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Janet Robin- musician

Janet Robin Bio:

"Top 20 Acoustic Rock Guitar Players"-Guitar Player Magazine, 2017

"Top 10 Female Guitarists"-Guitar World Magazine, 2012

Music audiences around the world have seen Janet Robin's incredible guitar work as a former touring member of the Lindsey Buckingham Band (from Fleetwood Mac), Meredith Brooks, Air Supply, and many other international touring artists.

In 2018, Guitar Player Magazine named her as of one of the "Top 20 Rock/Songwriter Acoustic Guitar Players" and Guitar World Magazine listed her as one of the

"Top 10 Female Guitarists."

Janet has been a guitarist since age 6 and is a veteran musician of the LA music scene. She got her start taking lessons from the legendary guitarist Randy Rhoads. In high school, she joined the all-female band Precious Metal in the 80's and went on to be signed by Polygram Records and Capitol Records. As a solo artist, she has released her over 6 cd's as a singer/songwriter and guitarist. Her latest cd, "Take me as I am" was produced by John Carter Cash (Johnny & June's son) and Chuck Turner, and was recorded at Cash Cabin Studios in Nashville.

She is also a dedicated and well respected guitar coach and has given several master guitar classes on the road and online. In 2015, she was asked to teach actress Jennifer Jason Leigh guitar for a scene in Quentin Tarantino's "Hateful Eight" movie. The actress was subsequently nominated for an Academy Award for that role. She tours worldwide as a solo artist and is also a member of the instrumental all guitar band, The String Revolution. TSR currently has over 4 million Spotify plays and in 2019, was invited to perform at The Grammy Museum in Los Angeles, CA. They recently released a unique instrumental version of "Crazy Train" that features Billy Idol's long time guitarist, Steve Stevens on the solo. TSR's song was added to full rotation on SiriusXM Instrumental Channel in March 2022. They have since signed a management deal with Miles Copeland International and look forward to touring in 2023.

www.janetrobin.com

www.thestringrevolution.com

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcript: Vision In Word

Marlana

Today's guest is beyond impressive. A guitarist since the age of six Janet Robin got her start taking lessons from the legendary Randy Rhoads. In high school she joined the all-female band Precious Metal Music, and later toured with the Lindsey Buckingham band, Meredith Brooks air supply and many other international artists. She now tours as a solo artist and also as member of the Instrumental Guitar band, The String Revolution. I have seen Janet play, and she's absolutely incredible. No wonder she has been named as one of the top 10 Female guitarists. Welcome, Janet!

Janet

Oh! That's quite well, that's a lot to live up to. I'll take it, you know, all good.

Marlana

So, let me just start by asking why guitar, what drew you to that in the first place?

Janet

It was my brother, to be honest with you, I have two brothers and the middle brother started taking guitar, he was really into music, like I was always hearing Zepplin and you know, all that Great 70s music. He started taking guitar. And then I saw my mom was going to try it. And I was like, Oh, my mom? And I just was like, you know, I'm going to try. I had tried everything like, you know, dance and karate and all these other things, sports and I didn't have a connection to it on. And when they took a lesson, I actually went around five to the guitar store. And the guy there was like, your hands are too small. Come back next year.

My brother kept taking lessons, my mom fell off. But I did, I came back at six and I tried it. I can't completely remember it. But I just it felt natural. You know, like, in my hands. Even though like at the time, it was like a big nylon string, big neck. And I have actually quite small hands. I wasn't intimidated by that. And I wasn't intimidated by anything, you know, maybe the sports, it was like all this competition, you know, and then the dance, same thing, all these other people in the class. This was like a one-on-one thing. And I really liked the intricacies of it on. And I think guitar over piano because I saw these like rock star posters in my brother's room of Jimmy Page and all these people, and I was like, they look cool. I want to be like that. So, that's how it started. And I just kept going. My brother's now a dentist. So funny! My mom was a librarian.

Marlana

I'm troubled. That's funny. So how did it feel the first time you ever got on stage?

Janet

Well, I mean, it depends on which stage because I absolutely remember the first time like any kind of stage as far as with my guitar was a talent show in second grade.

Marlana

Oh, wow!

Janet

In the elementary school auditorium, and I played Tom Dooley and down . It's terrible, like several song like the words. But anyway, I really enjoyed it. I feel natural on stage. You know, a lot of people get nervous and stuff. And I think I'm just a performer, even at that young age. But later when it was like a more professional thing. I mean, the band precious metal, our first show was in high school on the high school choir, you know, lunch time, and you know, all my friends were there. And we had a big sound system and everything that was pretty cool. I just like stages, period.

Marlana

Do you ever get nervous?

Janet

Oh! Sure! Definitely! I think sometimes when there's something new, like several new songs, new parts. And I want perfection so much. I sort of freaked myself out sometimes but never enough to be like a stage fright. I do not get stage fright. and usually the minute I'm on stage, something just kicks in, and I'm just like, Okay, I mean, after now, so many years of being on stage, you make it work on. But yeah, I can tell like, Oh, I was a little bit more, you know, nervous and not in the moment. Sometimes if I'm playing too fast, or something like that, you know, and I think that's a Natural? Listen, if you weren't nervous or didn't have some kind of a little anxiety about it, and then you would just be bored, wouldn't you on stage? And no one wants to see a board performer. You know, that would be true.

Marlana

All right! So, what do you think has been the most difficult part of the music industry to you?

Janet

All of it, it's all difficult. Anytime you decide to make a creative endeavor, your career and to make a living off of it, it's all difficult because it's all subjective. And you may have no control over what you put out in some ways, unless you're signed to a major label or something, and they were like, you know, forcing you to do stuff. Not that all major labels, have you done that. But, you know, my point is, anytime you're trying to sell, like, art, it's subjective. So you've got all these other people, you know, deciding whether that's good enough to sell, if they like it, what do they want to buy, I mean, you know, part of me, you're not just like, doing a duty, a duty every day, you know, from nine to five, taking home a certain amount of pay every day, every week which is great, you know, for some people, and it's steady, and all those things.

I don't think I've ever been, like, I'm conservative, in some ways, we're structured and conservative in some of my decisions and things, and in life and stuff. But I've always been like, wild child, and, you know, free, let me run around and be a crazy person, I can't be in a box, you know, and I think it suits me I do I get bored, you know, if I have to do like, the same thing for eight hours and just sitting there. Unless it's like a guitar part that I have to get, you know. So, I think that it's just by nature, a creative process, a creative art, art that you're trying to sell is difficult. If you are trying to make a living at it, period.

Marlana

you know, and I've always thought too, with any creative field, in any creative endeavor. I know for me, whenever I create anything, it's like, a piece of you like this child of yours goes out into the world. And you're proud of it, you're protective of it, but also to it becomes it takes on a different momentum and a different meaning than let's say, if you're just creating widgets, or something that you're not attached to, and it's not a piece of you.

Janet

Yeah, that's true. And over the years, I've had to learn some detachment on a professional level, in order to keep fluid and keep things moving. You know, I used to be really overprotective and really, like, I'm still a little OCD about things. And I don't know if that suited me that. Well, you know, maybe when I was younger, you know, it helped with a few things. But I think it freaked a lot of people out and you know, I had to like kind of just chill about some things in order to move my career forward.

Marlana

So, let's say if talent is a given, why do you think some people make it and others don't?

Janet

Oh, clearly, because of it being a difficult, non-stable situation, especially if you if you want to have a family and you want to buy a house and you want to do all these things, you know, I certainly had the grades to become a lawyer, you know, or a doctor or something even though I'm not into science or anything like that. But I went to UCLA; I had great grades I did very well in school. I come from a highly educated family, everybody is a doctor, dentist or whatever, you know. And it just I think some people need that security. And it's too hard. It's too unstable.

Also, what you were just talking about the personal rejection level of it all on. It was hard when I was younger, yeah. If I was rejected for something or somebody didn't like my guitar playing or my song or I didn't get the audition in this band or whatever, you do kind of take it personal and But then if you love what you do so much, you must move past that and decide, Okay, is there a lesson that I can learn from that, so that maybe the next time around, I won't do that, and it will help me move further. That's too much work sometimes for people too much work. And it's very, like, it's all about you, you know, and that makes it difficult with relationships and family. I mean, there's so much, you know, um, and that's totally fine. For other people want that? You know, you're right, there's certainly so many people I know, that have these amazing voices. And they just didn't, they didn't want this kind of life. It didn't suit them. You know, and that's totally great. I respect that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a battle. It's a battle.

Marlana

Yeah. And, you know, you hit on something, too. And I think it's also realizing that not all criticism is coming from a place to just target data call. Sometimes, there are things that you really need to take to heart and adjust. And it's true, everybody does that either.

Janet

What I try to tell guitar students and people who want to be in the music industry is just look at the source. Okay, what was what's the source of the criticism? Who are they? What experience do they have? Because as much as what you just said is true. The opposite is also true. Some people want to tear you down because they're jealous. They're envious, you know, myriad of reasons. Or they're just ***. You know, can I use that word on this podcast?

Marlana

So how have you put yourself in a position for the opportunities that you've had, riding with heart and touring with Lindsey, Buckingham, and all these kinds of things?

Janet

Never giving up. Just keep moving forward learning, always striving to get better on relentless pursuing of the art form, getting better at it, learning as much as you can, putting yourself out there, taking chances, all of the above, and that's true for anybody. For example, starting a business, it's not only in this business, that's the thing, this is a business. So, if you want to make a living at it, you have to take chances, you have to take risks, you have to fail. You have to get up again and start over.

Marlana

What's been your fondest collaboration?

Janet

Oh, definitely Lindsey Buckingham, you know, working with him, and the end and the ladies in heart, they were the idols of mine growing up because as a woman, a little girl, there was not very many female rocker chicks that I could identify with and they were truly the only ones For me, that kind of music, the harder edge music on.

But Lindsay came as a surprise, always was like a Fleetwood Mac fan, but I had never dived so deep into that music, and he's under-appreciated guitar icon. I think because he also fits in being an amazing songwriter, and an amazing producer. He's not just this like one thing, you know, where he's like focused on that, he's so many things to me, and an amazing performer as well. He encompasses all of what to me is being a musician, and I really had no idea about that. I knew he was a great guitar player.

Until I got that gig and started working with him at the right time, in my life on I always look back on that and think, how much it gave me I mean, I've talked to other people about my time with Lindsay and I liken it to like, you know, getting sort of your master's degree, or working on your thesis or something like that, whereas Precious Metal was great. I love the girls and I was so young and that was like the 80s and rock and roll and, you know, all that and we got signed, but when I got the gig with Lindsay, you know, it was another level.

So that was like college for me, and then I went to this other level with him, and from then on, I sort of never looked back at any kind of lower type of quality. be in as to the music and the musicianship and the kind of how I wanted to align myself with different other musicians. And from then on, and how I saw myself and what could I expect for myself too, really taught me. He was a mentor, he continued sort of to be a mentor, also after that gig, and he's, he's still as I see him every once in a while, and we talk . Incredible person!

Marlana

So, what would then be your dream collaboration going forward?

Janet

You could work with anybody that you haven't. I mean, anybody from Zeppelin? You know, they're amazing, Robert, or Jimmy. But gosh! Isn't it everybody's dream to like, write a song with Paul McCartney?

Marlana

Yeah.

Janet

like, be in the room with him. Or a Beatle of any sort?

Marlana

unfortunately, they're getting less and less.

Janet

They are. Yeah. But there's so many amazing people out there. That would be so like, interesting to work with. Just that I still find myself, you know, always like, wanting to experience somebody, something new. Unfortunately, I can't answer your one question that way. But yeah, like childhood dreams. Yeah. I mean, working with the Wilsons that's been fulfilled and what I've worked with them again, sure, but it's been fulfilled. That's amazing. But I mean, moving forward, Lady Gaga, and you know, all these amazing people out there.

Marlana

I know that you teach guitar, what do you look for in a guitar player, or in a musician that you're mentoring or teaching?

Janet

the main thing I look for in any musician, or a student is persistence and commitment. That's all I look for.

Marlana

Interesting!

Janet

You know, I don't think that, for example, I may have some new music DNA and me because I know I had some relatives that played violin and did you know, my grandmother played piano was very artistic, but I don't think I was a natural born musician. I'm 55, that's a ***load of a lot, a long time to play and be committed. And then, you know, between 1817 and now having just this immense work of professional time, you know, with these amazing artists, and then also experienced putting my own stuff out there and going out on the road alone and doing all those things, that doesn't take talent. You know, that doesn't take musical talent. I'm not saying not having musical talent doesn't help. That takes drive, persistence, commitment, and I'm always trying to get better and better at my craft and just by years of doing it you do you get better. My instincts are pretty spot on. My ears are so much better. I consider myself more of a natural musician, you know, for example, but I don't think I was when I started, like, you hear of Mozart, or these are my teacher, Randy rose. I think they were like these born, savant, right. So, I just think if you're committed, and you're determined, and you practice, and you learn. That's what I look for.

Marlana

Do you think it took you a long time to sound like you?

Janet

Yeah. ***load, a long time. And I mean, when I got it into my 40s and 50s, I started caring less about what people thought about things. When I was younger, I really cared a lot. It's affected me mentally...

My name is Sierra Levesque and my business is under my name (Sierra Levesque Music).

Sierra Levesque is a 17-year-old Rock artist from Pembroke, Ontario, Canada and her goal is to help lead the NEW GENERATION of Rock 'N Roll. Sierra is a singer/songwriter, and she also plays guitar, piano, bass, and drums. Sierra has been described as a combination of Ann and Nancy Wilson, with the powerful voice of Ann and the skilled, catchy guitar playing of Nancy.

Sierra has already gained notoriety from large media outlets, as well as from some powerful figures in the Rock music industry including Nancy Wilson (Heart), Ron 'Bumblefoot' Thal (Sons Of Apollo, Asia, ex Guns 'N Roses), DJ Ashba (SIXX A.M, ex Guns 'N Roses), Desmond Child (Songwriter for Bon Jovi, Joan Jett, KISS), and Mark Slaughter (Slaughter) to name a few.

She hopes to use her original music to provide a voice for those who feel like outsiders, and to re-light the flame of Rock 'N Roll in society today.

Social media accounts: https://linktr.ee/sierralevesquemusic

Website:

www.sierralevesquemusic.com

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcription : Vision In Word

Marlana:

Sierra Levesque is a 17-year-old rock artist from Pembroke, Ontario, Canada. And her goal is to help lead the new generation of rock and roll. Sierra is a singer, songwriter who also plays guitar, piano, bass, and drums. Sierra has already gained notoriety from large media outlets, as well as some powerful figures in the rock music industry. She hopes to use her original music to provide a voice for those who feel like outsiders and to relight the flame of rock and roll in society today. Welcome, Sierra.

Sierra:

Thank you very much for having me!

Marlana:

So, we met the beginning of May and I have to say, when you first meet you, you are very easy to fall in love with because you are very, very talented, but you are also just a genuinely nice person, which goes a long way.

Sierra:

Thank you.

Marlana:

Here's the thing, you could be talented, and you can be a nice person, but those things don't always get you far. So, what are you doing to really grow your brand and your reputation?

Sierra:

Well, I would say the first thing is anytime I perform or anywhere that I go, I always try and thank the establishment and speak to the owners as well. That really helps because some people, you know, just perform in a place and then might leave after something like that. But I always make a point to go up to the owner after whoever booked me and say, thank you and tell them that if they'd ever like to have me back again, I'd love to. So, stuff like that is just creating the connection. And also, just establishing that. I appreciate it. And also, just the fact that when I do schedule my performances, I really emphasize how excited I am and how I would love to perform. It's more of an exciting thing rather than just a business transaction. I kind of make sure that I convey that I'm excited.

