Unlearn

What if machines could truly see and understand how we move? In this episode, I sit down with Sherry Shang, CEO and co-founder of Neural Lab, a company reimagining how we interact with technology through visual intelligence AI and gesture-based interfaces. 

Sherry’s journey from Intel technologist to startup founder began with a pivotal moment during the pandemic. What started as a side project in her living room became Neural Lab—a platform that turns basic webcams into powerful tools for gesture recognition, with no specialized hardware required.

Now, Neural Lab is unlocking new ways to deliver care, boost performance, and support human potential. From sterile surgery rooms to personalized rehab and coaching, touchless interaction is creating fresh possibilities for how we live and work with AI.

• Computer vision is gaining eyes: Sherry frames visual intelligence as the “missing sense” in AI—complementing language models with sight.
• Entrepreneurship is about timing: Sherry waited until her kids were older to build Neural Lab, choosing to innovate on her own terms.
• Gesture recognition is real—and ready: Neural Lab’s technology translates hand motions into universal commands with no need for specialized hardware.
• Human-centered design is essential: From recognizing intentional gestures to modeling real-world physicality, their design is inspired by how humans naturally interact.
• Healthcare leads the way: Use cases like sterile surgical environments are proving to be strong early markets for gesture control.

• Visual intelligence is the missing sense in AI: Sherry describes computer vision as adding "eyes" to AI, enabling machines to interpret physical space just as large language models allow them to process language.
• Entrepreneurship is about timing: Sherry chose to start Neural Lab once her children were older, aligning her professional ambitions with personal priorities.
• Gesture recognition is real—and ready: Their product works with any basic camera and translates 15 customizable gestures into commands for existing applications—no new hardware required.
• Designing for human nuance matters: Neural Lab focuses on distinguishing intentional from unintentional gestures using cues like eye gaze and body motion—mimicking how humans communicate.
• Healthcare is an urgent use case: Environments like surgery rooms benefit immediately from touchless interaction, helping maintain sterility and reduce unnecessary patient radiation.
• The interface is evolving beyond the mouse: Sherry sees gesture-based interaction as a more natural, immersive input method—moving us beyond traditional tools like keyboards and mice.
• Customer feedback drives innovation: From live demos to direct use-case discovery, Neural Lab adapts based on what real users need and how they react in context.
• AI can coach, not just compute: Sherry envisions AI-enabled coaching in sports, physical therapy, and even surgery—delivering expert guidance in real time, at scale.

00:00 – Episode Recap

Sherry Chang shares how her journey from Intel technologist to founder of Neural Lab began with a desire to create immersive, meaningful technology—and a pivotal moment during the pandemic when gesture-based interaction suddenly became essential.

02:14 – Guest Introduction: Sherry Chang

Barry introduces Sherry Chang, CEO of Neural Lab, former Intel leader, and innovator in computer vision and immersive interaction.

06:27 – Starting Up During the Pandemic

Sherry shares how the idea for Neural Lab came to life in her living room, driven by a vision for safer, touchless human-computer interaction.

09:30 – From Prototype to Minority Report

Barry recalls early demos that felt like science fiction—using just a webcam to control computers with hand gestures.

12:00 – Designing for Intentionality

Sherry explains the challenge of recognizing intentional vs. accidental gestures—and how eye-gaze and motion patterns help filter noise.

14:57 – Gesture as Input Device

They discuss how gestures open new interaction possibilities—from whiteboards to evaluating athletic movements.

18:26 – Finding Product-Market Fit in Healthcare

Sherry shares insights from radiology conferences—surgeons see immediate value in touchless interfaces for sterile environments.

22:21 – Reimagining Clinical Workflows

Gesture-based interaction eliminates the need for voice commands or assistants in the OR—streamlining workflow and reducing risks.

25:35 – The Bigger Picture

Barry reflects on the paradigm shift—freeing people from fixed tools like keyboards to interact with tech naturally.

28:56 – Unlocking Human Potential with AI Coaching

Sherry envisions AI coaches for physical therapy, sports, even surgery—democratizing access to expert feedback and improving outcomes.

33:11 – The AI Augmentation Mindset

Rather than replacing jobs, gesture-based AI enhances human performance and creativity, enabling new ways of working.

35:21 – Closing Reflections

Barry highlights the promise of technologies like Neural Lab—empowering people to interact more intuitively with machines and unlock new capabilities.

Q1. What is gesture recognition technology?

Gesture recognition uses computer vision to detect and interpret human body movements—like hand gestures—as input commands to control software or devices.

Q2. How does Neural Lab's gesture control work?

Neural Lab’s system uses any standard camera to detect 15 configurable gestures, translating them into commands compatible with most applications—no special hardware needed.

Q3. Is gesture recognition practical in healthcare?

Yes. Surgeons can use gestures to manipulate images mid-procedure without breaking sterility, improving workflow and reducing radiation exposure.

Q4. Can gesture-based AI help in physical therapy?

Absolutely. It enables real-time coaching, posture correction, and progress tracking for rehab patients—making at-home therapy more effective.

Q5. How is AI augmenting human potential with this tech?

By combining visual intelligence with feedback loops, gesture-based AI allows for elite-level coaching and real-time assistance in fields like sports, surgery, and workplace ergonomics.

