Are you unintentionally eroding trust by avoiding hard conversations? Also, what happens to your team when trust goes unexercised?

In episode 253 of At The Table, Patrick Lencioni and Cody Thompson unpack why trust isn’t something to simply build and preserve—it must be used, stretched, and tested to grow stronger. They explore how leaders unintentionally erode trust by avoiding honest curiosity, mistaking it for suspicion. 

Topics explored in this episode: 

(00:00) Curiosity vs. Suspicion

* How simple questions like “What are you working on?” can build or break trust.

* Why avoiding questions to “protect” trust actually weakens it over time.

(04:59) Trust Isn’t a Museum Piece

* Unused trust is like a car that’s never driven—beautiful but purposeless.

(09:56) Healthy Relationships Aren’t Fragile

* How conflict and tension signal healthy trust, not dysfunction.

* The importance of exercising trust through candid conversations.

(13:28) Trust and Remote Leadership

* How distance and fear of misinterpretation can make trust decay faster.

(17:16) Leaders Must Take the First Risk

* Pat challenges leaders to stop being afraid of awkwardness and exercise trust first.

This episode of At The Table with Patrick Lencioni is brought to you by The Table Group: https://www.tablegroup.com. We teach leaders how to make work more effective and less dysfunctional. We also help their employees be more fulfilled and less miserable. 

At The Table is a podcast that lives at the connection between work life, leadership, organizational health, and culture. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4hJKKSL), Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/6NWAZzkzl4ljxX7S2xkHvu), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/At-The-Table-YouTube). 

Follow Pat Lencioni on https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-lencioni-orghealth, http://www.youtube.com/@PatrickLencioniOfficial, and https://x.com/patricklencioni. 

Be sure to check out our other podcast, The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni, on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4iNz6Yn), Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/3raC053GF5mtkq6Y1klpRU), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/Working-Genius-YouTube). 

Let us know your feedback via [email protected]. 

This episode was produced by Story On Media: https://www.storyon.co.

What happens to a culture when leaders ignore problems?

In episode 252 of At The Table, Patrick and Cody explore the leadership principle of running toward the fire. They discuss why leaders often ignore the “smoke” of personnel or cultural issues, hoping problems will resolve themselves. Instead, they argue that credibility, trust, and organizational health are built when leaders courageously confront issues before they spread.

Topics explored in this episode: 

00:35 – Seeing Smoke

* Leaders set the tone by how they respond to problems.

03:33 – Defining the Fire

* Personnel problems are the most commonly ignored fires in organizations.

06:03 – Why Leaders Avoid the Fire

* Confrontation feels messy and uncomfortable, especially when emotions are involved.

09:45 – The Cost of Avoidance

* Ignoring smoke damages credibility, weakens leadership muscle, and sets a bad cultural example.

12:20 – Regaining Credibility

* Leaders can only rebuild trust through visible action, not promises.

This episode of At The Table with Patrick Lencioni is brought to you by The Table Group: https://www.tablegroup.com. We teach leaders how to make work more effective and less dysfunctional. We also help their employees be more fulfilled and less miserable. 

At The Table is a podcast that lives at the connection between work life, leadership, organizational health, and culture. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4hJKKSL), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4l1aop0), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/At-The-Table-YouTube). 

Follow Pat Lencioni on https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-lencioni-orghealth, http://www.youtube.com/@PatrickLencioniOfficial, and https://x.com/patricklencioni. 

Be sure to check out our other podcast, The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni, on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4iNz6Yn), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4iGGm8u), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/Working-Genius-YouTube). 

Let us know your feedback via [email protected]. 

This episode was produced by Story On Media: https://www.storyon.co.

In what ways can the formula for change be useful for understanding both personal and organizational change?

In episode 251 of At The Table, Patrick and Cody explore the so-called change equation, a simple yet powerful formula that explains why some change efforts succeed while others stall. Breaking it down into dissatisfaction, vision, and a first simple step—multiplied together—they show how these elements must outweigh resistance for change to occur. 

Topics explored in this episode: 

0:55 – The Change Equation

3:17 – D: Dissatisfaction with the Current State

* How leaders and individuals can identify and amplify dissatisfaction.

4:38 – V: Vision for a Better Future

* The importance of painting a clear and compelling future state.

6:52 – F: The First Simple Step

* Why a small, achievable action builds momentum and reduces overwhelm.

17:59 – R: Resistance to Change

* How fear, comfort, and uncertainty fuel resistance.

Here are some additional notes that relate to the equation explored in this episode: 

D × V × F > R. 

D = Dissatisfaction with how things are now. 

V = Vision of what is possible. 

F = First concrete steps that can be taken towards the vision. 

If the product of these three factors is greater than R = Resistance, then change is possible. Because D, V, and F are multiplied, if any one is absent (zero) or low, then the product will be zero or low and therefore not capable of overcoming the resistance.

