The Dutch are known around the world as global leaders in sustainable transportation. But as excellent as they are at designing cities to optimize the mobility experience, what about all the other reasons residents might move through their communities — and what other questions should the Netherlands and America be asking about what public space is really for?

Those questions are at the heart of the new Dutch book “Movement: How to Take Back Our Streets and Transform our Lives,” which is now out in English for the first time. And on this episode of the Brake, we sit down with authors Thalia Verkade and Marco te Brömmelstroet to talk about how much of their country treats bikes as “cars on two wheels,” the good and bad ways that e-bikes are reshaping their landscapes, and how American communities can continue to learn from the Dutch example, while also joining them in the fight for even better streets.