Melissa Perri is a champion for product management who’s built her business around helping others understand it. She now teaches product thinking for product management to all types of companies and excels at experimenting small and fast for big results. Unlearning Business Analysis and relearning Product Management.

Starting out, Melissa had no idea what she wanted to do but she knew she wanted to work with people, code and design together. After passing on Wall Street and developer jobs, Melissa found her first gig as a business analyst at Capital IQ. After numerous roles trailing developing and business analyst, Melissa landed at Open Sky, which served as a pivotal moment in her professional life. She discovered the term that truly represented what she was doing—product management. Melissa’s manager at Open Sky pushed her into teaching her personal type of product management thinking. This led to successful talks and workshops, and eventually, consulting. However, the employees she worked with weren’t allowed to execute what she was teaching, so she taught her way up to the C Suite, innovating product management into product transformation.

Recognizing and solving problems. One skill that sets Melissa apart is her natural ability to recognize, address, and fix problems within organizations. Her mantra is ‘what’s the bigger problem?’ and she follows it to the source. Melissa shares a story about working at a startup and how she had to unlearn everything that had made her successful before. It started with karaoke in Nashville and ended up with Scrum. Melissa’s next unlearning moment came after she and her product team found major success working together to figure out how to ship products sooner. They were more productive than ever before, but that came to a screeching halt when no one used a product she and her team developed. After a weekend conference for startups, Melissa was inspired and began to experiment more freely. She shares the story of how she overcame her fear of failure that enabled her to breakthrough.

How Melissa experiments. One of the keys to Melissa’s experimentation strategies is to implement small changes that can be iterated quickly. It all comes down to this: How do I learn a little more about what works and what doesn’t? She reveals a huge mistake that many organizations make when they consider an experiment ‘one and done.’ Instead, she recommends starting with the vision and the outcome, taking the next small step that will lead you to your vision, and the importance of learning as you go. This strategy isn’t fiction, as Melissa shows how she used it to launch her own rapid scaling business of today.

Innovating the product management industry. The product management field as a whole is still quite immature and Melissa believes there is much that can be learned. She speaks in terms of two types of companies: those who have scaled through people growth, and those that scale using software. For both types, the cycle of unlearning must begin in the C Suite. Melissa explains why product thinking is the critical component that ties everything together. And the question these companies need to ask is “How do we evolve our businesses to embrace product thinking for scaling product management?”

Resources for Melissa

Website | LinkedIn | Product Institute | Escaping The Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value

Kent Beck is a third-generation geek. His grandfather was a radio geek, his father, an electrical engineer, moved to Silicon Valley in the 60s, and Kent and his father built their first personal computer together. He’s the creator of Extreme Programming, alphabetically the first signer of the Agile Manifesto and most recently helped Facebook scale their engineering organization from 700 to 5,000 people. Helping geeks feel safe in the world. This is one of Kent’s creeds, and as a third-generation geek, he’s looking to help the fourth generation.

As a mentor, he encourages younger programmers not to worry so much about finding their purpose from the beginning; instead, they need to get out there and try things, investing in new experiences, then connect the dots later. And feeling scared has two sides: some situations feel scarier than they need to feel, and others should feel scary. Knowing the difference – and how to handle each – is key. Kent shares the story of how, on a consulting gig, he realized that one small tweak—rearranging furniture—was more important than sharing his virtuoso programming skills. The corner office executives were literally sitting in the wrong place. This lesson, Kent recalls, was the beginning of the course change that led to Extreme Programming.

Extreme Programming. Kent started by considering a conventional belief: programmers couldn’t be trusted to test their own code. So he began experimenting with ways to challenge that belief with automated testing. But there was a deeper disruption Kent had in mind: programmers being responsible for their own mistakes and for fixing them in real time. He and Barry dive deeper into what that really means, and how it resulted in the Extreme Programming framework and more. The truth about courage and innovation Despite what people say to and about him, Kent doesn’t believe he’s courageous or innovative. Instead, he feels that he’s just doing what he senses needs to be done. Instead of over-analyzing and worrying if he’s got a perfectly formed idea, he starts trying it out. This is what Barry calls a ‘bias of action,’ and they dive into Kent’s way of behaving that makes him stand out. He has several habits to help him learn, and unlearn—fast; the first of those is to reverse and test any sentence that starts with ‘obviously.’ The second is to ask, “Can we try this?” Kent shares some practical applications of how he works and a few more habits and systems you can use in your own work. 

Cycling through ideas. Cycling through ideas as quickly as possible is another strategy Kent uses to innovate, and he shares how he tends to make small changes quickly to see how effective they’ll be. And more importantly, how easy they will be to roll back if they don’t work. He explains his latest concept of, Test & Commit || Revert. And Barry and Kent talk about how this principle applies not just to programming but can be used to launch new products, improve systems of work and entire organizations. What’s next for Kent? The impossible: he’s setting out to discover how to scale software collaboration beyond what people believe is sensible. Specifically, how to have software application with 100,000 engineerings, each deploying over a 1,000 deployments times a day.

Resources for Kent Beck: Website | LinkedIn | Twitter | Books on Amazon | Agile Manifesto | Test && Committ || Revert

Over 2,000 years ago, the Roman Empire rose to heights previously unseen, occupying more than 2 million square miles and ruling 20 percent of the world's population. Was that success due to visionary leaders? The prime location of the Tiber River? Engineering feats of roads and aqueducts? Maybe the laws of governance? The truth is, it was none of those. The Roman Empire's tactic of abandoning old practices in favor of new ones that worked better, often taken from those they conquered, is what gave them the flexibility to scale to such a massive level. My inspiration to create the Unlearn podcast came from what I frequently find to be a significant inhibitor when helping high-performance individuals get better—not the ability to learn new things but the inability to unlearn mindsets, behaviors, and methods that were once effective but now limit their success. In this podcast, we’ll dig deep into the practice of unlearning—what it is, why you should adopt it, and how you can leverage its tremendous power for yourself, your teams, and your organization. If you already feel you’ve unlearned before, great—I’ll teach you how to do it intentionally. If not, I’ll teach you to practice it deliberately. I’ll show you how to think big but start small, and why choosing courage over comfort can take you to places you never imagined possible.