What if the way many of us were taught to grow spiritually actually cost us intimacy with God?

In this episode of Return To Heart, Jeff and Phil explore a story that shaped decades of faith, discipleship, and emotional disconnection—beginning in a Yale dorm room in 1980 and unfolding into a powerful conversation about facts, feelings, faith, and how God actually designed us.

Through vivid metaphors—the chalkboard, the train, the chair, and even a man riding an elephant—this conversation challenges the idea that spiritual maturity means suppressing emotion. Instead, it invites listeners into a fuller, relational faith where truth about God and truth about ourselves belong together.

This episode is for anyone who:

1. Knows the “right answers” but still feels distant from God
2. Was taught that emotions are dangerous or unspiritual
3. Feels spiritually mature yet relationally disconnected
4. Wants a faith that includes their whole heart

This is not about abandoning truth.

It’s about learning how truth actually transforms.