Trust & Influence in B2B

In this episode of the Trust and Influence in B2B podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Cat Dutton, VP of Global Growth at Pega. Drawing from her experience in senior positions at three global tech companies, Dutton shares how trust serves as the foundation for effective marketing leadership—from stakeholder relationships to team management and customer engagement.

Topics Covered

• Building credibility with skeptical stakeholders (finance, IT, sales)
• Transparent approaches to demonstrating marketing ROI
• Trust dynamics in account-based marketing
• Creating authentic team cultures
• Evolution of thought leadership and partner strategies
• Customer advocacy as a trust multiplier

Key Conclusions

Listen First, Speak Second: Dutton emphasizes that truly understanding stakeholder needs requires genuine listening rather than assumption. "Take time to listen to what they're actually saying to you," she advises. This extends to language choices—her team replaced "leads" with "unqualified opportunities" when speaking with sales, transforming relationship dynamics.

Transparent ROI Reporting: Rather than highlighting only successes, Dutton advocates showing both wins and challenges in marketing performance. Her team's CMO dashboard explicitly identifies underperforming investments alongside proposals for improvement, building finance stakeholder trust through honesty.

Co-Creation Builds Trust: For account-based marketing, Dutton rejects isolation in favor of collaboration with customers. "Spend time with customers. Create plans together, not in isolation," she recommends. This approach has been so successful that Pega's ABM initiatives are often promoted on client intranets—reaching broader audiences than initially targeted.

For marketers stepping into leadership roles, Dutton's parting advice is simple: Spend more time with people than seems necessary, over-communicate consistently, delegate confidently, and above all, "Don't lie to people, just don't do it."

In this thought-provoking episode of the Trust and Influence Podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Steve Mudd, CEO of Talentless AI, about the transformative impact of artificial intelligence on B2B thought leadership and marketing.

With a colorful career spanning roles as Marketing Director at NetApp and positions at Ogilvy & Mather, Mudd has emerged as a prominent voice in the AI marketing space. His company name "Talentless AI" encapsulates his philosophy: "You don't have to be talented to use AI. You don't have to have any particular skill. It kind of allows you to level up in a number of ways."

Mudd argues that AI is fundamentally dismantling traditional information hierarchies: "Every website out there is crap compared to the information that I can get out of GPT right now." This forces marketers to reconsider where and how they provide value when AI can synthesize information more efficiently than traditional content platforms.

One of the most concerning trends Mudd identifies is what he calls "thought farming" – the industrial-scale production of AI-generated content that mimics thought leadership but exists primarily to drive engagement. This proliferation of content is diluting platform value and driving audiences away from traditional information sources like LinkedIn.

The most effective thought leadership is shifting from corporate publications to individual voices who consistently contribute to ongoing conversations. Mudd surprisingly identifies TikTok as his primary source for thought leadership content, noting figures like Scott Galloway and Rory Sutherland who leverage the platform's format for personal connection.

As someone who regularly experiments with AI avatars, Mudd offers fascinating insights into how synthetic media is blurring the lines between human and artificial communication. He describes creating videos so convincing that "people can't tell" they're AI-generated, while emphasizing that transparency remains crucial for maintaining trust.

"It's the rise of the English major," Mudd suggests when discussing the skills future marketers will need. Success in an AI-augmented world requires two critical capabilities: "First, the ability to communicate with language... Second, understanding if the output is good or not – that discernment of quality."

While acknowledging legitimate concerns about AI's impact on trust, Mudd maintains a fundamentally optimistic outlook. He views AI not as a threat to marketing jobs but as a creative opportunity to transcend limitations and explore new forms of communication.

His warning to B2B organizations is clear: "There will be a lot of companies who use AI as an excuse to do what they've always done, which is downsize every so often or cut budgets. But the reality is, if you don't lean in, it's just a matter of time before you're disrupted."

In an era where anyone can generate content at scale, the competitive advantage comes not from quantity but from quality, authenticity, and the ability to genuinely move conversations forward. That's the true challenge and opportunity of thought leadership in the AI era.

