WiLD Conversation

By WiLD LeadersBusiness Careers

WiLD Conversation episodes

May 27, 2025The Courage to Fire: Why Trust in Leadership Starts with the CEO a conversation with Sam Willing
In this bold and timely episode of A WiLD Conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna is joined by executive coach and HR leader Sam Willing to talk about one of the most courageous (and controversial) leadership moves: firing the wrong executive—even when they deliver results.
Drawing from nearly three decades in HR and her own journey through grief and self-discovery, Sam shares how emotional regulation, executive accountability, and trust-building are inseparable in healthy organizational cultures. Together, Rob and Sam unpack what it really means to lead with composure under pressure, how to measure trust in your teams, and why the cost of protecting a toxic leader is too high to ignore.
This episode will challenge, inspire, and call leaders—especially CEOs—to take a hard look at whether their values are actually lived out… or just talked about.
🧭 Leadership Takeaways:
Trust is measurable—and it starts with you. Every leader development activity is also a trust-building initiative.
Composure under pressure is not a personality trait, it’s a skill leaders must develop for the sake of their people. Toxic executives damage cultures quietly and deeply. Protecting them out of fear is leadership avoidance, not strategy.
Teams will stay loyal to each other, not the org. When trust is lacking at the top, subcultures form—and leaders miss the truth. CEOs carry the weight of trust.
Courageous decisions like holding executives accountable are where real values show up.
Resources Mentioned:
WiLD Trust Platform
Dr. Rob McKenna’s Composed: The Heart and Science of Leading Under Pressure
The WiLD Trust Index
https://www.wildleaders.org/wild-trust-index
The State of Trust at Work Report
https://info.wildleaders.org/state-of-trust-report-registration-0
46 min
May 20, 2025Stephen M.R. Covey on The Currency of Trust: Why Influence Begins with Being Influenced
In this powerful episode of The WiLD Conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Stephen M. R. Covey, best-selling author of The Speed of Trust, to explore the transformative power of trust in leadership, relationships, and organizational life. In a world marked by declining institutional confidence, Covey argues that trust isn’t just a value—it’s a measurable, learnable competency that multiplies performance and accelerates impact.
Listeners are invited into a conversation that challenges the myth that trust is soft or intangible. Covey reframes trust as a strategic imperative and leadership skill that determines how quickly we can innovate, collaborate, and lead through change. In his words, “Low trust is a tax. High trust is a dividend.”
The conversation also touches on a key paradox of influence: To lead effectively, we must first be willing to be influenced—to genuinely understand others before we expect them to follow us. As leaders model humility and create space for others to feel deeply seen and heard, they become catalysts for real trust.
🔑 Key Takeaways for Leaders:
Trust is a performance multiplier. It impacts everything—from speed and cost to employee engagement, innovation, and well-being.

Trust is learnable. It’s not a fixed trait but a developable competency that can be cultivated with intention and integrity.

To influence, be influenced. Understanding someone deeply—until they feel understood—is the doorway to earning trust and leading with impact.

Trust creates joy and energy. Neuroscience now backs what many leaders intuitively know: high-trust cultures are not only more productive, they’re more human.
In a world of declining trust, being trusted is a differentiator. Leaders and organizations who make trust a goal—not just a tool—gain a significant edge.
54 min
May 06, 2025Between Courtrooms and Campuses: A President Emeritus on Trust, Tenure, and the Space Between Idealism and Reality with Alec Hill
In this deeply personal and profoundly insightful episode of The WiLD Conversation podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Alec Hill—President Emeritus of InterVarsity, legal scholar, mentor, and cancer survivor—to explore the paradoxes of leadership across decades of both adversity and grace. From the dark corners of a broken legal system to the life-giving mission of global relief and development, Alec shares how life, leadership, and trust have evolved through personal failure, painful seasons, and ultimately, profound purpose.
This conversation is as raw as it is hopeful. Alec reflects on the power of convictional leadership in a polarized world, the loneliness of executive roles, and the anchoring influence of trusted relationships. He opens up about how surviving bone marrow cancer reframed everything—from how he listens, to how he mentors, to what really matters in leadership.
Leadership Takeaways:
The Jungle of Trust: Why your 30s and 40s might be the most disorienting time in your leadership—and what to do about it.

