What's the value?

In 2018, Jason found out his wife had stage 4 colon cancer. They had two young kids and thought they were doing all the right things in life, so they couldn't understand how this could happen to them. After 9 months of doctor's appointments and treatments Jason found himself at his wife's funeral trying to figure out where to go next. Maybe the key phrase from all of this, that highlights the theme of our discussion, was something one of the nurses said to Jason. She said “Jason, cancer has a way of enhancing your life”.

I find that phrase absolutely fascinating and something I really wanted to dig into. Some people hear something like that and they get angry. "My loved one is dying from a horrific disease and you are telling me my life will be better? F*ck off!" Or some people hear it and they feel hope. "I will never understand why my loved one is dying, but there has to be some light in this darkness. I need to find a way to accept it and enjoy life again." I would never judge anyone for either reaction, but I was really curious to (respectfully) dig into this with someone who has just been through it. I wanted to try to understand how Jason's mind made sense of this situation. And I wanted to push underneath the initial feelings and see what philosophical insights could be gleaned from it.

Jason went through a lot of hard work to try to make his life make sense again. You'll hear him talk about a project him and his kids started called The Hope Kit (https://hopekit.com/) which tries to bring support to other families dealing with cancer. You'll also hear him talk about creating a "healing team" of 15 or so close friends and family that Jason tapped into to help bring him out of his despair. I think there is so much value in hearing firsthand how someone dealt with crippling grief. I hope there is even more value in hearing an honest, probing conversation about it. Does moving on mean you are turning your back on your wife? Does creating a healing team make you weak or self centered? I appreciate Jason a ton for being on, talking through his story, and exploring these questions to try to help others grieve.

I knew I was going to like talking to my guest, Barbara, because she is super passionate about history (as am I). But I was not sure what direction the conversation would go and what aspects of history we would discuss. Given her background (she is an author, educator, historian, and parent) we ended up spending a good bit of time talking about education, while using history as the framing. For Barbara the reason she values history so much is because it is the history of "us", there is so much to learn about ourselves by learning about other humans throughout time. That is why she now dedicates so much of her life to using history to try to inspire, entertain, and educate the youth. 

We used that jumping off point to discuss how important critical thinking is in the process of learning about history. You have to be curious and passionate about learning. To time travel back into history and try to empathize with another human with completely different societal frames of reference, you need to think critically. We talked a lot about the history of "teaching" too and why it seems like we all know our schools don't do a good enough job teaching critical thinking, but we can't do anything about it. We explored some philosophical considerations, like is our population too large to effectively educate and does democracy allow too many voices to have a say in education?

This episode was further proof for me that you can take any topic and if you explore it openly and deeply enough, you will pull out fascinating insights. And I think ultimately that is Barbara's point--she wants all of us to think more critically about ourselves, the world, and our history. If we do, it can almost unlock a "cheat code" to the game of life, where we are able to leverage wisdom from past generations and customize it to work for our individual situations. 

There are some people who are just natural observers in life. We never really know why-- maybe genetics, maybe their environment, maybe a spiritual purpose? But what we do know is that they are able to see our world in a unique way. My guest Austin fits directly in this category for me. He grew up around dogs and probably started to hone his skills by trying to understand their behavior. He eventually became a dog trainer, then eventually began training young athletes, and then eventually began training parents. 

Along each step in this journey he was observing and studying. Constantly taking in more input, reassessing the systems and frameworks he was using, and determining optimal techniques to improve. It's funny because the conversation started off relatively light and direct. Austin stated "movement" as his most important value and we went down a path talking about the very basic, primal benefits of movement. We talked about how it related to a dog's need to move, how our bodies stop allocating resources to parts we don't use, and how big of a factor pain is in peoples' lives. 

He talked about a personal experience with a severe leg injury, which led him to understanding the importance of building a "good" relationship with pain. I really enjoyed this part of the discussion because I find pain fascinating in general, but also for the deep insights Austin provided about the role his ego played and the specific lessons he learned about listening to your body. 

