The Vermont Conversation with David Goodman

Who benefits from poverty? Matthew Desmond says many of us do.


Listen Later

Why does the U.S. — the richest country in the world — have the most poverty of any advanced democracy? Why are homeless encampments popping up from Seattle to Burlington?


The answer is that, knowingly or unknowingly, many of us benefit from keeping poor people poor.


That is the argument made by Matthew Desmond in his bestselling new book, “Poverty, by America.” Desmond won the Pulitzer Prize for his 2016 book, “Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City," which was named by Book Riot as one of the 50 best nonfiction books of the last century. He is a professor of sociology at Princeton University, a recipient of a MacArthur “genius” fellowship, and was named by Politico in 2016 as one of “fifty people across the country who are most influencing the national political debate.”


He argues that regulations ranging from zoning to environmental laws are being used to block affordable housing, a key factor that is driving the homeless crisis. He says that this problem is often especially acute in communities known for their otherwise progressive politics. Low wages are kept low for the benefit of the more affluent.


“In most residential land in America, it's illegal to build anything except a single detached family home,” Desmond told The Vermont Conversation. “That little regulation buried inside of our zoning codes really means that the only place poor families can live are neighborhoods of concentrated disadvantage, concentrated poverty, and that creates a level of disadvantage of a whole other order. I think that we need to think about our role and our complicity in maintaining those walls around our communities.”

Desmond intends his work to be “a call to action. It means that we need to get our tails down to that zoning board meeting on a Thursday night at eight o'clock and stand up and say, Look, I refuse to be a segregationist. I refuse to deny other kids opportunities my kids receive living here. Let's build [affordable housing].”


Matthew Desmond’s work is grounded in his own experience growing up in poverty. He started studying housing, poverty, and eviction in 2008, when he lived among poor tenants and their landlords in Milwaukee. He now directs the Eviction Lab at Princeton, and is a contributing writer for the New York Times Magazine, where “Poverty, By America” was recently excerpted.

Desmond wants to inspire a new abolitionist movement. “Poverty abolitionists view poverty not as a minor social issue or an inevitability, but as an abomination,” he said. “It shares with other abolitionist movements -- the movement to abolish slavery [and] prisons, for example -- the recognition, the conviction, that if my gain comes at someone else's loss, that's corrupting in a way." 


"A poverty abolitionist divests from exploitation even if it benefits us. We try to shop and invest in solidarity with poor workers," he said. "We want a government that has a balanced and sensible welfare state, a government that does much more to fight poverty than to alleviate the tax burdens of the affluent. And we are for integrated communities and open, inclusive neighborhoods.”


Poverty abolitionism “is a political mission,” said Desmond, “but it's also a personal stance.”


...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

The Vermont Conversation with David GoodmanBy VTDigger

  • 4.3
  • 4.3
  • 4.3
  • 4.3
  • 4.3

4.3

31 ratings


More shows like The Vermont Conversation with David Goodman

View all
On the Media by WNYC Studios

On the Media

9,166 Listeners

Democracy Now! Audio by Democracy Now!

Democracy Now! Audio

5,644 Listeners

On Point | Podcast by WBUR

On Point | Podcast

3,916 Listeners

Radiolab by WNYC Studios

Radiolab

43,840 Listeners

This American Life by This American Life

This American Life

90,850 Listeners

Fresh Air by NPR

Fresh Air

37,872 Listeners

Selected Shorts by Symphony Space

Selected Shorts

2,815 Listeners

The Political Scene | The New Yorker by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

The Political Scene | The New Yorker

3,910 Listeners

The Moth by The Moth

The Moth

27,072 Listeners

Rumble Strip by Erica Heilman / Rumble Strip, Erica Heilman

Rumble Strip

1,159 Listeners

The New Yorker Radio Hour by WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

The New Yorker Radio Hour

6,679 Listeners

Outside/In by NHPR

Outside/In

1,458 Listeners

Brave Little State by Vermont Public

Brave Little State

382 Listeners

Radio Atlantic by The Atlantic

Radio Atlantic

2,275 Listeners

Throughline by NPR

Throughline

16,095 Listeners