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The interview with Irina Tarsis took place before the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Irina is a Russian-speaking American, with Ukrainian and Jewish roots. The events we are witnessing now in connection with the war in Ukraine are heartbreaking. Glory and Peace to Ukraine and Forgiveness and Awakening to Russia.

Cover art: photograph taken in Kyiv art gallery/store circa 2020 by Irina Tarsis.

To support the Center for Art Law’s mission and to learn more about its offerings, please visit the Center for Art Law’s website. 

SHOW NOTES:

0:00  Irina Tarsis’ decision to attend law school to study art law

1:42  Tarsis’ reasons for pursuing art law

3:05 her work with Soviet nationalizations in the context of law libraries

4:15 Tarsis began studing art history 

4:34  Founding Center for Art Law 

5:17  Center’s growth 

7:20  Center’s Judith Bresler Fellowship 

9:24  Center’s legacy and estate planning clinic 

12:51  clinic’s artists feature series. 

13:42  Artist Molly Dougenis 

14:16  Dougenis’ estate planning

15:00  next clinic about artists dealer relationships with a focus on New York law and will include resale royalty.

16:44  recent NFT case filed in Southern District of New York that involves the Guernica of India 

17:30  many contracts include reference to all future media now known or to be to be invented down the line 

18:00 suit involving Quentin Tarantin’s attempt to mint NFTs 

18:48 future cases in art law 

20:33 teaching at Sotheby's and FIT

23:09  Tarsis’ work with the European Shoah Legacy Institute

24:15  provenance research 

26:50 Portrait of Wally 

28:00  Center’s future mission

30:16 Knoedler Gallery story 

31:45  idea for a Knoedler award 

33:03  creation of a community of artists, art fans, art aficionados, and collectors and attorneys

34:30 fundraising efforts

36:13  career positions in art law

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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The featured image is titled My Mississippi Morning, Andrew Smith. Image: © and TM Andrew Smith. All rights reserved.

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

Send us a text

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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The following are links used in preparation of this episode:

https://forbiddenmusic.org/2014/06/23/the-woman-who-educated-vienna-eugenie-schwarzwald-1872-1940/

https://www.encyclopedia.com/women/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/schwarzwald-eugenie-1872-1940

To view rewards for supporting the podcast, please visit Warfare's Patreon page.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast, please call 1.929.260.4942 or email [email protected]. 

© Stephanie Drawdy [2022]

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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For more information, please visit the website of Jai Chakrabarti.

SHOW NOTES:

2:15 Chakrabarti’s inspiration for A Play For the End of the World

3:30 Rabindranath Tagore’s play The Post Office

8:00 memoir by survivor of Janusz Korczak’s orphanage titled The Last Korczak Boy

8:30 injustices in 1942 Warsaw 

10:00 The Post Office performed in 1940s Warsaw to uplift compared with exploitation through its performance in 1970s India 

11:15 Chakrabarti’s inspiration from Tagore’s play 

12:20 theme of intergeneration trauma in Chakrabarti’s book

13:20 Bessel van der Kolk’s The Body Keeps the Score and Rabbi Dr. Firestone’s Wounds Into Wisdom: Healing Intergenerational Jewish Trauma

14:30 assumption that gravity of the book would be 1942 Warsaw

16:00 research for book

17:15 Jhumpa Lahiri’s The Lowland

17:40 Lawrence Langer’s collection titled Art From the Ashes

18:25 character journaling process

19:30 questions asked of characters

21:00 reader feedback

22:30 value of art in times of conflict as a healing balm

23:30 Tagore poem translated into a Yiddish song in 1930s Warsaw

24:45 challenges of dual timelines in A Play For the End of the World

26:00 thematic repetition edited out

27:15 most revised scene during escape from train en route to Treblinka

28:30 social justice aspect of A Play For the End of the World

29:30 recommendation of collected short stories by Tagore

30:00 A Home In The World by Tagore

30:30 The Foreign Student by Susan Choi

30:50 The Lowland

31:40 use of a system in drafting a dual timeline novel

32:15 reason for writing story as a novel versus short story

33:30 death of Archbishop Desmond Tutu

33:40 music of Miriam Makeba and Hugh Masekela used to end apartheid

34:00 each piece of art can allow for conditions by which social change can occur

35:40 Playwright Safdar Hashmi whose theatre work in the 1960s and 70s directly advocated for economic and social improvement for the laborers of India

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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The featured image is titled Ahh...Youth! (2015 - ongoing), Sergio Muñoz Sarmiento. Ink jet print. Image: © and TM Sergio Muñoz Sarmiento. All rights reserved.