From Idealism to Wisdom: Navigating the shift from “I can fix everything” to “I can’t fix everyone”—and the cost of waiting too long.

The Decisive Edge: Why unresolved personnel decisions undermine trust, and how decisive action (with compassion) strengthens culture.

Resetting the Clock: How facing mortality sharpens your intuition, deepens your empathy, and clarifies what legacy you’re building.

Leading with Conviction in a Divided World: Why leaders must hold to their core values without abandoning curiosity or compassion across divides.

If you’re leading in a high-pressure environment, struggling with middle-season restlessness, or walking through the unknown—this conversation will resonate deeply.
Download the State of Trust at Work Report
Connect with WiLD Leaders:
52 min
May 01, 2025This Changes Lives: How Life-Giving Workplaces Create Life-Changing Ripples with Phil Goodman
In this powerful episode of The WiLD Conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Phil Goodman, founder of Talent Realized, to explore how truly life-giving workplaces don’t just transform organizations—they change lives far beyond the office. Phil shares his journey from doubting founder to trusted advisor, and what it means to build cultures where trust, clarity, and meaningful connection take root. Together, they unpack what happens when leaders slow down, lean into conflict with composure, and prioritize relational strategy as much as business outcomes. Whether you're a founder, executive, or HR leader, this conversation offers a compelling call to reimagine the workplace as a launchpad for community transformation.
Leadership Takeaways:
Trust Is the Starting Point: Before you can build trust in your organization, you have to grapple with your own self-trust as a leader. Support systems matter—mentors, coaches, and advisors play a critical role in helping you move forward with courage.
Treat People Strategy Like Business Strategy: Phil models a fractional Chief People Officer approach—aligning people systems directly with business goals. Leadership is not just about outcomes; it's about the people who get you there.
Measure What You Say You Value: If people and culture are truly priorities, they must be monitored like any other key performance indicator. Tools like a trust index can give insight into readiness for change, retention health, and strategic timing.
Build Teams That Know Each Other: High performance requires high connection. People don’t just want to be seen for their productivity—they want to be known and valued as whole people.
Don’t Avoid the Hard Conversations: Avoiding conflict stunts growth and trust. Leaders must be equipped to have truth-filled, grace-driven conversations that deepen connection and resolve tension.
Life-Giving Cultures Ripple Outward: Healthy workplaces don’t just benefit business—they shape families, communities, and the way people show up in every area of life. Leadership is discipleship, and the workplace is a mission field.
42 min
April 22, 2025Whole Leaders or Hollow Promises? Why Method and Measures Matter—The WiLD Way with Dr. McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu
In this power-packed episode of The WiLD Conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu go beyond surface-level leadership trends and dive headfirst into a conversation that challenges how most organizations approach development.
Too often, leaders are handed tools without a method, or methods without measures. Rob boldly claims: “Both matter if we’re serious about building trust and developing whole leaders.” This episode unveils the revolutionary WiLD methodology—a transformative approach that reshapes how we think, interact, and assess in leadership.
With insights on psychological safety, strategic vulnerability, and the necessity of aligning learning and performance, Rob and Sabeth dissect the foundational shift needed in leadership development. They unpack why seeing people whole isn't a nice-to-have—it's a non-negotiable for building organizations where trust can actually grow.
🔑 Leadership Takeaways
Method Without Measures Is a Myth: Leadership development must include both a consistent methodology and meaningful assessments. Without both, growth is accidental at best.

Start at the Top, but Don’t Stop There: Real transformation starts with senior leaders who do the work, not just endorse it.

See the Story Behind the Scores: Data is essential, but context is king. Leaders must learn to interpret profiles as pieces of a complex narrative, not just numbers.

Expect Ownership, Not Just Attendance: Empower people to own their learning journey by giving development back to them—with clear expectations and support.

Create Learning Rhythms: Learning isn't a one-off event. Design a sustainable rhythm that integrates development into the day-to-day.

