While training for a charity boxing match at Madison Square Garden, writer Thomas Page McBee gained insight into how masculinity operates in the ring and in society— McBee became the first known trans man to box in the historic venue. He stopped by the Library to talk about this experience, the subject of his new book Amateur: A True Story About What Makes a Man.

Amanda Hess, a critic-at-large for the New York Times joined McBee to discuss the meaning of toxic masculinity,violence, and what it means to be a "real man."