For more information, please visit the websites for Sergio Muñoz Sarmiento and The Art & Law Program.

0:06  routes taken by students wanting to pursue art law 

1:00 “gatekeepers” of art law

3:00  Sergio Sarmiento’s experience practicing art seriously since 1992, 

3:45 global expansion of art law practice 

4:10 former student in Seoul, Korea applying to law school there to do art law in Korea 

5:00 artists’ reliance on the law

6:00  protecting artist's rights through contract, as opposed to encouraging federal legislation in relation to resale royalties.

7:25  NFTs denied definition as art.    

9:10 reason for picking medium of NFT 

10:25 1970s pet rock 

13:00 1992 undergrad at the University of Texas at El Paso 

14:30 1995 CalArts 

15:25 teaching at University of Southern California 

15:50 focus on the concept of private property and public property

16:15 originally applied to law school as an art project

16:50 springboard for creating The Art & Law Program occurred during law school 

18:20 evolution of The Art & Law Program’s mission since 2010

22:35  skeptical now of art that that attempts or believes that it is critiquing the system

26:40 the necessity of the political mural 

29:40 how his perspective has changed on what is art and its value 

34:00  book project

36:20  National Basketball Association NFTs and terms of service

39:00   Art & Law Coloring Book 

44:20 how culture and justice addressed in Program

45:35 justice shown by example through cases read 

45:50 how justice is defined 

46:10 is justice provisional and bridge 

46:35 if justice is unachievable, is that why people are in a perpetual state of misery

47:00 diversity in Program

48:00 current cultural powers thwarting or facilitating justice 

49:00 museums’ use of their cultural power with social projects 

50:00 if art is everything, then art is nothing. If museums are everything, then museums are nothing. 

50:30  lecturer of The Art & Law Program questioning artist's work about immigration

52:15 plumbing services as art

53:30 acceptance of other forms or types of artistic activity doing social good institutionalizes that practice

54:45 what he would do differently would go back to 1997

56:10 impact he hope that his work, including the work with the Program, makes

56:30 practice as artist without institutional affiliation

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

Send us a text

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

Send us a text

To learn more, please visit the websites of Terezín Music Foundation and its project Our Will to Live.

SHOW NOTES:
00:02:45 Foundation of Terezín Music Foundation

00:06:30 Our Will To Live

00:08:30 Ullmann as guide through Terezin’s cultural community 

00:09:35 Otto Weininger

00:12:20 Ullmann’s essays on Sigmund Schul included in Our Will To Live

00:13:30 Ullmann’s critiques of Carman and Verdi’s Requiem

00:14:45 Viktor Frankl

00:18:40 Council of Elders member Karel Herman

00:22:50 smuggling musical instruments

00:24:55 Ullmann’s critique of performance by Karel Švenk

00:26:05 knowledge of environment and history of creators enriches understanding of their work

00:26:10 George Horner

00:29:15 Yo-Yo Ma’s work with TMF

00:30:45 Yo-Yo Ma and George Horner’s performance at Boston’s Symphony Hall

00:32:45 Ludwig’s performance of Klein’s Lullabye for Dalai Lama at US Capital and in Sarajevo after seige

00:33:20 Our Will To Live as a work of historical justice

00:33:50 Primo Levy’s The Drowned and The Saved

00:35:00 How tracks for Our Will To Live were choosen

00:35:40 Karel Berman's performance of “A Sleepless Night” from Four Songs on Chinese poetry

