So far this year, there have been multiple fatal plane crashes and near-misses in North America, leaving 87 dead. President Trump has blamed diversity initiatives, with no evidence. But experts point to a different problem, and have been ringing the alarm bells for years. 

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Guest: Charles Bremner, Foreign Correspondent, The Times. 

Host: Luke Jones.

Producer: Olivia Case.

Further reading: Toronto plane crash blamed on ‘new’ co-pilot amid recruitment crisis

Further listening:  Elon Musk's 'hostile takeover' of Washington

Clips: KSDK News, USA Today, Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, Sky, ABC, Fox, CNN, BBC, The Guardian, The Daily / The New York Times, The White House / Sky, NBC, YouTube / blancolirio.

Photo: Getty Images.

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