Under the Umbra

NOTE: When this episode was recorded, Electra still had an active license to practice acupuncture. As of July 2024, all her licenses are in INACTIVE or LAPSED status. See website for more details.

In this episode, we're discussing Collaboration!

This is both the final part of the conversation with Kiki, and is a teaser for some of the bonus material you can get by becoming a Patron of my show on Patreon. Link in show notes! This is an example of the extra, lightly edited, unscripted conversations.

This is part 5 of 5. The next topic will be Boundaries!

The Co-Host is Kiki and you can find her work here: Instagram: @heretic.homestead TikTok @heretichomestead and now on YouTube @heretichomestead9896

• Sections

  • 0:00:00 Intro
  • 0:01:28 Introduction Chat: Preview for Patron content - ECNC in public view!
  • 0:06:17 Content Warnings
    • Content warnings for Parts 1 2 and 3 of the Collaboration episodes: To explain what it feels like to be in a non-collaborative relationship, I and my co-host describe distressing psychological experiences such as hypervigilant anxiety, ruminative and psychogenic insomnia, "barrage of rhetorical convincing," intrusive thoughts that involve interpersonal violence, homicidal ideation, suicidal ideation, destruction of institutions; losing supportive relationships and becoming isolated
    • Content warnings for Part 3: stalking (in the intro) and systemic and litigation abuse of the stalking victim; cuckoo birds; sibling abuse; squicky bio stuff specifically illnesses caused by fecal bacteria; also, for people with sound sensitivity, my cat came to let me know that Kiki and I had talked for too long and to wrap it up, so you will hear him meowing and bumping into the microphone.
  • 0:07:32 Grounding Prayer
  • 0:08:40 Kiki's quick intro reprise
  • 0:09:12 Why Do We Care about Collaborative versus Non-Collaborative relationships and where Empathy fits in with that... Oops, that's a Stay Tuned situation!
  • 0:10:21 Kiki, my fabulous Audience Surrogate, has Reactions and Reflections! Electra has Goals!
  • 0:13:59 Kiki tells a story about Hypervigilance and how it shows up in unpredicted ways
  • 0:15:18 Back to how learning a new model can create a huge retrospective crisis. Am I now re-labeling what is normal, but able to help other situations? Or do I have a name for a challenging situation in my life right now and it explains some things.
  • 0:18:12 Kiki has a retrospective moment regarding work situations in the past; sidebar: proposition that Burnout is actually micro-moral injuries as people in power over you coerce you to violate your own morals
  • 0:20:30 How far do you revise? Is it that you're surrounded by a------s, or is non-collaboration a Norm we see at work, in relationships, on TV...
  • 0:22:12 Final Thoughts and Future Plans... and my cat says Wrap It Up!
  • 0:23:08 Outro, Credits, and Disclaimer

Links to all resources mentioned on the episode's forever home at UnderTheUmbra.Info

This is Under the Umbra: Using Empathy and Collaboration to Navigate a World of Shadows. In each episode, Electra and the co-hosts explore ways to think about and plan for difficult relationships with people and systems in a way that stays grounded in values and centers community. I invite you to try out focusing on Empathy and Collaboration as a realistic and compassionate model for interpersonal interactions. If you find yourself Under the Umbra, let's find our way back to the light

This podcast was created, recorded, edited and produced by me, Electra, and brought to you by Bridge to Becoming LLC.

Support the show via Patreon.com! Thanks to my patrons KC and Ellery for supporting the show!

Music is by SoulProdMusic on Pixabay and used with permission. Show art is by Lo Carter, 2023. Subtitle crafted by Vera!

NOTE: When this episode was recorded, Electra still had an active license to practice acupuncture. As of July 2024, all her licenses are in INACTIVE or LAPSED status. See website for more details.

In this episode, we're discussing Collaboration!

This is part 4 of 5. The next episode is wrapping up the conversation about Collaboration with my co-host. I'm not sure yet what the next topic will be because I've got several lined up.

Sections

• 0:00:00 Intro
• 0:01:22 Introduction Chat
• 0:06:03 Content Warnings
  • Content warnings for Parts 1 2 and 3 of the Collaboration episodes: To explain what it feels like to be in a non-collaborative relationship, I and my co-host describe distressing psychological experiences such as hypervigilant anxiety, ruminative and psychogenic insomnia, "barrage of rhetorical convincing," intrusive thoughts that involve interpersonal violence, homicidal ideation, suicidal ideation, destruction of institutions; losing supportive relationships and becoming isolated
  • Content warnings for Part 2: imagined/fictional interpersonal violence due to intrusive thoughts including torture; serial sexual assault perpetrated by a celebrity; political corruption by a past politician; mob violence (stochastic terrorism) and fictional description of homicide; workplace harassment; and descriptions of things that might trigger body dysmorphia.
• 0:07:37 Grounding Prayer
• 0:08:45 Kiki's quick intro reprise
• 0:09:14 A quick digression about how the behavior you develop in a non-collaborative relationship feels jarring and confuses others in a collaborative relationship
• 0:09:56 Intrusive Thoughts come from Learned Helplessness
• 0:11:45 How Learned Helplessness creates escalation of What It Would Take To Influence This Situation and that creates Intrusive Thoughts
• 0:13:16 Another way towards Intrusive Thoughts is, What Would It Take To Get You To Empathize? How Do I Recreate My Lived Experience In Your Body? uuuuuuh, I guess, uuuh, enhanced interrogation? because nothing else seems to work.
• 0:15:30 Sidebar: How people having intrusive thoughts and being disturbed by them provides cover for people who talk openly about their inclinations to create a sense of normalcy for when they actually act on those harmful actions.
• 0:19:15 Stochastic Terrorism as portrayed by mob violence from being Under The Umbra / an Emotional Regime of Othering, and how an Umbra of a non-collaborative relationship creates a direction for the violence for Stochastic Terrorism to occur
• 0:25:13 But non-collaborative Umbras creating emotional regimes which include an oppressed group or a scapegoat 'target of blame' also create the same micro environment as Stochastic Terrorism does on the national level and the Umbra creates the same obfuscation of Plausible Deniability
• 0:26:13 When you are in a non-collaborative relationship and the invisibility shield plus learned helplessness means you feel powerless to influence THAT relationship, you then run the risk of heaviliy overburdening the relationships in your life that ARE collaborative... until they cut you off for self-preservation, because you have become non-collaborative from being underresourced
• 0:31:13 Non-collaborative relationships happen all the time, phasically and because of neurodivergence; in every demo and SEC and can be co-morbid with other conditions; and being perpetually non-collaborative creates an Umbra where the people Under the Umbra feel the effects I've described in these episodes
• 0:32:32 First step: look in your metaphorical rear view mirror and blind spots, or open the closet door to peer at the jumbled storage, to see where you are in relationship with a non-collaborative person, to pierce the invisibility shield and start to make plans about how to change that relationship, cultivate self-compassion and self-forgiveness and relationship repair, and find resources
• 0:33:43 When you pull down the invisibility shield, suddenly a person who appeared normal before suddenly appears to be an Alien or a Monster... but hopefullly this is a phase in your repair, not the final form; Stopping with that as the Final Form = Cut Out Toxic People culture
• 0:37:04 Outro, Credits, and Disclaimer

The Co-Host is Kiki and you can find her work here: Instagram: @heretic.homestead TikTok @heretichomestead and now YouTube @heretichomestead9896

References mentioned in the show can be found in the show notes!

This is Under the Umbra: Using Empathy and Collaboration to Navigate a World of Shadows. In each episode, Electra and the co-hosts explore ways to think about and plan for difficult relationships with people and systems in a way that stays grounded in values and centers community. I invite you to try out focusing on Empathy and Collaboration as a realistic and compassionate model for interpersonal interactions. If you find yourself Under the Umbra, let's find our way back to the light.

Find the show's home at Under The Umbra . Info

Support the show at Patreon.com/UnderTheUmbraPodcast

This podcast was created, recorded, edited and produced by me, Electra, and brought to you by Bridge to Becoming LLC. Music is by SoulProdMusic on Pixabay and used with permission. Show art is by Lo Carter, 2023. Subtitle crafted by Vera!

NOTE: When this episode was recorded, Electra still had an active license to practice acupuncture. As of July 2024, all her licenses are in INACTIVE or LAPSED status. See website for more details.

In this episode, we're discussing Collaboration!

This is part 3 of 5. The next two episodes are more about Collaboration from the same conversation with my co-host. I'm not sure yet what the next topic will be because I've got several lined up. The Co-Host is Kiki and you can find her work here: Instagram: @heretic.homestead TikTok @heretichomestead And now YouTube @heretichomestead9896 !

Sections

• 0:00:00 Intro
• 0:01:13 Introduction Chat
• 0:09:18 Content Warnings
  • Content warnings for Parts 1 2 and 3 of the Collaboration episodes: To explain what it feels like to be in a non-collaborative relationship, I and my co-host describe distressing psychological experiences such as hypervigilant anxiety, ruminative and psychogenic insomnia, "barrage of rhetorical convincing," intrusive thoughts that involve interpersonal violence, homicidal ideation, suicidal ideation, destruction of institutions; losing supportive relationships and becoming isolated
  • Content warnings for Part 1: I mention systemic support that protects police violence and racial bias, from the hypothetical point of view of a person who has experienced the violence. I mention parental neglect; I also obliquely mention how there is a very specific and not fully accurate set of conditions for people to be believed about experiencing intimate partner violence.
• 0:10:46 Grounding Prayer
• 0:11:54 Kiki's Intro
• 0:12:48 Review of Warm Empathy and Cold Empathy and why I link this with Collaboration
• 0:14:15 Starting to talk about Collaboration and how I define it
• 0:15:25 Interjection: "Over a sustained period of time"
• 0:15:54 Versus Consensus or Agreement which I am less interested in
• 0:21:43 Goal of Consensus presumes that Collaboration is present but it is a separate thing and may not be present. A "consensus" can be actually a unilaterally beneficial thing where one party gave up everything but both parties "agree" to the outcome.
• 0:23:41 When collaboration is working because there is a drive towards empathy underpinning it; it includes room to falter and repair and there are future opportunities for growth and needs to be met and to build trust and reduce distress
• 0:27:24 Why I Chose Collaboration as the Pair to Empathy and What it feels like to be in a non-collaborative relationship
• 0:29:59 Intrusive thoughts Interjection
• 0:31:45 Interjection about Suicidal Ideation - Nationwide Crisis Line is 9-8-8
• 0:35:15 The Invisibility Shield over the most distressing Non-Collaborative Relationship
• 0:37:59 What years of tiny, individually dismissed instances of having your needs-wants-desires-preferences not cared about adds up to crushing dehumanization aka be nice to your friends who just broke up or estranged from someone
• 0:41:09 The Barage of Rhetorical Convincing aka How to have 18+ justifications for existing, moving, breathing, speaking, and maybe wanting something sometime ever
• 0:42:53 Hypervigilant Anxiety which can lead to intrusive thoughts, obsessive and ruminative thinking, and compulsions
• 0:46:16 Vigilant anxiety during the day leads to rumination insomnia at night which can turn into anxiety about sleep loss which worsens anxiety and sleep dep makes you under-resourced
• 0:47:40 Outro, Credits, and Disclaimer

References mentioned in the show can be found in show-notes:

This is Under the Umbra: Using Empathy and Collaboration to Navigate a World of Shadows. In each episode, Electra and the co-hosts explore ways to think about and plan for difficult relationships with people and systems in a way that stays grounded in values and centers community. I invite you to try out focusing on Empathy and Collaboration as a realistic and compassionate model for interpersonal interactions. If you find yourself Under the Umbra, let's find our way back to the light.

Find the show's home at UnderTheUmbra.Info

Support the show via Patreon.com/UnderTheUmbraPodcast (link updated 6/1/2023)

This show is brought to you by Bridge to Becoming, LLC. This podcast was created, recorded, edited and produced by me, Electra, and brought to you by Bridge to Becoming LLC. The show is supported by "Responsive" Patrons: Ellery and KC, as well as several more on the Structured and Unscripted levels! Thank you so much for your support! Music is by SoulProdMusic on Pixabay and used with permission. Show art is by Lo Carter, 2023. Subtitle selected by Vera Alcorn!

NOTE: When this episode was recorded, Electra still had an active license to practice acupuncture. As of July 2024, all her licenses are in INACTIVE or LAPSED status. See website for more details.

In this episode, we're discussing Empathy!

This is part 2 of 5. The next episodes will be about Collaboration, and you can listen to episode 02 for the intro to warm and cold empathy as a combination of abilities.

The Co-Host is Kiki and you can find her work here: Instagram: @heretic.homestead and TikTok @heretichomestead

In this episode, we're discussing Empathy!

