With the release of Wicked: For Good, spectacle is back in theaters and back on the press circuit: Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo are again “holding space” along with each other’s individual fingers and other quirks they picked up along the way. This is, apparently, how movies are promoted now.

Guest: Michael Schulman, staff writer at The New Yorker and the author of Oscar Wars: A History of Hollywood in Gold, Sweat, and Tears.

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Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther.

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