We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, and concerns for us to address in future episodes.

We hope you enjoy We Make Books!

Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap

Instagram: @WMBCast 

Patreon.com/WMBCast

 

Episode Transcript (by TK @_torkz)

[Upbeat Ukulele Intro Music]This is We Make Books, a podcast about writing publishing and everything in between. Rekka is a published Science Fiction and Fantasy author, and Kaelyn is a professional genre fiction editor. Together, they'll tackle the things you never knew you never knew about getting a book from concept to finished product, with explanations, examples, and a lot of laughter. Get your moleskin notebook ready. It's time for We Make Books.

We Make Books Ep. 62 Transcription

After intro: [00:26]

Kaelyn: We’re talking today about reader tension and tense situations and managing these things. And you know getting the, kinda grabbing everyone and wanting to be like ‘this is important and there’s peril and stakes here, and you should pay attention to this.’

Rekka: This was another topic that was suggested to us by an uncredited listener, because I failed to write down all the people who suggested a very long list of topics that we will be going through. So I apologize, feel free to @ us on Twitter and take credit for the topic. But the original question posed was how to manage reader stress, and I assume they mean the tension and anxiety that our reader feels as they go through your plot. Because, as Kaelyn pointed out, you don’t want to get so anxious and wound up over a plot that you can’t finish the story and you need to protect yourself for self care reasons and back away.

K: We’re interpreting this question as not managing the external stress of readers. There’s generally not a lot a book or an author can do about that, so please don’t try.

R: Although! A good book can really help you escape.

K: Absolutely, yes. Maybe a book that’s just full of pictures of puppies.

R: Also good!

K: Yeah.

R: Yeah. So, the anxiety and tension that we’re talking about is being cast upon the reader intentionally to draw them into your story. But how do you make sure you don’t go too far, and how do you ramp up tension where you want it so that they aren’t just kinda reading it and being like ‘I don’t care about any of this.’

K: Building tension is, it’s difficult. For two reasons: one, it’s a hard thing to do in writing, but then two, it’s also very difficult to place it in a story. Let’s qualify here depending on your genre, if you’re writing a suspense thriller that’s just going to be a tense situation [laughing] throughout the book. Most books, I would argue the majority of books, have some sort of conflict in them. There’s going to be a point at which things come to a head. It could be physical, it could be mental, it could be, you know, strictly verbal confrontation. It could be characters that never actually meet but you know were seeing each other’s perspectives as they, I dunno interact over the computer, they’re both trying to hack the same database at the same time. 

K:I have a friend who trains people in various business ventures, and one of the things she always says is “conflict is crucible.” And what she’s kinda saying there is that when you’re trying to solve a problem you have to resign yourself to some conflict, because conflict helps you get information, it helps you understand what you’re looking at, it helps you understand the stakes. And I think that applies well to writing, because the conflict, first of all, builds richer characters, it builds a better storyline, it helps us understand motivations and actions better. But it’s also really engaging. That’s kinda what we’re here for.

R: Yeah, I would say that a story without conflict is going to be a very milquetoast kind of story. It doesn

We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, and concerns for us to address in future episodes.

We hope you enjoy We Make Books!

Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap

Instagram: @WMBCast 

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Episode Transcript (by TK @_torkz)

[Upbeat Ukulele Intro Music]This is We Make Books, a podcast about writing publishing and everything in between. Rekka is a published Science Fiction and Fantasy author, and Kaelyn is a professional genre fiction editor. Together, they'll tackle the things you never knew you never knew about getting a book from concept to finished product, with explanations, examples, and a lot of laughter. Get your moleskin notebook ready. It's time for We Make Books.

Kaelyn: So it’s funny you picked this when I was still studying history, that was something we always had to consider. Is this group, is this person part of determining where they fit into historical context as determining do they have agency? Can they act on their own behalf? Structure is what keeps someone in place; agency is what allows them to act freely.

Rekka: Where would you put Odysseus, in this context?

K: I would make Odysseus a failed attempt at agency.

R: [laughing]

K: Well, maybe failed agency isn’t the right--because he is displaying agency. He’s trying to do something, and he’s having to frequently overcome obstacles. That said, those obstacles are things that keep happening to him, rather than him directly engaging.

R: Right.

