WiLD Conversation

By WiLD LeadersBusiness Careers

WiLD Conversation episodes

October 28, 2025Ana Dutra, Former CEO of Korn Ferry on Purpose, Agility, & Why Your CEO Needs Homework
In this compelling WiLD Conversation, global executive, former CEO of Korn Ferry, board director, and growth strategist Ana Dutra joins Rob McKenna to dive deep into the essential, yet paradoxical, foundations of effective leadership: vulnerability, trust, and purpose. Drawing on three decades of experience transforming organizations and leading Korn Ferry's $500M+ consulting business, Ana shares her hard-won wisdom on aligning personal values with professional impact. This conversation offers a powerful perspective on how authentic self-awareness anchors leaders and builds high-performing, high-trust cultures.
Leadership Takeaways:
Vulnerability is Your Anchor in the Storm: The foundational risk in leadership is the "openness to being hurt," yet this vulnerability is necessary for personal and professional growth. When purpose is excavated and shared, it acts as an anchor, creating stability and trustworthiness in the face of uncertainty.
Diagnose the Three Flavors of Trust: Do not accept "I don't trust them" at face value. Dig deeper, as trust issues often fall into three distinct buckets: Competence (can they do the job?), Character (are they honest?), or Loyalty (are they committed to me/us?). Micromanagement is often a loud symptom of one of these underlying trust deficits.
Beware the "High Potential" Trap: While agility is crucial, leaders must move past the vilification of "high professionals" (deep experts). A team made only of high-agility people (High Potentials) can breed boredom and instability. True success requires valuing both the "Hypo" (who excels everywhere) and the "Deep Expert" (who anchors core functions).
Board Service is About Mindset, Not Status: Serving on a board requires a mindset focused on partnership, not auditing. Directors must prioritize being the "best partner" for the management team and come to the table to "give back" and "pay it forward," rather than viewing the role as a career capstone or personal status symbol.
1 hr 7 min
October 14, 2025Vanlife and Leadership - Storyteller Overland CEO Jeffrey Hunter on Quantifying the Vibe: Your Circle of Trust, Purpose, and Adventure
This special episode of the WiLD Conversation Podcast features Jeffrey Hunter, the visionary CEO, Founder, and Chairperson of Storyteller Overland. Dr. Rob McKenna is a proud owner of a Storyteller Stealth, giving listeners an intimate look at his personal "mode" and setting the stage for a deeply personal and insightful discussion. Jeffrey shares the origin story of Storyteller Overland, born from a desire to meet unmet needs in the van life community with high-quality, scalable production, allowing adventurers to "focus on the life aspects of van life" with confidence and a "circle of trust."
Key Leadership Takeaways:
Inspiring a "Live Free" Movement: At its core, Storyteller Overland is on a mission against a "broken timeline"—the tendency to defer dreams and adventures. Jeffrey’s leadership aims to empower people to "take the next step" and embrace a new version of themselves, confident in the gear and supported by a community that helps them explore farther and "not keep breaking their timeline." This mission-driven approach defines not only their product but their entire organizational purpose.
Trust as the Governing Physics of Business: Jeffrey emphasizes that trust is not just a soft skill but the "governing physics" of enduring success, both within the organization and with its community. He advocates for measuring trust to create pathways for change and intentionally fostering authenticity, integrity, and commitment to shared values among a diverse team.
Quantifying the Vibe: As Storyteller Overland scaled rapidly, Jeffrey and his team realized the need to "quantify the vibe." This means identifying measurable metrics for subjective feelings like community, confidence, and happiness to ensure that rapid growth doesn't sacrifice the core culture and values. Leaders must continually ensure the "vibe" is structurally, endemically, and consistently true.
Product as a Vehicle for Purpose: The "mode" is intentionally designed not as conspicuous consumption, but as a "vehicle" for accessing and connecting with passions, people, and places. Jeffrey's personal journey of seeking permission to live a more adventurous life translated into products that help others "unlock the person they're wanting to go and do and be and become," making the product an extension of a greater mission.
Continuous Improvement in All Aspects: From product design to personal leadership, Jeffrey champions continuous improvement. This includes not only refining vehicles but also continually working on personal growth and leadership capacity, recognizing that a relationship, whether with a team or a customer, is "not one and done."
This conversation offers invaluable lessons for leaders striving to build a thriving business rooted in trust, purpose, and a truly wild spirit of adventure.
Watch on YouTube : https://youtu.be/Bohg3Lo75bA
For more on the WiLD Trust Index visit : https://www.wildleaders.org/wild-trust-index
For more on Storyteller Overland visit : https://www.storytelleroverland.com/
51 min
September 30, 2025From Building Systems to Cultivating People: A Path to Trust and Growth with Josh Wylie
From Building Systems to Cultivating People: A Path to Trust and Growth
In this episode of the WiLD Conversation Podcast, host Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Josh Wylie, President of Villara Building Systems, to reveal a leadership metaphor that reshapes how we think about influence: the builder and the gardener.
Great leaders must be both. Builders focus on visible structures—systems, strategies, and profits. Gardeners nurture what is unseen—the trust, relationships, and culture that make growth sustainable. Wylie shares how Villara Building Systems, a national leader in its industry, has built its mission around “building people, building trust, and building dreams.”
From leveraging the WiLD Trust Index to creating an in-house coaching program, Wylie demonstrates how leaders can systematize trust and invest in people holistically. This conversation is a blueprint for leading organizations with integrity, intentionality, and a relentless commitment to human flourishing.
Leadership Takeaways
Be Both a Builder and a Gardener
Success requires more than structures and systems. Leaders must also cultivate the “invisible” work of trust, culture, and relationships.

