How do you know if you aren’t attracting enough people to your church?

If your church has plateaued or is in decline, is the problem that you’re not attracting enough visitors or that you aren’t keeping those who are already attending? What signs will lead you to discover the problem?

The debate between front door problems and back door problems in church leadership has raged for years. Before we move ahead, let’s set some working definitions for what we mean by front door and back door:

The front door: Our ability to attract new visitors to our church.

Every growing church needs to attract a healthy flow of new visitors on a consistent basis.

The back door: Our systems, approaches, and community that enable people to stay at churches long term.

Growing, healthy churches have consistent methods for helping first-time guests become active parts of the community; however, how does one diagnose the problem between the front door and the back door?

Over the years of talking to vast numbers of church leaders, I’m convinced that we all naturally consider growth problems at our churches as back door problems. We got into ministry because we wanted to care for others, and we are typically community-minded individuals. Therefore, we think that if we just get more people plugged in, our churches will grow.

More often than not, I’ve found that churches are simply ignoring the front door problem and aren’t reaching out enough as a result. We become obsessed with keeping our current attendee base rather than reaching out to those in our communities. Here are seven early warning signs that might indicate that you have a front door problem at your church.

Low First-time Guest Numbers

The key to understanding your front door is to be aware of how many new guests attend on a regular basis. You understand your new guests and can track how many there are by offering a compelling gift in exchange for contact information. Qualified guests are those that give you their contact information.

If in a given year you have fewer new guests than the average attendance of your church on a regular basis, then you simply aren’t attracting enough people through the front door.

For example, if your church averages 200 people per week, then on average you should be seeing at least four first-time visitors every weekend. You need to track this information for at least four to six months before you can get a sense of where you’re landing numbers wise. As you keep a close eye on this over time, you will start to see the patterns.

You Have Room on Big Days

Does your church still have empty seats during Christmas Eve? Last Easter were you forced to open up new services? If you have available room on big days, you are not tapping into the full potential of your church.

A church with a wide front door wrestles with adding new services—or maybe even new locations—on these big days as your church should be attracting enough people that it pushes all of the organizational buttons in your church.

Typically, I’ve seen churches achieve at least two times, if not three times, their normal Sunday morning attendance on these big days. If you aren’t striving for those numbers, then you may not be reaching enough people as a church.

Little Pastoral Messiness

The reality is that when people come in through the front door of your church, it causes problems for your pastoral team. When we’re attracting people, they come with all their problems. This isn’t to say that people outside the church have more problems than those inside the church—more often, it’s just that folks outside the church aren’t as good at hiding their problems as people that have been with us for a while.

If you can’t remember the last time you faced a complex pastoral care scenario,

Welcome back to the unSeminary podcast. We have a fascinating conversation with Executive Pastor Daniel Currie and Lead Pastor Joel Southerland from Peavine Baptist Church in Rock Spring, Georgia.

The first thing you’d notice when pulling up to Peavine is that it’s in the middle of nowhere and you wouldn’t know that it’s only 20 minutes from downtown Chattanooga. There are about 500,000 people in Peavine’s ministry area and though the church seems to be off the beaten path in a rural farm area, inside it’s a dynamic worship experience. Joel and Daniel are with us today to talk about changing the expectations of rural churches.

* Be intentional to be outside the walls. // The main campus in Rock Spring is still a rural church, despite the success of the church and the campuses. But they’ve been able to leverage both their location and the reach of their people to create a regional approach to their ministry. In other words, rather than live with the idea that they are rural and will always be rural or only focus on what is immediately around them, they use their congregation’s day-to-day lives to reach people throughout the regional area and share the gospel with others they encounter. Deciding to go outside of their four walls and outside of the agricultural land around them was very intentional, and Peavine wouldn’t be experiencing their current growth if they had not made the choice to be that intentional.

* Developing Peavine City. // During a staff retreat in 2016, Joel had the idea to put a dot on the map where the church was and draw a radius around the church and call it “Peavine City.” Peavine City is a fictitious place which would be adopted as their local ministry area and all of their resources would be focused on reaching the people within it with the gospel. They decided on a 20 mile radius around the church and developed a regional mentality to grow their church not by building a huge building but by planting regional campuses so they could minister to the people of Peavine City.

