Warden's Watch

181 Lt. Jason McHenry - Alabama

Lt. Jason McHenry joins Wayne from Alabama for the first-ever Warden's Watch interview from the

Yellowhammer State. Jason looks back on a career path that took him from Alabama State Trooper to

youth minister and back into law enforcement as a Conservation Enforcement Officer. The conversation

covers Alabama's unique hunting opportunities, year-round wildlife enforcement challenges, innovative

hunter education programs, and one of the most distinctive conservation K-9 programs in North

America.

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Don Noyes Chevrolet

North American Game Warden Museum

Hunt Regs

WiseEye

SecureIt Gun Storage

XS Sights

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Iron Skillet Seasonings

Maine Operation Game Thief

New Hampshire Operation Game Thief

Conservation Officers of Pennsylvania

North East Conservation Law Enforcement Chiefs Association

International Wildlife Crimestoppers

North American Wildlife Enforcement Officers Association

Here’s what we discuss:

 Alabama becomes the latest state added to the Warden's Watch map

 Jason's recent promotion to Lieutenant

 Balancing administration with field work and mentoring officers

 Alabama's law enforcement structure and conservation districts

 Hunter education returning under law enforcement oversight

 Public shooting ranges and firearms education programs

 Archery in Schools programs and state tournaments

 Mentor hunts for new deer and turkey hunters

 Fishing outreach and recruitment of new outdoorsmen

 The importance of teaching firearm safety to youth

 "I'd much rather them be familiar with a firearm so that they can be safe with it."

 Jason's family connection to law enforcement

 Six years as an Alabama State Trooper

 Leaving law enforcement for youth and urban ministry

 Returning to public service and joining Conservation Enforcement

 Similarities between highway patrol and game warden work

 The investigative nature of conservation law enforcement

 Long-term wildlife investigations that can take years to develop

 Alabama's lengthy hunting seasons

 Three-buck annual limit for hunters

 A doe-a-day harvest opportunity throughout much of the season

 Alabama's successful whitetail deer restoration history

 Year-round enforcement responsibilities

 Feral hog and coyote hunting permits

 Turkey, dove, waterfowl, fishing, and alligator seasons

 "We stay busy year round."

 Search and rescue support operations

 Assisting with tornado recovery and disaster response

 Rural operations and trauma medicine training

 Cottonmouths, alligators, and other southern wildlife challenges

 Alabama's record-setting alligator harvest

 Alligator tag lotteries and hunting opportunities

 Resident-only alligator permits

 The challenge of constantly changing wildlife regulations

 Trail camera restrictions and fair chase discussions

 Modern hunting technology and hunter "hit lists"

 Growing use of thermal optics and night vision devices

 Investigating illegal thermal hunting cases

 The impact of technology on wildlife law enforcement

 Drones and the future of wildlife enforcement challenges

 The importance of public tips and cooperation

 Alabama's unique conservation K-9 program

 Beagles used to track wildlife violators

 Partnership with the Alabama Department of Corrections

 Finding non-barking beagles ideal for conservation work

 Meet Jason's tracking dog, Poundcake

 A turkey poaching case solved with K-9 tracking

 Tracking a suspect from the scene back to his hunting camp

 A turkey hunter accidentally shot while using a decoy

 Another successful beagle-assisted investigation

 Tracking and apprehending night hunters

 Recovering firearms and locating fleeing suspects

 The public relations benefits of using beagles

 "It's hard to have a bad day."

 The rewards of a career as a game warden

 The bond shared between conservation officers across North America

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

Subscribe:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Amazon

Google

Waypoint

Stitcher

TuneIn

Megaphone

Find More Here:

Website

Warden’s Watch / TGL Store

Facebook

Facebook Fan Page

Instagram

Threads

YouTube

RSS

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

180 Will Seegers - Vermont

Vermont Game Warden Will Seegers joins Wayne to discuss life as a conservation officer in the Green

Mountain State. From water survival training and cold-water emergencies to boating safety, ice rescue,

and working Vermont's lakes and waterways, Will shares stories from the field and lessons learned

throughout his career.