• Neural Lab Official Site - https://neural-lab.com/
• Connect with Sherry on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherryschang/

Today’s guest is someone I first came across on the Irish People in VC list—and I’m really glad I reached out. Because it turns out Maureen Haverty has one of the most fascinating jobs you can imagine: helping build the future of space. As a Principal at Seraphim Space, the world’s leading space-focused VC firm, she invests globally in technologies pushing the boundaries of what’s possible —and shaping the future of space startup investment.

Maureen began her career in nuclear engineering, earning a PhD from the University of Manchester before making the leap into startups. At Apollo Fusion, she survived a hard pivot into space, ultimately becoming COO and steering the company through a $150M acquisition by Astra. That experience—what she calls a startup “baptism by fire”—now informs how she backs early-stage founders as both investor and board director. Her insights have been featured in The Times, and she’ll soon take the stage at Web Summit to speak on “Space as a Strategic Frontier.”

• “Build just enough”: Space startups win by testing early and often, not waiting for perfection.
• Kill fewer dreams: Rigor matters—but so does nurturing half-formed ideas.
• Get to space ASAP: In-orbit validation creates trust and unlocks massive growth.
• From Gantt charts to fast loops: High-performing teams test weekly, not quarterly.
• Customer conversations still matter: Even in space, talking to users beats assumptions.

• Why VC funding in space is shifting toward earlier MVPs.
• The hidden costs of acquisition for startup culture and speed.
• How Starship may reshape what's possible—size, cost, and assembly in orbit.
• The role of government contracts in fostering a competitive space ecosystem.

00:00 – Episode Recap

Maureen Haverty shares how balancing rigor with creativity helped her evolve from nuclear engineer to space startup COO to VC. The key? Learning when to test, when to build, and when to let wild ideas breathe.

01:35 – Guest Introduction: Maureen Haverty

Barry introduces Maureen Haverty, Principal at Seraphim Space and advocate for grounded rigor in an industry literally aiming for the stars.

03:35 – Learning When Not to Kill Ideas

Maureen reflects on being labeled a “dream killer” and how she transformed that mindset to foster innovation with constructive rigor.

07:34 – Applying Rigor Without Stifling Innovation

How Apollo used just-enough testing, internal prototyping, and diverse team strengths to build better, faster.

13:54 – Rethinking MVPs in Space Startups

Why even space companies now push to generate early revenue and test hardware pre-launch.

18:19 – Customers Want Something They Can See

Building a physical, testable product—even a crude one—outperforms pitch decks every time.

20:32 – The $70M Lesson of In-Space Testing

How one flight test flipped customer hesitation into a flood of contracts.

26:12 – Surviving the Shift from Prototype to Production

The real scaling challenge: maintaining culture and customer trust while redesigning for scale.

30:15 – The Hidden Power of Primes and Policy

Why space remains deeply shaped by government buyers—and how that’s changing with new VC-backed players.

35:33 – Starship and the Future of Space

Maureen shares what could shift when larger payloads, faster launch cadences, and orbital assembly become possible.

39:25 – Closing Reflections

Space is finally catching up to the urgency of its people. In an industry where “yesterday” is always the best time to start, speed is the differentiator.

1. What is Maureen Haverty known for?
2. Maureen Haverty is a Principal at Seraphim Space, the world’s leading venture capital firm focused on space technology. She’s also known for her leadership at Apollo Fusion, where she helped scale the company to a $150M acquisition by Astra.
3. What does Seraphim Space invest in?
4. Seraphim Space invests in early-stage space technology startups globally, backing innovations in satellites, launch systems, in-orbit services, and deep tech infrastructure critical to the future of space exploration.
5. What did Maureen Haverty learn from her time at Apollo Fusion?
6. Maureen learned the importance of balancing rigor with experimentation. Her experience taught her to support bold ideas without stifling them and to build “just enough” before validating with customers—especially critical in high-stakes industries like space hardware.
7. How do space startups approach product testing and market validation?
8. Unlike SaaS startups, space companies face high costs and long timelines. The most successful ones focus on testing early and often, getting hardware into orbit quickly, and talking to customers well before finalizing product designs.
9. Why is in-space testing so important for space companies?
10. Even with rigorous ground-based testing standards, nothing builds customer confidence like real in-orbit validation. Maureen shares how one space test led to $70M in contracts within weeks—proving that live demonstrations are a major unlock for credibility and growth.
11. What trends are shaping the future of the space industry?
12. Maureen highlights the shift toward faster iteration, more venture-backed growth (vs. acquisition), and the game-changing potential of SpaceX’s Starship, which could enable larger structures, faster launch cycles, and more ambitious projects in orbit.

• Maureen Haverty on LinkedIn
• Seraphim Space

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Back when I first worked with Jana Werner at Tesco Bank, I saw firsthand how a crisis could be a crucible for innovation and transformation. Her ability to unlock potential in even the most challenged teams was unforgettable. Now, teaming up with Phil Le-Brun—a transformational leader I came to know through his work at McDonald’s—they’ve co-authored The Octopus Organization, a guide for thriving in an age of continuous transformation.

In this episode, we go behind the scenes of their book and explore the anti-patterns that hold organizations back, the behaviors leaders must unlearn, and the mindset shifts required to succeed when change never stops. Whether you’re a CEO, change agent, or team lead, you’ll leave with small, actionable experiments to start evolving your organization—today.