* #PeavineCity. // In December 2016, Joel put together a 40 day devotional on the book of Acts for the church to read and pray through. In the opening cover he soft pitched the idea of Peavine City with the radius around the church to show the area. He then mentioned it in his sermons at the beginning of January. People took to it and began using the hashtag #PeavineCity. The church decided to strategically attack social media to spread the buzz about Peavine City. When people asked what Peavine City was or where it was, people could tell them to come on Sunday morning to church and find out more about it.

* Rural communities today are not like rural communities of the past. // The people in rural communities are much more technologically savvy and aware of the world around them. There are those who grew up in cities, but live in a rural area by choice because they can do their jobs remotely. Pastors and staff of rural churches need to remember this and be aware of what their congregation wants for their church and how they want to reach people.

* Success with a bi-vocational pastor in a growing church. // As a bi-vocational pastor, Joel doesn’t do office work during the day at the church or have any weekday responsibilities. His main responsibilities are to speak on Sunday mornings, lead the staff, and cast vision. Daniel manages the office staff and deals with other day-to-day things. Not having a lead pastor right down the hall changes some things, such as the speed of decisions, but there also has to be a high level of trust between the lead pastor and executive pastor for this situation to succeed, like there is between Daniel and Joel. There isn’t a one-size-fits-all recipe for this type of situation, but it can be done through patience and figuring out what works and what doesn’t.

You can learn more about Peavine Baptist Church at

Welcome back to the unSeminary podcast. We have a fascinating conversation with Executive Pastor Daniel Currie and Lead Pastor Joel Southerland from Peavine Baptist Church in Rock Spring, Georgia.

The first thing you’d notice when pulling up to Peavine is that it’s in the middle of nowhere and you wouldn’t know that it’s only 20 minutes from downtown Chattanooga. There are about 500,000 people in Peavine’s ministry area and though the church seems to be off the beaten path in a rural farm area, inside it’s a dynamic worship experience. Joel and Daniel are with us today to talk about changing the expectations of rural churches.

* Be intentional to be outside the walls. // The main campus in Rock Spring is still a rural church, despite the success of the church and the campuses. But they’ve been able to leverage both their location and the reach of their people to create a regional approach to their ministry. In other words, rather than live with the idea that they are rural and will always be rural or only focus on what is immediately around them, they use their congregation’s day-to-day lives to reach people throughout the regional area and share the gospel with others they encounter. Deciding to go outside of their four walls and outside of the agricultural land around them was very intentional, and Peavine wouldn’t be experiencing their current growth if they had not made the choice to be that intentional.

* Developing Peavine City. // During a staff retreat in 2016, Joel had the idea to put a dot on the map where the church was and draw a radius around the church and call it “Peavine City.” Peavine City is a fictitious place which would be adopted as their local ministry area and all of their resources would be focused on reaching the people within it with the gospel. They decided on a 20 mile radius around the church and developed a regional mentality to grow their church not by building a huge building but by planting regional campuses so they could minister to the people of Peavine City.

* #PeavineCity. // In December 2016, Joel put together a 40 day devotional on the book of Acts for the church to read and pray through. In the opening cover he soft pitched the idea of Peavine City with the radius around the church to show the area. He then mentioned it in his sermons at the beginning of January. People took to it and began using the hashtag #PeavineCity. The church decided to strategically attack social media to spread the buzz about Peavine City. When people asked what Peavine City was or where it was, people could tell them to come on Sunday morning to church and find out more about it.

* Rural communities today are not like rural communities of the past. // The people in rural communities are much more technologically savvy and aware of the world around them. There are those who grew up in cities, but live in a rural area by choice because they can do their jobs remotely. Pastors and staff of rural churches need to remember this and be aware of what their congregation wants for their church and how they want to reach people.

* Success with a bi-vocational pastor in a growing church. // As a bi-vocational pastor, Joel doesn’t do office work during the day at the church or have any weekday responsibilities. His main responsibilities are to speak on Sunday mornings, lead the staff, and cast vision. Daniel manages the office staff and deals with other day-to-day things. Not having a lead pastor right down the hall changes some things, such as the speed of decisions, but there also has to be a high level of trust between the lead pastor and executive pastor for this situation to succeed, like there is between Daniel and Joel. There isn’t a one-size-fits-all recipe for this type of situation, but it can be done through patience and figuring out what works and what doesn’t.