K: So it’s a little bit of a, uh.

R: Weird example.

K: No it was a good one, I liked it.

R: No it’s a good example but it’s not a good role model for agency in your novels.

K: Odysseus isn’t a good role model for a lot of reasons.

R [laughing]: That’s just one of them.

K: [laughing]

R: Be the person who ties yourself to the mast, rather than give in to the sirens. Actually fuck it, give in to the sirens. It’s 2021, let’s just go for it.

K [laughing]: That’s a very bad--I feel like 2020 was the year to give into the sirens. [laughing]

R: Yeah, but what is 2021 but 2020 persevering?

K: No, we’re slowly defeating it. We’re claiming some agency for ourselves.

R: I am still in this room.

K: [laughing]

R: I have always been in this room. How are we defeating anything?

K: I think I was born in this room.

R: Kaelyn, have you and I met for smoked meats in a restaurant?

K: We haven’t.

R: Right. So, nothing has changed.

K: Yeah.

R: Have we hung out in a library with random strangers at the same table?

K: No. Some of whom are handwriting books.

R: Yeah, no. This is not happening. So today I called you here to talk about agency.

K: So in that scenario do I have agency? Because I made the decision to join you. But--

R: But--are you allowing this topic to happen? Or are you actively engaging in the expression of our ideas?

K: Oh both.

R: [laughing]

K: Definitely.

R: Once you get past some of the other, like, identify your theme, and helpful advice for writing like that--

K: Strengthen this character arc, you know, the really nice vague feedback.

R: The really helpful, helpful specific feedback. You might also end up hearing that your character needs more agency in a scene, or in the story overall. And as with the others, this can be really helpful advice. If you know what it means.

K: Yeah um, it I think falls into the category of frustratingly vague advice that is absolutely rooted in important context.

R: But it’s also really true.

K: Yes, yeah.

R: Which is just the worst part. There’s nothing worse than vague advice that is also correct.

K: It is vague advice, but I think when you’re dealing with things like ‘work on your character’s agency,’ ‘strengthen this arc,’ ‘identify the themes in your story,’ those are big picture things. So. Definition—as always love to start off with that—uh, agency in general, the definition is “an a

We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, and concerns for us to address in future episodes.

We hope you enjoy We Make Books!

Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap

Instagram: @WMBCast 

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Links for this episode:

Worldbuilding for Masochists Podcast

Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide

Wonderbook by Jeff Vandermeer

Episode Transcript (by TK @_torkz)

[Upbeat Ukulele Intro Music]This is We Make Books, a podcast about writing publishing and everything in between. Rekka is a published Science Fiction and Fantasy author, and Kaelyn is a professional genre fiction editor. Together, they'll tackle the things you never knew you never knew about getting a book from concept to finished product, with explanations, examples, and a lot of laughter. Get your moleskin notebook ready. It's time for We Make Books.

Rekka: She was tuuckered out yesterday. I was tuckered out yesterday. [laughing] The trainer had us running around a field and it was the first time I had done any real, like, quick movements, certainly out in the sun on an 80 degree day, when I had forgotten water for both me and Evie, and the trainer only said “oh I have some in the car,” she only gave it to Evie, she didn’t give me any. But she’s like “jump around! Be active! Be real animated!” And I’m like ohh my goodness, do you not realize, that this is me animated.

 

[both laughing]

 

Rekka: So I was like, how about I lay down and pretend to be a dead squirrel, dogs love dead squirrels. [laughing]

 

Kaelyn: [laughing] Aww.

 

R: So we were all tired yesterday. So today, we are talking about worldbuilding.

 

K: We are.

 

R: We are. We are talking about mostly not overdoing your worldbuilding.

 

K: And because it’s me, we’re certainly going to be talking about some of the elements of worldbuilding as well. Worldbuilding is the process of creating, constructing, and coming up with the rules for an imaginary world, or sometimes an entire fictional universe. There’s a lot of elements that go into this - interesting fact that I found while doing some research for this: the first time “worldbuilding” was used was actually in 1820.

 

R: The term, or..?

 

K: The term “worldbuilding” was first used in 1820 in the Edinburgh Review.

 

R: Okay. 

 

K: Fiction has existed in one form or another all through the course of humanity, obviously, you know, as we got into more recent centuries, literature became a little more organized? I guess? For lack of a better term.

