This Constitution

By Savannah Eccles Johnston & Matthew BrogdonEducation Government History

This Constitution episodes

October 20, 2025Season 3, Episode 3 | The Folk Origins of Freedom: How Ordinary Americans Shaped the Declaration
Have you ever wondered where America’s revolutionary ideas really came from? Was it the genius of the Founders? What if the story of the Constitution didn’t begin in Philadelphia in 1776, but in colonial homes, small-town churches, and the stubborn belief that no one has the right to rule another?
In this episode of This Constitution, Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon trace the folk origins of American self-government. Through the voices of farmers, ministers, and everyday colonists, they uncover how the principles of liberty and equality were not imported from Europe’s philosophers but born from generations of lived experience.
From the self-written laws of the early colonies to the fiery courage of men like Captain Levi Preston, who famously said, “We always had governed ourselves, and we always meant to,” this conversation reveals that America’s Revolution was not just a political one. It was deeply personal.
If you think the Declaration of Independence was the start of freedom’s story, think again. This episode examines how the American spirit of self-rule was already alive, thriving, and waiting to be documented.
In This Episode
(00:18) Introduction to discussion topic
(00:55) Captain Levi Preston and folk origins
(02:13) Colonial self-government traditions
(04:53) 150 years of self-government
(06:14) Cultural and political ties to Britain
(07:16) Influence of American colonies on Britain
(08:58) Speculation on the empire’s future
(09:39) Radical ideas: No man has a right to rule another
(10:32) Sam Whittemore’s story and individual action
(11:26) “A man can stand up” – Johnny Tremain reference
(13:41) The principle of equality and self-government
(14:48) Folk origins and pervasiveness of the idea
(15:26) Contradictions: Slavery and self-government
(17:28) Revolutionary spread of equality
(18:10) Inherited and revolutionary aspects
(19:25) Washington’s change and sentiment revolution
(20:27) Twin dynamics: Inheritance and improvement
(22:20) Is self-government core to American identity?
(22:28) Tocqueville: Freedom and religion
(24:19) Pragmatic wisdom in the Declaration
(24:33) Recap and folk origins summary
Notable Quotes
(01:43) “What we meant in going for those redcoats was this. We always had governed ourselves and we always meant to. They didn’t mean we should.” — Captain Levi Preston
(01:57) “The folk origin of the Declaration, if you will, is to preserve the traditional way of life, which is just to govern yourself, just to be in charge of yourself.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
(05:41) “It’s tempting to think of revolution as we start off as British colonies and we gradually become American. Actually, the colonies were very distant, very separate, and very independent from Great Britain in the 17th century.” — Matthew Brogdon
(06:57) “It’s kind of like you’ve been ignored by your parents and now you’re 17 and suddenly they want to be your parents again, and now you’re ready to be independent.” — Savannah
(11:19) “No man has a right to rule another. And you actually brought this up before the podcast, this idea of a man’s right to stand up.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
(12:34) “We’re fighting so that a man can stand up.” — Matthew Brogdon quoting James Otis
(22:30) “The distinctive thing that Americans did, that no one had done in republican societies before us, was we combined the spirit of freedom and the spirit of religion.” — Matthew Brogdon
(24:40) “The idea of self-government is not new with the Declaration. You said earlier that people didn’t read the Declaration and go, oh really? That’s good to know. No, they already knew this.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
27 min
October 06, 2025Season 3, Episode 2 | The Black-Robed Regiment: The Preachers Who Fought for Independence
What if the American Revolution didn’t begin in the halls of Congress, but in the pews of colonial churches?
In this episode of This Constitution, hosts Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon uncover the spiritual and intellectual fire that helped ignite the Revolution. Before muskets were fired at Lexington and Concord, preachers across New England were already preparing their congregations for rebellion, not just politically but theologically.
From the sermons of Reverend Jonas Clark to the democratic church governance of the Puritans, and from Jonathan Mayhew’s biblical case for resistance to tyranny to Peter Muhlenberg’s dramatic call to arms, Savannah and Matthew trace how America’s revolution was born in the pulpit long before it was fought on the battlefield.
Together, they explore how this Black-Robed Regiment of clergymen bridged faith and politics, shaping the moral vocabulary of liberty that defined the nation’s founding.
In This Episode
(00:17) Introduction and overview of “The Black Robed Regiment”
(00:53) Reverend Jonas Clark and the Battle of Lexington
(04:37) Puritan origins of political liberty and separation of church and state
