2 Guys And A Chainsaw - A Horror Movie Review Podcast

We turn from last week’s bundle of holiday cheer to about the bleakest, most depressing Christmas horror fare you could find.

Does it intend to make a political statement? Yes. Several. Kind of akin to spending an awkward family holiday dinner with your most overtly racist relatives, it’s not gonna fill you with warmth and goodness. But this is a horror movie, after all, so whaddya expect? So drink up and drink in this highly-emotional feature-length Twilight Zone episode of what happens when a family’s already-awful Christmas Eve festivities get turned completely upside-down.

Episode 419, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, Craig, we’re week two into the Christmas season, and, uh, last week we kicked it off with this just nice and warm, fuzzy feeling Christmas movie. I guess it’s only fitting that we follow it up with a terrible, dark, depressing I guess. Story of Christmas gone wrong when this movie started out It started to feel like a cautionary tale about family that doesn’t get along getting together for the holidays Anyway, but devolved into something else entirely.

What we’re doing is Await Further Instructions. It was a 2018 horror film recommended by a number of our patrons. Yeah. Yeah, I had never heard of it before Obviously hadn’t seen it before it looks like it’s a shutter produced film or co produced film Like I said came out in 2018 and was directed by Johnny Kevorkian who did He did a few things and then, sadly, passed away a couple years after this movie was released.

Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah, of a heart attack. Yeah, this is one of, I think, five or six films that he’s done. And then the writer, Gavin Williams, here, wrote a few things. This, I think, was his very first, uh, feature length credit for writing. And then since then has gone on to be a writer on a couple things.

Just really not much, actually, to be honest with you. This is a British production. And yeah, like I said, I have, I had never seen it before. I’d never heard of it before, but the premise was very intriguing. How about you?

Craig: I watch everything. Right. Uh, so yeah, I’d seen it. 

Todd: Oh, okay. 

Craig: I vaguely, you know, I vaguely remembered it.

I didn’t remember having any strong feelings about it one way or another, but I remembered that there was more than meets the eye to like, The thing that eventually like traps them in the house or whatever. Like I knew where it was going this time around. Okay. Yeah, but I honestly was kind of surprised.

I, I honestly, I think several, multiple people either suggested or specifically requested this movie. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And I was surprised because I just didn’t think anybody knew about it. I just thought it was, you know, one of those. Just random things on the internet that I stumbled across, but I don’t know. Like you said, I mean, ultimately I feel like it’s, it’s commentary about so many things, so many things, but all of it comes, all of it comes down to like, everything is awful.

Like, uh, fam, families are awful. People are awful. Technology is awful. Everything is awful. 

Todd: It’s a really depressing movie to watch at Christmas time. It’s a particularly depressing movie to watch at Christmas time of 2024, to be honest. 

Craig: Well, and I feel like it’s kind of a trick too, because it takes place at Christmas, and like they have Christmas dinner and they open Christmas presents, but it’s almost like that’s the bait to lure you into this movie.

Like Christmas isn’t, it’s not really that important. It could be any family gathering. I suppose that could be said of. A lot of Christmas movies, but that’s true that Christmas takes a backseat aside from a lot of interesting lighting choices Right. I I did like that like the Christmas lighting scheme Made it visually interesting and it was a it’s not a bad movie I I feel like I’m dunking on it already and I don’t mean to because it’s not a bad movie In fact, I think it’s kind of interesting.

Yeah, it’s but it’s not like a Cheerful holiday romp If that’s what you’re looking for, 

Todd: God, no, it’s not at all 

Craig: turn away. 

Todd: Well, I was, I was actually thinking about that myself after I finished watching it. I was like, did this movie really have to take place during Christmas? And you’re right. It could have been Thanksgiving.

It could have been any excuse really for family that is kind of at odds with each other to get together anyway. So I did, when I kind of came back away from my thoughts, I thought, you know, maybe it does at least serve the theme a little bit. Or at least. In a technical way of getting these people together who honestly wouldn’t be getting together otherwise and oftentimes, sadly, that is the holidays for a lot of us.

It is the time for us to get together when we’re far flung, make that extra effort to get everybody in the same room. People who maybe talk on the phone or maybe haven’t seen or heard from each other for a while. In this case, one of the main, basically, I guess you could say the main character, who is Nick, he’s an adult son.

It sounds like he has not been heard from or seen in three years. He hasn’t been calling his family much. He’s been a bit, I guess you could say, estranged from them. And his mother is very happy to welcome him into the house. But his father is just really off putting from the get go. Angry in a way that like I’m still your dad and how dare you come back after not contacting us You know, it’s a very oh my god.

This guy 

Craig: Nick has been estranged from his family I I I’m under the impression that his girlfriend slash fiance. I don’t know on G I I think that it’s very relevant that are the family is Caucasian and on G is Indian. Right. And they’re, they’re also British, which I guess is probably also relevant. Right.

The reason that he’s been estranged for, it seems like she has encouraged him, you know, let’s go to your family’s house for Christmas. You haven’t seen them in a long time. This is subtext. I’m, I’m Reading this into it. Yeah. It’s never, but that’s, 

Todd: that’s it’s, it’s never explicitly stated. Yeah. 

Craig: That’s the feeling I get because it doesn’t really seem like he wants to go.

Like as soon as they get there, he’s like, seriously, I feel like we’re gonna be ruining everybody’s Christmas. And he’s been estranged for three years and the dad’s pissed off about it. It seems like the reason that he’s been estranged for them for that long is because they’re horrible. Awful people.

Yeah. Aside from the mother, the mother seems lovely and you feel so bad for her that she has to live with these other disgusting, nasty people. Yes. I don’t blame him for being a strange and I feel like that’s a, that’s another thing that the movie addresses and very prescient in 2018 because I feel like this is totally relevant right now.

Sometimes it’s really difficult to get together. with your family if you have significant difference in values and all those types of things and this movie suggests just don’t because It’s not gonna end well Whereas most of these holiday movies like even violent night that we did last year a couple years ago Where you know, like it’s bloody and they’re killing everybody Still, the message is, come together as a family and cherish your family.

No, this movie is, if you come together with your family, you will end up killing each other because 

Todd: people are horrible. It’s true. It feels like the movie’s starting out as like a Twilight Zone episode because immediately, well, look, I don’t want to go there yet, but what I’m trying to say is the movie starts that seems to start out as like a classic Twilight Zone episode because it does this high concept premise and it seems to have this moral message that it’s trying to get across at first when I watched it.

I thought, okay, this is like pandemic. Era commentary, right? This is about control and obedience, and to what lengths do we go to to protect each other, to what lengths do we trust the authorities? And 

Craig: that is interesting. I find that part of it interesting. It’s just very bleak. 

Todd: It is. It’s super bleak. And then I checked it, and I was like, oh, this is 2018.

Uh huh. You know, this is actually pre pandemic by two years. And so I thought, okay, well, they’re not making a direct commentary on that, but you can certainly read that into it. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s similar thematic material. You know, this is also one year after Brexit, I guess? And will you add the racism element in there as well?

And these guys are just absolute dicks. The grandfather especially. The grandfather just sits in a chair and cackles maniacally whenever he pisses somebody off with his racist comments. Or here’s his adult son Tony also do the same. 

Clip: I don’t know what’s going on. Letting anyone come flooding in. It’s always got to end like this.

Gramps, you can’t say that. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinions, but still. Mr Milgram, I know we’ve only just met and I don’t know much about your life, but that’s not fair. You’re right. You don’t know anything about Gramps? Kate, please, let’s not blow it out of proportion. Gramps is being out of order.

This country used to be great, till all them Johnny Ackmeds and Bobby Bongo Bongo started coming in. All I’m trying to say is that if we let these things go, then we’re perpetuating those views.

Todd: He just encourages and prods and pokes and seems to love to see this woman squirm and be offended. Of course I hate people like that and it’s nasty. Played by David Bradley, I’m sure you know the face if you don’t know the name. Felch, right? The guy there. But he’s been in a million things. I mean, he’s veteran of the British screen.

