In this enlightening episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd sits down with Jennifer Layte to explore the concept of stages of faith. Despite many Christians being taught that faith is static or linear, Jennifer shares insights from both James Fowler's modern framework and Teresa of Avila's 16th-century "Interior Castle" to help listeners understand that spiritual growth naturally involves distinct phases and transitions. This conversation offers comfort and clarity for those navigating their own changing relationship with Jesus, especially during periods of deconstruction or spiritual uncertainty.

About Jennifer:

Jennifer A. G. Layte is a pastor, author of two published novels, and founder of The Pilgrimage—a Jesus-centered online spiritual formation community, created especially to tend to the stories of those who have been hurt by the church or are otherwise struggling in their faith.

Jennifer’s training and certification as an Advanced Practice Board Certified Chaplain, a spiritual director, and an ordained pastor have provided her with unique opportunities to work with diverse (on just about every metric) groups of people. The human stories she carries and the ways she has found to shepherd people through the difficult parts of those stories directly influence her writing. Meanwhile, her formal background in literature and theology gives her imaginative ways of retelling the stories of the Bible and of others, encouraging people to live within their own stories better.

Jennifer and her husband Paul live in New England with their two adorable rescue dogs, an impressive garden, and, to their fascination but not always delight, an astonishing array of wildlife.

Website and Social Media Links

Jennifer’s Book Follower

https://jenniferaglayte.com

https://the-pilgrimage.org

https://linktr.ee/jenniferaglayte

Topics Covered:

* Castles, Mansions, and Soul Work: Discover the fascinating historical frameworks for understanding faith transitions, from a 16th century nun's "Interior Castle" to modern psychological approaches

* "I'm Not Sure God Is Anywhere": Why those terrifying spiritual dry spells might actually be doorways to deeper faith, and how knowing about stages can help you not panic when they arrive

* When Church Activism Isn't Enough: Jennifer reveals the significant transition that many Western Christians are experiencing today, and why moving beyond the "busy doing" phase often feels so disruptive

* Same Beliefs, Different Grip: How you might end up believing many of the same things but holding them completely differently—and why Jennifer went from firmly opposing women pastors to becoming one herself

* Loving Across the Divide: Practical wisdom for those moments when you want to scream "Oh my God, what are these people thinking?"—and how to create meaningful connections with those in different faith stages

Timestamps:

00:47 Stages of Faith: An Overview

14:11 Challenges in Faith Transitions

20:58 The Importance of Growth in Faith

22:03 Evolving Beliefs and Perspectives

28:37 Balancing Tradition and Change

29:59 Engaging with Jesus in Faith

32:49 Loving Others in Different Stages

35:07 Grace in Imperfection

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Untidy Faith, we dive into a thoughtful conversation with MaryB. Safrit about the valuable perspectives and insights that LGBTQ+ Christians bring to faith communities. MaryB. shares her personal journey and wisdom on how straight Christians can learn from queer believers to create more inclusive and authentic expressions of Christian community. This conversation explores misconceptions, reimagines church structures, and highlights the rich theological contributions that emerge from diverse experiences of faith.

Topics Covered:

* Misunderstandings and Misconceptions: Mary B discusses common misconceptions straight Christians have about LGBTQ+ believers, including assumptions about how queer Christians approach scripture and theology

* Intimacy, Friendship, and Boundaries: How queer Christians have developed nuanced understandings of intimacy, attraction, and friendship that challenge harmful purity culture narratives and can benefit all Christians

* Found Family and Chosen Community: The rich tradition of "found family" in queer communities offers powerful models for Christian community that transcend the nuclear family focus of many churches

* Creating Truly Inclusive Churches: Practical insights for making church spaces welcoming through clarity, co-creation, and valuing all members beyond their perceived "usefulness" to church programs

* Challenging Church Hierarchies: How moving away from corporate/business models of church toward more organic communities creates space for diverse gifts and voices

Timestamps:

02:27 Misconceptions About LGBTQIA+ Believers

05:12 Personal Journey and Challenges

09:41 Lessons from the LGBTQIA+ Community

17:36 Evolving Concepts of Family and Belonging

28:57 Inclusivity in Churches

About MaryB. Safrit:

MaryB. Safrit is a New York City-based writer, merch maker, relationship coach, and host of the Found Family podcast. She is passionate about creating spaces and resources for folks who feel like the church doesn't know what to do with them. MaryB. is your friendly neighborhood bisexual and recovering people-pleaser who is currently in her goblin era. Follow her on Instagram and TikTok @maryb.safrit, and get on her Substack list at marybsafrit.substack.com

Website and Social Media Links

* https://www.marybsafrit.com/

* https://www.instagram.com/maryb.safrit/

* https://www.tiktok.com/@maryb.safrit

* https://www.marybsafrit.com/shop

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

Join us as we dive into 2 Samuel 17, examining the complex power dynamics between Absalom and David, the manipulative counsel given by advisors, and the troubling absence of God's voice amid human schemes for revenge and power.

