What's the value?

This one was an interesting clash of styles. I think both Ash and I see the value of trying to understand the world around us. We both really enjoy philosophy and both have a podcast designed to talk about deep, life topics (his is called Frame of Reference). However, Ash is a naturally optimistic person (vs. me who loves to play the cynic). He looks at the world and acknowledges there is still suffering but really we are living in the best of possible times. Most metrics around human progress (mortality rate, people living in poverty, violence, etc.) have improved pretty dramatically.

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It goes beyond just metrics though, Ash just feels lucky to be alive. He recognizes he kind of hit the "genetic lottery" living in North America, not living in poverty, not suffering from disease, etc. That is why I think his value of "quality of life" made sense for him. He sees so much of the positives in the world and appreciates that he has the freedom to enjoy his life in whatever way he chooses. If anything, he thinks the negativity in the world today is because most people don't realize how good we have it. Most of us still function with a scarcity mindset and are worried about lifting others up because it might bring us down. 

Although I don't completely disagree with a lot of this, it doesn't necessarily make me optimistic. I believe we are all inherently selfish to some degree and human history is more relevant to show us how ugly we can be (rather than showing us how far we've come). Even in today's modern world, with many metrics showing progress, there is still so much suffering and hatred. I worry that if we're too optimistic it becomes more of a blindfold than anything else. It allows us to feel good about the world when there are so many people in pain.

Ash and I spent most of the show genuinely trying to understand why we see the world differently. Sometimes it is as if two people are just on different frequencies and might never see things the same way. But I still believe there is a ton of value in trying. I tend to think both of us are right and wrong. Life is too complex to say it is good or bad. Those are human terms we try to apply to something we can never truly understand. Life isn't good or bad, life is just life.

Mary is a transformational leader and an internationally recognized personal branding & online business specialist. Mary helps service industry experts systemize, digitalize and commercialize their knowledge, wisdom and skills into a scalable & profitable online business. Mary has 20+ years of experience building 7 & 8 figure businesses & building high-performance sales teams in the IT sector and 15 years delivering online solutions.

These are some of the phrases from Mary's bio, so you can imagine my surprise (kind of) when we spent the majority of our time talking about wisdom (her most important value), embodiment, spirituality, and intuition. In so many ways from her profile, Mary can seem like every other business coach or transformation guide that you see on Instagram or Youtube. She has the key to make you successful, if you have the cash. Interestingly though, as Mary mentioned during the show, she focuses on business and branding mainly as a way in to get her clients to embrace the more "woo woo" side. She believes if people can embody who they are truly meant to be, that is the quickest path to true success in life.

Obviously we can't stop there though. We need to press on that and see if these words truly hold. Does Mary really think her clients understand the full value she is trying to provide, or are they really just interested in the tips to build more followers/leads? If she believes so much in the deep spiritual side of embodiment, why is she charging for it, why not just give it away to help improve the world? And frankly, is it even possible to embrace the "woo woo" side and run a successful business; are they even compatible?

I really appreciated Mary's willingness to explore these questions and for her thoughtful answer to how she is trying to live her life, build her business, and support others. I'm not sure wisdom can ever be sold or purchased, but I think Mary is doing her best to try to help her clients along the path to find it.

My guest, J.V. (Joe), is best known for his work as the epic/dark fantasy author of The Warminster Series (https://www.jvhilliard.com/), but he has also worked in Washington D.C. as a lobbyist. I thought this was a super interesting background because to write novels and create characters/entire worlds from scratch, you have to really observe and understand the nuances of human nature. When you pair that with his background and the work he's done as a lobbyist I figured he would have some really interesting perspectives and views.

Joe started with "work-ethic" as his most important value. He spent a lot of his childhood studying his dad and uncle who helped him gain an appreciation for the importance of a strong work-ethic. As you'll hear in the conversation, this value also led to Joe feeling that some from the younger generations today lack work-ethic, are too entitled, and are caught up on the "participation trophy" mentality. The result is we have stopped trying to push ourselves and to sacrifice to make the world better for future generations.