You can learn more about Peavine Baptist Church at

Welcome back to our new podcast all about multisite! I’m chatting with a group of multisite ninjas and answering your questions about the ins and outs of launching new campuses. Our group is as follows:

Natalie Frisk is our family ministry expert. She is a key leader from The Meeting House. This church has 19 (!) locations and is doing all kinds of great stuff, including a killer kids’ & youth curriculum that they give away for free. Natalie’s a lot of fun and will have so many great insights around leading in a thriving multisite church.

Greg Curtis is our guest connections and assimilation expert. He leads at Eastside Christian Church, one of the fastest growing churches in the country, and literally, is the “go to” source for getting people to stick and stay in the church. (Eastside has assimilated something like 1,500 people in the last 18 months!) His coaching practice around assimilation is amazing.

Ben Stapley is our communications and service programming expert. Ben is one of the most helpful leaders I know. His day job is the Weekend Experience Director at Christ Fellowship in Miami, but he does so much to help other leaders with the “big show” part of church world.

And I, Rich, have been involved with 14 different campus launches over the years and enjoy helping churches that are thinking about multisite.

We are here to answer your questions about running a multisite church and are excited to be here today with our sixth episode.

Opening Question: What was a highlight from summer?

* Natalie – My daughter had an awesome week at Camp Mini-Yo-We and then we traveled to a lot as a family. It was great to travel and relax a bit.

* Greg – I came back from a Sabbatical in Italy and went to San Francisco. I took my adult kids on a National Park tour and then hung out at the beach.

* Ben – Professionally I transitioned in positions. I used to be the Creative Arts Pastor at Liquid Church in New Jersey. But just recently I came on board as the Weekend Experience Director at Christ Fellowship in Miami.

Q1: When do you know it’s time to go multisite, rather than adding another service?

Multisite isn’t a growth strategy, it’s a multiplication strategy. Going multisite won’t kickstart your church to grow, but if your church is growing, it’s a way to take that growth and multiply it into new areas. So what factors need to be present for you to launch a new campus?

Natalie recommends that you think about the economic point of view. A lot of the costs can be easily minimized and measured in launching a second service at the same site rather than launching a second campus. In kids’ ministry, Natalie thinks about all of the classroom supplies, the volunteers and investment needed for new classrooms and youth groups, youth activities, and so on. If parking is an issue at your campus, one alternative would be moving your original campus instead of launching a second site.

When asked, “Should I add another service or another site?” Ben says the answer is yes. “If your church is growing don’t you as a leader be the bottleneck because you have a small vision; release it as much as you can.” Start with a big vision. Maximize your current space before you look to launch another campus. The top three bottlenecks for service growth are parking space, auditorium space, and kid space. Parking is tough, but the way that they got around it at the Liquid Church broadcast campus where Ben previously worked was by offering a shuttle service with one of the local businesses. They offered the business use of their auditorium if they could use the business’s parking lot for their shuttle service on Sunday mornings.

When the cost of expanding capacity at a service is greater than the cost of launching a campus, then launch a campus. Greg recommends looking at the costs of property in your...

Welcome back to our new podcast all about multisite! I’m chatting with a group of multisite ninjas and answering your questions about the ins and outs of launching new campuses. Our group is as follows:

Natalie Frisk is our family ministry expert. She is a key leader from The Meeting House. This church has 19 (!) locations and is doing all kinds of great stuff, including a killer kids’ & youth curriculum that they give away for free. Natalie’s a lot of fun and will have so many great insights around leading in a thriving multisite church.

Greg Curtis is our guest connections and assimilation expert. He leads at Eastside Christian Church, one of the fastest growing churches in the country, and literally, is the “go to” source for getting people to stick and stay in the church. (Eastside has assimilated something like 1,500 people in the last 18 months!) His coaching practice around assimilation is amazing.

Ben Stapley is our communications and service programming expert. Ben is one of the most helpful leaders I know. His day job is the Weekend Experience Director at Christ Fellowship in Miami, but he does so much to help other leaders with the “big show” part of church world.

And I, Rich, have been involved with 14 different campus launches over the years and enjoy helping churches that are thinking about multisite.

We are here to answer your questions about running a multisite church and are excited to be here today with our sixth episode.

Opening Question: What was a highlight from summer?

* Natalie – My daughter had an awesome week at Camp Mini-Yo-We and then we traveled to a lot as a family. It was great to travel and relax a bit.

