In this episode, we talk to Dr Alex Hanna, Director of Research at the Distributed AI Research Institute which was founded and directed by her ex-boss at Google Dr Timnit Gebru. Previously a sociologist working on ethical AI at Google and now a superstar in her own right, she tells us why Google’s attempt to be neutral is nonsense, how the word good in ‘good tech’ allows people to dodge getting political when orienting technology towards justice, and why technology may not actually take on the biases of its individual creators but probably will take on the biases of its organisation.