Oh, and these people. It didn’t catch this until afterwards. Their surname is the Milgrams, and they are on Stanford Street. Did you catch that? 

Craig: Well, I mean, I read about it, but I don’t really know what all that means. I, I, I know that it has to do with, like, studies on obedience and authority and stuff like that, which this movie becomes, and I think that’s Again, very clever, but I don’t really know much about what those things were.

Todd: You probably were now. I might be jogging your memory a little bit, but it feels like none of us could get through high school or college without talking about the Stanford prison experiment that was conducted by Professor Stanley Milgram, I believe, who set up this experiment in the basement of one of the dormitories at the school.

And had volunteers play prisoners and volunteers play wardens and, and, uh, guards at this fake prison. Of course, they all knew it was fake, right? But, uh, very quickly, it sort of descended into chaos as The guys who were playing the, the wardens and stuff started using their power in pretty cruel ways against these, you know, kids who were playing the prisoners.

And that study’s been cited for decades as a example of how humans, when given power and given control, just seem to maybe have this odd, natural inclination towards using it to make other people suffer. Now, interestingly enough, In the years since then, more has come out about that study, and it’s a lot, it’s a lot more complicated than it was originally presented to me, especially as a kid, and it sounds like the methods, and it sounds like there was actually, Milgram himself interjected himself and gave instructions and commands to people to actually do certain things, and maybe muddy the results a little bit, or at least the grand conclusion of it, so I’m not really willing to go as far, I’m a pretty optimistic person, you know, I would like to think that we’re not always gonna just descend into a lord of The fly situation by default when we’re faced with some difficulty, but we do have some tendencies that we’ve seen, you know, to get us there.

So obviously, you know, naming this family, the Milgrams, they’re on Stanford street, yada, yada, yada. He’s making a direct reference to that as well. And like you said, that is a very definite theme in here. It’s like this family is patriarchy all the way down. And it seems like the kid Nick hates that and is bucking that trend.

He’s like the young, more progressive person marrying this. Who’s got this girlfriend anyway, they weren’t engaged, were they? I can’t remember. I don’t remember. And it, and it pisses his family off and there’s Brexit stuff in here. There’s, there’s a lot of setup for some serious social commentary. 

Craig: Right.

There’s like political, like they’re on opposite sides of the political spectrum. And that’s one thing, you know, that’s fine, whatever. But these people. Like you said, especially the grandfather, but the apple clearly doesn’t fall far from the tree because the dad, I feel like is at least a little bit more diplomatic at first, but the pregnant sister, 

Todd: Oh God, she’s insufferable.

Clip: Six letters. That’s not a real word. It really is. Indian words. Don’t count. It’s English. Shall I get the dictionary again? Don’t be silly. It’s just a bit of fun. 

Craig: She is disgusting! Like, and, she’s People don’t like when we talk politics, so I’m not going to, but I’m gonna talk about the movie, so I’m just gonna say, she’s the character, this character, is stupid, and she’s clearly threatened by Someone who is more intelligent than her the movie establishes this.

I’m not generalizing. Right. It’s true But she’s just ugly like just ugly ugly Blatantly openly racist. I actually found that one of the most difficult things to believe because first of all, I If I were, what’s the main guy’s name? Nick. If I were Nick, I don’t care how much Angie encouraged me to make amends with my family, which I understand.

I have personal experience with this kind of thing. Right. I just, I just would not like, I would just say to her, you don’t understand. My family is horrible. Yeah. And I wouldn’t have done it. And then, and then as soon as any of this, right. Ugly, ugly, blatantly racist shit started happening, I would have been out the door, I would have, like, sent FedEx to pick up my bags, like, you couldn’t have gotten me out of there fast enough.

Yeah. But they don’t. They stay. 

Todd: This is a problem I had with the movie too, is that I felt like the characters were very caricatured and everything was very overplayed. Again, I think it’s in order to service this point, but whereas this kind of thing works for, like, a Twilight Zone episode or something where you only have 20 minutes to tell a story.

For this long hour and a half movie, I expected to see a little more depth. I expected to see a little more explanation. I saw a glimmer of it in the father later on. Right. There’s a moment where his father dies. And so he’s coming to terms with that, and he goes into this little soliloquy monologue, internal monologue, I guess, that he says out loud, revisiting these moments from his childhood where his father gave him these harsh truths, and you can see that he is both I’ve been changed by it and hurt by it, and it’s through his pain, you know, that I don’t know.

I guess you’ve you get this. You’re supposed to get the sense that he’s this asshole guy because he was taught by his father that that’s how you’re supposed to be if you want to be a man. And he’s been trying to live up to that because he’s been seeking the approval of his father that he’s never been getting, which is, I mean, you know, that’s life, that happens, but I just feel like in some of these situations, things wouldn’t have been so black and white.

Craig: I can’t find sympathy for that guy. Yeah. I just like, like, so your dad was a dick. I’m sorry. You know, I never went through anything like that. I had a lovely childhood. So I don’t know what that does to people. But, repeating the cycle, like, What are you doing? I don’t understand how you’re justifying that in your head.

Like, your dad was a dick to you and it ruined you, so you’re gonna do the same thing to your kids? Like, I don’t get it. And I don’t know Well, it goes to 

Todd: certain extremes. Go ahead, sorry. 

Craig: Yeah, it’s just, well, no, I was just gonna say, it’s so hard. Like, I really do like the main people. Nick, who looks like Ronan Farrow, I don’t know.

But he, like, he’s a young, you know, liberal and, and his beautiful girlfriend and, and they seem to be so open minded. I think we’re supposed to sympathize with them. I, I think that, They are supposed to be our surrogates in this. Right. I like them. And then you, you feel awful for the mother who is, you know, when they get there, she embraces them and she’s so glad and, and she’s, She’s trying to keep things together, and she’s trying to avoid conflict and break up conflict and do whatever she can, but the dad, the grandfather, and the sister are just so awful, and the sister has a boyfriend who also seems like he could potentially be kind of redeemable, but he just becomes a puppet for the dad and the sister.

He’s so empty. Well, I kind of felt bad for him in that, like, I felt like he, I mean, you feel a responsibility to your partner, you know, especially she’s vulnerable, she’s pregnant, it’s not, I mean, I guess it’s his fault for being with her, but it’s not his fault that she’s awful and she kind of manipulates him, and then, I’ve never been in this situation because I’ve never had a girlfriend or a wife, but I would assume you want to have a good relationship with your girlfriend.

Wife’s dad, you know, like if your wife’s dad asks you to help him change all the batteries in the fire alarms over Christmas, like my dad does with my brother in law, like you do it because you know what I’m saying? It’s like, I, he seems like a nice guy and I feel kind of bad for him, but ultimately he becomes their puppet and he’s kind of bad too.

So it’s hard to feel. I don’t know. It’s just hard to find sympathy overall. And we really need to get to, okay, so they have this big blow up over dinner. There’s a lot of racist talk, a lot of finger pointing. It’s, it’s horrible. And Nick and Angie don’t leave immediately. She convinces him for some reason to spend the night, even though they have to sleep in separate rooms.

And again, this doesn’t make any sense to me. Why spend the night when they’re, I guess just to avoid conflict, but their plan is they’re going to get up super early in the morning before anybody else is up and they’re going to sneak out and leave. And that’s what they do. They get up super early. They tiptoe around and they go downstairs, but they find that the door is blocked with this black material that I think at some point they think is metal, but immediately to me, it looks weird.

It looks to me, it looks corded like, 

Todd: yeah. Like, 

Craig: corrugated. It’s grooved. Yeah. Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. Like, highly corrugated metal. Not like, you know, with wide corrugations. Very narrow. 

Craig: And it’s black, and it’s covering every entry, including the windows, and eventually the whole family gets up, and they can’t figure out a way out, and then the TV starts talking to them.

And then that happens for the next hour. 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. The TV is black, but it’s got these, actually it looks like the old VHS, you know, you remember, your dad was a big camcorder guy, you remember when you put the titles in your camcorder, it had that particular pixelated font, it’s totally that, which, I thought that was kind of cute, but it just says, stay in your home and await further instructions, hence the title of the movie, they have really no choice, Now instructions start appearing on the, on the screen at first.