00:36:00 cabaret works by Karel Svenk

00:37:15 Tracks of the month by OWTL

00:38:15 TMF’s ‘Finding A Voice’ program curriculum

00:39:55 enabling individuals to find their voice 

00:40:50 social justice and the voice of society

00:41:20 voices of Ullmann, Hans Krása,  Gideon Klein

00:42:05 Friedl Dicker-Brandeis 

00:44:50 Pavel Haas’ “A Sleepless Night” from Four Songs on Chinese Poetry

00:46:20 Gideon Klein’s String Trio, Second movement

00:46:55 Ullmann’s Third String Quartet

00:47:40 Hans Krása’s children's opera Brundibar 

00:48:10 Krása’s Passacaglia and Fugue for String Trio 

00:48:50 Picasso’s Guernica

00:49:30 Ullmann’s Don Quixote Overture 

00:51:10 TMF’s legacy

00:55:40  Track 27 Viktor Ullmann, Third String Quartet [13:38] (Terezín, 1943)
performed by Hawthorne String Quartet

01:09:45 Track 11 Gideon Klein, String Trio, Movement II — Theme and Variations [07:17] (Terezín, 1944), performed by Ronan Lefkowitz, violin; Mark Ludwig, viola; Sato Knudsen, cello

01:17:45 Track 12 Gideon Klein, String Trio, Movement III — Molto Vivace [03:04] (Terezín, 1944) performed by Ronan Lefkowitz, violin; Mark Ludwig, viola; Sato Knudsen, cello

01:21:05 Track 16 Pavel Haas, Four Songs on Chinese Poetry (for Karel Berman) “A Sleepless Night” (Han Yu [14:11] (Terezín, 1944) performed by Karel Berman, baritone, and Přemsyl Charnát, piano, November 1991 Czech Radio broadcast of a concert featuring Terezín composers in the Jewish Town Hall, Prague.

01:25:10 Track 29 Karel Švenk, “Why Does the Black Man Sit at the Back of the Car?” [01:16] (Terezín, 1943) Arrangement by David L. Post; performed by Thomas Martin, clarinet, and Hawthorne String Quartet

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

Send us a text

Please visit the websites for Whitworth Art Gallery, Manchester Art Gallery, Decentralizing Political Economies, and Arte Útil to learn more.

2:00 Evolution Whitworth and Manchester Galleries’ mission

4:30 Use of art as a process for social change

5:00 Manchester Art Gallery

5:45 Whitworth Gallery

6:50 Healthy mind, body and spirit agenda

7:50 Platt Hall redevelopment

12:00 Pub as art center in Cumbria

14:00 Museum 3.0

16:30 Arte Útil and Cuban Artist Tania Bruguera 

18:10 Whitworth’s Office of Arte Útil

20:00 Aplicación Legal’s use of legal loopholes

20:58 Núria Güell’s Degenerate Art Protocol

22:00 Núria Güell’s project involving loophole that allowed occupation of Tower block in Spain after removing doors

23:30 Decentralizing Political Economies research platform

23:50 Joy Forever exhibition – based on Social Reformer John Ruskin’s 1857 two-day lecture on economy as making the right conditions for living 

24:55 Interplay between art and economy is fundamental to the way we develop society - how to see the world truthfully and then act ethically 

25:25 Art defined as what’s done with care and consideration 

26:05 Economics the Blockbuster exhibition

26:35 Reclaiming art as the operating system for our living conditions, as good housekeeping

27:50 Decentralizing Political Economies platform

28:30 NFT of William Blake’s The Ancient of Days

30:40 Proceeds of Blake NFT to be used for social programmes

31:41 Story of NFT to be used in exhibition 

33:15 U.S. Artist Suzanne Lacy’s current show at The Whitworth

34:05 SF MoMA’s version of a Suzanne Lacy retrospective

34:35 Lacy’s What Kind of City? A Manual for Social Change

36:10 Lacy’s Oakland Projects to be used for a new project in Manchester to give youths agency

37:55 Lacy’s Uncertain Futures project to be used for better working rights for women over 50 years old 

39:10 Capacity for change with individuals involved in and benefiting from these projects 

42:30 These projects are elegant demonstrations of why art matters

42:50 Art world individuals who have a vested interest in the status quo are sometimes the ones who criticize these types of projects

43:20 Social justice at the center of these projects 

43:50 The Whitworth and Manchester Galleries’ design as social instruments 

44:10 The beauty of ethics and equitable relationships 

45:00 Use of museums’ cultural power

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

Send us a text

The featured image is titled The Ascension of Yemoja, 2017, Nnebundo Obi. Image: © and TM Nnebundo Obi. All rights reserved.

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]