Systematize Trust
Trust isn’t a buzzword—it’s a discipline. Measure it, track it, and reinforce it with accountability, clear expectations, and consistent feedback.

Invest in the Whole Person
Villara’s in-house coaching program is proof that when employees grow personally and professionally, loyalty, ownership, and performance follow.

Lead with Vulnerability
In moments of pressure, honesty—even about uncertainty—builds trust and calms fear. Vulnerability creates credibility.

Empower People to Own Their Plans
Don’t just give answers. Ask better questions. When team members design their own development and commitments, their motivation and accountability multiply.
50 min
September 09, 2025Patrick Lencioni on Whole Leadership: Humility, Genius, and Trust
Patrick Lencioni, one of the most influential voices in organizational health together with Dr. Rob McKenna, dive deep to explore the heart of effective leadership—redefining success, reframing identity, and uncovering the surprising role of brokenness in shaping whole leaders.
This episode of The WiLD Conversation Podcast begins lightheartedly with pet peeves, but quickly moves into transformative insights on humility, trust, and the sacrificial nature of leadership.
Key Takeaways for Leaders:
Reframe Success from Performance to Wholeness
Success isn’t about endless striving or achievement. Lencioni challenges the idea that high performance equals health, showing instead that true leadership comes from peace and wholeness, not fear or insecurity.

Embrace Vulnerability as the Foundation of Trust
Vulnerability isn’t trendy, it’s courageous. Trust is forged when leaders risk openness, admit mistakes, and allow others to see their imperfections. This creates authentic connection and psychological safety.

Know Your Working Genius and Acknowledge Weaknesses
Leaders don’t need to excel at everything. Lencioni’s Working Genius model helps identify where joy and energy come from while encouraging teams to complement each other’s strengths. Admitting what you’re not good at isn’t weakness—it’s humility and wisdom.

Leadership is a Sacrificial Act
Leadership isn’t about recognition or power. It’s about service—choosing difficulty and even suffering on behalf of others. Great leaders embrace this sacrificial posture for the sake of those they lead.

