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Merrick Rosenberg, CEO, Take Flight Learning

Merrick Rosenberg co-founded Team Builders Plus, one of the first team building companies in the United States, back in 1991. In 2012, he reinvented how people learn about themselves through the personality styles and started his second company, Take Flight Learning. He is the author of four books about tapping into the power of your personality, including The Chameleon and Personality Wins. Merrick has worked with more than half of the Fortune 100 companies in the U.S. and around the world. Under Merrick's leadership as CEO of Take Flight Learning, his company has been selected as the New Jersey Business of the Year by NJ Biz Magazine and has repeatedly been named as one of the Fastest Growing Companies and Best Places to Work in the Philadelphia area by the Philadelphia Business Journal.

Websites: MerrickRosenberg.com, TakeFlightLearning.com

Twitter: @MerrickR

Instagram: Merrick_Rosenberg

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PersonalityWins

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/merrickrosenberg/

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio: Ariza Music Productions

Marlana: In 2012, Merrick Rosenberg reinvented how people learn about themselves through personality styles and started his second company Take Flight Learning. He's the author of four books about tapping into the power of your personality, including The Chameleon and Personality Wins. Welcome, Merrick.

Merrick: Thanks for having me.

Marlana: So first of all, tell us what these personality types are.

Merrick: Well, there's four core styles, and historically; they've been this alphabet soup of letters. And I wanted to make it easier and simple for people to remember. So I linked the four styles to four birds makes it pretty easy and also very obvious too. If you think about an eagle. Eagles are confident, they're assertive, they're take charge, very direct, they like to be in charge. You've got parrots, parrots are fun. They're social, talkative, outgoing, they bring lots of energy and excitement, doves caring, compassionate, or soft spoken. This is that person in your family. They want everyone to get along. They are harmonious and all like conflict. They're the peacemaker. And then you have the owl who's logical and analytical and detail oriented, if they're going to do something, they have a plan. And they do it right. The first time. They're accurate and very systematic, and they ask lots of questions. So we've got four styles. We're not just one, we're a combination of all four, but they play out in everything we do, from our personal relationships to work wherever we go,

Marlana: can we be one, but strive to be another? Or it's pretty much inherent in us, whatever the one is?

Merrick: There's often one or two styles that are very strong for us. And, you know, they drive our success, they allow us to be who we are, if you work out of your style, and you want it to be something else, it would be exhausting. If you take something like public speaking, well, parrots tend to like to be in front of a group, they love the energy, they like the fanfare. If you took that parrot and put them out on stage, they're loving it, it feeds their soul. But if you put them in a cubicle eight hours a day, and they have crank data in spreadsheets, and have zero human interaction, they would go home exhausted every day. So if you had a parrot who was trying to be more like an owl, they're just not wired for it, it would drain them, and why not do what feeds you instead of what drains you? So be yourself, trying to be somebody else is just going to exhaust you anyway.

Marlana: Which that makes perfect sense. So, tell us, what are the strengths of each one? Like how do we lean into that?

Merrick: If you look at the strength of the eagle style, their confidence, that confidence drives them to want to be in charge, because if I'm in charge, I will make it happen. It drives them to take risks. Because if I believe in myself, I might be taking a risk, but you know what, I will make it happen, I will achieve this objective, I'll accomplish something big. If you have someone like the Dove, their strengths are their interpersonal skills. So you ever talk to someone who's a dove, and they say to you, "Hey, how are you" and you say, "Oh, I'm good". And then they look at you and they're like, "come on! What's going on?" And it's just this empathetic intuition. They sense it, and for the dove who leans into that strength, they might find a job where they're a counselor or a therapist or in a family. They're the peacemaker, and they keep everybody together. Parrot strengths are just those interpersonal skills, that ability to connect with people, talk with people, can go to a conference, not know anyone. And it looks like they know everybody. And because they have this interpersonal ability, they're salespeople, they're able to sell. They're in human resources. They're care about culture. They're the person in your family who brings fun and energy and excitement. And for the owl, their core strength is the ability to be patient and take their time and ask the right questions. So they can do things well and do things right. And so they bring a sense of quality and accuracy and precision. And look, you want them in roles where if you don't do it, right, it's gonna be a problem. If you had a surgeon and you knew they were an owl, you might say, I'm pretty good with that. I like the fact that they're going to take their time, they're going to make sure everything's done properly. So, leaning into our strengths and being who we are, we can be the best version of ourselves.

Marlana: So, let me ask you this. Do each of them also then have inherent weaknesses that we need to be aware of?

Merrick: I don't necessarily think of them as weaknesses. What I think Give them as it's like pushing your strengths into the red zone, you take the owl style because they want to do things so correctly. If you drive that up and you push it into the red zone, it's like you crank up the strength too much, then they become the perfectionist, and they're so critical and they can't get anything done. And you take the Dove, they're compassionate, they're caring, but take anything to an extreme, even love. And you just dial that up into the red zone. They may be smothering. I think of them as like the grandmothers like I'm fully not a no, here you eat, but I'll put some on your plate. Not an awful! Alright! I'll wrap it for, you know, we got along right now, don't worry about it. I'll give it to you. And it's love but even love dialed up to an extreme because it can become smothering and become a week's parrot optimism, can become toxic optimism, where they're so positive, that they're unrealistic, that they bring so much energy and excitement. But now they're frenetic and scattered and all over the place. So even something as good as optimism, dial it up too much, how they're just not realistic and are grounded eagles, they're direct. That's great. You know what they're thinking they call it like it is, yeah, but dial it up too much push it in the red zone. And now they're blunt and insensitive and offending the people around them because they're too abrasive. So I don't necessarily think of the of the styles as having weaknesses. I think when you're getting to that space, there's some stressor that's causing that. And that's a red flag, something's out of balance. And that we need to bring you back into balance so that you're using the strength of the style, instead of those redzone behaviors, which probably push other people's buttons, and really don't serve us.

Marlana: So, how do we bring ourselves back into balance if we find ourselves going too far?

Merrick: Yeah, the first step is to realize, okay, this is a behavior that's not serving me, if you're a parrot, you have to have that self awareness to recognize, am I being optimistic or overly realistic? Am I being direct? Or am I being offensive? It's recognizing what your style looks like at a healthy level. And knowing what you look like when you are out of balance, so that when you then display those out of balance behaviors, it's that trigger of like, oh, yeah, I probably said that a little too bluntly. I'm an eagle. Alright, dial it back. Because once you do that, it's now getting in your way, you're probably as an eagle and offensive people around you. Now you're not getting the results you want. And so it's understanding what you look like at a healthy level, but also what you look like in that out of balance, overuse redzone level so that when it happens, it triggers the thought. All right, dial it back, take a breath.

Marlana: Is there a way to determine what someone else is? So we know perhaps how to work with them better? Or how to deliver information to them better?

Merrick: Absolutely! Look, if I were to model it for you, I'll show you and you can see if you can get started with style of owl and even just having known them for a few minutes, I will bet you'll be able to figure them out. So if I were to meet you and I just walked up to you. And I said hi there. Nice to meet you. Merrick Rosenberg. What style does that emanate for you?

Marlana: Eagle.

Merrick: Absolutely confident, direct Eagle. But if I said to you, Hi, how are you? It's so nice to meet you. What a pleasure. What do you think?

Marlana: Dove.

Merrick: But if they don't see how you do it instantly, and you just learned it. It's like I get it. Hey, how are you? Nice to meet you. Fantastic. So happy you're here. What do you think?

Marlana: I'm gonna say parrot.

Merrick: Exactly right. Hi! Nice to meet you. Merrick Rosenberg.

Marlana: That would be the owl.

Merrick: Notice how fast you did it is that once you learn these styles, there's an energy to them. And you feel it. It's almost like in a blink moment having just learned them you can still meet somebody and very quickly guess their style. And look, I'll give you a couple examples. Take somebody like Arnold Schwarzenegger, right? The Terminator, the governor, what style is that? Do you think he is I'm gonna say go exactly right. How about Ellen DeGeneres?

Marlana: I'm gonna say eagle.

Merrick: How about Ellen DeGeneres?

Marlana: I was gonna say a cross between a parrot and a dove.

Merrick: Exactly right. I think she's a parrot primary style, dove secondary style. So you notice how you do it. How about somebody like Bill Gates?

Marlana: Definitely owl.

Merrick: Exactly right, Princess Diana?

Marlana: Um! I'm gonna say Dove.

Merrick: Notice how once again, you just learned them. And you intuitively instinctively know their style. And I will tell you this, the more you practice this, the better you get at it, you meet people shake their hand and it's like, got it in seconds. And it's the beauty of learning the birds is that once you know your own style, and can read somebody else's style. Now you know how to flex and adapt and if it's what I call being the chameleon. When you meet them. You can be adaptable and flexible and not impose your style on them, but rather connect to them by birth. writing their style back

Marlana: So, let's say if somebody is an eagle, which is so dominant, connect with somebody and work with and deliver information to somebody who is a dove without running them over

Merrick: You can see the challenge is that the Eagles just very direct, they're calling it like it is. And all of a sudden they've been too direct and now they've offended the dove. Now there's an issue. And sometimes it's a matter of finding that happy medium, somewhere in the middle and look in report personal relationships equals Mary doves most often. Alright, carry out those opposites that are that are so different. They often connect, because we want somebody who is different. But then when we find them, we've got to be able to connect with that. So if you have someone who's an eagle, they probably need to dial down the directness, just a little bit. When you have someone's who is that dove in that relationship. They also need to dial up the acceptance that look when they're being direct. That has nothing to do with me, it's really not, oh, my gosh! Are they mad at me, because they just sent me a one line email. No, they're not mad at you. They're just direct. It's just who they are. So first of all, understanding it removes a lot of the drama, but also finding a happy medium, or it'll be a little less direct, or it'll be a little more direct. We'll meet somewhere in the middle, and it works. And so it really comes back to understanding. But it's amazing how the drama melts away. Once you have that.

Marlana: Is it more difficult for the more dominant personality to dial it back? Or is it more difficult for the less time go back to the eagle and the dove? Is it more difficult for the eagle to dial it back? Or is it more difficult for the dove to speak up?

Merrick: They are equally difficult. It is just as hard for the eagle to communicate in a soft spoken emotional way that's empathetic as it is for the dog to stand in their power and be direct and assertive. It's just as hard for the parrot to dial down some of that energy and enthusiasm as it is for the owl to dial it up. It's just as hard for the owl to dial down the level of detail as it is for the parrot to increase the amount of information they provide. When we work out of our style, it's draining, and it's no more draining for any style. Working out of our style takes energy. And that's true for all of the styles.

Marlana: Is it easier to work with or communicate with someone of a different style or have the same style? If you have two parrots together? And they're both kind of talking at each other? Is that more difficult?

Merrick: You might think that, oh, it'd be just so much easier. If everybody was like me, that would be simple. Yeah, but you're hitting the nail on the head. If you had two parrots, they're battling for airtime. They're having two conversations at the same time. If you have two eagles, they may be battling for authority. I know this is how I'm doing it. Yeah, well, this is what I'm doing. If you have two hours, they may be arguing over the process and the way that it gets done. They may agree about the goal. But it's here's the way that works for me. Well, here's the way that works for me. If you have two Dubs, quite frankly, they're probably not battling it out. They may get upset, but they don't tell you and then they internalize it. And then they wait till it gets super big, and then it explodes. And then they don't do that again for six months.

Marlana:...

Andrew Ryder is a writer and entrepreneur who is reimagining content creation for online educators so they can highlight their uniqueness and build relationships with their audiences. Andrew's work has been recognized by Entrepreneur Magazine for demonstrating leadership in business.

https://www.andrewbryder.com

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Marlana: Andrew Ryder is a writer and entrepreneur who is reimagining content creation for online educators so that they can highlight their uniqueness and build relationships with their audiences. Welcome, Andrew.

Andrew: Hey, Marlana, thanks so much for having me.

Marlana: So that's really the key, isn't it about building relationships with our audience, because I know if we are entrepreneurs, and we are creating content, it's really marketing at its core. And so in the mix there, we have to come up with ideas and create content that people actually want to consume, and still promote ourselves because we are a business well, in a way without feeling icky. So the question is, I'm going to hit you with it all at once. How do we do it? Is it different things or is it all kind of woven into the same thing?

Andrew: For me, it's all woven into the same thing. And perhaps the place to start is in defining what content is, a lot of people think that it's, the first thing that comes to mind would be your social media, or your blog, or maybe even your email list. I also include any paid content, you create courses, coaching, it's really any way that you're communicating with your customer, or your audience or with people who you want to be in your audience, it's going to be the stories that you tell, it's going to be the analogies that you use at any scale, right? If you're doing a social media post, you want to use some kind of analogy or story to teach a lesson, right? But you can still use those same analogies and stories to make a breakthrough in a one on one call with a private client. So everything that you do even down to the color schemes and the graphics and the way that you present your website is content that your audience or your prospective audience is consuming, right? They're going to your website, they're looking at the services, you provide the things that you do, the language that you use, and comparing that to a competitor or to a software solution that claims to solve their problems, right. And so we touched on the idea of creating content that builds relationships. At the end of the day, that's what it comes down to is your prospects, your customers looking at all of these different potential solutions. And they're gonna go with whatever the person who they trust, the most says to do. So if they just came across you, they don't really know anything about you. They've probably been burned in the past, they've made mistakes, they've bought things that aren't what they seem to be, they've gotten ripped off, you know, everybody's gotten ripped off by sleazy online marketer. That's just the reality of the market that we're in today. So what if you build trust with them through your content, and you say, hey, you know, I know you've gone through all these problems, you've had all these issues. Here's what worked for me. I, you know, overcame this, personally, I had all these issues, I figured out how to solve it, and I want to share that with you. If they trust you, they're going to go with your recommendation, even if it's more expensive, even if it's harder, they're gonna go with what you recommend to them, rather than going with something that they don't trust or they don't fully understand. there's really a big there's an immense value in creating trust in your marketing. And I think it's becoming a necessity in the climate that we're in. But I think where people get caught up is content creation is such an interesting aspect of what we do in business. Because if you're sitting down to write, every day, or every time you sit down to write, you're confronting the limitations of, of your knowledge limitations of your understanding. And writing is sort of it's so I have a love hate relationship with it, because some days, I really hate it, because it's just showing me how limited my understanding is and I can't get the right words together. And I just keep thinking, you know, this is not the high enough quality for what I like to produce. What you know why standards are on the other side, it's fun, and you just start pulling together ideas and you get into a flow state and just have this amazing experience and you create something super valuable for your audience. But if you don't structure it in the right way, you end up spending most of your time, just sitting there staring at a blank page, right? You're trying to get some momentum, you're trying to force yourself through it. But there's all these hurdles that come in, you maybe get a couple sentences and you think, you know, no, this isn't the right, this isn't the problem that my audience really struggles with, I'm not using the right language, in this, I'm not speaking to their problems. And you quickly get into this place where you take it out on yourself, and you think I'm not a good writer, I don't have what it takes. Maybe I'm not cut out for this business thing. After all. Those are all thoughts that I've had personally and had a lot. And the solution that I found to all of that was getting away from what I would call traditional content creation advice, which is a lot of content, calendars. It's a lot of templates and swipe files, and, and things that are designed to make content creation, easy. But they end up just making it complicated and making it harder. There's this sort of four quadrant exercises that you can do. And basically you're putting on one axis you're putting, how hard is it is it you know, the spectrum goes from easy to hard, right, and then the other axis that you're comparing against, is ranging from simple to complex, and so on, on one end of the spectrum, you're going to have hard and complex things, those are probably not things that you want to be doing in your business. Or, you know, maybe you want to find a way to take something that's hard and complex and develop a solution. That's easy and simple. Right? So how can you make things easier? How can you make things simpler, but not everything moves in that direction, I have found personally that a lot of content creation advice, templates, content, calendars, those types of things. They try to make it easier, but they end up making it more complicated with having to keep track of a bunch of things and you end up writing things that don't really sound like your voice or using headlines or calls to action that are supposed to be high converting or they're supposed to build a better relationship with your audience, but they feel canned. They feel kind of salesy, you know, a lot of those things, I would be writing these things and thinking to myself, you know, this isn't me, there's no way that this is, like I don't believe these things that I'm saying I'm just doing them because that's supposed to feel like that's supposed to be the best way to do it, or the highest converting way to do it. And I think that's where a lot of people really get that. That feeling of emptiness, or being salesy or inauthentic in their content, is they're trying to do what they think is the quote unquote, right thing to do. But they're not doing the right thing for them. And I think that's a really important distinction to make. And so that's really where I help, specifically, coaches and course creators. Those are the folks that I'm really passionate about helping to, like you said, connect to their uniqueness, and to tell stories and to create content that's really authentic. Because ultimately, that authenticity is what's going to drive that relationship, it's what's going to build the trust, that then makes the sale makes it so much easier too.