Marlana:

Nice! I know that you also have quite the social media following. How does that play into things and how did you grow that?

Sierra:

Well, about a few years ago before COVID happened, my social media was quite limited. I rarely post and a lot of the time I just posted selfies. I didn't post too much to do with music, but then once COVID happened and we were all stuck inside, especially here in Canada, the restrictions were quite tight. I, and my parents, then I thought of a way that I could keep busy. And that was to do some online posts and online virtual performances. So, what I did was in 2020 starting right at the beginning every Sunday night, I would go live on Facebook and Instagram, and I would perform for about an hour, about eight to 10 songs. And each week I would ask people for requests, and it would be a combination of covers and original songs. So that in itself helped gain a following, especially from local people who had seen me perform places out but didn't quite know I had social media.

I also made sure that I got the name Sierra Levesque music on every platform, cuz I hadn't really been using that before. My funny story, my original Instagram name that I had until COVID almost was Sierra Ate Cupcake. So, the decision to change, that was probably a smart one because that's really helped me to keep the brand across all social media platforms the same. And I also built my own website during COVID. I didn't have one before COVID, so I spent a lot of time building that and connecting it to all the platforms. So, I would say it was really a combination of posting a lot doing the virtual concerts and also just telling people anywhere I went hi, I just have an Instagram. Now I have Facebook. Now I have YouTube. Please follow me. So, that really helped.

Marlana:

Did you know what you were doing with social media originally or was it kind of feeling your way?

Sierra:

Well, at first it was really feeling my way because I hadn't had too much experience. Like I said, I was used to posting selfies, not too many things to do with music, but then I was fortunate to take a Berkeley College of Music online course. So, these were 12-week courses. I did a few, but the first one I did was rock history. So that didn't gimme too much insight into social media. But then after that I moved into the music business path. And during those courses I did online music business, online music marketing, and then a new one of music marketing called Modern Music Marketing, Building Your Online Digital Brand. So that was really something that helped there were lessons throughout the 12 weeks that were solely about Instagram or solely about YouTube and a lot of the stuff that I learned there, I've taken with me into my everyday use of it,

Marlana:

And I think that's a really important thing because I know with most artists, no matter what it, whether you're in music or photography or whatever, a lot of us think that, oh, we're just going to do what we do. And we don't really take into account the business aspect of things. And it's really important to know the business aspect of things.

Sierra:

Yes.

Marlana:

And I know you do a lot of your own booking and things like that. So, how has that helped you?

Sierra:

Well, in my music marketing classes and music business classes, we had to put together final projects where we would make up a fictional or non-fictional artist and we had to plan a tour for them. So, it had too also be not too fake. It had to be actually places where we could tour ourselves. So, my tour that I made up was places all around where I live here in Ontario and it wasn't as much the places, but the emphasis on how to approach them, what to do in order to make a good relationship with venues and how to promote yourself to possible venues who are looking for music. So that in the music business part really helped me with, having something good that I can send out to multiple places if I wanna perform. Because like I said before, COVID, if I were to try and book myself in certain places, I most likely wouldn't have got in. Cause I didn't have a social media presence. No one really knew what I was doing. They would just have to be at another performance to see it. But now I just go ahead, and I send my link to my Instagram and website to them. They can look at all my videos, so my past performances and stuff like that. And they can really get a feel of who I am so that they trust it. I'll be good if I perform in their

Marlana:

And just to reemphasize you're 17 and you've got all this down.

Sierra:

Thank you! I've been working for a long time. I started really pursuing music for real at age seven. So, it's been about 10 years now of kind of hustling throughout my local community first and now I'm really starting to build my branches out further, but yeah, it's been a long process of work, learning, a lot of taking advice and learning from people. It's been really useful over the past 10 years to really just learn all that I can.

Marlana:

Do you just take every opportunity, or do you go out and create your own opportunities or is it kind of a little bit of both?

Sierra:

I would say both because a lot of the time I'll still get approached by people for opportunities. So usually, 95% of the time I'll take it because it's a new place I could perform in new people, new audience, anything like that. I'll say, yep! I'd love to do it! But also, if there's a place where I specifically would like to perform or I think it would help me, that's when I try and create the opportunity for myself and market myself. So yeah, kind of a mixture of both. I would say the opportunities that people offer to me are more in where I live kind of around the area since they already know me. But since people in other places don't know me yet, that's when I usually have to try and create the opportunities for myself.

Marlana:

Any place that is your dream to perform?

Sierra:

Well, my dream to perform one day is in England, actually at Wembley stadium. So ,right now, I'm a little bit far away from that, but hopefully one day I'll be able to create that opportunity for myself somehow. So yes, that's like the big, big goal. But in general, I really am just looking forward to hopefully performing a little bit more throughout the U.S. I did that a little bit in Los Angeles, had a few things there and kind of going to a few major cities and trying to set things up in those places are my next goal.

Marlana:

Nice! And you alluded to Los Angeles because we met at first ever women's only rock and roll fantasy camp. What would you like to see happen to the rock industry for women?

Sierra:

Well, I would say I would like to see it be equal because right now there are a lot less women rockers that I've seen and that inspire people than men in certain situations, I'm inspired equally by certain women rockers, certain men, rockers, everything like that. So, I'd definitely like to see a lot more women rockers. That's the main thing. I mean, there are definitely a lot of opportunities for women, especially now I find with this new rock camp, there's a lot of foundations like the She Rocks Foundation that really help women. And so, I would say if those things keep going and just putting an emphasis on letting girls rock, that would be awesome.

Marlana:

Who's been an influence on you?

Sierra:

Well, the main female influences have been Anne and Nancy Wilson from heart. And then I also really like Taylor Musson from the pretty reckless, I really like their music. Also, just the guitar playing of certain people like Lea Ford. I love her guitar playing. I actually have right behind me or this one, you can't see it, but this is a leader Ford guitar there that I really love. She's been an influence as well as Lizzy Hale. She's been a really big influence on all female guitars. So, stuff like that. I mean, they're the main ones. There's a lot of variety in who I've been inspired by, but those are the main people I would say, Nancy are the top and there's a lot more below them too.

Marlana:

And I know that you play multiple instruments. Is guitar you're thing of choice?

Sierra:

I would say yes, if I can't sing and if I can't write songs, I'd probably go to the guitar second after that. And then after that it would be kind of piano's a little bit less to transport. So, guitar's a little bit easier to just take on your back and go to places. So that's why I think.

Marlana:

Yeah. So how are you bringing a new voice to rock and roll?

Sierra:

Well, I think that my music is definitely different than what has been created before, because I grew up listening to a lot of different people, a lot of different sounds and stuff like that. So, when you listen to the original music that I play at a live show, you may notice that some songs are quite heavy. I have a few songs called New Generation, Get Off My Stage. They're quite heavy and kind of in your face, rock and roll, but then I'll switch gears very quickly to other ones that are quite soft and almost have cues of the other genres in them. I have one called Left, Looking Gray. That's just on acoustic. And that one's very nice, calm, quiet as well as a few others that are just kind of acoustic, but still have that rock and roll feeling to them. All my lyrics really have specific messages.

So usually, I don't decide to make a song. Okay, I'm gonna make this sound like rock and roll. I just do it based on kind of the lyrics in the feel of it. But it all ends up in some way, still sounding a little bit more on the rock alternative side, which is cool. But people have definitely mentioned me before that, you know, they were expecting my music to all sound like one certain sound, you know, they wanted to hear my sound, but really what I say is, you know what my sound is, the fact that I have a variety of sounds, it's kind of like that. So yeah, one day when I start releasing my music, which I hope will be soon later this year, I'm hoping to release my first single. Think people will see a glimpse into the harder side of the stuff that I do. But then as time goes on, I'll kind of he broaden, broadening out my horizons to a few other different hues ,

Marlana:

I I've talked to people in the past and they say, when you write, it usually comes from a place of experience or things like that. And not to harp on this, but you're 17. So, where do you pull your experience from to be able to write?

Sierra:

Well, a lot of the theme in some of the songs I've written has been experience from feeling a little bit like an outsider, because where I live, especially a lot of the people like country music and stuff like that. So, rock music is definitely not the main thing where I live, which has been a struggle at some points. So, when I go to school and stuff like that, and I'm wearing my rock t-shirts people don't know the bands who are on them. I've had people come up to me where I've been wearing an Abba shirt and they say, who is ABBA? And it's just like, oh goodness! ,so certain times I feel a little bit like an outsider in school or just anywhere around where I live. So, a lot of my songs, like one that I have called Worlds In My Head, it's about wanting to escape to the worlds that are in my mind because I feel like an outsider.

So, I would say my experience of feeling like that has really helped me in my songwriting and also my experience of wanting to help lead the new generation of rock and roll has helped with specifically my song, (New Generation,) it's talking about kind of rock history. I mentioned 1985 at Wembley referring to live aid, stuff like that. So, I would say a mixture of what I've learned about rock music from my courses, as well as personal experience that I've had of feeling a little bit different than other people has been the main things that have helped me so far,

Marlana:

Are you primarily a solo act or do you ever collaborate with others?

Sierra:

Well, primarily I would say solo just due to the fact that, like I said, where I live there aren't too many musicians. There's definitely a good pool of them who are very talented, but there's not too many. So, I have had quite a few shows now where I'll be with a...

Being an entrepreneur is a tough business and not for the weak at heart, even when it gets the attention of the FBI.

Jeremy Delk is a serial entrepreneur with a passion for disrupting industries. Since 2001, his businesses have earned hundreds of millions in revenue, created 100's of high paying American jobs, as well as other notable distinctions:

● Inc 500 - 21st Fastest Growing Company

● Inc 500 - 4th Fastest Growing Company in Health

He jumped into entrepreneurial ventures with the naivety of a child and the tenacity of a tycoon. He started day trading at the age of sixteen, learning and failing with each trade. It is this process of adapting through failures that is paramount to his success in business.

His knowledge and skill as a day trader helped him land a job as one of the youngest brokers at Fidelity trading institutional equities in Boston, and later in New York. It didn't fulfill the entrepreneurial spark within him, so he decided to go out on his own creating Delk Enterprises. More than 20 years later, Delk Enterprises has holdings in biotech & healthcare, consumer brands, technology, building materials, and real estate development.

Jeremy now focuses on investing in and advising entrepreneurs through speaking. His upcoming book shares his reality of the Good, Bad, and UGLY of entrepreneurship. It serves as a not-so-subtle reminder of fundamental principles he's learned through his journey: while great times don't last forever, neither do the truly bad ones.

https://jeremydelk.com/

https://www.instagram.com/jeremysdelk/?hl=en

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcription : Vision In Word

Marlana:

Being an entrepreneur is a tough business and not for the week at heart. Jeremy Delk is a serial entrepreneur with a passion for disrupting industries. Since 2001, his businesses have earned hundreds of millions in revenue created hundreds of high paying American jobs, as well as other notable distinctions. Welcome Jeremy.

Jeremy:

Thanks for having me.

Marlana:

So, talk to me about disrupting our industry. What does that term mean to you?

Jeremy:

Well, I think I don't know that I set out to be a disruptor. I think it just kind of happened by my approach. And I think my approach is one of just really trying to keep it to the basics and what I've learned in my, not so short 20 plus year career now is that overarchingly businesses, businesses, business, and people do business with people. So many times, I see entrepreneurs go through and they're trying to well that, that doesn't work in this industry, or it's not done that way. And what I've typically done is taken from step to step to step, whether it's wall street to building materials, to really whatever industry I've been in healthcare, I've taken a simple approach of, okay, what's our good product or service. Who's our avatar, who's our customer, and how do we make a great experience for that customer?

If you center those pieces in there oftentimes you do things differently. Now, it always doesn't work. You just mentioned a couple like accolades of mine. There's probably a laundry list that would take up the host show of failures that I've had, but when it works, it's pretty special. But you do it outside looking in as you're this crazy disruptor, which you're really not. You're just doing things in a more simplified approach, serving the customer first, not industry. So, it's very industry agnostic.

Marlana:

Because people always throw out, you know, creating a great customer experience or creating a different customer experience or creating a high-level customer experience. Talk to me about the things that go into your customer experience.

Jeremy:

Well, for me I guess it starts even further back with what the businesses are. I'm a serial entrepreneur, because I probably got some mental issues where I just don't like stability. I want to go through crash the challenge and then once it's actually working and I've built a company to like, wow, it's profitable and making revenue. And then it's just about scaling and improving processes. I'm a pretty good process guy, but once it's just, you know, take it and run with it, I really lose interest. So, for me it's always that, well, what's the next thing? I'm a manufacturer. Well, what's past manufacturer being an OEM private label, whatever it tap, you know, tends to be it's the first piece? What is there really something that's unique or a value proposition that's doing something differently that makes me interested.

It has to be fun for me and it's gotta be an ability for me to learn something. I think that once I triggered in on that, let's say, let's say it's healthcare, I didn't get into finding all these healthcare companies and telemedicine diagnostics as a vision board. I did it by a small step, made an investment in a pharmacy business. And then that opened me up to a world with which I wasn't familiar. And then it got me really excited and then really frustrated, well, why this is so great. Like I had my own healthcare journal journey personally. And I was like, wow, this is great. And then that shifted to why doesn't everyone know about this. So now it became more of a passion or a mission of like, Hey, what's wrong? Where is the disconnect?

I can take the whole podcast up on going through that. But from the that's the obsession, it's the customer obsession of like, Hey, what I have everyone actually needs. There's not a trick or stick to it. They actually need this. And if they don't get my good service or product, I'm doing them a disservice. So, if you have that passion or obsession, then what you do is really drive into the customer or the end customer. Like what is it, what are the barriers or the components that are keeping them from experiencing or taking that product on. So, it's really just putting yourself in the customer's piece. Of understanding where they are. They watch the news, or they filter about the economy and election, like, where are they understanding their pain points and trying to deliver on, and that's all a guess.

I think you don't know that it's all theory and you just try and start the, the trick in what makes it really impactful in where you get customers really to become raving fans is you actually talk to them just crazy or you then besides talking to them, the next level of that is actually me listening to them and taking it valuable. Like, Hey, that makes sense. Let me try and improve that process for you. People forget that. So many times, people forget, you know, there's a customer giving you a credit card or money across the counter. That's not a transaction, it's a relationship. Right. And you have to treat it like such, otherwise your transactions will be fewer and fewer and less reoccurring. If you treat it as a relationship and understand like, Hey, how was that?

But they bought your product. Good. How so many people don't follow up and say, how was your experience? They do all of this. I know I can go to; I've got a digital media company as well. So, retargeting and pickling, and going through this elaborate success and, you know, attrition and these complete funnels in relationships to go through and get a customer. And then once they get me, they'll put on a nurture campaign that follows up with every three. The hard part's getting someone in your sandbox, and if you really look at that, as that's a challenge, don't get me wrong. Especially with advertising things moving, but getting someone is one piece, keeping them is so much easier, but people forget about it.

Marlana:

And I've heard that along the way from several people that it is cheaper. So to speak, to keep the customers that you have and, and market to those people then to try and go out and get others because those people are already invested with you, whether it be literally invested or mentally invested or whatever.