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Don Noyes Chevrolet

North American Game Warden Museum

Hunt Regs

WiseEye

SecureIt Gun Storage

XS Sights

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Iron Skillet Seasonings

Maine Operation Game Thief

New Hampshire Operation Game Thief

Conservation Officers of Pennsylvania

North East Conservation Law Enforcement Chiefs Association

International Wildlife Crimestoppers

North American Wildlife Enforcement Officers Association

Here’s what we discuss:

 Will's path to becoming a Vermont Game Warden

 Seven years on the job and finding his stride

 Training and mentoring the next generation of wardens

 Becoming involved in instructor and field training roles

 NASBLA officer water survival training

 Why game wardens work in high-risk water environments

 How duty gear affects swimming and survival

 Experiencing full-uniform water immersion training

 Learning to function in realistic emergency scenarios

 Creating flotation devices from duty pants

 Surprising lessons about ballistic vests in the water

 "The biggest surprise for me was just how quickly you fatigue wearing duty gear in the water."

 Which pieces of equipment become the biggest burden

 Firearm retention and survival considerations

 When equipment can be replaced and when it can't

 Psychological challenges of abandoning gear

 Cold water immersion and ice rescue realities

 Why panic is often the greatest danger after falling through the ice

 The importance of spreading body weight and self-rescue techniques

 The story behind a game warden earning the nickname "Otter"

 Life jackets and why experienced wardens wear them more often as their careers progress

 Inflatable PFDs versus inherently buoyant life jackets

 Potential failure points with inflatable life jackets

 Why checking CO₂ cartridges matters

 Officer safety considerations around waterways

 Real-world case studies involving law enforcement encounters in the water

 How quickly a routine contact can become a life-threatening situation

 "All you need is to be near water and it could become a relevant variable in what unfolds."

 Running Vermont's first officer water survival courses

 Teaching wardens how to protect themselves during falls from boats and docks

 Extrication techniques and getting back aboard safely

 Why the training is practical rather than "high-speed" tactical instruction

 The value of experiencing problems before they happen for real

 Lake Champlain and the challenges of large-water operations

 Open-water survival techniques

 Conserving energy and body heat while awaiting rescue

 Vermont's world-class fishing opportunities

 State-record fish from Lake Champlain

 The legend of Champ, Lake Champlain's famous lake monster

 Expanding water survival training throughout Vermont and neighboring agencies

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

Subscribe:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Amazon

Google

Waypoint

Stitcher

TuneIn

Megaphone

Find More Here:

Website

Warden’s Watch / TGL Store

Facebook

Facebook Fan Page

Instagram

Threads

YouTube

RSS

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What happens when a national-security crisis reaches your own backyard—and you refuse to look away?

In this Thin Green Line episode of Warden’s Watch, John Nores and Wayne Saunders welcome Cory Gautereaux, founder of The GOAT Initiative, for a firsthand look at border security, intelligence gathering, human trafficking and environmental crime along the California–Mexico border.

Cory is a San Diego County native, U.S. Army veteran, Christian, husband, father of two daughters and small-business owner. He grew up exploring the same East County trails where he now conducts field operations.

Before founding The GOAT Initiative, Cory served as a UH-60 Black Hawk crew chief and door gunner. He later worked as a respiratory therapist on rapid-response and trauma teams.

When the border surge reached his rural community, Cory began finding discarded passports, children’s identification documents, abandoned cellphones and evidence of cartel activity. He also encountered individuals identified as Special Interest Aliens. Recognizing that valuable intelligence was being left behind, Cory created The GOAT Initiative to document it and deliver actionable information to local, state and federal law-enforcement agencies.

The GOAT Initiative now operates a 24/7 intelligence effort focused on trafficking networks, smuggling routes and potential homeland-security threats. Cory has testified before Congress and briefed senior officials in Washington on border security, human trafficking and related national-security concerns.

The conversation also examines illegal cannabis operations and their effects on California’s water, wildlife and wildlands. Cory describes suspected water theft, destroyed vegetation, hazardous chemicals and troubling conditions reportedly found where workers were living. John draws upon his decades investigating cartel-operated grow sites to explain how these crimes affect ecosystems, rural communities and already-limited enforcement resources.