• Unlearning blame-based leadership: Shifting focus from fixing people to fixing systems unlocks performance and trust.
• Spotting anti-patterns in everyday behavior: Habits like jargon, silos, and avoidance subtly block progress.
• Embracing uncertainty in leadership: Probabilistic thinking builds better decisions and psychological safety.
• Driving transformation through small experiments: Distributed action outperforms top-down mandates.
• Leading with curiosity in the age of AI: Execs must actively engage with tech to stay relevant and credible.
• 
  

• Behind the book: Why The Octopus Organization centers on 36 anti-patterns and how they uncovered them
• Real-world leadership stories: Lessons from Tesco Bank, McDonald’s, Amazon, and Ferrari
• Transformation fatigue is real: Overengineered change efforts often create fear and resistance
• Alignment breakdowns in leadership teams: Many transformations fail because leaders aren't truly on the same page
• Reframing performance: Asking “what did you stop doing” reveals deeper impact than traditional goals
• 
  

00:00 – Episode Recap

Jana Werner shares how she took over a struggling tech team, discovered their true strengths, and transformed their performance by rebuilding culture and trust. Phil Le-Brun describes the importance of creating a culture of trust in organizations, allowing people to test ideas and make a real difference.

02:46 – Guest Introduction: Jana Werner & Phil Le-Brun

Barry O'Reilly introduces guests Jana Werner and Phil Le-Brun, describing their collaboration during times of crisis at Tesco Bank, their leadership backgrounds, and their shared vision for adaptive, purpose-driven organizations as captured in their new book.

04:36 – Revitalizing a Demotivated Team at Tesco Bank

Jana Werner narrates how she took over a demotivated technology team, overcame her initial preconceptions, and transformed the group into a top-performing unit by changing culture, empowering individuals, and shifting organizational dynamics.

07:07 – Lessons from McDonald's: Balancing Centralization and Agility

Phil Le-Brun explains McDonald's transformation journey, the need to unify local and corporate efforts, and the financial impact of building trust and alignment.

10:16 – Learning from Industry Leaders

Phil recounts interviews with CEOs like Indra Nooyi and Benedetto Vigna, highlighting that true leadership requires humility, storytelling, and ongoing curiosity.

14:14 – Unlearning the Need for Certainty

Jana Werner discusses shifting away from needing all the answers and embracing uncertainty, drawing on insights from Annie Duke and other leaders.

21:30 – Small Changes, Big Impact

Jana introduces the book's structure around "anti-patterns" and advocates for making small, distributed changes rather than massive, top-down transformations.

26:29 – Leadership Alignment: Avoiding Transformation Pitfalls

Phil highlights the need for alignment among leadership teams and points out common failures in transformation projects due to lack of shared understanding.

29:09 – Becoming "Technology Teenagers"

Phil and Jana emphasize the importance of leaders learning to experiment and engage directly with new technologies, encouraging curiosity and hands-on learning with AI.

32:12 – Start Small and Experiment

Both authors encourage listeners to pick a tip from the book and try it right away—emphasizing the value of experimentation, feedback, and removing old practices to spark growth.

• Jana Werner on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/janawerner1/ 
• Phil Le-Brun on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillebrun/ 
• The Octopus Organization – Book by Jana Werner & Phil Le-Brun - https://www.amazon.com/Octopus-Organization-Thriving-Continuous-Transformation-ebook/dp/B0DRZ2MXBR 
• Related episode: Accelerating Transformation in Crisis – Tesco Bank Case Study - https://barryoreilly.com/explore/articles/accelerating-transformation/ 
• Amy Edmondson – Research on Psychological Safety - https://amycedmondson.com/psychological-safety/ 
• Annie Duke – Thinking in Bets - https://www.annieduke.com/books/ 
• Indra Nooyi – Leadership Insights - https://www.indranooyi.com/ 

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In this episode of The Unlearn Podcast, Barry O’Reilly is joined by Steve Elliott, a serial entrepreneur, product leader, and investor with two decades of experience advising high-growth companies. Steve is the founder of Dotwork, an AI-driven platform that connects strategy to execution, and co-founder of The Uncertainty Project, a community for product leaders focused on better decision-making.

He previously served as Head of Product at Atlassian, where he helped scale Jira Align after selling his company AgileCraft for $166M—earning recognition as a Fortune Best Small Business in America and a finalist for the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year. With five successful exits under his belt, Steve brings rare depth to the art of building and unbuilding what no longer serves.

In this conversation, Barry and Steve explore how to design for the messy reality of modern work, the role of unlearning in leadership, and how AI is redefining what it means to be a decisive company.

• From CTO to CEO – Why Steve transitioned from tech leader to founder and the personal growth that came with it.
• Scaling after acquisition – The emotional and strategic shifts required when your startup becomes part of a larger machine.
• Why strategy execution breaks – Most alignment tools assume order—Steve builds for complexity.
• Agentic AI in the enterprise – How Dotwork uses knowledge graphs and AI to surface insight in context, not just dashboards.
• Decisive companies – What it really means to help leaders make faster, more confident decisions.

• Unlearning the idea that startups are for the young—Steve didn’t found his first company until his 40s.
• How Dotwork is building a “context memory engine” for both executives and AI agents.
• The future of AI-native tools isn’t more interfaces—it’s less friction and smarter context delivery.
• Why the most valuable enterprise products aren’t flashy—they’re quiet, ambient, and deeply integrated.

00:00 – Episode Recap

Steve Elliott shares how each startup exit taught him something new—but also how returning to the founder’s seat means unlearning old assumptions. Now, with Dotwork, he’s not just building a tool—he’s rethinking how organizations make decisions in complexity.