They’re like, okay, well, let’s at least have a nice Christmas dinner. And so they prepare this great spread. And of course, there’s more arguing and more racist talk. 

Craig: Oh, and I know it’s all like, 

Clip: oh, we need to wait for more instructions. But in the meantime, we are going to celebrate this special day. As you would any other year.

If we don’t uphold our values and have a proper British Christmas, The term is the wordy one. 

Craig: Right before that, he had stopped the son in law, Scott, and, oh god, this was, like, his son, his own son walks right past him. And then right behind his son is the son in law, and he stops the son in law. And he says, can I count on you, Scott?

I need to know that you’ll back me. We need to protect the herd, even from themselves. Yeah, it’s very political. Yeah. There was grandpa earlier, like talking about how before all these foreigners coming in this country used to be great. Before all the, uh, boy, 

Todd: I mean, we can, we can empathize with this right now, but, uh, you know, again, Brexit in particular, this being a British movie in this 2018 movie, clear parallels to that too.

I thought it was a little heavy. 

Craig: It is for sure. 

Todd: Look, I know that this stuff goes down all the time, but. My god, it’s like everything that comes out of these guys mouths is something offensive or talking or complaining about the foreigners 

Craig: Yeah, and and to be very fair. I don’t encounter people like that in my everyday life Even people who I have fundamental disagreements with I do not encounter ugly people like that most of the people that I encounter who have different values than me are kind polite Decent people we just have differences of opinions and I think that there are significant differences opinions But I I don’t come across in my day to day life ugly people like this 

Todd: Exactly and look ugliness does happen and I’ve been in the presence of People suddenly bursting into arguments that just were not appropriate for the moment and just seemed to come from some deep passion like they just got to get this stuff out every 10 minutes or so.

But like, I just find it hard to believe that a family, especially that is now in this particular situation, is going to go so out of their way to continue to piss each other off in these brief moments. Blatant ways, you know, 

Craig: that’s what I’m saying. No wonder this kid didn’t come home, right? He had the right idea.

He should have just stayed away. I Think that’s kind of the ultimate lesson of like He should have stayed away. Things would have been, even if, oh God, I don’t even care about spoilers. If you’re listening to this, you don’t care about spoilers. Even if, as the movie suggests in the end, this problem is widespread and potentially worldwide, at least they could have just been trapped in their own apartment with just the two of them and not with all these assholes.

Todd: They might’ve even just been fine, you know, as we go through this, I’m hoping that You and me talking, I’m gonna discover the point the movie was trying to make, because I think it gets really muddied, and I’m not even sure what the moral result, the moral tale is supposed to be. 

Craig: I think it, the message is supposed to be that, ultimately 

Todd: Don’t submit to authority?

Craig: No, that they do. That we’re easy to manipulate and we’re easy to, gosh, I don’t know what the word is. I’m trying to come up with a fancy word, but I can’t submit to, uh, yes, yeah, yes, yes. We’re, we’re quick to submit to authority. And I don’t think that that’s untrue. No, I don’t know if I believe it to the extent because the dad just has an epiphany that these messages are coming from the government.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And the government knows what it’s doing. So, we have to, you know, whatever they say, we have to do. And so, you know, they sit down to this beautiful dinner that the mother has been slaving over all day. And then, before they can even carve the bird, you know, they have these terrible fights, racist shit getting thrown around.

And in the midst of this, somebody happens to glance at the TV, and the TV says, All of your food is contaminated. Eat nothing. And they do like, they throw everything away and what’s his name? The smart kid, the one that we like objects because not only are they throwing away everything on the table, they’re throwing away everything like canned goods, like packaged goods.

They’re throwing away everything. And the guy’s like, the kid’s like, We don’t know how long we’re going to be here, right? What are we going to do? And the brother in law is like, we have running water. It didn’t say anything about water. You can survive without food for weeks. There were also so many times, and, and there were so many times in this movie where I also didn’t understand is Nick, Nick is the name of the, the.

Kid, we like there were so many times when I didn’t understand his decision making, because if I were in that situation, I would have said, fine, throw all the food in my room. You don’t eat it. Don’t you’re right. It’s probably bad. Don’t eat it. Throw it all in my room. And then there’s another part. I feel like coming up pretty soon where they get a message that says.

One among you is contaminated. Well, first of all, they all have to scrub themselves with bleach, which they act like is no big deal. I would think that that would not be pleasant. I know, I was thinking about that myself. I would think it would burn. If you 

Todd: rinse it off fast enough, it’s not gonna be too bad.

But you’re right, if you let that sit on you, and they’re all taking their sweet time with it, for sure. 

Craig: That’s a big, long thing. We get to watch Grandpa scrub his balls for like, a minute. A minute. 

Todd: Well, before the bit you’re going to talk about, there’s another part that I really want to talk about. And that’s when Down the Chimney, which was an opening that I guess they all forgot existed.

That’s right. Drops a plastic baggie with a syringe for each of them. And it tells them that they need to take these vaccine. It’s already been established that Angie works at the hospital. Did she ever say what she was? Was she a doctor? Was she a nurse? 

Craig: I think she’s a nurse, but I’m not sure because they said she works at the hospital and, but so does the son in law, but the son in law doesn’t really, he doesn’t really seem to have any medical knowledge at all.

So maybe, I don’t know, maybe he’s like a clerk or something or something. I don’t know, but he works at the hospital. 

Todd: Yeah, well, of course she’s immediately suspicious. She’s like, first of all, these syringes look used. I mean, they’re not properly capped. They’re not sterile. So just that alone, you know, is not good.

And Tony’s like, nope, we’re going to do it because this is what we’re instructed to do and it’s going to save our lives. And this whole argument, I really liked this bit because Again, I’m thinking COVID, I’m thinking people with general distrust vaccines these days, and the medical establishment in general, and even when authority is telling you you need to do this, they’re not quite so sure, and we’ve also had reason lately to believe that maybe things are not being told to us in our best interest, and so like, this is a dynamic I could get behind and I could understand, I was really interested to see how this was going to play out, especially with this father, you know, this is a dynamic I could get behind and I could understand, I was really interested to see how this was going to play out, especially with this father, Was just dead set on following everything that the TV, which he thinks is the government, is telling them to do.

His 

Craig: government. I think that’s what it comes down to. I mean, even with, you know, we say vaccine distrust, some people might say, you know, like maybe we’re foolish. So being so trusting, you know, I, I think that it just, this is, he believes this is his distrust. telling him to do this. Right, right. So he trusts, he trusts it.

Todd: Yeah, he just grabs it and he jabs it right in. He’s like, I don’t care, and he jabs it right in there. But then the next scene shows that they sterilize the rest of them. And also, kind of a point, it looks like they boiled them, right? To sterilize them? 

Craig: Yeah, 

Todd: yeah. You probably shouldn’t do that because that would probably change the medication inside.

Craig: Yeah, I have no idea what those, you know, like, I have no idea. Ultimately, like, that part is kind of silly. It is really dumb. Who, who put that? Like, Who bagged up those syringes and dropped them down the chimney? Good point. Because when we find out, Who’s behind this? 

Todd: It’s all very strange. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know if we’re meant to look at this too closely, but, uh, yeah, I agree with you.

Craig: I was just going to say all of the vaccines that I’ve had over the last 10 years have been cold. Like, like they have to keep them chilled. Yeah. So yeah, it’s, it’s dumb, whatever. And there’s a whole thing where, you know, he, he basically, he doesn’t have to strong arm most of his family because again, Patriarchy he says to do it.

So they do it. I was a little bit surprised that Nick and Anji did it. I guess you know, what choice do you have? But 

Todd: I don’t know they did have a choice I mean they were standing so strong against it the whole time and I thought okay Well, these two are not gonna take it. 

Craig: Well, and this is another one of those times where god I maybe it’s me maybe if maybe other viewers will feel differently, but I’m putting myself in Nick’s shoes and when he They’re like there’s only two left and you know, it’s him and Anji and he picks up the syringes I would have thrown that shit on the floor and stomped on it.