(07:14) How congregational church governance shaped early democracy
(10:21) Thomas Hooker, Connecticut, and the first written constitution
(17:00) Jonathan Mayhew’s sermon and the theology of rebellion
(23:19) Samuel Cook’s fearless sermon after the Boston Massacre
(27:29) Tocqueville, Frederick Douglass, and the moral force of the pulpit
(32:58) John Witherspoon and Peter Muhlenberg — faith in action
(38:06) Takeaway: The Revolution began in the pews
Notable Quotes
(00:08:44) “Democratic governance in America didn’t begin in politics. It began in the church.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
(00:24:45) “The bravery it took for Samuel Cook to stare down the loyal governor and call him a tyrant… that’s a different kind of courage.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
(00:25:09) “People say religion and politics should be kept separate. But that view ignores our founding. Religion was the spark.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
(00:20:36) “If obedience to rulers who govern on God’s behalf is obedience to God, then obedience to a tyrant would be obedience to the devil.” — Matthew Brogdon
(00:23:40) “It’s a dangerous thing when theology fuels revolution, but without it, we wouldn’t have political progress.” — Matthew Brogdon
(00:27:55) “Religion in America has always shaped politics—not through force, but through conscience.” — Matthew Brogdon
40 min
September 22, 2025Season 3, Episode 1 | 1777: The Crucible That Forged George Washington
Season 3 of This Constitution focuses on the people and events surrounding the making of the Declaration of Independence.
What if America’s Revolution had collapsed before it truly began? In this episode of This Constitution, host Savannah Eccles Johnston sits down with Dr. Kevin Weddle, retired U.S. Army colonel, military historian, and author of The Compleat Victory, to explore how George Washington survived the most dangerous year of the war.
From the daring crossing of the Delaware to the humiliating loss of Fort Ticonderoga, Washington faced both battlefield disaster and political backstabbing. Yet, in the fire of 1777, he learned to balance three roles at once: front-line commander, national commander-in-chief, and political strategist. Together, Johnston and Weddle trace how Washington’s leadership in this single year transformed him into the indispensable man of the Revolution and laid the foundation for his presidency.
In This Episode
(00:11) Introduction and guest welcome
(01:00) The army on the brink: Washington’s retreat through New Jersey
(04:10) The “Ten Crucial Days”: Trenton and Princeton victories
(08:30) Washington’s Fabian strategy and morale revival
(11:20) Saratoga campaign and the fall of Fort Ticonderoga
(15:00) Skyler, Gates, and a command crisis in the north
(20:45) Washington’s reinforcements: Arnold, Lincoln, Morgan’s riflemen
(27:30) Talent management and leadership lessons
(31:10) The Conway Cabal and Gates’ political maneuvering
(36:00) Washington’s confrontation with Conway and political savvy
(39:00) How Washington neutralized rivals and preserved authority
(40:35) Lessons of 1777 for Washington’s presidency
Notable Quotes
(05:45) “Just pulling something like that off with an army that’s falling apart—bad morale, desertions everywhere—is brilliant. It’s a tribute to Washington’s leadership.” — Kevin Weddle
(10:01) “It’s considered the ‘Ten Crucial Days’ of the American Revolution because those two victories really turned things around.” — Kevin Weddle
(28:09) “Talent management—that’s exactly what Washington was doing. He knew where the right leaders needed to be, even if it meant sending his best away.” — Kevin Weddle
(33:39) “I think this is a brilliant move on Washington’s part… he goes to Congress and says: I am commander-in-chief. Reinforce it. And they do.” — Kevin Weddle
(39:57) “By eliminating rivals and strengthening his own position, Washington emerged from 1777 not weaker, but indispensable.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
44 min
September 17, 2025Season 2, Episode 18 | America’s Greatest Invention: Collective Constitution-Making
What if America’s greatest strength wasn’t just its leaders, but the way everyday people came together to shape history? In this episode of This Constitution, host Matthew Brogdon sits down with Nicholas Cole of Oxford’s Pembroke College, creator of the Quill Project, to dig into the overlooked story of America’s founding.
Far from being the work of a single “lawgiver” like Solon or Jefferson, the Declaration of Independence and other revolutionary texts were born out of spirited collaboration. From town halls in Massachusetts to Virginia’s Fairfax Resolves, communities debated, revised, and ultimately claimed ownership over the words that would launch a nation. Cole explains how this culture of deliberation, grand juries, militias, assemblies, and conventions set America apart from revolutions elsewhere, transforming ordinary gatherings into the foundation of popular sovereignty.
Together, Brogdon and Cole trace how these practices not only produced the Declaration but also laid the groundwork for the U.S. Constitution and federal union. They explore how Jefferson’s draft drew on community voices, and how America’s deliberative spirit still shapes our civic life today.