Marlana: so if we are, let's say writing our own content, how do we get past the dreaded blank page?

Andrew: I believe that there's more than enough ideas in your life. To have an unending supply of content, there's really two places where a lot of people get hung up. The first is in lacking momentum. So if you are producing content every single day, if you are writing, if you are interacting with your audience, and you are you know actively looking for ideas, you're going to generate more and more ideas just through the act of sitting there and writing and thinking and taking that time to do it. It's difficult to explain in sort of a scientific sense, but I just find personally that the way I structure my morning routine is very specific to try to get me first thing in the morning before I start introducing social media before I start checking email before I introduce my mind to other people's thoughts and other people's hopes and dreams and desires for me. I want to wake up and you know, over the course of sleeping that night, my brain has made a whole bunch of new connections. I've processed all the information from the previous day. I want to take that and I just want to start writing and get into a flow state where I'm just generating ideas and making connections with trying different things and discovering what happened in my brain over the last, you know, 24 hours. And I think so the first thing to do, if you're struggling to come up with ideas, is to make sure you're structuring your time in a way to where you give yourself the freedom to explore things that you may or may not know that, you know, connections that you may not know, that you've made in your brain over the last, you know, over the course of sleeping. And there's a lot of new neuroscience that particularly being done at Stanford that backs up a lot of these things. Andrew Huberman, in particular, as a researcher, Dr. There at Stanford, who's doing a lot of this stuff, not just for the side of content creation, but he's really interested in peak performance. And there's a huge link between performing well, you know, your nutrition, your sleep, your exercise, your ability to focus, and then being able to sit down for an hour or however long you take to write. And to create something, you know, your ability to focus has a huge impact on your ability to create new things.

Marlana: You know, it's interesting that you say that you get up in the morning, and you write, because I remember reading a book years ago called The Artists Way. And that's what they recommended was before you do anything, before you have a sip of coffee, right, just right, for 10, solid minutes. And they said, in doing that every day, you will start to see themes and patterns develop. And, you know, we can always use those to help do what you're saying.

Andrew: Yeah, that's interesting. And I think that, you know, for me, I do a couple of other things before I jumped into riding, but there's also a, so it's going to depend on your circadian rhythm. And there are quizzes that you can take, if you don't know what, basically your circadian rhythm is your internal clock, so it's going to tell you, Okay, it's five o'clock in the morning, it's time to wake up, or maybe it's going to tell you, Okay, it's 11am, it's time to wake up. And depending on your own individual's circadian clock, no, some are longer than 24 hours, which means you're going to end up generally sleeping in and staying up later, some are shorter than 24 hours, which means you'll be an early riser, you'll get up and you do your most productive work first thing in the morning. So one thing that I say all the time is, you really have to know yourself, and you have to know your strengths and your weaknesses. If you are a night owl type of person, you'd be much better off creating your content later in the day, you know, I know, a lot of people who have written their, their books between like midnight, and 3am is when they do all their writing. And to me, that's just unthinkable, you know, I do, I'm the opposite, I do my writing from like six to nine in the morning. And that's, you know, that's the best time for me to think and to focus. So there's free quizzes out there where you can take, figure out what your circadian rhythm is. And there's sort of a, I think a lot of people may think that they are lean more towards the night owl side of things, you have lighter side of things, because of other factors that influence their energy. And, you know, if you just are sort of lazy and you just let yourself sleep in, you're going to start to push your schedule back and go later into the day. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the optimal condition for you to work in. So even if you think that you are a morning person or a night person, you know, it'd be valuable to take one of those quizzes and like I say, you can just Google it and find a whole bunch of them and see what they say and see how it compares to your own experience, and maybe try different routines to see what works best for you.

Marlana: Okay, so now let's say we have some content, we think it's great. How do we, because at the end of the day, it's fine that we think it's great. But what matters more is that our audience thinks it's great. So how do we bridge that gap?

Andrew: I think it's combination of iteration and just prolific publishing. And by that, I mean, for me, it's an email every single day. The more that you can create content, the faster you're going to learn, you know, no one's going to create a perfect article or blog post or social media post every time. Most of the time it's going to be average, right? It's going to be okay. It's going to help a couple of people that you know, maybe are longtime fans, they read all your stuff. But the reality is, a good percentage of your content is going to fall flat. And so it's about how can I get through and find out The best articles right? You create something that you like you post it. And it's like, it's okay. It gets a little bit of response. Yeah, or you gets crickets, right, that's gonna happen. And the key is to just keep publishing because then you're going to find something that gets above average response. You're like, wow, okay, that's an interesting idea. How can I expand on this? What are the comments saying, What can I do to improve this? And then you're gonna get, you know, every once in a while, you're gonna get one that just goes crazy, and everybody loves it. And you look at that, and you think, okay, what are the key points here? What is the language that I'm using? What can I take from this piece of content? And how can I expand that into or expand that piece of content into sub articles? Or how can I expand it into a book or combine it with something else that I've written that also did well, and make a longer form blog posts or something like that. So that's where the iteration side of things comes in is, the more you do it, the more data you get, the more feedback you get from your audience, or from social media, or wherever you're publishing, that's going to tell you what people are interested in. And you can sort of follow that path and continue to expand on what's working and cutting back on what's not working. I guess, there's a word of caution there, though, that I would give is that the greatest visionaries, in our lifetimes have ignored, predominantly ignored market feedback. If you look at someone like Steve Jobs, he didn't say, you know, how can I create a way to listen to a CD on you know, your that, you know, how can I create the next CD ROM, you know, player Walkman, I couldn't think of the word. He didn't try to create a better cassette, right, he wanted to have every single song that you would ever want to listen to, on a small enough device that could go into your pocket. And so he didn't set out to improve what already existed, he set out to create something completely new, something that then when he goes to uni, creates the iPod, and he goes to, to sell it, he says, hey, look, you don't know that you want this, this is going to change the way that you experience life. Because you're going to have every single song that you've ever wanted to listen to with you in your pocket, while you're cooking, while you're doing laundry, while you're driving in your car while you're doing anything in your life or going for a run or you're working out, you can always have that perfect song, ready to go. And he convinced that, you know, everyone is like, yeah, you're right. I don't want another Walkman or a bigger CD carrier, I want an iPod. The same can be said for Henry Ford, you know, the famous quote, he says, "if I'd asked people what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse". But he didn't want to give people what they wanted. He wanted to give them what they needed, which was a safer, faster way to travel. Right? It created, you know, a way to make the automobile widespread. And that changes the course of history. So

Marlana: Let me just jump in, say that we have a product, or we have a service, and we are convinced about that product or service, yet it's new to other people, how do we effectively communicate that in a way that they will understand its value?

Andrew: So this really comes back to leadership, which I would separate into basically three different baskets, it's demonstration, it's what I would call leading by example. So you are going and you are implementing your system, your solution. And you're really just communicating back to back to your audience or to others. Yeah. And you can take this you know, you can go get interviews, on podcasts and talk about it, you can go get magazine articles written about you or you can do whatever kind of press or publicity that you want to share this, but really just documenting the results that you're getting, and the lessons that you're learning as you develop this system. And you know, that comes back to all the things we're talking about the content creation, the market research and the feedback you're getting is definitely important. Don't get me wrong, you want to take that into consideration. But you don't want to just give them you know, a better Walkman or a bigger CD carrier, right? You want to create something completely...

Jude Charles

JudeCharles & Company

Jude Charles is a story-driven filmmaker, brand strategist & speaker.

For over 15 years, he has been producing documentaries for purpose-driven entrepreneurs.

He lives and breathes YOUR brand. He digs deep to find the compelling stories that no one else knows & then leverages those stories to scale your business.

JudeCharles.co/list

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Marlana: Jude Charles is a story driven filmmaker, brand strategist and speaker for over 15 years. He has been producing documentaries for purpose driven entrepreneurs. He lives and breathes your brand. He digs deep to find the compelling stories that no one else knows and then leverages those stories to scale your business. Welcome Jude.

Jude: Marlana! Thank you for having me. It is a pleasure to be on the podcast with you today.

Marlana: Well, thanks. So I know that I have a specific way that I go about telling stories for still images. But I know that you've got your own specific way of doing things. So talk to us a little bit about that.

Jude: Sure. So my specific way that I've developed over the last 15 years, I call it dramatic demonstration of proof. And what that means is instead of you just telling me your story, or you telling me how awesome and amazing you are, what I look for is the truth, I look for a dramatic demonstration. So growing up, I used to watch crime drama tv shows. So if you think of like NYPD Blue or law and order, I used to watch that with my bed. And one thing I loved about watching those kinds of TV shows is that the detectives are always searching for the truth. And very much in the same way I am searching for the truth. I don't just allow the client to tell me, this is their story. This is who they are like I'm pulling on the thread to make sure that what they're saying is the truth. But also when I go to film them when I go to film their stories. Is this truly the way you're telling this story? Is it truly how it's happening. I remember a client that I have in San Diego, his name is Stephan Georgia. And he tells me in our roadmapping session, I do a roadmapping session with a client before and he tells me that, you know, he loves to empower people like he's driven to empower others. But yet, I wanted to see that for myself. And it's funny if you if you ever watched that story with Stephen George I in the first 30 seconds of the video, he's playing a guitar. And then his daughter comes in. And she's screaming, crying at him playing the guitar. But what he does next to me, actually illustrates that he really is a person that loves to empower others that he's not just doing it in his business. But he's also doing it with his daughter, I won't give away exactly how he handles the situation. I encourage listeners to go and watch it. But that, to me is what that's how I tell stories, because the story is about a very, very specific moment in time. And what I'm doing is to bring that story to life through a dramatic demonstration of proof so that others will believe in your story as well.

Marlana: Do you ever have somebody come at you and tell you this is what my story is? And then through speaking with them, you realize that no, that's really not it?

Jude: Yeah, oftentimes, what happens is that people will discount their story. So there's parts of the story, they won't tell, because they think it's not important. And again, that's why I like to dig for the truth. Because once I start digging, and I ask deeper questions, that's when we really get the real story, right? I oftentimes, like a client will tell me something about themselves. And I'll be like, is that really true, though? Is that really who you are like, that doesn't make sense. It doesn't seem like that's what you're motivated by. And when I ask them to go deeper, usually you get to the heart and the core of it. I think, normally what I say to a client is if we're going to work together, the most important thing is you have to be willing to be vulnerable. If you're not willing to be vulnerable, and transparent, this isn't gonna work, your story's not going to come across effectively. People won't believe you they won't like and people won't even tell you that what it is, but they'll be able, like they'll say, something just didn't feel right about this story. And for me, that is what like when someone comes to me and tell me a story like that is what when I'm digging for the truth, and I'm digging deeper, that is it. Like I'm trying to make sure what the story they're telling me is truly their story. And they're really being vulnerable about it.

Marlana: How much of the scars and warts to show?

Jude: Personally, I like to show a lot of it. I think so the clients I work with are at seven and eight figures there. They've built big businesses. Where if you first meet someone, and that's what they tell you is about all about their money that's not very attractive, no matter even if you're a person that wants to follow them as, you know, a leader that's not attractive. And so what I look to show is who they are, I look to make them human. And to me when you show your words, you show your imperfections we all know we're not perfect. When you show that you show that you've gotten to the point of success.

Marlana: Despite your imperfections, I think that is what's more inspiring.

Jude: Is that is that specifically and I do the same thing in my business, right. So like, recently, I write an email. And recently I talk about depression, burnout and anxiety. I had to go through that in 2020 2021. And I'm still going through today in 2022. And I talk about that, and I was specifically mentioned that, hey, I'm not saying this. So I can get your pity, saying this so that you can understand, although I've built a successful business, there are still challenges, right? And you can succeed as well, despite the challenges that you have in your life, real life is always going to happen. But if you can be inspired by another person and knowing that they got through it, even if you're not going through the exact same thing, you know, they got through it. That means you can get through it too.

Marlana: Right. So I know, for me, what it looks like and feels like when I know that I've hit on the right story. What does it look like and feel like for you?

Jude: That's a great question. I am always trying to figure that out, because I think I'm working on a docu series now, with a client named Darren yo. The Docu series is called move to moving millions and the story, the way that I'm crafting the story, I don't know how I always hit on the right hook. Or even as I'm making choices in the edit, right when I'm working with my editing team, like how do I know this is the right story to tell?

Jude: It's a tough question. It's a tough question. And honestly, for me, it's a gut feeling. It's a gut feeling that as this person is telling me the story, like I'm feeling something I know the audience will feel it too. And I think that is that's truly the only way I know how to answer that is it's a gut feeling. And it's a challenge that this person is going through the they're telling me in their story. And now I'm moved by it, someone else may be moved by too. And it's a, it's interesting, because I test the stories out before they ever go live. Like I have someone watching give me feedback. Someone that's not connected to the story at all, doesn't know the client doesn't. They know me, we're friends, but they're not connected. And it's always interesting to see their facial reactions as they're listening to the story. And so I don't know, I think it's a lot of feedback. I think it's a lot of I've been studying storytelling since I was eight years old. I used to lock myself in a room and write 100 page books. And I think because of that fascination with storytelling, like over 20 years now. It's just a gut feeling that I've been able to hone over the years to get to that point where it's like, that's the right story to tell.

Marlana: What do you think has been the most compelling story that you have told up to now?

Jude: Oh, great question. The most compelling story that comes to mind again, is Darren yo. Darnielle, Jerry Harmon is a business coach. And there's a part of her story where we tell and her first Docu series where she is on a journey to motherhood. She got married at 42 and at the time, had never had children. And, you know, tries to have children with her husband, but it hasn't gone well. But yet, despite too bad rounds of IVF and having a miscarriage, she builds a nursery and is in anticipation for the child to come or children to come. And to me that as a move of faith and courage. That despite the gift is not there yet. She has prepared the space for the gift. And I think that's one story that's very inspiring. Another one is Steve Harvey. I think Steve Harvey the comedian now entertainer. Thank you. So everywhere. He's a little bit everything now. Yeah, we worked together in 2013 when he was releasing his book act like a success think like a success. And I've never really known his story before then. But I heard an old audio tape of him telling his story. He talks about how he was on the road before he ever reached success. He was on the road to doing comedy shows because he just was trying to find his big hit. And what I didn't know is at the time that he was on the road, he was homeless. So he didn't have a place to stay. He lived out of his car. But he was just following after his dream and there was one day that he was cleaning up and bathrooms he used to clean up in bathrooms at the whole at hotels wherever whatever city he's in. And there was one day this hotel specifically had a conference and he didn't want people to see him washing up in the hotel room so he was trying to wait for the people to go through the bathroom and you know wait it out so that they wouldn't see him a washing himself with the guys kept coming in. It's been two hours they just kept coming in. He couldn't get a break. And so he sat on the edge of the toilet and he cried and he thought Tim. So if you know what I'm just I'm going to call my bed, I'm going to call my dad 11. No, I look, I just want to come home, this isn't working out. This is not what I thought it would be. And he said, he heard the voice of God and God voice of God told him, if you just do one more show, I'll take you to places that you've never been in shows that you've that you've never experienced before. And after that moment, he got the call to do the Showtime at the Apollo. It was the very next day, he did the show that he was going to do in that city. And then he got the call for Showtime at the Apollo and it was literally Showtime at the Apollo that that allowed him to reach the success that he's reached today. And I think that's an inspiring story for me, because honestly, I've been an entrepreneur for 15 years, but I don't think that I've never been homeless. And I don't think that I would continue after being homeless. I think that that's where my limit is, and to see the success that he's had, and to know like, he was homeless for three years, but now he's made it that to me is an inspiring story that that I carry with me every day.

Marlana: Hmm, love that. So let's say someone like Steve Harvey tells you that story or you write out a story or whatever it may be. How do you take that? And make it come to life in a video?