 

R: So that’s the first time it appeared in print as far as we know, in English, and presumably someone would have said it aloud and said “hey that sounds pretty good.”

K: Yeah, you know what, I have to - I’ll try to dig up the article because I am curious but, the Edinburgh Review was, of course, just reviewing published stories and literature and reviews of different things. So the term really gained a lot of traction in the early 1900s when we saw a lot of science fiction and fantasy writing. A really good example, actually of thorough worldbuilding based off of existing history, would probably be Huxley’s Brave New World, and I think that was 1932, I believe. 

 

K: Regardless of where your story is set, what time it’s set, how much you’re using and building off existing human history, or if this takes place in a galaxy far, far away, there’s certain elements you have to have in worldbuilding. One of the good places to start is geography. If it’s Earth: you’re done. No problem. [laughing] You have established that the world is Earth.

 

R: But do you? Do you even say [laughing] that you are writing a story on Earth, if you are on Earth? 

 

K: You name a place that the reader would presumably have context for. If, you know, the story is set in Delhi, India then yes we’re on Earth. Tokyo, places we’ve heard of.

 

R: So i

We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, and concerns for us to address in future episodes.

We hope you enjoy We Make Books!

Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap

Instagram: @WMBCast 

Patreon.com/WMBCast

 

Episode Transcript (by TK @_torkz)

[Upbeat Ukulele Intro Music]This is We Make Books, a podcast about writing publishing and everything in between. Rekka is a published Science Fiction and Fantasy author, and Kaelyn is a professional genre fiction editor. Together, they'll tackle the things you never knew you never knew about getting a book from concept to finished product, with explanations, examples, and a lot of laughter. Get your moleskin notebook ready. It's time for We Make Books.

Kaelyn: Did you get your second shot yet?

 

Rekka: We get it on Saturday.

 

K [mumbling]: Okay.

 

R: ‘Cause cool people get the vaccination.

 

K: You hear that kids? Be cool, get vaccinated.

 

R: Be Extremely cool. Be cool like me. [laughing] I don't know if that’s selling it but-

 

K: [laughing] 

 

R: -that’s what i’m gonna go with.

 

K: I get mine May second. I got the moderna one so I had to wait four weeks and -

 

R: Mhm. Yeah, I get two weeks between mine [loudly] it depends on your publisher.

 

K: [laughing] 

 

K: Speaking of things that come in part two-

 

R: Yep, speaking of duologies-

 

K: The covid duology, oh there we go.

 

R [overlapping]: Yes, well the vaccine duology, not the covid itself-

 

K [overlapping]: Yeah.

 

R: Because you don't wanna get covid and then long covid, that’s one duology. The duology I’m all about is the mRNA duology, let’s do that one.

 

K: We’ve got shots part two coming up here.

 

R: Mhm.

 

K: And you know, in many ways the vaccine is kind of similar to a duology. The first one’s the build up, the first one’s to get you a little bit of a taste there, get your immune system going like “hey, what is this? What's going on? What's happening?” and then the second one, that’s BAM, you know? like-

 

R: That’s when it all happens

 

K: - fully immune. Yeah and that’s [laughing] that’s why everyone’s getting sick from the second one.

 

R: Ugh yeah, I don’t think this metaphor’s gonna last us too much longer. But, we are talking today about duologies.

 

K: As promised.

 

R: Yes, we are following through on the promise, the commitment we made, to follow last episode’s trilogy discussion with a discussion of duologies, and why they are harder than the thing we made sound really hard.

 

K: Yeah, so. You know, last episode we talked about trilogies, and how trilogies can be really challenging, and one of the things we touched on was: if you’re really having a hard time with this, maybe you don’t have a trilogy. Maybe you have a duology. So, a duology, obviously, is a series of two books rather than a trilogy being three, although quadrilogies are becoming a thing now. Four books is getting super common. So, just to clarify some things here. If you’re going “I did not hear the word duology ever, until about a year ago, or so,” you’re right, you didn’t. [laughing] This wasn’t really a very common thing. 

 

R: This wasn’t a thing, there was a book and a sequel but there wasn't a thing called a duology.