If you’ve ever wondered what truly makes America’s founding unique, this conversation offers a fresh lens and a reminder of the power of collective decision-making.
In This Episode
(00:11) Introduction and guest welcome
(00:31) Origins of American deliberation
(02:14) Jefferson and collective authorship
(05:04) Spirit of the American Revolution
(05:51) Colonial and local deliberative traditions
(09:29) Fairfax Resolves and local assemblies
(13:01) Community sense and delay of independence
(14:33) Popular sovereignty and ratification
(15:43) Variety of deliberative bodies
(16:39) Parliamentary law and deliberative procedure
(19:26) Grand juries and public service
(22:02) Distinguishing public bodies from mobs
(24:54) Non-importation agreements and authority
(26:19) Compulsory support and revolutionary action
(28:04) American Revolution’s distinctiveness
(30:06) British and American deliberative traditions
(33:22) Comparisons to English and European precedents
(34:20) Ancient and English precedents
(35:42) Crystallization of deliberative traditions
(37:07) Federal system and popular constitution-making
(38:26) The Quill Project overview
(39:38) Quill Project’s Declaration of Independence work
(41:12) Resource collections and acknowledgments
Notable Quotes
(01:00) "Before the American Revolution, most constitutions were the product either of accident and force or the wisdom of a lawgiver. America's different. These things are written by groups of people who deliberate and worry about every word." — Nicholas Cole
(03:01) "All of those things that Jefferson takes credit for are things that he did in concert with other people. He wasn't starting with a completely blank page." — Nicholas Cole
(04:44) "The idea that human beings do their best work when they act together, that feature of American thought in the 18th century, was one of the things that really captured my interest." — Nicholas Cole
(16:54) "There was an idea that there was a proper way for groups of people to behave when they were deliberating together. This often went under the name of something like parliamentary law." — Nicholas Cole
(28:34) "Most revolutions do not look like the American Revolution in this sense. Other alternatives are definitely available." — Nicholas Cole
(38:58) "The Quill Project is an attempt to help people understand these sometimes very extended and complicated processes of deliberation. You can think of it as kind of track changes for historians." — Nicholas Cole
44 min
September 08, 2025Season 2, Episode 17 | George Washington: Merit, Power, and the Birth of Civilian Leadership
Did you know that George Washington could have become an American Caesar, but instead chose to walk away from power? Unlike Napoleon or Cromwell, he rejected dictatorship and dynasty, setting the precedent for civilian control of the military, limited executive authority, and the peaceful transfer of power.
In this episode of This Constitution, host Matthew Brogdon sits down with eminent historian Jeremy Black to trace Washington’s extraordinary balancing act. From the battlefields of the Revolution to the presidency, Washington navigated fragile institutions, fractious states, and the lure of personal power and, in doing so, set precedents that continue to define American politics.
The conversation explores Washington’s role as a “meritocratic monarch,” how he differed from figures like George III, Napoleon, and Oliver Cromwell, and why his restraint proved essential to building a constitutional republic. They discuss the challenges of commanding a multi-state army, the dangers of potential coups, his deliberate retirement, and the legacy of leadership “for country, not party.”
They also tackle a deeper question: what does Washington’s example teach us about the relationship between military power and constitutional government? His decision to submit force to law, ambition to restraint, and leadership to the service of the people remains one of the defining features of American constitutionalism.
In This Episode
(00:03) Opening and introduction
(00:56) Washington as a "meritocratic monarch"
(02:34) Contrasts with George III and Napoleon
(04:09) Washington’s challenges with Congress and state governments
(05:31) Comparison to the French Revolution and use of force
(07:01) Civilian control of the military: Historical continuity
(08:20) Presidential power and restraint
(09:37) Washington’s post-war precedent
(10:54) Use of force in domestic rebellions
(12:23) Continuity from military to executive leadership
(13:04) Constitutional practices in the Continental Army
(14:48) Managing rivalries and federalism in the army
(16:12) Geographic shifts in the Revolutionary War
(17:25) Washington’s political skills and resource allocation
(19:41) National identity and the crucible of war
(22:29) Army vs. Navy in American political culture
(23:48) Washington’s non-autocratic leadership
(24:32) Washington as American Cincinnatus
(25:56) Washington’s farewell address and peaceful transfer of power
(27:44) Conclusion and legacy
(28:08) Podcast outro and next episode teaser
Notable Quotes
(01:00) "I see George Washington as a formative figure in America and an example of the best type of what I call a meritocratic monarch." — Jeremy Black