Topics Covered:

* The contrast between Ahithophel and Hushai's advice to Absalom, and how manipulation through vanity and insecurity shaped Absalom's fateful decision

* The recurring theme of women being unnamed and used as tools in men's power struggles, drawing parallels to other biblical stories of women subverting authority

* How cycles of violence perpetuate when justice becomes corrupted by vengeance and personal agendas

* The significant silence of God throughout this chapter, and what that silence might tell us about divine perspective on human power struggles

* The way Absalom's initially pure motives for justice (regarding his sister Tamar) became corrupted through his pursuit of power and vengeance

Timestamps:

01:06 Recap of 2 Samuel 17

01:51 Discussion on Absalom's Coup

05:58 Analyzing the Role of Women in 2 Samuel

08:41 Theological Reflections and Modern Parallels

25:55 Hospitality and Symbolic Significance in the Wilderness

41:11 Takeaways and Final Thoughts

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode, Tiffany Bluhm returns to the Untidy Faith Podcast to help us reframe self-care as an essential component of both personal wholeness and communal flourishing. Moving beyond the commercialized wellness industry, Tiffany offers a powerful perspective on how caring for ourselves in a world that doesn't is both biblical and necessary for creating meaningful social change. Drawing from biblical women and historical examples, she challenges the glorification of burnout and self-sacrifice prevalent in American church culture.

In this episode we discuss:

* How the American church has often discouraged self-care by celebrating and congratulating women who spend themselves until there's nothing left

* The false dichotomy between self-care and self-sacrifice, and why they're actually "a tension to be managed, not solved"

* How biblical women like Miriam demonstrate that self-care isn't a luxury only for the privileged but a necessary component of liberation

* The powerful example of interned Japanese-American women during WWII who practiced communal self-care as resistance

* Practical steps for beginning a self-care journey, including identifying what's missing in your life and what you need to let go of

About Tiffany Bluhm

Tiffany Bluhm is a speaker and writer with more than fifteen years of experience in ministry and nonprofit leadership. She is the author of The Women We’ve Been Waiting For, Prey Tell, She Dreams, and Never Alone. Her work is at the intersection of faith and justice, and her writing has been featured in Publishers Weekly, Sojourners, the YouVersion Bible app, and more. She lives in the Pacific Northwest with her husband and two sons.

Timestamps:

00:51 Challenges of Self Care in the American Church

01:33 Redefining Self Care

03:49 Historical Examples of Self Care

07:08 Communal Flourishing Through Self Care

12:52 Practical Steps for Self Care

27:48 Supporting Others in Their Self Care Journey

29:36 Where to Find Tiffany Online

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode, Kate explores the Wesleyan Quadrilateral as a valuable framework for reading and interpreting scripture. This approach offers a more balanced and holistic way to engage with the Bible, especially for those who are deconstructing or reconstructing their faith. Kate shares how this framework has transformed her own relationship with scripture, providing a more nuanced understanding that honors both the text and our lived experiences.

Topics Covered:

* The four components of the Wesleyan Quadrilateral: Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience

* How Scripture can be a primary authority without being the sole authority

* Why acknowledging our traditions (whether formal or informal) enhances our biblical understanding

* The importance of bringing reason, critical thinking, and modern knowledge to our reading

* How personal and communal experiences enrich our interpretation of texts

Timestamps:

00:29 Exploring the Wesleyan Quadrilateral

03:07 Scripture: The Primary Source

05:58 Tradition: Learning from the Past

12:01 Reason: Embracing Critical Thinking

17:05 Experience: Personal and Communal Insights

21:27 Applying the Wesleyan Quadrilateral

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd is joined by Trey Ferguson and Robert Monson from the Three Black Men crew for a thoughtful conversation about white supremacy in deconstruction spaces. They explore how patterns of white supremacy continue to manifest even after people leave conservative religious environments, and discuss practical ways to build more liberative communities. Let’s examine how these patterns affect our interactions and envision a world beyond the current systems.

Topics Covered:

* How white supremacy manifests in deconstruction spaces, often appearing as simply "an exchange of certainties"

* The tendency to platform and center white voices even in progressive spaces

* Practical steps toward dismantling white supremacy, including diversifying whose voices we listen to

* The importance of being in community with people who experience the world differently

* Moving beyond resistance to envisioning and creating a world beyond white supremacy

About Our Guests:

Trey Ferguson is a Miami-Dade County based minister, writer, and podcaster, and the creator of the New Living Translation, the author of Theologizin’ Bigger, and pastor of Intention Church.

Robert Monson is a PhD student, co-director of enfleshed, and host of Black Coffee and Theology. He writes and studies theology- usually at the intersection of disability, soft masculinity, as well as black and womanist theology, and composes and plays music.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

Content Warning: Sexual assault, violence

Power, betrayal, and justice collide as David’s reign looks like it’s unraveling, and as he grasps for allies, we see just how far some will go to keep what they believe to be theirs.

