WORK IN PROGRESS

WORK IN PROGRESS

By Wes Botman, Ian PiepenbrockBusinessEntrepreneurship
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WORK IN PROGRESS episodes

  • Becoming a Dad, AI Disruptions, and Wes’ Latest Life Optimization Epiphany - Episode 14

    In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes cover a mix of personal milestones, business insights, and AI-driven industry shifts:

    Fatherhood and Life Changes – Ian shares the news of becoming a dad, and Wes reflects on his own journey as a parent, including the unexpected realities of raising a child.

    DeepSeek AI and OpenAI’s Competition – A discussion on DeepSeek’s rise, its cost advantages, and whether it truly threatens AI incumbents like OpenAI

    The Future of Compliance & AI Automation – Wes breaks down how AI is set to transform compliance-heavy industries, reducing inefficiencies and eliminating outdated workflows.

    The YC 2025 Startup List – Ian and Wes review Y Combinator’s latest funding priorities, including AI-driven automation and vertical SaaS, debating whether these trends are actually groundbreaking.

    AI Agents in Recruiting – The duo discusses Bordy, an AI-driven recruiter, and the inevitable automation of human-first industries.

    Wes’ Obsessive Optimization Phase – Another episode, another diet and lifestyle overhaul. Wes explains his latest extreme self-improvement regimen, Ian roasts him for it, and they both agree that placebo might be 90% of the battle.

    With humor, sharp analysis, and deep reflections, this episode covers some of the most relevant shifts in tech, business, and life—while reminding us all that Wes will never stop finding the ultimate way to live.


    Timestamps:
    (0:00) Intro and banter
    (2:14) Ian announces he's becoming a dad
    (8:37) Parenting reflections and dad jokes
    (14:52) Wes’ latest life and diet optimization obsession
    (22:25) DeepSeek AI and the competition with OpenAI
    (32:18) AI's impact on compliance and regulatory automation
    (42:47) The rise of AI recruiters and automated hiring
    (50:33) Breaking down YC’s 2025 startup trends
    (55:46) Closing reflections

    The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.

    Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
    Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
    Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
    Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
    Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)
    Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    1 hr
  • Vertical AI Kills SaaS, Crypto Clown Show and Trump's Techno Accelerationism Era Begins - Episode 13

    In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes navigate a mix of timely and timeless topics:

    - The Trump Inauguration: Reflections on policy shifts, executive orders, and their broader implications for society.
    - The rise of vertical AI: How hyper-specialized tools are reshaping B2B SaaS, streamlining industries with AI-driven innovation.
    - Crypto’s clown show: From Bitcoin’s original ethos to today’s meme coin culture, they explore the tech’s decline into financial nihilism and its potential future.
    - Accelerationism vs. Decelerationism: A spirited, humorous debate on what drives progress and what holds us back.
    - Personal insights: Agency life, writing processes, and balancing creativity with execution.
    Blending sharp analysis, humor, and actionable takeaways, this episode offers a candid look at the forces shaping tech, business, and culture.
    Timestamps:
    (0:00) Intro and banter
    (5:00) Trump inauguration and executive orders
    (12:00) Vertical AI’s impact on SaaS
    (28:00) Crypto’s clown show: Ethos vs. chaos
    (42:00) Accelerationism vs. Decelerationism: A fun debate
    (1:02:00) Agency life, branding, and workflows
    (1:17:00) Closing thoughts
    The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.
    Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
    Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
    Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
    Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
    Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)
    Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    1 hr 24 min
  • The Pendulum Swings: Zuckerberg Based(?), AI Agents, Content Strategy and Agency Future - Episode 12

    In episode 12 of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes dive deep into the nuances of modern agencies, AI-driven workflows, and what it takes to create scalable, authentic content strategies. Reflecting on the constant balancing act between short-term wins and long-term growth, they explore how the pendulum of freedom, innovation, and authenticity is shaping the business landscape.