Jude: Sure. So with Steve Harvey, we did it. The behind the scenes that we were filming is him releasing the book launch, right. And there's these people who are excited to see him excited to get an autograph version of his book. So that's how we did it with the Steve Harvey story with the Darnielle. It is her telling the story within you're seeing her in the nursery. You're seeing different shots of a nursery, and then you're seeing her she's, she talks about sitting in the room, she prays in the room every morning, because she's just waiting on this gift from God. And so I'm looking for what I call dramatic elements. There's five different ones, there's behind the scenes, social proof, live illustration, a transformation and unique mechanism. And when I'm looking for those five, those are common marketing terms. But again, I'm looking to show the visual elements of it. So with behind the scenes, it's literally like I'm a fly on the wall, this moment is happening. You're seeing it the same way I'm seeing with social proof. We're used to that term with testimonials and customer stories. Well, I'm looking at how do people physically react to talking with you, or talking about you like if someone holds their hand against their chest, that means like, oh, there's a heartfelt moment that's happening, if they have a big smile on their face, that means they're actually enjoying talking to you. So I'm looking for those. With social proof. I'm looking for those key moments. With live illustration. Oftentimes, the story is already happened. So now I'm looking at how do I recreate this story with objects or with people, I did this with an interior designer once where the interior designer mentioned, construction is like a puzzle. Or putting together a home is like a puzzle. So I literally x the firm, hey, can we get a big puzzle and show the entire team putting the puzzle together? Right? That brings it to life in a way from just taking it from like, construction is like a puzzle, which theoretically, you understand, I brought it to life so that you could see it. Transformation is all about before and after. We're used to that with fitness, right? Like you see someone who may be 300 pounds, and then they lose 100 pounds. And so there's a big dramatic shift. But what I look for is life after that, just the shift that there's a before and after. But what is life after look like? Again, the best way to illustrate that, that I've heard in the past, I didn't create this story. But it's a woman who's a fitness coach, and she receives a picture from her client. And the picture is the client getting on a plane, it's an empty plane, and she's getting on the plane. And in the text messages says this is the first time in my 40 years of living, I haven't had to ask for a seatbelt extension. That's life after not just losing the weight or putting on nice jeans, it's being able to go on a plane and not have to export seatbelt extension. And then unique mechanism is what is it that makes you unique. What makes you different. As a characteristic. Sometimes it is like a system or a process. But I think as leaders and CEOs of companies, there's something about you, you're the leader, you're the person that's driving this company forward. I want to show that and I want to bring that to life. Like I want people to really get to know who you are all your quirks, all your flaws, all the little things that you do maybe the preparations that you do right before you go on stage. That's unique mechanism. So again, I'm visually showing all these things so that it comes to life in a way that people will truly feel and experience your story. They're not just listening to it.

Marlana: Hmm. You know, I know that. People, for example, like Donald Miller, talk about, don't be the hero of your story. You want to be the guide to your story. So how do you navigate that where you're telling the story of this individual, but you're not making them the hero of the story?

Jude: I think for me, I focus a lot on just the specific moment in time. I don't know that I necessarily focus on whether or not I make them the hero. I think I focus on what do other people have to say about him? And how do they physically react? Right? Oftentimes, the entrepreneur is the hero of the story that you're looking at, because it's their story, right? Like, it's their journey. But I also look at when I'm showing their quirks and their flaws. I'm also looking at the other side of it when people are talking about them. And people talk about their quirks and their flaws. I mentioned Stephen Georgia earlier. Stephen Georgia is a copywriter and entrepreneur. And he has one friend specifically who's like, you know what, Stephen is a quirky dude, he's 30 years old, but he looks like he's in a 90 year old buddy, right? Like, he's an older guy. He has a lot of wisdom. But in he says that he's weird and quirky. And he was like, you have to be though, as an entrepreneur, as a copywriter, you have to be. And I think it's that again, when I'm searching for the truth. I'm not just looking for everybody to talk about how great you are. I'm looking for them to talk about the things that make you different the thing, the quirks that you have, that some people wouldn't appreciate. And then we talk about how great you are, I think, because I don't just include the entrepreneur and their own story. That is a way for me not to just make them the hero of the story, but showing how other people respond to who they are. There's another person in Stephens Docu series who talks about Stephen being a family man. And he says in the Docu series, how like, he's inspired by that. But Stephen loves his wife, he loves his daughter,

Ben Baker

Your Brand Marketing

Over the last 25 years I have helped my clients tell their stories. Enabling them to communicate not only what they do, but why the do it, for whom and enabling those who listen to understand the value to them.

Currently, we work with large to enterprise-level companies to help them tell their story effectively inside their organization. To stem the tide of the great resignation, dismantle silos and create better and more aligned teams who believe in the mission, vision and value of the company.

www.yourbrandmarketing.com

www.communicateyourwhy.com

www.podcasthostforhire.com

https://www.linkedin.com/in/yourbrandmarketing/

www.youtube.com/gettingyounoticed

www.podcasthostforhire.com

www.yourbrandmarketing.com/ebooks

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio: Ariza Music Productions

Transcript : Vision In Word

Marlana: Over the past 25 years, Ben Baker has helped his clients tell their stories, enabling them to communicate not only what they do, why they do it, for whom, and enabling those who listened to understand the value to them. Welcome, Ben!

Ben: Hey! Marlana. Thank you for having me on the show. It is a pleasure talking to you again.

Marlana: Well, so let's talk about telling an effective story. Because we all know that we need to tell our story. But how do we make it effective? Where do we even start?

Ben: Well, the one thing we need to first understand is, our story's not about us. It's about the people that we affect. And it's about getting people to listen to us to understand the value to them and compelling them to engage or to act or whatever we want them to do. And it's about bringing them into the story, getting them to see it from their first point of view, getting them to understand how that story relates to them. And they can stick a Oh, okay, I haven't done this. But yeah, I've done something similar. And I can see how that relates to this. And all of a sudden, they internalize it, and when they internalize it, they can recall it. And they can retell it in their own words. And that's when the story becomes powerful. But when all we do is make it, I did this, and I did that, and I did the everything. Nobody cares. It's like, Yoh! I woke up, I made a million dollars, and I retired. Who cares? Tell me the story that went along with it. And tell me the lessons you learned and make it relevant to me. And I'm going to care about it.

Marlana: So then, what are some good starting points for us?

Ben: I think the first thing you do is understand who your audience is, because your story is your story. I mean, let's look at a corporate story. You know, your brand marketing started 15 years ago, we started for specific reason, you know, we had specific challenges, we had an idea, we had customers, it evolved, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And here we are today. And you know, we can get into that story. But that's what's relevant. I'm going to tell the story differently to you, as I'm going to tell it differently to a CEO, as I'm going to tell it to an operations manager, a technology officer, whoever, because they care about different things. And we need to make it relevant to the person and sit there say, okay, what are the analogies that I'm going to use that are relevant to this audience that that's in front of me, you know, how am I going to make this to a point where they're sitting up and go, Oh, I get that. And telling that story differently to different people, is what makes it relevant. The theme is the same, the lessons are the same. But you know, sometimes you can make it shorter, sometimes you can make it longer. Sometimes you can have more detail, sometimes less. Sometimes you're going to use, you know, this analogy instead of that. But you know, the goal is to sit there and say, Okay, who is this person? What do they care about? What's important to them? What's their frame of reference? Okay, now let's tell the story in a way that's going to be relevant to them and get them nodding.

Marlana: And, you know, I love all that, because even when it comes to photographs, I think people don't realize how important it is to know your audience and what they need to know. And tailor your message and your images because it all wraps into one package to tell an effective story. And the other thing too, I think a lot of people don't realize the importance of drilling down to tell that story. Because let's face it, the internet is a crowded, noisy arena. And you can walk into it and zillion people are all shouting at the same time. And the only way that you're going to get your message heard by the right people is to basically I'm going to say call them by name. Not that you're necessarily naming them. But if I walk towards you, and I keep saying a message that relates to you, it's in effect, calling your name. And so that way, I'm moving toward you and I'm directing it towards you. And eventually not only will you hear it, but your sphere of influence will also hear it

Ben: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, first of all, your pictures tell amazing stories.

Marlana: Oh! Thank you!

Ben: And how I deal visualize those stories and how another person visualizes those stories. It's different, and how we emotionally connect to start. And I'm sure there's images that I look at it. Oh, yeah, that's okay. And there's pictures I look at they go wow! That's cool. But somebody else is going to have the complete opposite effect. And that's what's really neat, is that, you know, our stories will affect different people in different ways. Now, let's get back to the crowded effect of the internet. And what it is, doesn't matter if it's internet, it doesn't matter if it's, you know, creating an ad, or a TV, commercial or whatever, you're only going to affect the people that you can affect. Their 7.5 billion people in this world. If you can affect 1/10 of 1% of the world, you've done an amazing job. And you could probably be a billionaire. You know if you could affect and have 1/10 of 1% of the world. So, there we go… Oh my God! Marlana is amazing! I need to buy everything that I'm highlighting is God, yo, I'm just gonna send her money. And I'll worry about when this stuff appears, you're gonna do extremely well. So, it's about understanding, first of all, who your audience is, and mostly who they're not. Because there are the vast majority of the people in the world 99.9% of those people could care less about you, could care less about your product, could care less about your story, could care less about that, because you can't help them, or they don't perceive you can help them. And you'll The trick is to find the people that are part of your tribe, and the Seth Godin is you'll find your tribe, find your Minimal Viable audience, find the people that are passionate about the things that you're passionate about, see the value that you bring to the table. And those are the people that will retell your story for you.

Marlana: What about the people that say, Well, I serve everyone, or I have something for everyone. But we'll just say,

Ben: let me be blunt, everybody with a heartbeat, and a Visa card is not your client. When you have that mentality that I serve everyone that I can be everyone to everybody, you're no one to know what, you know, it's realizing that you'll be valuable to not be a commodity, to not be one of many to be a quote on a page, you know, to be the person that people sit there go, Marlana, you know, I know you're $10,000 more than the other photographer, but I don't care, I need you, you're speaking to a very specific audience, and sit there going, these are the people that I can serve. These are the people I add value to, these are the people that I can help. And everybody else Hey, listen, if you want to read my content on LinkedIn, fill your boots. But I know you're never gonna buy from me, and I'm not going to pay a lot attention to you. Because I know you are not the people that are going to see the value in what I do. If all you are is a commodity, you are easily replaced, you are easily forgotten. And eventually, all you are is another quote three, and maybe you're going to win it on price. Maybe you're not the next time somebody is going to be cheaper. And you're going to be out.

Marlana: Yeah, it's so important not to get involved in that race to the bottom. And I think a lot of people are afraid to hear no, because they take it as a rejection. And it's really not a rejection. It's somebody has eliminated themselves. Either you didn't communicate your value, or they have eliminated themselves for the Yes. So, let's dive into the you haven't communicated your value, right? How do we do that effectively?

Ben: It's interesting, because when I first started off in sales 30 or 35 years ago, I worked for Xerox, and they give you a mentor. When you walk in, you get it, you get a sales mentor, somebody who walks through and says this is Ben, you need to know the difference between now and not now. No means you know what? We don't need this. You'll think and it's those people. Thank you very much. Thank you for not wasting my time. I appreciate it. Now I can focus on somebody else. The not now may sound like a no, but what it is you haven't given them enough reason to say yes. And it's a matter of being able to dive down and realize, wait a second here. Can I truly help these people? And have I not done a good enough job myself? To give them reason to say yes because it's easy for people to say no. It's easy. Peoples just say, You know what, I've got too much on my plate. There's too much going on. I don't have time to deal with it. I don't have my bandwidth. I've got 1000 Other things on my plate. Yeah, I don't want to look at this. No. And that's easy. But the question is, have you given people reason to sit? There's got lazy, that could help me. I don't have time for this right now. But that could help me. I'm willing to listen a little bit more. I don't I'm not saying yes right now, but that can help. And it's a matter of telling that story and you can't tell your story just once. You need to be able to tell it over and over and over again in ways and little drips, people let people sit there go, oh, oh, oh. Oh, okay. And you know, that's the trick is to be able to, you'll realize what have you missed telling somebody that could be that one relevant piece of information that helps them say yes. And you know what, that's far less about talking? And far more about listening?

Marlana: When we are dealing with people on the internet, how do we effectively listen to them?

Ben: You know, I am a big believer of I spend an enormous amount of time reading other people's posts and responding to other people's posts. It's not just plugging my stuff and just say there, here's another post by Ben, here's another post by Ben, here's the only post by Ben, I do that daily, every single day, I put thought content on the world. And guess what, I'm one of less than 5% of the of the world that does that. So, when you do that, when you actually are putting consistent thought practices out there, you're differentiating yourself. However, the big thing is to be able to sit there and look at people's posts of people that you know, and people that you don't know, reading through their posts and sit there go, wait a second here. I can add value here. It's not another me to type comment, or Yeah, yeah, that's cool, or whatever. It's like, you don't What have you thought of things this way. Or, you know, what, I had some experience with this, and this is what I learned. Or, you know, what I'd like, you know, don't shoot the messenger. But this is, you know, this is what I've seen. And I really don't think you're looking at the right way. And this is why. And if we can create intelligent conversation by listening to the other person first reading their stuff, and referencing back to it, instead of just slamming them on the internet, you know, what we're gonna gain their respect. And all of a sudden, they're just figuring Who is this Ben Baker, he feels over the last month, he I don't know who this person is. But they've responded to about 10 of my posts, maybe I should go look at their profile, maybe I should find out who they are. And all of a sudden, this person starts commenting on your posts, all of a sudden, this person starts sharing your information, all of a sudden, this person starts wanting to connect with you and say, um, Ben, do you have 30 minutes that we can pick up a phone and have a conversation? And, you know, that takes work? It takes effort, it takes caring. And that's the big thing today is nobody cares anymore. Everybody is out for themselves. Everybody's looking for the quick buck everybody's looking for how can I do this easy to do social media? Well, it's hard. It takes effort. And it takes consistency. And it takes real, baring your soul to some degree. And the people that are willing to do that are going to build some incredible relationships that are going to turn into some very serious work. But if all you're doing is, you know, doing drive bys, quick, quick hits and leaving. Nobody's gonna pay attention to you because you're not paying attention to that.

Marlana: And you know, you hit on something. Because at the end of the day, that's exactly what we're doing, we are building relationships. And if you those take time, any good ones take time. And if you are not looking at it in that regard, and not putting the time into it, you're already fighting an uphill battle, because you're just not going to get where you hope to get.

Ben: Yeah. I mean, you and I met on LinkedIn. We met on the day; I don't remember how; I don't remember when. It's been a while; it's been well over. I mean, I think it's pre COVID, you and I met. So, I mean, that's how we measure times, you know, pre COVID After Covid. But we've had an enormous number of conversations, both online and offline. And you've shared stuff of mine, I've shared stuff of yours. You've commented on my stuff, I've commented on yours. We've built a level of trust. And that doesn't come overnight. I mean, I tell people that trust takes time to build. It's easily broken. And it's really, really hard to fix once that trust is broken. So, we need to sit there and say forget about the 10th out I mean, yeah, okay, I've got 10,000 people on my LinkedIn profile, who cares? I've got maybe 200 people that I truly connect with on a very regular basis, though, those are my gold standard. Those are the platinum people. Those are the people that I pay attention to on a regular basis, and they pay attention to me. You can't do that. 10,000 people if this is your relationships and that kind of stuff. Just don't scale. And it's those 200 people that give me all my work that give me all my connections, that give me all, you know, that are the people that share a know, like and trust thing. And by concentrated on those people, that's how I've made a living, and now I built relationships.

Marlana: So, what if we aren't quite sure what our story is? How do we start to dive into that? Because, you know, I've encountered so many people, even with what I do that say, Well, I'm just like everybody else, or I don't really have a story. And, you know, part of my job is to mine down into it a little bit. But how do you do it?

Ben: Yeah, first of all, everybody's got a story. Your six-year-old has a story, your six-year-old story is much shorter, far more condensed and a lot simpler than somebody who's 95 years old. Because they just don't have the tapestry. They don't have the years, they don't have the mileage, they don't have the scars. But we all have a reason that we do what we do. You know, I authored a book in 2018, called Powerful Personal Brands, a Hands-on Guide to Understanding Yours. And it's all about understanding who you are, what you do, and why you do it. And at the end of every chapter, I asked a question, and I leave two pages of line boats for people to write their own question, you know, the right answers. You know, but really, it's about understanding, why do you do what you do? What do you care about? You know, if you were going to see one movie 100 times, what would that movie be? And why? Who were the three teachers that you had? You know that that influenced you growing up through high school? And what did they really teach you? Never mind that they were math, social science, and chemistry? What did they really teach you? You know, what is the hardest thing that you ever did in your life? You know, whether you succeeded, or you failed? What did you learn from it? And how has it made you better? You know, we all have a story to tell. It's a matter of sit there going, what is my life been. And some of us have had more hardship, some of us have things easier than others. But we've all had challenges in our life, we've all had things that we've learned about. We've all met people in our lives that have changed our lives. And that's the start of your story. And as you...

Dr. Hoby Wedler

Hoby's Essentials

Biography

Dr. Hoby Wedler is an insightful, disarming, and passionate thinker who loves to bring people together to help them see new possibilities. With the heart of a teacher, Hoby helps turn your dreams into realities. Hoby has been completely blind since birth. He is a scientist, an entrepreneur, a sensory expert, and is driven by his passion for innovative, creative, and insightful thinking. Hoby is remarkably tuned into his surroundings and has frequently chosen to walk the unbeaten paths in life over known territories. In 2016, Hoby earned his Ph.D. in organic chemistry from UC Davis. His fearlessness is infectious, and he has actively paved the way for others to join him in his quest to follow passions regardless of the challenges that lie ahead.

In 2011, Hoby founded a non-profit organization to lead annual chemistry camps for blind and visually impaired students throughout North America. In the same year, he began opening doors to the world of wine aromas by developing Tasting in the Dark, a truly blindfolded wine experience, in collaboration with the Francis Ford Coppola Winery. He has since expanded the program to a global market in a variety of industries and special projects. Over the years, Hoby has become a motivational speaker, a mentor, and an educator. He is also committed to making the world an inclusive, equitable, and accessible place for everyone.

In his work, you will find a unique trilogy between sensory awareness, scientific knowledge, and a love for sharing his insights.

Numerous people and organizations have recognized Hoby's work over the years. To name a few, President Barack Obama recognized Hoby by naming him a Champion of Change for enhancing employment and education opportunities for people with disabilities. Also, Forbes Media named Hoby as a leader in food and drink in their 30 under 30 annual publication. Hoby's dedicated to impacting everyone he works with by unlocking doors, overcoming challenges, increasing awareness, and expanding their horizons.

www.hoby.com

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www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcript : Vision In Word

Marlana: Today's guest is truly incredible. Dr. Hoby Wedler loves to bring people together to help them see new possibilities. With the heart of a teacher, he helps turn your dreams into realities, completely blind since birth. He is a scientist and entrepreneur and a sensory expert. He's dedicated to impacting everyone who works with unlocking doors, overcoming challenges, increasing awareness, and expanding their horizons. Welcome Hoby!

Hoby: Marlana, thank you so much for this honor, I really appreciate it. It's an exciting opportunity to chat with you. You know, we talked a few weeks ago, I think we have so much in common, and we're both artists at heart, and there's just so much to talk about.

Marlana: Well, you know, I have to tell everybody listening that I have made my life as a photographer, so, I've made it through what I see, and you have taught me how to see differently. Because I think so many of us rely on simply what we see. And we judge by what we see, we assess by what we see. And we forget that we have other senses. And when I watch the way you create experiences, whether it be for yourself or for others, you make them so full and rounded. So how do you go about that?

Hoby: Yeah, you know, I think that for someone who's actually lacked one sense, which is the sense of eyesight, for my whole life, you know, I really do have a different approach to how I take life and how I live life, you know, it's about embracing the non-visual senses that we have, but creating opportunities out of those senses that create that same joy and pleasure and evoke, you know, happiness, basically, because it's not about for me, life isn't about, oh, is me, I can't see, I can't take stuff in, I need all this help, you know, my job is harder, because I'm blind. It's like, know how I am going to figure out how to be the best possible blind person I can be. And, you know, experience life through the non-visual senses, you know, really stopping and listening to birds that are chirping outside or smelling the air and just being happy that I'm alive. And that I'm in this, this air in this area where I am. And you know, eyesight allows us to really move so quickly through the world. And I feel stressed out just like, you know, analysis. And sometimes I feel like I don't have time. And if you're busy and I certain situations happen, or I'm just totally, you know, running through the world and trying to get things done. But I think that ultimately being blind, lets me slow down a little more than other people, sometimes get the opportunity to, and observe things that that maybe people don't necessarily get to observe on a day-to-day basis. And that's how I sort of view the world with you experiences that I create. So, one of my favorite things to do is to not use before for game or anything like that. But bring people together. And let the Turley wear a blindfold and engage in something that I created with Francis Ford Coppola, a movie director, back in 2011, called Tasting In the Dark. I developed it with him for wine, but I've since expanded it to many different industries in many different markets around the world. And what would I say about that? When we temporarily remove eyesight, we are really able to focus in on our other senses so much more. And when we use our vision or eyesight to obtain 85 to 90% of the information we take in from our surroundings when we take it away. It's not about oh, what does this taste like? I mean, it's kind of is we have fun with that, right? But it starts so much earlier than that. It's okay. What are we, you know, what does this chair feel like? We mean, what are we talking about when we're not distracted by our eyesight? What other information can we take in that we didn't even think was possible? And that's really exciting. That's my way of generating experiences for everybody to sort of understand and go back and I didn't realize I was doing this since I was a child. I've really been developing my palate, my ability to observe different flavors and aromas and textures and I'm particularly done in understanding they are. So basically, really have a library of flavors and aromas in my mind that are individual. And then when something's a blend of many different flavors, I can really break it down and pull out the components that you know that really, really contribute the individual components. And I'm able to talk about those and talk through them to the best of my ability. So that's a lot of fun.

Marlana: So, in either two things, but one, I'll ask you now and then the other one we'll get to. So, tell us a little bit more about Tasting In the Dark. And also too, because I had heard about the experience of Dave Matthews, tell us about that.

Hoby: Yeah, sure! Tasting In the Dark is really just an experience where people get to engage and understand their non visual senses for a while for anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour, or sometimes even longer than that depending and really delve into what something is what happens when we remove our eyesight, but really, what ends up happening is that we're able to focus in hole in on our other senses, so much more than we would be otherwise. You know, and we can talk about flavor people pick up flavors that they never would have gained, and we don't necessarily tell them what the wine or food or drink of any type that their tasting is, you know, we literally just, we let them taste it and explore it on their own. And we use aromatics. Basically, samples that I develop ahead of time to help people really develop their aromatic vocabulary, Scheibel understand wines that we are tasting and working with ahead of time. And then people will be able to smell and understand what lemon by itself smells like, what does vanilla smell like, by itself, you know, things that I pull out of the wines, maybe three to five different aromas that I'll make individual samples of. So, people can smell these, and I like to say, sort of calibrate or exercise their aromatic vocabulary. So here are a few things that we're smelling by themselves. And the task is going to be can we pull these out of the wines when we smell them and taste them. And then we smell the bad food or beverage. In this case, I'll just use wine as my example, for a while and really talk about everything we smell. And finally, we taste it. And we talk about everything we taste, and just analyses it together as a group and people that think, Oh, I'm not that good with my sensory, you know, describing things find, usually, for me anyway, when they put a blindfold on, they're very capable, and they become so strong at understanding, you know, different aromas, different things that they maybe wouldn't be able to pick up on, because they would be distracted by their eyesight. And when we don't tell people what a wine is, again, just using wine as an example, here. Sometimes people will come to me and say, I don't like Chardonnay. And then they'll do this experience and say, Oh, my gosh, this wine is delicious. I would love this; I would totally buy this. What is this wine? Well, you'd be surprised to know that it's Chardonnay. And we show people that maybe sometimes they're their preconceived notion of what they like, he's only based on Oh, I see the bottle, I see that sharpening, I'm gonna immediately decide that I don't like sharp knife for whatever reason, maybe we don't need to put up these walls and these barriers around what we do. And that's really exciting to just sort of open people's minds and change what certain beverages mean to them.

Marlana: And I know that you added in the element of music at one point, which

Hoby: we've done a few times. So, I will talk about the Dave Matthews experience for sure. You know, the Culinary Institute of America are sometimes known as the CIA's cooking school. And I work as an adjunct faculty for their properties here in California. And people have learned over the years that whenever they want something really strange, they call Hoby. I'm gonna be figuring out weird things to do that hopefully are fun for people. So, in this case, we were they basically were doing a summit for beverage professionals and most of the people who attended this are selling games, people who really understand wine or even Masters of Wine and some beer people, some spirits people for sure, but definitely a lot of wine people and they want to do a disco at the end of the first day of the conference, a basically a silent meeting. disco when people wear headphones and go around listening to music and tasting wines, and they rank their favorite wine based on music that's playing in their ears, right? They listen to different music, and they rank wines differently. And they said, We want something to do with wine and music the hour before we do this, this discount. That's interesting. You know, who's someone who does wine and music really well? Well, Dave Matthews has a winery dreaming tree wines, and they're very good wines. Very much available pretty much nationwide. So, I thought, you know, most people are gonna know what this is, and let's see if we can do an experience around it. And I'm always the person who says, Well, what's the worst they can do? They can say no. So, I decided I would just take a shot in the dark and email Dave's winemaker man named Sean McKenzie, saying, Sean, you know, I do this tasting in the dark programme. I've been asked to do an experience your own wine and music. I would love to do an experience where we take wines from the Dave Matthews or from the dreamy tree portfolio and pair them with songs from the Dave Matthews songbook. Is this something you'd be amenable to? And expected? I don't know. I didn't know if I would hear back from him. I just didn't know. 30 minutes later, I got an email back saying Hoby Yes! Absolutely! Let's have a call. We had a call and it's like, Okay, wow. And then he said, Okay, well, why don't we come to the winery, and we'll taste the wines, we'll decide what we're working with here. And in the meantime, we'll talk to Dave about songs. So, Dave weighed in on songs, it was ultimately our decision, but Dave weighed in on what he thought would be best. And lo and behold, you know, we built out this whole experience where we talked about wine and music with people, it's about 200 people in the audience. And then while people were under blindfold, for some of them, the last one, we actually I'm removed the blindfold and just moved to the music and the music video that we showed, but we paired five ports of line with five different songs from the Dave Matthews songbook and the sort of climax if you will, the experience was wise three and four, were for wine three, you know, we serve wine with them, you know, with a piece of music that was sort of very, very happy, very, you know, kind of a romantic piece of music, a little bit of a love song, you know, kind of it's just fun. People tasted the wine and suddenly at the end we talked about what the wine tastes like. It was very citrusy, very fruit forward, you know, a lot of floral components smells like something I'd want to drink in the summertime. And then we played with wine. Sorry, I think that was wine I said wine for, but I think that would that was wine three with the next wine. We played a company of sort of gritty song that was just more you know, work hard and you'll get what you wish for and you know, keep on trying, keep on pushing but not that same sort of happy go lucky, sort of tune and I wouldn't describing non phase music is happy but luckily but I'm trying to try to figure out the right words here to describe the music and people tasted the wine and talked about its minerals, how they could smell some fruit but you could smell granite in it, you can smell the basically wet earth Wow, this is just full of minerals almost like you might hear describing a wine from like a Rosie from Provence, France, you know, really just very minerals, very rich, very full of full of flavor. And started from basically anywhere in the south of France. I didn't mean to call out Provence as a as a region in in and of itself. But anyone who's sort of in the south of France, you might find really minerally either red wines or Ramsay's people did identify the third wine as a Rosie. They said for the fourth wine man, this might be a red blend, like, it's got so much minerality it might also be an old-world white wine. They just didn't know. What we didn't tell people is it the fourth wine was exactly the same as the third one, it was just the same dreaming tree Rosie The only thing that was different and they couldn't see it, right, that helped to literally the only variable that was different was the music they listen to. And I was doing this to show people how much music can impact anything for that matter, can totally impact the experience, the overall experience of why.

Marlana: love that. And, you know, it's so incredible to me that people thought it was a completely different thing just because of adding that music.

Hoby: Yeah. That's amazing. You know, I mean, I guess for just thinking about your work as a photographer, you can make something look totally different, even if it's the same exact set or same exact thing you're photographing using different light, right? By the way, you edit something.

Marlana: Yeah. It kind of boils down to what we want people to see and experience. And so, with what you do, and even with what I do, we are leading them on a journey. And we already have their destination, hopefully in mind.

Hoby: Exactly. So, this is what art is to me. You know, everybody says art is visual? Well, it certainly can be, and you're a great producer of visual art. But art doesn't have to be visual, you know, exactly what you say we lead people on a journey we guide them through. And you know, we help them see things they didn't see before.

Marlana: Absolutely. And, you know, I want to talk a little bit about, because I follow your Instagram, and these places that you go to and you experience, you make people feel like they are there and immersed with you. So, when you embark on an experience of your own, how do you approach something? Let's say you go to the Swiss Alps for the first time, how do you start?

Hoby: Yeah, you know, it's funny, I don't, the way that I start is, I don't even think about it, I just describe to anyone who wants to hear how I'm experiencing it. And it kind of grabs them usually and pulls them into it. Because the way that I experience things and describe them is not visual, you know, what I found with people who are very sort of focused on what they see, it's hard for them to describe something and make it almost feel like you're there. Because they're really paying attention to the visual, which they can then explain and you know, that which works fine, but it's talking about maybe green hills, rather than, whoa, what do we smell? What's the overall experience around us? Like, what are we gaining from this environment, this experience, you know, where we are right now? You know, how are we it's a really interesting question. And I haven't thought about the answer to what you're asking, Where do I start, but you know, and when I think about it, I say that I don't think about it at all, but I do try to try to...

Monique Russell, Clear Communication Solutions, LLC and Monique Russell

Monique Russell is the global communications expert you want on your team. She teaches women leaders and teams how to have positive and productive relationships at home and work using effective communications tools and strategies.

Passionate about serving Black and Women Employee Resource Groups, organizations like Amazon, Microsoft, Google, the Centers for Disease Control, Verizon, Intel, Equifax, and the world's busiest airport, Atlanta Hartsfield Jackson International, trust Monique to guide them in implementing communication strategies that foster connection, community, creativity, and courage. You can too. Monique has 20 years of experience in the science of Communications and leads Clear Communication Solutions – an international training, coaching, and consulting firm that focuses on confidently communicating from the inside out. She is the author of the Ultimate Speaker's Guide and the book Intentional Motherhood: Who Said it Would Be Easy, and host of the Bridge to U podcast. Connect with her on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/clearcommunicationcoach Subscribe to the podcast: Bridge to U Visit her website: www.clearcommunicationsolutions.com

The Ultimate Speaker's Guide: https://payhip.com/b/PETv

Likes to Loves Assessment: https://payhip.com/b/fER4

Intentional Motherhood: Who Said It Would Be Easy: https://payhip.com/b/4hMI

Bridge to U Podcast: https://bridgetou.buzzsprout.com/

www.MoniqueRussell.com

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcript :Vision In Word

Marlana: Monique Russell is a global communications expert. She teaches women leaders and teams how to have positive and productive relationships, using effective communication tools and strategies that foster connection, community creativity and courage or confidently communicating from the inside out. Welcome, Monique.

Monique: Thank you for having me, Marlana. I'm excited to be on the show.

Marlana: here's the thing, we can have the best message, we can believe in what we're doing. But if we cannot communicate that clearly, we're in trouble. So, talk to us about how do we do that?

Monique: Well, I think the first thing we have to think about is considering all aspects of ourselves. I think the time where people where we get frustrated, or we feel limited or boxton is when we think that we have to narrow everything down into one nice squishy little message. And then we feel like relieving so much out of who we are so much out of our brand. And then that triggers the feeling of inauthenticity, like that's not just really who I am, I'm so much more. And so, the first thing is to think about or take the mindset and the framing that you are multi passionate, you are multi skilled. But when we think about communicating our message, we want to step into the mind of the audience that we're trying to reach. And we don't want to confuse them, we want to give them something that is almost like a window. You know, think about it, when people would go door to door with their sales messages and strategies you give them just enough KNOCK, KNOCK, KNOCK for them to say okay, come on in. And then let's have a conversation. And then you get to see more about what the services what they offer, you may learn something that you wouldn't have known if they were just at the front door saying Well, I do this, this, this, this and so many things and you confuse them and you lose them. So, first thing is to kind of think about that mindset of a not boiling everything down because it's not who I am, I'm trying to be very clear, I'm trying to be very specific, and connect with my audience in the fastest way possible. Then once you embrace that mindset, it really opens. You have to think about if I only had two minutes, what would be the one thing they absolutely must know about who I am and what I do, and then kind of start there.