 

K: Yeah and by the way, let’s clarify this real quickly here, the difference between a book and a sequel, and a duology. A duology is a story split up into two books. A book and a sequel is, presumably, one complete story and then another complete story.

 

R: In the same world, usually featuring the same characters, spun off somehow.

 

K: Yes.

 

K: Contractual finite book series are kind of a relatively recent thing. You know, for those of you who have been reading science fiction and fantasy for a long time - especially, you know, when it first started, you know, the trade paperbacks and the pulp and everything was really popular - w

We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, and concerns for us to address in future episodes.

We hope you enjoy We Make Books!

Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap

Instagram: @WMBCast 

Patreon.com/WMBCast

 

Episode Transcript 

Rekka (00:00):This is We Make Books, a podcast about writing publishing and everything in between. Rekka is a published Science Fiction and Fantasy author, and Kaelyn is a professional genre fiction editor. Together, they'll tackle the things you never knew you never knew about getting a book from concept to finished product, with explanations, examples, and a lot of laughter. Get your moleskin notebook ready. It's time for We Make Books.

Kaelyn (00:26):Y'know, it's funny because in movie trilogies, I always think it's the third movie that kind of slumps.

Rekka (00:33):Okay. So maybe this is a poorly conceived episode. I don't know. Um, but the impression I have from the person asking us the topic... They did say "writing Book Two in a series of three or more." Assuming that you come out of the gate strong on Book One, you are heading toward some final book, and we'll assume trilogy for the purpose of this conversation.

Kaelyn (01:01):Yeah, I was going to say, because writing Book Two in a planned trilogy is very different than writing Book Two in a, "Oh, we'll see how this goes."

Rekka (01:08):Exactly. Uh, which is my experience of writing Book Twos, both times, even though they're now both trilogies. But anyway, so assuming that it's going to end in the following book, how do you tell a chunk of your story, keep the reader interested by—one supposes that you are ramping up action, and tension and danger and all these? Oop. I've already said something wrong.

Kaelyn (01:40):No, no. I was going to say, I understand the question that they're trying to ask now and whatever they're trying to write should probably be a duology.

Rekka (01:49):Oh no! Okay. That's a separate episode. We already figured that out before we started recording. Assuming that we are going to end this in the following book.

Kaelyn (02:00):Well, that's fine. If we, if we start recording and we talk about this, I can explain what my thinking—

Rekka (02:05):Oh, no, we're recording, and this is the episode now. Cause I phrased it very well and I felt very eloquent. So now we're going to go with it.

Kaelyn (02:10):Oh goodness. Okay. Yeah. So, um, you know, we're talking about second books in trilogies and um, I think that for a lot of authors, this is going to be either the easiest thing they ever write or the hardest thing they ever write. It really depends on how, how your story's going. So if you're asking this question, "I feel like I'm trying to come up with stuff to fill the time in between the beginning and end of my story."

Rekka (02:34):Okay. That's one way to interpret it. I have a second interpretation, but let's talk about that one first.

Kaelyn (02:38):Well, wait, I want to hear your interpretation.

Rekka (02:39):No no no. No, we're gonna go with that.

Kaelyn (02:43):Okay. Um, there there's two reasons writing the second book in a trilogy can be, um, very difficult. One is that what I just said. You're, you feel like you're just trying to come up with, you know, stuff to happen so that you can get to the end of it. And that's what I was— the point I was making that, if that's the case, maybe you shouldn't be writing a trilogy. Maybe you should be writing a duology. Your story is your story. Um, unless you have a contract for a trilogy and they're like, you must generate this. And by the way, I would hope that before you signed that contract, you had discussed, um...

Rekka (03:15):Where the trilogy was going.

Kaelyn (03:18):Yeah, some outlines and some, uh, some story points there. Um, the other reason is you have a beginning and you have an

We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, and concerns for us to address in future episodes.

We hope you enjoy We Make Books!

Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap

Instagram: @WMBCast 

Patreon.com/WMBCast

Titles referenced in this episode:

Ken Follet  https://ken-follett.com/books/

WMB Episode 43 with Antoine Bandele

The Martian by Andy Weir

Into Thin Air by Jon Krakauer

Writing The Other Workshops and Resources

Episode Transcript:

Rekka (00:00):Welcome back to another episode of, we make books, a podcast about writing publishing and everything in between. I am Rekka. I write science fiction and fantasy as RJ Theodore.