Jeremy:

That's right. And then also, oftentimes, you know, let's say you're selling Popsicle stick, whatever widget you're selling. Sometimes they don't need another Popsicle stick, but that if you do what I said first, and actually let's have a conversation with our customer, how did it work? Did you like the Popsicle stick? Was it great to taste? Like, what was it? And then that's the utility. Maybe you wanna make Popsicle houses with your kids. Well, now you need more. So, listening to them, getting that feedback can often time lead to new products or products spinoffs, or additional things that you could repackage and service. Then you are now going deeper in the wallet share as opposed to wider. So, then that's an easy way to help grow and scale your businesses,

Marlana:

You know, and that's another interesting point that you bring up because I've always had the thought that, and I learned this along the way from people that I've spoken to as an entrepreneur, especially if you are just starting out, you don't have to go wide in relationships when you can go deep in a few, because as you go deep in those few, that will help you. And those people will become your allies and your advocates.

Jeremy:

Exactly.! I think that's where the learning makes a ton of difference. And, you know, I've got a book coming out end this year called Without A Plan. And it's very much a memoir of how I've went through life, and it's not live pops and gum drops just, I'm gonna be super successful. It's not that obtuse where you have zero plan, but it's not far from it. It's just taking a step. Hey, I want to go. And we're just gonna really belabor Popsicle, say, I wanna be the best Popsicle business guy ever. So, let's not go through and think about all the different ways because it's not gonna work anyway. Let's just go through and start, get going, have a vision of kind of where I want to go, but not get so inundated with this paralysis by analysis. So, you never begin. And then once you start, then that's like your beta users and your early adopters where you can go through like, Hey, how's that going? What's going through, you learn so much that piece where you really refine it before you go wide.

Marlana:

So, do you see holes in different industries and lean in? Do you start with things that interest you and see how you can adapt it? How do you start in your process when you're going to be investing in something or changing something?

Jeremy:

And just be super open? I think it's my career. So, this is, and then you can tell me if you planned for this. My career started day trading. When I was 19, making a bunch of money, losing a bunch of money wall street to my own venture capital from 20 years ago, building materials, building manufacturing, windows, and doors, animal health, regenerative medicine, human health, pharmaceutical, epigenetic diagnostics, and telemedicine, plus a little digital media and equine in a couple other businesses in there. There's no way you have like, that's the typical roadmap. What's happened is relationships or, Hey, I've had a relationship here with this individual and this opportunity came up. I just say yes to a lot of things, mainly because I've got again, probably back to mental and like a lot of little attention deficit components where I just always wanna see more, but really it comes down to learning like that's interesting.

I don't know. Cause no one knows like how do you know if it's gonna work? So many people live in like, well you wanna go into, you know, Elon Musk wants to go into, you know, make reusable rockets. That's dumb. That will never happen. And maybe someone had the idea before, but he's said, well, let's just run it this stream and just see what actually happens with it. So, so many times, if you can just be open to an opportunity and see them, and then the other part of that is failure. Right. You know, it, I, I think there's a huge component of a mindset around failure. That's probably started even in school when you're young, that that's a bad thing. I'm not trying to keep plugging here, but it's without a plan and it's a memoir of Unbound action and failing my way to success.

I talk about all of the accolades D 500, all that crap, that everyone has their own CV and resume. Dude. That's not really important. What's important is how I fell on my and how I did all these other things to actually get there. Those are the lessons that I've learned. I'm a better entrepreneur now than was 20 years ago. Not because I read some cool book it's because I got my S kit a ton and I learned from that. So, embracing that failure and just going through is something I'm overly passionate about and I try to fail fast. I try to break it. So, if so, I think that's an important piece because you, you can't no one has enough time to say yes to everything indefinitely. So, if we're going back to popsicles, let's do it.

Hey Joel, let's go through and figure out the Popsicle business, but let's define success or failure right now. It will be, we're gonna sell a billion popsicles in six months or we're not it's binary because after that, when that six-month process, you start to get emotional about it right after you're in it. And now it's your baby and maybe your Popsicle baby's ugly. It's hard to do that when you're in the moment. But if you predetermined, Hey, at this point I'm calling time of death, or we're going to the next level, that's the best way to do it. So, I try to get that. I try never wait, six months, I try to break something and ruin it in two months because get great customer feedback, come up with a prototype, go through, sell it, give it away, whatever you think, get it. And then the market will speak. Could be the best idea ever market may not be ready, or it could be overpriced or underpriced. So, it's the best way to just get information and then store that because down the track, maybe it wasn't right then, but five years it could be.

Marlana:

So do you tend to say yes to everything, then do the research or do you kind of research it and then say yes?

Jeremy:

In tandem or in parallel? I tend just to say yes, because I wanna learn. There's no way to have an informed opinion unless you know the industry. If I know the business, I know that this is a Bolton. So, I'm in healthcare. I'm wearing my healthcare hat. If I know the space and I know the economics, like that's easier for me to Do because I know like, yeah, if I take that, eliminate something, plug it into my group it'll just make money. So those are easier. But I'm looking at software deal right now in university. I don't know anything about, I know about SAS businesses. I know they're valued really well, but I don't know anything about it. So, I think my pitch to the entrepreneur was like, I think I can make it work.

I think I can get you the money. It's coming from me. So that's, I think as long as I believe it, I can give you the money. I think my other bolt on shared services can actually help and I've got a little bit of experience in business. So, it's a yes with those contingencies, like, Hey, I need to figure out, I need to check your balance sheet. I need to look what's your cash flow statements. Look like, I need to understand the stickiness to their customer. So would a yes, but it's not an immediate yeah, here you go. And then find out. So, it's that component cause otherwise, what are you doing? You're not just, you have to be somewhat interested and there's things that I'm not interested in. There's some businesses that just don't excite me. Or I don't think I can add value. So, I just politely say, Hey, maybe I can, maybe I'm not investor in that business. Maybe I'm a business coach or I'm an advisor or I'm a different role that can help. And if that's beneficial for both parties, I look at that too,

Marlana:

You touched on failure, and I think that's something that so many people shy away from and it's so critical to be able to fail, because people often don't see the journey. They only see the end result, and so, they don't realize how many times that successful person has failed to get to that point. During the whole failure process, at what point do you cut your losses? Let's say somebody is just starting off in a certain industry, at what point is enough?

Jeremy:

Well, I think that's their own risk tolerance and that's your own goal. It, it, to be indifferent. So, when I had my digital media, we were doing, you know, physical products, some in supplements, other goods and services, but it was actual physical product, not a digital product. I would put $25,000 into it. $25,000 was basically $5,000 for initial batch, you know, enough for like a thousand or something samples for units. And then it was $20,000 as fast as I could spend it on ads which typically took with the ramp. Cause you can't just, you can waste lot money, you just trying to overspend. So, we would do that...

Todd Cherches, CEO & Cofounder of BigBlueGumball

Todd Cherches is the CEO and cofounder of BigBlueGumball, a NYC-based management consulting firm specializing in leadership development and executive coaching. He is a member of Marshall Goldsmith's "MG 100 Coaches," a three-time award-winning adjunct professor of leadership at NYU, a lecturer on leadership at Columbia University, a TEDx speaker, and the author of the groundbreaking book, "VisuaLeadership: Leveraging the Power of Visual Thinking in Leadership and in Life" (Post Hill Press/Simon & Schuster, 2020). Todd was nominated as a finalist for the 2021 Thinkers50 "Distinguished Achievement Award" in Leadership, and was ranked #35 on the 2021 Thinkers360 list of the "Top 50 Global Thought Leaders and Influencers in the field of Management."

www.toddcherches.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/toddcherches/

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcription : Vision In Word

Todd Cherches is the CEO and co-founder of Big Blue Gumball, a New York city based management consulting firm, specializing in leadership development and executive coaching. He's also the author of the groundbreaking book, visual leadership leveraging the power of visual thinking in leadership and in life. Welcome Todd,

Todd:

Thank you so much Marlana. Great to be here with you.

Marlana:

So, I know why I think that visuals are so important. Why do you believe that they're so powerful?

Todd:

I mean, a lot of reasons, the main one is that we all need to get others to see what we're saying. That's the biggest challenge, whether it's an email, a Ted talk, a conversation, a text, we're trying to get an idea or a thought out of our head into someone else's head. One of the best ways to do that is to think, and to communicate visually. So, whether that's through photographs as you do, it's so amazingly well or through drawing or through using props, whatever it is, or even visual language using metaphor and storytelling. So those are all the different ways that I help to teach and coach people to think and communicate more visually.

Marlana:

I know you use the term visual thinking, what does that mean?

Todd:

There are different definitions, but to me it's about thinking and communicating in pictures as opposed to words or numbers. So often the business world we're talking about ideas, financial statements or whatever, but it really is about painting a picture with words. That's why they're saying a picture's worth a thousand of them, is around in all cultures. And it's almost like the equivalent of Word documents, Excel spreadsheets, and PowerPoint slides. That's the equivalent of that. So, we produce words in Word documents, we produce numbers on Excel spreadsheets, and then we produce slides that help us communicate more visually if it's done well. Some of the people are still doing the bullet points and reading off the screen kind of thing, which is not doing it well, but yeah, the bottom line is really about getting ideas out there into the world so that other people can understand them.

I talk about three things in my Ted talk, ACR, attention, comprehension, and retention. When use visual imagery or visual language, it captures people's attention. It gets them to focus because they're looking at something. So, in today's world of interruptions, distractions, and information overload, that's one of the biggest challenges just to reign people in and get them to focus comprehension. It enhances our understanding and retention. It increases our recall our memory. And if we can remember things, we're more likely to use and apply them. So those are the main, some of the science behind why visuals are so impactful and just as humans, we're just wired visually. That's just who we are and how our brains were.

Marlana:

It was interesting because I did watch your Ted talk and you reinforced an idea that I'd heard once upon a time that it doesn't matter what language we speak because images, pictures, and things like that transcend all languages. Yeah. But tell us a little bit about how you came to that discovery.

Todd:

Sure. Well, a lot of people think because I'm an executive coach and I do imagine leadership chain consulting that I have a business background, but I actually have an English literature background with a concentration in Shakespeare and poetry. And if you think about literature and poetry, it is about storytelling. It's about metaphor. It's about language, .? So, that's in my roots, long, a big reader going back a long time. And then my first part of my career was working in, advertising and then media and entertainment and theme parks. So advertising is a visually based business. Even if you're doing radio ads, you still need to communicate visually. and working in the movie industry, the TV industry, and then the theme park business. Again, it's all about storytelling, .? I know that's a big part of your work is visual storytelling.

It's every story there are villains victims and heroes. There's an obstacle, there's a, there's some kind of quest or goal. There's obstacles, barriers or challenges that stand in your way. There's a beginning, middle and end. There's some kind of a resolution at some point. we always talk about how you are the hero of your own life story. So, there's all kinds of metaphors that come out of the, the world of entertainment and media. and that's a big part of my coaching is getting people to think of themselves as the hero of their life story. And then now what, what do you do with that? .? How do you create a happy ending to your story through, you know, through the coaching and the training? So that was just a few of the concepts behind. but it's rooted in my background in literature and in the entertainment and media industry.

Marlana:

What about the people that come to you and say, yes, but I'm not a creative and I'm not a visual person?

Todd:

Well, one thing I say is that we're all visual in different ways. There's something called VA visual, auditory reading and writing and kinesthetic. At one point they were identified as learning styles as if you're a visual person, or you're an auditory person, but the reality is they're just different sensory modalities for taking in and processing information. So, we're all visual, we're all auditory at different times. It really is about forming imagery in our mind. I was asked this the other day. What about for people who are blind or side impaired? In some way you could still use metaphor, you could still use visual language. You could still paint a picture with words. It doesn't apply only to site.

It applies mainly to the way we think and visualize things. and when you talk about leadership, one of the biggest words that comes to mind is vision, .? We talk about visionary leaders or having a leadership vision. And what does that mean? It's about seeing picturing in your mind's eye, which is a term coined by Shakespeare. And I know that cause I was an English literature and Shakespeare major. He said that in Hamlet, when you saw the ghost of his father, he didn't know whether it was an apparition or a figment of his imagination. I see my father in my mind's eye. How do you get an image from your mind's eye into someone else's, that's one of the biggest challenges that we all face. So, all of these things tie together, but those are some of the reasons why it's so, so, embedded in the way I think and the way I work and, and now how I apply it to my training, coaching, and teaching.

Marlana:

So, what are some of the most effective ways you have seen this manifest?

Todd:

Well, I break it down to four categories. One is using visual imagery and or drawing category. Two is using mental models and or frameworks. Category three is using metaphor and analogy. And category four is using storytelling with bonus points for humor, if and when appropriate. So those are the four buckets and they're not mutually exclusive in silos. When used in combination, they're even more powerful.

You can have a metaphor and then tell a story about it. Or you can have a mental model that is drawn out by hand, or you can describe it, you know, verbally, .? So, the way my clients use this, or I use this in my teaching, is it transcends language barriers, cultural barriers. like if I say to you, we need to plant the seed for a new idea.

We need to get to the root of the problem. We need to branch out a new direction. We need to see which ideas bear fruit and the sky's the limit. I just use five or six different analogies of metaphors that use nature or a tree as the foundation. So, when you use imagery like that, it helps people to picture what you're saying. It creates clarity, just as a good metaphor can create clarity. A poorly shows, a metaphor can actually do the opposite and create confusion and chaos.

I use a lot of baseball analogies, so I'm a big baseball fan, Mets and Yankees. but if I'm talking to a 25-year-old student of mine from China, she doesn't know anything about baseball, most likely. So, something with theater, dance, nature, or something that from her culture will resonate more than using metaphor, analogy or story that is meaningful to me. So, it's always starting with, who's your audience, what's your purpose? And what's gonna resonate with this person. If we are aware of this, we could be more strategic and more intentional, intentional, because we don't even realize how often we use metaphors or tell stories. but it's a big part of once you're aware of it, then you could be even better at it.

Marlana:

Agreed! Go back to those four buckets and break those down for us a little bit.

Todd:

Sure, the first one is using visual imagery. Even though we're on video, some people may listen to the audio podcast. I may say something's the tip of the iceberg, .? So, you picture in your mind an iceberg and from iceberg image that about 10% is above the surface and the other 98 or 90% is below the surface. So, the iceberg represents as a metaphor. It's both a visual image and a metaphor, what we see or know versus what we don't. And we always know there's more that we don't. So, when we first meet someone, that's just the tip of the iceberg. If you start watching a movie, the first five or 10 minutes of it's just the tip of the iceberg. So again, it always reminds us that there's more coming and then it's up to us to dive beneath the surface, to uncover what else is down there.

Iceberg can also think about Titanic can represent danger ahead, .? What are the dangers lurking underneath that we need to be aware of? . So just from that one image, you can have a whole conversation around how can use the iceberg as a metaphor, so that's, that's one category is using imagery. I just did a workshop for the Harvard Institute of coaching a couple of days ago on visual coaching and how coaches can use visual techniques, like the ones I'm talking about in their coaching practices. So, one exercise I do is, I have a sheet of emoji faces, they may say to a client which emoji face represents how you're feeling today. So, they may not say, or I'm confused, or I'm stressed or I'm tired or I'm happy, but they'll look at the imagery and it kind of forces you to reflect and then say, all this is the face that best represents me.

And they'll say, well, tell me what's the story behind it. So, we could use imagery as a catalyst for conversations in a way that just asking you a question verbally and literally may not list the response. That's just one example of category one and there's mind maps and there's storyboards, which are visual, but they're also in category two, which is using mental models and frameworks. So, you can use post-its or index cards or sketch something out as a mind map or a storyboard, a company's organizational chart as a visual representation of the hierarchy and reporting structure. They're all around us. One of the things I always say is we want thinking outside the box has become a cliche, but you can't think outside the box unless you have something inside the box. So having boxes and frameworks will help us to simplify the complexity of the world, put them into boxes or categories so we could see them more clearly.

And then we see solutions that maybe we hadn't thought about before. So, I'll stop there for a second, but that's category one, visual imagery and category two models and frameworks.

Marlana:

Well ,go ahead. Keep going.

Todd:

There's two more. I just wanted to pause, see if you have any thoughts or questions. Category three is using metaphors analogy. just like the tip of the iceberg and just like the one with the tree, planting the seed, cetera. when you use metaphorical language, it helps to make the abstract concrete, the unfamiliar ,familiar, the invisible, visible. if you say, my love is like a red rose, that's newly sprung in June. But metaphors are not just for songwriters and poets, it really is for all of us to say, oh, baseball, that idea came out of left field, or you had a grand slam, or you really struck out on that presentation.

We do that all the time. I think the key is finding metaphors that resonate with your audience. I used the analogy, (we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.) And I had a visual image of the Brooklyn bridge, because I'm from New York, but I did the same workshop with a group in San Francisco via zoom. I used the golden gate bridge instead and I did it once through the group in London. I used the tower bridge. When use a metaphor or an image that resonates with your audience, people think, oh, this person gets me. So, I am saying, meet people, not where you live, but where they live or somewhere in the middle. In fact, speaking of bridges, I have a textbook in college called Bridges, not walls and words can build bridges between people to connect them or put-up walls between people to divide them.

So, in terms of what you're saying, what you're showing, are you connecting or dividing people through your words and your images. The last category storytelling, which could be visual through pictures and imagery or could be verbal. But again, as I said, stories take people on a journey . You have a beginning, middle, and end. Aristotle said that couple of thousand years ago. but stories are human, they're relatable, they're emotional, they're memorable. So, if I'm coaching a manager, I might say, instead of saying to your employee, do these 10 things and don't do these 10 things. You may say when I had your job, let me tell you about the worst mistake I ever made and what happened and why I say why I have these JS and don'ts that person's gonna be on their edge of their seat.

They wanna hear that story, .? So, stories stay with us and they're just more impactful than there's facts, figures, and feelings. Facts and figures are the rationale, that's the evidence, the feelings is what you wanna capture through the emotion of your storytelling. And again, when you use humor, it lightens the mood. But people are more receptive and more innovative when they feel good and when they're engaged, but it's gotta be relevant and it's got to be appropriate for a situation. So anyway, those are the four categories, and my whole book, visual leadership is a break it down into examples for those four categories. But in a nutshell, which is a metaphor, those are just a few examples,

Marlana:

And it's interesting that you say all that because I know most people when they invest in someone or something, make a purchase, or...

Jeff Lovell | Jeff Lovell Coaching | Founder of The Great Life Project

Jeff Lovell is an expert guide and coach for authentic living. He created The Great Life Project to help successful creative founders and executives who are great at work be great at life. Together they create new ways to stop playing it safe and wondering what if, and instead start living a life you love, with people you love, while accomplishing your most important work.

https://jefflovell.coach

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-lovell-coach/

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcription : Vision In Word

Marlana

Jeff Lovell is an expert guide and coach for authentic living. He created the great life project to help successful creative founders and executives who are great at work be great at life. Welcome, Jeff.

Jeff

Thanks for having me. It's great to be with you.

Marlana

So, we're gonna have a conversation today about authentic purpose. So first, let me start by asking you, because the word authentic is thrown around by a lot of people. What does it mean to you?

Jeff

That's a great question. I appreciate you clarifying that. I think something that's authentic is true all the way through, like, I have an authentic looking desk, that's not made of real wood. So there, it lacks the integrity all the way through, you peel under a layer, and you pretty quickly find out it's not the real thing. And so authentic purpose is it comes from the core of who you are. And it's born out of your identity, and a deeper sense of who you are and what your life is about, rather than just some of these more surface level things.

Marlana

So then how do we find ours?

Jeff

That is the question, isn't it? And I think people often wish there were a quick answer to that question. I think part of my work is helping people slow down and find a better answer to that question. And one of the places I often start with people is rather than just diving into, well, tell me what is my authentic purpose? Let's slow down and talk about all the kinds of inauthentic purpose that oftentimes is a part of our life.

For a number of people, like for me, part of that journey was a coach that I was working with, at that point in time asking me this question, what if the thing you're searching for that next mountain you need to climb isn't out there somewhere, but what if it's actually in here, what if the best work you need to do is something that's happening inside of you. So, that kind of set me on this journey of unpacking these inauthentic versions of life and purpose and meaning that I think most of us encounter them from time to time.

It's not that we're doing something bad when we, we experienced them, it's just that we shouldn't settle for them. I think of things like, you know, there's all these other me's that are out there, there's the me that I wish I was. I wish I was taller and better, or basketball, or at least middle school just wished I was taller and better at basketball, you know, or there's the me that I think other people want me to be, whether that's my boss, or my family, or friends, or even just kind of that society or this. Depending on your career of choice, there's kind of versions of you that you think you're supposed to be to succeed. I don't know, there's all kinds of those.

I think one of the big ones that people tend to fall for is that there's the me that people will pay me to be right, or the me that has succeeded. And so sometimes those things, send us down these other roads that we keep going down, and because they keep paying us and it feels successful. But I don't know if you've ever had this experience. I've woke up one day in my 30s and said, Oh, I'm successful, but I don't want to do this.

Marlana

How many of us do you think, seek that purpose and that validation outwardly, as opposed to looking inwardly for it?

Jeff

I think that is the most common starting place, as we say, when we're searching for purpose, a lot of people are searching for purpose. And that isn't always the words we put on it. Sometimes it's just that laying awake at 2am, saying, There's got to be more to life than this, or what am I doing with my life, or it just feels like something's missing. But I would kind of put the word searching for purpose on that. And I think a lot of people are searching for it. We search for it and all these outward places, it's from our culture, from our community, from our family. Sometimes our success tells us what feels like purpose. Sometimes our failures tell us something and we kind of live our life chasing after these things. I think some of the most important work we can do.

To answer your question more specifically, I want to help people make a mindset shift from being a searcher of purpose into being a bringer of purpose. Like we don't just experience purpose from our work, we actually bring purpose to our work. We don't just get purpose from our family, in our relationships, we can bring purpose to it. I think that is a key mindset that unlocks a lot of things for people.

Marlana

So, how do we get to that point?

Jeff

The slower it's a courageous journey. At least for me, I would say it took courage it took slowing down. It takes willingness to say maybe what I have right now isn't the version I want it to be, which is scary. And I think it's okay to do the scary thing. And sometimes that's why we need coaches. That's why we need a good friend or others to come alongside us to not have to go on those journeys alone. I think named having the courage to name the other ways that I've sought that purpose. Again, people really want to quickly jump to how do I find it where it's the thing.

There's an unlearning process before you can learn. So, let's unlearn what you've been taught about purpose, about meaning. A lot of my clients work in branding, design, marketing and advertising, which is about winning the awards. It's about climbing the ladder, and it's about getting your name in the articles and all that, that's great. There's nothing wrong with those things. But subliminally a lot of us, it's pretty common, that starts to feel really good. Except for that it's kind of the shiny candy shell.

It's the thing that's pretty on the outside, and everybody looks at it, and it's glossy and happy. But it's kind of a melting mess in the middle. So, I think a lot of people find that they get down this road and start to ask themselves, well, is that really my purpose? Is it just to keep climbing the ladder? Or is there something else that I'm missing?

Marlana

So, are there questions that we should be asking ourselves along the way to see whether we're on the right path or not?

Jeff

Of course! I don't know that there's a one size fits all. One of the true things is that there's some good been great, some great research in the last 20 years, brawny where wrote about it, Daniel Pink is writing a lot about regrets. These days, there was a big Harvard grant study where people are talking about regrets. And one of the number one regret that comes up over and over again for people is that when they get to the end of their life, they wish they had had the courage to live a life that was true to themselves. So, I think there's a lot of kinds of questions that can emerge out of that.

If you play the movie of your life forward, kind of fast forward, what track you're on, like, a great question is, where does that story end, what's the next chapter of that story? And is that this chapter, you want to be living? I think a lot of people right now are scratching their heads about the next chapter.

We've kind of come out of the season in this crazy couple of years, where people have done a lot of thinking about what life wants, what, what matters most to them in life, and what they want their next season to be life. So, I think the first question is, is this story going the direction I want it to be? Am I proud of living this story? Is this the story I want to look back on until?

Marlana

Interesting! So, let's say we decide that this isn't the story that I want to tell, and we want to shift gears. How do we start to do that?

Jeff

That's great! So, where does authentic purpose actually come from? After we've unlearned some of those things, I'm going to name that. Maybe I've been a success at work but I'm not so much a success at home, or I'm great in the community around me but the people that know me best don't get the best version of me. So, that's where we start. Is the question they want to ask, because again, what's the quickest way? What's the road, it's gonna get me there the fastest. And so, if I change my job, if I make the move, if I changed the relationship, if I only got married, or if I only ended the marriage, or, if I got another course, took another degree, all these activities that are these external things.

I think people think those are going to open the doors that they're looking for. And so, a lot of a common mistake, I think that people make in trying to force their way into purpose is to start changing activities. And the problem with changing activities is those are all asking the wrong question. They're answering the question what do I do? And I think a better approach to actually unlocking real authentic purpose because, again, those just cover the surface. That's the fake desk, the laminate desk, but a better approach is rather than changing activity, is to clarify identity. That's where we slow down and say, okay, you know, tell me about your story. Let's unpack those chapters, because most of my clients are people in their late 30s or early 50s, where they've got some life experience now, and usually that life experiences include some things that they're not quick to talk about. There's some pain. There's some lessons learned the hard way. There are some were probably regrets and we kind of want to gloss over those, but I think that that's where it's really incred More powerful things come from where purpose emerges because your pain can be redeemed. Oftentimes, the things that have been most painful to us are places where we can make the biggest difference in the world.

I have a friend who his house burned down when he was nine years old. And it sent them through some painful things and some really difficult things. But he ended up in a career that is a disaster relief. I mean, there's this deeply embedded thing in him out of that painful moment, but he found there were people that were really helpful to him and his family and that moment, and it just kind of shaped who he's always been. I think that's true for most of us, is that even those painful hard parts of our story are if we are willing to dig into them and unpack them, and I'm not a therapist. And it's not therapy work. But I think that there's something true about our pain and the hardships that we've been through that are an ingredient in our purpose.

Marlana

Do you think we do ourselves a disservice by glossing over those moments in our lives?

Jeff

I'm sure the simple answer is yeah. And I think those moments are too important and too formative two, that gloss over. And I know they're not the things that make it to our Instagram reels or LinkedIn profiles, except for on Mental Health Awareness Week when everybody's got those two. I don't mean this, say that in a cliche kind of way. I just think, when we lead with everybody's experienced pain, and so when we lead with that, when we put that out there, I think it makes us more human.

I think purpose, if it's authentic, is actually attached to our most human parts, that's the deeper inside. I mean, it's one thing to talk about purpose, I'm going to change the world and help feed all the hungry people and find world peace and all, that's amazing. But that's also a kind of a glossy version of it, versus those painful things that happened to me or sending me on a journey. And so, our purpose emerges from our story, not just our pain, I think also emerges from our superpowers and our genius. And you have this unique thing about you, all of us do that, only you can do. And so, helping people own that and not, again, I work with a lot of branding and design people. So, there's kind of this sense of what it takes to be brilliant in that world. But the best, the people who are the most brilliant aren't doing it like everybody else. So that's the part two is like, unlocking your sense of passion and your unique genius and the things that only you can do like for Marlana, but there's a version of Marlana from middle school that was doing what you're doing now. Like, it's always been you. And there's that version of us, that's always been us. And that's what I want to help people uncover, unpack and kind of set free.

Marlana

Do you think that if we look back on the story of our life, we will see what the common threads are?

Jeff

I hope so. And I think that that's some of the most important work we can do. And part of the great life project, kind of a chapter in the great life project is unpacking your story and looking for those threads and the high points, the low points. But I think some of that, it's one thing to kind of catalog the events. But it's another thing to start to give them meaning. So, we begin to say, Okay, let's just, for example, take the first decade of your life, and let's put a chapter title on that. And then the second decade, what's the Chapter Therefore, for example, one of my friends, or one of my clients, who became a friend, I love it when clients become friends. It's another thing when friends become clients, but it's better when clients become friends.

She had a really difficult childhood. And so, she named the first chapter of her story broken. But then she named the second chapter of her life brave. And then the third chapter is becoming, and this fourth chapter is beauty and for her, what that means is that when we see where those first few chapters have brought us, we get to name the next chapter. And I think that's the really powerful thing in our story, is that there's the events, sure. And then we give them meaning, and then we get any good story, we can start to see where it's going like that make your life a predictable movie.

It's also...

My name is Anshar Seraphim and I teach High-Stakes Negotiation, Persuasive Psychology, Neuromarketing, Interpersonal Dynamics, and Communication. My past clients include celebrities from the entertainment industry in Nevada and abroad, C-Suites, corporations, and individuals who are looking to hone their negotiation skills and learn how the power of psychology, neuroscience, and interpersonal dynamics can help change the face of the way they do business.

Anshar Seraphim can teach you not only how to close the sale, but to build trust, rapport, and make one-time customers into lifetime clients. He has trained sales associates and managers in bridal and engagement ring sales for Kay Jewelers and Jared the Galleria of Jewelry and has two decades of experience in sales and communication.

After helping to break records for fundraising for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital for Signet, the company that owns Kay Jewelers, he was invited by his district manager to do sales and negotiation training for all the stores in his immediate region, resulting in the training of hundreds of jewelry store associates and managers in the Pacific Northwest.

Interestingly, he has also worked in the legal brothel industry, training sex workers on how to apply psychological principles to their negotiations for full-service sex work. His negotiation and communication training was responsible for increasing the gross sales of the top booking legal sex workers in the United States by over 300%, a success so significant he was invited to organize and implement training for multiple brothel properties in Nevada.

Anshar didn't get his start in sales like most people do. When joining the US Navy, enlisting for their Cryptography program, he found out that he had undiagnosed autism that should have disqualified him for service after already becoming a sailor. With a heavy heart, he left his military career to learn more about his Autism diagnosis and how to overcome and cope with the challenges presented by it.

He went into information technology and worked at his local college, developing his communication skills and working one on one with college students and faculty in their disability services program. He tutored every subject, from calculus to electrical engineering to astronomy to organic chemistry, and used his systems knowledge to not only help those in academia but also work on his own personal development in his weakest area, dealing with people.

Anshar now does customized negotiation training as a consultant, speaks on emotional dynamics, and advocates for the benefits that neurodiverse hiring can bring to the world of business.

https://www.facebook.com/anshar.seraphim

[email protected]

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcription : Vision In Word

Marlana

Anshar Seraphim teaches high stakes negotiation, persuasive psychology, neuro marketing, interpersonal dynamics, and communication. He can teach you not only how to close a sale, but to build trust rapport and make one-time customers into lifetime clients. So, if you're looking to hone your negotiation skills and learn how the power of psychology, neuroscience and interpersonal dynamics can help change the pace of the way you do business, this is the man you need. Welcome Anshar.

Anshar

Hi, how are you?

Marlana

I'm doing well. So, tell me, why is it so helpful to know our personality type?

