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The following are links used to prepare this episode:

https://verlorene-generation.com/en/kuenstler/berg-else/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Else_Berg

http://www.arthurkampf.de/biographie/arthur-kampf-biographie_en.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mommie_Schwarz

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2022]

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Music by Toulme.

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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Cover image: Ben Kinmont and the Antinomian Press at Section Seven Books, Paris, printing Project Series: Lee Lozano.

For more information, please visit the websites for Antinomian Press, Ben Kinmont Bookseller, Ben Kinmont's projects and his gallery page.

SHOW NOTES:

0:00 artist / attorney collaboration

3:30 initial art practice in NYC 

3:50  work with antiquarian bookseller focused on medicine/science

4:20 antiquarian bookselling business - Sometimes a nicer sculpture is to be able to provide a living for your family

5:00 Occupational realism - term by Julia Bryant Wilson

5:35 Kinmont’s practice included painting, video, sculpture, photography 

5:50 NYC/Cologne street project I am for you, ich bin fur sie - 3  sculptures

6:15 “The Social Sculpture” - Joseph Beuys

6:40 ‘The Thinking Sculpture’ - William James 

7:10 cognitive process as a sculptural process

7:25 “The Third Sculpture”

8:00 I Am For You 

9:00 Christo’s public projects about conversations with farmers/coastal commission 

10:35 The Materialization of Life Into Alternative Economies 

11:45 Antinomian Press 

14:40 economic precarity subtheme

15:10 theme of art in everyday life, what we can and can’t call art

16:00 Borders of what can and cannot be called art 

17:45 NYU Draper Institute lecture to grad class of anthropology 

19:00 cultural differences in interviewing NYC and Cologne individuals

21:15 archives of his projects led to his interest in contracts and Promised Relations: or, thoughts on a few artists’ contracts? 

24:20 Tilted Arc contract 

24:30 Felix Gonzalez-Torres’ certificates

25:30 Kinmont’s contract

25:40 Attorney Jerry Ordover

25:55 Seth Seigelab and Bob Projansky artist contract

29:45 MoMA Department of Prints and Drawing’s purchase of Antinomian Press archive

31:40 why artists shy from contracts

36:45 circa 1990 - Trust as Sculpture – strangers invited to waffle breakfast in Kinmont’s home 

38:15 understand history to create discourse around your experience

40:00 feedback from An Exhibition In Your Mouth

41:45 social/political meaning behind the study of gastronomy

42:50 Inter-sectionality of gastronomy with women’s studies, economic history, ethnography, class, medicine, health

44:40 Gastronomy and Economic Precarity

45:50 FBI’s attacks on the Black Panther’s Free Breakfast Programs

46:50 San Quintin death row inmate’s inquiry about publishing  Death Row Cookbook

48:50 his projects addressing injustice  

50:25 Ethical Considerations in Project Art Practice 

51:10 justice

51:50 2011 Carl Andre Killed His Wife Ana Mendieta

53:00 Olivier Mosset bought and later returned it

54:25 Andre’s involvement in Art Workers Coalition Group/work using proletariat mater

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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Cover Image: "The Boardroom Was Taken", oil on aluminum, 28"x22" Copyright Stefania Salles Bruins 2022.

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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Please visit the following links to learn more:
Shahn’s sketches for Rikers Island;
Correctional History discussion of Shahn;
Lucienne Bloch, Cycle of a Woman’s Life: Childhood:
Shahn’s photo of an incarcerated painter at Blackwell’s Island;
Larry Cook, The Visiting Room and Urban Landscapes;
Groundswell murals at Rikers;
Handwritten survey responses in the Shahn Papers at the Archives of American Art.

SHOW NOTES:
2:00 Ben Shahn’s and Lou Block’s proposed Rikers Island Penitentiary murals for the New Deal 

4:45 West wall’s mural representing prison reform

6:05 East wall’s mural of prisons in need of reform

8:20 New York’s Municipal Art Commission rejects murals as psychologically unfit for prisoners and as anti-social propaganda 

9:00 1935 survey of Blackwell Island prisoners about murals

11:35 one incarcerated man likened Shahn’s murals to Diego Rivera’s Rockefeller Center mural

12:40 concerns about making incarcerated life a spectacle

14:10 responses by Ben Shahn and Lou Block to survey

17:20 utility of survey for art historians

19:10 survey archive

21:30 Ben Shahn’s New Deal Murals: Jewish Identity in the American Scene by Diana Linden