Marlana: So, I just want to back up a second. Because, you know, it's something that I have said to clients all the time, who are we talking to, because just to use your analogy of the door-to-door salesperson, let's say I'm selling a vacuum, and I go to the first door and the woman has, you know, three kids in tow hair's a mess. I may be approaching her on a different pain point than let's say I go to the door, and it's a gentleman in a suit. And it's not that there's wrong with either story that I'm going to tell or how I'm going to present it's just knowing who I'm speaking to and what they need to know.

Monique: that is so fabulous. And I will also say too, is that your story has multiple parts. A lot of times we've been taught that the story again, I'm really out of the box, because I just don't like the restriction or the confinement either. But the parameters or the framework give us more opportunity to be expansive, really. So, you're gonna think about your story. It has so many components, you have story pieces, when you were growing up, maybe you had kids, maybe you got divorced, maybe you tried a job, maybe you started a business, there's so many pieces to your story. And when you identify that person who's standing on the other side of the door or who's on the other side of the screen, when you're telling you have to think about okay, I see that Marlana is in photography, she's in branding, the part of my story that would resonate the most with her is not when I were growing up in the islands. The part of the story that may resonate to her is when I shared the stage with Lisa Nichols, and I was paid to be a speaker to come to the islands and they covered my airfare and travel etc., etc., etc., etc. So, I have to determine which part of my story would resonate With the person that I'm speaking to the grid.

Marlana: Now, in order to do that, when you present something or when you work with people? Do you try and dive into the people and know as much about them as possible? Or do you reverse engineer it, where this is who I want to work with, and this is who I want my message to go out to? So, I'm going to start with a message and try and hit on the pain points of the people that I want it to go to versus my I don't know if I'm communicating that clearly.

Monique: You're asking, Where do you start? And then you know, like, do you start with the message and focus on this the message that you want to share? Or do you start with the audience and finding out what do they need to hear? So, you start with the audience, because you know, the audience is going to be the driver of who is going to give you attention or not, there are a lot of people who are speakers, they have great stories, they have great message, they're shouting from the mountaintops, but nobody wants to listen to it. Nobody wants to hear them, because it just doesn't resonate, you know, your story might be great. But if we are business owners, and we are, we have to also think about messaging relating to where we are in business, what can help our audience, improve their lives, make more money, feel better about themselves. And then what do we have in our toolkit in our experience, journey in our history, and our expertise that can help them get there. So, I always say start with your audience, look at an audience analysis, find out as much as you can about them. And it's not a linear thing. You know, Marlana, it's like a circle. So, you're constantly working on both ends, you're finding out about your audience, but you're also finding out about your own story. And I just find that a lot of people don't know their story, or they don't know what part of their story is relevant or helpful, or they are ashamed of their story. They're not ready to tell their story. And so that's where just having someone to come and help you think through those processes. I use external professionals all the time. And this is what I do all day, every day. And I sleep, eat, and breathe it. But you we just can't see the pitcher from inside the frame. So, we definitely need outside perspectives to help us understand what part of our story is most useful. What's happening in our business climate, and in our market, maybe the topic that you started off with five years ago, nobody cares about it anymore. Why? Because well, we're online, we're in our homes, we're tired. There's a collective frustration. So, if you're sending that message that was popular five years ago about the hustle culture and team, no sleep and don't stop when your drop, you start off there, you're going to lose them instantly, they're going to tune out because they don't have the cognitive space, desire, or interest to move that that way. So, keeping align with the evolution of where we are as a business community as a global society, and then finding new pivot points for your story.

Marlana: And I think that's such an important point too, because so many people get stuck on, "I can only start when everything is perfect," then everything is in place. And they fail to recognize that brands and brands stories evolve and are fluid and are a journey that you take people on, it's not just a stagnant point in time.

Monique: A lot of big brands have been reducing the heaviness or the weight in their visual communication, their logos may have changed their font, they've become a little bit more minimalist to seem more lightweight. And you may think that this is actually not a big deal, oh, it's just a logo, nobody's gonna pay attention to it. But no, actually a lot of thought and intention goes into how we present ourselves visually. So, giving yourself the grace of evolution, and to recognize that, you know, I don't want to say the big guns are doing it, or the big boys are doing it. So, if you're a small business, you shouldn't feel upset about changing. But I do want to say that yes, these are big companies, multimillion dollar companies with a lot of resources. And they have the resources to be able to do that and to understand that they also need to evolve. So, I like the approach of the middle of minimalist direction that I see a lot of brands that are now moving, and maybe that doesn't work for you. Maybe you want a brand image that has more weight in the font, maybe your company indicating that you know, you're sturdy and you're strong and you're stable, whatever that message is, make sure that it aligns with your brand. But don't be afraid to pivot. Don't be afraid to evolve. You don't have to have it all figured out. Nobody does. I don't care what level you're at. Nobody has it all figured out. And I am talking to the audience, but I'm talking to myself as well. Because we also need that reminder to

Marlana: Okay, now I want to go in two different directions here. Because I have, I'm just going to put both questions out, then we can tackle them in any order you choose. The first one is about pivoting versus rebranding, because I do want to touch on that whole subject. And the other one is, if we have a fulfil that we have a lot to say, how do we chip away on it and get down to a clear and concise message?

Monique: Which one? Do you want to start with?

Marlana: Your choice, I'll let you go. Okay, let's kind of play with if you have a lot to say.

Monique: Oh, my God! This is the biggest challenge ever. And I remember when I was teaching at the university, I was teaching for seven years and public speaking, before I moved into being a subject matter expert on public speaking for the university. This was one of the biggest challenges. And the way we ended up helping people was to shorten the time that they were given to do their presentations. If you only have 15 minutes to get your message across, you're going to take the whole time to speak. But if you only have seven minutes, you're going to have to be forced to cut down and think through what the most important thing is to do. So, make sure that when you are thinking about all the things that you want to say, take the approach of what is the one or two things that they really want to hear or need to hear. The mindset of thinking that I know exactly what they need to hear. It's a losing approach. It's the wrong approach. We're starting off on the wrong foot. We're centering ourselves. We're not We're not centering our audience. And so, centering our audience allows us to also remove the fear of presentation because when we feel afraid, we thinking about well, what's happening with me, what if they don't think I look good? Or sound good? What if they think I don't know what I'm talking about? What if what I'm saying isn't really special or unique? So, it's ay. As opposed to Via, and what do they need to hear.

Marlana: And I think that's one of the things that people always, it's a common misconception is that your personal brand, is about you, because it's not about you. It's about the people that you serve, and your messages about the people that you serve. And the minute that you turn it on you that's when all the panic comes in, and the doubts come in, and all those kinds of things. But if you lead from a place of service, and knowing that you have something to offer people, it's a different mindset.

Monique: I 100% agree. 100%! And I also want to add, you know, even with your own brand, it is about you, it's about your personality, it's about your own science, your own thought leadership. And so, when I listen to a lot of women who are business owners, because that's who I work with, primarily 80% of them are women. One of the things that I noticed, and this is like a hiding strategy, you know, they tend to use the famous quotes of people who are iconic, as opposed to adding their own perspective or their own thoughts. And the people who are coming, they're coming to hear you, they're coming to hear your story. They don't want to hear about you know, I'm no shade to anybody, but they don't want to hear about Simon Sinek start with why they don't want to hear about Brine browns, shame, and vulnerability. Those are great. They want to hear you, or how have you used that work, that body of work? And how have you now taken that and used it in a personal way? So yeah,

Marlana: yeah, love that. Okay, so now that we've drilled down and given ourselves a time limit and, or even if it's something that we're writing, maybe it's a character limit. Now, let's go back to my other question about pivoting versus rebranding, because, you know, everybody seems to be Oh, I'm rebranding. And are you being you are you really because we have to understand what a brand really is, and it's the way you are perceived. And it's your it's your space in the marketplace. And it's not just logos and fonts and a headshot and things like that it's a collection of the way you are perceived. So, talk to us a little bit about your thoughts on all of that.

Monique: Oh my God! This is good. Now, I think you are in the space of this more than me. But here's what I think. Absolutely! You're in the pivot. I mean, if you're starting a new product or a new service, and you need a different look and feel for what that is that you're offering, or you're adding a new customer segment, then absolutely, you're rebranding, because you're creating the service or the product to attract the need of your customer. But you, as the individual, us the brand, you remain the same. And I think of a lot of times people who are in their corporate roles. And actually, I had a story with a lady who was working at a very top corporate company. And she was speaking on stages on conferences on panels. And she was basically the face of the organization, she had an incredible presence, but she left the company. And when she left the company, everyone just still associated her as that company, you know, so then it became she not only had to think about now how to reposition who she was and what she offered and what her value was. But now she had the extra work of having to counter that she's not that company. So now she created additional, additional work for herself. So, when we are thinking about this whole branding concept, knowing that you could you want to think about if you're working for an organization, and you're a business owner, but just use this example as a, you know, illustration. Imagine that you're working for an organization, and you're moving to three or four different companies. Your brand, what is the image? What is the message? What is the experience? How do people experience you? Is that what you're taking to the other companies? Or are you just bringing your work history and your performance from that company to the others, because even if you're just bringing your work history, let's say you're a finance expert, you're still missing out on the expansion of your brand.

Marlana: So, let me ask you this, let's say I am an executive in a company. How do I effectively tell both my personal brand story and the company brand story without getting one getting lost in the other?

Monique: This is the delicate piece, right? And so, I worked before

Rob Napoli

Rise Up Coaching

Rob is the Host of The Bear Necessities of Entrepreneurship Podcast and is an entrepreneur, speaker, and author of 'The Social Soul'. His journey has taken him from the Midwest to New York City by way of Milan, Italy where he got a Masters's, scaled a global startup, and coached professional American Football. He is currently the Founder of Rise Up Coaching, and Co-Founder and Board Member of Hapday Group. Rob is a continuous learner who creates engaging keynotes, programs, workshops, and curriculum and is on a mission to find the best whiskey bar in Manhattan.

beacons.page/robnapoli

www.linkedin.com/in/robnap

www.riseupcoaching.co

IG: @rise_up.robnap

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcript : Vision In Word

Marlana: Rob Napoli of Rise Up coaching is a continuous learner who is on a mission to find the best Whiskey Bar in Manhattan. He is the host of the bare necessities of entrepreneurship podcast, and as an entrepreneur, speaker, and the author of the social soul. Welcome, Rob.

Rob: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Marlana: So, we're gonna talk today about mastering our personal brand. So, I'm just gonna let you have the floor and dive into it. How do we do it?

Rob: That is a great question. There's a quite a few different ways to do it. Right. And I think it really depends on let's first define what like your personal professional brand is right? And that is that many of us live with kind of two sides of our brand, meaning we have the personal touches, a lot of times like Facebook, Instagram, Tick Tok, Snapchat, whatever, then we have a professional, which is usually just like LinkedIn, right. And we try to keep these things separated for a long time, that was a big goal. But now in a hyper connected digital age, it's no longer about one or the other, and some people can, and some people do. But for most without they're really become a blended thing. And it's because we want to be treated like humans, both personally and professionally. Right, especially in sales and marketing, things like that. And so how do we do that? And it's kind of, you know, it's why I call it the social saw in the book is thinking about, how do we be authentically us online. And so that's where the idea of a personal professional kind of tied together and starting Yeah, you know, you may throw pictures of your kids on Facebook showing off, you know, kids, but that's not how you wanna throw on LinkedIn, maybe you could, if you want to, it's nothing wrong instead. But you might have LinkedIn, it's like more about your professional journey and failures in wins and losses in the workplace versus Facebook at home, you can have that kind of delineation. But understand that those lessons can carry over, it's some of the stuff that you learn at home, you can share here, it doesn't necessarily be oh, this is one thing. And this is the other and a completely separate, I can't crossover content.

Marlana: So that's the thing, too. Let me just ask you this, don't you think to that, because the world is so social, and we do have all these different platforms that it's important to show up consistently on each platform? So, people aren't getting Okay, on LinkedIn, she appears this way. And on Facebook, she appears completely different. there's got to be some kind of a…

Rob: Yeah, I mean, that comes to the fact that like, if you go into a car meeting, and you're not moving the person you're talking with and meeting with, like, who are you? And what are you doing? Right, so first? Yeah, I mean, there's got to be some consistency. You know, consistency is relative, not everyone needs to post daily, not everyone is supposed to weekly and monthly, but you can't just have a profile, and never posts and back. Why bother LinkedIn, you know, there's got to be something there. And it's the whole idea of sales nowadays to be human. Right, and salespeople, before they get on the phone with you, they're gonna know not just what you do professionally, they're gonna know you personally. And if you have kids, if you'd like to go golfing unless you have every one of your profiles locked. And then I'd say how many people do we know a comment? And I'll go look and see if I know somebody like, hey, what can you tell me about, you know, Marlana? What can you tell me about Rob, what can you tell me about Rachel, what can you tell her about Jane's? And so, I tagged on a call if you want to know something about you, right. And so that's why it's important to have consistency across channels. That's why it's important to show up. And, and you know, you don't have to, I'm really against taking the same piece of content and blasting out across all the channels, I think you need to different channels have different tones of voice that you want to have. So, you kind of want to tailor taking the same image or video, but the way you present it, and the text that goes along with it should not be copy, paste, copy, paste, because I don't follow Rob. If I follow him on Instagram, why would I follow him on Twitter? Right? And if you want them to follow your different platforms, then you want to make sure that your platforms are a little bit different.

Marlana: Yeah, that makes sense. And is it more about like you said before, it's not about necessarily showing up every day, but I feel like we do have to be consistent and show up in you know, because the people that seem to be showing up at least are the ones that are getting the attention. Maybe they're not the best at what they do, or but there, they're there. So yeah,

Rob: I mean, it's such a great point, I want to say since I know there's stuff there, yeah, no, it's this like cuz there is something to be said that they're always there. But why are you there? What is the reason for being there? I mean, I have a bunch of, you know, I'm like an early adopter of new platforms. But Marco Polo came out, boom, Snapchat, but Instagram hashtag. I was like, people made fun of me, the hashtag King. He'll made fun of me for documenting. You know what time before I moved off to Italy as kind of playing my final year of football and I wanted to move positions to play one last year, a different position. So, I dropped 45 pounds. For that season, I document that whole journey. I was like, Oh, you're the guy taking this picks the gym. I'm like, Yeah, but it's for a reason. It's accountability. It's both for myself and for others. And you I think being there's one thing, but why are you there, you know, just to have elected because everyone says you should have it versus, I'm there. I've put some thought into my profile. I've shared a little bit. I've engaged a little bit. Maybe it's once a blue moon. But I'm there I show up. Right. And the best example, I can use it this right clubhouse. And even in my book, I read about clubhouse, and I already was gonna rip that out because I think clubhouse is already dead. And that's how fast and I authored this book in the summer. Like I finished the book in the summer of this year. I'm sorry, 2021, so seven months ago. But clubhouse almost got broken. When Elon Musk jumped in a room and did a thing. And clubhouse rooms only handled 20,000. It was crazy. They have a room of 20,000 people. It's just a whole lot. And the fact that people are actually like beating themselves and like, you know, I mean, granted when I'm on stage, but the whole thing and you think about it, why? For whatever anyone thinks about Elon Musk, why are people like Elon Musk, or Dave Portnoy, the CEO of Barstool Sports? That CEO anymore President right, America and our genius, you know, but why are they so popular? It's because they show up on social and they talk to generations, versus the VP or CEO of Johnson and Johnson, no one knows about gravity, they might not need to be there. But why is Elon Musk there? Why does he do it, she doesn't need to be there. He does it because he knows if he if he's there, Gary Vaynerchuk. Same thing, if he's there, he creates brand ambassadors and lifetime and earns longer lifetime value of customers by catching them at 15 1617 where they come and work for you because the best invest talent, or they buy a Tesla. You're creating longer lifetime value, brand engagement, brand awareness and brand loyalty at a much earlier space in place. And so many people missing out. The other side of this, though, is that we don't need more freaking influencers, right? Don't go on and try being an influencer, you gotta go on and be authentic. And if that's showing up once a month, and that's showing up once a month, bacteria are no point to bring this full circle, you have to be there and you have to know why you're there. And you have to know why you're there to engage. And in what way do you want to engage these places? It's a waste of time and space, and a waste of your energy.

