In this discussion, I sit down with data veterans Remco Broekmans and Marco Wobben to explore why so many data projects fail. They argue that the problem isn't the technology, but a fundamental misunderstanding of communication, culture, and long-term strategy.The conversation goes deep into the critical shift from being a "hardcore techie" to focusing on translating business needs into data models. They use the classic "involved party" data modeling pattern as a prime example of how abstract IT jargon creates a massive disconnect with the business.Marco shares a fascinating (and surprising) case study of the Dutch Railroad organization, which has been engaged in an 18-year information modeling "program" - not a project - to manage its immense complexity. This sparks a deep dive into the cultural and work-ethic differences between the US and Europe, contrasting the American short-term, ROI-driven "project" mindset with the European capacity for long-term, foundational "programs".Finally, they tackle the role of AI. Is it a silver bullet or just the latest shiny object? They conclude that AI's best use is as an "intern" or "assistant", a tool to brainstorm, ask questions, and handle initial prototyping, but never as a replacement for the deep, human-centric work of understanding a business.Timestamps:00:00 - Introduction01:09 - Marco Wobben introduces his 25-year journey in information modeling.01:56 - Remco Broekmans reintroduces himself and his focus on the communication aspect of data.03:22 - The progression from hardcore techie to focusing on communication over technology.08:16 - Why is communication in data and IT projects so difficult? 09:49 - The "Involved Party" Problem: A perfect example of where IT communication goes wrong with the business.13:35 - The essence of IT is automating the communication that happens on the business side.18:39 - Discussing a client with 20,000 distinct business terms in their information model.21:55 - The story of the Dutch Railroad's 18-year information modeling program that reduced incident response from 4 hours to 2 seconds.27:25 - Project vs. Program: A key mindset difference between the US and Europe.34:18 - The danger of chasing shiny new tools like AI without getting the fundamentals right first.39:55 - Where does AI fit into the world of data modeling? 43:34 - Why you can't trust AI to be the expert, especially with specialized business jargon.47:18 - The role of risk in trusting AI, using a self-driving car analogy.53:27 - Cultural differences in work pressure and ethics between the US and the Netherlands.59:29 - Why personality and communication skills are more important than a PhD for data modelers.01:03:38 - What is the purpose of an AI-run company with no human benefit? 01:11:21 - Using AI as an instructive tool to improve your own skills, not just to get an answer.01:14:12 - How AI can be used as a "sidekick" to ask dumb questions and help you think.01:18:00 - Where to find Marco and Remco online