01:45 – Guest Introduction: Steve Elliott

Barry introduces Steve Elliott, founder of AgileCraft (acquired by Atlassian) and CEO of Dotwork, with a track record of five successful exits and a deep focus on enterprise work management.

03:40 – Early career shifts

From a consulting career at PwC to software experiments that took off—how Steve found his way into entrepreneurship.

08:55 – From technologist to founder

The value of combining tech expertise with business empathy—and why startups offer unmatched learning opportunities.

11:05 – Unlearning post-acquisition mindsets

What Steve had to unlearn transitioning from CEO to leader within a larger company—and back again.

13:36 – Building tools for strategic decisions

Why enterprise tools fail to support real-time, strategic decisions—and how Steve is tackling the problem differently.

17:50 – The rise of agentic frameworks

How Dotwork is using knowledge graphs and agentic AI to reflect the dynamic, decentralized nature of modern organizations.

23:31 – Breaking through transformation fatigue

How Dotwork builds trust not through marketing, but by showing real, contextual results fast.

26:23 – Beyond dashboards: AI-native UX

Why true AI-native platforms don’t ask you to log in—they come to you with insight in the moment.

32:44 – Coaching execs on AI

Barry shares his experience coaching executives on AI—and why hands-on experimentation is the only path to mastery.

36:07 – Context engines for agents

Steve explains how Dotwork unintentionally became a context memory platform—crucial for the future of autonomous agents.

40:36 – Magic moments in enterprise UX

When engineering hasn’t seen the reports their software generates—because the platform is that intuitive.

43:17 – Closing Reflections

Steve reflects on the value of doing over theorizing—and the importance of staying close to the problem if you want to innovate meaningfully.

In this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, I sit down with Cass Pratt, Chief Human Resources Officer at Progyny, to explore how HR is evolving into a design discipline that blends human connection with AI-powered productivity. From building bots to boost employee experience to reshaping how we think about roles in an automated world, Cass shares an honest look at how she’s bringing people along on a transformation journey—with curiosity, experimentation, and heart.

We discuss her pivotal decision to say yes to opportunities beyond her comfort zone, the strategic shifts she's leading inside a fast-scaling company, and why the future of HR is about enhancing humanity, not replacing it. If you’re wondering what leadership looks like when AI meets empathy, this one’s for you.

• Unlearning expertise-dependence: Cass shifted from relying on experts to co-creating solutions with AI tools before engaging others.
• 
  
• AI as a force for elevation: At Progyny, AI is used to give employees time back, not take roles away—enabling deeper focus on human-centric work.
• 
  
• Low-code leadership: Cass, a self-described non-technical leader, built HR bots and reimagined policies through practical AI applications.
• 
  
• Scaling culture through consistency: AI chatbots improved response times, standardized answers, and gave insight into employee concerns.
• 
  
• Embedding experimentation: Teams are encouraged to ask, "What should I stop doing?"—sparking a culture of reinvention and initiative.
• 
  

• Progyny’s “Super Fans” initiative reframes AI gains as an opportunity to deepen customer and employee relationships.
• 
  
• Training is done in cohorts to build shared understanding and reduce AI anxiety.
• 
  
• Cross-functional collaboration with junior team members—like the intern who built the HR bot—shows how innovation can come from any level.
• 
  
• Cass uses AI to simplify and globalize complex frameworks like competency models, improving alignment across teams and geographies.
• 
  

00:00 – Episode Recap

Cassandra Pratt shares how embracing discomfort led her to leap into healthcare, build a transformative HR function, and lead with AI—not to eliminate roles, but to elevate people and amplify their impact.

02:37 – Guest Introduction: Cassandra Pratt

Barry introduces Cass Pratt, Chief People Officer at Progyny, a fertility and family-building benefits company scaling rapidly with a human-first, tech-empowered culture.

04:48 – Saying Yes to Growth

Cass reflects on a missed opportunity that taught her the cost of saying no—and set her on a path to jump into unknowns with conviction.

08:04 – Startup Lessons and Leadership Growth

From 50 to 850 employees, Cass shares what it means to grow with a company and embrace mistakes as part of the journey.

11:00 – Diving into AI Without a Tech Background

Despite lacking technical skills, Cass threw herself into generative AI—learning by doing and discovering intuitive ways to drive value.

13:10 – Unlearning the Expert Reflex

Cass rethinks her default of turning to experts first—instead starting with AI to shape stronger ideas and bring others in as collaborators.

15:13 – Redesigning Processes, Not Just Tools

AI opened up opportunities to rethink workflows from scratch, not just automate existing inefficiencies.

20:35 – Making AI Safe and Human

Cass shares how transparent messaging, training, and cultural reinforcement helps ease AI anxieties and keep the focus on people.

25:00 – Building the HR Bot with an Intern

An intern-built benefits chatbot improved response times, consistency, and surfaced new insights—highlighting the power of junior talent and experimentation.

28:41 – Simplifying Competency Models with AI

Cass uses AI to refine complex frameworks, making them scalable across geographies and easier for leaders to apply.

30:00 – Rethinking Work Through Elimination

By asking what should be stopped—not added—Cass surfaces high-leverage opportunities to transform HR workflows.

34:33 – The Two Extremes of HR and AI Adoption

Cass observes a divide: HR teams either lead AI transformation—or risk being the last to catch up.

40:45 – Cross-Functional Collaboration and Culture

AI transformation is a team sport—embedding HR into company-wide initiatives empowers better collaboration and outcomes.