For more on The Table Group visit: https://www.tablegroup.com/
For more on The Working Genius visit: https://www.workinggenius.com/
For more on the WiLD Trust Index visit: https://www.wildleaders.org/wild-trust-index
For more on WiLD Leaders Inc. visit: https://www.wildleaders.org/
1 hr 17 min
August 05, 2025 Dr. Amy Edmondson on Leading Without Fear: The Truth About Trust, Failure, and Psychological Safety
In this unmissable episode of The WiLD Conversation podcast, hosts Dr. Rob McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu are joined by the legendary Dr. Amy Edmondson, Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at the Harvard Business School and the pioneering mind behind the globally transformative concept of psychological safety.
With candor and clarity, Dr. Edmondson challenges long-held beliefs about leadership, trust, and failure. She reframes trust not as something earned over time, but as a deliberate choice—a bold act that inspires others to rise to the occasion. And she cuts through misconceptions about psychological safety, revealing it not as comfort or kindness, but as the courage to foster learning, candor, and intelligent risk-taking.
This conversation is a masterclass for leaders who want to build environments where people are safe to speak up, take smart risks, and grow together.
Leadership Takeaways
→ Trust Is a Choice, Not a Prize:
Amy offers a compelling reframe: trust isn’t a passive result of consistency, it's an active decision to believe in people before they’ve proven themselves. That kind of leadership invites others to show up more fully.
→ Psychological Safety ≠ Comfort:
Psychological safety isn’t about being “nice” or avoiding discomfort, it's about creating the conditions for learning, candor, and accountability, even when the stakes are high.
→ Vulnerability Is Strength:
Leaders who admit mistakes and ask questions set the tone for growth. Vulnerability isn’t weakness; it’s a strategic signal of trustworthiness and courage.
→ Discernment Over Permission:
Failure isn’t always bad. Amy unpacks the difference between basic, complex, and intelligent failures, encouraging leaders to cultivate a culture that learns from risk without lowering standards.
51 min
July 22, 2025 Cultivating Courage, Trust, and the "Human Algorithm" of High Performance with Jamie Crosbie
What really drives high performance? In this episode, global speaker and leadership strategist Jamie Crosbie joins Dr. Rob McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu on the WiLD Conversation Podcast to challenge the metrics-only mindset and champion the human algorithm—where trust, courage, and clarity fuel sustainable success.
Jamie reminds us: “If outcomes are king, then trust is the crown.” Together, they unpack how courageous leadership, emotional intelligence, and reframing failure can transform feedback into fuel—and cultivate cultures where people thrive, not just perform.
If you’re leading in high-pressure spaces, this one’s for you.
Leadership Takeaways:
🔹 Lead with Metrics and Meaning
Performance soars when goals are clear and people feel valued. Don’t skip the "why."
🔹 Courage Builds Trust
Vulnerability isn’t weakness—it’s leadership. Own your limits, invite honesty, and watch trust grow.
🔹 Failure Fuels Growth
Ditch the fear. Normalize failure as feedback. Try asking: “What did you fail at today?”
🔹 Self-Awareness > Strategy Alone
Even the best plan falls flat without emotional intelligence. Start within to lead well.
🔹 Find Your People
Leadership isn’t a solo act. Build your circle—mentors, coaches, truth-tellers. No one peaks alone.
33 min
July 03, 2025 How Vulnerability Rescues the Next Generation with Jose Rodrgiuez
In this powerful episode of The WiLD Conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu sit down with Jose Rodriguez, CEO of Rescue a Generation, to explore what it truly takes to build and rebuild trust—in ourselves, our teams, and the next generation of leaders.
From his courageous journey out of gang life to launching a thriving nonprofit that empowers urban youth across Southern California, Jose offers a raw and hopeful perspective on how trust isn’t earned it’s a daily, intentional choice.
Together, they unpack why vulnerability is the secret ingredient in leadership, how asking better questions, especially with Gen Z, can transform disengagement into deep ownership, and why the only way up is through trust. Whether you’re leading a team, mentoring young people, or working to rebuild broken relationships, this conversation will leave you inspired to lead with radical ownership, consistent action, and the kind of trust that changes lives.