Kaelyn (00:11):I'm Kaelyn. I am the acquisitions editor for Parvus Press. And today... So today we're talking about the phrase, "write what you know," and how I dislike it.

Rekka (00:22):Quite a bit. As it turns out.

Kaelyn (00:24):I feel like it can be, without context as Rekka points out in this, a little bit of a cop out. A little bit of a, like, I don't know what to do here. Well, write what you know. Um, as a writing exercise, I think that's fantastic. But as a problem solving technique, I think it's lacking. Now, granted, as we point out, Rekka and I are coming from a genre fiction background, so we don't actually know a ton about aliens yet; we're working on it. So, yeah, I, um, I don't know. I'm not a big fan of the phrase, but, uh, we, you know, get into all different aspects of this. And then we spend a lot of time talking about, okay, well, how do you write what you don't know? And how do you know what you don't know? And if you don't know what you don't know, what do you do about that?

Rekka (01:12):And do— and what if you don't know that you don't know anything, are you allowed to write?

Kaelyn (01:16):Certainly hasn't stopped people.

New Speaker (01:19):That's a, we didn't get into that. So, uh, here comes the music and we'll keep going on this. On the other side.

New Speaker (01:40):I'm running out of cappuccino.

Kaelyn (01:43):Sorry to hear that.

Rekka (01:44):I'm getting very low.

Kaelyn (01:45):So what happens when you've run out of cappuccino?

New Speaker (01:48):I switch to water.

Kaelyn (01:49):But how do you feel?

Rekka (01:52):Um, let me tell you about it... In prose form? Were you trying to make that a segue?

Kaelyn (02:00):Yes, I was.

Rekka (02:00):I was not on the, uh, the wavelength of how that was exactly going to transition.

Kaelyn (02:05):Well, that's because you're running out of cappuccino and you're caffeine deprived and your brain is not working at the, uh, super caffeinated level that you would like it to be.

Rekka (02:13):Gotcha.

Kaelyn (02:14):So if you were writing a character that was in desperate need of coffee...

Rekka (02:18):I would know exactly what to write.

Kaelyn (02:20):Yeah. So today, um, we're talking about the, uh, pervasive and very strange phrase, write what you know. And I say very strange, because everybody seems to have different opinions about what this means. And Rekka and I even have different opinions about what this means.

Rekka (02:38):Well, the people who've said it to me have had different opinions about what it means. Um, sometimes it's somebody saying literally dig into your own life, and that's the only place where your inspiration or subject matter can come from. That kind of precludes the entire genre of science fiction and fantasy.

Kaelyn (03:00):I don't like when people say that, because I think what ends up happening is you have a character or multiple characters that's experiences are limited to your own experiences. And I don't know about you, but I don't want to read a book that's just about me. I'm not interesting enough for that.

Rekka (03:18):Writers already have to struggle to vary their characters enough so that you can identify them by their dia

We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, and concerns for us to address in future episodes.

We hope you enjoy We Make Books!

Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap

Instagram: @WMBCast 

Patreon.com/WMBCast

 

Tools Referenced in this episode:

Grammarly

ProWritingAid

 

Episode Transcript

 

Rekka (00:01):Welcome back to another episode of, we make books, a podcast about writing publishing and everything in between. I'm Rekka. I write science fiction and fantasy as R J Theodore.

Kaelyn (00:10):I'm Kaelyn Considine. I'm the acquisition editor for Pu... Pu... Wait, I'm the acquisitions editor for Parvus Press. And we can edit that out.

Rekka (00:20):Yeah. Is that a line edit?

Kaelyn (00:24):Oh God. You know what? That's a good question. That, uh, I think that would be a line edit. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So today we're talking about editing. Um, I know it's something we've talked about before. I think we, we really were very focused on developmental edits.

Rekka (00:40):Well, sure. Because that's your favorite, right?

Kaelyn (00:43):Yeah. You know, there's, there's different components and different people you're going to encounter through the process of editing a book and they'll all want different things from you and be asking you to change different aspects of the book. So—

Rekka (00:56):Oh, one thing we didn't say: that you are the author and your name goes on the cover. So all of these edits come from people who are hired because this is their specialty. However, this is your story. So it is up to you to stand by these edits. And if you don't feel comfortable standing by the edits, then you should not accept them.