This is part 2 of 5. The next episodes will be about Collaboration, and you can listen to episode 02 for the intro to warm and cold empathy as a combination of abilities.

The Co-Host is Kiki and you can find her work here: Instagram: @heretic.homestead and TikTok @heretichomestead

Sections

• 0:00:00 Intro
• 0:01:06 Resources to go deeper, resources mentioned in the show
• 0:01:26 Rethinking Narcissism by Dr. Craig Malkin (Libro.FM link) (Bookshop.org link)
• 0:02:40 What Happened to You? by Dr. Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey (Libro.fm link) (Bookshop.org link)
• 0:03:13 This is Criminal Podcast Episode 51 Money Tree (and also the sister podcast This Is Love)
• 0:03:36 Schema Therapy and DBT/Dialectical Behavior Therapy
• 0:05:09 Upcoming show summary: People who understand that warm empathy takes effort for some folks in their community can offer support for the process by helping to get them resources or assisting them in hacking the outcome of warm empathy, but providing support to people who have a hard time thinking of others' needs can also take energy and can be a cause of harm
• 0:05:48 But before the show starts, I have to soothe how I lie awake at night asking myself, Why Did I Say That? Manipulation. Caring. Limited Domain and Comparison doesn't have to be a value judgment.
• 0:12:42 OMG did I mention I talk a lot? anyway... Transition into the show
• 0:13:04 Insight and Empathy? Is it too scary to look in an insight mirror when you think you're an alien? Does having insight mean you are no longer challenged?
• 0:18:55 Azula from AtLAB and acceptance of labels of "wrongness" versus tolerating the self-interrogation and big feelings and getting through fatigue needed for interpersonal growth.
• 0:22:37 The Hope of this entire podcast, Under the Umbra, is that if we - societally- can recognize empathy-challenged and non-collaborative behaviors and underresourced people/situations, then many people can intervene. Harm-reduction as the Ethic/Value.
• 0:26:28 Someone, call 9-1-1 and help this person think of others' wellbeing! Wait, who is Someone? Is Someone the traumatized person? Or can Someone be a person with fewer stakes?
• 0:29:28 There is no requirement to turn the other cheek if it means you're cheek is slapped over and over again. If you have resources, step up. But if you have the spidey-sense Trauma-Vision recognition because your own trauma is re-activated, then you can tap out.
• 0:32:47 Another source of resource is when you have trauma-vision but it isn't your trauma, so you can "cross-train" and have more capacity to provide accommodations.
• 0:36:00 It's possible to create safe environment to help folks with low warm empathy to bring it forth or find a workaround.
• 0:36:54 Step 1 - Have words for things; Step 2 - See when it's happening; Step 3 - Tally resources; Step 3.5 - s it my job? then do the job, and if not? refer or tap out; Step 4 - Continue to analyze steps 1-4
• 0:37:28 Some empathy-challenged non-collaborative situations we cannot just escape (e.g. white supremacy) so what tools do we have to Survive while calling out and then undermining/transforming that system, instead?
• 0:38:11 final thoughts, and teaser for Collaboration
• 0:38:48 Outro and credits

This is Under the Umbra: Using Empathy and Collaboration to Navigate a World of Shadows. In each episode, Electra and the co-hosts explore ways to think about and plan for difficult relationships with people and systems in a way that stays grounded in values and centers community. I invite you to try out focusing on Empathy and Collaboration as a realistic and compassionate model for interpersonal interactions. If you find yourself Under the Umbra, let's find our way back to the light.

Find the show's home at Under The Umbra . Info

Support the show via Patreon.com

This podcast was created, recorded, edited and produced by me, Electra, and brought to you by Bridge to Becoming LLC. The show is supported by "Responsive" Patrons: E.S. and KC.C. as well as several more on the Structured and Unscripted levels! Thank you so much for your support! Music is by SoulProdMusic on Pixabay and used with permission. Show art is by Lo Carter, 2023. Subtitle crafted by Vera Alcorn!

This is Under the Umbra: Using Empathy and Collaboration to Navigate a World of Shadows. In each episode, Electra and the co-hosts explore ways to think about and plan for difficult relationships with people and systems in a way that stays grounded in values and centers community. I invite you to try out focusing on Empathy and Collaboration as a realistic and compassionate model for interpersonal interactions. If you find yourself Under the Umbra, let's find our way back to the light.