43:38 – Freeing Up Time to Be Present

Cass highlights how AI helps reclaim time for the most human part of HR: being present, listening, and solving meaningful problems together.

• Progyny: https://www.progyny.com
• Connect with Cassandra Pratt: LinkedIn
• AI Executive Coaching by Barry: https://barryoreilly.com

• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/barryoreilly
• Website: barryoreilly.com
• Facebook: facebook.com/barryoreillyauthor
• Twitter/X: x.com/barryoreilly
• Instagram: instagram.com/barryoreilly

When most leaders think about transformation, they reach for tools and tactics. But real, lasting change doesn’t start with new methods—it starts with culture. In this episode, I sit down with Phil Gilbert, the former General Manager of Design at IBM, who led one of the boldest reinventions in corporate history. After selling his third startup to IBM in 2010, Phil was asked to transform how IBM’s teams worked using design thinking and agile. That effort reshaped the experience of over 400,000 employees and became the subject of a Harvard Business School case study, the documentary The Loop, and coverage in the New York Times and Fortune.

We explore how culture drives outcomes, why the team is the atomic unit of change, and how to design a leadership structure that earns trust and creates momentum. Phil brings sharp insight, rich stories, and practical frameworks drawn from a 45-year career spanning startups, scale-ups, and global enterprises. If you’re leading change—or trying to get others to believe in it—this conversation is your blueprint.

Phil Gilbert is best known for scaling IBM’s global design transformation. He was inducted into the New York Foundation for the Arts Hall of Fame in 2018 and named an Oklahoma Creativity Ambassador in 2019. Since retiring from IBM in 2022, Phil has focused on helping business and military leaders shift culture at scale to improve innovation and team performance.

• Culture is the system: Real transformation means rewiring people, practices, and places—not just teaching new skills.
• Teams are the atomic unit of change: Change doesn’t scale through individual mandates. It scales when cross-functional teams deliver new outcomes.
• Design scales empathy: Phil shares how design thinking isn’t just about aesthetics—it’s a tool for scaling understanding and improving systems.
• Transformation needs protection: Change teams need structural support and a leadership “shell” that shields them while engaging the broader org.
• Momentum beats mandates: Leaders can’t impose change—they must earn it by showing results, listening deeply, and integrating across silos.

• "Every day is a prototype": Phil’s mantra that gives teams permission to change, test, and learn continuously.
• The virus model of leadership: To spread new ways of working, Phil designed his leadership team like a virus—with spikes into HR, finance, comms, and IT.
• Designers aren’t the barrier—systems are: In companies with weak design reputations, the problem isn’t the designers. It’s the culture around them.
• Shadow IT kills transformation: Real progress happens when change leaders partner with CIOs—not work around them.
• Most AI efforts are missing the point: Phil argues that AI transformation fails when it focuses on individuals instead of improving team-level outcomes.

00:00 - Episode Recap

Barry O’Reilly recaps the episode’s theme, discussing leadership challenges, reclaiming strategic focus, and leveraging frameworks, executive habits, and AI to drive impactful business outcomes.

2:26 - Guest Introduction

Barry introduces Phil Gilbert, renowned for leading a major cultural transformation at IBM through human-centered design. He previews Phil’s new book, “Irresistible Change,” and sets expectations for a discussion on leadership, empathy, and executing change at scale.

3:21 - Official Start of Conversation

Phil Gilbert reflects on pivotal career moments, including his experience founding early startups, the challenge of driving adoption for new technologies, and discovering the power of empathy and design. He introduces his guiding philosophy, “every day is a prototype.”

9:15 - The Power of Prototyping and Embracing Change

Phil explains how prototyping and a willingness to challenge the status quo lead to organizational and personal growth. He shares his “every day is a prototype” mantra and stresses the role of openness in innovation.

13:48 - Culture as a Driver of Outcomes

Phil outlines his formula for driving real change, focusing on people, practices, and places. He discusses his use of journaling and intentional observation to systematically build curiosity and support for change in teams.

20:47 - Designing Transformation at Scale

Phil discusses the challenge of leading IBM’s company-wide design movement. He explains his strategy to reach and influence 400,000 employees and the importance of building a diverse leadership team to support transformative efforts.

31:29 - Practical Tactics for Organizational Change

Phil details the need to integrate HR, tooling, and communications into the transformation process, sharing stories about revamping career ladders and piloting new tools. He emphasizes collaboration and transparency with key stakeholders like HR and CIOs.

37:51 - Lessons for Modern AI Transformation

Phil and Barry examine current challenges with AI change efforts, arguing that teams—not just individuals—are the fundamental units for successful transformation. They discuss why team-level outcomes should guide measurement and strategy for adopting new technologies.

41:09 - Hopes and Irresistible Change for the Future

Phil shares his vision for the next wave of business transformation, especially regarding AI. Drawing inspiration from cloud computing’s impact, he hopes leaders will adopt principles that empower teams to drive industry-defining change.

• Phil Gilbert – Irresistible Change (book): Buy on Amazon
• Connect with Phil on LinkedIn: Phil Gilbert
• Barry’s blog on AI

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When it comes to product positioning, clarity isn’t just a communication tool—it’s a strategic advantage. In this episode, I sit down with Anthony Pierri, co-founder of FletchPMM, a product marketing consultancy that’s helped over 400 B2B software startups discover and sharpen their positioning. We explore how founders can unlearn generic marketing advice, clarify their message, and activate their strategy through one often-overlooked asset: their homepage.