💡 Key Leadership Takeaways:

1. Trust Is a Practiced Choice, Not a Trait Trustworthy leadership isn’t something you have—it’s something you do, daily. Jose’s story reveals that choosing trust, especially when it’s risky, is what transforms both leaders and teams.
“Trust is not a trait. It's a practiced and powerful choice.”
2. Beliefs Drive Behaviors: Change doesn't start with commands—it starts with beliefs. Great leaders get curious about what’s underneath the surface.
“If you want to change the behavior, you’ve got to find out what the belief is.”
3. Ask Better Questions: Young leaders don’t need more answers—they need to be seen and heard. Meaningful questions open doors to engagement, trust, and breakthrough.
“We live in an answer culture. But asking the right question can change everything.”
4. Repairing Trust Requires Ownership and Small Steps: Trust breaks in moments, but it’s rebuilt in tiny, consistent acts of ownership, honesty, and repair.
“Every broken commitment is actually a cry for help.”

🔗 Learn more about Rescue a Generation: https://www.rescueageneration.com/

🔗 Learn more about WiLD: https://www.wildleaders.org/

🔗 Download the State of Trust At Work report : https://info.wildleaders.org/state-of-trust-report-registration-0

1 hr 5 min
June 24, 2025The Trust Equation: Measuring, Building, and Leading with Intention a WiLD Trust Index conversation with Chris Shaffer
In this illuminating WiLD Conversation, Dr. Rob McKenna and Sabeth Kapahu sit down with Chris Shaffer, WiLD Leaders Strategic Development Architect and former Microsoft director. Chris Shaffer unpacks the profound shift in how we understand and cultivate trust in today's complex world.
Moving beyond mere information, they delve into how real trust is "worked out" through vulnerability, conflict, and genuine relationship. Discover why measuring trust isn't just about assessment, but about igniting critical conversations and empowering leaders to address hidden challenges at scale. This episode is a must-listen for any leader ready to move from the "unconscious incompetent" to the "unconscious competent" in building a culture where trust isn't just a buzzword, but a tangible, measurable foundation for success.
Five Key Leadership Takeaways:
Trust is Not Just Information; It's Interaction: Dr. McKenna emphasizes that in today's personalized information landscape, true trust goes beyond what we're told or read. It's "worked out" through conversation, tested in conflict, and proven in vulnerability. Leaders must foster environments where this interactive trust can flourish, rather than relying on one-way information dissemination.

Measure to Manage: You Can't Improve What You Don't See: Chris Shaffer powerfully argues that measuring trust moves it from the "dark" of unconscious incompetence into the "light" of conscious awareness. Without concrete data, leaders are left to guess at their organization's trust levels, making intentional improvement nearly impossible. Measuring trust provides the clarity and actionability needed to identify specific areas of strength and opportunity.

Trust Assessment Fuels Growth, Not Judgment: Counterintuitively, the most common emotional response Chris observes from leaders after seeing their trust results (even low ones) is gratitude. This isn't about passing or failing a test; it's about receiving a clear, honest picture of reality. Leaders with a growth mindset embrace these insights as a starting point for improvement, demonstrating courage and a willingness to be "editable."

Leaders Have Blind Spots – Data Illuminates Them: Whether a leader suspects a trust issue or is unsure, the Wild Trust Index illuminates strategic blind spots by providing precise details. It offers a clear framework for understanding trust at personal, team, and organizational levels, guiding leaders to focus on specific drivers rather than broad, undefined problems. This precision empowers targeted action.