In this episode:

• How The GOAT Initiative began
• Cory’s work along the California–Mexico border
• Discarded passports, children’s IDs and recovered cellphones
• Special Interest Aliens and potential homeland-security threats
• Using trail cameras and community knowledge to gather intelligence
• Human trafficking and organized smuggling networks
• Communication gaps among local, state and federal agencies
• Illegal cannabis operations and suspected water theft
• Damage to wildlife, waterways and wildlands
• Labor-exploitation concerns at illegal grow sites
• Challenges facing Border Patrol agents and military personnel
• How veterans, ranchers and rural residents could become force multipliers
• Getting actionable intelligence into the hands of people who can act

Learn more or support the mission:

The GOAT Initiative
https://thegoatinitiative.org

Follow Cory and TGI:

X and Instagram: @thecorygoat
X and Instagram: @thegoatinitiative

This episode contains firsthand accounts, personal opinions and discussion of suspected or ongoing criminal activity. Some allegations and circumstances discussed have not been independently adjudicated.

Listen, share and help bring attention to the connection between border security, human trafficking, environmental crime, wildlife protection and public safety.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

179 Saving Oka – With NH Turtle Rescue

In this episode of Warden’s Watch, Wayne follows up on the disturbing New Hampshire turtle cruelty

case by sitting down with Dallas Huggins and Drew Stevens of the New Hampshire Turtle Rescue. They

share Oka the turtle’s recovery story, explain the challenges facing native turtle populations, and

highlight the conservation work needed to protect these remarkable animals for generations to come.

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Don Noyes Chevrolet

North American Game Warden Museum

Hunt Regs

WiseEye

SecureIt Gun Storage

XS Sights

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Iron Skillet Seasonings

Maine Operation Game Thief

New Hampshire Operation Game Thief

Conservation Officers of Pennsylvania

North East Conservation Law Enforcement Chiefs Association

International Wildlife Crimestoppers

North American Wildlife Enforcement Officers Association

Here’s what we discuss:

 Why Wayne wanted to learn more about turtle rescue after covering the turtle cruelty case

 Wayne’s story about rescuing an injured crow nicknamed “Survivor”

 Meeting Dallas Huggins and Drew Stevens from New Hampshire Turtle Rescue

 How Oka the turtle got her name

 The rescue’s annual naming themes for turtles

 Reports of turtle crossing signs being vandalized in Hillsboro

 Growing concerns about an unusually high number of dead turtles on one road

 Neighbors documenting suspicious activity around turtle crossing areas

 The night Oka was discovered

 Volunteer transporters helped get Oka to the rescue

 The extent of Oka’s shell injuries

 Emergency treatment, pain management, and stabilization efforts

 “What pain has a turtle ever done to anybody?”

 Conservation Officer Zach Abrahamson’s investigation

 The use of a turtle decoy during the investigation

 Charges laid against the offender

 Discussion about penalties and wildlife cruelty laws

 Public reaction to the case

 Gaps in legal protections for some turtle species

 Efforts to strengthen New Hampshire’s turtle protection regulations

 The dangers of people taking wild turtles home as pets

 Challenges caused by improper care and disease transmission

 The impact of illegal turtle collection and the pet trade

 How Oka’s shell repair differed from typical vehicle-strike injuries

 Concerns about possible spinal damage and paralysis

 The painstaking process of cleaning and rebuilding a damaged shell

 Discovering that Oka was still carrying an egg after the attack

 Recovery updates and Oka’s progress

 “She’s acting like a normal turtle.”

 Why the rescue believes the case should serve as a catalyst for change

 The origins of New Hampshire Turtle Rescue

 Learning wildlife rehabilitation through raptor and general wildlife care

 Taking over turtle rehabilitation work from a retiring mentor

 Expectations of a few turtle cases turning into hundreds

 Growing demand for turtle-specific wildlife rehabilitation

 Why roads are the biggest threat facing many turtle populations

 The importance of habitat conservation

 How long-lived turtle species struggle to recover from population losses

 The role of wetlands, vernal pools, and connected habitats

 Wildlife-friendly culverts and safe road crossings

 Efforts to improve crossings for Blanding’s turtles and other species

 Why rehabilitation is only a temporary solution without habitat protection

 Moving turtles safely across roads

 Seasonal turtle movements beyond nesting season

 Fall migrations to overwintering sites

 The remarkable site fidelity of native turtles

 “The best way to help turtles is land conservation.”

 How listeners can support New Hampshire Turtle Rescue

 Resources available for people who find injured turtles

 The rescue’s mission to help an ever-growing number of turtles

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

Subscribe:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Amazon

Google

Waypoint

Stitcher

TuneIn

Megaphone

Find More Here:

Website

Warden’s Watch / TGL Store

Facebook

Facebook Fan Page

Instagram

Threads

YouTube

RSS

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

178 The Turtle Trap – With Zach Abrahamsson

A quiet back road, a string of dead turtles, and a community determined to protect local wildlife.