We had a really interesting discussion around all of this, where we challenged ourselves to consider the other perspective. We explored Joe's childhood and if it would've been better if his dad was around more and not working so much. We also tried to understand if there is a good reason younger generations seem to focus more on the individual and deprioritize work-ethic and sacrifice above all else. 

In all of this, there is an obvious persona Joe could be labeled as-- e.g., middle age white guy, DC lobbyist, believes in traditional values, looks down on "participation trophies,", etc. He can start to look like the epitome of the problem many people have with "conservatives" today. It was interesting to explore this through the context of character development in a novel. Good characters are complex, they are multi-faceted, and they don't fit cleanly into a box. I think Joe is similar. He certainly has some views that can be provocative, but they are rooted in him valuing the importance of sacrifice and striving to be better. That doesn't mean you have to agree with him, but I do think it means it is more useful to try to understand his perspective rather than dismissing it.

Sue is a parent mentor, child behavioral specialist, household harmony transformer, and author (Secrets to Parenting Without Giving a F^ck). She's worked with parents for 20+ years helping them end tantrums, sidestep power struggles, eliminate back-talk, neutralize sibling fights, and build a lifelong relationship of trust with their kids. For anyone who has kids or has interacted with kids you know those are some heavy claims. We can debate if parenting is the hardest job in the world, but I would argue it is likely the most complex. There are so many challenging aspects of trying to raise a young human, who you are responsible for but can't fully control, when you are still trying to figure out life yourself. 

Sue started in a beautiful place though, to explain why she thinks she's "cracked the code" of parenting. She stated her most important value as "self-awareness" because she believes the only way to do this impossible job effectively is to have an extreme level of awareness about yourself, your kids, and your situation. That awareness allows you to balance the job of instilling your wisdom and experience into your kids, without trying to control them or adding your baggage onto them. We talked specifically about some of the concepts from her book, like "parenting in advance", "partnership parenting", and approaching your kids as "adults in training." 

It was really interesting to hear the insights and the lessons she's learned from being a mom of four, with an active military spouse. What I enjoyed most though, as I always do, was pressure testing Sue's approach and concepts. She was the type of guest who was totally game to debate and explore her ideas. We even hit head on the "elephant in the room", of balancing the humility required to have true self-awareness with the confidence and conviction required to write a book and claim you've figured out the best approach to parenting. Is it possible Sue really has the answers and other parents who see it differently are just getting it wrong? A huge thanks to Sue for being so open to discussing these topics, bringing so many insights to the conversation, and exhibiting, in real time, what self-awareness looks like.

I say often on this show, that life is complex and full of nuance. It is full of these paradoxes, contradictions, and dualities that we need to try to manage. It is messy and hard to get a grasp on. Sometimes we find ourselves scratching our heads trying to make sense of it all. In many ways that encompasses the conversation I had with my guest, Lincoln. Usually within 10-20 minutes I can get a decent grasp of the other person and can start to paint a picture of what they are all about. I mean this as compliment; with Lincoln that was not the case. Much like life, I found myself trying to keep up with fluidity and nuance of his mindset.

That can sound like a negative because our minds so desperately want to put people into a box. We want to quickly understand and categorize people. Interestingly, that is exactly what Lincoln wants to avoid. His approach to life is to never settle and never allow yourself to be limited by a categorization or wrapper. He is constantly learning, constantly pushing himself to try to be bigger, better, and different. That is how Lincoln views life, it is an infinite game that requires constant progression. This means he climbs mountains, scuba dives, sky dives, and seeks out opportunities to "look over the guardrail of life" and see what he can learn. In his professional career (https://www.mindstrengthbalance.com/) it looks like him being a psychotherapist, author, coach, past life regression specialist, hypnotherapist, and I would say philosopher.

There were a ton of interesting insights, tangents, and logical threads we explored in this one. We talked about death, parenting, education, Richard Feynman (one of my personal heroes), creativity, and a lot more. I think it is Lincoln's value (which we unpacked throughout the show) which best summarizes our conversation though. When I asked him what it was all about, why all the learning and pushing to do/see more; he said he wants to "change, embrace chaos, and go out singing." What an approach to life--to want to change and grow above all else, to welcome the chaos life throws at us, and ultimately to leave this world so content and fully of joy that you go out singing when you die.

