Trump and Zelenskyy’s fallout in the Oval Office, egged on by Vice President JD Vance, shocked onlookers and has left the world reeling. So, what comes next? Jarv and Nikki are joined by Matt Duss, executive director of the center for international policy and co-host of the The Un-Diplomatic Podcast, to discuss the fallout and what it means. 

Back us on Patreon – we need your help to keep going. Get ad free episodes, extra bits and merch: https://www.patreon.com/americanfriction 

Follow us on Bluesky – https://bsky.app/profile/americanfric.bsky.social 

We’re now on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@AmericanFrictionPod

Written and presented by Jacob Jarvis and Nikki McCann Ramírez. Audio and video editor: Simon Williams. Group Editor: Andrew Harrison. Executive producer: Martin Bojtos. Artwork by James Parrett. Music: Orange Factory Music. AMERICAN FRICTION is a Podmasters Production. www.podmasters.co.uk 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices