Deborah MacMillan, who talks to former Royal Ballet principal Bruce Sansom, is not afraid to speak her mind. Here she variously both endorses and explodes myths. Apart from anything else, these ten minutes should give hope to anyone who suffers from depression – nothing is impossible. Through the gloom of life, both within and without, her husband, the choreographer Kenneth MacMillan, went on creating ballets that have given thousands of dancers around the world endless challenges and insights, let alone audiences. For all his breaking of moulds and pushing at frontiers, MacMillan’s absolute belief in the traditions of classical ballet is never far away. As well as being a choreographer, MacMillan was also director of The Royal Ballet from 1970 until 1977.

The interview is introduced by Jennifer Jackson.

Deborah MacMillan is the custodian of the ballets choreographed by her late husband, Sir Kenneth MacMillan, supervising productions of his works all over the world. Deborah Williams, as she then was, was born in Queensland, Australia, in 1944, and educated in Sydney. She studied paining and sculpture at the National Art School before moving to London in 1970, marrying Kenneth in 1974. She has designed ballets for both stage and television, as well as making numerous contributions to Royal Ballet productions, including the production realisation for the major revival of Anastasia in 1996, production and setting for a condensed version of Isadora in 2009 and costume designer for a revival of Triad in 2001. In 1984, Deborah returned to painting full-time and her work is represented in private collections both in the UK and the USA.

From 1993 until 1996, Deborah was a member of the Royal Opera House Board, and in 1996 was chair of The Friends of Covent Garden. She has served as a member of the Arts Council of England from 1996 until 1998, when she chaired the dance panel. She has also been a trustee of American Ballet Theatre and a member of the National Committee of Houston Ballet. She became Lady MacMillan when her husband was knighted for his services to dance in 1983

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Romayne Grigorova has had a long, distinguished career in ballet and the theatre. Here, in conversation with Patricia Linton, founder and director of Voices of British Ballet, she focuses on her early years, much of which was coloured by World War Two. In 1943, after training at the Sadler’s Wells Ballet School, she worked with the Sadler’s Wells Opera on The Bartered Bride in London during the Blitz and on tour. In 1945 she travelled to Germany with the opera under the auspices of ENSA. She then joined Ballet Rambert, and went to Germany again, to Berlin, where she delivered food parcels to a German singer and her family in the Russian zone, and scissors to Lotte Reiniger, a famous German film director and pioneer of silhouette animation. Romayne Grigorova also speaks of her dealings with Marie Rambert and Andrée Howard, joining Sadler’s Wells Theatre Ballet in 1951 and touring to North America.

The interview was recorded in 2003, and is introduced by Monica Mason who spoke to Natalie Steed before Romayne's death in July 2025.

Romayne Grigorova was born in Sandwich, Kent, in 1927. She studied under Vera Volkova, Ninette de Valois, George Goncharov and Ailne Philips. Her first appearance on the professional stage was in 1942. In 1943, after training at the Sadler’s Wells Ballet School for a further year, she danced in ballets with the Sadler’s Wells Opera in this country and, in 1945, on tour in Germany under ENSA. She joined Ballet Rambert in 1946 and then danced with the Anglo-Polish and Metropolitan Ballets until 1947, when the latter folded.

Grigorova then worked in the commercial theatre until 1951, including performing in three pantomimes, before joining Sadler’s Wells Theatre Ballet, where she remained until 1955. She was ballet mistress for the stage musical Can-Can in 1955, and for the St Gallen Ballet in 1956. In 1957 she became ballet mistress for the Opera Ballet at the Royal Opera House, for whom she choreographed many ballets. She retired from this post in 1992 but continued to teach on a freelance basis. She performed small character roles with The Royal Ballet at Covent Garden, many of which had been created for her, such as Lady Montague in Kenneth MacMillan’s Romeo and Juliet and The Housekeeper in Peter Wright’s The Nutcracker. Romayne Grigorova was appointed an MBE for her services to dance in 2017. She died in July 2025.

Photo by Donald Southern courtesy of The Royal Ballet

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When Cassa Pancho decided to interview Black female ballet dancers in the UK for her degree dissertation in 1999, she could not find any. So she seized the moment, setting out on the path that was to lead, in 2001, to the company known as Ballet Black and its associated schools. Here, the indomitable Cassa talks to Patricia Linton, founder and director of Voices of British Ballet, about the early days of her career, her expectations for the company and the schools, the misunderstandings she has had to overcome and, above all, her insistence that at all levels the now highly acclaimed Ballet Black is a balletic enterprise, with all that entails in terms of standards. The interview, was recorded in 2010 and is introduced by Kenneth Olumuyiwa Tharp.

Cassa Pancho was born in London in 1978, to Trinidadian and British parents. Her original ambition was to become a ballerina. She trained at the Royal Academy of Dance and in 1999 gained her degree from Durham University.

In 2001, at the age of 21, she founded Ballet Black in order to promote diversity in ballet and to increase the number of Black and Asian dancers in mainstream ballet companies.

She has built a distinct and unique repertoire for her company from a wide range of distinguished choreographers. Ballet Black tours extensively, both in the UK and abroad, with regular London seasons at venues such as the Barbican Theatre and the Linbury Theatre of the Royal Ballet and Opera. Cassa realised from the start the importance of building for the future, and in 2002 set up the Ballet Black Junior School in Shepherd’s Bush, as well as an associate programme for younger pupils. She oversees the programme for young dancers, and teaches regularly herself.

In 2009 Cassa Pancho graduated from the National Theatre Leadership programme. Also in 2009 Ballet Black won the Critics’ Circle National Dance Award for Outstanding Company, and the award for the Best Independent Company in 2012. She was appointed an MBE in 2013 for services to the Arts and was given the Freedom of the City of London in 2018. She is a Patron of Central School of Ballet and a Vice President of the London Ballet Circle.

Photo: Ballet Black rehearsals Cassa Pancho [Artistic Director]; at the Fonteyn Studio, Royal Opera House, London, UK; 19 November 2006; Credit: Bill Cooper / ArenaPAL

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Stephen Johnson and Patricia Linton spoke to Yvonne Minton in 2017 about her role as a young member of The Royal Opera, singing Mahler’s Das Lied von der Erde for The Royal Ballet in 1966. Her memories about that, and about the questions which were raised at the time, were crystal clear. She also has some wonderful reminiscences of life in the Royal Opera House at the time, including a bird’s-eye view of the great Maestro Georg Solti. At the end there is a gentle reminder that change is not always easy – in any profession. The interview is introduced by Stephen Johnson.

The singer Yvonne Minton was born in Sydney, Australia in 1938. Having studied and performed in Australia, she came to London in 1961 to pursue her studies and career. By 1966, having become a regular member of the company of the Royal Opera House at Covent Garden, she sang in Gustav Mahler’s Song of the Earth for The Royal Ballet. She created the role of Thea in Michael Tippett’s opera The Knot Garden in 1970. She appeared in a variety of roles in most of the major opera houses in Europe, including Bayreuth, Salzburg and Paris, and at the Metropolitan Opera in New York. She made concert appearances with many of the best orchestras in the world and was particularly noted for her work with Georg Solti, with whom she made many recordings. In 1980, after a decade or more of prestigious international work, she was appointed CBE for services to music.

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In 1969, Peter Darrell choreographed Beauty and the Beast for Scottish Theatre Ballet. Here Thea Musgrave discusses with Stephen Johnson the challenges and idiosyncrasies she found when creating the music. She was amused to discover that she wasn’t the first composer to have to succumb to balletic demands! Deep, observant and fiercely straightforward, it is fascinating to hear Musgrave describe so poetically another work she created for dance, Orfeo. The interview is introduced by Stephen Johnson.

Thea Musgrave is one of the United Kingdom’s most important and prolific contemporary composers, pursuing her own idiom and musical sensibility throughout a long and distinguished career. She was born in Barnton, in Edinburgh, and went to school in Shropshire. After study at the University of Edinburgh, from 1950 until 1954 she studied in Paris, working under the direction of the redoubtable and influential Nadia Boulanger. She attended the Tanglewood Festival (in Massachusetts) in 1958, studying under Aaron Copeland.

In the late 1950s and 1960s she established herself in London as a notable figure in British musical life. In 1970 she was a guest professor at the University of California (Santa Barbara). In 1972 she married the American musician Peter Mark and has lived in the United States of America ever since, where she has held many notable positions, including a distinguished professorship at City University, New York, from 1987 until 2002.

Musgrave’s style has been described as a synthesis of expression and abstraction, noted for its drama and complexity, often with a strong romantic undercurrent. Her many works include several operas, including ones devoted to Mary Queen of Scots, the abolitionist and social activist Harriet Tubman and the statesman Simón Bolívar, as well as many concerti and orchestral works, often inspired by poetic and pictorial themes. As well as working in America, she has made frequent visits to the United Kingdom and Europe, including taking part in the BBC’s ‘total immersion’ weekend devoted to her works in London in 2014. She composed the scores for two ballets, Beauty and the Beast in 1969 and Orfeo in 1975. Thea Musgrave has received many honours, including two Guggenheim Fellowships and many honorary degrees. She was awarded a CBE for services to music in 2002.

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This ‘voice’ of British Ballet is that of Pamela May. She was born in 1917 and after retiring as a ballerina with The Royal Ballet became the teacher par excellence for generations of Royal Ballet School dancers. May, interviewed by Patricia Linton, starts this clip by describing being a student herself in 1932 and watching Adeline Genée, the great Danish ballerina, and also the first President of the Royal Academy of Dance, perform a minuet with Anton Dolin on tour in Copenhagen. The interview is introduced by the writer and critic Alastair Macaulay who gives a wonderful context and explains how Ninette de Valois became known as "Madam."

Pamela (Doris) May was born in San Fernando, Trinidad in 1917, where her father was an oil engineer. The family returned to England in 1921. She first studied ballet with Freda Grant, and later in Paris with Olga Preobrajenska, Lubov Egorova and Mathilde Kschessinska. She joined the Vic-Wells Ballet School in 1933 and made her debut with the Vic-Wells Ballet in the pas de trois from Swan Lake in 1934.

May became a principal with company and danced the whole gamut of the repertoire, including creating many roles, until she retired from dancing ballerina roles in 1952. She then became a leading mime and character artist and stayed with what became known as The Royal Ballet in this capacity until 1982. All this happened alongside her teaching at The Royal Ballet School from 1954 until 1977. Pamela May was appointed OBE for services to dance in 1977. She died in 2005.

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A conversation Mary Clarke, former editor of Dancing Times. It is thanks to her godson, Jerome Monahan, that we have this evocative and informative interview with Mary Clarke. Writer extraordinaire on all aspects of ballet, she hated the sound of her own voice and even more the look of her transcript. In these few minutes, however, she manages to convey the feeling of several eras, and of many people and happenings. She also explains, in her low-key erudite way, how the word ‘balletomane’ entered the English language. Mary is interviewed by her friend, the former Royal Ballet soloist Meryl Chappell, and the interview is introduced by Jonathan Gray, former editor of Dancing Times, who worked closely with Mary during her later years.

Mary Clarke was the dance historian and writer par excellence. Her two books on the birth of British ballet in the 20th Century - The Sadler’s Wells Ballet: A History and Appreciation (London, 1955) and Dancers of Mercury: The Story of Ballet Rambert (London, 1962) - remain the starting point for all future historians of ballet in the UK.

Mary Clarke was born in London in 1923. After her schooling at Mary Datchelor School, she worked as a typist at Reuter’s Press Agency. She was a youthful enthusiast for ballet and all things theatrical, and her career as a ballet critic and journalist began in 1943 with her first published article (prophetically for Dancing Times) and with her appointment in the same year as London correspondent for the American Dance Magazine. After the end of the war Clarke wrote for the London-based Ballet Today magazine. From the mid-1950s until 1970 she was also the London correspondent for Dance News, another American publication, which was then run by the distinguished critic and writer Anatole Chujoy. In 1954 Clarke became the assistant editor of Dancing Times, first under Philip Richardson and then for Arthur Franks. On Franks’ sudden death in 1963, Clarke became editor of Dancing Times, a post she held until her retirement in 2010. For over half a century she chronicled the changing trends in ballet and dance worldwide and their effects with impeccable judgement and an encyclopaedic knowledge.

Clarke was dance critic for The Guardian newspaper from 1977 to 1994 and associate editor (with Arnold L Haskell) for many years of the Ballet Annual. She co-authored a range of books with the ballet critic and writer, Clement Crisp, notably Ballet: An Illustrated History (London, 1973) and The Encyclopaedia of Dance and Ballet (London, 1977) with David Vaughan. Her quiet demeanour and straightforward style belied deep thought and high ambition for the art. Her contributions to A Dictionary of Modern Ballet (London, 1959) are awe-inspiring in their clarity and humanity, qualities rare in a critic. She was awarded the Queen Elizabeth II Coronation Award of the Royal Academy of Dance in 1990, Poland’s Nijinsky Medal in 1996, and she was made a Knight of the Order of Dannebrog in 1992. Mary Clarke died in 2015.

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In this podcast, the dancer and teacher Leo Kersley discusses his formative years in London in the 1930s and the many different companies he eventually worked with during the Second World War, including a stint at the Windmill Theatre. Talking to Patricia Linton, director of Voices of British Ballet, he also mentions how, as a conscientious objector, he was briefly imprisoned at the start of the war. The interview is introduced by Jane Pritchard.

Leo Kersley was born in poverty in Hertfordshire in 1920. His family having moved to London, he studied dance under a number of teachers, including Marie Rambert at the Mercury Theatre in 1934, dancing professionally from time to time. He was a soloist in Ballet Rambert from 1936 to 1939, and in 1939 worked for the Ballet Trois Arts.

On the outbreak of World War Two in 1939, he registered as a conscientious objector and was briefly imprisoned. On his release, during 1940 and 1941 he combined his work in a hospital with dancing for Rambert in the evenings alongside his first wife, Celia Franca. He was a member of Sadler’s Wells Ballet from 1941-1942, and then the International Ballet. He was a member of the Anglo-Polish Ballet from 1942-1943. From 1945 until 1951 Kersley performed with Sadler’s Wells Theatre Ballet. 

In 1952, Kersley went to teach in Denver, Colorado, and in 1953 to Rotterdam in The Netherlands. Whilst there he danced with a number of companies but returned to England in 1959 to set up his own school in Harlow, which he ran until his second wife, Janet Sinclair. With Sinclair, who died in 1999, he published the well-regarded Dictionary of Ballet Terms in 1952.   

Photo

Anne Heaton (as A Serving maid), Leo Kersley (as A Shepherd) in THE GODS GO A'BEGGING; Sadler's Wells Opera Ballet; at Sadler's Wells Theatre, London UK 1946;

Credit : Frank Sharman / Royal Opera House / ArenaPAL.com

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You can hear in her voice how much Lucette Aldous appreciated and revelled in every step of her way from Ballet Rambert to Festival Ballet and The Royal Ballet. There’s a fascinating glimpse of the young Kenneth MacMillan and later the mindfulness of the much older John Field. In conversation with Patricia Linton, Lucette speaks about joining – and then leaving – Ballet Rambert; about working in Festival Ballet with John Gilpin and being taken under Anton Dolin’s wing, especially for Giselle; about how, when she went to The Royal Ballet, Field ‘wrapped his ballerinas in cotton wool’; and about how MacMillan’s earlier approach to choreography differed in his later ballets. The interview is introduced by Deborah Weiss.

Lucette Aldous was born in New Zealand in 1939, but lived in Sydney, Australia, from the age of three months. After studying in Sydney, she won a scholarship to study at The Royal Ballet School in 1955. She joined Ballet Rambert in 1957, being promoted to ballerina in 1958. She went to Festival Ballet in 1963, dancing with John Gilpin, and then in 1967, at the behest of John Field, to The Royal Ballet.

Aldous returned to Australia in 1970 and joined The Australian Ballet. When there she was invited to work with the Kirov Ballet, one of the first Australian dancers to be so honoured. Acclaimed in many ballerina roles of all parts of the repertoire, her partnerships with Rudolf Nureyev in The Nutcracker for The Royal Ballet and in Don Quixote for The Australian Ballet were noteworthy. She retired from dancing in 1976, subsequently teaching in Perth, Western Australia. In 2018 Lucette Aldous was made a Companion of the Order of Australia. She died in 2021.

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In conversation with Alastair Macaulay in 2019, Kenneth Tharp conveys a multitude of observations, along with historical content, and both personal and professional insights. He paints a picture of a vibrant moment in the unfolding of dance history in this country and all the key people of this moment are there. The interview is introduced by Alastair Macaulay.

Kenneth Olumuyiwa Tharp, a key figure in UK arts and culture, was born in Croydon in 1960, with a Nigerian father and an English mother. He attended the Perse School, Cambridge, and the Cambridge College of Arts and Technology, before training at the London Contemporary Dance School, graduating in 1981. When the LCDS began offering degrees he returned to study whilst a member of the London Contemporary Dance Theatre and gained a first-class degree in 1987.

He performed professionally as a dancer for 25 years, first with the London Contemporary Dance Theatre (from 1981 until 1994) and then with Arc Dance Company (from 1994 to 2005). He was co-director of Artyfartyarts, a multidisciplinary arts group, and he has choreographed over 45 dances. He was chief executive of The Place from 2007 until 2016, and director of The Africa Centre, London from 2018 to 2020. He has worked with The Royal Ballet School’s Dance Partnership and Access Programme as a choreographer, teacher, director and advisor, and taught for many years at The Royal Ballet School’s Summer School at White Lodge. Among many other roles in the arts, he has served on the board of the Royal Opera House, and as a trustee of Matthew Bourne’s New Adventures Company and the Chineke! Foundation and Orchestra. Kenneth Olumuyima Tharp was appointed an OBE in 2003 and a CBE in 2017, both for services to dance.

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