What happens when everything is going well, but you still feel off? In this episode, Ian and Wes open with an unfiltered conversation about burnout, energy swings, and the strange self-sabotage that kicks in when business finally gets calm. That spirals into a full teardown of GDPR, where they walk through the real-world consequences of the EU's regulatory overreach and why it did irreversible damage to Europe’s tech scene.

They break down exactly how GDPR slowed down product launches, blocked marketing experiments, and forced startups to spend thousands on compliance infrastructure. It's not a theoretical rant. It’s firsthand experience from founders who’ve lived through it.

Later, they shift gears to talk about X Ads, Grok, and what it will take for AI to finally make media buying efficient. Ian shares insights from a meeting with X’s official audience data partner and why Grok-powered ad targeting could be the next cheat code for performance marketing—if they ever get it right.

One part philosophy, one part EU critique, one part startup therapy session.

Topics Covered

- The psychological tension of being calm during growth

- Why founders self-sabotage when things go too smoothly

- Naval Ravikant, mimetic desire, and shallow decision-making

- How GDPR destroyed startup agility in the EU

- Specific compliance tasks that crushed marketing teams

- Why “easing” GDPR won’t fix anything

- X Ads and why Grok hasn’t delivered yet

- What a Grok-powered media engine could unlock

- Why most ad workflows are still too slow and bloated

- Founders need faster iteration cycles in 2025

Chapters

(0:00) Wes for Government, Opening Banter

(2:21) Burnout During Calm, When Things Go Too Well

(7:06) Do You Still Like What You're Doing

(13:01) Naval, Mimetic Drift, and Life Choices

(19:03) Why Wes Launched a Holdco

(22:57) Praise for Bureaucracy (Not Really)

(24:02) GDPR Breakdown, What Really Happened in 2018

(38:03) Compliance Hell, What Marketing Teams Actually Faced

(43:02) X Ads, Grok, and the AI Targeting Dream

(48:04) Founders vs Agencies, Speed vs Bureaucracy

(54:02) Engagement Bait and the Broken X Algorithm

(58:01) Still Value on X, but Time for a Fix

The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.

Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.

Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.

Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2

Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:

Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)

Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

Ian and Wes take you on a wild ride through Episode 19, unpacking pyramid power plant theories with nods to Graham Hancock, debating Bob Lazar’s alien whistleblowing saga, and wrestling with Europe’s Tesla vandalism wave. The stakes get real as Wes wraps Eli5’s intense hiring sprint, seven new hires streamlined with lessons for the future, while Ian revels in Noco’s overflowing pipeline, plotting faster marketing experiments with X’s Grok-powered ads. From Edge Impulse’s Qualcomm coup to the rise of Chinese car tech, hello BYD suspension, they explore growth, innovation, and legacy. Then it’s personal. Wes pitches “reality transurfing” to ditch futile rants, Ian confesses his fear of failure, and a Toyota Land Cruiser dream ties it to family roots.Chapters(0:00) - Intro and Pyramid Theories(4:40) - Alternative Tech and Lost Knowledge(7:00) - Aliens and Bob Lazar’s Story(10:40) - Geo Scotty and Classic Beauty(12:49) - Eli5 Hiring Update(16:20) - Recruitment Lessons and Tools(21:40) - Onboarding New Hires at Eli5(26:48) - Noco’s Pipeline and Growth(32:40) - Noco’s Challenges and Experimentation(38:20) - X Ads and Marketing Speed(41:40) - Eli5’s Client Diversity and Focus(46:25) - Edge Impulse and Qualcomm Deal(51:00) - Serving Clients at Scale(55:00) - Decel Mindsets and Personal Traits(1:04:20) - Tesla Vandalism and Chinese Cars(1:18:20) - Toyota Land Cruiser DreamsThe WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

In this episode, we dive into everything from scaling a business without killing the fun to automating workflows and filtering out 806 applicants. Ian breaks down Noco’s rapidly growing sales pipeline and how their flexible subscription model is finally clicking with customers. Wes shares his philosophy on keeping Eli5 lean, solving client problems that spawn new business ideas, and the painful process of hiring top-tier talent.We also discuss the AI-powered creative workflow tool Flora, how to properly validate a business idea, and why Stripe subscriptions don’t work for high-ticket B2B SaaS. Oh, and we kick things off with JD Vance memes and a nostalgic Mad Men rewatch.Timestamps:(0:00) Intro & JD Vance Memes(1:06) Rewatching Mad Men & Coca-Cola Ad(2:41) Noco Pipeline Filling Up(4:10) Noco’s New Subscription Model Clicks(7:05) Scaling Up vs. Keeping it Fun(10:07) Eli5 as an Idea Engine(14:00) Relaunching Paradigm for Product Design as a Service(19:50) How to Validate a Business Idea(25:00) Wes’s Recruitment Grind(28:09) Noco Hiring a Banger Designer(30:07) Automation at Noco(32:30) The Challenges of Automating Billing(35:00) AI-Powered Creative Workflows (Flora)(38:12) Wrapping UpThe WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, we go deep on:

The software developer job collapse – AI is eating junior developer roles. Is the middle-class engineer disappearing?

AI-powered coding in Webflow and beyond – How Webflow Apps, GSAP, and AI-driven coding tools are changing the game.

Make vs. Zapier and the automation gap – Why most businesses aren't even ready for AI workflows.

Escaping Amsterdam – Why Ian is ditching city life, exploring Starlink internet, and avoiding overpriced restaurants.

Europe’s economic mess and JD Vance’s speech – Is EU leadership completely disconnected from reality?