My guest, Julie, says that after 45 years of living the secretive, out of control life of a binge eater and a food addict, she finally became free from the insanity of yo-yo dieting and food obsession. She believes her most important value, "the power in the pause" is what allowed her to overcome such an enormous challenge. As if that wasn't fascinating enough, Julie claims it actually happened pretty quickly and did not require much willpower at all. 

I get it, there may be some of you out there reading this and saying "oh wow, I've never heard that before, someone who seems to have cracked the code to losing weight--did you figure out the cheat code to win at gambling too? Hard pass." I also get that there may be some people out there thinking, "it took you 45 years to figure out that you need to control yourself and eat in moderation--is that supposed to be impressive?" That is why it is so important to really examine and understand claims like this, to see what value is really there.

What I found interesting about this discussion was that it aligned with other wisdom I've heard over the years. It isn't necessarily novel or new, it's actually a straightforward approach that is very logical to understand, but hard to execute. The work Julie did for herself and now for her clients, is to help them have more deliberate, conscious conversations with themselves about what they really want. She helps them gain clarity on what's causing them to be obsessed with food and then gain clarity on what they need to do to overcome it. 

To the execution part of it, I think what we learned through this discussion is that hard change very rarely happens quickly (in Julie's case it actually took 45 years) and it does require constant work everyday to maintain it. However, if you take the time to really understand yourself and your situation, what seems impossible before can actually start to feel extremely doable. It doesn't matter if it is food, relationship issues, career challenges, or anything else--as Julie explained, embracing the power of the pause to think deeply about your issue will always be beneficial. 

If you are interested in checking out Julie's work you can find more info here- https://www.peacefuleater.com/ (and she's offered a discount using WTV10 for any listeners).

Community, family, connection--all of these are beautiful aspects of the human experience. As my guest Matt articulated with this most important value, there is something so powerful about community. The ability to connect with other humans, find your tribe, form deep bonds, exhibit love and compassion for them--these are all amazing things. But in the spirit of this show, we have to explore and consider the negative sides as well. We all have a sense the world can be a better place but I strongly believe that for us to achieve it, we need to swim in the mud of some of this negativity more. 

I get it, it is much more enjoyable to focus on the positives and be optimistic. Conversations are a lot more cordial and light hearted when we focus on the beautiful aspects of life. But to create true change and to reduce some of the conflict and suffering in the world, I think we need to shine a bright light on the negatives. We need to examine them, understand them, and see what we can do to improve them. 

I couldn't think of many better people to do this with then a U.S. politician, who has seen first hand some of the negative aspects of forming communities/tribes. Matt served as a State Representative in Pennsylvania for three terms and has seen what it looks like when humans identify with a group and become dogmatic about their commitment to it, often at the expense of others. Matt is also a husband, father, author, podcaster, and former non-profit executive, who has spent years trying to find ways to better the various communities he is a part of.

This made for a perfect context to explore his value of community. Matt had a lot of great insights about how community can be valuable and enrich people's lives. But he was also very transparent about the challenges that come with it. We discussed the divisiveness in politics today around issues like gun control and abortion (or even M&M characters), the differences between building a legacy and pandering to a base, and how elusive compassion can be when you are too focused on your own community. I truly appreciate Matt for being so open throughout the discussion, it's not always easy as a politician, but it is much needed. 

We are all one. We should love every human because we are all connected. Love is everything. Psychedelics are crucial to open our minds to understand the universe and ourselves. 

There was a time not too long ago where I would've heard ideas like this and thought "what the f*ck kind of hippy nonsense are we talking about?" I am sure there are some people reading this who might be thinking that as well. I get it, without context or the full depth of what the words mean, it could sound like some abstract nonsense. 

That is why I strongly encourage you to listen to this conversation (and all of these conversations really--sorry shameless plug) with Jahan. You may not agree with the beliefs or views, you may still think drugs in any form are dangerous, and you may ultimately have a much more straight forward, less abstract view of life. That is OK. But how would you ever really know that if you didn't consider another perspective? How would you know if it is "hippy nonsense" if you didn't actually take the time to understand what is being said? That's why I do this show, to force myself to take the time and consider other perspectives. And I'm glad I did.