    Key topics include:
    - The rise of AI agents in agencies and the shift to scalable service models.
    - The pros and cons of delegating tasks vs. maintaining direct control.
    - How personal and company-wide content strategies drive growth.
    - A candid discussion on outreach, from poorly targeted emails to Lindy AI tools.
    - Reflections on the legacy of the Dutch East India Company as a lens for modern innovation.

    Tune in to hear unfiltered thoughts, practical insights, and the occasional synthwave soundtrack recommendation.

    Chapters:
    (0:00) Intro and flu recovery struggles
    (2:30) Staying hands-on in design and delegation
    (6:30) Reflecting on Mark Zuckerberg's pivot and the pendulum of free speech
    (10:50) Building funnels and refining Noco's content strategy
    (15:40) Using AI tools to streamline podcast and content production
    (21:00) Lindy AI: Exploring workflows and outreach automation
    (27:00) Recently funded startups and tailored outreach
    (33:30) Are agencies evolving into AI-driven enterprises?
    (40:00) AI in SMEs: Opportunities for automation
    (48:30) Cultural discussions and balancing innovation with authenticity
    (1:02:00) Wrapping up: Synthwave, Dutch history, and personal reflections
    The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.
    Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
    Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
    Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
    Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
    Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)
    Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    1 hr 10 min
  • AI Predictions for 2025, Human Excellence and Platform Agnosticism vs Brand Recognition - Episode 11

    In episode 11 of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes ring in 2025 with an upgraded studio setup and reflections on where technology, creativity, and business are headed. From the shifting role of AI to the evolving importance of taste, intuition, and resilience, this episode is packed with insights for anyone navigating the intersection of tech and human ingenuity.

    Key topics include:
    (0:00) Intro and new podcast setup
    (3:00) Reflections on the WORK IN PROGRESS journey so far
    (10:00) AI’s influence on personal brands and authenticity
    (19:30) Webflow vs. Framer: balancing agnosticism and branding
    (31:00) Greg Eisenberg’s 2025 AI predictions
    (39:30) How aesthetics and architecture impact our consciousness
    (51:00) Solo entrepreneurs using AI agents to scale
    (55:00) System design and product sense in the AI era
    (56:30) Closing thoughts and Dutch Accelerationism (dutch/acc) playlist
    The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.
    Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
    Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
    Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
    Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
    Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)
    Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    55 min
  • Reflecting on 2024, building momentum for 2025 and addressing Europe's challenges - Episode 10

    In this milestone 10th episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman reflect on a transformative 2024 and lay the groundwork for an ambitious 2025. From navigating personal losses to reshaping business strategies, this conversation explores the lessons, challenges, and opportunities that defined the past year and what lies ahead.

    Highlights include:
    - The importance of resilience in business and life.
    - Reflections on the European tech ecosystem versus the U.S. landscape.
    - The shift towards human authenticity in the age of AI.
    - Why diversifying operations in the U.S. is a strategic move for 2025.
    This episode offers an honest look at the ups and downs of entrepreneurship while addressing the broader social and economic landscape.
    (0:00) Intro & Reflecting on 2024
    (5:00) Life Changes and Personal Growth
    (12:00) Lessons from Losing Major Clients
    (18:00) Building Resilience Through Hardships
    (25:00) Leveraging Predictability in Business
    (32:00) Why U.S. Companies Value Noco’s Work
    (40:00) Tech Optimism in the U.S. vs. Degrowth in Europe
    (50:00) Addressing Regulatory Challenges in Europe
    (1:00:00) Looking Ahead to 2025
    The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.
    Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
    Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
    Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
    Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
    Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)
    Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    1 hr 10 min
  • RELENTLESS value delivery, CRINGE LinkedIn takes and why HUMAN AUTHENTICITY always wins - Episode 9

    In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes navigate the highs and lows of running productized agencies and building systems that never skip a beat. From dissecting LinkedIn's "gray mass of mediocrity" to unveiling Noco's refined 2025 service offerings, the conversation touches on authenticity, content strategy, and the delicate balance between grind culture and scaling sustainably.