Conservation Officer Zach Abrahamsson joins Warden's Watch to tell the incredible story behind "The

Turtle Trap," an investigation that used a toy turtle decoy to catch a suspect responsible for a shocking

act of wildlife cruelty. From citizen observations to undercover surveillance, this episode highlights the

challenges of proving wildlife crimes and the importance of protecting vulnerable species.

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Don Noyes Chevrolet

North American Game Warden Museum

Hunt Regs

WiseEye

SecureIt Gun Storage

XS Sights

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Iron Skillet Seasonings

Maine Operation Game Thief

New Hampshire Operation Game Thief

Conservation Officers of Pennsylvania

North East Conservation Law Enforcement Chiefs Association

International Wildlife Crimestoppers

North American Wildlife Enforcement Officers Association

Here’s what we discuss:

 Wayne welcomes Zach Abrahamsson from New Hampshire Fish and Game.

 The case begins on Bog Road in Hillsboro, New Hampshire.

 Residents install turtle crossing signs to protect nesting turtles.

 The signs begin disappearing.

 Someone leaves a handwritten message demanding the signs be removed.

 Witnesses notice a local resident repeatedly driving a side-by-side up and down the road.

 Dead turtles begin appearing along a short stretch of roadway.

 Concerned citizens carefully track the number of turtles being found.

 Fifteen turtles are found dead over a short period.

 A nesting turtle catches the attention of nearby residents.

 Witnesses watch as a man picks up the turtle, places it in the road, and stomps on it.

 The injured turtle survives and is rushed to a licensed rehabilitator.

 The turtle is expected to make a full recovery.

 Hillsboro Police contact Fish and Game to investigate.

 Zach discusses New Hampshire's wildlife cruelty law.

 Officers begin planning a proactive operation.

 Fellow officer James Benvenuti suggests using a toy turtle as a decoy.

 "My son has this toy turtle."

 The realistic decoy is placed along the road.

 Officers hide nearby and wait.

 A passing vehicle unintentionally disrupts part of the operation.

 Zach spends several tense moments hiding behind a large boulder.

 "My heart was pounding."

 The suspect spots the decoy turtle.

 He turns around and deliberately drives over it.

 The action is captured on video.

 The suspect immediately heads home afterward.

 Officers explain the difference between circumstantial evidence and proof beyond a reasonable

doubt.

 Zach breaks down how wildlife cases are built for court.

 The chargeable offense centers on the turtle that witnesses observed being stomped.

 The decoy operation helps reinforce the investigative findings.

 Zach explains the difference between felony and misdemeanor wildlife cruelty charges.

 The discussion turns to officer discretion and appropriate punishment.

 "The most important thing is getting this guy to stop doing this."

 The suspect pleads guilty to the charges.

 The case results in fines and a criminal record.

 Public reaction to the case is intense.

 Balancing accountability with changing behavior.

 The importance of reporting suspicious wildlife activity.

 Zach explains the conservation impact of losing multiple turtles.

 Remarkably, the famous turtle decoy survives the operation with only a cracked shell.

 The battle-scarred decoy earns permanent trophy status among the officers.

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

Subscribe:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Amazon

Google

Waypoint

Stitcher

TuneIn

Megaphone

Find More Here:

Website

Warden’s Watch / TGL Store

Facebook

Facebook Fan Page

Instagram

Threads

YouTube

RSS

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

W10 Lisa Feener & Kelly Irwin – Pack Life

Kelly Irwin and Lisa Feener join the podcast to share their experiences in the world of hound hunting,

from raising generations of bear dogs to navigating a traditionally male-dominated sport. This

conversation explores memorable hunts, dog breeding, wildlife behavior, mentorship, and the deep

bond between houndsmen and their dogs. More than anything, this episode is about the dogs, the

people who love them, and the traditions that keep the sport alive.