As the conversation progressed in this one, it became more obvious how effortlessly Austin went through this "observe, study, optimize" process in his life. His expertise and passion is around physical activity, training, and therapy; so naturally he covered a ton of aspects of those topics. Getting to hear his deeper observations as we explored these topics was really interesting. We also realized, the somewhat obvious, conclusion that these same lessons could be applied to dealing with the mental aspects of life. That illustrates why we need "observers" in the world, no matter their field, they identify patterns about life that we can all learn from.

“Real joy happens in a broken world.” What a phrase. It taps into the more Buddhist view of joy, which is much less binary than how I typically think of it. It is in that vein that my guest, Ciahnan (PhD and author), stated “joy” as his most important value. He explained this version of joy as something that allows you to see through the darkness, fear, and tension to truly understand yourself and genuinely connect with others.

This conversation started as it often does for me, trying to probe and in some ways challenge this idea of joy. It is not that I don’t see value in joy, but there is such much suffering in the world, that it makes it hard to buy into. I spent a good bit of the discussion trying to press Ciahnan to admit it might even be offensive to value joy when so many people are suffering.

I’ve had a lot of fantastic guests on this show, but I am still blown away by how he responded to this line of questioning. The way he expressed optimism and hope for humanity, while at the same time acknowledging some of the ugliness that does exist, was something special. In his earlier life Ciahnan was a minister, who worked in a hospital trauma unit. It was this firsthand experience with some of the worst human suffering you can imagine that made his perspective even more moving.

Part of my ego still likes to pretend I am a tough, stoic figure, but the truth is this conversation brought me to tears, multiple times. Going on the roller coaster we did to explore the good and the bad that exists in humanity really has an impact. And I think that is Ciahnan’s point, that we shouldn’t shy away from the darkness—it is very real—but if we truly hope to alleviate it in any way, we also need to fully embrace the joy that goes along with it.

My guest today, Adelia (links to her work and podcast here- https://www.itsdeelz.com/), chose "authenticity" as her most important value. Some people might be thinking, "ehh I'll skip this one because I've seen authenticity come up a lot already." Firstly, I think that might be a bad idea because everyone's perspective is unique and there is something to learn from them. But even more so in this case, as few people go as far as Adelia to live into their authentic selves. She decided in her early 20's that the only reason she wasn't willing to get into pornography and start an OnlyFans account was because she was worried what other people might think. She had always been fascinated by the human body and found sexuality to be kind of artistic, so she decided to start embracing what made her happy.

I do my best on this show to be super open minded while at the same time super curious. In this episode this was a hard line to walk. I wanted to dig into Adelia's thought process and decisions, while at the same time being respectful of her path in life. It is really easy for people to get uncomfortable or judgmental about porn and I certainly didn't want to go that route. As we talked about on the show, I think being your authentic self and embracing what brings you joy in life (assuming it doesn't hurt anyone) is what everyone should do.

At the same time though, I wanted to explore some of the societal views of porn. Getting into that more sensitive part of it is where a lot of learning can happen. I wanted to understand how Adelia viewed the reaction she got from her parents, how she thought about the role of "God" and her Christian upbringing played into her life, what impact drugs may have had on her choices, and plenty of other topics. I really appreciated Adelia's openness to share and empathize with other perspectives, even if she didn't agree with them. 

I understand there are some people who will never be OK with porn and think there is no rational explanation as to why someone would do it. My hope though, is that this podcast gives listeners a safe platform to learn about life styles or perspectives they could never imagine. Because I do think part of being a good human is doing our best to understand others regardless of if we agree with them or not. 

Truth and certainty. These two words come up time and time again in my conversations. It's not that I intentionally find ways to bring them into the discussion, it is more a testament to how fundamental they are to forming any belief or value system. We need some objective grounding that we can rely on to develop an approach for life. But therein lies the problem. What is this truth we speak of? How can truth exist without certainty? How can certainty exist given our limited perspective and capacity as humans?