(04:13) "Washington does this with enormous skill, not in easy circumstances." — Jeremy Black

(08:21) "One of the patterns that derives directly from Washington is that of the subordination of the military to civil authority." — Jeremy Black

(08:37) "Washington was not an American Caesar. He did not create himself as a dictator either." — Jeremy Black

(19:44) "America is born in the crucible of war, because that defines the boundaries of America." — Jeremy Black

(23:06) "The expression of liberty becomes that of serving on land in military forces." — Jeremy Black

(27:35) "I think one could say his politics were for the people, for his country, rather than for himself or his party." — Jeremy Black
29 min
August 25, 2025Season 2, Episode 16 | Parties and the Constitution: Why the Founders Feared Parties and Created Them Anyway
How did a political system founded by leaders who warned against factions end up making political parties an indispensable part of democracy? And why has the United States remained a two-party nation for nearly two centuries?
In this episode of This Constitution, host Matthew Brogdon sits down with political scientist Daniel DiSalvo to trace the fascinating constitutional and political journey of America’s party system. From Jefferson’s “party to end all parties” to Martin Van Buren’s invention of the enduring two-party model, they unpack the forces that created, shaped, and sustained the parties we know today.
The conversation explores how early mechanisms like the “King Caucus” gave way to national conventions, how parties managed (and sometimes suppressed) divisive issues like slavery, and why the two-party system has proven so resilient thanks to first-past-the-post elections, the Electoral College, and state ballot laws.
They also tackle a deeper question: how political parties and the Constitution are in constant tension. The Constitution disperses power through the separation of powers; parties try to assemble it to win and govern. That push-and-pull has defined American politics from the 1790s to the present.
In This Episode
(00:13) Introduction to Daniel DiSalvo and the study of political parties
(01:16) Founders’ skepticism toward parties and their early emergence
(04:30) State governments’ role in shaping elections
(06:03) The “King Caucus” and constitutional concerns
(09:44) Jefferson’s “party to end all parties”
(10:58) Van Buren’s case for permanent parties to avoid sectionalism
(12:16) National conventions as a political safety valve
(15:19) Tariffs, internal improvements, and keeping slavery off the agenda
(18:18) How parties suppressed abolitionist voices
(20:38) The Republican Party’s rise as the only successful third party
(24:22) Why the U.S. has a two-party system
(26:19) First-past-the-post elections and the Electoral College
(31:13) The appeal (and limits) of the two-party model
(36:00) Consensus politics in a separated-powers system
(39:32) Why parties remain essential to democratic accountability
Notable Quotes
(01:23) "Jefferson's opposition didn't last very long. You could say that maybe his statement shows that many statements in politics are in bad faith, since he still hopes to go to heaven, even though he was one of the founders of the first political party." — Dan DISalvo

(02:10) "The Constitution, which sets up all these institutions, doesn't specify a way that these offices are gonna get filled up. So how are you gonna get people to be elected to these offices?" — Dan DISalvo

(03:15) "Parties become the ligaments and the muscles that tie it together, tying citizens to the institutions set up by the Constitution." — Dan DiSalvo

(06:30) "The process for electing presidents became what was then called the King Caucus, which was what these nascent parties in Congress were." — Dan DiSalvo

(13:00) "Van Buren's idea is we're going to take away, get rid of this King caucus, and we're going to have this idea of national conventions." — Dan DiSalvo