Anshar

Well, you have a timeline. Basically, it's kind of like a spectrum. Some people argue that sexuality is on a spectrum, or the introversion and extraversion are on a spectrum, there are actually a few different elements of personality spectrum. And these are identified by Carl a long time ago. And it's not just introversion and extraversion. But it's also by intuition and sensing. So, do you process things, you know, with internal systems in your brain? Or are you focused on observing your environment? And then you're thinking and feeling which, I think most people have a grasp of how those can kind of go on the spectrum? And then the last receiving a judge? Which means do you take different things and compare them to one another? Or are you interested in looking at things in their own context.

These are biases that in psychology, make the argument that almost up to 75% of personality can be genetic. So, what you're really doing is you're trying to identify the nature and nurture of your own psychology, the way that you evaluate things, you know, you may function better with metaphors, you may function better with narratives, you may function better with emotional or social proof. We're all convinced by different things. And one of the fundamental problems, because we have a kind of a default in our society of trying to treat other people the way that you want to be treated. And that's a great ethos. But it really only works when we're dealing with an absolute stranger. And we're just trying to make sure that we're considered of them will be treated the best way possible. So, we try to project our own value system on them. But when you start to get into psychology, you'll start to understand that that's not the reality.

The reality is that we all learn a different way, we all express ourselves a different way, we all use different processes in our judge in a different way. So, understanding your own cognitive biases from your personality, how you best communicate, can help you identified the kinds of people that you're going to have difficulty reaching with your default communication style. For example, your personality types are really good at conveying things to metaphor, but you come across another person who doesn't use metaphor at all, like you'll actually throw them off.

One of the things we'll move into, like training sales, because I've been doing sales for about two decades now is, you know, when someone gets first started in sales, the first-year mark of getting successful of sales is learning should be learning toolbox phrases, learning about your product or service, being able to answer the most common questions, we usually do that in your own voice. But when you move past that, and you already know what to say, then you can focus on how to say it. And that's where things get interesting, because when you start to understand the emotional and cognitive motivations, that go kind of behavior, what actually drives people to action, what creates a response to the amygdala, what creates memory resonance, what creates dopamine pathways, you start to understand that you can't use the same strategy with everyone the same technique that you can use to close one person will actually walk another.

So, when you start to move on to more advanced sets, more advanced negotiation, or advanced psychology, you start to identify how not only your own biases affect the conversation, but you'll also start to recognize patterns. You know, personality science and dynamics can get fairly complicated. But one of the interesting things about running a business or doing marketing or branding or going through a sales process, is you're not concerning yourself with all of psychology. What you're really trying to do is look at the packet stand to see your product, your service and what is the way that most people are going to react to that. And that's the only part of psychology that you need to worry about at first, which is How are people going to see your brand? Your message, your percentage? What are the most common reactions to that? What do those different manifestations of reaction look like? And then what information can you get from that.

When we work in sales, even if it's like a storefront or fueling emails are talking to clients, you'll start to hear a lot of the same kinds of responses to the information that we have to offer. And then you'll understand that different types of people with different perspectives and different needs are going to respond to your product or service in that particular way. And then you can start to mentally plan ahead and know what to do when that reaction happens. And I think all of that starts with your own personal inventory of understanding your own personality, because that's going to be conveyed in your image in your craft as well.

Marlana

Okay, I know my personality type. So, how do I lean into that, to grow my personal brand?

Anshar

Just to take a step back, for stretching your viewers, we were just talking about this, those particular dynamics, that those are the soft, dark types. And so that was developed in much the same way, you know, you go back, decommission either 1850s in Denmark, or something like that, you had people who were statisticians, and census takers, who were interested in things about bodies. And so, they learn to apply the Body Mass Effects, and you can ask the doctor getting started to look closer at that, it's not necessarily a good indicator of health, it just kind of gives you an idea. Well, personality science is the same. You know, when Carl Jung first talked about it, he identified 16 different personality types. Introversion, extroversion, intuitive, all that, then he also made the earmark of saying we have an unconscious personality type, then we have a conscious personality type. And what that means is that you have the ability, depending on the situation that you're at, to create your marks and changes to your personality. And a lot of us do it without thinking about it.

You know, if you're an introvert person, you take a public speaking class, or maybe you're not super fantastically sales or, numbers and concrete ideas and signals to the seller association class, you're in the process of creating a new personality that you're going to use in that specific situation. And you'll see it in the affectations of person, you have a few if a person goes up for public speaking, let's say they're an introvert, you're going to see them use completely different gesticulations, different facial expressions, different idioms. And so, you have control over your own personality, and the best way to showcase that, and you'll be able to identify your strengths and weaknesses in that way. And so, part of building your own plan is building the personality of that brand.

I think that when we go through the process of doing that, a lot of us make the mistake of selling ourselves, we think that that's the objective, you know, that we want to find all the meat and wonderful things about ourselves, transmit that to someone else. But there's a critical error. And that's that first person always have to think about is who we're talking to, we have to create an avatar of the different kinds of people who are going to be interested or information, what their common pain points, trends, objections, hopes, fears, desires are, and then we have to be able to tarp those things to be able to reach those people. And when we take our personal inventory, that's when we identify your strengths, because we want to be able to talk to those specific people to be able to impress upon them, the importance of your good or service. And that's where we're being selected as important.

I think a good metaphor is like metaphors is Stephanie Meyer, that when she wrote Twilight, she really thought about her target audience. You know, she was writing a vampire romance novel for teenage girls. So, she had to think to herself, okay, so I have to use language that successful teenagers, I need to use imagery and successful the teenagers. But she also did something really smart. When she started talking about Bella character. She was very, very devoid of specific details, even though she was speaking with the first person. And that's so that everyone was looking at that story and reading it, have you been putting themselves into that role? And that's one of the reasons that the book was so successful. So, I think it's about getting into your prospects hat and understanding what it is that's important to them. Then identifying that because sometimes you'll serve vastly different groups of people. but never want to work.

When I work with entrepreneurs or C suites, they have to be able to not only communicate with clients from very diverse people, everything from highly educated people that they can go into great detail with to people that they have to get incremental bias. And you have to identify, you know, what camp do the people that you are most trying to reach? What camp do they fall, and then you have to create a communication strategy based off of anytime that you create a communication strategy you have to think about in our assets, weaknesses. And I think that starts with personal stories. So, talking about the union archetype, we use the Myers Briggs for that. Myers Briggs weren't psychologists themselves, they examined research and tried to come up with an easy, systematic way to map that. And it's not a pigeonhole, once you identify what your strengths and weaknesses are, you can capitalize on those to create a public persona, to be able to work on your weaknesses, to be able to better reach your target audience. And I think that's a key part of developing your own brand, because it's what starts the narrative of the sale and negotiation, or the conversation about leadership.

Marlana

So, I did take the test, and I came up as an INFJ. I guess that I can be different things in different situations. Does that INFJ stay at the core all the time, or?

Anshar

Sure, I'll discuss that. You know, what's interesting about INFJ is it's actually the rarest personality type. It's kind of like being Sherlock Holmes, but with emotions and feelings. And what's interesting is your average INFJ is so natural process of empathy that they don't even realize that they're doing. And was the reason you have to be aware of it is that if you get an T type, it's someone's very concrete in logic, itself, I'm an INTJ. It's more difficult for me to connect motional states and a person who doesn't know you very well, when you start to turn that empathy a lot, they can feel screwed by that. And so, you have to be able to watch, know your reaction. But once you have that baseline, you know, you know that you're a highly intuitive, Empath, essentially, then you start to learn some things about yourself.

For example, as an INFJ, if you're really careful about things that are current in your environment, you know, infJs people love to look at themselves in the mirror and talk themselves into something where have a motivational poster on the wall. You know, they can't listen to the wrong song on the radio, because it'll put it back in the day. You have to take a little bit more careless imperative. And I think the stark difference between an INTJ and INFJ because we are too introverted types of blog content. But the fact that you haven't focused on emotions that focus on the concrete means that there are specific situations where we're going to have a communication disconnect. I think that's exciting.

The only way that we're relevant is what we find MFI the gaps that we have the situations that we don't accelerate it. And we want to put ourselves in situations as much as we can live with those favorable circumstances that we can't. I think we've all had that experience in sales, where you have a light, it's almost like a light comes down. Everything is easy, we just sell our product or service that every item, everything possibly get. And when you're done, you're celebrating, but at the same time, you're asking yourself, why can't all sales be like that? And 20 years of experience for me is to find the answer to that question. And the answer is that when people are more IQ, they give you imaginary credit, when you sit down and you have a simple back world or a similar experience, we start to get closer to one another in our peer groups, it affects us sociologically. And if you can understand as an INFJ, how to focus on different parts of your personality so that you can relate to people, especially the people that are hardest for you to relate to. And you'll be able to start those conversations on the right foot, put your skills to the best use, and then whatever it is that you can work on, that is that conscious personality.

So, whether it's you are focusing on being comfortable speaking in front of 100 people are being comfortable dealing with a really like intense, fact-based person who's not going to be emotionally swayed events, they have cognitive dissonance that they have to get over. That's really important. But I think the thing that holds people back from success is their own objections, their uncommon systems, and you have to discover and be a detective and figure out what kinds of beliefs you have as far as your This centuries concern whether or not those beliefs are actually, in fact, let's test them. And which of them are standing in the way in which political and law strikes. So that's why I tell people to take their own personality test. And there's lots of different ones out .

I have a preference to the Union one just because it's so widespread so that this that it's very easy to identify with communication styles with different type combinations for client. But there are a number of other different types of personalities systems out there, I think the primary takeaway is understanding that your personality is, frankly, wanted to or not, and that you have to figure out whether or not that personality stance is adamant to the people that you're trying to reach? And if it does, what do you need to work on change, alter, or present differently in order to be able to not exclude those people?

Marlana

Oh, interesting! So, let's say I meet someone, if it's all fine and good that we know our own personality type, how do we identify in someone else, how they need information communicated to them?

Anshar

Well, you know, people give you all kinds of clues. And one of them is that we all operate off of that fundamental problem of trying to treat other people like the way that we want to be treated, you see in relationships too, you know, I might be that person who I feel super love relationship when I come home, and the kitchen is spotless, you know, because it means that someone put some real effort into something matters in my space or...

Jones Loflin

HOPE Inc

Business Tagline: Helping others make the best choices with their time so they can thrive!

Jones Loflin has made it his life's work to deliver powerful ideas and practical solutions to help people make the best choices with their time.

Jones' innovative solutions have attracted the attention of organizations around the world. His client list includes Federal Express, Wal-Mart, and Choice Hotels as well as the United States military and a number of international companies.

Jones is an accomplished author and coach. His books include Always Growing, Juggling Elephants, Getting The Blue Ribbon, and Getting to It.

www.jonesloflin.com

https://jonesloflin.com/juggling-elephants

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio: Ariza Music Productions

Transcription : Vision In Word

Marlana

Jones Loflin has made it his life's work to deliver powerful ideas and practical solutions to as his tagline reads help others make the best choices with their time so they can thrive, which has attracted clients such as FedEx, Walmart, and the US military. Welcome Jones.

Jones

Oh, pleasure to be here with you, Marlana. Thanks for the opportunity to talk about a subject near and dear to my heart, which is making the best choices with your time.

Marlana

And honestly, sometimes a subject that I can be a hot mess with. So why do you think we struggle with time management?

Jones

Well, first of all, let me say this, I don't have it all figured out. If I tell a lot of people that when I do have it all figured out, I'll be dead, and it won't matter. You know because it is such a difficult topic. I think one of the things that happens for many people is it's just this whole term time management. You know, we really don't manage time, as Charlie Gilkey says, you know, we manage schedules, we manage energy, we manage choices, time can only be accounted for. It's only in the rearview mirror can we look back and go, Oh, yeah, that was not a good choice, which led to taking too much time with this and those kinds of things? And answer to your question, the reason I think we struggle is because we have so many competing demands on our time and competing expectations, you know, what we expect of ourselves, what our boss expects of us, what our family expects of us. And so sometimes it's hard to cut through the clutter, and figure out what is the best choice for me to make in this moment, and then you add in, you know, poor energy levels, so we don't have the mental energy to make the best decisions or to hold on to those healthy boundaries, that I think it's just a cadre of reasons that bring us to the point of we as not making the best choices with your time.

Marlana

You know, it's interesting because I believe that people don't seem to understand that everything comes at a cost. The cost does not necessarily have to be monetary, but if we say yes to something, then we're saying no to something else, because we only have a limited amount of time. So even if we say yes to something that we want to do or saying no to maybe another choice that we could have made or relaxing or anything, there's always a give and take here. That being the case, how do we make better choices?

Jones

I think it starts with stopping. And I know that sounds strange, but I make the comment sometimes that I think we're so busy checking boxes, we haven't stopped to ask ourselves, are these the right boxes to check? And so, I think it starts with stopping and giving yourself some space to say, what is important to me and to even step back? What are my values? What do I value? What's my purpose? I mean, I think it really starts with getting to that deeper level, and saying, what is it I want from my life, from my work, from the choices that I'm going to make this month, this week, today, and really kind of beginning to take control, if you will, of your time resources little bit more. One of the books that I have coauthored called Juggling Elephants and a Talk About Managing Your Working Life Like It's A Circus. And in the book, we talk about being the ringmaster of your circus and I think that's really where the second part is, is okay, this is my purpose. This is what I value now, what am I in control of as it relates to making choices? So, I think that's where it starts is stopping and asking yourself, what is important to you? And then aligning or making choices based on what is important instead of how I feel at the moment or what someone else expects of me.

Marlana

Does the end goal come into play at all when making our choices to like, let's say if I know that tomorrow I want this or in a week I want that, making those choices with our time that will get us closer to the final goal?

Jones

Sure, right. The great point and I think it was first said so well in Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. One of the principles of habits is begin with the end in mind. You know, what's the outcome you want? It's interesting in some of my keynotes when I talk to people, and I'll ask them that question, I'll say, What do you want from, what do you want to have by the end of the day, or by the end of the week? What are the outcomes you want? And it's interesting to see people kind of really have to really think about that, I'd like to feel fulfilled, or I'd like to be happy about the work that I got done, you know, during the week, okay, what does that look like?

Let's make that real, because I think that's the other thing that happens, or one of the other things that happens when we start talking about time management, is we forget to make it very tactical to make it real. I find myself saying so often the people who tell Yeah, I just want a better life, right? I just want to, you know, improve. Okay, what does that look like? Because once we know what it looks like, then we can begin to figure out how to create that picture. And how to create that image, you know, all about image. I mean, it's your expertise. How do you create that image? What do you change? What do you adjust to get to that outcome that you want?

Marlana

You know, and it's interesting too, because a gentleman that I spoke with at one point, he said, we also have to really be specific in the things that we want, because he said, people come and say, oh, I want to make more money. He said, I can take a quarter out of my pocket and hand it to him say, Okay, now you have more money, you need to be more specific. What does that look like to you?

Jones

Oh! I love it. That's beautiful, to me is so important. I had the privilege of working a few years ago with Dr. Spencer Johnson, who wrote the amazing bestseller Who Moved My Cheese. And he talked about when people want to change, they need to have a sensible vision to motivate them. It's got to make sense to them, just like you said, you know, what does more look like and being able to create that image is just critical. And in fact, some of my sessions, I will actually have people write down, okay, if you're successful with becoming a better leader, or if you're successful at becoming a better parent, what are you going to see, hear, smell, touch, and taste? And it's a fun exercise. Because once they stopped, they go, Well, yeah, this is what I would physically see how it happened, this is what I would hear my child or my boss saying, once we get that specific, then it motivates us. And it also gives us a path forward, okay, what's it going to take for your boss to say that to you, and then you can start making better choices. So yeah, idea of an image is extremely important.

Marlana

Okay, so now we have decided on what we want the outcome to be, and we're specific about it. Now, how do we form our plan?