It is always fun to find a guest who enjoys these types of questions as much as I do; and Douglas was exactly that type of guest. He is a professor of philosophy, an author (“What Left and Right Mean: Clarifying the Political Spectrum"), a podcast host, and someone dedicated to using philosophy to help alleviate injustices in the world. Douglas started with authenticity as his most important value and that launched us right into the "truth/certainty" discussion. His perspective is that our goal should be to gain honesty and clarity on ourselves and those around us. But how do we ever have confidence that we understand the true, authentic nature of a person to actually make use of his value?

Throughout the discussion Douglas shared a ton of interesting insights and perspectives from historic philosophers. There was one idea he brought forth though, which truly fascinated me. He said that "the subjective thoughts and interactions we have everyday, ultimately create an objective reality that we then live in." Take a moment to process that. This illusive concept I've been chasing for years, objectivity, is actually right in front of us--hiding in a place we'd never think to look for it. It is our subjective minds that create the objective reality we need to live within. I could never do this concept justice in a brief write up, but we explored all of the implications of this; how it impacts our daily lives, what role nature plays in our reality, and we even dabbled into some of Nietzsche's work on the "will to power." A huge thanks to Douglas for having an insatiable curiosity for life and for spending some time with me.

I'm not sure what the take-away of this is, but these are hard conversations. Maybe hard isn't the right word, maybe it is scary. I know fear is the root of a lot of our problems, but I also know sometimes fear is functional. When it comes to a conversation like this, with my guest Lori, I am not sure if the fear is functional or not. Lori is director of Include LGBTQ Empowered Life Coaching and Consulting, and an expert and advocate for the LGBTQ & Polyamorous/Kink community.  Lori is a non-binary sexually fluid human who bore witness to the impact of minority stress on queer identity development, and now strives to create affirming and positive environments for others.

The fear I speak of arises from trying to be respectful, conscious, and a decent human. In conversations like these, words become significant. They can be loaded with biases or blindspots that may cause damage. For someone who is not well versed or as educated on the topic it can feel like a minefield at times, just trying to not say the wrong thing. That can be hard and can cause some people to not even engage in the discussion (or worse). It is in those moments I try to maintain a healthy level of empathy and compassion (Lori's most important value) for what it feels like to be on the other side. Sure it can feel hard to have these conversations, but I have to remember how hard it can be to be gender fluid or queer-- how hard it can be to come out to your family and have some of the people you've loved your whole life treat you as less than a person. 

To do this conversation justice, I hoped to accomplish two things. First I wanted to really listen and understand Lori's story. Because these conversations can be hard, often people don't even get to hear what it is like to be Lori, what they've been through, and how they view life. Secondly, in the spirit of the show, I wanted to try to find a way to respectfully dig into some of the fear that surrounds these discussions. I wanted to genuinely/humbly explore why some people cannot accept Lori for who they are, what role science plays in sexuality and gender, and what all of this can teach us about human nature. The conversation was hard at times and I am sure I did not always say the right thing, but I really appreciated Lori engaging in the open dialogue with me. Their perspective and insights around the role compassion plays in all of this is much needed.

When Tamara and I first connected and I heard about her podcast "The Recovering Liberal", I thought this should make for a juicy conversation. There is a part of me that loves talking to people with really strong views, to see if we can find some common ground even though we see the world so differently. I also enjoy the "intellectual sparring" part of it, that usually comes with those types of emotionally charged conversations. What I got in this discussion with Tamara was so much better than that though. Rather than an irrational, extremist who thought their view of the world was exactly right, I found myself talking to one of the more rational, humble, and open minded people I've had the pleasure of speaking with on this journey. 

