This Machine Kills

Intro: Contra – This Machine Kills (remixed) https://contra805.bandcamp.com/track/this-machine-kills

We’re joined by two of the sharpest minds on the politics of AI and data governance—Meredith Whittaker and Salomé Viljoen—to chat about the relationship between corporate gatekeepers and academic research, the construction and infrastructure of data, AI as a universal hammer for all nails, how the state enforces Silicon Valley’s power, and what it would take to seize the data pipeline from private capital for the public good.

This discussion expands on a recent article we published in Nature: Everyone should decide how their digital data are used—not just tech companies | Jathan Sadowski, Salomé Viljoen, Meredith Whittaker: nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01812-3

Salomé’s profile: law.columbia.edu/faculty/salome-viljoen

And Twitter: twitter.com/salome_viljoen_

Meredith’s profile: ainowinstitute.org/people/meredith-whittaker.html

And Twitter: twitter.com/mer__edith

Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills

Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/

Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

Outro: Processory - Take Me To Your Leader https://sugars.bandcamp.com/track/take-me-to-your-leader

We talk about insurance technology as Jathan gives the lowdown on a big grant he just received to do a multi-year project investigating the political economy of the insurtech sector. We then discuss the FIRE sector more generally and look at recent reporting on how property tech companies are buying up homes.

Some stuff we reference:

• Draining the Risk Pools | Jathan Sadowski: https://reallifemag.com/draining-the-risk-pool/

• Data machine: the insurers using AI to reshape the industry | Ian Smith: https://www.ft.com/content/d3bd46cb-75d4-40ff-a0cd-6d7f33d58d7f

• The personalisation of insurance: Data, behaviour and innovation | Liz McFall, Gert Meyers, Ine Van Hoyweghen: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2053951720973707

• Zillow, Other Tech Firms Are in an ‘Arms Race’ To Buy Up American Homes | Maxwell Strachan: https://www.vice.com/en/article/93ymxz/zillow-other-tech-firms-are-in-an-arms-race-to-buy-up-american-homes

• The attachments of ‘autonomous’ vehicles | Chris Tennant, Jack Stilgoe: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03063127211038752

Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills

Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/

Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

We’re joined by Taylor Lorenz – business reporter at the New York Times, twitter.com/TaylorLorenz – for an excellent discussion about the evolution and rapid growth of the creator economy, the working conditions of content creators across social media platforms, the predatory system of management, marketing, and investment, and the venture capitalists who only saw this labor as valid once they could exploit it.

Some of Taylor’s work we reference:

• Hello, Content Creators. Silicon Valley’s Investors Want to Meet You. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/12/technology/content-creators-venture-capital.html

• Young Creators Are Burning Out and Breaking Down https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/08/style/creator-burnout-social-media.html

• The App With the Unprintable Name That Wants to Give Power to Creators https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/02/technology/fypm-creators-app-pay.html

Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills

Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/

Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

It’s the final chapter of Autonomous Technology: “Frankenstein’s Problem.” We talk for a while about the story of Frankenstein as an allegory for responsibility, neglect, and care for our creations. We then get into Winner’s core ideas of “technology as legislation” and “Luddism as epistemology” before providing some general synthesis of the book as a whole. You can find a free pdf of the whole book here: https://www.ratical.org/ratville/AoS/AutonomousTechnology.pdf

Article we reference

Revolutionary Readings: Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein and the Luddite Uprisings | Edith Gardner: https://ir.uiowa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1171&context=ijcs

Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills

Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/

Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

We’re delighted to be joined by Chris Gilliard (twitter.com/hypervisible) – one of the best experts on privacy and surveillance around – for a fantastic discussion laying out his incisive analysis of “luxury surveillance” and “imposed surveillance.” To quote Chris: “Luxury surveillance is expensive, voluntary, and sleek. Imposed surveillance is involuntary, overt, clunky, and meant to stand out.” It’s not (just) the operations of technology that distinguish these two forms of surveillance, but the socio-political relations they perpetuate and plug into. We end the episode talking about some of Chris’s work on “digital redlining.”

Some stuff we reference:

• Privacy’s not an abstraction | Chris Gilliard: fastcompany.com/90323529/privacy-is-not-an-abstraction

• Caught in the spotlight | Chris Gilliard: urbanomnibus.net/2020/01/caught-in-the-spotlight/

• Luxury surveillance | Chris Gilliard and David Golumbia: reallifemag.com/luxury-surveillance/

• Dark Matters: On the Surveillance of Blackness | Simone Browne: dukeupress.edu/dark-matters

• Big Tech call center workers face pressure to accept home surveillance | Olivia Solon: nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/big-tech-call-center-workers-face-pressure-accept-home-surveillance-n1276227

Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills

Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/

Outro: Mr. Suit by New Bomb Turks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VraBz96VbLA

We get deeper into the political economy of precision agriculture and how these “innovating” are iterating on traditional forms of enclosure and dispossession, how they operationalize older corporate management philosophies and strategies, and how they plug into the global system of extraction and accumulation. We end the episode on high note by talking about the new right to repair rules being enforced by the FTC.