NOTE: When this episode was recorded, Electra still had an active license to practice acupuncture. As of July 2024, all her licenses are in INACTIVE or LAPSED status. See website for more details.

In this episode, we're discussing Empathy!

This is part 1 of 4. The next episode will be more about Empathy, and then we'll have 2 episodes about Collaboration.

The Co-Host is Kiki and you can find her work here: Instagram: @heretic.homestead and TikTok @heretichomestead

Sections

- Show Intro- Intro essay with content warnings for the whole show, and a TL;DListen for this 4-part series. - Trigger warnings for talking about Empathy and Collaboration challenges - Links to other discussions of warm (emotional, affective) and cold (cognitive, dark) empathy - TL;DListen summary of Empathy Parts 1 and 2 and Clickbait for Collaboration Parts 1 and 2 - OMG I talk a lot! Will this change? Maybe. On with the conversation! - Intro to Kiki! - Grounding Prayer and Intentions - "Empathy" is a stack of neurological functions that we can have developmental or situational (phasic) strengths or challenges with, and when we investigate the stack of things that build it up, we can see how we can get challenged. - Empathy Challenged - more specific detail - what makes up empathy? Includes Mirror Neurons, Theory of Mind (not mentioned but included: memory of our own emotional and body state) - Warm Empathy involves Caring - as in, I have lovingkindness towards you, and also, I have desires about outcomes in this situation - Warm Empathy linked to "Conscience" as well as minimally prompted felt-sense of shame and guilt about having harmed others - Cold empathy is "cognitive" but still subconscious, and has many of the same actions, but has less of the embodied "drive" that prods action. - More about Cold Empathy and pattern recognition for where you fit into society and sorting out what the rules are, which includes Salience as in Important, Relevant, Significant, Noteworthy. - Digression about the words Good and Bad and why I prefer Pro-Social versus Self-Oriented or Survival-Oriented; because that makes it hard to describe harm and patterns of harm, and how to set up systems of incentives for pro-social and harm-reduction behavior - Thought exercise to develop empathy for people behaving Empathy-Challenged because of being Under Resourced - Choosing "Empathy" as a concept to evaluate and plan for interpersonal and systems interactions, and how being Empathy-Challenged can trigger "personality disorder" levels of difficulty in flexibility in how one responds to stress (also, my cat is loving on the microphone). - Outro and Credits - To Be Continued in Part 2

References mentioned in the show:

Autism In Heels by Jennifer Cook O'Toole at Libro.FM and Bookshop.com (These partially affiliate links.)

@livedexperienceeducator clip about perspectives on empathy

@NarcJester Instagram post about types of empathy and kindness with low empathy post

Find the show's home at UnderTheUmbra.Info

Support the show via Patreon.com

This podcast was created, recorded, edited and produced by me, Electra, and brought to you by Bridge to Becoming LLC. The show is supported by "Responsive" Patrons: E.S. and KC.C. as well as several more on the Structured and Unscripted levels! Thank you so much for your support! Music is by SoulProdMusic on Pixabay and used with permission. Show art is by Lo Carter, 2023. Subtitle crafted by Vera!

This is Under the Umbra: Using Empathy and Collaboration to Navigate a World of Shadows. In each episode, Electra and the co-hosts explore ways to think about and plan for difficult relationships with people and systems in a way that stays grounded in values and centers community. I invite you to try out focusing on Empathy and Collaboration as a realistic and compassionate model for interpersonal interactions. If you find yourself Under the Umbra, let's find our way back to the light.

NOTE: When this episode was recorded, Electra still had an active license to practice acupuncture. As of July 2024, all her licenses are in INACTIVE or LAPSED status. See website for more details.

In this episode, we're discussing the reason for the show, the meaning of the name, and a bit of introduction of the values and identity of the host.

Sections

- Intro - Descriptions, Depictions, and a New Model for describing and planning for challenging behaviors and systems - Total Solar Eclipse as a metaphor for challenging relationships and institutions - The values that support the show - The intersectional identities of the host - Electra - Outro and Credits - Disclaimer - Farewell until next time

Find the show's home at UnderTheUmbra.info

Support the show via Patreon.com/UnderTheUmbraPodcast (Link updated 6/1/2023)

This show is brought to you by Bridge to Becoming, LLC. Music is by SoulProdMusic and used with permission. Under the Umbra Podcast logo is by Lo Carter.