22:10 Ben Shahn’s New York by Harvard Art Musuems

22:50 Art for the Millions: Essays from the 1930s by artists and administrators of the WPA Project by Francis O’Connor includes material from Lucienne Bloch

23:10 Bloch’s “Cycle of a Woman’s Life” accepted for WPA Project in 1935

23:50 Bloch’s primary sources quote from letters by incarcerated females 

29:30 Harold Lehman’s Man’s Daily Bread erected at Rikers and later removed

35:20 Faith Ringgold’s 1971 For the Women’s House

37:00 Reception to Ringgold’s For the Women’s House by male incarcerated population 

38:45 2012 Prison Landscapes by Alyse Emdur

42:10 Antoine Ealy’s opinion of prison landscapes

43:20 utility of murals in correctional institutions

44:15 Nicole Fleetwood’s book and exhibition Marking Time: Art in the Age of Mass Incarceration

45:00 Shahn’s photograph of incarcerated man painting portrait at Blackwell’s Island 

47:30 Utility of art as a direct and didactic tool 

51:00 how a focus on art in correction facilities aids in facilitating justice 

56:00 Marking Time includes incarcerated and non-incarcerated artists

56:20 Artist Larry Cook

 57:30 Groundswell NYC

58:20 How Nowocki defines justice 

59:20 Mariame Kaba’s view of justice in terms of accountability as compared with punishment

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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Nothing But Art by Regine Sondermann and the following links were used in preparation of this episode:

https://www.lostwomenart.de/en/artist/elfriede-lohse-wachtler/

https://womeningermanexpressionism.com/2018/07/11/elfriede-lohse-wachtler/

https://gseart.com/artist/elfriede-lohse-wachtler/bio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4heWql2celU

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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Cover photo of Miki Garcia by Alonso Parra.

Please visit the website for Undoing Time: Art and Histories of Incarceration at ASU's Art Museum and at Berkeley Art Museum to learn more.

1:30 ASU Art Museum’s mission as a learning institution that centers art and artists in the service of social good and community well-being

2:40 inspiration for Undoing Time: Art and Histories of Incarceration exhibition as a cultural mark in time for ASU Art Museum 

6:40 effort to address all dimensions of an exhibition on mass incarceration and its impact on viewers

8:00 Art for Justice Fund’s involvement in exhibition 

9:05 prior exhibition with artist Gregory Sale who worked with incarcerated populations

9:15 Contemporary Art Museum Houston and Nicole Fleetwood’s work with the Walls Turned Sideways: Artists Confront the Justice System exhibition 

10:20 Undoing Time’s focus began with a survey of how incarceration has been portrayed through images from the 18th Century Code of Hammurabi forward

11:30 12 artists invited to create commissions for Undoing Time, including Mario Ybarra, Jr. who created a pizza parlor vignette that dealt with Ybarra’s childhood friend Richard who later was incarcerated on a murder charge

13:20 rehabilitation was shown in Ybarra’s work that’s not shown in historical images of incarceration 

13:55 Stephanie Syjuco’s commission abstracted images of black and brown incarcerated population

15:10 Juan Brenner’s commission about the Guatemalan Highlands and how the U.S. West Coast prison system gang culture was exported to Central America

16:10 destruction of Guatemalan Highlands’ residence due to erection of prison that houses Mara Salvatrucha gang

17:25 architecture of prisons, e.g, the panopticon, the fortress

18:00 Indigenous artists Raven Chacon and Cannupa Hanska Luger 

19:15 Luger’s commission focus on the relationship of land to mass incarceration

19:25 Mass Liberation Arizona’s mission of people over property

21:00 Theater maker and Playwright Michael Rohd choreographed going through the exhibition 

22:55 Raven Chacon’s musical composition about a juvenile detention center

24:10 Rohd’s positing of questions and cards for viewer feedback 

26:45 Art for Justice Fund to ASU poet Natalie Diaz and the Center for Imagination in the Borderlands

30:00 undergoing critique of the purpose and operation of museums 

33:30 museums are civic institutions of dialogue, engagement and storytelling and should be responsible to the communities they serve

35:30 art’s power to challenge inherited narratives about incarceration 

37:15 how she sees her legacy to eliminate as many boundaries as possible and uphold all kinds of art forms and include more voices and to open up what a museum can be and who it’s actually for

39:20 evolution of her definition of justice 

40:45 justice has to be fought for 

40:55 justice as public love

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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Please visit Dr. Greenspan's website to learn more.