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Don Noyes Chevrolet

North American Game Warden Museum

Hunt Regs

WiseEye

SecureIt Gun Storage

XS Sights

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Iron Skillet Seasonings

Maine Operation Game Thief

New Hampshire Operation Game Thief

Conservation Officers of Pennsylvania

North East Conservation Law Enforcement Chiefs Association

International Wildlife Crimestoppers

North American Wildlife Enforcement Officers Association

Here’s what we discuss:

 Meeting through New Hampshire Bear Hunters Association field trials

 Why women are still relatively uncommon in hound hunting

 The term houndsmen and why neither guest worries much about labels

 Keeping things simple and focusing on the dogs

 Kelly's introduction to hunting with hounds after meeting her husband

 Falling in love with the sport almost immediately

 Building a family bloodline that now stretches six generations

 Lisa's first exposure to hound hunting while working on bear research

 Using hounds to capture and study radio-collared bears

 Discovering that hounds are more than just tools

 "Of course they're dogs. They're going to want to play, they're going to want to snuggle, and

they just have this really intense job."

 Driving hours to learn more about dogs and hound hunting

 Mentorship, friendship, and learning the craft together

 "I want you to have a real bear dog."

 Trial and error while building a successful pack

 Learning to manage different dog personalities and abilities

 The differences men and women can bring to dog training

 Reading dogs through their voices, behavior, and body language

 Understanding each dog's strengths and weaknesses

 Memorable hunts in steep mountains and rugged terrain

 Recovering dogs from cliffs and navigating difficult country

 A successful bear hunt that led to an unexpected encounter with hikers

 Turning curiosity into a positive educational experience

 Common misconceptions about hunting with hounds

 "The strongest relationship you can have with an animal is to hunt with it."

 Why most houndsmen are motivated by the dogs, not the harvest

 "It's not about how many bears you can kill. For most houndsmen, it's about the dogs."

 Watching young dogs develop and gain confidence

 The excitement of a puppy figuring things out for the first time

 "Some of the most memorable hunts are when the puppies learn a thing."

 Catch-and-release bear hunting during training season

 Understanding bear behavior and seasonal food sources

 Following clues from what bears are eating

 Studying movement patterns and habitat use

 Building bloodlines and preserving desirable traits

 The role genetics plays in creating successful hunting dogs

 "You have full ownership over the outcome of that dog."

 Why local bloodlines often perform best in local conditions

 Hunting differences between northern New Hampshire and northern Maine

 Water crossings, cold trailing, and challenging terrain

 How regional conditions shape dogs over generations

 Hunting with children and introducing the next generation

 The teamwork required to manage a successful hound hunt

 Working together through guide camps and outdoor adventures

 Processing bears in the woods rather than rushing back to camp

 Slowing down and appreciating the entire experience

 "Take time to smell the roses."

 Why the journey matters more than the harvest

 Looking ahead to another season with the dogs

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

Subscribe:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Amazon

Google

Waypoint

Stitcher

TuneIn

Megaphone

Find More Here:

Website

Warden’s Watch / TGL Store

Facebook

Facebook Fan Page

Instagram

Threads

YouTube

RSS

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

177 The Creek Kings Case – With Mark Williams

What happens when modern poaching meets social media fame? Ohio Wildlife Officer Mark Williams

shares the story of the Creek Kings case, an investigation that exposed years of illegal deer hunting

hidden behind a successful YouTube channel. What began with a park visitor finding hunting equipment

in a metro park quickly grew into a massive digital investigation involving trail cameras, cell phone data,

deleted evidence, fake hunting locations, sponsorship money, and some very ambitious trophy hunters.

Mark takes us through the case from the first clue to the final sentencing and explains how technology

helped both the offenders and the officers who caught them.

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Don Noyes Chevrolet

North American Game Warden Museum

Hunt Regs

WiseEye

SecureIt Gun Storage

XS Sights

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Iron Skillet Seasonings

Maine Operation Game Thief

New Hampshire Operation Game Thief

Conservation Officers of Pennsylvania

North East Conservation Law Enforcement Chiefs Association

International Wildlife Crimestoppers

North American Wildlife Enforcement Officers Association

Here’s what we discuss:

 Meet Ohio Wildlife Officer Mark Williams

 Why Mark calls this a "21st century poaching case"

 The rise of wildlife commercialization through social media

 The Creek Kings Outdoors YouTube channel

 Hunting for views, sponsorships, and online fame

 A park visitor discovers hunting equipment in Three Creeks Metro Park

 Metro Park Ranger Stefan Brook gets involved

 Building partnerships before a major case pays off

 Trail cameras, tree stands, and ATV trails in the park

 Investigators identify two cousins as suspects

 Zach Bethel and Justin Booth become the focus

 How cellular trail cameras changed the investigation

 "It would have been impossible for them to do what they did without technology, and

impossible for us to stop them without ours."