This episode of At The Table with Patrick Lencioni is brought to you by The Table Group: https://www.tablegroup.com. We teach leaders how to make work more effective and less dysfunctional. We also help their employees be more fulfilled and less miserable. 

At The Table is a podcast that lives at the connection between work life, leadership, organizational health, and culture. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4hJKKSL), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4l1aop0), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/At-The-Table-YouTube). 

Follow Pat Lencioni on https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-lencioni-orghealth, http://www.youtube.com/@PatrickLencioniOfficial, and https://x.com/patricklencioni. 

Be sure to check out our other podcast, The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni, on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4iNz6Yn), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4iGGm8u), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/Working-Genius-YouTube). 

Let us know your feedback via [email protected]. 

This episode was produced by Story On Media: https://www.storyon.co.

How would your workplace culture change if love and service were driving forces?

In episode 250 of At The Table, Pat and Cody introduce the concepts of BaaM (Business as a Ministry) and WaaM (Work as a Ministry). They explore how viewing business and work through the lens of service and love can create healthier workplaces and stronger organizations. Whether you’re leading a public company or managing a small team, this conversation will invite how you think about purpose, culture, and results.

Topics explored in this episode: 

(0:32) Business as a Ministry (BaaM) 

* How businesses can be seen as a way to serve others with love, going beyond just the transactional goal of making money

(3:10) The Case for Love in Business

* Tim Sanders’ book Love Is the Killer App.

* How fear-based businesses struggle while love-centered cultures thrive.

* The challenge of applying BaaM in public companies.

(5:48) Work as a Ministry (Waam)

* WaaM can be useful for employees in less purpose-driven organizations.

(8:07) Ministry Doesn’t Sacrifice Results

* John Gordon’s belief that love fuels high performance.

* Love-driven work produces results, but should be pursued because it’s right.

This episode of At The Table with Patrick Lencioni is brought to you by The Table Group: https://www.tablegroup.com. We teach leaders how to make work more effective and less dysfunctional. We also help their employees be more fulfilled and less miserable. 

At The Table is a podcast that lives at the connection between work life, leadership, organizational health, and culture. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4hJKKSL), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4l1aop0), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/At-The-Table-YouTube). 

Follow Pat Lencioni on https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-lencioni-orghealth, http://www.youtube.com/@PatrickLencioniOfficial, and https://x.com/patricklencioni. 

Be sure to check out our other podcast, The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni, on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4iNz6Yn), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4iGGm8u), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/Working-Genius-YouTube). 

Let us know your feedback via [email protected]. 

This episode was produced by Story On Media: https://www.storyon.co.

How can you create a workforce of hungry people who aren't trying to prove their worth by the number of hours they work? And how can you help your coworkers build a sense of ownership and passion around their work? 

In episode 249 of At The Table, Pat and Cody explore why “hunger wins” when it comes to building competitive, effective teams. They challenge the misconception that long hours translate to productivity. They also reveal how to create sustainable competitiveness that inspires people to go above and beyond—without burning them out.

Topics explored in this episode: 

(0:40) Hunger and Competitiveness

* Global trends and misconceptions about competitiveness, including China’s 996 work model.

(4:12) The Pitfalls of Overwork

* Why excessive hours lead to burnout and inefficiency.

(7:25) Hunger in Organizational Culture

* Hunger can’t be legislated or regulated—it must be built into culture.

* The importance of avoiding extremes, hiring the right people, and providing flexibility.

(10:09) Ownership and Sustainable Competitiveness

* How ownership fuels hunger and why pushing employees is sometimes necessary for growth.

(15:41) Hiring Right and Protecting Culture

* The importance of hiring competitive people and quickly addressing poor fits.

This episode of At The Table with Patrick Lencioni is brought to you by The Table Group: https://www.tablegroup.com. We teach leaders how to make work more effective and less dysfunctional. We also help their employees be more fulfilled and less miserable. 

At The Table is a podcast that lives at the connection between work life, leadership, organizational health, and culture. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4hJKKSL), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4l1aop0), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/At-The-Table-YouTube). 

Follow Pat Lencioni on https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-lencioni-orghealth and http://www.youtube.com/@PatrickLencioniOfficial, and https://x.com/patricklencioni.

Be sure to check out our other podcast, The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni, on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4iNz6Yn), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4iGGm8u), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/Working-Genius-YouTube). 

Let us know your feedback via [email protected]. 

This episode was produced by Story On Media: https://www.storyon.co.

How can leaders resist the ego-inflation that comes with praise and status?

In episode 248 of At The Table, Pat and Cody reflect on the viral Coldplay kiss cam scandal—not to sensationalize it, but to draw important leadership lessons from it. They explore the dangers of ego, power, and isolation for leaders, particularly those who fail to stay grounded in their home life and faith.