(29:00) "The Electoral College system makes it very hard for third parties to get in." — Dan DiSalvo

(32:30) "In our system, you campaign inside your own party to win a primary election, then you campaign on what you think is good." — Dan DiSalvo
43 min
August 11, 2025Season 2, Episode 15 | Special Counsels vs. the Presidency: Who Holds the Power?
How should a democracy balance the need for independent investigations of government wrongdoing with the president’s constitutional authority over prosecutions? Where do we draw the line?
In this episode of This Constitution, hosts Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon dig into the fascinating and often murky world of special counsels. From their origins in President Grant’s efforts to distance himself from scandals, to the dramatic moments of the Watergate era and the "Saturday Night Massacre," the history of special counsels is anything but straightforward.
They break down the creation of independent counsels under the Ethics in Government Act of 1978, a powerful legal framework that was later undone by high-profile investigations like Iran-Contra and the Clinton impeachment. Fast forward to today, and the special counsel role has become a battleground for constitutional debate, raising tough questions about who holds the power to fire them and when.
Matthew makes a compelling argument for why prosecutorial power must remain politically accountable, warning against a future where legal battles spiral beyond the courts’ control. They wrap up the episode with a powerful reminder to rethink our reliance on legally ambiguous mechanisms and consider the Constitution’s built-in safeguards, like impeachment, as a much-needed check on power.
Tune in for an eye-opening dive into the constitutional tension between justice and executive authority.
In This Episode
(00:15) Topic Introduction and definition of special counsels
(01:16) Historical origins: Grant and Roosevelt
(01:57) Watergate and Nixon: The rise of controversy
(03:37) The Saturday night massacre
(06:03) Aftermath of Watergate: Impeachment and resignation
(07:14) Constitutional issues: Executive power and accountability
(09:53) The Ethics in Government Act of 1978
(11:31) Independent counsel vs. special counsel: Key differences
(12:44) Scope and jurisdiction of independent counsel
(14:35) Controversies: Iran-Contra and Whitewater
(15:05) Supreme Court and Morrison v. Olson
(17:20) Problems with removal and accountability
(20:48) Expiration of the independent counsel statute
(25:38) Return to special counsels: DOJ regulations
(26:52) The Mueller investigation and modern special counsels
(29:12) Removal and oversight of special counsels
(31:51) Unresolved constitutional questions
(33:23) Political vs. legal controls: Impeachment and accountability
(37:38) Checks and balances: Political structure vs. legal process
Notable Quotes
(09:07) "The prosecutorial power is a very dangerous power. Even if you can't get a conviction, to bring an indictment and to pursue a prosecution against someone can ruin their life." — Matthew Brogdon

(12:26) "The independent counsel has, quote, full power and independent authority to exercise all investigative and prosecutorial functions and powers of The Department of Justice, the Attorney General, and any other officer or employee of the Department of Justice." — Matthew Brogdon

(34:09) "I think the founding generation expected the impeachment power to be a far more widely utilized power. That's been extremely rare. And I think we've actually underutilized it." — Matthew Brogdon