Jones

Sure, absolutely! The next step is that you have to look at your non-discretionary time, you know, what's already taken up in your day. And so, I think that comes in to looking at and looking at what's already blocked out, whether it's meetings, expectations are already on your calendar of where you've got to get certain work done. So, I think you've got to look at your non-discretionary time. And then from there, if you've done a good job with that, then you start to see your discretionary time, you know, what are the holes in my schedule? What are the opportunities? What are the openings that I could focus on some of these high priority tasks, these things that aren't yelling at me, but that I want to work on?

I think once you've got those figured out where that discretionary time is, then then the next step is you've got to decide what the next step is, what's the action that can be taken? You know, for example, let's go back to the better parent example. I was just coaching someone earlier about parenting and using their time well, and if you want to be a better parent, okay, you've got 30 minutes this afternoon, you, and your schedule, how could you use that time to work on being a better parent? And for some, they might say, well, you know, what if in that 30 minute, I took care of these tasks, I can be more present with my child that evening. Fantastic. Some might say, you know, I'm just really struggling with how to work with a strong-willed child. Okay, are there some blogs? Is there a couple videos that you could watch? Is there a friend you could reach out to who you know he's got a strong-willed child that you could talk to, but how are you going to use that time that you do have effectively to help get towards that outcome? So, I think those are the next logical steps after you decide on purpose and values and outcomes that you want.

Marlana

Okay, you said that this parent said that, maybe they can use their time to take care of other things, so they have more time to spend with the child. So, in a way, can we create time? Like can we create more time?

Jones

I'm gonna get to your question, I promise. One of my goals in life is to write a book. In fact, I've got on my wall, my vision board kind of over here. I have one, but it's called Time Is Money. And I think in terms of your question, you can't necessarily create time, we just have the same number of minutes, I think you can spend less time on something, which is going to give you more time to invest, if they get in terms of money to invest on something that's going to give you a better outcome. So, I think you're creating the space, you're creating potential outcomes. The time to me is very transactional is if I if I spend, if I use that 30 minute to so now, I'll almost argue my on point with you, but if I could use that 30 minutes wisely, then I probably can have more than 30 minutes that evening. Because if I'm trying to work with my child and get some other tasks done, it might take me an hour to get everything done. Whereas if I focus that 30 minute, I get it all done, and then I've got more space in the evening. So long answer is the reality is I don't think we can create more time, I think we can use time more effectively, which is going to create that space for us to be more present, you know, for whatever that other thing is,

Marlana

which you brought up another interesting thing that a lot of people think is that they can effectively multitask. Go ahead.

Jones

weekend saw this right now Marlana. Okay, this is the group participation part of this podcast, okay, so your listeners can participate, you're gonna participate, you're going to prove my point, here's what I want you to do. And you may have to slide back on your screen a little bit. So, you don't post your camera. But I want you to take one hand at my left, right, and I want you to stick it out in front of you. And I want you to make a circle with it. Okay, now stick your other finger out. And while you're making a circle with this one, make a rectangle with the other one. How's that going? We cannot consciously focus on two tasks at one time. Now we can quickly switch, but we can't do them at this. Our minds just aren't wired that way.

Now, when I use this exercise, sometimes in a training session, it's hilarious because some people will focus so hard and they'll say, Okay, if I go slow enough, I can do it. I'm like, Yeah, and so their tasks gonna take three times as long, right? They'll go. Yeah, and that's the whole thing with multitaskers. We slow ourselves down for getting anything done. Because we're switching back and forth so quickly, and using so much physical, mental, and sometimes even emotional energy, trying to switch between one and the other. So, no multitasking, it doesn't happen. Quick switch, quick switching, yes. But then we're wasting energy, that if we'd fully focus on one, get it done, and then fully focus on the other one as much as possible and get it done. We set ourselves up for so much more success.

Marlana

So now that we've decided that we're going to focus on the one thing, how do we cut out distractions or protect that time, so we can accomplish that?

Jones

I suggest that there are three sources of distraction for any of us that we have to manage. And those are internal, external and the expectations of others. Let's start with the internal is just what it sounds like. It's the noise in our heads. It's the perfectionism that screaming at us saying everything's gotta be done perfectly. It's the I've got to get everything done today. mentality, but it's that noise going on in our head. It's the worry that Okay, what if this happens, what if that happens? So, I think one of the things we have to do is to manage those internal distractions, we have to turn down that noise by, you know, let's just take procrastination or excuse perfectionism, and you know, I think it's stopping ourselves and saying, does everything really have to be done perfectly? Or does this task I'm working on what parts of it need to be done perfectly and what parts just need to be done? You know, one of my favorite quotes that I heard from someone, "sometimes Done is better than perfect," you know, type of thing. So, I think it starts with managing the internal.

The second thing is to manage the external. And this is usually the easiest one to deal with. It's the smartphone that's in your work area that's making the dings, or the chirps are lights up or the little red dots that tell you've got a notification. It's the noise around you, is the physical environment you're in. You know, it's interesting with so many people who are working remotely now, in my coaching with many of them, I'll do a an audit of their workspace and I'll say, do you currently see something that reminds you that you need to work on it or do you currently see something that that causes you to go Oh, I don't like seeing that they say, oh, sure I see some painting I need to be doing or, and he's painting on the walls, I said laundry needs to be folded, oh, I am sitting next to the kitchen. So, every time I look up, I'm like, I'm hungry. You know, that's what I'm talking about with the external, you know, we've got to deal with those external distractions to figure out how do we create an environment where it's easier to focus. And sometimes if you're working remotely, that's just changing the direction of your workspace. Some people like to get out of the office to go to a local coffee shop, or somewhere where they can put the earbuds in.

The third is expectations of others. You know, sometimes we get so caught up in thinking that this person wants this from us, or they want something a certain way or that they want us to be this, that that we just can't meet it. And they keep an example, in the workplace. Sometimes we've got a boss who, who keeps giving us work or has unrealistic deadlines for what we're supposed to be doing. And that, that frustrates us, What worries us, it feels heavy to us, and we can't deliver our best work. And so that's a distraction if you will. So, I think really, that's what it comes down to, is evaluating the internal, external, and the expectations from others. If you can get those in line and manage those effectively, then I think you have a better chance of being able to focus on that one thing.

Marlana

Do you think that we've become addicted to distraction? For example, our phone or let's say, you know, people say, Oh, I can do this and leave the television on while I'm working on this. So, do you think we've become a little addicted to them?

Jones

Yeah, and we could do a whole other podcast on this one, probably. But I think one of the things that happens for many people is that they like getting distraction, because they don't want to work on something else. I mean, I struggle with this, I've noticed that when I have something to work on that that feels heavy, or that seems hard. I noticed myself reaching for my coffee cup to take a sip of coffee, or I find myself going, I need a snack. Or I start saying, you know, I haven't checked my email, or if my email dings, oh, I need to check my email.

I think we have for lots of reasons, I'm addicted distractions, because it takes us away from focusing on the work that needs to be done. And there's a whole series of things we can do to help with that, sometimes that's making the task simpler, you know, reminding us of the outcome of getting this done, how much better we'll feel. And then sometimes it's just going back to those three things I mentioned earlier, but I do think we're addicted to our distractions, because it's a crutch for not doing more important work at times,

Marlana

or just the stuff we really don't want to do.

Jones

Exactly, yeah. And here's the thing, is that if we would do those things, we know the weight that will be lifted off of us. And that's what I talk to a lot of my coaching clients about,...

"RaRa"

Kathryn "RaRa" Asaro Mayers

THE BRIDGE

THE BRIDGE is A Unique Educational Platform That Demonstrates Change & Positive Action

We Are Advocates Of Activating Creativity, Cultivating Determination & Igniting Manifestation!

Kathryn "RaRa" Asaro Mayers is a Native New Yorker, born in Brooklyn, who loves everything about the Big City. She is an audacious storyteller and an advocate of the virtual economy.

For over 3 decades RaRa has been living in Canada raising her family, then devoting her time to building her networks & strategic alliances in Canada and worldwide.

Kathryn went on to develop her market in Real Estate while living in New York until the mid-'80s. Then Psychology, Fitness, Nutrition, Lifestyle & Business Strategizing while living in Montreal and New Business Development with her companies as an integral part of her 10-year plan.

Speaking, Presenting, Coaching, Team Building, Business Etiquette & Relationship Marketing are some of the skills RaRa is passionate about.

Key Businesses that have Kathryn's personal participation and partnership from inception are Brooklyn Heights, THE BRIDGE, Gratitude Girls, BU Network and her Send Out Cards-Team Gratitude.

Rotarian at heart since August of 2014 RaRa currently serves her community in Niagara as a member with her heart in "Service Above Self".

Appointed as one of a few selected, Director at Rotary Club of St. Catharines and Co-Chair of Membership Committee, RaRa is communicating with businesses and the members of the community on strategic membership growth and long term engagement.

Serving proudly at Art's Etobicoke as an Executive Director and Co-Chair for the Nominations Committee, RaRa is extremely devoted to the wellbeing of the community.

Kathryn is a former member of Toastmasters International and BNI: Business Network International and is currently an Ambassador Recruiter to assist in launching specific new chapters in GTA.

At THE BRIDGE, Our main focus is on Action-oriented behaviour and businesses that aim to monetize a new concept or reframe a current program to generate greater profitability.

Empowerment is a state of mind with THE BRIDGE and our Ambassador Clients. Bridging Phases are designed and created for companies and individuals who are aligned with having a competitive edge and strategizing more momentum.

RaRa is elated to be a VERITY member and commutes from Niagara on the Lake as an active and engaged member since August of 2021.

https://bio.link/rara

https://www.thebridgeempowers.com/

https://www.instagram.com/kathryn.asaro.77/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathryn-rara-asaro-mayers/

https://www.facebook.com/kathryn.asaro.77/

https://twitter.com/Kat_Tea

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcription : Vision In Word

Marlana

Katherine RaRa Asaro Mayers is passionate about speaking, presenting coaching, team building business etiquette and relationship marketing. She's partnered and participates with such organizations as Brooklyn Heights Gratitude Girls, the you network her send out cards team Gratitude and most importantly, the bridge where empowerment is a state of mind. Welcome, RaRa.

RaRa

Hi! How are you, Marlana?

Marlana

Good. So, let's talk about this path to success. During your path, was there anything that you were not expecting or that you would wish you had been better prepared for?

RaRa

As soon as you said that it took me back to my twenties. I'm thinking. I'm sure my path started before that, but in my twenties, I remember really experiencing success and thinking, This is it.

And then in my thirties and forties I can just look at it. In decades I experienced different forms of success and each time I remember thinking, This is it. I was speaking to someone this morning who said, I love my life, this is it. And each time there is a new level achieved. I always felt very grateful for that, and I left the window open just a little bit for new opportunities to come in.

So, along the path, I would say that I was always planning for success, and I was sort of expecting it. I wasn't settling. I wasn't thinking, Well, this will be just that kind of year. I was very driven. I started driving at 16, so maybe that's a good metaphor for that. I got behind the wheel at 16 and I'd been there for quite a long time, many decades. So, I believe that the journey and the path to success has always been the vision in my mind's eye that I've allowed to grow with each experience.

Marlana

So, do you think that it's important to have a clear vision of what it looks like to you, even if because I know along the way our vision can change or alter. But do you think it's important to continue to set?

RaRa

So, I think it's like going out into the sun. We dress appropriately. We protect our hair, face, or skin. We wear the right clothes. We get ready when we go out into that sunny day. We don't know if it's going to be scorching hot or cool off or a cloud will come over. If we're prepared. If our mind and our mindset and our vision is open, then success won't be a surprise or overwhelming or something that we have to strive and work towards, like an upward hike?

I think of every day is going out into the sunshine and being ready. Some days I get caught without sunscreen because I think I don't really need it. But then I get reminded by the professionals in my life. Why not protect yourself? Why not have all the tools? So, I look at that in our minds and say, Why not bring all my tools with me? Why not sharpen them all? Know where they are? Maybe I'll be more equipped for some than others, as you might be, but I will look at all of them before I go out into the day or out into the sun and say, Hello, how are you? Let's go and enjoy this day together. It seems to me logical and yet very creative to see what I'm bringing.

Marlana

So, what do you think are some important tools that we should have?

RaRa

Awareness is definitely key. You know, you see people walking across the street, you see people in shopping malls, and you see some people and you wonder, like, how do they do it? And you see others and they look like they're on a complete mission. And some look like they're stargazing. So, we don't judge, obviously, anyone by the cover, but we know if we're prepared and we're aware if we are attuned and tuned in to our self and what's happening. I was sitting with my husband last night and I asked him if he saw something and he said I was having another conversation and I said, Don't you have your eyes on me all the time? Are you not watching everything I'm doing every second? And he said, I am, but I didn't see anything out of the norm, so it didn't catch me. I'm like, okay, so it depends on your level and type of awareness. Are you tuned in or are you dialed in to what's going on around you? I say anything within a football field of me is in my zone.

Marlana

That's good. Are there a way that you have heightened your awareness to what's around you?

RaRa

I have many people in my life helping me. I am a big advocate of my mental health, so I am very involved with coaches that help me with Reiki, with yoga, with mind clearing, with energy clearing, with my health and my nutrition. I believe that everyone has their level of expertise, and far be it for me to decide that I would be an expert in all of those fields, which allows me to remain an expert in mine. So, I believe that it's important to have a support team for business, for marketing, for our minds, for our dreams, and of course, my lifelong partner, my husband who supports my every waking second.

Marlana

And keeps those eyes on you every waking.

RaRa

Second. Always. Sometimes I wonder how closely. But he says, closely so.

Marlana

How do we, in your opinion, set boundaries for ourselves? Because I know sometimes, we as women have a difficult time setting boundaries for some reason. So how do you set yours?

RaRa

I think I was born with a boundary meter, so I don't understand that part. So, I am very crystal clear on what I want to meet. Like I wear these. This is a Dalmatian, Jasper, Crystal Stone. It's a foundational crystal that I've just recently discovered through a friend, Tanya, from my company, The Bridge. And it's black and white for me. I'm very clear on what I want, and I know exactly where I stand at all times. And when I know where I stand, I surely know where you stand. So, my boundaries are more about my existence and where I feel I am either in or out of comfort or in or out of alignment when I know where I am, you know how far to go because you can sense that it's an energy.

Marlana

Yeah, you know. I had somebody say to me once. If you have difficulty in the beginning setting boundaries, make a list of your hard no's because then you already know up front that this is a line that people can't cross, and it becomes more solidified to you. What are your thoughts on that?

RaRa

I won't disagree with that, but I have many people in my life and if I made a list, I'd have to make 1000 because you have different boundaries with me than other people. I will tell you, my grandchildren have very few boundaries, like they can cross every line at any time. So, if I made a list, I might bring the hardness out. I just know where I stand at all times. I know where I am. So, if my three-year-old decides to lie across me from head to toe, there's no boundary for that. That's what they want. That's what they feel. I don't walk in with the boundary. I walk in knowing who I am and what I have to offer.

Marlana

Let's say in business, someone crosses a boundary with you. How do you correct that?

RaRa

I don't know how that would happen because again, I would stand as we have had some experience together, I stand in what I know. I am very transparent. I allow vulnerability. And I don't believe there is a position or a place where someone would want to take advantage because we do to others as we want others to do onto us. That's the energy that I hold. And if I hold that energy, I couldn't imagine someone wanting anything less of that.

Marlana

So, let's go back to this path to success. What are some of the potholes that you see people get caught in?