Marlana: Agreed? And you know, a friend of mine had said once What do you want to be an influencer or a person of influence because there's a big difference.

Rob: You'll never believe this. That file just randomly showed back up on my desktop, and it's now downloading. And it's a fairly big file. And so, I just paused it and literally have no idea. I haven't touched anything. I've been talking to you for the last 10 minutes. That file just stops. It started downloading and it just stuck the bandwidth. So, I apologize. I think we're back to stable. It's the people that were talking in your ears telling you don't worry about it. I got your file. It's fan just crazy. So 5g is for that quick little crazy waiting, so it should be good. Everything sized again. Okay. So, let's like sweating right now. For the audience I don't know Okay guys out there right before this call, I thought I lost the file was freaking out came to the call two minutes late. I was like, hey, I'll be fine. Oh, you'll figure it out. Cool. So, I shut everything off focus on that conversation in the middle of the conversation the file pops back up and starts downloading, haven't touched anything, haven't done anything in the last segments other than talk to y'all and I was sweating again. I feel bad in the middle of this, all this craziness but that is you know that is serendipity that is karma that is letting things go and letting you know letting go of things you can't control, which is a big lesson around building your personal and professional brand. And driving things across social being authentically you is that you can't control the biggest fear, is that what other people are going to say and think you can't control that. You can control what you post, you can control hire, respond, you know, I talk, attitude and effort all the time. I think there's John Barrows. Now it's like, eat this new thing. It's effort, attitude. And a Kenworth T was, but you know, anyways, I was talking about attitude, effort, by attitude and effort. And it's the idea behind and trolling is that if you have a great attitude, and you give great effort, good things can happen. When you do that, you destroy both things, you control your response as well, not only to control what others do, but you control how you respond. So that's taking that breath, it's having the attitude to be positive, and the effort to take a breath when you're mad, step back and say, Hey, okay, and then you figure out how to respond, oh, the narrative backwards or back to the others. So

Marlana: let me ask you this, because you touched on something that I always tell people, and it said, we can't control what other people think of us. However, we can control, we can steer the conversation. So how, in your opinion, do you steer the conversation when you're building a brand?

Rob: You know, I was (whose podcast, was it?) So, I'm gonna answer your question. But I had a weird realization yesterday. Pulled up my Spotify to listen to music for the first time in a while, and I put on like a new country station. And I realized I hadn't heard any of the songs or playing. And I've realized I've been so this is not to sound pretentious, but I've been so consumed by consuming content for the last four months, that what I have my headphones and I'm listening to a podcast. Like I literally today, I'm still two weeks behind, but I'm almost caught up like on all the podcasts that I have and listen to and follow and almost cut up and like, I just consistently consume content in that music. And I was also a Casio Dad, I can't remember whose it was, but he was talking about, you know, the whole phenomena that everyone wants to see succeeding to succeed. Once their perception of you is that you're successful, they start wanting to tear you down, because they want to be you. Right, so you can't so to your point of not controlling how to think how to control that narrative is, you're not going to because they're gonna either be with you or against you. And it's tough, because if you want to really create yourself as a person of influence, you have to stand for something. And the minute you stand for something, you will isolate someone, just by the nature of it. And we fear more about those who we isolate, than we do that those that buy in. So, if you want to control, have that narrative, post content that's meaningful to you. Post what you feel is authentic and valuable and drives value into others. And that's all you do. Because if people are going to career disagree. What most people don't do though, is they don't lean into the uncomfortableness of the disagreement. Hey, great point. Would you mind having a conversation for five minutes about that further? Learn? Don't be so bullheaded that, well I'm right, you're wrong or I'm the influencer and you're not. Because Zig Ziglar and I love this quote. I people. Most people don't laugh about it. I've done this multiple times. So, people do but what is an expert? X former spurt waterspout. You know, you're somebody who talks about spreading out information in the past. Right? If you really want to be a person of influence, you need to start being an expert. Being a forward thinker, meaning you're talking about things to come you're taking chances on saying hey, I think this might happen based on bias. Experience of 20 years this way, I think the next big thing is this, I think is going to happen. And for many of us, I don't want that. We're too afraid to put our names out there. If you want to control that conversation, the only thing you can do is just post meaningful and valuable content that you feel as you and think, let it ride.

Marlana: Let me ask you this, do you think in there with what you just said, that when you start to put yourself out there, and you start to have people follow you and things like that, and you start to stand for something, if somebody challenges that in a way, or comes up and has something to say the opposite, or questions you or anything like that? How much of that do you think, is a little imposter syndrome coming up that? Oh, well, if they challenged me, and I either don't have the answer, or if I, you know, shift my position at all, then people are gonna think that I'm not what I was.

Rob: Oh, God! Apostasy hits everybody. You mean, I talked about in my book, I talk all the time, I had my episode, last episode a year at my twin brothers talking about it and how, you know, I continue to deal with it. In the first episode of this show, I talk a little bit high deal syndrome. I still deal with it those days, Mike. Yeah, I meant to be part of this conversation is like, How the hell am I in this conversation? Why am I lucky enough to be in this room? As a day's like, Wait, is everything I was telling a lie? It did everything I just right, wrong. You're gonna go through that. And one of the biggest things I can say, when people challenge you is you have to look at your motivation, right? There are two types of motivation, internal and external. We look at that as a hitbox for motivation. And we look at engagement as extra motivation to keep posting more and admitted that starts are negative that to Windows the five extra motivation, extra motivation is only it's limited. It's meant to spark an internal fire. But if that internal fire, the internal motivation is not there, nothing will ever carry. And so, you know, from an imposter syndrome standpoint, you have to kind of look at that and that. Okay, cool. This is again, I can control how I respond. I don't know the answer to this. Oh, what the hell do you have at your disposal? Google? can go find out the answer. You can also say, hey, great point. We'd love to discuss it. Let me come back to you. Guess what, it's a comment. You don't have to respond right away. You can take 24 hours go do your due diligence and come back to or Hey, great point. XYZ or hey, I send out love to discuss the further so great point too long to put in a comment thread, we'll have to maybe have a conversation. There are all kinds of ways you can circle back to that. The key here is you don't have to know everything. It is absolutely okay if you're not trying to

Marlana: Yeah. And I think we have to stop taking everything as an offence if somebody questions us it's not an offence or and I think to so many times we listen with the intent to respond and not to hear what they're actually saying.

Rob: That is huge. Like that right there's a huge nugget right listen with the intent to hear band Yeah. Right versus listening tend to respond What's your right like that kind of knock you back for a second because I was already thinking about why our response versus like you're gonna kind of that's a great there's something so poignant that is, you know, you get to just hear and that when you post something out to the world, you gotta hear the world. In fact, if you don't know where to start and Cray start paying engaged In fact, the best thing to do to be a person of influence is not to create content to engage with content. Right, because engaging you're allowed to ask questions, delve deeper conversations, be more of a spark to a flame that's going like it's you actually, you know, it's like you're blowing oxygen onto a flame of things that are happening. You don't have to be another you don't have to push our time some people don't want to it's cool don't want to do videos cool down, go engage on 10 posts a day spark conversation, and then see who else is commenting on it. That's what people don't do so they can't believe salespeople don't do enough, but I see a lot of sales and fun to talk about this. So, this is nothing new but say you posted something great, and I commented "Hey balls law love this of that." I'm gonna go through and look at all those people are commenting and seeing if people are you know, I'm throwing out those says Hey, Greg posts is cool. But I'm looking at who's commenting, you know, meaningfulness I might go look at who likes it and see, even like my ICP, average shout, hey, great couple, you know, great comments on the post, you know, I had similar feelings, would love to have a chat, but we put like, what better way to start organic conversations, then use the fact that you're engaging in other content to do that and make that full circle, right. So, you don't even have to create content at all, to become kind of a

Jay Jay

Ace Of Spades Agency

Jay Jay is an international speaker and has been exciting people with his message for the last 15 years in over 30 countries.

In 2009, he leveraged the social media platform YouTube to grow his brand to 57,000,000M views online in the entertainment industry.

Leaving his tricks behind he leveraged his mastery in PR and Personal Branding to start an advertising agency called

Ace Of Spades which helps people grow their personal brand so they can become #1 in their space.

@JayJayLive

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcription : Vision In Word

Marlana: Jay Jay is an international speaker and has been exciting people with his message for the last 15 years in over 30 countries. He's leveraged his mastery in PR and personal branding to start an agency called ace of spades, which helps people grow their personal brand so they can become number one in their space. Welcome, Jay.

Jay: Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. I'm excited Monday morning here in Miami. What a great way to stop the day, you know, some people, some energy, enthusiasm, some excitement, and some moves today, you know,

Marlana: love it. Well, you know, as a personal brand photographer, this topic is near and dear to my heart because I have my own ideas about why we have to create a personal brand. But tell me, why do you say that we need a personal brand?

Jay: Listen, people are buying your product, they're buying you. Period. Look at who you work with. Look, you know, I used to be a magician, right? That was my backstory for 15 years, I was a magician. And I worked with many photographers at weddings. I used to do magic shows at weddings. And for some relatability to like, I always would ask the photographer like why did they choose you? Right? There's a lot of photographers, how many photographers, you know, from the 18-year-old to the whole team, the big production team that comes in with the bells and whistles. And most of the time, it wasn't the best photo. It was they really connected with me. They liked me. They listened to me, and they trusted me. And isn't that crazy? You know, you don't need to be the best. You don't need to have the best landing page or the best website. But if people can know you, and then they can like you and trust you then like that they will choose you period.

Marlana: And you know, I always tell people, if you are online in any way, shape, or form, you have a personal brand, either by design or by default. So, in my opinion, it should be by design. And what are your thoughts on that?

Jay: Yeah, you know, but I think the issue with that is a lot of people feel like that they don't have a message. And they don't have a story. Right? Well, I'm not like her, and I'm not like Jay. That's Jay, that's his personality, I don't want to be that person. And in in the space that I play running this agency specializing in personal branding, we find that so many people have this black and white evening Yang, like hot and cold way to look at a personal brand, right? Gone are the days where it was only for people like who were on television or gone are the days actors and celebrities or that one guy that's like selling rugs, rugs a million guys buy these rugs come on down, there's always that one guy in the city, it's like, oh, that's just as Jim, let Jim be Jim. Now, with the internet, now with how everyone is connected through this machine in front of me, this $1,500 iPhone. And now with what's going on in the world, people want to connect, people want to know, they have more options, and they want to get to know more people. So, it's like, this is the time where you can literally step into your superpower and go you know what, I have something to tell the world. You know what, and I deserve to have a part of it. And the money, the movement, and the people as well.

Marlana: So, what are some of the mistakes or missteps you see people make when they are developing their brand.

Jay: Titan, get your ego out of the way, right? Get your ego out of the way, whether you've been in the game for 30 or 40 years, right. We work with people in the financial services, we work a lot of people but a lot of people that have built that business or company and they're working on the business, right? And they have been this kind of personality or persona, they have to now reveal, they have to now open up a little bit more, they have to sort of take off their suit jacket or their power, what they've been doing for so many years and change it up a little bit. So, the big thing is you go allowing yourself; this is personal branding, it wasn't such a new concept, but it's been accepted to be new now. You know, you can't hide behind a business card and a toy in a 12-story building. Now people want to get to know, isn't it funny with the pandemic? Now everyone has to see each other on Zoom. Now you only do that with people that you love, someone you're dating, you're married, your husband, wife, kids. Now, if you don't get on a FaceTime with someone or Zoom, you can't say no anymore. You literally can't say no. You know? So, the hell, you got to sell yourself, you know? So yeah, it's coming back to your point, I would say ego would be the first part, and ego of having to allow people in or ego of having to let go. And then also coming back to fear of just like the unknown fear of what will people think of me? They're going to judge me. I'm going to get laughed out at. Yes, you will, right? Let's just deal with that, let's just bring up that emotion now. So, you can control it because it's going to happen. But from what I tell people all around the world that I've helped completely opposite, the mail, females, different sexes, different nationalities, different industries, the moment that someone puts themself out there and really stands into their superpowers, I call it magic happens. They never said to me, that was a bad move. They never said, I'm really annoyed. Now clients calling me and saying, I love that video that you put up this morning over coffee. They said, Oh my gosh! I should have done this 10 years ago; I wish someone gave me the confidence to do this earlier.

Marlana: So, what are some best tips that you would give to somebody who is trying to either develop their personal brand or home in on their personal brand? Or take it to the next level?

Jay: Yeah, you know, I would always say, do things that you can control right now. You know, I'm the kind of guy, I'm kind of speaker when I shift into people, I want them to leverage and implement today, not like you get really excited, and then nothing happens, right? So, here's some moves that you can do today. First thing you can do is you can show up on a video, right? You can press a button, take a breath, count to three and go live. What's the worst it's going to happen? Now, when I say that people are already feeling that fear of no one's gonna listen, there's only going to be three people on who cares. Like, you know, even for someone like me with the profile that I have, I still have a very small amount of people, right? And I still get scared, I still get worried of what are people gonna think, how people gonna think of me today, am I coming across too much. So, like, You got to get that fear away. But if you start with video, I told my clients doing Instagram Live or a Facebook live every day. You don't want that's amazing. Because one, it gets you out of your head, two. It gets you engaged in instant engagement, three, and it teaches you how to have consistency to put yourself out there. You don't need any editing. You don't need to worry about any kind of extra money or anything you have to set up. You have an internet connection, you can speak, and you have a face, you're good to go.

Marlana: And it's nice to because people start to then connect with you and see you, which is always a good thing.

Jay: People like to give some people listening, a little bit more of an advanced answer. These customers are getting smarter. Customers know they have multiple options. They know you're not the only one in the game, right? If they do, usually, you know, they're going to Google you or they Instagram you. They're going to like stalk you online, or find the person that, like they're going to talk to a friend and maybe go down the road, a coffee shop, just to get another opinion, I would do that, you would probably do that, you go to who you trust, right for whatever, you know, you're going to them because you trust their opinion. You ask them, Hey, I'm looking for a photographer, you do that. So, the faster you can connect with people, and the faster that people can see you as the expert, you know, to come back to the question before you're asking what people can do, I would always put up educational different content. Because if people can see you as the expert, then when they have that pain or problem, you're the solution in their mind, if you put up a video every day, let's say you're a coach, and you talk about why you need to coach, the power of having a coach, how like using different stories of having a coach to your point, your team. And that moment when someone's sitting down, it's like, Man, I'm really struggling with my business, or I need some help. Oh! That girl, that person was talking about coaching, I'm gonna go check her out. I'm immediately pain solution from doing that educational driven content. So, that can be a great move today.

Marlana: Now, most people that I work with personally, are not employees of a company, but just for a minute, why would they need a personal brand?

Jay: Look at the end of the day. Think about this. So, let's say you go for new job. These days, a resume isn't enough. These days companies, it's all about company culture. It's all about like what else you bring into the team. You know, think about it. I always tell people turn it on the person. The person hiring like if you were the hire, right? If you're the HR and you had 10 People that were all qualified in front of you, all good, all willing to take, you know, the 95 grand a year plus, right? So, you have to make a decision, but you can only choose one and there were 10 people, let's even make it better five people. Okay? All qualified, right? Maybe six, three men, three female, who'd you make the decision over? It's going to be something more than skills. It's going to be more on likability and connection, and trust. And let that needle, just let that sink in for a second. And it's like, so, it's like, okay, then people go, Okay, well, maybe the attractive person is going to win, that could help. But that's not going to be the deal. Right? Because everyone can fix themselves up, everyone can look, but say everyone will look the same. So, it's all about that personality. How are you connecting with that person? And that can be the decision maker between the change of your life or not getting the job?

Marlana: What about people that say, you know, I'm uncomfortable putting too much out there? What's the line between enough and too much?