Topics explored in this episode: 

(0:56) When Praise Becomes Poison

* Why the Coldplay incident is more than just clickbait—it’s a cautionary tale.

(6:44) How Leaders Lose Their Way

* "Reward-centered" versus "responsibility-centered" leadership mindsets.

* Leaders often start believing praise, inflating their sense of entitlement.

(9:08) Home vs. Work

* Praise and affirmation at work can distort leaders’ expectations at home.

* Leaders become vulnerable when they fail to invest emotionally in their families.

(14:20) Guardrails and Hard Truths

* Say out loud that your family is more important than work—and mean it.

(20:26) Building a Life That’s Enough

* Practical ways to reconnect with your spouse and share a vision at home.

This episode of At The Table with Patrick Lencioni is brought to you by The Table Group: https://www.tablegroup.com. We teach leaders how to make work more effective and less dysfunctional. We also help their employees be more fulfilled and less miserable. 

At The Table is a podcast that lives at the connection between work life, leadership, organizational health, and culture. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4hJKKSL), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4l1aop0), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/At-The-Table-YouTube). 

Follow Pat Lencioni on https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-lencioni-orghealth and http://www.youtube.com/@PatrickLencioniOfficial, and https://x.com/patricklencioni.

Be sure to check out our other podcast, The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni, on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4iNz6Yn), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4iGGm8u), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/Working-Genius-YouTube). 

Let us know your feedback via [email protected]. 

This episode was produced by Story On Media: https://www.storyon.co.

Why might being “cool” make someone a dangerous person to work for? And why are some of the greatest leaders uncool? 

In episode 247 of At The Table, Pat and Cody challenge the cultural obsession with being “cool” and examine how it can corrupt leadership. Using a global study that defined six traits of coolness—especially “powerful” and “hedonistic”—they reveal how these values run counter to responsible leadership. Through stories, examples, and hard truths, they make the case that great leaders are often deeply uncool—and that's precisely what makes them trustworthy.

Topics Patrick Lencioni and Cody Thompson explore in this episode: 

(3:39) The Six Traits of Cool

* The hosts list the six cool traits: adventurous, autonomous, open, extroverted, powerful, and hedonistic.

* Pat expresses deep concern about “powerful” and “hedonistic” being celebrated.

(6:53) Cool Traits

* Cody and Pat analyze “open,” “autonomous,” and “adventurous” as potentially valid for leaders.

* They debate whether extroversion belongs in either coolness or leadership.

(10:28) Why Hedonism and Power Don’t Belong

* Why hedonism contradicts servant leadership.

* The trap of confusing likability or popularity with effectiveness.

(16:25) The Dangers of Hiring Cool Leaders

* How boards and teams often choose “cool” over capable.

* Flipping the script—celebrating uncool, authentic leaders.

This episode of At The Table with Patrick Lencioni is brought to you by The Table Group: https://www.tablegroup.com. We teach leaders how to make work more effective and less dysfunctional. We also help their employees be more fulfilled and less miserable. 

At The Table is a podcast that lives at the connection between work life, leadership, organizational health, and culture. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4hJKKSL), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4l1aop0), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/At-The-Table-YouTube). 

Follow Pat Lencioni on https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-lencioni-orghealth, http://www.youtube.com/@PatrickLencioniOfficial, and https://x.com/patricklencioni.

Be sure to check out our other podcast, The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni, on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4iNz6Yn), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4iGGm8u), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/Working-Genius-YouTube). 

Let us know your feedback via [email protected]. 

This episode was produced by Story On Media: https://www.storyon.co.

How does the broader culture of your location influence your organization’s internal culture?

In episode 246 of At The Table, Patrick Lencioni and Cody Thompson explore how meta-culture—the broader geographic or societal environment—shapes the internal culture of organizations. From experiences at the DMV to moving company headquarters, they share insights on how values interact with location. 

Topics explored in this episode: 

(2:44) Organizational Culture Exists Within a Larger Culture

* The macro culture of a city or state can either support or resist company values.

* Remote work and multiple locations complicate maintaining a cohesive culture.

(6:15) Moving Your Company

* Leaders should consider not just financials but cultural fit when moving.

* The meta-culture can affect hiring, operations, and team morale.

* Certain locations make it easier to find people who reflect your values.

* Some environments create cultural friction, while others foster cohesion.

(9:35) Navigating Meta-Culture

* Leaders should actively ask how geography is influencing their organization.

This episode of At The Table with Patrick Lencioni is brought to you by The Table Group: https://www.tablegroup.com. We teach leaders how to make work more effective and less dysfunctional. We also help their employees be more fulfilled and less miserable. 

At The Table is a podcast that lives at the connection between work life, leadership, organizational health, and culture. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4hJKKSL), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4l1aop0), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/At-The-Table-YouTube). 