Anthony brings practical frameworks, real-world stories, and a refreshing candor to a space that’s often muddled with jargon. This is a must-listen for any founder, PMM, or GTM leader tired of being misunderstood—and ready to focus.

FletchPMM is a product marketing consultancy that helps B2B tech startups nail their positioning and bring it to life through a purpose-built homepage. Alongside co-founder Rob Kaminski, he’s helped more than 400 companies craft focused, champion-centered messaging that converts.

• Clarity wins: Positioning isn’t about vision—it’s about specificity, segmentation, and telling your champion’s story.
• Unlearn the fluff: Ditch the vague benefits and generic promises. Customers need to know what you do and how it helps them.
• Focus = traction: Trying to be everything to everyone dilutes your impact. Specialization creates memorability and repeatability.
• Your homepage is your positioning: It’s the one asset every stakeholder sees—customers, investors, your team. Make it count.
• Position for the champion, not the budget holder: Focus your messaging on the person closest to the problem—not the executive who cuts the check.

• Positioning is pattern recognition: Anthony shares how lessons from church leadership and freelancing helped him recognize early signs of positioning misalignment—even before he had the language for it.
• Inbound scale comes from consistency, not creativity: With over 500 companies served, Fletch’s success has come from delivering one service, the same way, every time—not by chasing new ideas or tactics.
• Founders often confuse luck with repeatability: Anthony reveals how many early startup wins come from personal networks—and how this masks the real need for scalable positioning and segment focus.
• Mispositioning starts with the homepage: Anthony critiques vague, benefits-only messaging like “Make Yes Work”—demonstrating how the lack of a clear product reference point derails understanding and action.
• Repositioning is an organizational act: Referencing Klaviyo and Meta, Anthony shows how homepage messaging isn’t just about marketing—it forces internal alignment by making strategic bets visible to every team member.

00:00 – Episode Recap

Anthony Pierri shares how a seemingly minor contradiction in a church’s mission statement became his first exposure to a positioning problem—planting the seed for a career built around clarity.

01:30 – Guest Introduction: Anthony Pierri

Barry introduces Anthony, co-founder of FletchPMM, a consultancy that’s helped 400+ B2B software startups craft focused, conversion-driving homepages.

05:09 – The Real Cost of Doing Everything

Why trying to serve every persona or use case is the quickest way to stall traction—and how narrowing your focus builds momentum.

07:14 – Specialization is a Strategic Advantage

Anthony explains how one service, delivered one way, to one segment unlocked a scalable, inbound engine for Fletch.

11:42 – Sales Strategy or Sales Chaos?

The folly of hiring SDRs before narrowing your GTM focus—and why customer acquisition doesn’t scale without segment clarity.

14:03 – Champion-Centric Positioning

Don’t aim for the budget holder—speak to the person closest to the problem. They’ll become your internal advocate.

22:07 – How AI Will Impact Product Positioning

As software creation and discovery become more agent-driven, Anthony sees the same need for ultra-specific, capability-first messaging.

29:19 – Talking About Yourself Without Talking About Yourself

Positioning isn’t self-promotion—it’s about telling a compelling story that reflects your champion’s reality.

35:15 – The “Tell Me More” Effect

Great positioning doesn’t try to say everything. It just gets the right person to say, “Tell me more.”

38:17 – Your Homepage is Your Most Important Asset

The homepage isn’t just a lead gen tool—it’s the most visible alignment document your org has. Make it reflect your real strategy.

44:53 – Changing the Narrative at Scale

Anthony shares why embedding your positioning on the homepage is more powerful (and more visible) than internal decks ever will be.

46:35 – How to Structure a Homepage That Converts

Barry and Anthony unpack how to use messaging anchors, problem framing, and customer-centric storytelling to guide your homepage narrative.

• FletchPMM Website
• Anthony Pierri on LinkedIn
• April Dunford – Obviously Awesome
• Wynter – Message Testing

• LinkedIn
• Outlier Venture Partners
• Facebook
• Twitter/X
• Instagram

In today’s hyper-connected world, many of us are experiencing a paradox—more digital interactions, but deeper loneliness. In this episode of Unlearn, I sit down with Dr. Ben Rein, neuroscientist and author of Why Brains Need Friends, to unpack why human connection isn’t just emotional—it’s biological. From the neuroscience of loneliness to surprising acts of generosity in mice and minnows, we explore how your brain interprets social disconnection as a threat, and why a full calendar of Zoom calls doesn’t satisfy your social diet.

As someone who experienced this firsthand—working remotely, starting over in a new country—I share my own journey to unlearning the myth of self-sufficiency and redesigning my life to engineer real connection. This conversation is a call to rethink how we connect, show up for each other, and take our social health as seriously as sleep, diet, or exercise.

• Loneliness Is a Biological Threat: Your brain interprets social disconnection like hunger or pain—not just a mood, but a warning signal.
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• Small In-Person Moments Matter: Even brief, face-to-face interactions boost mood and cognitive function more than digital ones.
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• Isolation Damages the Brain: Chronic loneliness raises cortisol, shrinks memory centers, and can shorten your lifespan.
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• Introverts Still Need People: Social time benefits everyone—introverts just hit their saturation point sooner.
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• Generosity Is Hardwired: From rats to dolphins, the impulse to connect and give is deeply embedded in our biology.
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• Connection Requires Unlearning: Independence and solitude aren't always virtues—sometimes they’re survival myths in disguise.
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• Social prediction systems in the brain were scrambled by COVID—and many people still haven’t recalibrated.
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• Most people think they’re worse-than-average at socializing, which fuels avoidance and false self-judgment.
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• Digital tools remove the social cues—tone, expression, touch—that our brains need to feel emotionally nourished.
• 
  
• Empathy is not automatic—it’s biased and trainable, shaped by exposure to difference and intention.
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• Rebuilding community isn’t just good for you—it’s essential for physical, mental, and societal health.
• 
  

00:00 – Episode Recap

Ben Rein discusses the importance of socializing, likening it to sleep, diet, and exercise, and emphasizing its role in overall well-being.

