On this episode of The New Stack Makers, TC Currie is joined by Zack Butcher, who has long been involved in and advocating for cloud engineering. He’s a founding engineer at Tetrate, and was an engineer on the Istio team at Google.

She caught up with Butcher at the recent Service Mesh Days, where he led a four-hour training on installing & using Envoy, Istio and service meshes.

The reason for choosing a service mesh is not connected to how many services you run, or how complicated your system is, Butcher said.  It’s: “I am having pain in a distributed system and I can’t really understand what’s going on.”