I know that doesn't always make for all the exciting sound bites and social media buzz, but it does make for a much deeper, more insightful, learning experience. Even more so because Tamara has such a self awareness about her own personal journey, which included struggles with addiction, shifting away from an extreme liberal view point, and ultimately identifying the pursuit of truth as her most important value. The words she uses are " the perspective I bring is quite simply how an ordinary person begins to explore beyond headlines and really understand the heart of these issues, so that they can make more informed decisions for their own lives and choices." I would argue there is actually something quite extraordinary about that approach to life.

We covered a lot of ground in this discussion and explored what pursuing the truth looks like for Tamara. We talked about the subjective nature of truth, how having a moral high ground can be dangerous, the difference between liberals and conservatives, and explored some recent political stories (e.g., attack of Nancy Pelosi's husband, January 6th, Tulsi Gabbard etc.). The thing that was consistent throughout the discussion (despite my probing and pressing) was Tamara's consistent approach to be as objective and humble as she could be. Although it wasn't the conversation I expected, I thoroughly enjoyed it and learned a lot.

I often have a debate (sometimes with myself, sometimes with other people) if habits are a good thing for us or not. The conventional wisdom is that they are, that is why we see so many books and such covering the topic. The idea being that there are strategies, approaches, tips, and/or tricks we can use to build habits so that we can do the things we wish we would want to do. That is where it gets funny for me. Why do we need strategies or tricks to do the things we supposedly want to do? Doesn't that have to mean something? Don't get me wrong, I do believe many of the strategies and all that do work, I practice some of them myself, but what are they working towards? As you ask these types of questions, you start to get into some the philosophical areas I love to think about. 

That is why I enjoyed this conversation so much with my guest, Jason. He is a leadership coach and a podcast host (Happily Ever Habits) who chose "generosity" as his most important value. We used that as the launching point to get into the broader discussion around habits and what we really want out of life. Jason believes life is kind of designed for generosity to allow us to reach our happiest, most joyful states of being. If we can impact the lives of even a few of the closest people around us, that would see to him to be the best we can hope for out of life. He gave a bunch of examples from his personal experience as well, which helped to make the concepts more tangible.

As we did that we started to ask if helping improve the lives of others was really the epitome of our purpose? We tried to understand what it was about relationships that mattered so much to us. And eventually we got to the topic of habits and why we need to work so hard to get ourselves to be the people we think we should be anyway? It was a really interesting conversation and Jason brought a ton of insights to consider about some important aspects of human nature. 

I honestly don't know if anyone will ever value and enjoy these types of conversations as much as I do. Maybe all the questioning, probing, and philosophical thinking is not useful and I am part of a very small minority of people who see any merit in it. But for me, this was a truly beautiful conversation that embodies exactly why I do this show. My guest, Deborah, and I spent 25-30 minutes during the second half of the show trying to figure out how to tell if we want out of life (what makes us feel good/happy) is actually something we should feel good about. If that makes your head hurt, I get it, but I really think you should walk with us on this. 

Think about it. Think about something that makes you feel good; why does it make you feel good? Is it because at your core essence of who you are, you value that thing? Or is it because you had some set of lived experiences that conditioned you in a way that made it feel good? Could you ever tell which of those it is? Does it matter? If it doesn't matter, then how do we ever know who we really are and what we really value?

Let me step back for a moment, to give some context. Deborah is an author (The Best Of No Small Thing — Mindful Meditations and Practice Gratitude: Transform Your Life —Making the Uplifting Experience of Gratitude Intentional), speaker, and runs online groups around purpose and gratitude. Deborah's most important value was "mindfulness" and by that she means a very literal mindfulness that focuses on being aware and conscious of how things make you feel throughout your life. She believes focusing on that allows us to unlock more experiences where we can live our values and feel good. To her, life is about observation, trial, error, and improving. 

It is in this vein that we spent time discussing and debating how you do this most effectively. If we need to constantly be observing and understanding ourselves, how far do we take that? How do we ever know if what we learned is the true "us?" I really can't do the full conversation justice in a write up, but a huge thanks to Deborah for sharing her perspective and having such an insightful and lively discussion with me.