RaRa

Not being aware, not paying attention. Maybe being distracted, although I think distractions are great. I met my husband walking on the beach in Club Med Eleuthera. A hummingbird walked past me. That distraction was the best one in my life. My eyes are always open. I'm always aware of what's going on. Last night we were walking down the street and saying, We live in Niagara on the lake. And we were walking down the street in Old Town. And there's your cousin. If I were not looking, if my eyes weren't open, if we didn't park the car where we did, if we weren't holding hands walking down the street at that moment, we may not have seen our cousin. So, I believe the potholes are not looking and paying attention. Listen to our own instinct. If you close your eyes, you'll have a sense of what energy the two of us have. You'll decide if you want to stay there or not. If you don't listen to yourself, and if you do lean into it, we are the best guide for ourselves.

Marlana

So, what do you think? Or do you think that there are particular things that women need to keep their eyes open for that as opposed to men?

RaRa

Well, I love the fact that we look at ourselves. People really get a good look. I used to own a psychology personal fitness training facility over 25 years ago, and the experience I had was the women were able to take their clothes off and change their gym clothes and come into the treatment room with me. We do some body work and what was really great is the way that I didn't get to do that with the men. That wasn't part of the treatment. But I would watch how the women felt about their bodies all shapes, all sizes, all forms. And when someone would just finish a workout and a shower with some beautiful products that I would give them to scrub their body, make their skin glow, and then come into the treatment room and lie on the table.

They felt amazing. Some of those women were perfect height and weight for their shape and BMI, and some of them were £50 overweight, but they felt great. And I think looking at ourselves and embracing who we are and what we are and what we have, not someone else, but purely stand in front of the mirror. Take your clothes off, ladies and gentlemen, and see if you like what you're looking at. And are you proud and be proud of who you are at that exact moment because people will sense that. Do you ever see someone walking down the street and you're like, I want what they're having? You remember that movie when Harry Met Sally and she went into that whole scene.

I want what I'm having so that I can maintain this level of high vibration. So, in terms of what you said about boundaries before and our journey, I think to surround ourselves with people that we feel are on a high vibration tune into that. Yes, we all have to clean the house and mop the floor. And some of us don't ever do that, but just use it as a metaphor. And sometimes we have to like to look through the papers and pay the bills. But once you decide, do you spend your time doing those things or do you have others do it for you so that you can remain at a higher vibration? I personally like to remain in the zone where I really work with high energy, and I prefer to have other people do other things for me because that's their energy. So, I don't want to take a job away from anyone else because I like to stay in my zone. So, I like to know where I am, who I am, what am I bringing into the room at this moment and how am I handling that? So, I look in the mirror every day. Mirror There's my New York accents coming out and I look, and I say, I'm really grateful for who I am. And if I thought, well, gee, I really wish I were a little taller or I thought I was, or a little bigger here or smaller here, I take another look and say, let's just be really grateful for who I am at this moment, because it could be so different and wishing something other than what we have could go anywhere we any way we do and don't want.

Marlana

Let's talk about that for a minute, because I think that's a struggle for a lot of women. We look in the mirror and instead of seeing the wonderful and beautiful things, we focus on the flaws, or we pick apart what we see. Any advice on how we can make that mental shift to stop doing that and to focus on what's beautiful?

RaRa

Sure. Work with a great coach. Work with me. Talk to me. I can't fix what's in your head, but I can certainly put another light on it. I will take the emotional gaps and bridge them to the gaps of reality. Sometimes we're thinking about something that's totally not where we're at, so we lose our confidence, and we lose our mojo about something. And then you take someone who is going to focus on that for you and come in and put the light where it needs to be. That might take a few taps. It might take a few promptings. We don't always get trained in one session. It's a lifelong journey for me, so I wouldn't ever take my foot off the gas when it comes to improving myself and personal growth. I don't think I ever have enough because I intend to be as amazing at 100 as I am right now at 64.

Marlana

Yeah. And you know, I think that's another thing, too. It's not a destination, it's a journey. And people need to accept that it's a journey. Let me ask this, when you are on this path to success, how strongly is the link between how we feel about who we are, whether it be physically or mentally? How strong is that link to you between that and success?

RaRa

Well, I look at myself as the only person that I need to really deal with. I don't really look at anybody else's version. I look at my own. I think about my heart and my soul and my energy when I wake up in the morning. And if it's where I want it to be, maybe I need to do some extra breathing. I have a ritual. It's really important to have rituals. So, I have a ritual. I don't wake up and let the dog out and find the cat. I have animals, but even when I did, I knew where they were at all times because their energy was around me. So, I believe that when you know who you are. And you're checking in on yourself. You don't really need to be distracted by something else that someone else says or thinks. Now, there are trauma cases. There are cases where there is extreme hurt and pain in people's lives, and that's that needs to be addressed. So, if there is something that is traumatic, then absolutely I recommend we look at that, as painful as it might be, just look at it. Decide to be aware of it. Step one, take a look. Step two, decide what you're going to do. Step three, decide if you're going to take an action. Step four, take an action. So, if you just go right into take an action and that's the way your modus operandi is, that might be fine for you. But if you're going to doubt yourself, if your...

Jason Azevedo

MRCA

Jason created his first manufacturing company with just $600 when he was only 15 years old. At this young age he was able to establish business with some of the greatest companies in the world such as Starbucks, Nike, Disney, Marvel, Volkswagen, Audi, Lucas films, dodgers, NBA teams. By the time he was 20 he was already making millions in revenue.

Jason is one of the most dynamic people you will meet. He owns and operates the last standing MADE IN AMERICA factories (IN CALIFORNIA NO LESS!) and has hatched a plan to give back the factories and some of his wealth to the American workers.

In 2009, Jason co-founded Mosaic, taking on the role of CEO — his talents are far beyond running the company, with duties touching conceptual development, engineering, and deployment. Since 2009, Jason's been at the helm of growing the company year-over-year, acquiring several entities, and creating several others to round out manufacturing efforts. His emphasis on Made In America is a driving force for how the various companies he's co-founded operate. He also assists with business development and client strategy and is an integral part of how we operate.

Twitter: https://twitter.com/GOMRCA

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/202657382027478

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/manufacturingrevitalizationcorporationofamerica/?viewAsMember=true

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gomrca/

Twitter:https://twitter.com/JAzevedoMRCA

Facebook: facebook.com/jasonazevedoMRCA

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-azevedo/

Instagram: @jasonazevedomrca

https://mrca.net/

https://advoque.com/

https://mosaic-sf.com/

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcription : Vision In Word

Marlana

Jason Azevedo created his first manufacturing company with just $600 when he was only 15 years old. At this young age, he was able to establish business with some of the greatest companies in the world like Nike, Disney, Marvel, Volkswagen and Lucasfilm. By the time he was twenty, he was already making millions in revenue. Among other things, he has gone on to Co found mosaic growing with company year over year. Welcome Jason.

Jason

Awesome, thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk to them.

Marlana

So, I'm intrigued by this because at 15 years old, what at that point did you know about business?

Jason

That it was a thing that people do. It was wonderful moment in time because you don't know what you don't know, so you go try it and we had this harebrained idea to go print T shirts and that grew and grew and grew and it let's see where we're at today. We started in February of 2000. Here comes the late 2007, early 2008 crash. We lost everything before we had anything. It was so you learn business in a way that no one else did and it wasn't reading a ton of books. You were living one of the hardest markets in history, and it taught you just how to kind of deal with the emotional side of stuff, the business side of it, the finance and we just kind of learn and put our heads down and kept on working.

Marlana

You know, it's interesting that you bring that up because I thought people with the pandemic that we're starting businesses in the early pandemic. That in some ways they had a little bit of an advantage because you were already seeing where the holes were, so you know what? To plug up so. It seems the same kind of. Thing for you is that.

Jason

Yeah, it was actually really interesting because what ended up happening was, we were able to buy equipment cheaper than any other company could because there's fire sales going on left and right. All of the big competitors they were. It wasn't a huge margin business, so if they lost one or two major clients, it really hurt them. So, we were able to pick up clients that were dropping off of them. So, what everyone was telling us was so horrible time to start a business. You don't lose everything or like we don't have anything to begin with $600 Think so. We kind of just shut out all the noise and when you are really peel the back, it was such a great time to do it because everything was on sale and clients existed and now it wasn't the easiest time. No, of course not, but it really did give your insight to 1st off what not to do because you could see what didn't work in the business. The other cool part was everyone was willing to help you because everyone was kind of in a bad spot. So, when we're saying, hey, we're just starting a lot of the elders in the industry are like oh, you stupid kids. OK, try looking at it this way. In this way, so we use it to our advantage. And I think you're right. So, one thing with the pandemic. It gave people an opportunity where it's like hey I can't work anyways, so you might as well just do something else.

Marlana

Yeah, so you're 15 and you're making T shirts. How do you get on the radar of these major come?

Jason

So, there's a couple ways. First off, at 15 we started making like high school T shirts and like family picnics and it was not the crazy stuff we got into by 16-17 realized there really wasn't a business model in that, at least not for us and my brother and I are super. Creative developmental we are manufacturers at our core. And we started thinking about it like hey, we want to do crazier and bigger and not more, not stuff and you got to remember. Right? The markets at this time nobody is spending extra money on a family reunion or an extra T shirt for their school. The only people are spending money are these high-end things. So, we start developing the most complex crazy what's talking people like. Don't do that. You'll never make money. Printing like that like, well, we're not gonna. Make money printing the other way, either. So, we started developing crazy stuff. Well, what happens is. The markets pulling back. Nobody wants to do this development to work at the time. We are the only ones crazy enough to do it because we don't have business anyways, so everyone else is doing this, kind of retreating mode. And we're just you. Have this crazy idea. I'll try that. You have a crazy idea. I'll try it you. Have a great idea I'll try it and you become that person is trying everything, and the other side is. We shared everything you wanted to know what we were doing. I was on every form until this day. I try, we try to keep our doors open with everything where it's hey. I'm not protecting my getting my information. I mean of course. There's certain business things you have to, but. Through the greater majority of it were like no check out this where we're doing people jump on the phone how did you guys do that? How did. It work and we'd share that information well. What ends up happening is even when you share the information and like you know what? You're the expert in this space? Don't you just take these three accounts for me, and we just became the experts in our space and that's what we've done with all of our manufacturing companies. Hey, we share information all day long. Nothing we're doing is all that cutting edge is the reality. We're not building an iPhone here. It's like this is it's manufacturing like do you. This isn't the. Greatest thing on it, and if you even. Look at it. Look at what Elon's done with. With Tesla, where he released all the patterns. And it's like. Hey guys, if we share information, we. Grow faster and that's what we. Did and that's how we. Got into these big names. Accounts and then there was a. There was some lock in there. Of course. I mean we met the editor of one of the largest publications in our industry. It happened to be her birthday and she was alone. In a restaurant and. Kind of look sad and my brother and me. Just didn't know that she was there. She was part of the. Industry and we're. Just like hey you wanna just join us for dinner? Like you, you seem bored. And we had a bunch of. Other people, that's what comes. Out, this happens to be. The editor of one of the largest industry magazines. So, it like, but it was all it and it's. Always been for. Us just go out, be nice, help people and it. Pays you back in in triplicate every time.

Marlana

But you know, and that's such an interesting and key point, because I'm a firm believer too, that you don't come from a place of sales, you come from a place of service and I agree with you 180% about sharing your information, because even without what I do, nothing I do is proprietary. I create images for people, and you know the more we can share with what we do and pull back the curtain, the bigger we grow, the better we get.

Jason

Well, it's on my thumb every morning at 9:00 AM. No matter what time zone I'm in, I move time zones a lot at 9:00 AM. My phone says fix clients problem cause that's what we pushed. We're not doing anything insanely complex. It is the true reality of it. And if you can do that every single day, you will continue to be at very least seen as the person who fixes bombs, and everybody likes the person who fixes the problem. So, regardless of anything else, you've got one up there because it's, hey, you're coming in. How do we take on this issue? You wouldn't bring me the issue if it wasn't causing you a problem, so let's figure it out. I see it, especially in our manufacturing industry. People are very stuck in their ways. And go Oh no, that's not going to work. Guys it's gonna work like somehow now might not work today, might not work tomorrow, but it is going to work if we're putting rockets up in space, landing them back. On moving boats, and I think we could figure out how to make it.

Marlana

Boy yeah, how much do you think we all need to be open to the quote. UN quote crazy ideas.

Jason

I think we have to be very open to and then went through, so I tell everybody in my company things happen for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and made. A bad decision. It's like, hey so yes. Listen to the crazy ideas, but also realize crazy ideas are crazy. Sometimes, I've heard a lot of people that come up with a crazy solution to a problem that doesn't exist and it's like no, no, no, that's a crazy idea like it's just that that's rude, Goldberg device. If that brings you joy and you want to do it, go ahead, and do. But understanding the crazy ideas need to be solving a crazy problem, and if SpaceX didn't have the problem, that it was too expensive to get rockets to Earth and our to outer space and back. It is a completely ridiculous idea to land on a moving platform, but that changes the game. So, it's understanding the crazy ideas. Is crazy, but if they're solving an issue, then they're worthwhile.

Marlana

Yeah, and you know that's the other thing, it's core, that's all business is. It's super solving a problem for money. That's it.

Jason

Exactly, there's a famous quote, "the bigger the problem that you solve, the more money you will make." It's just that simple. If you're willing to go on to bigger and crazier problems, you will get better and better results. But understanding that the harder that problem is, the more failure that you're going to have to learn to adapt with on the process of learning. And I watched this a lot. Like I can't take on this crazy problem, I'm gonna fail 20 times like you're lucky it was only 20 perfects so it's truly understanding that and building up that tolerance to failure is incredibly important. And there's really no way to do about tolerance up rather than just failing a lot. There's a lot of studies that show that were very successful their whole lives, really good at sports, really good in school. Because they haven't learned to fail all time where you get the guys who fail all the time, they end up becoming these great leaders because like I don't even know what it's like to not fail, so why not keep on trying?

Marlana

Yeah, So what would you say that your brand became known for?

Jason

We build, I was doing a talk the other day, I explained something I think I was that kid when I was growing up that was pigpen from Charlie Brown, right there. Like, it was just a mess around me at all times. I could like go missing for 30 seconds. Come back with grease all over me. Uh, I was also the kid with Legos in my entire life and we're building up these crazy things. Well, what we learn or what I learned is, we can actually make it clear. We build everything, and the way we do is, we do manufacture, and we've done everything from children toys to the control panels for nuclear reactors to beauty lighting products. I mean, you name it. And everyone and. Add to that company. Just building companies so that are my personal brand new. The brand around us as we build things and then we build solutions. It's hey, what is that process to get a result in an item and that is what we're known for and it's exciting and the one with our with mercy. Now we're building local communities and that is really the fun one. Where it's like I get to build a product that builds a company, that builds a local community. It's starting to get really cool cause you're starting to compound that growth.

Marlana

So, talk to us a little bit about that, what's that all looking like?

Jason

OK, so for functionally, we own a private equity group. But really, we're manufacturers. We use private equities. It's cool. We're going out with buying legacy US manufacturing companies usually second third generation. I did this privately before me, my brothers and other partners, both links, and then we truly realized that these legacy manufacturing companies are oftentimes the cornerstone of their local community, and they are good paying jobs, they're safe. This isn't the factories people are used to seeing. These are good jobs with low barriers to entry that really give everyone an opportunity to succeed. So, we buy these companies; we're bolting them together over a process of about 5 to 7 years. We're expecting, leaving them in the local communities that they serve and bringing business to them through the network of companies. Are investors realize return as we're pulling the profits and we sell it. But then we added in a little caveat. At the end we are actually going to transfer 100% of the ownership to the employees through an ESOP, so that the ownership of those legacy companies remains in that look. We see it as our way to truly make a change. We are and make returns because it is a business and that is the reality. But those two do not have to be against each other and we really want to see these local communities strength in American manufacturing is it's about to go through the most meteoric rise, it's seen in 100 years. It's a really special time in history. So, what we're doing is we're making sure that that's preserved at the local level with a national presence so that you get the best of both worlds.