 Rangers document repeated hunting activity

 Officers begin monitoring the YouTube channel

 Hunting equipment, filming gear, and surveillance cameras

 The challenge of predicting suspect movements

 Rangers catch the suspects entering the park

 Excuses about lost dogs and accidental hunting

 Contradictions begin piling up

 Hidden cameras and deleted messages

 Evidence tampering enters the picture

 "The only lesson they learned was not to hunt it with equipment they couldn't carry out."

 Search warrants for phones and digital devices

 Suspects underestimate the investigation

 Recovering deleted information

 Discovering years of illegal activity

 Investigators realize the case is much bigger than expected

 Illegal deer linked to YouTube content

 Prodigy, Turkeyfoot, Wide 10, and other named bucks

 Hunting places they had no permission to hunt

 Recovering deer across multiple properties

 The fake Kentucky hunts

 Deer allegedly harvested in Kentucky were actually killed in Ohio

 Manipulating videos to create a false story

 Property owners misled by the suspects

 Sponsors unknowingly backing illegal hunting content

 "These guys made tens of thousands in material and monetary wealth from illegally killing

wildlife."

 Investigators spend months analyzing phones, computers, drones, and photos

 Five years of documented activity uncovered

 The Metro Park becomes their "cheat code"

 Conversations about avoiding detection

 Planning future fake Kentucky hunts

 Using drones to locate deer

 Hunting-related drone violations

 Evidence from podcasts, texts, videos, and photos

 How social media became a treasure trove of evidence

 The decision to focus on the strongest charges

 Cooperation between wildlife officers, park rangers, prosecutors, and tech specialists

 76 total charges filed

 Plea agreements and guilty pleas

 Over $29,000 in wildlife restitution

 More than $37,000 in total financial penalties

 Nine days of jail time

 Five-year revocation of hunting, fishing, and trapping privileges

 Wildlife Violator Compact consequences across North America

 Ban from Metro Parks and Alum Creek State Park

 Restrictions on possessing hunting equipment

 "They treated it like their own private preserve."

 The damage done to sponsors and supporters

 Hunters who felt betrayed by the channel

 The dangers of chasing fame and online success

 Lessons for conservation officers facing digital-era wildlife crimes

 Why Mark believes more cases like this are coming

 The importance of protecting public resources

 Final thoughts on greed, accountability, and conservation

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

Subscribe:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Amazon

Google

Waypoint

Stitcher

TuneIn

Megaphone

Find More Here:

Website

Warden’s Watch / TGL Store

Facebook

Facebook Fan Page

Instagram

Threads

YouTube

RSS

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

176 Open Fields Doctrine - With Chief Travis McLain

This week on Warden's Watch, Wayne sits down with Missouri Department of Conservation Chief of

Protection Travis McLain to tackle one of the most misunderstood topics in conservation law: the Open

Fields Doctrine. As both a conservation officer and attorney, Travis breaks down where the doctrine

came from, what it actually means, and why protecting wildlife resources requires a balance between

private property rights and public trust responsibilities.

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Don Noyes Chevrolet

North American Game Warden Museum

Hunt Regs

WiseEye

SecureIt Gun Storage

XS Sights

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Iron Skillet Seasonings

Maine Operation Game Thief

New Hampshire Operation Game Thief

Conservation Officers of Pennsylvania

North East Conservation Law Enforcement Chiefs Association

International Wildlife Crimestoppers

North American Wildlife Enforcement Officers Association

Here’s what we discuss:

 Why the Open Fields Doctrine continues to generate confusion

 Common myths about game warden authority

 How conservation officers operate under the same constitutional protections and

limitations as other law enforcement officers

 The origins of the Open Fields Doctrine and Hester v. United States

 What the Fourth Amendment protects and what it doesn't

 Why open fields are different from homes, curtilage, papers, and personal effects

 "The Constitution really does apply to conservation officers, just like other police officers."