* Greg – I came back from a Sabbatical in Italy and went to San Francisco. I took my adult kids on a National Park tour and then hung out at the beach.

* Ben – Professionally I transitioned in positions. I used to be the Creative Arts Pastor at Liquid Church in New Jersey. But just recently I came on board as the Weekend Experience Director at Christ Fellowship in Miami.

Q1: When do you know it’s time to go multisite, rather than adding another service?

Multisite isn’t a growth strategy, it’s a multiplication strategy. Going multisite won’t kickstart your church to grow, but if your church is growing, it’s a way to take that growth and multiply it into new areas. So what factors need to be present for you to launch a new campus?

Natalie recommends that you think about the economic point of view. A lot of the costs can be easily minimized and measured in launching a second service at the same site rather than launching a second campus. In kids’ ministry, Natalie thinks about all of the classroom supplies, the volunteers and investment needed for new classrooms and youth groups, youth activities, and so on. If parking is an issue at your campus, one alternative would be moving your original campus instead of launching a second site.

When asked, “Should I add another service or another site?” Ben says the answer is yes. “If your church is growing don’t you as a leader be the bottleneck because you have a small vision; release it as much as you can.” Start with a big vision. Maximize your current space before you look to launch another campus. The top three bottlenecks for service growth are parking space, auditorium space, and kid space. Parking is tough, but the way that they got around it at the Liquid Church broadcast campus where Ben previously worked was by offering a shuttle service with one of the local businesses. They offered the business use of their auditorium if they could use the business’s parking lot for their shuttle service on Sunday mornings.

When the cost of expanding capacity at a service is greater than the cost of launching a campus, then launch a campus. Greg recommends looking at the costs of property in your...

If the people in your community don’t know that your church exists, they won’t ever join your church.

If nobody in your city is aware of your church’s services or Sunday gatherings, you’ve lost a chance to connect those people to your discipleship process. A frequently overlooked step in connecting with a community is simply building baseline awareness of a church in that broader community. The first step in connecting with new guests at your church is making them aware of your church in the first place.

When was the last time your church reached out to the community to make your presence known?

How are you actively ensuring that people in your town know about your church and the services you offer?

Here are five categories that outline different ways you can build community awareness of your church. (Granted, I know that some of these things cost money, but I presume you either have budget money allocated or could reallocate resources towards this area.) We’re passionate about reaching people in our communities because the local church is the only organization in the world that doesn’t exist for its own people. We exist for people outside our walls and reaching out to them starts with them knowing us.

Community Outreach

Getting your people out of their seats and into the streets is the most effective way to build community awareness. In my book, Church Growth Flywheel, there is a whole chapter dedicated to leveraging community outreach for church growth.

Good old-fashioned community service is great, not only for building your community’s awareness of your church but also for paving a path towards trust. The reality is that people drive by our churches and aren’t always sure what goes on inside. Rather than waiting for people to come in, what if we motivated our people to go outside our walls and make a difference? You’d be amazed at the doors that this will open as your church is seen and perceived as an active participant in the community. Here are a few examples of some community outreach events you could run:

Community clean-up day // Contact your local parks and rec department and ask them if people from your church could clean up the park next spring. Get everyone a volunteer t-shirt and have some fun in the outdoors!

Free market // As opposed to flea markets where people try to sell their junky stuff, a free market is where we bring our best stuff and give it away to people in need. Work with local community service organizations to spread the word to families in need who live in your town.

Winter carnival for families with special needs // You’re already planning fun Christmas activities, so why not turn those activities into something special for the children with special needs in your community? Again, partnering with local organizations that can provide resources and information on what families in your area require will be a big help when organizing these types of events.

Sunday Signage

If all your church has is a single small sign at the road indicating you exist, you are missing an opportunity to create awareness with some temporary signage you can put up on Sundays. The truth is that people drive by and are unaware of what’s happening inside your building—even on Sunday mornings! What if you invested some time and a few resources in signage for the outside of your church so that people could know what’s happening inside? Here are some examples of signage you could add:

* Flags on the corners of your property // Giant tear-drop flags are always fun in the wind, and you’d be surprised how economical they are.

If the people in your community don’t know that your church exists, they won’t ever join your church.

If nobody in your city is aware of your church’s services or Sunday gatherings, you’ve lost a chance to connect those people to your discipleship process. A frequently overlooked step in connecting with a community is simply building baseline awareness of a church in that broader community. The first step in connecting with new guests at your church is making them aware of your church in the first place.

