In this powerful episode of Warden’s Watch, Pennsylvania Game Wardens Phil Bietsch & TJ Knash share the story of a career-defining poaching case tied to the tragic death of fellow officer David Grove on Veteran’s Day 2010. From building trust to securing confessions, this case is a masterclass in investigative work and emotional resilience. Listen now to hear how justice was served, and a legacy honored.

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Here’s what we discuss:

·       Phil and TJ were classmates at the Ross Leffler School of Conservation

·       Working as neighboring officers for four years, they’ve developed a strong investigative partnership

·       Emphasis on teamwork, rhythm in interviews, and rapport-building

·       Ryan Laumann is a known habitual game law offender

·       The case ties back to the tragic death of Game Warden Dave Grove in 2010, who was murdered by Chris Johnson during a poaching incident

·       Laumann was a passenger in the vehicle

·       Laumann “just went home.”

·       Johnson is now on death row

·       Equipment and training were improved

·       Laumann received a five-year license revocation

·       A tip from a former violator turned informant via Operation Game Thief

·       “I got away with it once, I can do it again.”

·       TJ took the lead

·       Keeping emotions in check

·       “Take your time.”

·       Officers conducted surveillance near Laumann’s residence

·       Multiple deer carcasses, gut piles, and antlers

·       Officers used rapport and strategic interviewing to gain Laumann’s trust

·       Jeff Baile’s interview and interrogation techniques were critical

·       Allowing the suspect to tell their version of the story

·       Laumann eventually confesses to killing multiple deer

·       From a good case to a great case

·       “Rapport is the foundation of everything.”

·       Laumann was charged with:

·       Final penalties: 5-year hunting license revocation and $2,800 in fines

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

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