Andrew Heaton is the author of the new book Tribalism Is Dumb and the host of The Political Orphanage podcast. He sits down with Paul to unpack where tribalism comes from, how it is tearing us apart, and how we might fix it. With wit, warmth, and some surprisingly deep evolutionary psychology, Andrew explains how our ancient brains are wired to seek belonging—even if that means choosing teams over Truth. They cover everything from Dunbar’s number to the loneliness epidemic, from the comedy club to Capitol Hilll, and why political identity has become a poor substitute for real community. Whether you're center-left, center-right, or just tired of the noise, this conversation offers a refreshing dose of nuance, laughs, and insight into how we got here and where we could go. If you've ever felt politically homeless—or curious why shouting on Twitter feels like the new religion, this conversation is for you! Don’t miss the part where Andrew suggests that Paul change the name of his podcast to “Drinking Liberal Tears with Paul.” (It’s not going to happen, but just think of how popular it would be if we did!)

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Follow Andrew at https://mightyheaton.com/