California is closing its fifth state prison. Officials point to lower inmate numbers, but the reasons behind the decline are contested, with effects already visible in local jails and courtrooms.

Riverside Sheriff Chad Bianco says crime hasn’t dropped, it has been shifted out of view through legal changes. San Francisco Public Defender Jared Rudolph argues the system is stepping back from punishment as the default response.

In this episode, two voices inside the system trace how California’s justice policies are changing and what those changes leave out.