Join us to explore how systems of power perpetuate cycles of harm — as in the case of Mephibosheth and the women left behind — and how empires shape the people within them (intentionally and unintentionally).

And how do the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount offer us an alternative pattern to follow?

Timestamps:

01:46 Recap of Mephibosheth and Ziba

03:42 David's Encounter with Shimei

04:29 Absalom's Strategy and Betrayal

05:33 Reflections on Justice and Injustice

14:25 The Cycle of Harm and Power

30:29 The Role of Disabled People in Scripture

36:18 Takeaways

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd welcomes Erin Moon, a writer, podcaster, and storyteller, to discuss the nuances of faith, doubt, and the many questions that arise along the journey. They explore why many feel uncomfortable expressing doubts about their faith and discuss the importance of creating safe spaces for curiosity and questions. Erin shares her personal experiences and insights, highlighting the role of relationships, trust, and hope in balancing certainty and mystery in faith. The episode also touches on the practical resources and strategies that have helped both Erin and Kate navigate their spiritual journeys and maintain hope in the midst of doubts and complexities.

About Erin Moon:

Erin Hicks Moon is a writer, podcaster, and storyteller. She is the Resident Bible Scholar and host of the Faith Adjacent podcast, and senior creative at Podcast Media Group. She lives in Birmingham, Alabama, with her husband and three children.

Website and Social Media Links

https://www.erinhmoon.com/

Instagram - @erinhmoon

The Swipe Up newsletter: https://erinhmoon.substack.com/

Upcoming book, "I've Got Questions" from Baker Books: https://bakerbookhouse.com/products/598796

Timestamps:
02:09 The Fear of Expressing Doubts
05:19 The Urgency and Privilege in Faith Discussions
06:53 Doubt as a Sign of Weak Faith?
12:32 Constructive vs. Destructive Doubt
16:20 The Impact of Doubt on Faith Institutions
20:32 Navigating the Messy Middle of Faith
21:12 Helpful Practices and Resources
23:53 Expanding Perspectives on Faith
28:44 Balancing Certainty and Mystery
31:57 Maintaining Hope in Faith

Kate Boyd - Book | Bible Studies | Coaching | Newsletter | Instagram

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd delves into the nuanced and often controversial topic of pronouns for God. Addressing the limitations and constraints of language, Kate explores how our choice of words and metaphors shape our understanding of God. She makes a compelling case for using more inclusive language to reflect the Christian concept of the Trinity and to avoid unintentional exclusions. Kate also discusses the importance of theological imagination and how exposure to diverse theological perspectives can enrich one's faith journey. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that challenges traditional views and encourages thoughtful contemplation on how we describe and relate to the divine.

00:29 The Controversial Topic of Pronouns for God

01:24 Limitations and Impact of Language on God

05:18 Personal Journey and Language Choices

10:58 Theological Imagination and Diverse Perspectives

12:53 A Call to Thoughtful Language

Kate Boyd - Book | Bible Studies | Coaching | Newsletter | Instagram

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd dives into an in-depth conversation with Jonny Morrison, co-lead pastor at Missio Dei in Salt Lake City and author of 'Prodigal Gospel.' They discuss the complexity of understanding the gospel, reflecting on how traditional narratives often emphasize shame and opposition rather than celebration and unconditional love. Jonny shares his journey of evolving his understanding of the gospel, the concept of repentance and forgiveness through the lens of the parable of the prodigal son, and the importance of healing our images of God. This thoughtful dialogue encourages listeners to reconsider and reframe their perception of the gospel in a more inclusive and restorative manner.

Jonny Morrison is co-lead pastor at Missio Dei in Salt Lake City and the author of two books Light as Air and Prodigal Gospel. Jonny’s work, writing, and passion is to create spaces where everyone can belong whether that’s through writing about Jesus, creating community gardens, or pouring wine at backyard dinner parties. Jonny has a Masters in ancient language and doctorate in theology and in his free time, Jonny loves to fly fish, cook for his friends, explore Utah with his wife Tory, and pretend like he understands wine. Find out more at jonnyis.com

Website and Social Media Links

Jonnyis.com

Instagram @Jonny.is

https://jonnymorrison.substack.com/

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction to Untidy Faith Podcast
00:29 Meet Johnny Morrison: Co-Lead Pastor and Author
01:34 Understanding the Gospel Through the Prodigal Son
03:18 Personal Reflections on Faith and Evangelism
06:30 Reframing the Gospel: From Transactional to Relational
10:57 The Parable of the Prodigal Son: A Deeper Dive
21:46 Practical Implications of the Gospel
34:42 Conclusion and Book Promotion

Kate Boyd - Book | Bible Studies | Coaching | Newsletter | Instagram

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit kateboyd.substack.com/subscribe