Like what are you gonna do now? Like yeah Yeah, I’m not taking it. Like what are you gonna do? Like, you can’t throw 

Todd: me out, but, but they do it. Well, not only that, but he turns to her and he says, We have no choice. I’m like, what, what are you talking about? You’ve been sitting here all along arguing your choice, and nothing has changed except that everybody else has taken them.

You still have the same choice you had from the beginning. And then why does she take it too? I just did not get that at all. I 

Craig: also hoped, like, I felt like in a better movie, They would have faked it. Like, you know, like I, I thought when she like poked it in his arm, I thought maybe she could have like poked it off to the side and just squirted it out.

Like, Oh, we did it. 

Todd: It doesn’t look like anybody was paying that close attention. Well, where I thought this was going was the two of them weren’t going to take it, and then something was going to happen to somebody, you know? Either to one of them or somebody else, and then that would throw a question onto whether it was a good idea to take it or not, you know?

Craig: Well, something DOES happen to one of them! Something 

Todd: DOES happen, yeah. Grandpa suddenly starts gets up and starts puking out blood, I guess. 

Craig: Well, I don’t know what it’s supposed to be. It’s black. It’s like tar. I don’t know. 

Todd: Yeah, I don’t know. 

Craig: And what is that about? Like, again, I think that this is, it’s all just about control.

Like, how, whatever is behind These messages, how far can it push them and it just keeps pushing them a little bit farther and so in this moment, it tells them all to take these injections and they all do. And then one of them dies a violent and mysterious death. The dad says, Oh, well, he was old. These things happen and not on.

She’s like, are you kidding me? Like, are you going to try to 

Todd: pretend this 

Craig: is a coincidence? So they know, you know, like. I, I, the dad doesn’t, the dad just continues to trust and because of that he just continues to keep doing whatever it says, which leads to the next message is like, one of you is contaminated or one of you is infected, isolate them.

And so immediately they’re like, Oh, it’s, it’s Angie, because she coughed once at dinner. Yeah. Yeah. It’s not because she coughed once at dinner. It’s because she has brown skin. Like it’s, it’s so. Like you said before, it’s a little heavy handed. It’s a little in your face. Thank God. I’m sure there are people like this exist, but I, I don’t know them.

And thank God, because these people are just so like, it just so blatantly, obviously, Disgustingly racist and and this is the part that you said that I was getting to and you were right when they’re like we have To isolate her. It’s obviously her and Nick’s like no. No, I won’t let you and she’s like, no, it’s okay.

We can’t fight this Wasn’t it wasn’t it your immediate thought like if you’re him, don’t you just say fine? 

Todd: I’ll go with her. Exactly. That was my exact thought, and I thought he was gonna do that. So that was irritating. The other irritating thing was they decided that they, for reasons I don’t understand, were gonna put her in the same room as the corpse.

I’m like, you have five rooms upstairs here. Put the corpse in one room. She can go in the other room, with or without Nick. Why is this happening? I didn’t get that at all. I don’t know. I don’t know. So I know, but really, this was the point where I started to detach from the movie because I didn’t get, it’s just started to feel too, too fake.

Like, I just didn’t, I couldn’t believe these characters would actually make these choices. I couldn’t believe Nick, who is going to secret her out in the middle of the night, and they were both going to leave this place was just going to be okay with leaving her in a room by herself with the guy’s corpse.

It just didn’t make any sense. 

Craig: Yeah. And, and, and, In breezing over the plot, we’ve left out things that aren’t particularly consequential, but there’s been a lot of violence. Like they hit each other all 

Todd: the time. Men 

Craig: in this family are constantly fighting each other. Like, yeah, they’re Nick. At some point fights both Scott and his dad like they’re physically fighting and to stop them the mom starts singing a Christmas carol Oh, yeah, and as ugly as this is I was like, I almost can buy this Like family like families coming to fisticuffs and the mother doing anything she can to break them up.

Todd: Uh, 

Craig: I think it’s about that time too that I, I think Angie’s just talking to, to Nick through 

Todd: the door 

Craig: and she says, I think the TVs are watching us. I think that the messages that they’re sending are reacting to the things that we do. So in other words, I think what she’s saying, and I think that what we’re meant to believe is that it’s, it’s playing on their conflicts.

And, and pushing that. She, she tells him to turn 

Todd: off the TV. In a way, it’s, I mean, Speak No Evil was a better movie than this, but it’s similar to that. At least it seems to be at this point. That the, the television, the messages it’s telling them, it’s trying to push them to see how far will they go, how far will they obey.

That was obviously a better movie and a very different situation. But yeah, that was, that came immediately to my mind. He goes downstairs, he sneaks downstairs and runs into his sister again. And then he unplugs the TV. She catches him doing it and she gets angry. And then they all kind of come in there and there’s a fight.

And then Kate tells him that Scott needs to like beat him up or hit him. I mean, she’s like, be a man. 

Craig: Oh my God, it was so gross. Like she is such a disgusting character. Like it’s so like, it’s hard. Like I’m having these terrible feelings about a pregnant woman. I’m like, that is awful. She is pregnant.

Todd: She’s just going through terrible. It’s just a hormones, Greg. It’s that’s 

Craig: all it is. She’s egging on her. Well, the dad plugs the TV back in and it flashes red and it’s like, warning, interrupting emergency signal puts lives at risk. And then, Nick and Scott, the son in law, start fighting, and yeah, she’s egging them on.

She’s like, get him Scott, get him, get him! Like, what is wrong with you? That is your brother! 

Todd: Follows them up the stairs? 

Craig: Yeah. She follows, she’s right there. Like, They’re fighting. She’s not more than two feet away from them and they’re up on the landing. And I don’t even remember who pushes who, but it’s accidental.

I think it’s unclear. So close. Yeah. Because she’s so close to them, they’re fighting and they move and she gets knocked over the banister. And falls on her back. This movie is dark. 

Todd: Yeah, it really is. 

Craig: You don’t see that very often. I mean, she’s, she’s literally due in two weeks. She, she is ready to give birth.

And she falls over the banister. Now, she lands on her back. And, she’s not dead. Dead. 

Todd: Breaks a leg. Yeah, her 

Craig: leg is terribly broken, like the bones are coming out. They try to make her comfortable and, and do what they can. She eventually passes out from the pain and, God, things are kind of pandemonium.

During, during that fight, Scott happened to look over at the TV and just for a brief second the TV flashed, I see you? Yeah. 

Todd: Why? 

Craig: I, I don’t know why. 

Todd: Why would it reveal that? Yeah, I’m not quite sure. 

Craig: But this, at this point, everything is crazy and Kate is hurt and they don’t know what’s gonna happen. The dad just checks out.

He’s like, I’m gonna go to work. I’m gonna go to my study. And he just goes and hangs out in there for the next 20 minutes. I don’t know what’s, I don’t know what’s going on there. 

Todd: By this point, has Josh run over to the The opening, because they were at there was an opening in the doorway. 

Craig: There’s a slot that 

Todd: Vaginal slot, yeah, that they have to push the 

Craig: Syringes.

Clinical 

Todd: materials back through. And, uh, he runs over there to try to pry it open and then putting his fingers in there, the TV also flashes like, oh no, contamination of the portal or Opening or whatever and it just bites his fingers off 

Craig: and in those moments when you see that opening and I would say that before The reveal near the end the this is the only time that it’s suggested, but I do feel like it’s suggested enough When that slot like opens and the sides of it are kind of moving it moves Organically, 

Todd: yeah, 

Craig: it doesn’t move That gives you some indication that there’s something, something weird going on.

I mean, obviously there’s something weird going on, but it’s not just like these are metal doors that have been bolted to the front of their house. 

Todd: Yeah. Well, at this point, I think Nick gets smart. He sticks his phone to a selfie stick and Pokes open a second floor bathroom drain. I don’t know. I don’t know exactly how this works if the pipes go directly out of the house or whatever, but anyway, it’s some way that he can penetrate through the wall of the house.