Listen to the full episode to discover how kittens, digital twins, and the future of B2B marketing intersect in ways you never imagined.

In this episode of the 'Trust & Influence in B2B' podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Rob Mitchell, thought leadership expert and founder of Longitude, which later became part of the Financial Times Group. Having recently moved on from FT Longitude, Rob brings unique insights from his experience working with major B2B brands including Deloitte, Siemens, and Credit Suisse. With his background in journalism at both the Economist and the Financial Times, Rob offers a distinctive perspective on thought leadership as a sophisticated marketing discipline.

Topics Covered

• The evolution of thought leadership from a niche activity to a mainstream B2B marketing approach.
• The three essential ingredients that define effective thought leadership.
• The distinction between "purist" and "pragmatist" approaches to thought leadership.
• Common mistakes organizations make when developing thought leadership programs.
• How to develop a portfolio approach that aligns with different stages of the buyer journey.
• The impact of AI on both content production and consumption.
• The growing importance of trust and authenticity in the AI era.
• When thought leadership is (and isn't) the right investment for B2B organizations.

Key conclusions

1. Thought leadership as a craft: Effective thought leadership requires three key ingredients: fresh thinking (though not necessarily groundbreaking), relevance to the audience's needs, and brand distinctiveness. "If you're just coming up with messaging or insights that are generic or could be produced by anybody, that's not thought leadership in my book," Mitchell emphasizes.
2. The pragmatist approach: While "purist" thought leadership focuses on intellectual exploration without explicit commercial ties, Mitchell advocates for a more pragmatic approach that aligns with business objectives. This doesn't mean sacrificing quality but rather ensuring content supports specific marketing or commercial goals.
3. Portfolio strategy: Rather than expecting a single piece of thought leadership to accomplish multiple objectives, organizations should develop a portfolio approach. This begins with defining "what you want to be famous for" and cascades from high-level thought leadership to more technical content addressing specific buyer needs.
4. Trust as differentiator: As AI makes content production easier and potentially floods the market with mediocre material, trustworthiness becomes the critical differentiator. "That's going to be a massively important currency going forward for thought leadership," Mitchell notes, emphasizing consistency and credibility as essential attributes.
5. Audience-centric simplicity: Many organizations sabotage their thought leadership by taking an "inside-out" view, assuming audiences share their interests, or by overcomplicating their messages. Mitchell advocates for simplicity, clarity, and an outside-in perspective that starts with audience problems rather than organizational messages.

For B2B marketers navigating complex sales cycles with multiple stakeholders, thought leadership offers a powerful way to build the trust necessary for both initial engagement and long-term relationships. By applying Mitchell's frameworks, organizations can transform their approach from generic content marketing to strategic thought leadership that drives genuine business value.

In this episode of the Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Ash Lockett, Head of B2B marketing at Babel PR. They discuss findings from Babel's second annual research study examining what influences B2B technology buying decisions among enterprise organizations in the UK and US.

Topics Covered

• Babel PR's positioning as an integrated PR and marketing agency for B2B technology brands
• Research methodology focusing on 403 technology buyers from organizations with 1,000+ employees
• The continued importance of long-form thought leadership content in B2B tech purchasing decisions
• Trade media's position as the most influential information source for tech decision-makers
• The integration of different marketing channels and tactics for maximum effectiveness
• The relationship between trust and brand awareness in B2B purchasing decisions
• The potential impact of AI-generated content on thought leadership quality
• The critical role of technical champions in the B2B buying process