Jay: So, there are two things that come up for people. And I'll answer this question first. The first one is I'm shy. And I'm an introvert. And you know what? I tell them. Who told you that? And they gave me exactly. So, let's firstly watch our language. Because like, if you say, you are this, this will happen. No one wants to speak to me. Of course, they don't want to speak to you, like watch the words come out of your mouth. But to the thing is, yeah, I don't want to share too much. Okay, cool. What else? Well, why? Well, I don't want to be seen as this. Okay, what does it look like to and usually, once again, they go to that place where they think you have to be half naked on the internet? Or you have to be that family that shows like, I don't want to share my family fighting, like, they think it's gonna be reality TV, and I understand that, or it's gonna be extreme. So, it's just like, I get that. But there's a finesse way about it. You don't need to share your deepest, darkest secrets. But you can put up a photo of yourself and have a story about how you struggled to find your first deal as a real estate. Or maybe when you're selling that bakery, that you've made a massive error, and you've got the wrong flower and make people sick, like, share that it's in the past, you would share that with me, if we're having a coffee together or a drink. Just share it with the world, because they will only be, wow, she's vulnerable, he's vulnerable. They're open, and that's going to give you… That's gonna lead them and bring them in.

Marlana: Yeah, you know, and I've said to people in the past, for me, I liken it to a rental property. So, if you go to a rental property, you know, you want your guests to sleep in the beds and be comfortable, use the pool, and you know, make themselves at home, but there's always an owner's closet, there's always something locked in the owner's closet. And so, all you want everybody to have enough of you where they are comfortable and feel at home. But there's always something in the owner's closet for you.

Jay: I always want to find out what's in that closet, Is it just me?

Marlana: no! Usually, I'm sure it's boost. But

Jay: I've always something like you can't have like, hang on a second. Yeah. Can we pay for this place? Yeah.

Marlana: But, what about the influence that you can gather? Okay, let me rephrase this. What about if you are a company owner? How important is it to separate your personal brand from your company brand?

Jay: Well, look, you know, the great question to the thing now is people want to get to know the owner. They want to get to know the man behind the product, period. More people now want to know what Jeff Bezos eats in a day. Then, Amazon sometimes, like when they searching, they're like, What does Jeff Bezos eat? Why do we care about what the owner of amazon.com eats in a day? Because there's this kind of psychology that like, I want to see what a very wealthy, powerful man, what, who, what he cares for what he stands for, what he's about? How does he look after his wife? is he for, you know, a certain kind of clothing? Or is he not for a certain point? Is he vegan? Is he me? Is the Trump, is the buyer, then, like we want that's very important, and that's PR. That's how you're relating yourself to the public. So, to the people listening, is it direct ROI? 100% in a branding is really not really ROI driven. It's long-term trust, but I always tell people to like, if you share now, those are those customers that will stay with you forever. Because they feel like that part of you, that part of your family. They know you; you know and people We'll make decisions based on that. They'll be like, You know what, like, yeah, I could get my house for three people, but I like the way she looks after our children. Like, you know, I care for that. I also had a mom like that, you know, her mom's crazy. My mom's Crazy, right? Give her the deal. You know what I mean? People will make decisions like that. Now, not everybody will very different kind of bias, right. But in my experience and opinion with the internet and where we're going and what's happening, I'm seeing a huge spike in long term trust and long-term community. And people just never needing to jump to different places because they like you. They love you.

Marlana: Based on that statement, do you think that the court ship process in doing business with any particular person or company, or anything has become longer because we are trying to develop that trust factor?

Jay: Yeah, I think the trust factors become harder. You know, I think you're correct. From my experience, people are now more guarded, so to say courtship, yes, if that's the way you'd like to, as we call it, to get the princess in the castle. There are way more many people you got to get this more ogres, you're going to get through, it used to be one ogre, maybe the father and the princess. Now there's a moat and sharks and finally goes the ex-boyfriend, then the father, then the princess. So, the trust factor is a lot. The sales cycle is a lot more, or I'm sorry, it's just a lot harder because people got it. They've been sold who've been front and center. And if they see one thing that like they'll turn, and it isn't just a review, it could be something that they've heard, or they see some reputation management is super important reputation, but you can fix up branding.

Marlana: So, let's talk about that for a second. They see something that they don't like. So now in some people's heads, that becomes the fear of oh my gosh! I have to be everything to everybody, tell us about that.

Jay: So that, yeah, everyone doesn't want everyone's duty. No one wants Bobby Kennedy more. So yes, I don't think you should just go out to market and be like, share it all straightaway. Like because you haven't built that trust yet. Right? And you know, this is what people have to remember. You don't want everybody to like you. But you still need to be likeable. You still need to have something, to have some form of likeability on and you don't just be like, you know, if you will, I don't care about anyone. I'm like, hang on a second. There's a fitness 30 Bobby and Ken, where you're a yes guy. Right. But because people love conviction, and people love people who, Hey, man, at least he stands up, he knows what he's, I like him because he owns who he is. And he's authentic. And he's been like this from day one. He's been like this from day 12. Day 50. Whether I like them or not, you respect someone that doesn't, that stays who they are. And we all know these people that you like, even meet someone you like, something's just off. That is enough to me that Right? that gut feeling right? And maybe you and I are more conscious to it. I'm extremely conscious to it. Because when I was travelling for 10 years, I was just a young boy by myself. All I had is my confidence in me and my feeling of blaming Asia, I don't speak the language, I better just listen to what I...

Fredrick Douglas Bussey, IconStatus

Fredrick Douglas Bussey is an investor, author, speaker, coach & serial entrepreneur. His new book Breaking Orbit: Rip Out of the Regular By Unearthing the Power Within, explores how to discover, own and master the unique superpower with which we were all created. He coaches millionaires, entrepreneurs & leaders, showing them how to realize their untapped potential to create the life they deserve. As a husband and father though, he claims his family as his greatest legacy.

Facebook group - 7-Figure Circle Million-Dollar Mastermind: https://www.facebook.com/groups/7FigureCircle

Breaking Orbit - Buy The Book: https://amzn 33MmytB.to/

Website: www.fredrickbussey.com

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcription : Vision In Word

Marlana: Frederick Douglass Bussey is the owner of icon status, His new book Breaking Orbit, Rip Out of the Regular by Unearthing the Power Within explores how to discover, own, and master the unique superpower with which we were all created. Welcome Frederic.

Frederic: How are you, Marlana? Good to see you.

Marlana: You too. So first of all, explain that phrase to us breaking orbit, what does that mean?

Frederic: Well, when I came up with the idea for the book, I started thinking about how we have this idea of success, almost a visual in our heads that the higher you go, the more successful you are. But then there is. So, if you think about it a plane, then we think about in terms of you take off, and now you're flying high, right? But often what happens is that we didn't get stuck in this orbit, right? Because that's really what flying is it's orbiting the Earth at a certain altitude. But when we realize that we are really built created for so much more than just going around in circles, even at a high level, we kind of misunderstand what it is that we're created to do. There's a phrase in the book that I coined, it says that rockets belong among stars, which means that rockets are meant to go up and out and to explore the deepest reaches of the galaxy, not to orbit around the planet. Even though you're a PI, a lot of people can look at you and say, Oh, they're really doing really well. But if you notice that a lot of people, especially when you're dealing with celebrities, or people that are really well known maybe for wealthy, there's this belief, there's this sense that you get that once you have reached this peak, that's all there is. And there's a kind of emptiness and loneliness that comes with that. But when you realize that you're actually capable of so much more. And that trajectory is not meant to be up and around, but up and out. Always exploring, always creating more, always seeking what is deeper. Because that's what we are created to do, then it helps us understand that what we're really meant to do, what I want to help people do with this book is to break that orbit, right? So not just go up and around, but up and out.

Marlana: So how do we determine if we are basically on autopilot and just orbiting or if we are going in the trajectory that we should?

Frederick: Well, there's a sense that a lot of us are having. We're always chasing meaning, versus creating it. And, you know, you're in a creative space as well. But even the midst, even the idea of a creative space is a misnomer that some people are creatives, and some are not. If you are not in a place where you are always creating that fulfilment, creating that meaning through new things to new endeavors through to the everyday inner interactions and the impact you're designed to create. And that's the impact, is the ultimate way that we measure how we are moving throughout the world. I think you know, it's a word that gets thrown around a lot. And I think what people really mean is that things don't feel meaningful or significant to them. They don't really know what they're doing is moving the needle of exchanging right. I think we all have a sense that we're here today gone tomorrow. But we want to be remembered, we want to have mattered otherwise, what are we doing this for. And so, the thing that we have when we're pursuing relationships with people is that we can look in their eyes, and we can see that what we are doing matters to them, we matter to someone, our words, our actions, our impact. We feel seen, we feel validated, we are seeking to find that through others, because that is what we crave as human beings. And so, relationships give us that when we are in work, work also creates a significance, there is the ability to create something out of nothing, whether it's a photograph, whether it's a sculpture, whether it's a company, a product, whatever the case may be. When we can do those things, we create that sense of significance. However, if the things that we create, feel finite, feel flimsy, feel hollow, then we feel the same way. And so, while we always have this need to create something new, to create more, we need to know that the impact that we're creating is meaningful and it matters. And so, I think if you don't have that sense about yourself, you feel like you're not making any way. And I don't mean just in terms of if you have a business and just start growing monetarily in terms of revenue, or size or scale, I mean that in terms of impact, you feel like you're not moving the dial that your clients aren't being transformed by the work that you're doing together, that your products aren't essentially solving a problem that moves the world forward. In a way, if you don't feel that sense of impact, and I suspect that you are probably in orbit, even if you feel like you're doing very successful, maybe making a few million dollars a year in terms of your income, but at a certain point, you can only buy so many things, you can only do so much with that money. It is not in service of creating greater impact. And I think that's what we're all pursuing. On a day to day basis, we're all searching for that meaning that we can create it.

Marlana: So, let me ask you this, because I know a lot of people that make their living in the creative space, once we have created something, we're excited about it, and then we're kind of over and on to the next thing. So how does that play into all of this?

Frederic: That's a great question. There are different phases or levels of that. So, I was a songwriter for many years, I still write songs, even a as a practice of creativity. But I think that there is a sense of completion that we're seeking, right, there is an idea that we have in our, our creativity is about bringing that idea into fruition. So, once it's done, in sense of, I guess even in a Biblical sense, right? Once you can, you can create it and say it is good is complete. In its whole, it's like a connection that we make, say I have been completed through this work. But there is more for me to do. So, I like going into the process of when I use a phrase in the book called walking in your gift, which means that I am constantly every day, my job is to show up and to create, right. So, it doesn't mean that once I have done this one thing that I've done, it just means that every day I am seeking to create something in a complete form to complete an idea that has impact in the world. So, you can use a song as an example. Right? Once you correct that song, and it is complete that idea it does the thing that it was meant to do. But there are more songs to be written. Because there are more choose to be told, there's more insight to be gleaned, there are more emotions to be expressed. If you can, if you're in a relationship, and I believe as a woman, as a wife, or a husband, if you were to tell your spouse that you love them once, right, that will be a complete act, they will feel great. But you need to continuously do that, because the relationship that you have between yourself and them can always be expanded and can go deeper. And so, it's the constant affirmation, the constant creation of more love and the deepening of that bond. And so, your gift is very much like that in the way that you show up in the world. You continuously lead show up as powerfully as you can by moving on to the next thing, and creating more of these ideas, these products, or more leadership, whatever the case may be, so that you can impact the world continuously. It's a journey, not just a onetime event.

Marlana: So how do we get in touch with that gift? How do we know what gift is ours?

Frederic: So, in the book, I give nine keys for discovering your gift. I bring them in to break them out into three categories. I won't go through all the steps, but essentially it is a disc, a process of self-awareness to dive in and discover what type of impact you create in the world. So, a definition of a gift is your capacity to create a specific, unique impact in the world. And so if it's about impact, it's understanding well, how do I create an impact? And those three categories that I use to describe that are transformers, translators, and transistors, right? So, transformers have the ability to create something out of nothing. They are which we would call innovators or maybe even creators. They are the ones that are originals in terms of how they think, or they are able to reimagine things in particular ways, whether it's a product, fashion, art, music, engineering, ideas, whatever the case may be. Translators are people who are able to convey the meaning and stuff So like, again, it's about your capacity to create the impact, not about the thing that you do. It's not about the patient per se. But a translator is someone who can take those, the meaning that is inside of something, and make it simplified, create more clarity around that. So, you could think of it as if you had someone who wrote a song, you would have a critic who could review it, but maybe it was someone who wrote a book about the music itself to help people understand the real meaning behind it, to expose more insight around it, then you have what are called Trans sisters. These are people who have essentially through their presence are able to enhance other people's gifts, to be able to bolster the power that someone else has or that other people have in organization. In a group, you could think of it as we call it, in basketball, we call it being the glue guy, the guy who comes in and does all the dirty work, he doesn't get all the glory, doesn't make the greatest shots, but he does all the little things that make things happen. And there are people that show up most powerfully in those roles. They may be the life of the party, you know, they're the ones that when they step in the room, all the everyone's eyes light up, and they're making everyone feel at ease, are empowered, but you, we judge our gifts through the impact that we create and knowing the particular way that you create that impact, what your capacity is to create, the impact is essential to how you can show up in the world most powerfully.

Marlana: So, do we fall into just one category? Or can we fall into certain categories based on certain situations?

Frederic: Another great question. As I was writing the book, I actually had this question come up in my mind, because it seems like sometimes, they will overlap. I think that the power of a gift is that it can have multiple impacts. But I think essentially, every one of us a is a container for a type of gift. So that is the way that we show up the most powerfully. When you are a transformer and you are creating things that are original, you are enhancing other people's gifts, because you're inspiring them, right. But the way that you inspire them primarily happens through creating these things in a particular way. Or if you're a translator, like for instance, I'm a translator, it's not that I have the most original thoughts, although I made but it's my ability to be able to articulate them in a way that makes it clear for other people, which also enhances them and allows them to be inspired or motivated, or to get into action to understand themselves better. But the way that I show up is in a particular type of container. And I think what that does is it minimizes the comparison ism, that a lot of us kind of encounter, right? So, you're a creative and in photography, if you were to compare it, compare yourself to any Liebowitz all the time, right? And that is your bar. But you are not understanding that you have your own particular capacity to do things in your own way, then you would potentially always be imitating her when we say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. But there is a level of imitation in terms of trying to raise your skill level and imitation or trying to be this person to feel validated. And recognize that we all have our own gifts, we all have our own capacity in which is valid, which is necessary, which is meaningful. And if we don't lean into what we are designed to do, the way that we are designed to do it, we're not leaning into that particular impact the way that we are capable of creating it, then we're cheating ourselves or we're cheating the world. So hopefully that answers your question.

Marlana: Yeah! So, let me ask you this, then how do we use our gift to cut through the noise or to stand out in our industry or to make a greater impact? How do we use that?

Frederic: One of the things I love about this concept of giftedness is that you recognize how unique you are. Every human being even if they were to imitate someone else, what they're doing to the letter would still come out slightly different because we are all genetically met differently. We have different degrees of talents and skills and abilities and even the length of your fingers as compared to somebody else will alter the way in which you do something. there's a signature, human signature that we all have. And by striving to lean into that, we are able to show up in a way that sets us apart because you're going to see things and filter things differently than someone else will. And we really have to learn to lean into those things and trust them, because that is how we are able to articulate our uniqueness. I love to talk about, there's a concept of developed called singularity, which simply means the art of being singular, the art of being the one category of one. And art is a great way to do that. Because if you're imitating the Mona Lisa, like Seth Godin likes to talk about this, this village in China, where they churn out these replicas of masterpieces of art, like the Mona Lisa, by until they do hundreds of them a day, they're all exactly the same. They're carbon copies, because these people skill is replicating other people, yet they have a skill set that if they were to be their own individual artists to lean into that they could be making hundreds of different unique pieces of art every single day. And what would that do to inform the world to inspire the world to fill it up with more beauty? Because the beautiful thing about the Mona Lisa, the reason why they're copying it is because it is a singular piece of art, right? And so, if you have an artist that creates a similar piece of art is able to stand the test of time, that is what we should be learning to do. We have been educated, however, to be replicators of the Mona Lisa, not understanding that we all our own Vinci's, our own Michelangelo's, our own van Gogh's in our own way, our gifts or that capacity to show up with that artistry at their level.

Marlana: Hmm, I love that. So let me pull it into the music industry, because I know that you've worked in the music industry for 15 plus years. What makes one person stand out above another? Or is it always talent? Or is it something else?