02:07 – Guest Introduction: Ben Rein

Barry introduces Dr. Ben Rein, neuroscientist and author, and outlines the episode’s focus on the biological necessity of human connection.

03:43 – How COVID Broke Our Social Predictions

Ben shares his neuroscience background and explores how societal shifts and the pandemic disrupted the brain’s expectations for everyday interaction.

08:23 – Barry’s Story: “You Sound Lonely”

Barry recounts a personal moment of realization and how a friend’s observation pushed him to rebuild his social life with intention.

11:29 – Why We Miss the Signs of Loneliness

Ben explains why loneliness often goes undetected, how it manifests as stress, and why virtual connection isn’t enough.

16:44 – The Hard Work of Making Friends

Barry reflects on the discomfort of building new friendships as an adult—and why it’s worth the effort for mental and emotional health.

21:10 – The Neuroscience of Social Fear

Ben breaks down why we underestimate the value of interaction, how fear holds us back, and the courage it takes to engage.

25:33 – Designing for Connection

Barry shares how he now intentionally schedules social time as part of his weekly routine—and encourages others to do the same.

29:46 – Writing Lessons: Structure Matters

Ben opens up about his writing process and the hard-earned lesson of keeping a book focused on its core idea.

32:58 – Empathy is in Our Nature

Ben shares surprising studies showing kindness and empathy across the animal kingdom—and what humans can learn from them.

39:22 – Closing Reflections

Barry and Ben wrap with a call to action: prioritize connection, embrace kindness, and use what we know to better ourselves and others.

• Why Brains Need Friends by Dr. Ben Rein
• Dr. Ben Rein on LinkedIn
• Ben’s popular science content on Instagram and TikTok

• LinkedIn
• Personal Site
• Facebook
• Twitter
• Instagram

What happens when you stop treating HR as a back-office function and start designing it as a competitive advantage?

Theresa Cantwell, Strategic HR Consultant and Director at GSD HR Consulting, believes scaling a company shouldn't mean burning out your team—or yourself. With nearly two decades leading people strategy at companies like Microsoft, ThoughtWorks, and Equal Experts, Theresa has helped organizations across Europe and Asia grow not just fast, but gracefully.

In this episode, we dive into the most overlooked challenges founders face when they scale: losing visibility, clinging to control, and skipping the crucial step of designing people and culture systems that can actually support growth. From shadow planning and succession strategies to why success itself can be terrifying, Theresa shares powerful tools and real talk every startup leader needs to hear.

If you're moving past 20 employees and want to build a company that lasts—without losing what made it special—this conversation is your playbook.

• Start HR Strategy Early: Don’t wait for burnout or lawsuits—build people ops into your scaling strategy from day one.
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• Shadow Planning Is Essential: Prepare for the worst by confronting your team’s shadow behaviors and stress reactions before they sabotage growth.
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• Succession Planning Isn’t Personal: It's about scalability. Delegate early, document processes, and regularly revisit org design.
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• Growth Changes Everything: Founders need to let go to level up. What got you here won’t get you there.
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• AI in HR Is a Tool, Not a Fix: Automate the repetitive, but double down on building trust and strategic visibility.
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• HR should be the connective tissue of an organization—not the "issues and tissues" team.
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• Scaling gracefully requires confronting the emotional toll of growth, including fear of success.
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• Theresa shares how early experiences at Microsoft and ThoughtWorks shaped her belief in high-trust, high-agency cultures.
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• Executive coaching and intentional design can prevent burnout and boost retention.
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00:00 – Episode Recap

Theresa Cantwell unpacks the emotional complexity of growth—from the fear of success to the need for intentional HR design. With experience scaling organizations across continents, she shares how founders can build people-first cultures that thrive under pressure.

01:54 – Guest Introduction: Theresa Cantwell

Theresa is a strategic HR consultant and founder of GSD HR Consulting, with nearly two decades of experience building and scaling agile-aligned cultures in the tech and digital sectors.

04:43 – Pivotal Moment at Microsoft

Seeing a team she’d hired bonding over lunch sparked her transition from recruitment to building cultures that last.

06:28 – ThoughtWorks and Radical Culture Design

Barry reflects on his own onboarding experience and how Theresa helped him understand the unique culture of ThoughtWorks from day one.

09:33 – From Recruiter to Culture Architect

Theresa shares why she shifted from acquisition to engagement, building full lifecycle HR strategies rooted in trust and clarity.

15:29 – When to Start Thinking About People Strategy

At 20 people, you need to get intentional—mission, values, cofounder conflict prep, and hiring bar must be aligned.

18:51 – Shadow Planning Explained

Why leaders must confront their own stress behaviors and prepare for the worst—before it happens.

22:39 – Handling Employee Departures with Grace

How to de-risk talent exits through succession planning and constant market awareness.