Marlana

Love that. So, let me kind of pull all this together for a minute and ask you, how do you go out and do create these opportunities for yourself? Or are they a product of networking and finding out what needs to be done and information? Do you leverage other relationships that you've had?

Jason

Oh God! I wish there was an easy answer to that, of course, because of our track record opportunities are brought. I will say between my brother and I; we probably look at anywhere from 25 to 100 opportunities. This week we're looking at company. I have my entire team as a firm belief, there's no way to find an opportunity unless you go to it. So, last week we drove from Austin, TX to Dallas, TX, Dallas, TX, Little Rock, Little Rock to Northern Arkansas, Northern Arkansas, Memphis, Memphis is Cocoa Beach FL because most of the companies we look at and work with our in rural areas. So, getting an airplane to each one of them is virtually impossible. So, we just drive, and people think we're nuts, and we are, but you gotta get yourself out there and go see what you're working on and meet the people, meet the community, understand what makes it tick and you can't do that once you put the work in. It's kind of funny almost to me cause they're doing it from it. If they're doing it from very much a financial standpoint and there the opportunities, will it have to check 15 boxes. That's just not the way we do it. Our skill sets different, so we were on the road a lot more. And I'm sure all of ours, families wish we did it from the desk, but it's not in our DNA to do it that way.

Marlana

So, you're at that point now. However, lets pull it back a little bit. Let's say somebody has their T shirt idea, whatever that happens to be, what would you say to them? But as far as advice goes, to develop higher level partnerships and

Theresa Depasquale

Capture Social Group

CEO and founder of Capture Social Group, Theresa Depasquale helps busy entrepreneurs grow their brands on social media.

With over 10 years of experience, she's mastered the art of online branding and social media strategy and has become the go-to for many high-level clients and companies providing one-on-one consulting and management programs to help them successfully grow their reach, credibility and sales on social media.

http://capturesocialgroup.com/

Instagram Strategy Course -- https://socialbutterflycourse.com/course47729334

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcription : Vision In Word

Marlana

CEO and founder of Capture Social Group, Theresa Depasquale has mastered the art of online branding and social media strategy and has become the go to for many high-level clients to help them successfully grow their reach credibility and sales on social media. Welcome, Theresa.

Theresa

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Marlana

So first, tell everybody a little bit about your background and how you got to this point.

Theresa

Yeah, that's a great question. So, I started my entrepreneurial journey, owning gyms, I had a couple of health clubs here in the Tampa Bay area. And at that time, I was also a very new mom with two little nuggets and kind of a new wife and a lot going on. And I just decided that that whole brick and mortar membership-based business is not my favorite thing, and not gonna work for me. I ended up getting really sick just from stress. Because as you know, when you're a new mom, you don't sleep a lot. I have a lot on my plate, I ended up closing one gym and selling another recipe for nothing, we ended up actually bankrupting. And in that time, I kind of took off when I was not feeling well. And I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna take a year off and kind of forget what I want to do. And Instagram had just come out. And I was like, just kind of fiddling around on there. And like, I remember not even knowing how to put a post-up, I was kind of like, how do you even use this app? It's so weird. I have no idea what I'm doing. But long story short, at that time, I had owned the gyms, but I had never done anything with like competitive fitness. And I had this year that I was like, not really working. So, I was kind of like, you know what, I'm gonna do a fitness show because it scares the *** out of me. And if I'm scared of something that means I have to do it. So, it was like, You know what, let me just lean in, I'm gonna commit to one. And so, at that time, I started using Instagram and I was like posting my journey of doing this kind of fitness show. And I was just started growing followers and back then it was like, so easy to grow so different than it is now you know? And so, I was kind of like when the OG fitness people on Instagram. It was like me and Natalie. Becca surname, Natalie Skye. And or no knowledge will fit and Emily sky. There was a couple of us that really started back then. And so, I kind of just started really kind of like, oh, well, maybe there's something here with this whole Instagram thing. And I wrote an e book. It was called The Kinney Mom's Secrets. And I remember I sold $5,000 In one day to my Instagram audience. And I was like, Whoa, I was like, Okay, there's a business here, like this is something is happening.

I got very serious about it actually started building other marketing pages on Instagram. I like what 100% And I was doing, like, I had these huge brand pages that I would sell ads on or leverage them to build my page. I did all this stuff on Instagram. And so, I did that for a while until I actually started a whole online fitness business based off of my Instagram. So, I ended up building it was a pretty large it was a high six figure online fitness business. I wrote a book, I wrote a really good best-selling book, I developed an app, I did all the personal brand things. And so, it's kind of was at a point in the towards the end of my fitness career, I ended up joining a mastermind to learn online marketing. And in that mastermind, I started doing a lot of consulting for building your brand on social media. And so, my mentor who's one of my very good friends now JJ virgin, she just kind of, she was the one that put on the mastermind. She's like, you know, you're so good at this, like, why don't you just do this? And I was kind of like, okay, because I was honest with you. I mean, after 15 years in the fitness industry, I was kind of done anyways, I was really tired of doing the whole bikini pictures and all that kind of stuff. I was like, you know, I'm in my mid-30s. I think I'm done with all this. So, I was ready to transition. So yeah, I sold my fitness business. And I started this business a little over three years ago. I've never looked back since and I'm obsessed. I love it.

Marlana

So, talk to us, then how do we use Instagram to do what you did?

Theresa

There's a lot to it. So, what I do, and it's like kind of the same people that you work with, which is why we're chatting is I really work my wheelhouse is working with personal brands to help them understand how to build their brand on social media and be able to leverage it for their business. There's different models of monetization, obviously, you can be an influencer, I don't teach people how to do that. That's actually different model. I work with people who are like entrepreneur experts at something like entrepreneurs, or expert doctors, or motivational speakers, or health coach, or whatever something of that nature, that they want to build a brand and be able to leverage it for social, for their business. So that's what I teach and everything that I teach is based around engagement.

Marlana

So actually, what you do because I know a friend of mine had once said to you want to be an influencer or a person of influence. So, you work with people of influence, as opposed to the influencer?

Theresa

I'm going to write that down as still as a quote. Okay, I'm gonna steal that. So basically, really like to get you to your point. If you're gonna be person of influence, then you have to have an engaged audience. And so, when I started figuring out and you know, I built this huge personal brand Instagram and I don't know if you remember years ago, I don't know how many years ago maybe four or five the whole algorithm came out, don't get because it changed the whole platform. And so, it was kind of at that point, I had to really dig in and be like, Okay, How does this whole like I'm, I'm really kind of a unicorn because I'm very creative, but I'm also obsessed and like analytical and like data driven. So, I'm like this weird unicorn, which is why I'm good at social media. But yeah, I had to really figure it out. And what I figured out is, it's like you everyone overlooks the basic stuff, which is like you've got to build, you have to have an engaged audience. So, what we teach is all of the strategies for that. And it's really about like, you know, one foot in front of the other, there's no hacks, you don't buy fake followers, you don't buy fake stuff, no vanity metrics. Because if you're trying to leverage it for your business, that's not going to do any good. They're not going to buy anything, right. It's always say, having a big social media following that is engaged, just like having a big email list that doesn't open your emails, right? There's no, there's no point, right? What's the point? So, everything we do is really based around. I mean, you can make a lot of, you know, you can drive traffic and build a really significant business, even with a couple 1000 followers, you don't need hundreds of 1000s of followers on Instagram. So that's kind of like the skills, the tactics, and strategies that we teach. It works at 500 followers, and it works at 500,000 followers, it's the same strategy.

Marlana

So, what are some of the key points that we would have to keep in mind without giving away all this secret sauce?

Theresa

I'm happy to talk about it. There's so many so much. Okay, we're gonna start, I would say, you know, the biggest thing is, people want to follow people on social media, I think that a lot of experts and entrepreneurs I work with, that want to leverage their social media for their business, whether it's Instagram or any other one, they start off, and they start branding themselves as their business. And that's a really a, it's not advantageous for multiple reasons. One is, people are on social media be social, right? So, they really don't want to follow businesses, they want to follow people. So, you're gonna get exponentially more growth and engagement with a personal brand page versus a business page. So, and that's an open-ended question, because everyone's like, so should I have a business page? Yeah, you can have one. But I wouldn't focus all of your efforts on that, I would focus on your personal brand page, because that's gonna build so much more brand equity, you're gonna get so much more reach and growth, that it's gonna be able to funnel all that over to your business way more than if you just tried to build a brand page. So, you're gonna…

Marlana

let me just ask you this real quick. So, let's say we are a public figure or an entrepreneur solopreneur, any of that kind of thing. And we have our page, even though we are conducting it as a personal brand, should it be a quote unquote, business page? Or should it Shun?

Theresa

Yes, exactly. So, most people get confused on that. So, you, when I say personal page, it means like the content you're putting up, but the settings, we typically recommend creator or business account, Instagram, because you're gonna get the analytics and you've got to have, if you get anything, you can't manage what you don't have any numbers for, right? So, you've got to have data. You've got to have analytics, you have to have a greater business account. So that's a great question. But what I'm talking about is like the front facing content, like if you visit a paintable conference page, yeah, so good question. But yeah, I would say that's number one.

The second part of that is also you know, we're entrepreneurs, and we're not gonna be doing the same things forever. Look at me. And so, learn by my example. I branded myself as my business, my Instagram was called Bikini Boss Teresa for seven years, because that was my business name, my brand name, my everything. I kind of equate it to like, it's like typecasting yourself as like Seinfeld, like Jerry's, he's just gonna be Seinfeld forever, because that's what you don't have as, right. And so, people are so like Bikini Boss, and like, oh, gosh, okay, like, yeah, don't make the mistake that I made. So, because you might want to change them, or you might pigeonhole yourself, right? So, you don't want all this time and money building this following for just this one thing. I always say, like, build your personal brand. And your business is just one thing that you do. So that down the road, if you change, you still are your personal brand, and you're just changing the thing that you do, right?

I teach strategies in my course, I have an Instagram strategy course. And part of it is, this is another thing, I'll give you, it's a three to one posting strategy. So, a good rule of thumb, and this is just generalization. Okay? This is you don't have to stick with it for everything. But let's say you want to do out of every six posts, three of them can be more business related, at least two of them should be more personal. And then one can be some kind of a sales call-to-action promotion, something. Because you also don't want to spam your audience to death. Right? I know you want to leverage it for business, but people don't want to feel like they're gonna use car salesmen. Right? Oh, but so the three to one is like one of my posting strategies when you're planning your content. So again, three, business post two should be more personal and one CTA for every six posts, so it's a good strategy for you.

Marlana

What about hashtags and things like that? How do we find the hashtags that will work for us? Because there are zillion out there?

Theresa

That's a really open-ended question. So, I'll try to give some tips. Okay. I think people don't understand what hashtags foreign hashtags are very simple. If you think about what they're for. It makes it really easy for you to understand how to use them. Hashtags are basically your way of communicating to the algorithm what you're posting About so that they until the algorithm understands where it needs to categorize it. Okay, who it needs to show it to you, right? What users because users have different interests? So, your hashtags are what is going to communicate that. So, if you put a bajillion different hashtags that don't make any sense, in one post, guess what's going to happen, it's not going to understand what your post is about, and you're probably not gonna hit anything. So, one of the biggest things with hashtags is specificity. Getting very specific, if you're putting up a post about branding, then you need to have 15, hashtags about branding, right? Not branding, entrepreneurship, #hustle, #bosslife, because even though that could go with branding, you're just confusing the algorithm. So you've got to get super specific with what you're doing, that's the biggest hash tag to buy, I can tell you, make sure you're using different sizes, I think a lot of people go and they put the biggest hash tag they can find that also is not great, because what's happening is like, basically, you're now competing with, like, say that there's a hashtag for 1.5 million hashtags, you're now competing with 1.5 million other posts to be seen at the top of that hashtag thread. So, I'm not saying to never use the big ones, I'm saying that you also want to use the smaller ones, because you're gonna have a much more likelihood of actually ranking at the top of that, that thread, and hashtags on Instagram, specifically, our SEO for Instagram, because people that's one of the biggest ways they're searching for content and accounts is through hashtags. So, they're going to those pages and looking at the posts on those pages. So, if you can rank at the top of that page, it's one of the best ways to attract your ideal followers.

Marlana

How about the number of hashtags, and you can put up to 30?

Theresa

But we always recommend like 15 to 20 optimize Hotshots. Optimize means like you're researching the specificity, the different sizes. You don't want to use anything that's banned or censored. There's a lot of hashtags that they basically, if you could, if you go to the hashtag, and you see like a thing that says like, content has been hidden on this hashtag due to community violations, don't use that hashtag, because that's a sense hashtag, because people have been obviously abusing, and you'd be shocked, there's like, way more than you probably think. And if you use that, you will hit any hashtags. Okay, so taking the time to research and looking at the you know, I'm saying what each hash tag is, before you just put them on there is a really big deal.

Marlana

And what's the best way to research them?

Theresa

Just do it on our and manually? Okay. Yeah, I'm not a fan of any of the software's that do like the hashtag generation, because like I said, they're just not specific enough. Like they're just there. It's kind of like a random dump of like, a million hashtags. I mean, I guess if it's better than nothing, you're gonna do nothing, that it's better, but it's not the most effective. There's a lot of people that like, they'll say, hashtags don't work. It's because they don't understand how to use them. Right? They absolutely one of our biggest ways that we grow pages,

Marlana

is there a way to find the other hashtags that are relevant to? Let's say, it's personal branding?

Theresa

Yes. Well, other hashtags come up that are totally nuts. Yep. when you go in, and Instagram made it really easy, like, say, you type in personal branding, and that's whatever 500,000 I'm making it up. If you see underneath, it's going to show you all relevant hashtags that are smaller and different sizes underneath and you can just go grab, you know, I'm saying that you can grab the ideas and then put them in your, so it makes it very easy.

Marlana

And what are geotags? Explain what those aren't people, your tags,

Theresa

your location tags. So, I mean, they're very beneficial. We use them to get engagement in the post, because people don't realize there's actually nine different types of engagement on Instagram, I talk a lot about Instagram, because when you're talking about, you know, people like us, that are experts and entrepreneurs, I personally believe Instagram is the best platform for us. I love it, it's got so many different features, you can grow organically, still, you can attract your ideal person, they have so many analytics and data. So, for me, it's my favorite. We do other platforms, and a lot of these rules apply. But I really talk a lot about Instagram. You're gonna hear me really focusing on Instagram. Yeah. So, for Instagram, there's nine types of engagement. There is the ones most people think about, which is likes, comments, shares, and saves. Right? That's active engagement, because people are doing something. There's passive engagement, which is impressions and reach, which means reach is how many people are seeing your content impressions is how many people are seeing your content, but even kind of repeatedly, right? So, it could be the same people seeing it multiple times. And then there's time on page if somebody visits your page, and they're just kind of looking around, but they're not doing anything. So that counts as engagement. And then there's interested engagement, which we like as entrepreneurs, which is DMs, website clicks. So, there's nine types of engagement.

If we want to boost engagement, one of the ways and this is a tactic that we teach, if you use...