ben list some programs that he can look into and encourage him to apply more broadly so he could use those offers to negotiate better packages from higher-ranked schools. (1:04:46)

We continue Logical Reasoning Section 3 of the June 2007 LSAT with Question 23, a Flaw question that you can solve by looking for two specific things. To play at home, just download the free test; work through Section 3, Question 23; listen in as we discuss the solution. (1:11:45)

Got questions you want us to answer in a future podcast? Send us an email at [email protected] or follow us @thinkinglsat and tweet us a question!

Take a listen and let us know what you think.

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Ben recommends a book that he’s been enjoying: What Doesn’t Kill Us: How Freezing Water, Extreme Altitude and Environmental Conditioning Will Renew Our Lost Evolutionary Strength. Ben’s started taking cold showers, but Nathan remains unconvinced (and warm). (0:17)

Looking for an LSAT prep course? Consider Ben’s 100-Hour Online LSAT Course or Nathan’s Fox LSAT On Demand class. Learn in-person, over skype, or online from the guys you already enjoy listening to! (4:28)

Nathan shares some (pretty unsurprising) news out of Yale Law School this week. Following Harvard’s recent announcement that they would be accepting GRE scores from law school applicants, Yale proclaims they will likewise accept scores from the GRE. What’s next—Stanford?!? Probably. (8:48)

The LSAC is seeking participants for their Digital LSAT Pilot Test on May 20. The test will be tablet-based and is taking place at 20 sites throughout the United States. While no official score will be reported, this could be a good chance to practice for the real thing. Benefits to the 1,000 chosen guinea pigs include a $100 gift card, analysis of their test performance, and the eternal gratitude of The Thinking LSAT Podcast (pending your full report of the pilot). The application period ends April 15 so apply ASAP. (9:55)

Emails abound on Episode 90 of the show! Hear Nathan and Ben respond to these listeners:

Desperate Sarah wonders if a great score on the June LSAT could work as a bargaining chip on the schools that have waitlisted her. (24:08)

Boston Eric improved 10 points since his diagnostic in January and asks if the guys think it’s possible for him to jump 5-10 more by June. (35:35)

Nervous Ted put off taking a diagnostic LSAT because he was worried about what a low score would mean for his future. Family support and this podcast convinced him he had to see where he was starting from. (47:58)

Impatient Jenny plans to take the June LSAT and apply to start law school this fall—like, three months after this June, fall. (Mistake.) (55:25)

Wonderful-wedding-guest Anita works as a lobbyist in the state legislature but wants to become a litigator. She is worried about her practice scores fluctuating between 160-171 and hopes the guys have tips on stabilizing her score. (1:10:53)

We continue Logical Reasoning Section 3 of the June 2007 LSAT with Question 22, a Must Be True question involving conditional reasoning and some tricky word order. To play at home, just download the free test; work through Section 3, Question 22; listen in as we discuss the solution. (1:19:25)

Got questions you want us to answer in a future podcast? Send us an email at [email protected] or follow us @thinkinglsat and tweet us a question!

Take a listen and let us know what you think.

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