26:39 – Scaling Yourself Out of a Job

Helping leaders delegate, prevent burnout, and imagine new roles for themselves as the company grows.

32:16 – When to Start Succession Planning

The earlier, the better—start once you have traction. Document, delegate, and depersonalize the process.

36:17 – AI’s Role in HR

AI can’t replace the human heart of HR—but it can free you to focus on what matters most.

38:50 – Closing Reflections

Barry praises Theresa’s impact and encourages founders at scaling junctures to seek her wisdom and services.

• Theresa Cantwell on LinkedIn
• GSD HR Consulting

• LinkedIn
• Website
• Facebook
• Twitter / X
• Instagram

What happens when you stop chasing returns and start investing in purpose?

Ron Diamond, Founder and Chairman of Diamond Wealth, believes the future of finance isn’t just about building wealth—it’s about what that wealth can do. As a trusted advisor to over 100 family offices ranging from $250 million to $30 billion, Ron has spent more than two decades helping ultra-wealthy families align their capital with causes that matter.

In this episode, Ron shares how the collapse of Drexel Burnham shaped his perspective on loyalty, legacy, and leadership—and why “patient capital” is poised to disrupt the short-termism of private equity. We explore how purpose-driven investing is solving real-world challenges, from cancer to climate, and what it takes to build sustainable family office infrastructure in an era of unprecedented generational wealth transfer.

And the timing couldn’t be more relevant: family offices are no longer niche players. The number of single-family offices has surged 31% since 2019, with projections reaching over 10,700 globally by 2030. As trillions of dollars transition to the next generation, Ron offers a front-row seat to the values, strategies, and systems needed to steward that wealth wisely.

Ron is also the Founder, Host, and CEO of Family Office World Media, and helped establish the Family Office Program for TIGER 21, where he chairs a national peer group. He lectures at Oxford, Stanford, Harvard, and the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, and was recently appointed Editor-in-Chief of The National Law Review’s first Family Office newsletter. A LinkedIn Top Voice, TEDx speaker, and former hedge fund founder, Ron began his career on Wall Street at Bear Stearns and Drexel Burnham.

• People Over Companies: Ron’s experience during Drexel’s collapse taught him that relationships—not institutions—are what endure.
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• Patient Capital Is a Game-Changer: Family offices can think in decades, not quarters, offering strategic advantage over traditional funds.
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• Purpose Before Profit: Legacy and social impact must anchor investment decisions.
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• Professionalization Is Essential: Governance, infrastructure, and talent are what turn capital into capability.
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• The Ego Barrier: Great wealth doesn’t guarantee great management—humility is crucial for longevity.
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1. Guiding North Star: Profit with Purpose

Anchor investments in something bigger than financial return—personal mission, legacy, or societal impact.

→ Tip: Define your North Star early and align capital accordingly.

2. Trust & Relationships First

Back character over credentials. Trust and personal integrity build more resilient partnerships than models or metrics.

→ Tip: Focus on people, not pitch decks.

3. Patient, Long-Term Capital

Think in decades, not exit cycles. Family offices can outperform by holding steady and avoiding short-termism.

→ Tip: Let compounding do the heavy lifting.

4. Professionalizing Family Offices

Family offices must evolve beyond legacy systems—invest in governance, talent, and infrastructure like any top-tier fund.

→ Tip: Treat talent as a profit center, not a cost.

5. Entrepreneurial Philanthropy

Deploy strategic, venture-style capital into social challenges. Purpose and profit can—and should—coexist.

→ Tip: Apply the same rigor to social impact as you do to your investments.

00:00 – Episode Recap

Ron Diamond shares how witnessing the downfall of Drexel Burnham sparked his lifelong belief in prioritizing people over companies—and why loyalty should lie with individuals, not brands.

01:39 – Guest Introduction: Ron Diamond

Barry introduces Ron Diamond, Chairman of Diamond Wealth and Family Office World Media, and a leading voice in purpose-driven capital and governance reform.

05:13 – Building a Family Office Syndicate

Ron explains his “first call alpha” model—aggregating capital from 100+ family offices to invest together in private markets.

08:40 – The North Star Philosophy

From Milken’s prostate cancer initiative to Eric Lefkofsky’s Tempus Labs, Ron shows how personal purpose drives breakthrough impact.

11:41 – Listening to Find Values Alignment

Ron’s secret to identifying values-driven leaders: listen more, talk less—and show up without an agenda.

16:43 – Growth Mindset Over Scarcity

Competing with others is outdated—Ron champions an abundance mindset rooted in collaboration and long-term thinking.

20:32 – The Operational Trap for New Family Offices

Ron breaks down why most new family offices fail and how professionalization—from mission statements to succession—can change that.

23:41 – The Power and Pitfalls of Patient Capital

He explores how family offices can outperform PE firms by holding long-term and avoiding short-term incentives.

32:42 – Creating a Playbook for Next-Gen Wealth

From Booth to Stanford, Ron is building the first structured family office curricula focused on governance, values, and impact.

39:31 – Investing in Talent Like an Institution

Ron outlines why top talent needs equity, not just salary—and why underinvesting in people is the silent killer of family offices.

44:34 – Finance Meets Philanthropy

Why family offices—not government or corporations—will solve many of society’s biggest challenges in the next 20 years.

45:31 – Closing Reflections

Ron shares how listeners can follow his work and why patient capital is the future of both wealth and impact.

• Ron Diamond LinkedIn
• Ron Diamond Website 
• Diamond Wealth
• Family Office World Media