Lead with Strategic Vulnerability: Your job isn’t to master every assessment. Your job is to crack the door open for real conversation.
Bridge the Business and the Individual: Development isn’t about choosing between the needs of the organization and the growth of the person. It’s about connecting both with intentionality.
Watch this episode here.
39 min
April 15, 2025Not Done Yet: Trust, Transition, and the Science of Work with Dr. Alexis Fink
In this episode of the WiLD Conversation Podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Dr. Alexis Fink—organizational psychologist, people analytics pioneer, and trusted leader—for a conversation that’s as grounded as it is visionary.
Dr. Fink opens up about her recent transition out of a senior role as Meta VP of Analytics and Workforce Strategy—not as a retirement from the work she loves, but a graduation into the next chapter of her calling. Together, we explore how to prepare successors without holding too tightly, how trust and measurement create clarity in chaos, and why the science of work and workers must evolve to meet the fear and fragmentation facing organizations today.
With over 30 years in I/O Psychology and as the outgoing President of SIOP Society for Industrial Organization Psychology, Dr. Fink shares what it takes to build a legacy that outlives your tenure—one rooted in integrity, clarity, and compassion. Whether you’re a founder, an HR leader, or just trying to lead with intention through uncertainty, this conversation is for you.
📌 LEADERSHIP TAKEAWAYS
Succession isn’t optional: Preparing others to lead after you isn’t a side task—it’s your most lasting leadership work.

Measurement drives clarity: Defining what matters forces the hard but necessary conversations about values, strategy, and what’s possible.

Trust is earned in the in-between: Especially in uncertain times, consistent action and honest boundaries build the credibility that trust depends on.

Play it safe, miss the upside: Anxiety and fear limit innovation—leaders must create safety if they want boldness.
You’re not done: Leadership transitions don’t mark the end. They mark a turning point. You may leave a role, but the calling often goes with you.
🔗 Listen to: The Evolution of Leadership Development here: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-xi7h8-15bbbd2

🔗 Learn more: https://www.wildleaders.org/

🔗 Download the State of Trust at Work Report : https://info.wildleaders.org/state-of-trust-report-registration-0
40 min
April 08, 2025The Trust Factor: Why Regulating Yourself May Be the Most Underrated Leadership Skill with Sam Willing
In this WiLD Conversation podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with coach and HR leader Sam Willing for an honest and courageous dialogue on what truly erodes trust in leadership: the inability to regulate ourselves in high-pressure moments.
Sam opens up about her own transformative journey through grief, healing, and nervous system work, and how it reshaped her understanding of emotional maturity in leadership. Together, they explore what Bowen Theory calls “self-differentiation”—the ability to remain emotionally steady while staying connected to others—and how it’s at the heart of trust, consistency, and psychological safety in organizations.
Through vivid examples, including “The Tale of Two CEOs,” Rob and Sam unpack why it’s not just about skills and culture-building strategies. If a leader lacks the capacity to self-regulate when it matters most, even the best intentions can fall flat. The conversation ends with a raw look at loneliness, imperfection, and identity in entrepreneurial leadership.
Leadership Takeaways:
Emotional maturity is a top driver of trust at both the personal and organizational levels.

Nervous system regulation is not a “soft skill”—it’s foundational to leading under pressure.

Leaders must do the internal work to align their values with their behaviors when it matters most.

Inconsistency and inauthenticity are trust-killers, even when paired with compelling vision and values.

Building community and a sense of identity outside of performance is essential for sustainable leadership.

🔗 Connect with Sam Willing:https://www.samwilling.com/
🔗 Learn more: https://www.wildleaders.org/
🔗 Download the report : https://info.wildleaders.org/state-of-trust-report-registration-0
44 min
April 01, 2025 Slow Down, and Secure the Future: The Power of Leading Yourself with Dr. Mark L Vincent
What if the future of your organization depends on something you’re too busy to notice?
We often think about leadership in terms of speed—making things happen, hitting targets, and pushing forward. But real, sustainable leadership isn’t just about performance. It’s about process. And process needs us to stop, reflect, and lead with intention.
In this episode, Dr. Rob McKenna and Dr. Mark L Vincent dive into why slowing down isn’t just a leadership discipline—it’s the key to long-term trust, succession, and continuity. Leaders who fail to cultivate trust don’t just risk losing people; they risk losing everything they’ve built.
✔️ Why trust is the ultimate leadership currency
✔️ How process clarity shapes the future of your business
✔️ Why self-leadership is the foundation of organizational success
If you want to build something that outlasts you, this conversation is where it starts.
Connect with Mark Vincent .
Download the State of Trust at Work Report.
Connect with WiLD Leaders to begin measuring and building trust today.
42 min
March 25, 2025The Invisible Systems Shaping Your Leadership: Trust, Culture, and Organizational Experience with Daniel Edds
In this episode Dr. Rob McKenna and Daniel Edds take a deep dive into the unseen forces shaping our organizations—culture, trust, and the systems that define them. Dan shares from decades of experiences highlighting a hard truth: the systems we create (or fail to create) dictate the experience of every person in an organization.
🔹 Leadership Takeaways:
Culture Exists, Whether You Define It or Not – Every organization has a culture. The question is whether it’s intentional or accidental.