 Why there isn't a game warden behind every tree

 How conservation officers prioritize calls, complaints, and active hunting and fishing activity

 Respecting private landowners while protecting public wildlife resources

 The connection between the Open Fields Doctrine and the Public Trust Doctrine

 How wildlife belongs to all citizens, not individual landowners

 The history of wildlife management in North America

 Robin Hood, the King's deer, and the roots of wildlife law

 Why the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is unique

 The role of science and public input in setting regulations

 Wildlife management as a balance of biological and social factors

 Missouri's recovery from just 2,000 deer to around a million!

 "What got us there when they start thinking about totally upsetting the apple cart or

changing the system."

 How conservation law enforcement supports long-term wildlife sustainability

 The importance of relationships between agencies, landowners, and sportsmen

 Why 93% of Missouri being privately owned creates unique challenges

 What could happen if conservation officers couldn't investigate wildlife violations on private

land

 The role regulations play in protecting future generations of wildlife

 Why enforcement is about protecting resources, not writing tickets

 Conservation officers as educators and community partners

 How officers are trained to respect private property rights

 Social media misconceptions about conservation law enforcement

 Why many large landowners welcome conservation officers onto their properties

 Protecting hunting opportunities for everyone

 How officers provide valuable field information back to wildlife biologists

 Baiting, disease transmission, and fair chase concerns

 "Rules without enforcement are just suggestions."

 The Boone and Crockett Club's Poach and Pay study

 Why the biggest deterrent to poaching is the presence of a capable guardian

 How major wildlife cases often begin with small observations in the field

 The difference between making cases and protecting resources

 "It's not about the case. It's about stopping the damage that's being done to the public trust

resource."

 Why successful conservation means more compliant hunters and anglers, not more citations

 Protecting wildlife regardless of land ownership, wealth, or status

 Challenges faced by public land hunters

 Why wildlife moves freely across property boundaries

 The importance of fair and consistent enforcement

 Looking beyond today and managing resources for future generations

 "If we all work together and respect each other, we can continue to keep going into the

future for everybody."

 Final thoughts on balancing private property rights and public wildlife resources

 Debunking the myth of "special powers" held by game wardens

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

Subscribe:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Amazon

Google

Waypoint

Stitcher

TuneIn

Megaphone

Find More Here:

Website

Warden’s Watch / TGL Store

Facebook

Facebook Fan Page

Instagram

Threads

YouTube

RSS

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

175 Jessica Avery – Manitoba, Canada

Jessica Avery from Manitoba Conservation Officer Service joins Wayne at the North American Game

Warden Museum to talk about her career, life as a conservation officer in Manitoba, serving on the

museum’s board of directors, and some of the incredible places game wardens patrol in northern

Canada. From winter road caribou patrols and -60C mornings to fish poaching stakeouts and wildfire

deployments, Jessica shares what makes conservation work in Manitoba both challenging and

rewarding.

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Don Noyes Chevrolet

North American Game Warden Museum

Hunt Regs

WiseEye

SecureIt Gun Storage

XS Sights

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Iron Skillet Seasonings

Maine Operation Game Thief

New Hampshire Operation Game Thief

Conservation Officers of Pennsylvania

North East Conservation Law Enforcement Chiefs Association

International Wildlife Crimestoppers

North American Wildlife Enforcement Officers Association

Here’s what we discuss:

 Jessica explains the Manitoba Conservation Officer Service and how the agency has evolved over

the years

 Her role as Canadian Treasurer for the North American Game Warden Museum

 The unique international location of the museum

 Why the museum is a "pilgrimage" destination for game wardens

 Starting as a seasonal conservation officer in Manitoba

 How Manitoba still offers one of the few seasonal conservation officer programs in Canada

 Growing up in Saskatchewan, calling Alberta home, and building a career in Manitoba

 “I’m really lucky to get to go all those places and do that kind of stuff.”

 Patrolling Manitoba’s remote northern wilderness

 Fly-in caribou patrols and winter road enforcement

 Common caribou hunting violations officers encounter

 Working alongside northern Indigenous communities

 Staying in remote bush camps and nurse barracks

 Northern lights and untouched wilderness in Manitoba’s far north

 Waking up to temperatures around -60C (-76F)

 Trucks refusing to start in extreme cold

 “We were just not as prepared as we probably should have been for those temperatures.”

