Unholy: Two Jews on the News
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Unholy: Two Jews on the News episodes

  • Dr. Cochav Elkayam-Levy On the sexual violence of October 7

    Two and a half years after October 7th, the Civil Commission on October 7th Crimes by Hamas Against Women and Children has published its comprehensive report — 300 pages of meticulously corroborated evidence documenting what was done to women, men, children, and hostages on that day and in captivity since. This week, Yonit and Jonathan speak with Dr. Cochav Elkayam-Levy, the founder and chair of the Commission, 2024 Israel Prize laureate, and expert in international law and human rights — the woman who spent more than two years immersed in 10,000 photographs and videos and 430 testimonies so the world could not look away.

    They discuss what the evidence reveals about the scale and calculated nature of the atrocities, why so many feminist organisations around the world fell silent, the new legal concept of “kinocide” that the Commission had to coin because no existing term could capture what had happened to families — and what it means that the person who stared deepest into this abyss still believes in peace.

    Watch us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpNOrhqCJ6E

    00:00 Introduction

    00:43 The scale and scope of the evidence

    02:55 The 13 documented patterns of abuse

    06:18 What Hamas intended — terrorizing a nation for generations

    09:15 How the evidence points to deliberate strategy, not random violence

    10:50 Coining “kinocide” — when existing legal language wasn’t enough

    14:21 Destroying family bonds: the most intimate atrocities

    16:26 Gathering evidence when so much was destroyed and victims were silenced

    19:39 Institutional denial — UN Women, Judith Butler, and feminist silence

    22:30 Why colleagues looked away: antisemitism and dehumanization

    24:38 The report as legal and historical document

    27:46 The New York Times report and the question of diversion

    31:07 The personal toll — two and a half years immersed in the evidence

    34:15 Can this wound ever heal?

    35:21 After everything: still a believer in peace

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    Yonit Levi

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    Jonathan Freedland

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    41 min
  • Bibi's secret visit, Israeli election timetable - and a veteran mensch

    Yonit and Jonathan discuss a week brimming with unresolved questions. Did Benjamin Netanyahu really travel to the UAE during the war with Iran? Why would he leak it now, and what led the UAE to issue such a quick denial? After a trip to China, where is Donald Trump heading on Iran?

    And inside Israel, as the political drama intensified with United Torah Judaism threatening to break ranks with the coalition over the draft bill's failure, could elections be held in September? And what role could be played by a possible plea bargain for Netanyahu?

    Finally, there’s a crowded field for our mensch award this week – who will come out in front: a 100 year old international treasure or a newborn baby?

    Watch us on YouTube: https://youtu.be/7QkyKrD0Km0?si=LrarQpAPjOBhB2WS

     

    David Attenborough Tribute: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DYFyK6boqC2/

     

    ⏱ CHAPTERS:

    [00:00] Intro — Netanyahu, Trump, and the week in news

    [00:43] Yonit's book in Hebrew — "Don't Feed the Lion" lands in Israel

    [05:13] Jonathan's Jewish tour of Porto — and the cross that means Jewish house

    [09:29] Netanyahu's secret UAE visit — what really happened

    [13:10] The UAE denial — implausible deniability explained

    [15:10] Iran ceasefire suspended animation — everyone preparing for the next round

    [16:01] Trump in China — could Beijing unlock the Iran deal?

    [17:20] Lebanon vs. Iran at the UN — the embryo of a new Middle East

    [20:13] Israeli elections — United Torah Judaism breaks with Netanyahu

    [22:36] Will Netanyahu even run? The plea deal question

    [24:10] Western Wall bill — criminalizing non-orthodox practice

    [27:15] Gaza: Hamas not disarming, humanitarian aid down 37%

    [33:38] Nick Kristof's NYT piece — the controversy explained

    [40:40] Chutzpah: Miki Zohar blames October 7th on Bennett-Lapid

    [43:02] Mensch: Tom Holland on antisemitism

    [44:20] Mensch: David Attenborough turns 100

    [46:48] Mensch: Abe Foxman, the last Jewish pope

    [47:30] Baby Aviv — Unholy's first baby 🎉

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    49 min
  • The Future is Peace - with Maoz Inon and Aziz Abu Sarah

    Maoz Inon lost his parents on October 7th. They were in their safe room, 200 meters from the Gaza border wall, when Hamas came. Aziz Abu Sarah lost his brother — the person who raised him — after he was tortured in an Israeli prison during the First Intifada. Two days after October 7th, Aziz wrote Maoz a letter. Maoz wrote back. That exchange became a friendship, a journey across the Holy Land, and now a New York Times bestselling book: "The Future Is Peace."

    This is not a polemic. It is not a policy paper. It is an invitation — to sit with grief that belongs to both sides, to doubt the narratives handed to you, and to imagine that the conflict will end. Because, as Maoz says, it will. The only question is when and how many more lives are lost before it does.

    Yonit and Jonathan talk with them about Hamas, religious extremism, on what peace would actually look like, on whether Israelis have any reason to trust again. 

     

    Watch on Youtube: https://youtu.be/0nJ3q4kvVPs

    ⏱ CHAPTERS:

    [00:00] Intro — who are Aziz and Maoz?

    [00:47] Maoz: the last phone call with his parents on October 7th

    [02:57] Aziz: losing a brother who was his parent

    [04:34] The kind of people Maoz's parents were

    [08:12] Aziz reaches out — what the letter said

    [09:47] Why Aziz wanted to learn Hebrew

    [14:23] Are they the minority? How do you make peace mainstream?

    [16:36] What would peace actually look like?

    [20:18] Yonit pushes: what about Hamas, what about religion?

    [24:44] The travelogue — hospitals, holy sites, and shared grief

    [26:38] Do Israelis and Palestinians have to give up their narratives?

    [33:27] What do Aziz and Maoz still disagree on?

    [38:48] Closing — the book, the journey, the invitation

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    Yonit Levi

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    Jonathan Freedland

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    41 min
  • Israel Election whispers, Iran Negotiations and "Lashon Hara, Babe"

    The Iran war may be over — or it may not. In the space of a few hours this week, Washington ordered warships into the Strait of Hormuz, paused the operation, threatened to resume bombing at higher intensity, and then declared peace was near. 

    Yonit and Jonathan cut through the chaos — and ask the question the ceasefire deal still hasn't answered: what happened to Iran's nuclear stockpile? 

    Also this week: Bezalel Smotrich calls October 7th "a tactical failure" and says including Arab parties in government would be a thousand times worse. Gadi Eisenkot and former Shin Bet chief Yoram Cohen join forces. Netanyahu's plea deal murmurs get louder. The UK goes to the polls with antisemitism front and center. And the Chutzpah and Mensch awards both go to the same unlikely figure: Nick Cave, who told a hostile fan to go F himself — and blamed his wife's absence.

    Watch us on Youtube: https://youtu.be/R-2p4tL6e7E


    [00:00] Intro — Jewish American Heritage Month

    [06:54] Iran ceasefire chaos — what is Washington actually doing? 

    [10:14] The nuclear question the deal still hasn't answered 

    [15:21] Israeli politics: Bennett-Lapid merger recap 

    [17:43] Eisenkot + Yoram Cohen join forces 

    [21:10] Smotrich calls October 7th a "tactical failure" 

    [26:46] Netanyahu: plea deal or Saudi peace card? 

    [31:05] UK local elections — Jews as political football [37:05] Chutzpah & Mensch: Nick Cave vs. Lee from Bournemouth [41:10] Ted Turner — a different kind of media owner

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    Yonit Levi

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    43 min
  • Iran War: What Comes Next - with Dr Suzanne Maloney

    Forty days of war with Iran. Four weeks of an uneasy ceasefire. And one verdict that nobody in Washington wants to say out loud: the Islamic Republic came out of this stronger.

    Dr. Suzanne Maloney, Vice President of the Brookings Institution's foreign policy program and one of America's most trusted voices on Iran, joins Yonit and Jonathan as US warships attempt to escort vessels through a Strait of Hormuz that Iran still effectively controls. They get into whether the ceasefire can hold, why the nuclear threat was never really addressed, who is actually making decisions inside Tehran now that the supreme leader is gone, and what a realistic deal — if one exists — might look like.

    Watch on Youtube: https://youtu.be/D_P_lca1OzQ

    Unholy Conversations drops every Tuesday.

    Listen to the regular episode on Friday to get the full Two Jews on the News Experience

     

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    Yonit Levi

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    42 min
  • Stabbings in London, a political marriage in Israel

    As stabbing against Jews in Golders Green rises up, again, the question of security of Jewish communities around the world,  Israel starts the countdown: 6 months to the elections. Yonit and Jonathan discuss the Golders Green knife attack and the wave of antisemitism hitting Britain since October 7th; the Bennett–Lapid merger and what it means for Israel's October elections; whether the Iran–Israel war is on pause or simply reloading; Jake Sullivan's bombshell statement on arms sales to Israel; and — in the awards — Israeli police cutting a Palestinian flag from a Jewish man's kippah, and King Charles delivering a Magna Carta reminder to Congress that Democrats jumped to their feet for. 

    Watch us on youtube: https://youtu.be/tCqzaU-DlPM

    This week on Unholy Conversations - Howard Jacobson: https://youtu.be/aB-eNbxb41w

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    47 min
  • Howard Jacobson - Unholy Conversations

    Howard Jacobson has screamed "liar" at the BBC, lost friends over a newspaper article, and started asking his wife whether it's still safe to live in London. Now he's written a novel about all of it.

    *Howl* is the story of Ferdinand Draxler — Jewish headmaster, reluctant marcher, man on the edge — who watches the world he believed in applaud the October 7th massacre and descends into a rage that may or may not be madness. Jacobson says he borrowed quite a lot from the last two years of his life.

    In this Unholy Conversations episode, Jacobson talks with Yonit and Jonathan about the ungovernable anger behind the novel, why he chose comedy as the only honest vehicle for it, the friends who wrote accusing him of celebrating Palestinian deaths, the Manchester synagogue where he was bar mitzvahed and which was attacked on Yom Kippur, and the question he can't shake: what would we have done in Berlin in 1932?

     

    Watch it on Youtube: https://youtu.be/aB-eNbxb41w

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    51 min
  • Independence, food and a response to Ezra Klein - with special guest Adeena Sussman

    Watch us on YouTube: https://youtu.be/1RBYWVXGom0

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    Pre-order "Zariz" by Adeena Sussman: https://www.adeenasussman.com/zariz

    Israel's 78th Independence Day arrives in the shadow of a three-year war — and a nation more divided than ever. As US-Iran talks stall and the Lebanon ceasefire holds by a thread, Yonit and Jonathan take stock of where Israel stands: from the parallel ceremonies splitting the country, to Rahm Emanuel's seismic break from past support for Israeli military aid, to Ezra Klein's "one state reality" argument — and why Yonit thinks it misses half the picture.

    Then: a joyful detour. Adeena Sussman, author of the forthcoming Zariz: 100 Easy, Breezy, Tel Aviv-y Recipes, joins to talk about cooking through a war, the fusion of Jewish and Israeli identity on the plate, and why every pot of Sabbath stew is a political act.

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    1 hr 23 min
  • Rachel Goldberg-Polin - Unholy Conversations

    Watch us on Youtube: https://youtu.be/HFowIpBxqKs 

    Rachel Goldberg-Polin has stood before the UN, met with presidents, and worn a number on her chest every single day until there were no more hostages in Hamas captivity. Now, months after Hersh was murderd, she sat down and wrote a book.

    When We See You Again is not a hostage story and not a political reckoning. It is, as Rachel describes it, a painful love story — a grief memoir written "with one finger from underneath a truck," with no distance, no perspective, and no pretense that any of that is coming soon.

    In this conversation with Yonit and Jonathan, Rachel talks about the moment a released hostage told her Hersh had heard her voice in captivity, why she refused to name the officials who promised and delivered nothing, the 87 pages she cut and called "the suitcase," and how Hersh's memory will become a "revolution for go.”

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    45 min
  • Lebanon ceasefire, Senate Showdown, Orban out

    Watch us on Youtube: https://youtu.be/1GIuMFYYX1E

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    As Israel marks one week out of 40 days of missiles from Iran, Yonit and Jonathan take apart the week's impossible contradictions: Netanyahu delivering a triumphalist Yom HaShoah speech while 400 kilograms of enriched uranium remain intact in Iran; a fragile Lebanon ceasefire that almost no one trusts; 40 Democratic senators voting against arms transfers; and Italy's far-right prime minister — until now Israel's last ally in Europe — quietly moving toward the exit.

    They also clock a historic election in Hungary, what Orban's fall means for the Israeli opposition, and whether Gadi Eisenkot is the figure who finally changes the picture.

     

    CHAPTERS: [00:00] Intro

     [02:30] Two kinds of sirens — explaining Yom HaShoah to kids during active war 

    [05:00] Yom HaShoah: the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and why Israel chose this date 

    [06:00] The war breakfast menu — 40 days and no off switch 

    [08:44] Iran ceasefire: fragile, murky, and far from over 

    [14:42] Netanyahu's Holocaust Day speech — and what it got wrong 

    [20:47] Israeli elections: Eisenkot, Bennett, and the Orban lesson from Hungary

     [27:00] Democrats break with Israel: Slotkin, 40 Senate votes, and who lost America 

    [33:45] Italy's Meloni shifts — even the far-right is moving 

    [40:41] Chutzpah Award: JD Vance tells the Pope to be careful about theology 

    [43:30] Mensch Award: Parents Circle joint Israeli-Palestinian memorial ceremony

     

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    Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/unholypod.bsky.social

    🎧 LISTEN TO UNHOLY

    Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/il/podcast/unholy-two-jews-on-the-news/id1548441108

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2m2UnLfiAyOehtF1bsv98W

    🎙️ THE HOSTS

    Yonit Levi

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yonitleviofficial/

    X: https://x.com/LeviYonit

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yonit-levi/

    Jonathan Freedland

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathanfreedland/

    Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/jonathanfreedland.bsky.social

    📩 Contact: [email protected]

    🔗 All links: https://linktr.ee/unholypod


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    42 min

About Unholy: Two Jews on the News

From the publisher's feed

Yonit Levi of Israel's Channel 12 News and Jonathan Freedland of The Guardian are two of the most prominent journalists in the world today. They are also Jews. Each week, join what MSNBC's Rachel Maddow calls "two great, smart smart smart hosts" as they dissect and debate current events shaping Israel, Jewish life - and the wider world.

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