CRO, efficiency, and scaling Noco – The latest on Noco’s CRO push, customer insights, and why simple beats complex.

Chapters

(49:30) Wrapping up – recruiter culture and closing thoughts

The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes break down:Hiring in 2025 – Why the job market has changed, how AI is reshaping hiring, and why some candidates still show up unprepared.Elon Musk vs. Sam Altman – The OpenAI lawsuit, the drama behind its transition from nonprofit to for-profit, and the bigger picture in the AI war.Why UX wins the AI race – ChatGPT, Grok, Claude… which one is actually winning? Ian explains why UX plays a bigger role than most people think.USAID’s unhinged capital allocation – From funding LGBTQ festivals abroad to bizarre health initiatives, how government spending spirals into absurdity.The reality of government corruption – Pelosi’s insane net worth, politicians trading stocks, and how taxpayer money keeps disappearing.Can Europe have a “Doge” moment? – Will someone in the EU expose government inefficiencies the way Elon is doing in the U.S.?The pendulum swing in media control – Will mainstream media regain control of the narrative, or are we entering a new era of decentralized information?This episode is a mix of AI, politics, business, and a healthy dose of skepticism.Timestamps:(0:00) Intro & Valentine's Day discussion(3:20) Hiring challenges & workplace mentality(7:40) Job market shifts & the AI factor(12:20) Why work at Eli5? Company culture & roles(13:08) Best beat ever? Ian’s tweet & personal news(18:21) Elon Musk vs. Sam Altman feud(24:00) The AI race: competition & UX matters(27:00) X.AI employee quits over Grok 3 leak(31:45) The USAID spending scandal(36:40) Clown world & government corruption(40:00) Can Europe have its own “Doge” moment?(41:45) Media control & information monopoly(44:50) The pendulum swing: where are we headed?(47:20) Wrap-up & sign-offThe WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes tackle the hiring struggle in design, new AI-powered updates in Webflow, and a regulation allowing insect protein in food. A mix of practical insights, rants, and some well-earned laughs:The Designer Hiring Crisis – Why is it so hard to find designers with good taste? Ian and Wes discuss the massive gap between applications and actual talent.AI in Design and Development – Webflow’s new Figma-to-Webflow update and how it changes handovers for design teams.The Power of Personal Branding in Hiring– Why building an audience is the best long-term hiring strategy.Bug Protein in Your Food? – A new EU regulation allows mealworms in everyday food. Ian and Wes aren’t having it.Building for the Future – The Noco team continues to push CRO-driven web development, and Wes reflects on Eli5’s hiring spree.

A high-energy episode mixing frustration, strategy, and a touch of conspiracy.Timestamps:(0:00) Intro & Banter (2:00) Hiring Designers & The Struggle (9:00) What Makes a Great Designer? (Can Taste Be Trained?) (15:00) The Power of Personal Branding in Recruiting (24:20) The EU’s Food Regulation (Mealworms in Food) (29:00) Noco’s CRO Strategy & Productized Growth (33:00) Webflow’s AI-Powered Figma Integration (37:00) Hackathons, AI Tools & The Future of No-Code (40:00) Closing Thoughts & Outro The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes cover a mix of personal milestones, business insights, and AI-driven industry shifts:

Fatherhood and Life Changes – Ian shares the news of becoming a dad, and Wes reflects on his own journey as a parent, including the unexpected realities of raising a child.

DeepSeek AI and OpenAI’s Competition – A discussion on DeepSeek’s rise, its cost advantages, and whether it truly threatens AI incumbents like OpenAI

The Future of Compliance & AI Automation – Wes breaks down how AI is set to transform compliance-heavy industries, reducing inefficiencies and eliminating outdated workflows.

The YC 2025 Startup List – Ian and Wes review Y Combinator’s latest funding priorities, including AI-driven automation and vertical SaaS, debating whether these trends are actually groundbreaking.

AI Agents in Recruiting – The duo discusses Bordy, an AI-driven recruiter, and the inevitable automation of human-first industries.

Wes’ Obsessive Optimization Phase – Another episode, another diet and lifestyle overhaul. Wes explains his latest extreme self-improvement regimen, Ian roasts him for it, and they both agree that placebo might be 90% of the battle.

With humor, sharp analysis, and deep reflections, this episode covers some of the most relevant shifts in tech, business, and life—while reminding us all that Wes will never stop finding the ultimate way to live.

Timestamps:
(0:00) Intro and banter
(2:14) Ian announces he's becoming a dad
(8:37) Parenting reflections and dad jokes
(14:52) Wes’ latest life and diet optimization obsession
(22:25) DeepSeek AI and the competition with OpenAI
(32:18) AI's impact on compliance and regulatory automation
(42:47) The rise of AI recruiters and automated hiring
(50:33) Breaking down YC’s 2025 startup trends
(55:46) Closing reflections

The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.

In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes navigate a mix of timely and timeless topics:

In episode 12 of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes dive deep into the nuances of modern agencies, AI-driven workflows, and what it takes to create scalable, authentic content strategies. Reflecting on the constant balancing act between short-term wins and long-term growth, they explore how the pendulum of freedom, innovation, and authenticity is shaping the business landscape.

Tune in to hear unfiltered thoughts, practical insights, and the occasional synthwave soundtrack recommendation.

In episode 11 of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes ring in 2025 with an upgraded studio setup and reflections on where technology, creativity, and business are headed. From the shifting role of AI to the evolving importance of taste, intuition, and resilience, this episode is packed with insights for anyone navigating the intersection of tech and human ingenuity.