    This episode also covers:
    - The fatigue of fragmented work and the power of weekly routines.
    - Exploring parallels between B2B SaaS startups and productized agencies.
    - How Noco is doubling down on value with three core service pillars: Build, Optimize, Amplify.
    - LinkedIn rants and the future of digital authenticity in a post-AI world.
    A must-listen for founders, agency leaders, and anyone obsessed with systemized growth and creative performance.
    Chapters:
    (0:00) Intro: Year-End Sprints & Business Updates

    (2:30) Reflections on 2023: Challenges & Lessons Learned

    (6:00) Content Systems: Building Consistency & Avoiding Writer’s Block

    (9:30) The Power of Never Skipping a Beat

    (12:00) Burnout & The Importance of Systems for Focus

    (14:40) The Role of Creativity & Scheduling Time to Think

    (17:00) ELI5’s Focus on Productivity Tools & AI Solutions

    (20:30) Problem-Solving as the Key to New Opportunities

    (23:50) Personal Branding: Finding Your Voice in a Crowded Space

    (26:40) The Rise of Authentic Content in the AI Era

    (30:10) Physical Events & The Future of Authentic Media

    (35:00) Noco’s Value Delivery Framework & Service Offerings for 2025

    (41:30) Building, Optimizing, Amplifying: Noco’s New Approach

    (46:00) Scaling Productized Services for Creativity & Efficiency

    (52:00) LinkedIn’s Flaws & The Need for Recruitment Disruption

    (1:08:00) Closing Thoughts: LinkedIn Cringe & Holiday Wishes

    The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.
    Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
    Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
    Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
    Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
    Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)
    Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

    1 hr 11 min
  • European Accelerationism (eu/acc), OpenAI's $200/m o1 version and Wes' DTC hellscape - episode #8

    In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes dive into a rollercoaster of topics ranging from the challenges of running a direct-to-consumer (DTC) brand to the systemic issues within Europe's tech landscape. Wes opens up about the ups and downs of his DTC furniture brand, Selé, revealing valuable lessons on delegation, operations, and branding. The conversation then shifts to a candid critique of Europe's innovation stagnation, comparing it to the accelerating tech dynamism in the U.S.

    This episode also touches on:

    • The intricacies of balancing physical and digital products.
    • OpenAI's GPT o1 vs. Claude's 3. Sonnet capabilities.
    • The impact of regulation on tech innovation in Europe.

    • A must-listen for entrepreneurs, technophiles, and anyone curious about the intersection of business, technology, and culture.


      (0:00) Intro & Wes’s Morning Routine
      (2:30) The Story Behind Selé: A DTC Furniture Brand
      (8:00) Lessons Learned: Delegating Too Early
      (12:30) Operational Challenges in DTC
      (18:00) Finding the Right Production Partner
      (22:00) Marketing Strategies for DTC Brands
      (27:00) Tech & Branding: OpenAI vs. Claude
      (35:00) Why Europe’s Tech Sector Is Falling Behind
      (43:00) The Future of Europe’s Innovation Landscape
      (50:00) Balancing Remote Work and Productivity
      (1:02:00) Reflecting on Leadership in Productized Agencies
      (1:04:00) Closing Thoughts: Lessons for Entrepreneurs


      The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.

      Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible. Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
      Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRM...
      Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
      Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)
      Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)


      1 hr 35 min
    • AI Agents will take over EVERYTHING: Here's what you need to know to stay ahead - Episode #7

      In Episode #7 of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes dive into the emerging world of AI agents, their potential to revolutionize industries, and how they’re tinkering with tools like Lindy AI. They discuss practical applications, challenges, and exciting prospects for the future of automation and efficiency in business.