Systems Drive Experience – The way we structure work creates an emergent experience, shaping morale, engagement, and trust.

People Want to Be Proud of Where They Work – Nearly everyone desires to be part of something meaningful. Leaders have the opportunity—and responsibility—to cultivate that sense of pride.

Making No Decision is Still a Decision – Leadership requires making conscious choices, not just letting culture evolve by default.
This episode challenges us to reflect on the systems we build and the invisible forces shaping the way our teams operate.
Listen to: The Evolution of Leadership Development here: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-xi7h8-15bbbd2
For more on Leveraging the Genetics of Leadership: Cracking the Code of Sustainable Team Performance by Dan Edds click here: https://a.co/d/96Pbm0d
1 hr 1 min
March 21, 2025The State of Trust at Work Report—What Every Leader Needs to Know
At WiLD Leaders, we’ve spent years developing whole leaders—leaders who are both courageous and sacrificial—because we knew that leadership development couldn’t be a one-off event. It had to be a system. A rhythm. Something embedded into the very fabric of an organization. What we found along the way? Trust was the game changer. It wasn’t just a byproduct of good leadership; it was the leading indicator of whether teams and organizations would succeed.
The State of Trust at Work Report—What Every Leader Needs to Know:
Trust isn’t a given—it’s a process. Nearly half of all employees (48%) exist in what we call the jungle of trust—where trust in their teams, leaders, and organizations is low. And even in high-trust organizations, 41% of people still struggle with trust daily. The assumption that trust is “just there” if leadership is strong enough? It’s false. Trust is always being built or eroded.

Conflict is not the problem. How we handle it is. One of the lowest-rated areas in teams across the board was navigating high-conflict moments. Yet, that same ability to compose ourselves under pressure is one of the top drivers of trust. In other words, teams that embrace conflict—handle it with honesty and courage—build trust faster and stronger than those that avoid it.

Trust isn’t binary. It’s dynamic. Our data shows that 73% of employees are struggling with trust at either the team or organizational level—or both. But that doesn’t mean trust is broken forever. Trust isn’t something we either have or don’t have; it’s something we question, rebuild, and strengthen over time.

Performance and truth-telling matter. High-trust teams don’t just “get along” with each other. They tell the truth. They own their wins and their failures. Vulnerability isn’t about weakness—it’s about the courage to be real. If you’re leading a team, ask yourself: Are we creating an environment where truth is spoken, mistakes are owned, and performance is a shared responsibility?

Emotional maturity is the difference-maker. Leaders in the C-suite all have experience, but the ones who truly transform organizations have something more—the ability to be both clear and compassionate, strong and humble. Trust is built when leaders develop the self-awareness to understand their competence, motivations, and impact on others.

What This Means for Leaders Like You:
See leadership development as trust-building. It’s not about isolated training events. Developing people is a long-term strategy for building trust across an organization.
Invest in a whole and intentional leadership development system. Stop viewing leadership growth as a one-off solution. Embed it into the fabric of how your team operates.
Start with yourself. If you’re a senior leader, your self-awareness, clarity, and emotional maturity will set the tone for your organization’s culture of trust.
Create a learning culture. Organizations that normalize growth, learning, and truth-telling—not perfection—are the ones where trust thrives.
Imagine an organization where every person could say, I trust you—not because you’re perfect, but because you’re working it out. That kind of trust begins within us, grows in the patterns between us, and is sustained by the conditions we create around us.
Let’s do this. And let’s do this together.
Download the State of Trust at Work report here.
Learn more about the WiLD Trust Index.
Schedule a time to meet with a WiLD Team member today.
22 min