 Using helicopters and float planes to reach remote areas

 Conservation officers' role in wildfire operations

 Long fire assignments and burnout challenges

 Supporting firefighters with logistics and supplies

 Why Manitoba has experienced severe wildfire conditions

 Human-caused fires versus lightning-caused fires

 Deep-burning peat and bog fires that can survive winter

 Being part of a game warden family

 Why so many Manitoba conservation officers meet their spouses through the job

 Managing a long-distance conservation officer relationship

 Building a family while advancing both careers

 Moving from field work into headquarters leadership roles

 Life on Manitoba’s endless prairie road system

 Jessica’s favorite game warden story: a winter walleye-poaching stakeout

 Surveillance in -45° temperatures

 Trying not to sound like a “bull in a china shop” while sneaking into position

 Catching poachers who had been using the same spot for years

 “They were shocked.”

 How consistent enforcement led to voluntary compliance

 The value of the North American Game Warden Museum

 Learning from other law enforcement museums across North America

 The surprising success and size of the Game Warden Museum

 “It’s just such a great career, great lifestyle.”

 “I can’t imagine doing anything else with my life other than being a game warden.”

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

Subscribe:

Apple Podcasts

Spotify

Amazon

Google

Waypoint

Stitcher

TuneIn

Megaphone

Find More Here:

Website

Warden’s Watch / TGL Store

Facebook

Facebook Fan Page

Instagram

Threads

YouTube

RSS

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

174 Chris Egan - With Tayton Keezer

This episode brings us a fresh perspective as Conservation Law student Tayton Keezer steps behind the

mic to interview retired New Hampshire CO Chris Egan. What starts as a simple student-to-officer

conversation turns into a mix of mentorship, hard truths, and wild field stories, as Tayton connects what

he’s learning in school to what the job really looks like in the field.

Our Sponsors:

Thin Green Line Podcast

Don Noyes Chevrolet

North American Game Warden Museum

Hunt Regs

WiseEye

SecureIt Gun Storage

XS Sights

“A Cowboy in the Woods” Book

Iron Skillet Seasonings

Maine Operation Game Thief

New Hampshire Operation Game Thief

Conservation Officers of Pennsylvania

North East Conservation Law Enforcement Chiefs Association

International Wildlife Crimestoppers

North American Wildlife Enforcement Officers Association

Here’s what we discuss:

 Tayton stepping in as guest host and kicking things off with Chris

 Chris’ early love for the outdoors and where it came from

 Growing up around hunting, fishing, and camp culture with family

 “I think it’s innate in every kid… it just needs to be fostered.”

 Early influences from his dad and grandfather

 Developing people skills at a young age by learning from others in the field

 The importance of curiosity and asking questions

 The best parts of the job, independence and building your own patrol days

 “Patrolling woods and waters in an area that I love to be in”

 Flexibility in choosing how to work, from boats to ATVs to foot patrol

 Balancing independence with the structured nature of the role

 Least favorite parts - including paperwork and detailed reporting

 The reality that reports can become court evidence

 The harder side of the job: fatalities, searches, and recoveries

 “Those things don’t go away… they’re like a scar in your mind.”

 How difficult calls can stay with you over time

 Advice for young hunters and anglers entering the outdoors

 Concerns about fewer kids spending time outside

 “I just don’t understand how you could be bored outside.”

 The mental health benefits of being outdoors

 The joy and meaning the outdoors brought to Chris’ life

 The balance of the job, rewarding one day and demanding the next

 “Some days you shouldn’t be getting paid… other days you should be getting paid 10 times.”

 Early interactions with wardens and how they shape perception of the role

 Field techniques and tricks learned from other officers

 A case involving illegal exotic animals inside a residence

 Walking into what felt like a zoo inside someone’s home

 A late-night Sasquatch call

 “I had to respond to it without laughing.”

 The risks of working in remote areas at night

 A major poaching case involving a moose shot multiple times

 The long investigation that went unsolved for years

 A last-minute confession just before the statute of limitations expired

 “I’m here to take responsibility for what I did.”

 Accountability, personal change, and closure in that case

 Chris’ approach to enforcement, firm but fair

 The importance of maintaining relationships in small communities

 How those relationships can impact safety and future cases

 Conservation officers as a voice for wildlife

 Encouragement for the next generation entering the field

 Reflecting on a career built on passion, responsibility, and respect

Credits

Hosts: Wayne Saunders and John Nores

Producer: Jay Ammann

Warden’s Watch logo & Design: Ashley Hannett

Research / Content Coordinator: Stacey DesRoches

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices