We start this conversation with L. E. (Bud) Brown talking about some of his exploits on his sailboat with his wife, Lea. But the real story begins when as a young man, he was able to break through his religious traditions and finally realize how to have eternal life. He was saved by grace, but found that he needed grace more than ever because even though the eternal battle was won, his internal battle with pride, competitiveness, and a negative self image kept him sailing against the wind on rough waters. Bud came to realize the love and acceptance that grace brings and found peace. After graduating from Western Seminary and Dallas Theological Seminary and pastoring two churches, he helped start a ministry called Turnaround Churches. He also has an excellent book on the importance of prayer in the church, Lifelessness to New Life: Biblical prayers to resurrect the lifeless church. Bud has other books and ministry projects in mind that we hope to hear about later. You can contact him at [email protected] and find his books on Amazon under L. E. Brown and at TurnAroundPastors.com.