Trust is the Root Cause of Culture: Complementary, Not Competitive: While culture surveys measure symptoms, the Wild Trust Index gets to the foundational root cause. Trust is the bedrock upon which healthy organizational culture is built. Measuring trust provides a deeper understanding of underlying dynamics, complementing broader culture assessments and offering actionable levers to improve overall organizational health.
56 min
June 17, 2025 Garry Ridge on The "Dumb-Ass" Way to Build Trust: Leadership Lessons from WD-40's Former CEO
In this episode of The WiLD Conversation podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with Garry Ridge, former CEO and Chairman of WD-40—a leader who transformed a household product into a global brand and one of the most admired workplace cultures in business.
Drawing from his 35-year journey at WD-40, including 25 years as CEO, Garry challenges conventional leadership norms and emphasizes the non-negotiable role of humanity in business.
Key Leadership Takeaways:
Culture is Strategy, Not a “Nice-to-Have”
Garry makes it clear: a trust-based culture isn’t secondary to results. The will of the people × the strategy = results.
The Power of a “Dumb-Ass” Mindset
Yes, you read that right. His book Any Dumbass Can Do It underscores the idea that building strong culture isn’t rocket science, it’s about humility, courage, and consistency. This mindset invites leaders to say “I don’t know” and focus on bringing out the best in others.
Intentional Self-Awareness Is Essential
Garry asks himself often, “Am I being the person I want to be right now?” For leaders, self-awareness isn’t optional. The daily work that prevents us from offering people our “leftovers.”
Tough-Minded and Tender-Hearted Leadership
Leadership isn’t a choice between strength and empathy, it’s a both/and. Garry calls for leaders who make hard decisions and hold people accountable while also caring deeply for their people and creating psychological safety.
Measure the Data but Feel the Reality
While data is key, Garry urges leaders to “get their shoes dirty" to walk alongside their teams and ensure the numbers reflect lived experience.
Belonging is a Shared Responsibility
WD-40 thrived because it clearly defined its values and invited people to choose them. Culture wasn’t enforced—it was embraced by those aligned with its purpose.
Fear is the Enemy of Trust and Learning
By redefining failure as a “learning moment,” Garry removed fear from the equation. The result? A workplace where trust, experimentation, and growth could flourish.
Purpose Beyond Profit Is Fuel
What sustained Garry’s decades-long leadership? A clear, people-centered purpose: making a positive difference in the lives of others, inside and outside the company.

1 hr 1 min
June 03, 2025Getting It Done and Doing It Right: Leading with No-Blame Bias with CEO Alex Shootman
What if the key to trust wasn’t just character—but competence, clarity, and accountability?
In this compelling episode of The WiLD Conversation Podcast, Dr. Rob McKenna sits down with longtime friend and fellow leadership practitioner Alex Shootman, CEO of Alkami Technology and author of Done Right: How Tomorrow’s Top Leaders Get Stuff Done. What unfolds is not just a sharp exchange between two seasoned leaders—but a deeply honest conversation between old friends who have walked through leadership’s messiness, pressure, and purpose together.
With decades of experience leading turnarounds and scaling high-performing software organizations, Alex shares how he grounds his leadership in four non-delegable CEO responsibilities—and how a “No-Blame Bias” has shaped the way he builds trust, manages growth, and drives both results and culture.
Drawing from a leadership framework that values both getting it done and doing it right, Alex unpacks how clear accountability, relentless transparency, and trust as a managed business function are essential to long-term success. He reminds us that in every high-performing team, trust is breaking all the time—so we must be intentional about building it all the time.
Whether you're a CEO, an emerging leader, or someone navigating the tension between results and values, this episode offers not only practical wisdom—but a refreshing window into what happens when sharp minds, shared values, and leaders-in-process come together in authentic conversation.

💡 Leadership Takeaways
The CEO’s Responsibility: Strategy, values, economic outcomes, and building the right team cannot be outsourced—they must be owned and lived by the leader.
No-Blame Bias: Creating a culture of truth-telling starts with removing fear of blame. Leaders must model and reinforce this bias to build trust across the organization.
Trust as a Business Function: Trust doesn’t self-sustain. Even in high-performing organizations, it must be constantly assessed, cultivated, and rebuilt.
The Getting It Done / Doing It Right Matrix: High-impact organizations don’t reward results at the expense of values. The real culture carriers do both—and they’re celebrated by name.
Growth Breaks Things: Just like Hemingway’s “stronger at the broken places,” growth breaks teams and systems—what matters is how leaders repair and rebuild with intention.
36 min