Jahan is a Ph.D. who completed his dissertation on psychedelics in the Philosophy, Cosmology, and Consciousness program at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS). He wrote a book, The Psilocybin Connection and he also provides Hakomi somatic-psychotherapy and psychedelic driven counseling sessions to clients (full details here- https://psychedelicevolution.org/). He is extremely well read and brings a deep scientific/data driven approach to understanding these "hippy topics." 

Learning more about psychedelics was super interesting, but as always my favorite part of the conversation was when we questioned and examined some of the concepts. We discussed/debated if psychedelics are necessary to achieve true humility, if loving everyone equally should be our goal, and if the Aztecs' demise was rooted in their use of psychedelics--just to name a few. Big thanks to Jahan for sharing his knowledge and openly exploring a bunch of interesting topics with me.

Why? That is the question I find myself asking more than anything else. It's the question I teach my son is most important-- you should always know "why" you do something or you believe something. It is rooted in the Socrates quote "the unexamined life isn't worth living", because if we don't ask why, I worry we are guessing our way through life. But that's why I do this show, to be challenged to think differently. Nanxi, my guest today, approaches life somewhat differently. She understands the importance of asking why, but she more often asks "why not?"

It seems like such a subtle difference. In many ways it seems like the same question just asked from a different angle. When you step back and think about it though, "why not" is much more open and optimistic, where "why" can seem much more closed and skeptical. I think that is in line with how Nanxi lives. As you'll hear, she believes "pursuing excellence" is the most important value for her. She takes that "why not" approach to say "why not try to be the great at a whole bunch of different things in life?" Whether it be the companies she founded and led (most recently Blaze Technology, but she's been named Forbes 30 Under 30 and previously served as CEO and co-founder of Enplug and sold it for a 200x return), the Board of Directors she serves on, the TV show she produced and won an Emmy for, the top finish she had in the World Series of Poker, or the concert piano she plays-- she embodies pursuing excellence.

But that "why" vs. "why not" debate led to some really interesting discussions. Part of the value of asking "why" is to try to understand if pursuing excellence is something that you truly value and is authentic or if it's something you inherit from your childhood experiences and social pressures. Asking why also helps to understand if you have a healthy balance between your own enjoyment and personal achievement vs. helping others and giving back. As Nanxi explained though, these questions can be almost impossible to answer with any confidence, so sometimes taking the "why not" approach seems like the better way to go. As with most things in life, it seems like managing the duality between these two approaches is probably best--and I think ultimately it is that balance that makes Nanxi so successful and fulfilled in life. 

Should we be optimistic that we all have the capability to do the, hard but necessary, work of healing from our past trauma? Or should we be pessimistic that the world requires such healing, because pain, suffering, and trauma are so common place? Should we view ourselves as good people because we are willing to do the work to be better each day? Or should we view ourselves as bad people who are just trying to do all we can to make up for the fact that we aren't naturally good?

Those are a some heavy questions, but they are the ones that have consumed my mind since this conversation with Brad-- one of the many benefits of having these thought provoking discussions. Brad (an author who recently wrote a book called The Peaceful Man: Heal Within Yourself the Personal Effects and Historic Patterns of Male-on-Male Violence") stated "healing" as his most important value. He believes that each of us experiences some form of trauma in our lives and if we don't do the work to heal it we end up making decisions from an emotionally unhealthy place. Simply put, humans hurt each other and that creates an unending cycle of unnecessary suffering. Brad takes the optimistic view and believes if we (most notably men who statistically initiate most of the violence) acknowledge this fact and do the work to heal, the world can be a vastly better place.

I very much agree with Brad that if more of us do the work to heal our trauma, and also to account for our natural human imperfections, there would be far less suffering in the world. However, the reason for this show is to take good ideas and dissect them to see if they really can provide tangible value. So Brad and I spent much of the show trying to dig deep on concepts like the inevitability of violence for humans, the double edge sword of humility, and how hard we should be on ourselves when trying to be "better." He had some really insightful views on all of these topics.

Through all of this, I think my main take-away is: suffering is an inevitable part of life, but to Brad's point, let's experience that suffering in an effort to heal ourselves rather than in an effort to hurt others.