A conversation with Emily Neumeier (Temple University) about Ali Pasha of Ioannina (d. 1822), a powerful Ottoman governor of Albanian origin who created a quasi-independent realm at a time when the Ottoman empire was feared to be collapsing. We talk about how he crated his own brand-image, in part by forging closer relations with his Christian Greek subjects and also through archaeological work and use of antiquities. His was an almost post-imperial world, but the nation-state had not yet arrived. We also talk about the concept of the "post-Byzantine," which is used, especially in art history, for works of this period. The conversation is based on three of Emily's articles -- "Mediating Legacies of Empire," "Rivaling Elgin," and "Spoils for the New Pyrrhus" -- that you can find on her academia webpage.