      Chapters:
      (0:00) Intro and Setting the Stage
      (2:15) What Are AI Agents?
      (6:40) Vertical AI vs. Lindy AI
      (11:20) AI’s Impact on Workflow Automation
      (16:35) Exploring B2B SaaS Opportunities with AI
      (20:50) Recruitment and Marketing Automation
      (26:15) The Role of AI in Compliance and Content Creation
      (31:30) Real-World Use Cases and YC Companies Leading the Way
      (37:00) Future Trends and Risks with AI Agents
      (42:45) Closing Thoughts and What’s Next for AI
      The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.
      Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
      Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
      Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
      Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
      Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)
      Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

      54 min
    • The future of DESIGN & NO-CODE websites for B2B SaaS & tech with Jelle Bot (Noco) - Episode 6

      In this episode of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian Piepenbrock and Jelle Bot explore the transformative future of no-code tools, the challenges of minimalist design in B2B SaaS, and how agencies can stay ahead in a fast-evolving creative landscape. They discuss Webflow vs. Framer, the role of AI in shaping websites, and why emotional, maximalist design may be the key to standing out in a saturated market. If you're passionate about design, creativity, and staying ahead in SaaS, this episode is for you.

      Timestamps:
      (0:00) - Introduction: Welcoming Jelle and reflecting on WORK IN PROGRESS so far
      (2:10) - The no-code revolution: Why it matters for B2B SaaS
      (10:00) - Challenges in minimalist design: Is it time for a new aesthetic?
      (17:30) - Emotional design and the rise of maximalism
      (24:00) - AI in creative workflows: Game-changer or overhyped?
      (30:15) - Webflow vs. Framer: Tools, features, and the battle for market share
      (40:00) - Webflow’s new features: Worth the hype?
      (47:00) - How agencies should prepare for future design trends
      (52:30) - Design engineers: Bridging the gap between creativity and code
      (58:00) - Attracting and retaining top design talent
      The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.
      Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
      Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
      Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
      Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
      Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)
      Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

      1 hr 5 min
    • Shifting the Overton Window, Andreessen x Joe Rogan and EU founders breaking free - Episode 5

      In Episode 5 of WORK IN PROGRESS, Ian and Wes dive into:

      • Shifting Overton Windows and its impact on entrepreneurial discourse.
      • Marc Andreessen’s explosive Joe Rogan appearance and its implications.
      • Challenges faced by European founders and how to break free from bureaucratic constraints.

      • The duo also shares insights into sleep trackers, including Wes’s personal journey with Whoop, and why sleep data can both help and harm. They explore how to optimize sleep for better health and productivity.


        Chapters:
        (0:00) - Positive affirmations and momentum in entrepreneurship
        (7:00) - Sleep trackers: Anxiety booster or productivity tool?
        (18:00) - European tech landscape: Challenges and opportunities
        (22:00) - Hampton Founders community and its European potential
        (27:00) - Marc Andreessen on Joe Rogan: Overton Window shifts
        (33:00) - The reality of censorship and debanking in tech
        (41:00) - Late civilization vibes: Lessons from history
        (48:00) - Lean governments and private-sector efficiency
        (55:00) - Competition and authenticity: Lessons from Peter Thiel and Naval Ravikant


        The WORK IN PROGRESS podcast hosted by Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, two founders who are scaling and refining their businesses every day.

        Wes Botman is founder and CEO at ⁠⁠Eli5⁠⁠ (https://eli5.io), a software studio making complex ideas simple and accessible.
        Ian Piepenbrock is CEO at ⁠⁠Noco⁠⁠ (https://noco.agency), an agency dedicated to helping B2B SaaS and tech companies grow through strategic web design and branding.
        Watch/listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2cOqBRMjjgcXKSDDIboKrt?si=6990da66e09e4ef2
        Follow us on X for more raw insights, thoughts, and a good dose of founder reality:
        Wes: ⁠⁠@wesbotman⁠⁠ (https://x.com/wesbotman)
        Ian: ⁠⁠@lamswolprins (https://x.com/lamswolprins)

        58 min

      About WORK IN PROGRESS

      From the publisher's feed

      WORK IN PROGRESS is a raw, unfiltered look at the grind of building and scaling in tech and services. Hosted by founders Ian Piepenbrock and Wes Botman, it’s for those in the trenches—still learning, still failing, still pushing.