Follow Pat Lencioni on https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-lencioni-orghealth, http://www.youtube.com/@PatrickLencioniOfficial, and https://x.com/patricklencioni.

Be sure to check out our other podcast, The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni, on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4iNz6Yn), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4iGGm8u), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/Working-Genius-YouTube). 

Let us know your feedback via [email protected]. 

This episode was produced by Story On Media: https://www.storyon.co.

What are some universal traits of successful leaders that any leader in any field can emulate? 

In episode 245 of At The Table, Patrick Lencioni and Cody Thompson reflect on a remarkable leader they consider one of the greatest CEOs they’ve encountered—Tony Mazzella of Mazzella Companies. Tony’s approach to leadership is rooted in humility, deep responsibility, and a relentless desire to learn, all without seeking fame or recognition. This conversation breaks down the traits that make a truly great CEO, far beyond what the public eye ever sees.

Topics explored in this episode: 

(2:42) Humility in Action

* Tony’s humility is evident in how he shares credit and doesn’t perform for attention.

(5:50) Identity & Integrity

* Tony’s peace stems from knowing his identity isn’t tied to performance.

(8:06) Responsibility and Motive

* Tony makes tough calls because he cares deeply for people; there’s no entitlement—just ownership of his role.

(10:28) Curiosity & Continued Growth

* Tony proactively pursued his Working Genius certification.

(13:41) Organizational Health 

* True heroes of organizational health are the leaders who consistently put in the hard work of implementation.

This episode of At The Table with Patrick Lencioni is brought to you by The Table Group: https://www.tablegroup.com. We teach leaders how to make work more effective and less dysfunctional. We also help their employees be more fulfilled and less miserable. 

At The Table is a podcast that lives at the connection between work life, leadership, organizational health, and culture. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4hJKKSL), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4l1aop0), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/At-The-Table-YouTube). 

Follow Pat Lencioni on https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-lencioni-orghealth, http://www.youtube.com/@PatrickLencioniOfficial, and https://x.com/patricklencioni.

Be sure to check out our other podcast, The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni, on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4iNz6Yn), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4iGGm8u), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/Working-Genius-YouTube). 

Let us know your feedback via [email protected]. 

This episode was produced by Story On Media: https://www.storyon.co.

Are you missing out on innovation because you're avoiding discomfort? How can you embrace the tension that's required for innovation? 

In episode 244 of At The Table, Patrick Lencioni and Cody Thompson explore the crucial link between tension and innovation. They argue that real creativity requires discomfort—whether from interpersonal friction or environmental urgency. Through personal stories and business examples, they offer practical ways to embrace conflict and drive change before crisis strikes.

Topics explored in this episode: 

(1:14) Tension Can Be Beneficial

* Innovation is universally desired but rarely pursued.

* True creativity demands both environmental and interpersonal tension.

* Most teams avoid conflict until a crisis forces change.

(3:52) Manufacturing Tension and Creativity

* Cody discusses how companies often manufacture environmental tension to force innovation, especially when complacency sets in. 

* Pat connects innovation to creativity, drawing on his experience as an author and screenwriter. 

(9:17) Does Every Business Need to Innovate?

* Innovation applies to all types of companies in different ways.

* Entrepreneurs often thrive on tension, but most leaders need to learn it.

(14:15) Manufacturing Urgency

* Crises like COVID accelerate innovation by necessity.

* Teams can simulate pressure by setting rallying cries or tight timelines.

(19:24) Fear or Joy Can Drive Innovation 

* A team’s willingness to engage in healthy conflict is directly tied to innovation potential.

* The best employees crave meaningful tension and will leave if it’s missing.

Resources mentioned in this episode: 

* Only the Paranoid Survive: How to Exploit the Crisis Points That Challenge Every Company, a book by Andrew S. Grove. 

This episode of At The Table with Patrick Lencioni is brought to you by The Table Group: https://www.tablegroup.com. We teach leaders how to make work more effective and less dysfunctional. We also help their employees be more fulfilled and less miserable. 

At The Table is a podcast that lives at the connection between work life, leadership, organizational health, and culture. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4hJKKSL), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4l1aop0), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/At-The-Table-YouTube). 

Follow Pat Lencioni on https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-lencioni-orghealth, http://www.youtube.com/@PatrickLencioniOfficial, and https://x.com/patricklencioni.

Be sure to check out our other podcast, The Working Genius Podcast with Patrick Lencioni, on Apple Podcasts (https://apple.co/4iNz6Yn), Spotify (https://spoti.fi/4iGGm8u), and YouTube (https://bit.ly/Working-Genius-YouTube). 

Let us know your feedback via [email protected]. 

This episode was produced by Story On Media: https://www.storyon.co.