(37:43) "Checks and balances work best when you lean into their political structure. They're inherently political structure, and they get really murky, and we get lots of problems or potential problems when we ignore that structure in favor of a more legal structure and rely more on the courts." — Savannah Eccles Johnston
40 min
July 28, 2025Season 2, Episode 14 | High Crimes or Political Fights? When Impeachment Becomes a Constitutional Battleground
When we hear “impeachment,” most of us immediately think: the President. But what if that’s only part of the story? In this episode of This Constitution, Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon explore the lesser-known history of impeaching cabinet secretaries and other executive officials, revealing how the process has always been more political than legal.
They revisit the case of Secretary of War William Belknap, who resigned in tears in 1876, hoping to dodge impeachment—only to face it anyway. Fast-forward to 2024, and Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas is at the center of a modern-day controversy that reopens the same unresolved questions. Can officials be impeached after they’ve left office? What actually qualifies as a “high crime or misdemeanor”? And who decides?
Through historical case studies, sharp legal insight, and a few surprising turns (including George Washington daring Congress to impeach him), this episode digs into how impeachment functions as a tool of accountability—and a reflection of the political moment.
If you think impeachment is just about criminal wrongdoing, think again. This conversation will shift how you view one of the Constitution’s most powerful and misunderstood mechanisms.
In This Episode
(00:13) Introduction and overview
(00:59) Impeachment process and constitutional ambiguity
(02:52) Impeaching former officials: The Belknap case
(05:32) Impeachment after resignation: Nixon and precedents
(07:50) Trump’s second impeachment and unresolved legal questions
(08:21) Senate jurisdiction and the Blount case
(11:30) Defining high crimes and misdemeanors: Johnson’s impeachment
(13:07) Political vs. legal grounds for impeachment
(15:23) Impeachment standards for judges vs. executives
(16:12) Early impeachment threats: Washington and the Jay Treaty
(17:39) Modern debates: Mayorkas's impeachment and political disputes
(19:19) Impeachment responsibility: Cabinet secretaries vs. presidents
(22:32) Impeachment as a congressional tool
(23:16) Impeachment’s political nature and checks and balances
(24:36) Impeachment vs. criminal prosecution
(27:05) Conclusion: Impeachment’s role in American government
Notable Quotes
(00:43) "When it comes to executive impeachments, we have a history of failed impeachments." — Savannah
(03:01) "Can you impeach former government officials? The Constitution does not tell us... This is something that had to be figured out in the moment that it became an issue." — Savannah
(05:10) "I just hope at some point in my life I can find an occasion to look at an office holder and say, you have prostituted your high office out of a lust for private gain." — Matthew
(06:43) "Impeachment is not just about removing people from office. It's also about the possibility of excluding them or disqualifying them from future office holding." — Matthew
(17:05) "Washington was saying, impeach me if you think I can't be trusted and I violated the public interest in negotiating this treaty." — Matthew
(26:29) "One use for impeachment is to remove a president so that he can be successfully criminally charged." — Savannah
(27:07) "Impeachment is a tool in the checks and balances toolbox when it comes to working out disputes between the branches." — Matthew
29 min
July 14, 2025Season 2, Episode 13 | Judging the Judges: Impeachment and the Courts
In This Episode
In this episode of This Constitution, Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon explore one of the least understood and most powerful tools in the U.S. Constitution: impeachment. But forget presidents for now, this episode dives deep into judicial impeachments: how they work, why they're rare, and why judges have historically been the ones who get removed.
Savannah and Matthew unpack what it means for Congress to wield this political sword, why it's not a criminal process, and how colorful cases like Samuel Chase and Alcee Hastings shaped our understanding of judicial accountability. Along the way, they raise big questions about what "high crimes and misdemeanors" really means—and whether just being bad at your job is enough to get you booted off the bench.
(00:00:13) Introduction to judicial impeachment and constitutional process
(00:01:00) The House indicts, the Senate convicts
(00:02:23) Impeachment is a political, not criminal process
(00:03:42) The Senate as jury and the role of the Chief Justice
(00:05:13) Historical focus: judges, not presidents
(00:05:58) Corruption, perjury, and Florida judges
(00:06:29) Why cabinet members get fired but judges get impeached
(00:07:00) Life tenure vs. good behavior
(00:08:00) Samuel Chase and the partisan bench
(00:10:00) The Jeffersonian purge of the courts
(00:12:00) Why Chase avoided conviction
(00:13:30) Fast forward to Alcee Hastings (and yes, Florida again)
(00:14:30) No conviction? No problem—still impeached
(00:15:20) Hastings’s comeback as a Congressman
(00:17:00) Can you impeach just for bad rulings?
(00:18:13) Defining “high crimes and misdemeanors”