Kaelyn (01:22):Qualifier. I will have there: check your contract. Your book may have been accepted conditionally pending you making certain changes. So there's uh, there's contractual obligations for edits. But you know, as Rekka said, at the end of the day here, his name is on this. We talk a little bit at the end of the episode, about how, you know, people are, might yell at you online about things that you had absolutely no control over. So control the stuff that you can.

Rekka (01:47):Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So anyway, um, there are lots of kinds of edits and they are variably painful each in their own way.

Kaelyn (01:56):Some are far more excruciating than others.

Rekka (02:00):And on the other side of this lovely ditty, we will tell you about them.

Kaelyn (02:17):...that landing devices on Mars is becoming as routine as something like that can be, is, is very, is very cool. So yeah.

Rekka (02:27):Yeah. Speaking of routine. How's that?

Kaelyn (02:33):You've probably heard us say things like developmental edits, copy edits, line edits. And if you're going okay, well, what the heck is all of this art? Don't I just edit the book. No, you don't.

Rekka (02:46):Sometimes you edit the book. Sometimes someone else edits the book, sometimes a third person edits the book. And sometimes you get a stack of pages and you hope that someone edited the book real well.

Kaelyn (03:02):Yes. There's three main kinds of edits. You're going to come across while working on a book and then a fourth step in this order: developmental edits line edits and copy edit. Then after copy, edit, typically comes a proofreading. We're going to go through these step-by-step and instead of giving you definitions upfront, explain what they are as we're walking through them. So Rekka, as somebody who's gone through this process, what would you say your favorite part of all of these edits are? if you had to pick one of the three, what's your favorite?

Rekka (03:36):Page proofs.

Kaelyn (03:39):Really? Even as a writer?

Rekka (03:40):Yeah. No, I mean, cause you're almost there. This is the point where you are just making sure that nothing weird happened in the process of getti

We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, and concerns for us to address in future episodes.

We hope you enjoy We Make Books!

Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap

Instagram: @WMBCast 

Patreon.com/WMBCast

 

Lots of links this episode! 

A.Z.’s website https://www.azlouise.com/

@az_louise https://twitter.com/az_louise

“Chorus of the Captains” by Amanda Gorman (Performed at the NFL Super Bowl) https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/super-bowl-2021-read-the-transcript-of-amanda-gorman-poem-chorus-of-the-captains/

The Hidebehind: https://cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Hidebehind

The Iliad: http://classics.mit.edu/Homer/iliad.1.i.html

Shakespeare: http://shakespeare.mit.edu/

Poem “She’s Not A Phoenix” by A.Z. Louise (Strange Horizons): http://strangehorizons.com/poetry/shes-not-a-phoenix/

AASHTO Manual: https://www.scribd.com/document/118295981/AASHTO

Annihilation by Jeff Vandermeer: https://www.jeffvandermeer.com/book/annihilation/

Twisted Moon: http://www.twistedmoonmag.com/5/louise.html

Submission Grinder: https://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com/

 

Episode Transcript (by Rekka, blame her for all errors)

Kaelyn (00:00:00):

Welcome back to another episode of We Make Books, a show about writing publishing and everything in between. I'm Kaelyn Considine. I'm the acquisitions editor for Parvus Press.

Rekka (00:00:07):

I'm Rekka. I write science fiction and fantasy as R J Theodore. And I might start writing some poetry as R J Theodore.

Kaelyn (00:00:15):

Yeah, really? Gonna, you're going to take that dive, that plunge?

Rekka (00:00:19):

Well, look, I've written a lot of poetry in my life. I've just spared everybody.

Kaelyn (00:00:24):

I didn't know that about you actually. I feel, um, not betrayed. Um, what's the word I'm looking for here? Uh, surprised.

Rekka (00:00:33):

Surprised. But not disappointed. I hope.

Kaelyn (00:00:35):

No, no, of course not. I've never disappointed at any of your writing. Uh, so yeah, we, um, We Make Books took a little bit of a turn—but it turns out not too much, if you listen to the episode—um, into the realm of poetry, because you know, it turns out people do actually publish poems and stuff.