When was the last time your church reached out to the community to make your presence known?

How are you actively ensuring that people in your town know about your church and the services you offer?

Here are five categories that outline different ways you can build community awareness of your church. (Granted, I know that some of these things cost money, but I presume you either have budget money allocated or could reallocate resources towards this area.) We’re passionate about reaching people in our communities because the local church is the only organization in the world that doesn’t exist for its own people. We exist for people outside our walls and reaching out to them starts with them knowing us.

Community Outreach

Getting your people out of their seats and into the streets is the most effective way to build community awareness. In my book, Church Growth Flywheel, there is a whole chapter dedicated to leveraging community outreach for church growth.

Good old-fashioned community service is great, not only for building your community’s awareness of your church but also for paving a path towards trust. The reality is that people drive by our churches and aren’t always sure what goes on inside. Rather than waiting for people to come in, what if we motivated our people to go outside our walls and make a difference? You’d be amazed at the doors that this will open as your church is seen and perceived as an active participant in the community. Here are a few examples of some community outreach events you could run:

Community clean-up day // Contact your local parks and rec department and ask them if people from your church could clean up the park next spring. Get everyone a volunteer t-shirt and have some fun in the outdoors!

Free market // As opposed to flea markets where people try to sell their junky stuff, a free market is where we bring our best stuff and give it away to people in need. Work with local community service organizations to spread the word to families in need who live in your town.

Winter carnival for families with special needs // You’re already planning fun Christmas activities, so why not turn those activities into something special for the children with special needs in your community? Again, partnering with local organizations that can provide resources and information on what families in your area require will be a big help when organizing these types of events.

Sunday Signage

If all your church has is a single small sign at the road indicating you exist, you are missing an opportunity to create awareness with some temporary signage you can put up on Sundays. The truth is that people drive by and are unaware of what’s happening inside your building—even on Sunday mornings! What if you invested some time and a few resources in signage for the outside of your church so that people could know what’s happening inside? Here are some examples of signage you could add:

* Flags on the corners of your property // Giant tear-drop flags are always fun in the wind, and you’d be surprised how economical they are.

Thank you for joining us for this week’s podcast. We have a great conversation with Bill Brown, the executive pastor at Parkview Christian Church. Parkview Christian Church was founded in 1951 and is one of the fastest growing churches in the country with three campuses.

Bill describes their experiences as being sort of thrust into multisite, like many churches are, when a struggling church in their area approached them and asked that they take their campus in order to continue God’s work there. The leaders at Parkview had been talking about multisite and learned about it from others, but hadn’t yet taken the step. When the opportunity came, Bill says they took it even though they weren’t sure what to do. He’s here today to talk about taking that leap into multisite.

* The first years were both excitement and struggle. // There was constant tension about what was going to be uniform across both campuses and what was to be expected from central. Because Parkview had jumped into multisite so suddenly, they didn’t even have a “central”, just a big box and the other campus. At times the tension would boil over, with the second campus complaining that the first campus wasn’t giving them what they needed but rather focusing on their own 5,000-person congregation and needs.

* It’s like raising your kids. // There are developmental things that are normal struggles and you shouldn’t really worry about them as a parent because that’s part of growing up. But then there are things that are extreme and if you don’t tackle them they can become a big issue. It’s similar with birthing campuses. Tension had become beyond normal ministry tension. Leadership saw that the tensions were beginning to be heightened on a more frequent basis and there were discussions of “us versus them”.

* Restart and realign. // Parkview’s leadership realized they had to become clear about what their strategy was or the mission would die. During this process, the campus pastor stepped down in order to take a role as a senior pastor at another church, so they hired a new campus pastor. Then another church offered them their building for the second campus. Parkview took this as the opportunity to start over and make the changes to align the campus ministries with their main ministries. With coaching and help from a friend at Life Church and a few others, they brought everything into alignment, from worship down to the paint colors used at the campus.

* Internal language warning signs. // An early warning sign that can turn into tension among multisite campuses is the use of language internally and how the campuses are referred to. It’s a small thing, but it can show an “us versus them” mentality or elevate the importance of one campus over another. One example is referring to “main” and “satellite” campuses. They no longer use that language at Parkview, but only “broadcast campus” or Homer Glen campus, where the sermons are broadcast from, and then the New Lenox and Orland Park campuses. That doesn’t put one campus valued above another, but rather describes a function of the campus.