(00:20:00) Bad judgment vs. misconduct
(00:21:26) The Senate is the ultimate check
(00:24:01) The case of Judge Pickering and judicial incompetence
(00:26:05) Balancing judicial independence with accountability
(00:28:00) Why judicial impeachments are so rare and so hard
Notable Quotes
(00:03:00) "Though this is set up like a criminal trial, it’s important to note this is a political process. This is not a criminal process." — Savannah Eccles Johnston
(00:07:05) "You only get to hold this office as long as you behave yourself. And there’s a way to get rid of you if not." — Matthew Brogdon
(00:12:25) "Had they impeached Chase, it would’ve telegraphed to the court: if you act like a partisan hack on the bench, we will kick you off." — Matthew Brogdon
(00:15:00) "He’s no longer a judge, but Florida elects him to Congress. So I guess… he wins?" — Savannah Eccles Johnston
(00:18:57) "High crimes and misdemeanors are not defined in the Constitution. But 'misdemeanor' back then just meant to misbehave." — Matthew Brogdon
(00:26:05) "There is a fine balance between judicial independence and oversight by Congress. And impeachment is the only tool Congress has." — Savannah Eccles Johnston
Resources and Links
This Constitution
https://bit.ly/4fYWnVi
Savannah Eccles Johnston
https://www.linkedin.com/in/savannah-eccles-johnston-515a72198/
https://www.instagram.com/savypolitics/
Matthew Brogdon
https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-brogdon-8a21bb89
https://www.uvu.edu/ccs/people/matthew_brogdon.html
31 min
July 04, 2025Season 2, Episode 12 | John Dickinson: The Reluctant Revolutionary Who Shaped a Nation
In this Independence Day episode of This Constitution, Matthew Brogdon is joined by Dr. Jane Calvert, Director of the John Dickinson Writings Project and author of Penman of the Revolution. Together, they explore the legacy of John Dickinson, one of America’s most influential yet often overlooked founders.
Best known for Letters from a Farmer in Pennsylvania, Dickinson was a leading advocate for colonial rights but notably opposed the rush toward independence. Jane explains how Dickinson’s belief in natural rights, his cautious approach to revolution, and his commitment to unity positioned him as both a voice of reason and a strategic architect of America’s founding.
Matthew and Jane dive into Dickinson's critical contributions to the Articles of Confederation, his overlooked role in shaping early American foreign policy, and how he continued to influence the nation, leading troops, freeing enslaved people, and playing a vital part in the Constitutional Convention.
If you think the American Revolution was driven only by firebrands and radicals, this episode will challenge that view and reveal how one of the most cautious founders helped lay the foundation for American independence and unity.
In This Episode
(00:00:37) Introduction
(00:00:27) Dickinson’s Letters from a Farmer in Pennsylvania
(00:01:22) Sources of rights: British law vs. natural rights
(00:03:45) Dickinson’s ambivalence toward independence
(00:06:20) Colonial status and constitutional debates
(00:07:21) Dickinson’s views on Parliament, trade, and executive power
(00:11:08) The onset of war and Dickinson’s role in Congress
(00:12:23) The Olive Branch Petition and the Declaration of Taking Up Arms
(00:17:10) Dickinson’s strategic use of time and preparation for war
(00:19:29) Dickinson’s leadership in the Pennsylvania militia and committees
(00:20:36) Congressional debates: diplomacy, union, and independence
(00:21:58) Dickinson’s position on independence and committee work
(00:24:01) Drafting the Articles of Confederation and the Model Treaty
(00:29:10) Dickinson’s post-Declaration statesmanship
(00:31:51) Dickinson’s role in the Federal Convention and later life
(00:35:36) Conclusion and legacy
Notable Quotes
(02:32) "Dickinson was one of the earliest people who said, actually, that is not right. Our rights are not bestowed upon us by any kind of paper or parchment. They come to us from God" — Jane Calvert
(05:51) "Understand that from the vantage point of the 1760s and early 1770s, the safest course for securing rights was within the confines of the British Constitution." — Jane Calvert
(06:28) “The British considered themselves to have a constitution. They had certain institutional relationships, just like we argue over the relationship between the President and Congress and the relationship between the federal government and the states.”— Matthew Brogdon
(16:14) "Dickinson’s goal with the Declaration was to produce such apprehensions in the British that they would think twice about coming over here." — Jane Calvert
(24:08) "If Dickinson had supported independence, he would have written the Declaration." — Jane Calvert
(26:37) "The model treaty Dickinson helped draft became the blueprint for American foreign policy until World War II." — Jane Calvert
(26:45) "So it is a shame in a way that when we think about the Continental Congress, we often think about the Declaration of Independence and the conduct of the war. But forget some of these other crucial things that are happening and don't really happen,." — Matthew Brogdon
37 min

About This Constitution

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This Constitution is an every-two-weeks podcast ordained and established by the Center for Constitutional Studies at Utah Valley University, the home of Utah’s Civic Thought & Leadership…