Stuff we reference:

Todd Feathers | Police Are Telling ShotSpotter to Alter Evidence From Gunshot-Detecting AI | Motherboard Vice https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8xbq/police-are-telling-shotspotter-to-alter-evidence-from-gunshot-detecting-ai

Alistair Fraser (2018). Land grab/data grab: precision agriculture and its new horizons. The Journal of Peasant Studies https://sci-hub.mksa.top/10.1080/03066150.2017.1415887

Alistair Fraser (2019). The digital revolution, data curation, and the new dynamics of food sovereignty construction. The Journal of Peasant Studies https://sci-hub.mksa.top/10.1080/03066150.2019.1602522

Alistair Fraser (2021). ‘You can't eat data’?: Moving beyond the misconfigured innovations of smart farming. Journal of Rural Studies https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0743016721001856

Emily Duncan, Alesandros Glaros, Dennis Z. Ross, and Eric Nost (2021). New but for whom? Discourses of innovation in precision agriculture. Agriculture and Human Values https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8278188/

Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills

Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/

Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

Outro: St. Lorelei - https://stlorelei.bandcamp.com/track/outside-the-green

We kick things off with an announcement about TMK sweeps month. Then we get into a discussion of data politics based on the recent investigation into how ShotSpotter – the “AI-powered” gunshot detector sensors – is being used by police to fabricate fake data for evidence. We wrap up by providing an intro to the political economy of “data grabbing” and precision agriculture – a topic we’ll dive much deeper into on the premium episode this week.

Stuff we reference:

Todd Feathers | Police Are Telling ShotSpotter to Alter Evidence From Gunshot-Detecting AI | Motherboard Vice https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8xbq/police-are-telling-shotspotter-to-alter-evidence-from-gunshot-detecting-ai

Alistair Fraser (2018). Land grab/data grab: precision agriculture and its new horizons. The Journal of Peasant Studies https://sci-hub.mksa.top/10.1080/03066150.2017.1415887

Alistair Fraser (2019). The digital revolution, data curation, and the new dynamics of food sovereignty construction. The Journal of Peasant Studies https://sci-hub.mksa.top/10.1080/03066150.2019.1602522

Alistair Fraser (2021). ‘You can't eat data’?: Moving beyond the misconfigured innovations of smart farming. Journal of Rural Studies https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0743016721001856

Emily Duncan, Alesandros Glaros, Dennis Z. Ross, and Eric Nost (2021). New but for whom? Discourses of innovation in precision agriculture. Agriculture and Human Values https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8278188/

Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills

Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/

Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

We discuss Chapter 7 of Autonomous Technology: “Complexity and the Loss of Agency.” Ed couldn’t be here for this episode, so we’re joined again by David Banks, who really stepped up to provide some great insights into understanding our socio-political relationship to complex technical systems designed to keep us in the dark about how and why the things we rely on actually work—and who they work for. We explore the dialectic between increasing complexity and diminishing agency, the poverty to cultural criticism vs. political analysis, and why technologies are not enchanted objects that grant us magical powers. You can find a free pdf of the whole book here: https://www.ratical.org/ratville/AoS/AutonomousTechnology.pdf

• Read David’s article: Engineered Violence: Confronting the Neutrality Problem and Violence in Engineering: https://ojs.library.queensu.ca/index.php/IJESJP/article/view/6604

• Follow David: https://twitter.com/DA_Banks

• Listen to Iron Weeds: https://twitter.com/ironweedspod

• Listen to Reaction: https://twitter.com/reactionpodcast

Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills

Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/

Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

We're taking a week off recording so we're unlocking one of our favorite episodes from the Patreon feed for you to enjoy.

Cold open: Ghost in the Shell.

There is a long list of services that purport to be powered by sophisticated software, but actually rely on humans acting like robots. We discuss a critical concept—whether we call it Potemkin AI, fauxtomation, or ghost work—for understanding how so much so-called artificial intelligence is just a spectacle, a simulation, designed to mystify the labor that really turns the crank of smart systems sold as advanced innovations. They are the humans hidden inside mechanical minds.

Some stuff we reference:

• Potemkin AI | Jathan Sadowski: https://reallifemag.com/potemkin-ai/

• The Automation Charade | Astra Taylor: https://logicmag.io/failure/the-automation-charade/

• Ghost Work: How to Stop Silicon Valley from Building a New Global Underclass | Mary L. Gray Siddharth Suri: https://ghostwork.info/

• Behind the Screen: Content Moderation in the Shadows of Social Media | Sarah T. Roberts: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300235883/behind-screen

• Difference and Dependence among Digital Workers: The Case of Amazon Mechanical Turk | Lilly Irani: https://read.dukeupress.edu/south-atlantic-quarterly/article-abstract/114/1/225/3763/Difference-and-Dependence-among-Digital-Workers

Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills

Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/

Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

After way too long, we finally got our friend and comrade Paris Marx—host of the excellent podcast Tech Won’t Save Us—on TMK for a great conversation ranging from the politics of Bitcoin and Tesla to the current state of tech media/criticism and need for counter-propaganda against Silicon Valley. Paris is always in the interviewer seat on TWSU, so we turn things around on him and also ask how he got into leftist analysis of tech and his forthcoming book on the techno-politics of transportation.

Follow Paris on Twitter: twitter.com/parismarx

Listen to Tech Won’t Save Us: techwontsave.us/

Read The Hammer newsletter: techwontsave.us6.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=3bfbe60f81172d5eff78e0dbe&id=09015cbec3

Support his wonderful podcast: patreon.com/techwontsaveus

Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills

Grab your TMK gear: bonfire.com/store/this-machine-kills-podcast/

Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)