So I guess the house isn’t totally encased, even though the impression is given because he’s up at the roof at one point. He tries to. Pry away the roof and going 

Craig: through walls. 

Todd: Yeah, it’s so weird. Yeah But anyway, he pokes that through the wall and he’s able to get a video of what’s outside and you can see there’s this sort Of looks like a bunch of he calls them snakes.

I say cords. Uh huh coming down thin skittering 

Craig: kind of like kind of like almost It’s a definite turning 

Todd: point in the movie for us because now we have an idea of what, what’s actually happening. I mean, we don’t know why, but you know, at least, you know, it’s not, for example, some weird experiment that people are doing to them.

It’s clearly the, some kind of entity that has encased the house. And so, uh, the, the TV goes crazy when this happens and they, uh, Again, obeying the TV, run upstairs and grab him and say, what did you do? And this brings on the part that I also just couldn’t really get behind either. 

Craig: I think that the only way that we can justify this is that Kate falling and being What comes to turn out to be mortally injured because she dies.

I think we’re to believe that he was at the verge of breaking maybe his whole adult life and that’s what did it. And he just broke The father. The father. So when the TV tells them that there’s A spy among them and they need to extricate information. Like he’s more than willing to tie up his only son and torture him.

Right. For what information? 

Todd: Like a terrorist that he himself, well, yeah. It’s weird. What does he think he’s going to get out of him? He cuts him in the face, he cuts him in the leg, he’s He lines up a bunch of tools like he’s been doing this for years. Like he’s one of those, like, uh, stereotypical German Nazi doctors, you know?

Right, right. Doing terrible experiments on people. It’s a little much, I thought, and I I don’t know. I mean, like you said, okay, he was a little crazy. Alright, I guess I’ll just go with that. 

Craig: The only thing that stops him from torturing the kid is the mother screams from downstairs. And they run to see what’s going on with her and the daughter has died.

The pregnant daughter has died. And is this the point? That finally I was so glad. I don’t, like, the dad says something insensitive. I don’t remember it. At some point he says something like, There are always casualties in war. And the mom just slaps the shit out of him. And she’s just done. She’s just Yeah, that was a long time coming.

I know! And I’m so, I’m so happy in that moment, like, finally! Put this asshole in his place. Oh god. Right. At some point Anji’s messing around with the black stuff that’s covering and she pulls, you know, it’s like it is cords. Like just a lot of cords side by side in a sheet. And she pulls one loose and we kind of get POV from the cord.

And I, I wondered if it was like a camera, like a, like a fiber optic camera or something. 

Todd: I was thinking fiber optics. Yeah. So the idea may be that it’s just kind of ever watching in some way. 

Craig: Yeah. I think that what we’re ultimately to, I don’t know, these could be machines. We’re, we’re never told. Yeah.

What they are they could be machines. We don’t know or they could be some kind of alien that’s actually like Seeing and and sentient 

Todd: could be demons from another world. Who knows? Yeah, I 

Craig: know at another point she Plugs in I think another tv like an old analog tv and it’s giving the same messages But she takes the back off of the tube Of the tv and she gasps and shrinks away from it, but we don’t see it at that point, but she tells Nick later.

She’s like in the, 

Clip: in the, in the room. I found an old tv. I opened the back of it. There was something inside, something livid like a creature, like a heart beating. What if that same thing is in the TV out there? What if it’s in every tv? 

Todd: Now I have a question about this. So, this television which was just being stored in the closet upstairs suddenly has this entity in there?

Are we to believe that all televisions have these like latent entities in there that are we’re just gonna wake up over time? Or It’s 

Craig: loose, I don’t know. 

Todd: So she’s like, well, there’s probably something in the television downstairs as well, but all hell kind of breaks loose because, because she did that, I think the entity starts pumping in black smoke into her room and ultimately all of the rooms upstairs through these pipe, they were like little pipes 

Craig: that were 

Todd: poking out through those cords.

And, uh, that gets everybody freaked out, and he manages to break her out of that room, and he’s trying to break his mom, who has, I guess, locked herself in the bathroom. 

Craig: I don’t know what’s going on there. 

Todd: Yeah, I don’t, I don’t remember when she ran up there, why she did that, but anyway, she’s kind of locked in the bathroom, and they’re trying to get the keys, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it has this glass door, but it’s one of those glass doors with the wires in it, too, which, uh, I guess you might have inside your house.

I don’t know. Anyway, he’s trying to break it open and he can’t do it in time and the mother just explodes 

Craig: Against the glass like the yeah, I mean first it seems like the gas is like Burning her skin off like it’s acidic or something. Yeah, but then just She just explodes. Okay, alright. Ha ha 

Todd: ha, whatever.

So now you, I was like, close the frickin door, guys. Like, they left the door to the other room open. I was like, why don’t you close it? The gas is just flowing in from above. So, they run down the stairs and they try to barricade themselves into the living room and they stuff You know, towels and things in the cracks.

Craig: And the gas is coming down the stairs, like it’s rolling down the stairs, but it stops at the bottom step. Like, like the gas itself is, is sentient. And then, on the TV, is something new. It’s a green butthole. It’s a butthole. 

Todd: Some might call it rays of light from heaven, but you know, it depends on your perspective, I guess.

Craig: Okay. So there’s a green butthole on TV and I think Nick tries to unplug it, but it still doesn’t go off. And then the house starts shaking and then it starts spewing out. The TV starts. And I say spewing out, it’s just typing the same way it has before, sending these messages. I am reborn, I bring salvation, resurrection.

Yeah, it gets 

Todd: Very religious here. 

Craig: So now the dad thinks that it’s God like he looks up there like they have a crucifix above the TV and like It’s a little heavy handed like he’s looking at the TV and it’s saying these things and then we see him look up at the cross and then back down like 

Todd: The camera actually pans up to the cross and pans back down to the TV.

I almost laughed out loud at that point Subtle this is not 

Craig: and even though Kate is dead Her stomach starts moving, so apparently the baby’s alive, so the dad thinks it’s a miracle. Like Jesus or something? I’m not 

Todd: I guess. I was so confused at this point. I was like, where’s this movie going? What’s it trying to do?

I thought we were about to be presented with something kind of profound that’s suddenly religious, or to me it just kind of descended into a whole bunch of shit that I cannot begin to unpack. 

Craig: I know, and there’s, there’s been weird dream stuff that’s been going on, and that happens here again too, like, out of nowhere in the middle of all of this, Nick and Anji both wake up in a beautiful field, and for like 30 seconds, and then snap back into the house.

Yeah. I don’t know what that’s all about. And when they snap back into the house, the message on the TV is, make a sacrifice to save the unborn. And so the dad is trying to sacrifice Angie, but she says, no, I’m the only one who knows how to do a C section. So instead the dad kills Scott. Yeah. And then Angie and Nick fight the dad and Nick kills him 

Todd: with the TV 

Craig: with the TV But then the TV writes itself and all those weird tendrils I started calling them tendrils at this point all these weird tendrils come out.

They’re coming through the window They’re coming out of the TV and it’s like some all of a sudden some hellraiser shit. Like some of them have like Claws and hooks on the end? Like where did that come from? And this is very Hellraiser, like those tendrils like go into the dad’s head and lift him up so he’s like upright but kind of floating just above the ground and they reanimate him and talk to Nick and Anji threw him, and they’re like, Join with me.

Become me. Worship me. God. Worship me now or face your extinction.

But one of them, one of them just figures out, I guess, It can’t kill us. It needs us. It’s a parasite, and we’re the only ones left. Okay, sure, I don’t In a house? In the world? What? I think in the house, but I think that they underestimated it, because 

Todd: Doesn’t mind killing them. 

Craig: No, it does. That’s it. I mean, the tendrils end up cocooning both of them, and then the dad axes them to death.

And the dad, and I say the dad, but it’s really the thing animating as people. Sets up the TV in front of the pregnant belly, in the dead woman, and then the tendrils, like, cover her, and I guess, somehow, eat away all of her flesh, leaving only her bones and the baby.

Todd: I wasn’t sure how that worked, but okay. At this point, I wasn’t sure of anything. 

Craig: And the TV that Alien Dad had set up right in front of the belly starts playing, like, these pretty pastel colors. And text comes on that says, Hello, Ruby. That’s the name they said they were going to name it if it was a girl.

Worship me. And then it pans out to show, like, I typed in the whole neighborhood is covered and then I had to go back because it kept panning out like the whole town is Covered like I don’t know. Maybe this is happening all over the world. Who knows? I don’t care. 

Todd: I just didn’t get it, honestly. I mean, and I, you know, I was thinking, am I just being lazy?

Do I need to sit down and sort this out? But the more I thought about it, the more I thought, I’m not even sure if the writer knows what he’s trying to say. If they’re trying to say something here, it’s so buried under layers that I have no interest in peeling away, honestly. It just, okay, if the, if like you said, the whole message is that people are terrible and they’ll do terrible things to each other when somebody tells them to, and even the people who go against it eventually die anyway, I’m not sure what kind of message that, I mean, it’s a message of sorts, but it, It’s not like anything profound.

It’s more of an observation than anything else. You know, bad things happen to people and bad people do bad things to each other for very poor reasons And that’s life, I guess. What is this whole thing about worshiping this thing as a god? Is there some religious element to this? Are we pulling religion in as now the the thing that’s demanding obedience that we blindly follow?

Yeah, 

Craig: I don’t know. I think that’s Yeah, I think it is. I, I think they are trying to say it. They, they just kind of But 

Todd: then is this thing God? Is it being God is bad? You know, I mean, like 

Craig: I don’t know. I mean, this is something that has been on a lot of people’s minds. You know, the, the election in America didn’t go the way that some of us wanted it to go.

And it went the way that the majority of us wanted it to go. And, and I think that a lot of people have been apprehensive and nervous about getting together with family, especially if there are differences of opinion. You know, I’m just to the point where I just can’t take it anymore. I can’t take the division and the ugliness.

Like I just want to go back to a time that existed in our lifetimes where we just agreed to disagree. And. And. And. We left it at the door. 

Todd: Yeah. And not everything was so apocalyptic. 

Craig: Exactly. Exactly. You know, things are going to be what they’re going to be. I’m, I’m just, I’m, I’m just exhausted being anxious and I’m exhausted on both sides with all of the, animosity and finger pointing.

I I’m just done with it. Like you think what you want to think and I’ll think what I want to think and let’s just have lunch, you know, like, 

Todd: uh, 

Craig: I’m, I’m just so, I’m just so tired of it. So the way that I, uh, I’m approaching it is just, you know, I know the people in my life that I love. And, and if we have differences of opinion, let’s just not talk about it.

Let’s just eat and get fat and tired and tell jokes and, and just not talk about it. I know, I know that ultimately things have to be talked about, but. Not right now. Things are pretty much established here for a little while. Let’s just open presents and, and have a good time. And, and I know, gosh, I’m reluctant to even say that.

And I’m getting a little misty saying it because I know that I come from a place of privilege where it’s easy for me to say that. And I know that it may not. Feel so safe and easy for a lot of people and if you’re in that position where you don’t feel safe with your family Then I agree with the message of this movie.

Don’t go if you don’t feel safe with your family Don’t 

Todd: yeah 

Craig: find family that you are safe with and go there. 

Todd: That’s a really depressing takeaway But uh, it has some truth to it. I was just thinking in the midst of what you were saying maybe Their ugliness towards each other is what brought this down upon them You 

Craig: Yeah.

Yeah, I think so, 

Todd: you know, and, and of course the whole neighborhood, like the idea is that everybody at that, at that point was just sort of being ugly. And, and so that gave this entity license to the ability, 

Craig: wouldn’t it be interesting to find out that this entity was objective and like, they really just were responding to whatever was going on in the house.

So, like, if everybody loved each other, maybe it would have told them, You win a trip to Tahiti!

Todd: Eat all the food. It’s perfectly 

Craig: fine. Oh, boy. Who knows. I, you know, it’s not a bad movie. I don’t think it’s a bad movie. I do think it’s heavy handed, and it’s Whatever that messaging is meant to be, but it’s not badly acted. It’s not badly shot. It doesn’t look bad. It’s, it’s intriguing. It’s, it’s a fairly unique concept.

I’ve never seen anything just like this before. Yeah, it was with it. It was fine. It’s bleak and save it for after the new year. 

Todd: Yeah, don’t watch it now. Find 

Craig: something more fun and lighthearted and uplifting to watch. Alan and I just watched Spirited. It’s a musical with Ryan Reynolds and Will Ferrell.

And we watched it last year too, but I had kind of forgotten about it. And it’s like almost two and a half hours long. It’s just a fun, jaunty musical with lots of singing and dancing and good family chemistry. Stuff and watch that instead 

Todd: Not a black tendril or racist grandpa in sight, huh? 

Craig: Not at all 

Todd: All right, well, thank you guys so much for recommending this movie we love hearing from our patrons They are the ones who pointed us in the direction of this and a lot of the movies actually we’re going to do for this This holiday season, not just our patrons, our listeners out there as well.

You guys reach out to us on the website. You reach out to us sometimes by sending us voice messages and we actually have a recent voice message. Craig, would you like to listen to it? Yes. This is from our listener, Nikki. 

Nicky: Hey guys. I recently found you as I was looking for a fresh horror podcast to listen to, and I have fallen in love with you both.

I’m binging all my favorite horror movies you’ve done on Spotify, and the more I listen, the more I enjoy. Todd, you have a beautiful voice, and before I even knew this podcast existed, I listened to a few of those erotic werewolf stories you’ve mentioned, which is too funny. Craig, I love your sweet laugh, and I share your love of Stephen King.

Keep doing what you’re doing, guys. You’re great at it. Love you. Love your show. 

Todd: That was nice. Now that’s some of that positive encouragement we need to be hearing. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. It’s always nice to hear from people. 

Todd: I think it’s funny that she brought up the, uh, the werewolf stuff. I don’t, did I talk about that on an episode?

I don’t, I, I don’t know. 

Craig: I mean, we did the whole werewolf month thing. 

Todd: Oh, I must have brought it up then. 

Craig: I don’t know. It’s, it’s all, it’s, it’s. Try 

Todd: to keep that secret. 

Craig: It’s, it’s, it’s always nice to hear from people who have found us recently. Yeah. Like, I love hearing from people who have been with us for a long time.

That’s amazing. But it’s, it is nice. It’s to know that new people are coming around. It’s fun. 

Todd: And Spotify, a lot of people come to us through Spotify. It’s kind of surprised me lately how big that has blown up as a podcasting platform. So it’s doing us a lot of favors. I’ll tell you that. Nice. Thank you, Spotify.

Please keep doing what you’re doing. And Nikki, thank you so much for sending us that lovely message and for those wonderful compliments. And any of you who would like to reach out and, uh, send us a message like Nikki did, you just need to go to our website, ChainsawHorror. com. At the very top, there’s a button that says talk to us, and you don’t need any special software or anything.

Just write the website, just use your mic attached to your computer or whatever, your phone, whatever you’re using. And that’ll go straight to us as soon as you click send. And we love hearing from you guys, no matter how you find us and how you hear about us. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Whoo hoo! What a load of Christmas cheer we received with this delightful murderous elf tale! Brimming with holiday goodness from beginning to end, this Norwegian film from last year turned out to be the PERFECT beginning to our annual month of holiday horrror! Thanks for the recommendations, guys!

Episode 418, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: We are kicking off the Christmas season, Craig. 

Craig: It’s pretty exciting. 

Todd: I love it. I just so look forward. I mean, Halloween is fun, but there’s something about these Christmas horror movies that are really fun to pick out, really fun to watch, and it’s almost like a challenge, like no matter what, Halloween’s scary, right?

So, you know, Halloween’s going to be about horror, but can this movie put me in the Christmas spirit? And be adequately scary, fun, whatever. That is the challenge. It’s kind of in my mind, as we turn on one of these movies that we’ve selected for holidays. Now, what, in our ninth year? Yeah, this is the ninth time that we have done Christmas horror movies.

Craig: There for a while, we were getting a little worried that we’d, do all the good ones and run out, but it seems like, I don’t know, in the last 10 years, they’ve been making a lot of them. 

Todd: It’s so crazy, actually. 

Craig: Some of them bad, obviously, and a lot of them cheap knockoffs of some of the better ones. But there are some good ones out there, and I’m excited about the stuff we’re doing this month.

Todd: You’re so right. Like 10, 15 years ago, like Christmas horror movies were kind of a rare commodity. And now there’s 10 every year. It seems like again, like you said, differing in quality, this one that we’re doing today. Well, you know, we put it out to our patrons. What would you guys, do you guys have suggestions for us?

We have a running list that we have going all the time. I think this one came up from several people this year and you seemed very keen on doing it. And it only came out last year as well. It’s a 2023 Norwegian horror comedy. called There’s Something in the Barn, directed by Magnus Martens, and, uh, man, I was getting serious Rare Export vibes from this one, which was one of the, one of the first movies we ever did, also a Norwegian horror film.

And several of the Christmas horror movies that we’ve done over the years have been Norwegian for some reason. I don’t know why that is. I really have no idea, but it’s been fun. Just the fact that this was a Norwegian movie was exciting me because I just love the quirky humor And I was looking forward to potentially really beautiful like scenery and stuff like that Maybe some cultural stuff and in those ways it didn’t disappoint me at all.

Craig: No. Not at all, it was Super cute. Yeah. I didn’t know anything about this except for any image you see of it kind of shows like an elf peeking out of the barn. So you know what the something in the barn is. 

Todd: There’s something in the barn, probably an elf, maybe more, but definitely an elf. 

Craig: I didn’t want to read too much about it because I thought if there are going to be any surprises, I don’t want them to be spoiled for me.

So I didn’t know much about it. When it comes right down to it, I really enjoyed it. I read a review after I read it that said it’s like Gremlins meets National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation. Yes. And I had definitely thought about both of those movies while I was watching this. In fact, I think there are at least one or two direct homages.

At one point, somebody climbs up on a ladder and it gets pushed back and he falls flat back on his back and it shows an aerial shot of his face. It’s the exact same shot from Christmas Vacation, basically. And I feel like there were a couple of others. Definitely thought of Gremlins 2. 

Todd: There was a point where I think the dad made a big show of plugging in the Christmas lights, even though it doesn’t have the same result.

Yes, yes! It’s like the same shot, it’s so cute. Yes, 

Craig: yes, exactly. But then also, Krampus, just because they’re similar, not because it necessarily reminded me of it. Actually, if I have any critique of this, and I don’t have a lot, I thought it was Good. I would say it’s kind of like Krampus light. It’s going for the same things.

This is one of those movies that you and I love that don’t shy away from the violence and gore, but also have like the heartwarming element, you know, like, like, love your family because it’s Christmas. And I thought that it delivered on that. Uh, level two, maybe not to the, you know, Krampus is one of my now favorite Christmas movies of all time.

Yeah. This is not one of my favorites of all time, but I feel like that’s what it’s going for. Yeah. And it, it does a good job. 

Todd: Well, Krampus surprises you at how dark it gets and that’s something that’s so charming about it. This movie, I, I was on edge thinking that it could get that dark and it never does.

That’s not a criticism, but you’re right. It was approaching that, you know, what’s going to happen here to this family? What’s going to happen to everybody here? Are they going to survive? You know, it seemed to be willing to kill people off at one point. I wasn’t sure 

Craig: right 

Todd: at one point I thought that was going to kind of avoid killing people or avoid overtly gore even with the first kill I thought this might be one of a few because The first kill happens to a guy in a mask and so it’s not even that good I mean, it’s gruesome, but, you know, they’re clearly avoiding, like, anything, like, really in your face disgusting when you see the body there.

I thought, okay, well, maybe this means the movie’s gonna try to keep it a little light. Eh, not really. 

Craig: Oh, yeah, that wasn’t the first kill. There’s the cold open or whatever. 

Todd: Oh, that’s right. 

Craig: There’s this older Norwegian man, and he’s like bustling about the barn at night. 

Todd: Cause there’s something in there.

Yeah. 

Craig: He says he’s going to tear it down once and for all. And, and weird things happen. Like a baby carriage rolls out into the open and he uncovers it and there’s a huge bear trap in there. And it was so funny. Which he puts his hand in, what the, what the heck, you moron? I 

Clip: don’t, I 

Craig: guess he triggers it on purpose, I don’t know.

And then there’s, there’s like a red killer POV, so you know somebody’s in there. Something swings out of the rafters on fire and hits him and knocks him out the window. 

Todd: Like a burning tire. 

Craig: Yeah, 

Todd: it’s so bizarre that you’re like, okay, what, where, where is this going? You know, what is this? So, uh, I really liked the cold open actually.

Craig: I did too. I mean, cause obviously there’s something in the barn, just so you know, and it might set you on fire, who knows, but then it becomes. Every holiday movie, where the family is driving to their new home, and we get the aerial shot of the car. You know, they’re in the car, and they’re talking about, you know, a fresh start.

Clip: Did you guys know the happiest country on earth? Yeah, doesn’t surprise me. It’s like Disneyland for Europe. Now we move to Disneyland. Hell luck. I just wish global warming would hurry up already. Don’t worry, in a couple of years when California is just a scorching desert, I’ll be back. Norway will be just like Santa Monica.

Craig: It’s very cliched in many ways. I don’t care about that. That’s fine. Yeah. horror movies are cliched all the time. It doesn’t bother me. It’s cliched in that way. It’s also cliched in that the mom is actually this. She’s been around for a couple of years, but she really hasn’t connected with the teenage daughter who’s like rebelling, and she’s so mad that she has to leave her friends and move to Norway.

Todd: It’s so typical. It’s so typical. But that’s what’s charming about it. I mean, I was in this all the way. Plus, it has this sense of humor. It’s got humor. Like you said, it’s following the National Lampoon kind of strategy of the family’s a little dysfunctional, but not really like dad’s a goofball kind of out to lunch in a way like he’s just overtly positive, but a nice guy just trying to, you know, keep everyone together and do the best and hijinks ensue, you know, I mean, it’s it just has so much of that flavor that I thought this is a movie I’ll probably come back to.

Oh, yeah, because it’s so full of Christmas warmth. 

Craig: Oh, my God. God, I was, I was, I was 10 minutes into it and I texted Alan cause obviously he wasn’t watching with me. He was in the other room and I texted him. This movie is so f ing Christmassy. There’s so much like upbeat Christmas music in it. Jam packed.

Yeah. 

Todd: It’s like every minute of this, there’s some Christmas tune playing in the background and it’s great and it’s widescreen. I mean, we’re talking, I don’t know what the aspect ratio is, but it’s super widescreen. And they made every bit of use of that. Like the, every frame is just filled with beautiful stuff.

Whether it’s a landscape, whether it’s inside the barn, whether it’s inside the house. These people are like my parents decorating at Christmas. They go to the nines. There are candles everywhere. Everything’s kind of has a glow to it. Mm hmm. It just felt so warm and cozy. Oh God. It was just so nice. I just loved it.

And what a great way to kick off this month. You know? Oh, I was so 

Craig: glad we did 

Todd: it first. It’s like 

Craig: beautiful, snowy mountains with pine trees, you know, covered in snow. Like it’s just. It’s gorgeous. It’s, I know nothing about this director or cinematographer, so I have no information to share, but based on this beautiful work, loved it.

Yeah. And, and you’re right. It is funny. Okay. So Bill is the dad and he’s played by Martin Starr, who I think I’ve seen in a bunch of stuff, but he’s never like the leading guy. I do remember him from a movie called like, this is the end or something with a lot of really funny, famous. Yes. Bro comedians. He 

Todd: was also in a movie we did, uh, he and Amrita Acharya.

Who plays the mom. Who plays the mom. Yeah. They were both in Dead Snow 2, Red vs. Dead, which is another Norwegian horror movie, the zombie one that we just loved. Yeah. They were both the two stars in that, so I’m sure they were plucked from that, but that was like God, what, 10 years before this, at least?