Rekka (00:00:52):

Yeah, quite a few of the markets that publish the short stories that we sub out (and sometimes trunk) are also seeking poetry and some exclusively, and some anthologies are all about poetry, and some single author anthologies end up being all about poetry. So if you've got a poetic bone in your finger somewhere, maybe this is the episode you need to hear to, um, try and draw some of that out.

Kaelyn (00:01:16):

Rekka was able to interview poet A.Z. Louise, who, um, was kind enough to take the time to sit down and, you know, talk about like some things I really didn't know about poetry and the publishing industry.

Rekka (00:01:28):

Yeah, it was great to have A.Z.. A.Z. Louise is a lover of birds, a killer of houseplants and a former civil engineer. Their love of speculative fiction has been lifelong, but they became a speculative poet by accident. Their work has appeared in Strange Horizons, Fiyah, and The Future Fire.

Kaelyn (00:01:45):

I think poetry is a little intimidating. I don't know why a poem is so much more intimidating than a full length, novel to a lot of people, but it certainly is for me.

Rekka (00:01:55):

I think there's a certain expectation of highbrow, um, of elevated intellect that is required for good poem or to understand a good poem. There, there seems to be some sort of requirement to get in the door to poetry.

Kaelyn (00:02:16):

Yeah. I think everybody's got this notion in their head that like to understand poetry, you need to have gone to school for it, which I don't know why nobody thinks that about writing.

Rekka (00:02:26):

Well, I hope it's not true about writing cause I didn't go to school for

Audio Note: Rekka's puppy, Evie, joins us for this episode and there is the sound of a squeak toy and a jangling collar during the episode. If you or a pet in your vicinity would be unsettled by this, it might be best to listen at low volume this time, or just stick to reading the transcript.

We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, and concerns for us to address in future episodes.

We hope you enjoy We Make Books!

Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap

Instagram: @WMBCast 

Patreon.com/WMBCast

Links for this episode:

WMBCast Episode 26: Satisfying Endings

American Girl Books (Molly, Kirsten, Felicity, and Samantha's seem to be out of print but Addy's are still available)

The Chronicles Of Ghadid series by K.A. Doore

Gods Of Jade And Shadow by Silvia Moreno-Garcia

Until The End Of The World series by Sarah Lyons Fleming

Transcript for Episode 54:

(All inaccuracies are Rekka's fault)

 

Rekka (00:01):Welcome back to we make books, a podcast about writing publishing and everything in between. I'm Rekka. I write science fiction and fantasy as RJ Theodore.

Kaelyn (00:09):I'm Kaelyn Considine. I am the acquisitions editor for Parvus Press. And, um, let's, let's start with the elephant in the— well, the dog in the room, as it were, we have a special—

Rekka (00:18):She sounds like an elephant sometimes, let me tell you. Not when she barks, but when she's stomping around,

Kaelyn (00:22):We have a special guest on today's episode. Rekka's new —

Rekka (00:26):And we should have had a video pod, video cast, but, um, cause her most endearing quality is her face, but you're going to hear the less endearing qualities a couple times through the episode.

Kaelyn (00:36):Yeah, Rekka's uh, still fairly newish puppy, Evie, is joining us today.

Rekka (00:40):She's seven months old. We've had her for three months. She was so well-behaved right up until we started recording. At the moment. She is biting my leg and trying to chew through my headphone cord. So, um...

Kaelyn (00:53):She just has a lot of opinions on things because here's the thing.

Rekka (00:56):She has a multi-faceted personality. This facet is very sharp!

Kaelyn (01:01):In her short life, Evie's actually had a pretty happy ending.

Rekka (01:05):Well, hopefully not an ending, but currently at this, if we were to close the last chapter of the book right here, and of course it would be a series so she can continue on. Um, yes. Well, she's not very happy, right this moment. I mean, she wouldn't be biting me if she were.

Kaelyn (01:20):Well, it's a good rags to riches story, you know?

Rekka (01:22):She is trying to make my jeans into rags at this moment.

Kaelyn (01:26):She went from a porch somewhere, tied up on a porch, somewhere to a house with lots of toys, people to pay attention to her, and a nice fireplace.

Rekka (01:34):Very expensive dog food.

Kaelyn (01:36):So, um, yeah, today we're talking about happy endings. Do you need one? What is a happy ending? What does that even mean? What is, what makes it a happy ending?