Show Notes:

00:00 impression of survivor about Greenspan’s representation of their story 

03:00 1970s interview for psychologist 

04:20 depth rather than breadth of his interviews with Holocaust survivors

6:25 collaborative meetings with survivors

7:00 Agi Rubin described good interviews as learning together

9:00 Process of creating courses, books, plays from conversations with survivors

13:45 Greenspan’s dissertation topic on this became his life’s work

15:10 Agi Rubin: I’m not a “Survivor” as a category.

18:35 On Listening to Holocaust Survivors: Beyond Testimony

19:00 Leon’s recollection of murder of Paul Lieberman

22:10 Leon’s correction that his recollection is not a story; it must be made a story

25:30 Remnants  

29:50 Reflections: Auschwitz, Memory and a Life Recreated

35:40 Death/Play or the Mad Jester of the Warsaw Ghetto

41:20 source material for Death/Play or the Mad Jester of the Warsaw Ghetto

44:40 short play Gravediggers involving the Ukraine 

47:20 Greenspan’s view of injustice 

48:00 His work is ‘disposable people’ studies

49:40 Corruption

53:00 what we do together is where hope is

53:45 per Agi Rubin, legacy is not up to her

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

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© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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This episode was prepared with information included here.

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]

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For those interested in obtaining a copy of Contested Heritage Removing Art From Land and Historic Buildings by Richard Harwood QC, Catherine Dobson and David Sawtell, please visit the publisher’s website and use code P8W4VZ for a 10% discount.

Show Notes:
00:00 overview of Contested Heritage – Removing Art From Land and Historic Buildings

2:10 Lucien Freud mural of flower; removed from a house that was a listed building

3:14 Rustat Memorial plaque at Jesus College chapel

5:00 What is meant by contested heritage

5:50 co-authors Catherine Dobson and David Sawtell

6:00 dispute over public memorialization of certain person/events 

8:20 whether work is part of building/who owns/to what extent it’s subject to listed building control

9:05 Dill case

10:15 pair of 18th C. lead urns by Flemish sculptor John van Nost in Wrest Park

12:00 2015 - planning authority learn urns not at Idlicote House; issue enforcement notice for their return

17:20 regulatory issues/export licensing 

17:50 property ownership

19:00 Old Flo case

19:30 London Borough of Tower Hamlets v. London Borough of Bromley

19:40 Henry Moore statue Draped Seated Woman

21:20 purpose of annexation 

27:00 listed building control

28:00 main considerations for authorities faced with application for removal of contested statue or other memorial or work of art

29:00 for listed buildings, strong presumption to protect special architectural/historic interest 

30:00 Public Sector Equality Duty

31:00 Jen Reid statute appeal

32:35 Rustat Memorial case 

37:40 Colston case 

38:40 Colston – late 17th C. deputy governor of Royal African Company ran slave trade/benefactor of Bristol

40:45 ‘Colston 4’ trial – individuals charged with criminal damage/acquitted

41:00 acquittal now on appeal by Attorney General’s reference on lawfulness of some lines of defence run, including question of right to freedom of expression and extent that can justify attacking property

41:45 ‘retain and explain’ policy

43:10 changes to planning and listed building procedures 

44:35 Cecil Rhodes statues and other memorials in Oxford

46:35 Rhodes commemorative plaque in Oxford recently listed by Secretary of State 

46:45 increased public awareness about these issues 

47:15 Arts education charity, Art UK recent catalogue of 13,500 British public sculpture - only 2% commemorate people of colour

48:35 public art 

49:45 Old Flo example of post-war public authority support for public art

50:00 developers recently encouraged to include public art, e.g., Desert Quartet Sculptures by Dame Elisabeth Frink placed in back of Worthing shopping center and now a listed building

51:50 Ulster Defence Regiment memorial in Lisburn, N. Ireland includes a female 

53:00 National Windrush Monument in Waterloo Station commemorates arrival of Caribbean migrants after WWII

54:20 political issues about colonialism and empire involved with cultural heritage dispute

Please share your comments and/or questions at [email protected]

Music by Toulme.

To hear more episodes, please visit Warfare of Art and Law podcast's website.

To leave questions or comments about this or other episodes of the podcast and/or for information about joining the 2ND Saturday discussion on art, culture and justice, please message me at [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening!

© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]