* Don’t let the tension divide the church. // There will always be a tension among campuses, no matter how many or few you have, but it’s a tension to be managed, not to be solved. Get outside eyes on it to help you see what’s normal and what isn’t. Bill also advises that you have a good grasp of the direction you want to go instead of just jumping in with no plan. Are you trying to reproduce the original campus, or are you trying to do something unique in each community? Have a plan and know the warning signs to prevent the us versus them mentality that can kill your mission.

You can learn more about Parkview Christian Church at their website https://www.parkviewchurch.com/.

Thank You for Tuning In!

Thank you for joining us for this week’s podcast. We have a great conversation with Bill Brown, the executive pastor at Parkview Christian Church. Parkview Christian Church was founded in 1951 and is one of the fastest growing churches in the country with three campuses.

Bill describes their experiences as being sort of thrust into multisite, like many churches are, when a struggling church in their area approached them and asked that they take their campus in order to continue God’s work there. The leaders at Parkview had been talking about multisite and learned about it from others, but hadn’t yet taken the step. When the opportunity came, Bill says they took it even though they weren’t sure what to do. He’s here today to talk about taking that leap into multisite.

* The first years were both excitement and struggle. // There was constant tension about what was going to be uniform across both campuses and what was to be expected from central. Because Parkview had jumped into multisite so suddenly, they didn’t even have a “central”, just a big box and the other campus. At times the tension would boil over, with the second campus complaining that the first campus wasn’t giving them what they needed but rather focusing on their own 5,000-person congregation and needs.

* It’s like raising your kids. // There are developmental things that are normal struggles and you shouldn’t really worry about them as a parent because that’s part of growing up. But then there are things that are extreme and if you don’t tackle them they can become a big issue. It’s similar with birthing campuses. Tension had become beyond normal ministry tension. Leadership saw that the tensions were beginning to be heightened on a more frequent basis and there were discussions of “us versus them”.

* Restart and realign. // Parkview’s leadership realized they had to become clear about what their strategy was or the mission would die. During this process, the campus pastor stepped down in order to take a role as a senior pastor at another church, so they hired a new campus pastor. Then another church offered them their building for the second campus. Parkview took this as the opportunity to start over and make the changes to align the campus ministries with their main ministries. With coaching and help from a friend at Life Church and a few others, they brought everything into alignment, from worship down to the paint colors used at the campus.

* Internal language warning signs. // An early warning sign that can turn into tension among multisite campuses is the use of language internally and how the campuses are referred to. It’s a small thing, but it can show an “us versus them” mentality or elevate the importance of one campus over another. One example is referring to “main” and “satellite” campuses. They no longer use that language at Parkview, but only “broadcast campus” or Homer Glen campus, where the sermons are broadcast from, and then the New Lenox and Orland Park campuses. That doesn’t put one campus valued above another, but rather describes a function of the campus.

* Don’t let the tension divide the church. // There will always be a tension among campuses, no matter how many or few you have, but it’s a tension to be managed, not to be solved. Get outside eyes on it to help you see what’s normal and what isn’t. Bill also advises that you have a good grasp of the direction you want to go instead of just jumping in with no plan. Are you trying to reproduce the original campus, or are you trying to do something unique in each community? Have a plan and know the warning signs to prevent the us versus them mentality that can kill your mission.

You can learn more about Parkview Christian Church at their website https://www.parkviewchurch.com/.

Thank You for Tuning In!

Carey Nieuwhof is an influential pastor, podcaster, and thought leader who believes it’s not only possible to predict life’s hardest moments, but also to alter outcomes, overcome challenges, and defeat your fiercest adversaries.

In his new book “Didn’t See it Coming” he wants to help you avoid and overcome life’s seven hardest and most crippling challenges: cynicism, compromise, disconnectedness, irrelevance, pride, burnout, and emptiness. These are challenges that few of us expect but that we all experience at some point. If you have yet to confront these obstacles, Carey provides clear tools and guidelines for anticipation and avoidance. On the other hand, if you already feel stuck in a painful experience or are wrestling with one of these challenges, he provides the steps you need to find a way out and a way forward into a more powerful and vibrant future.

This special bonus episode was recorded as a part of a live Q&A episode where listeners got chance to listen in and ask questions. Join the conversation to hear more!