Key conclusions

1. Long-Form Content Remains Essential: Despite trends toward shorter content formats, one-third of B2B technology buyers prefer reading long-form thought leadership. For high-value, complex purchases, buyers need comprehensive information to build business cases and justify investments to senior leadership.
2. Trade Media Provides Critical Validation: One in five B2B tech buyers regularly consume news from industry trade publications. These specialized outlets offer more targeted impact than mainstream media by providing third-party validation that helps establish credibility and trustworthiness.
3. Consistency Across Channels Drives Results: Success requires an integrated approach where messaging remains consistent across all marketing touchpoints. As Lockyer notes, "68% in our research said consistency is ultimately really important in their purchasing decisions."
4. The "Rule of Three" in B2B Purchasing: Buyers typically only consider three brands when beginning a purchase journey. Establishing brand awareness is crucial to making this shortlist, with trust becoming the deciding factor between finalists: "You might be the most trusted brand on the planet...but if no one knows who you are, they're not going to purchase you."
5. Technical Champions Are Key Influencers: While marketing often targets C-suite executives, Babel's research found technical teams are almost as influential as CIOs and CTOs. These champions typically research vendors, create shortlists, and build the business cases that executives ultimately approve.

For B2B marketers looking to influence complex technology purchases, focusing on substantive, consistent messaging through targeted channels— particularly trade media and long-form content — while addressing both decision-makers and technical champions remains a winning strategy in 2025 and beyond.

In this episode of the Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Chris Bailey, who brings perspectives from both client-side experience (as senior director of integrated campaigns at ServiceNow) and agency-side work (at The Marketing Practice). Bailey shares valuable insights on how B2B organizations can develop and deploy thought leadership strategically to drive business outcomes and create memorable impact.

• The four distinct dimensions of thought leadership and how they interconnect.
• Differentiating true thought leadership from standard content marketing.
• How research and data should support storytelling, not lead it.
• Resolving the false dichotomy between brand-building and demand generation.
• Extending thought leadership consistently across the entire customer journey.
• Creating compelling B2B stories that lodge in memory and drive action
• The transformative impact of AI on thought leadership development and deployment.
• Balancing individual thought leaders with organizational positions.

1. Thought Leadership as a Strategic Asset: Bailey positions thought leadership alongside brand as a fundamental business asset that should influence communications at every level. "The power of thought leadership is when you are connecting [all four dimensions] end to end," Bailey asserts, emphasizing its role in shaping perceptions and influencing customer relationships.
2. Story Before Statistics: While data plays a crucial role in supporting thought leadership, Bailey warns against beginning with research: "You could start by doing a piece of research... but sometimes you can get to the end of the piece of research and still realize you don't have the story." The most effective approach starts with identifying the unique customer value narrative, then determining what research will support it.
3. Bridging Brand and Demand: Bailey challenges the common tension between brand-building and demand generation, seeing thought leadership as "the thread that actually pulls the two things together." This integrated approach creates coherent customer experiences where thought leadership narratives flow consistently from awareness through sales conversations to post-purchase success.

For B2B marketers seeking to elevate their thought leadership efforts, Bailey offers this straightforward advice: focus on purpose rather than outputs, and remember that truly effective thought leadership connects an organization's unique insights about customer value to compelling narratives that resonate throughout the buyer journey.

For the past two decades, Claire Mason has been at the forefront of thought leadership in B2B marketing. As the founder and CEO of Man Bites Dog—celebrating its 20th anniversary in 2024—Mason has pioneered an approach that transforms intelligent ideas into business growth for complex B2B brands.

In this episode of the 'Trust & Influence in B2B' podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Mason about her journey establishing "the world's first thought leadership consultancy" and explores how organizations can harness thought leadership to build authority, differentiate their offerings, and drive measurable commercial outcomes in today's market.

• The origin story of Man Bites Dog and its evolution from "PR agency by stealth" to specialized thought leadership consultancy
• Research findings on how C-suite leaders consume and trust B2B thought leadership
• The thought leadership classification system: thought makers, thought shapers, and thought followers
• Examples of successful thought leadership campaigns, including Arcadis' Sustainable Cities Index and Intel's Sustainable CTO initiative
• How thought leadership bridges the gap between brand building and sales enablement
• The role of centralized content assets in creating alignment across organizations
• Common pitfalls that undermine thought leadership effectiveness
• The impact of AI and emerging formats on thought leadership strategy

1. B2B brands have emerged as trusted sources of information: Mason's research shows that "97% of C-suite leaders are consuming content from B2B brands every week, more than half of them daily." Remarkably, these executives now trust content from B2B brands more than media, government, or public institutions.
2. Thought leadership directly influences buying decisions: "74% of C-suite leaders always consider a strategic supplier's thought leadership when making a buying decision," underscoring its importance throughout the sales cycle. Rather than merely generating awareness, effective thought leadership guides prospects from initial engagement through to purchase.
3. Bold, differentiated ideas drive greater impact: Mason emphasizes that "having a bold idea, it will travel further. The more you dilute that idea, it becomes kind of homeopathy and is no longer bold." Organizations that develop distinctive perspectives on industry challenges achieve significantly better results than those recycling conventional wisdom.
4. Future-focused content creates competitive advantage: "You don't want to market where you are today. You want to market what you want to be for clients in the future," Mason advises. By addressing emerging challenges rather than just current pain points, companies can differentiate themselves in crowded markets and position themselves as strategic partners.
5. Alignment is critical for organizational impact: With many companies housing numerous experts, Mason stresses the importance of creating "a golden thread that joins everything up." Without this alignment, individual thought leadership efforts may fragment rather than reinforce the brand narrative.

For organizations selling high-value, knowledge-based solutions, thought leadership has evolved from a peripheral marketing activity to a central business strategy. As Mason concludes: "You're only as good as the thinking that you're sharing. And I think a lot of companies really have a lot of work to do to make sure they're really showcasing the intelligence that they're selling in the right way."

In this episode of the Trust and Influence in B2B Marketing podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Hayley Brooksbank, Group Marketing Director at TTP (The Technology Partnership). With a background spanning professional services and agency roles, Hayley shares valuable insights on the unique challenges of developing thought leadership in a highly technical organization where confidentiality is paramount and PhDs abound.

Topics Covered

• TTP's unique position as a technology and product development consultancy working with clients from space tech companies to biotech firms
• The "nose wrinkle" phenomenon when technical experts hear the term "thought leadership"
• Creating a three-tier approach to content that distinguishes between routine content, insight articles, and true thought leadership
• Balancing SEO requirements with technical experts' desire to only publish groundbreaking content
• The role of scientific editors and ghostwriters in creating accessible yet technically accurate content
• How confidentiality requirements create additional challenges for marketing highly specialized services
• Recent breakthrough in room-temperature stable mRNA therapeutics as an example of genuine thought leadership
• The concept of "black ops thought leadership" - keeping valuable insights exclusive for key clients

Key Conclusions

1. Redefining Thought Leadership: True thought leadership should be original, commercially relevant, and genuinely disruptive. Distinguishing between different types of content helps technical experts understand what's being asked of them and why, removing resistance to content creation.
2. Building Internal Trust: For marketers in technical organizations, building trust with internal experts is just as important as building trust with clients. Being transparent about marketing objectives and respecting technical integrity helps foster this trust and partnership.
3. Finding the Balance: The most effective approach combines technical depth with commercial relevance. As Brooksbank explains: "It's about us being truthful about which type of content we need and then not over-claiming, because technical experts hate that—they can see through it."
4. Content Evolution: Even in highly technical environments, there's room for more accessible, business-focused content that provides practical value. Developing tools and insights that help clients build internal cases for budgets can be just as valuable as purely technical content.

For B2B marketers struggling to engage technical experts, Brooksbank's advice is clear: understand which "lane" your content belongs in, don't misrepresent marketing objectives, show respect for technical expertise, and build trust through genuine partnership.

This conversation offers valuable insights for any marketer navigating the complexities of thought leadership in highly specialized B2B environments where technical credibility and marketing effectiveness must coexist.

In this episode of the Trust and Influence in B2B podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Benedict Buckland, who leads Alan Agency, a B2B brand building agency focused on helping clients in financial services, technology, and professional services sectors. Alan Agency operates at the intersection of thought leadership and advertising, helping brands use the power of brand to provoke change in how audiences think and how industries work. Benedict shares insights from their report "Thought Leadership: A Brand Building Manifesto," which explores what makes a leading brand in B2B and how companies can engage more effectively with their audiences.

Topics Covered

· The role and evolution of thought leadership as a powerful brand-building tool in B2B

· Why being an "activist" brand matters to B2B audiences and how it shapes industry perceptions

· The relationship between provocative messaging and positivity in B2B communications

· The growing credibility and sophistication of thought leadership in the B2B space

· The convergence of brand building and demand generation activities

· The shift toward consumer-grade, high-production value formats for thought leadership content

· Why having a clear brand purpose and long-term vision is essential for effective thought leadership

Key Conclusions

1. B2B Brands as Industry Activists: Benedict's research revealed that 3 in 5 business decision-makers consider "a role in defining the sector" as the most important criterion for being a leading B2B brand—ranking above market share, client list, or heritage. This suggests B2B audiences want brands to be active, not passive participants in their industries: "It's about being an active part of your sector, not a passive part of your sector."

2. Balancing Provocation with Positivity: Effective thought leadership needs to challenge existing thinking while offering constructive solutions. As Benedict explains, "What the value of provocation is... it can be a catalyst. I think if you're going to get people to think differently or to conceptually change their understanding of something, there probably does need to be that initial provocation." However, this must be balanced with a positive, solutions-oriented approach.

3. Purpose-Driven Content: In the increasingly crowded thought leadership landscape, having a clear "North Star" or purpose drives consistency and impact. Benedict distinguishes between "big P Purpose" (social good) and "small p purpose" (having intent and focus in your messaging), noting that the latter is essential for effective thought leadership: "It's about this idea of just having intent behind what you're doing, having a real sort of focus in terms of what it is I want to achieve."

For B2B marketers looking to improve their thought leadership efforts, Benedict emphasizes the importance of clarity and focus: "Don't bury the lead." Marketers should seek to move conversations forward with original insights that are relevant to their audience while maintaining a distinctive brand voice that could only come from their organization.

In this episode of the B2B Trust and Influence podcast, host Joel Harrison speaks with Vito Labate, VP of Global Industry Marketing at Capgemini, a $23 billion global tech consulting firm. Capgemini recently won gold in the thought leadership category at the B2B Marketing Awards in London for their "Building Trust in Data" campaign. With over 20 years at Capgemini, Labate offers valuable insights on how thought leadership has evolved from a support function to become a strategic growth driver for professional services firms.

Topics Covered

• The transformation of marketing in professional services firms over the past decade
• Capgemini's approach to thought leadership and the role of their Research Institute
• The award-winning "Building Trust in Data Sharing" campaign targeting public sector organizations
• Balancing brand building and demand generation through thought leadership
• The power of executive advocacy and social media in amplifying thought leadership
• Integration with account-based marketing strategies
• The shift toward more digestible, multi-format content
• How thought leadership builds trust in professional services relationships
• Measuring the impact and ROI of thought leadership initiatives

Key Conclusions

1. Strategic Evolution of Marketing: "Ten years ago, marketing organizations were almost perceived as a support function. Now we're seen as a strategic growth driver," notes Labate. This shift has moved marketing from predominantly brand awareness to becoming a central part of business growth strategy, incorporating analytics, data-backed strategies, and storytelling.
2. Trust as Foundation: In professional services, thought leadership builds critical credibility with decision-makers. "In our industry, it's all about credibility," Labate emphasizes. "The value we're bringing is around our expertise, our insight, our ability to counsel our clients on how to navigate their transformational journeys."
3. Content That Cuts Through: In an environment saturated with information, thought leadership provides genuine value rather than just sales messaging. "Thought leadership cuts through that noise because it feels like real value... that someone can take away and either learn from or have a further conversation about," explains Labate, noting the growing preference for expert-led, digestible content over corporate messaging.
4. Long-Term Approach: The most successful thought leadership isn't treated as a one-off campaign but as part of a comprehensive strategy. "What I've seen work most is when you consider it part of a longer-term journey. You get more value out of that, and you have more impact on your audience," advises Labate.

For B2B marketers embarking on their thought leadership journey, Labate recommends starting with your "why," ensuring authentic expertise, and developing a holistic content strategy that supports long-term business objectives rather than viewing thought leadership as isolated campaigns.

For B2B businesses seeking to rise above commodity status and establish themselves as strategic partners, thought leadership has become an essential capability. But what separates truly impactful thought leadership from the flood of content that overwhelms decision-makers daily?

In a recent episode of the Trust and Influence in B2B podcast, host Joel Harrison spoke with Ananda Roy, VP of Thought Leadership at Circana—a market research powerhouse formed from the merger of IRI Worldwide and NPD that recently won gold in the thought leadership category at the 2024 B2B Marketing Awards. Their conversation revealed how thought leadership can evolve from marketing activity to strategic business function.

Unlike many organizations where thought leadership operates as a marketing subfunction, Circana positions it as a core strategic capability with representation at the executive level.

"I get the feeling that I'm an outlier," notes Roy about his senior position. "You don't necessarily see the leaders of thought leadership practices getting a seat at the strategy table. Thought leadership is pretty much central to what we do in our advisory role with our clients."

This positioning reflects Circana's broader objective: transitioning from data provider to strategic growth advisor for its 7,000+ global clients across consumer goods, retail, technology and other sectors.

Despite analyzing $4 trillion of retail sales data annually and investing $500 million in AI capabilities over six years, Circana recognizes that data alone doesn't drive decisions.

"Data is increasingly becoming a commodity," Roy explains. "It's really what you do with it that is the difference between success and significant impact on client behavior."

The company's award-winning approach transforms their comprehensive "Demand Signals" report from dense data into story-driven, commercially relevant insights. Instead of overwhelming executives with statistics, they provide "tools for thinking" and strategic options that inform decision-making.

Roy shared the elegantly simple framework guiding their thought leadership strategy:

1. What are the big business questions clients are grappling with, and do we have answers?
2. Where do clients go when seeking these answers?
3. Wherever they go, are we the easiest to find?

This approach ensures their content appears precisely where decision-makers look for guidance on pressing business challenges.

While traditional thought leadership often struggles with ROI measurement, Circana takes a more sophisticated view of success:

• Invitations to bid opportunities previously closed to them
• Ability to command premium pricing
• Successful negotiations despite competitive disadvantages
• Establishment of domain authority (their content generated 2.1 billion views and engagements)
• Expanded access across client organizations

"We don't attribute sales directly to thought leadership," Roy notes. "But when we are invited to bids where Circana would not have been otherwise invited, where we are able to justify a premium on our fees... those are the areas where thought leadership is one among many enablers towards a decision."

With growing concerns about data veracity and AI biases, establishing trust has become increasingly critical. Circana builds credibility through:

• Evidence-based, independent viewpoints
• Creative, accessible presentation of complex data
• Team-based approach rather than individual "guru" voices
• Cross-functional relevance that extends beyond insights teams

"We are not flash-in-the-pan data analysts," Roy emphasizes. "We take great pleasure in the fact that we get invited again and again to those meetings."

In 2025, Circana will focus on demonstrating practical AI applications while highlighting potential model biases. They'll also reexamine category assumptions around pricing and media relationships disrupted by recent economic shifts.

Roy offers several insights for marketers looking to elevate their thought leadership:

Listen before leading: Understanding stakeholder challenges precedes offering solutions

Prioritize evidence: Ground perspectives in solid data and analysis

Connect emotionally: Engage audiences beyond intellectual understanding

Remain authentic: "Be interesting, don't take yourself too seriously"

For B2B companies seeking to transcend commodity status, Circana's approach demonstrates how thought leadership can become a strategic business asset that builds trust, establishes authority, and drives commercial success beyond what traditional marketing alone can achieve.