Rekka (01:46):This was a listener question. So, um, you know, thank you to people who chimed in when, uh, Kaelyn and I weren't sure what we were going to talk about today. We, uh, reached out and got a bunch of suggestions and I think we're covered for like the next half year or so. So today, Kaelyn was in the mood for a happy story and wanted to talk about how, or if she was in the mood to, um, completely disparage happy endings. It's hard to tell.

Kaelyn (02:10):It's been a week, everyone.

Rekka (02:10):She is a huge fan of epic fantasy, which means, you know, that gritty-kill-your-main-character-halfway-through-surprise-this-ten-book-series-is-about-someone-else.

Kaelyn (02:19):I read a novella once, that was like a horror novella, in which the two main characters ended up, sucked

We Make Books is hosted by Rekka Jay and Kaelyn Considine; Rekka is a published author and Kaelyn is an editor and together they are going to take you through what goes into getting a book out of your head, on to paper, in to the hands of a publisher, and finally on to book store shelves.

We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Send us your questions, comments, and concerns!

We hope you enjoy We Make Books!

Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap

Instagram: @WMBCast 

Patreon.com/WMBCast

 

Transcript:

Kaelyn (00:00):Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of We Make Books, a show about writing publishing and everything in between. I'm Kaelyn Considine. I am the acquisitions editor for Parvus Press.

Rekka (00:09):And I'm Rekka. I write science fiction and fantasy as R J Theodore.

Kaelyn (00:13):Would you call that your title?

Rekka (00:14):No. It's a name.

Kaelyn (00:15):Oh, okay.

Rekka (00:19):But you can name a book by giving it a title.

Kaelyn (00:21):Mine's a title.

Rekka (00:22):Well, yes. You, you provided a title. I did not say, "I am Rekka, author."

Kaelyn (00:27):Yes. That would be your title. So, um, well today we're talking about titles, uh, books. They need them.

Rekka (00:33):Better titles than just a job description.

Kaelyn (00:37):Yes, than just that. Um, you know, this is how people are going to find your book. A weird thing is if you don't give a book a name and you just kind of like put it on a shelf, it makes it really hard for people to find, be that shelf physical or digital.

Rekka (00:49):Yeah. You definitely need it. You need something that somebody can find your book by. So how about a title and then how do you pick it? How long should it be?

Kaelyn (00:57):Yeah. Titles seem like one of those things that are very easy and in some cases they are, but when they are not easy, they are very difficult.

Rekka (01:07):And sometimes you can just get like a total mental block about like what you call your book, even though you've spent years, potentially, with this book and you know, every word because you've written it three times over, you know, like sometimes it's just really hard to say, like, "how do I encapsulate the experience of reading this book in a few words, that's somebody who's going to understand who hasn't already read the book?"

Kaelyn (01:30):Exactly. Yeah. So, um, you know, we talk a lot about things that titles should do, how they should serve the book and how they're being used to market your book and make sure it finds its way into the hands of the reader that's most going to enjoy it. As always, we hope you enjoy and we'll see you on the other side of the music.

Kaelyn (02:01):Oh yeah. Well the rogue star just keeps going. You're not orbiting the rogue star.

Rekka (02:05):No, no, no, no. I know, but it pulls you off your orbit and then you're moving. And if you are on a planet without propulsion, you are at the whim of that. I'm talking about generational ships where like there's some agency in which direction you're headed.

Kaelyn (02:19):Well, like I wonder if we hit Jupiter, like we approach Jupiter at the right angle, if we could end up just coming into orbit around Jupiter. Not that that would be especially good. But anyway, so Rekka, what would you call this book?

Rekka (02:38):Um, well, let's see. It sounds like it's science fiction, so it should probably be... Galaxy's Orphan.

Kaelyn (02:47):Oh, that's a good one. Thanks. Could you just come up with that off the top of your head?

Rekka (02:51):Well, based on our conversation, but yeah, I'm pretty good at titles. I have been told that I'm pretty good at titles.

Kaelyn (02:56):You are, you are very good at titles. I have personal experience with that. Today we're talking about titles and books and like how you wrote all of this thing and now you've got to call it something. Yeah. Titles are incredibly important because if n