Frederic: Yeah, this is a great question. My business partner and I, high standards, we talk about this often. There's a phrase that people use in the industry just called a star, right. And what it means is that they have this unique quality that attracts people to them. If I was using Categories of gifts, I would say that they're a transistor. They're simply able to embody whatever their energy is, it's a different level. And when you've been around them, and I'm sure you have, you work with different people, but there's some people that almost they set you on edge. So, I remember the stories about Michael Jackson. And how Michael would step on the stage, and he could just stand there. And he would literally start concerts when he would just stand there for minutes at a time. And people would lose their minds, like most of us can do that be like What are you doing, like we're gonna start to show, Michael because Dan there and you will feel completely entertained, because that was his level of energy, focus, the anticipation, he can lean into that for four minutes at a time. He did that in Super Bowl, biggest beanie on stage, he just appearing all over this failure. However, they did. That was amazing. But the point is, they are uniquely themselves, and they have the competence to be themselves even when it makes other people uncomfortable. Because that's all they know how to be. I think to a degree, we all have certain elements of that, that we can show up as stars in our own gift. But when it comes to the music industry, especially, you just see that talent is not enough, like the greatest singers are not always the biggest stars, right? Michael Jackson wasn't the greatest singer in the world. He was unique in the way that he sang vocalized, he was a great singer. But he wasn't the greatest. But he had that ability to embody something in a particular way. And so, their ability to be authentic in terms of conveying the music and just believe that you're entertained, you are captivated, you know that that's the level that we're searching for. And I think one of the things that's happened in this age, because of the ability of anyone now to create an album, to create a song, to produce music, to create anything to create anything, you know, and I can trend, I can cross borders and talk about you know, digital photography or whatever right? Because everyone has the iPhone, they have the tools, they can imitate a great photo, but there are elements of understanding what needs to be articulated through photo, what needs to be articulated through music or writing or whatever, there is an art and a science and a science and an art. And there are those who have the gift to be able to do that. And it's something that you could describe. But you cannot replicate it. It's an obvious most authentic form, right? You can't replicate a Lady Gaga or Mary J. Blige or even a Luciano Pavarotti, like technically, people can know how to do certain things. But the humanity of it, the level at which it just transforms people right there. You have, you can hear, we all like tick tock and Instagram and things like that we all have these duets, and people are doing their cover versions of other people's songs. So, there's the cover where somebody can sing it perfectly well, but there was the original that made you love it and fell in love with it for a particular reason. Now, artists was able to convey that. And it's something that's being lost because we have so much music now. And so much, so many photographers, photographs, and so much...

Larry Jorgensen

"The Coca-Cola Trail"

People and Places in the History of Coca-Cola

Author background:

Journalist with extensive experience in print (weekly, daily and magazines), radio and television news (both writing and on-air) wire service, assignment and freelance. Publisher/editor monthly publication.

Currently research and writing history related articles and books. Also providing media services for clients.

Works from office at his home along a bayou in Louisiana.

https://www.thecocacolatrail.com

www.marlanasemenza.com

Audio : Ariza Music Productions

Transcription: Vision In Word

Marlana: Larry Jorgensen is a journalist and author of the Coca Cola trail. He opened places in the history of Coca Cola. Welcome Larry.

Larry: thank you, It's a pleasure to be here and to participate in your programme.

Marlana: Well, thank you, you know, brands don't get much more iconic than Coca Cola.

Larry: Yeah, that's true.

Marlana: So, what was the motivation for you behind doing all this research and becoming an expert in this?

Larry: Well, actually, it started out not to be a book. I freelance writing. And one of the areas I like to write about his travel. I learned that there was a Coca Cola museum of sorts in Vicksburg, Mississippi, where Coca Cola was first bottle by the way. And I thought, well, that's interesting. And then I also learned that there was one not too far away in Monroe, Louisiana, which they kind of related. So, I thought, that's a great travel feature. I'll do a feature on two Coca Cola museums. Well, by the time I got to the second one, I had met people who were relatives, you know, heirs of the original bottlers who got talking and found out that this story is all over the country. It wasn't just in Vicksburg, or in Monroe. And I was encouraged to look further. And in fact, no one has really done a book about this specific area of Coca Cola, (the little bottlers, the people who got involved, you know, made it happen). earlier books are all about corporate Coca Cola, Atlanta, Georgia, tried a lot of support the bottlers and the people that found out I was doing a book, we're just very gracious to help and provide photos from their files and exclusive interviews. It was truly a great experience to do the book.

Marlana: And you know, I think that's one thing that we tend to forget sometimes, that behind any brand, there's just people and the stories of people.

Larry: that's very true and coke has got such a unique story of people because, you know, you see why you go buy a bottle, or a can, or whatever, Coca Cola, but you know, Coca Cola didn't think bottling their drink was a good idea. And when Joe Beaton art in Vicksburg, first bottled it in 1896, he was selling the syrup, he had a solar phone, and he was using the syrup which would come in gallons, you don't make the drink at his phone. And he was also selling the syrup to other, he was a distributor to other solar phones. And he thought, you know, this is 1896 at Vicksburg, if I could get this to the people in the country, so they don't have to come to town, we can sell some more Coca Cola, so he decided to bottle, and he sent his first two cases to Asia Candler, who at that time owned Coca Cola and was making the syrup and Asia responded with it's okay but you know, I'm more interested in selling the syrup. And Joe got a little upset because he never sent the bottles back. But anyhow. So, it goes on for five years like this Joby Nardus bottling Coca Cola. As it turns out, there are two enterprising, here's our new entrepreneurs in Chattanooga, Tennessee, who thought, you know, Coca Cola is really a good drink, we get it at the local phones, maybe we can bottle it. So they go to Atlanta, and they talk to Mr. Candler. And they say we would like to get the exclusive rights to bottle Coca Cola. He told them that's ridiculous. He said, I'm worried the flavor will change. And he said, you know, and I told him, he said, bottling is a backstreet business. Is that No, I don't think we want to do that. Well, the two who went to visit him happened to be lawyers. And you should know it's very difficult to win an argument with a lawyer. So, they kept talking to him. And finally, he said, All right, I'll tell you what, you two go back to your hotel tonight. And you draw up a little contract. Bring it the morning, let me take a look at it. So, they do that. In the next morning with their contract and somewhat he said, I gotta get rid of these guys. So, he signs a contract to sell the exclusive rights throughout the United States to bottle Coca Cola except Mississippi because it was being done there. And he sold those rights for $1. And they say never collected the dollar. And he told him he said, If this doesn't work, don't come crying back to me about this, you know? So, what are these two guys doing? They go back to Chattanooga, and they're like, now what are we to do? We have $1,500 between the two of us. How are we going to bottle Coca Cola for everybody in the United States? So, they start a little bottling plant? And that's not the answer. Then it dawns on them. I think today we call on franchising, you know, and they said, Wait a minute, we've got the rights. Let's start selling little pieces of our rights. So, you know, if you want to do bottle Coca Cola in Raleigh, you know, you could buy a 50-mile territory, and it would cost you X amount. And that would be your area where you could exclusively bottle Coca Cola. Of course, you paid for the territory to these two enterprising souls in Chattanooga. And also, you were required to use the Coca Cola syrup. That way flavors the same. But the little proviso on that is when you bought the syrup. The two guys in Chattanooga got a commission on every gallon of syrup you bought. So, these told you that territory, but they were still involved in your business. And that is how Coca Cola really took off. It was all these people all over the country. At one point there were like 1500 little bottlers all over. And they bought the territory, truly invested in selling your product, that they invested their money to sell your product. Pretty neat idea! And that's how it took off. A lot of experimentation and bottling by these young entrepreneurs, a lot of mistakes, a lot of lessons in marketing. How do we get people to try this interesting new drink? It wasn't you know, people then we're Bottling orange, SAS, gorilla, you name it, you know, Coca Cola. That's kind of different way to kind of get them to try it. So, marketing became a big important mission for these new bottlers as well. They learned a lot.

Marlana: Because it was basically franchise, did they keep the marketing the same or each individual bottler had to follow certain marketing?

Larry: I think they learn from each other initially. It isn't like Coca Cola Euro today where they sit down. This is what Donald shall do. But they learn from each other. They always were a close group, the Coca Cola bottlers, and they shared experiences good and bad. And they learned a lot. I think the biggest thing that all of them learned was you had to get someone to try a coca cola drink, because it was so different. And they would share ways that they did it you know that there was a Coca Cola bottler in Santa Fe, New Mexico, that after he made his first case of Coca Cola, took it to his favorite grocery store where he did business. And he said, I'm going to leave this case here. I'll be back in a week, and I'll pick up the money. Well, he went back in a week and his case of Coca Cola was being used as a doorstop. And he's mad doesn't work. So, he thought I kind of make people thirsty. Try my drink. So, entrepreneur, he bought a big 50-pound bag of salted peanuts in the shell. He then got the youngsters in his family to put the peanuts in little bitty bags. And then he went to the high school football games, and he sold peanuts. And he also took along his Coca Cola, and he figured out that for every bag of peanuts, he would sell that person would come back and buy two bottles of Coca Cola. So that's how he got people try it and other places. I could say there were bottling banners, you know doing the business. So, if a grocery store ordered a case of bottled soda, it might be For oranges and some lemon and, you know, root beer and whatever in there. Well, the viler if he was doing Coca Cola, he slipped a couple bottles of Coca Cola in there too. Well, pretty soon it caught on. And ultimately his grocery store, his retailer was buying cases of Coca Cola.

Marlana: Interesting. Do you know if the formula was basically the same back then? Or was it kind of up to whoever was doing the bottling?

Larry: no, the formula has always been the same, except, and I always get asked the question, and I'm sure you're gonna go to Tom obg to it. Was there cocaine in Coca Cola? You know, the urban myth…

Marlana: right?

Larry: Well, Coca Cola formula is made from the kola nut and the coca leaf. And it was developed by John Pemberton to relieve pain. He was the one that invented it. And he had been injured in the Civil War. This is back in the mid-1800s.

Marlana: Because memory serves, they used to sell coke syrup for various ailments

Larry: yeah, and I've talked to people who said, Well, my grandmother tells me the story when she was a little kid, you know, they would serve like you say the syrup was used in that manner as well. And you still, by the way, can buy just the syrup. But you have to get it in like 10-pound bags or something. Some of them I think, Sam's Club and places like that. So anyhow, back to the story about the cocaine as it is. Well, the coca leaf when it was used for the Coca Cola syrup was not processed the same way that when they made cocaine, but Consequently, it had the ultimate Coca Cola syrup and a slight residual that was similar to cocaine because they use the coca leaf and Acer Kemmler got so tired of hearing Oh, it's addictive. It's got cocaine in it, that he spent literally thousands and thousands of dollars with chemists, pharmacists, whatever to make sure (this was in the 20s) that there would be no trace ever could they ever find a trace of anything that would resemble cocaine or anything like that? So no, there is not today and there really wasn't ever cocaine but yes, there is the coca leaf.

Marlana: Interesting. And you know, we found today that sugar can be just as addictive so

Larry: A lot of them you know, they use Well, cocoa has come out with as other brands no sugar, you know, right. And they've tweaked the formula to replace that sweetness, and Coca Cola I mean, the flavors and the different things that they try just with Coca Cola, not to mention their other beverages. I'm not a Coca Cola addict by the way. My latest Coca Cola love is their new Coca Cola coffee flavor. I don't know if you've tried it.

Marlana: I have not, I didn't even know it existed.

Larry: Yeah, they make it in three flavors. Mine I like Too Dark. I know there's a vanilla and I forget what the other one is, and it's in those nice long narrow cans and everybody's using now and its Coca Cola coffee. my favorite trick with it is I will open one and let it get flat. I don't drink the whole can in time anyhow. So, when it gets partially flat, the coffee flavor seems to come through a little bit stronger. So, I enjoy that. And I'm not real crazy about carbonation anyhow. So, Coca Cola coffee, but, you know, if you look at Coca Cola, they're always on top of the trends, whatever, not just the Coca Cola trends. But how many other products? You know, I don't know if you're aware or your viewers are aware that the milk product right now called Furr Life that's owned by Coca Cola.

Marlana: Interesting.

Larry: They bought into that company because they liked what they were doing and producing that quality milk. And they got so into it, that they bought the whole company. They've recently done the same thing What's the Powerade? It's a competitor to Gatorade, right? They had a small ownership portion in Powerade. And about two, three months ago, it was announced that they bought that out. And of course, Gatorade better watch out. Because when Coca Cola gets a hold of something, they start to promote it. And right, you may soon see on the football field, the big containers of power eight big poured over the coaches.

MARLANA: as you know, it just goes to show you that when you have a strong brand, and when you build a strong brand, you can branch off into other things. But what's interesting about Coca Cola is that all the other things that they've branched out into are still beverages.

Larry: Right? They have not gotten into aerial, you know, cookies and candies and all that kind of stuff with the other people that make refreshment so to speak you've gotten into, and I think it's interesting to watch them because you'll see products come and go with Coca Cola. I think a classic example. Do you remember the story of the new Coca Cola?

Marlana: Yes! Yes!

Larry: Well, it's interesting as to how that happened. That was about the time that Pepsi was doing the Pepsi Challenge. Yeah. You could sample two different unmarked beverages. Take a sip of each one. And which one would you prefer? But Pepsi was winning that competition? It was driving Coca Cola bonkers with that thing. So, Coca Cola, what's going on? And they determined that Pepsi was sweeter. That's why people weren't healthy. That's what people wanted. Well, the fact of the matter is that if you sample two different drinks, and one is sweeter, chances are you're going to pick the sweeter one. But in the long haul, are you going to drink a can? Or a bottle of which one? And it was the last thing flavor the enjoyable flavor of Coca Cola? And no, I'm not a Coca Cola employee. But that's what people wanted. And Coca Cola didn't realize that. In doing the book, I ran across stories bottlers would say that their salespeople who are their delivery men would be in the grocery store when the New Coke was out. And little old ladies would come up and threaten them if you don't bring back my coca cola...

Marlana: Oh, that's funny!

Larry: Finally, after two years of who knows how much money spent promoting the new Coca Cola, they realized it wasn't gonna go and they pulled you know, recently they brought it back for fun on Unlimited Edition just you know, memories, but they don't always keep everything. You'll see occasionally they announced a couple of months ago that they were pulling some brands that weren't performing. So, they stay on top of it, you know?

Marlana: Yeah. And you know, you talked a little bit before about the container for the coffee flavored one. But talk to us a little bit about the original bottle.

Larry: Oh! That's a great story. You know, back in the when Coca Cola started getting pretty popular, cola was the magic kiddo. So, everybody's gonna say bottlers started making cola drinks. There was Coca Cola with a K you know, K Coca Cola, there was Chiro cola. There was one time I looked it up I found over 100 Different knockoffs so to speak using them to earn cola. While at that time, this we're talking about early 1900s bottles were an issue. You bottled in whatever you could find. So consequently, the consumer when he went to the store, if the bottles had Cola on it must be Coca Cola, and Coca Cola. So, wait a minute, we have got to deal with this. 1905 They issued a challenge to bottle manufacturers. We want our bottle. We want to exclusive; we're going to patent it. We want one of you by lawyers to create the Bible and they made a competition of there were six bottle manufacturers that entered the competition. In 1905. They had a meeting of Coca Cola bottlers in Atlanta to select the bottle while the one they selected was made by the root Glass Company in Terre Haute, Indiana. And you ever go to Terre Haute, They are so proud. It you'll see it all over town that they are the birthplace of the bottle. So, they six monitors bring their bottles to Atlanta, the barber selects the bottle from the root glass company. So, Ruth gets the exclusive rights, they actually root patented the Bible. And it was I think about 20 years later, where Coca Cola was able to buy that patent from the Bible manufacturer. But the interesting thing, you've got six companies each brought five bottles to that meeting. After the wing bottle was selected, you had to destroy the other bottles. They were all supposed to be destroyed. And for Coca Cola, one of the bottles was to be kept in the archives, which it is and Coca Cola. The rest of them were supposed to be destroyed. But one escaped.

Marlana: Okay, let's do those road bottles.

Larry: it is Escaped And two years ago, it resurfaced at estate auction in California. And it sold for over $150,000.

Marlana: Wow.

Larry: Yeah, we used to take vows back for two cents, right?

Marlana: Yeah.

Larry: That bad. And the reason we know it was that bottle is on the bottom of it, it had the date 1905. Coca Cola never used that bottle in the bottling process until 1906. It was in fact a surviving prototype bottle. I talked to the auction company. Needless to say, they wouldn't tell me who bought the bottle locked up some. That's for sure. You know, so and no bottle collecting. It's like everything else would go call the people look at the Coca Cola logo edits on everything. I mean, you know,...