Craig: Martin Star, to me, just kind of has a, uh, kind of awkward, I don’t know, almost uncomfortable air about him, and, but it’s, it’s funny to watch. And he’s kind of like, he doesn’t know what to do. Like, he doesn’t know how to make this relationship between his wife and his kids work. He’s just trying to figure things out.

And it just so happened that he inherited this big, beautiful house. It’s literally in the middle of nowhere, that’s the only, I kind of get it, the teenage daughter, like it literally is in the middle of nowhere. He’s trying to give them a new start, and that’s admirable, and he is, like you said, like he’s ridiculously optimistic, like everything’s gonna be fine.

It is so Christmas Vacation because they pull up. Like they’re driving through the mountains in the snow and he stops the car and he’s like Is that a moose on a sign? Oh, so 

Clip: cute. Have you ever seen a moose on a sign before? Come on Let’s take a photo with it. Yeah. Yeah Oh, this is gonna make the most amazing family christmas photo for this year.

Oh, 

Craig: yeah. Great idea And so they all get out of the car to take A picture with the sign. And as they’re taking the selfie, an actual moose walks into frame behind them, and then they turn around and they notice, but the dad it’s so Clark Griswold, like he starts like walking up to it, but then the mom moose shows up and like chases them to the car.

It’s very Christmas vacation. Oh, 

Todd: a hundred percent. 

Craig: But, but that’s before they even get to the house and then they get to the house and it’s gorgeous and there’s a barn. And there’s something in the barn. 

Todd: There’s a lot of shit in the barn, for one thing. The barn is as big as the house. Maybe even bigger than the house.

Craig: Well, barns are big. I mean, it is a barn. 

Todd: Of course, they have to be big. We find out later that Bill and Carol, as you said, she’s the stepmoms. They’ve been together for a couple years, I guess they said. I don’t remember exactly how long. But Carol apparently is a life coach who has this system that she calls Happy Vision.

Where you just envision things happy. I was actually kind of sad that they didn’t do more with that. I thought we’d, I thought that would be kind of more of a running gag. It’s a bit of a running gag, but, but we don’t hear too much about her whole system, except that it just involves envisioning things happy.

So it’s, it’s simple and dumb. I don’t know how people feel about life coaching out there, but you know, I do kind of, I’m a little skeptical about the whole concept myself, so it’s ripe for parody and that’s her. And it turns out that Bill was one of her. Clients I guess or whatever and she completely turned his life around he 

Craig: went to one of her seminars Yeah, they met at one of her seminars.

Todd: That’s so funny I just thought that itself was hilarious and I just cannot help but like this guy 

Craig: Well, you know, look he lost his wife and he’s, uh, single guy with two kids now. Like I can totally see like going to an aspirational speaker or whatever. Falling in love. He’s trying Todd. Give 

Todd: the guy a break.

Yeah, I get it. I get it. But he’s just so enthusiastic. And that’s the other thing. Like, you know, this may be me as an expat. I’ve been there before where you come to a place and you just want to love it so much because you have no choice. You know, it’s new and it’s fresh and everything’s exciting. This guy’s going over the top.

I love that. They all have hats that say norway on them. 

Craig: Oh my gosh. Yes stocking caps 

Todd: And just as you expect like you said, you know, they walk through town in the carol older sister is just bitching the whole time And lucas just seems kind of okay Like he’s exploring things and they wander into town the next morning and lucas wanders into this little park It’s called a museum later, but it looks just like a little setup with all these like garden gnomes and elves and these little huts and homes that are, you know, like a display.

Yeah, outdoor. 

Craig: Yeah, almost like a little Christmas village or something like that. 

Todd: Yeah, it’s a cute little thing, and he’s looking at that. Meanwhile, the rest of the family just wanders right into a coffee shop next door, and they see, they’re talking to each other. Kind of openly trying to make friends with the locals.

Craig: It’s that great moment. It’s the shady locals, you know, like the new, the new folks walk in and silence, like everybody stops what they’re doing and just stares at them. I love that. I do too. 

Todd: And there’s a lot of You know, again, this is Norwegian, the director’s Norwegian, the, one of the, the main writer, at least, is Norwegian, and so, like, there’s a lot of poking fun at Norwegian culture in here as well.

I’m not an expert on Norway, I’ve never been there, I’d love to go sometimes. I’ve known a couple Norwegians, we’ve talked about Scandinavian culture in general, and just how people aren’t as overtly friendly. Initially, as Americans, they can come off as kind of cold, just because they’re rather reserved, and they don’t, you know, just smile at you the minute you walk in, like, you kind of have to earn it, in a way, you know, like, Why would I smile at you?

I don’t know you. But, once I do know you, you know, we can become really close and really good friends. So, I just feel like there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of jokes about Norwegian culture kind of poking through in here. Yeah, the locals, it’s so funny because these locals, we know that there’s something in the barn.

Craig: Right. 

Todd: And we know that as soon as they say where they are staying, they’re, one of the, one of the guys comes up to him. I think his name is Raymond, right? This bearded guy? 

Craig: Yeah, I think so. 

Todd: We don’t hear it till later, but he comes up to them. Are 

Clip: you the family that’s taking over the Newtown farm? Yeah, that’s us.

Eric was my uncle. I inherited the farm after he passed away.

Yeah, and now we’re moving here.

So these are the happiest people on earth. 

Todd: Everybody knows that there’s some problem there. You know, it’s like the family that moved into the haunted house. Right. But nobody is willing to just say something to them about it. Like, they’re just like, kind of oblivious. But like, little things are dropped and it slowly dawns on them that, wait a minute, what’s going on here?

That the house has a reputation for being haunted. 

Craig: Yeah, which I actually thought was kind of interesting because I just, I assumed That they knew the truth. I assumed that they knew there was an elf in there. 

Todd: Oh, the town you mean? 

Craig: Yeah, the town. Yeah, not the family. Yeah, me too. But as it turns out, they don’t.

All they know is that weird things have happened up there, and so they think it’s haunted. Before they went into town, they also met this cop who shows up several times. And I didn’t, I didn’t write down the actress’s name, but she’s really funny. She’s comic relief. And I loved, well, the first thing she speaks to them in Norwegian.

People typically speak to them in Norwegian first, but when they say they’re American, everybody can speak English, so they don’t have any. problems at all, which is my experience too. I visited the Netherlands for a weekend. So it’s not 

Todd: like 

Craig: I have extensive experience, but my experience was that everybody spoke English.

Clip: Oh, you’re Americans. Yeah. I just got to tell you, I love the Kardashians. 

Craig: And, and she’s dropping jokes all over the place. It’s hilarious. There’s later, something happens. We’ll get there, but the cop comes. She’s like, yeah, it looks like something bad happened. And the mom’s like, well, what are you going to do?

She’s like, well, I’ll dust for fingerprints and then I’ll get there. Forensics. 

Todd: Forensics out 

Craig: here.

She cracked me up. I thought she was hilarious, but you were talking about the, the boy Lucas is just wandering around town and he ends up at that little Christmas village looking kind of place. And a guy comes up behind him. I didn’t figure that guy’s name out until way later either. It’s 

Todd: a Tor, Tor. You really don’t hear his name until the last 15 minutes of the movie, I think.

Yeah. 

Craig: He tells the kid about. Elves? Does the kid tell him he saw something in the barn because he did see something in the barn? 

Todd: The kid sees his display and the guy walks up behind him and says, oh, that’s a barn elf. 

Clip: Oh, okay. Are they good or bad? Uh, if you treat the barn elf nice, he will be good to you and help look after the farm.

But if you make him angry, he will do what?

Todd: But he has had, you’re right, like an experience in the barn where he’s been wandering in there and he’s seen things move or shift around or he’s seen the door creak open and close when he was up in his room looking out the window. So he’s kind of prepped to be interested at this point. He 

Craig: saw glowing eyes from, yeah, from his window.

But this is where it gets even more gremlins y because there are rules. Three of them. The elf hates changes to the farm and that’s going to be a problem because they’re planning on turning that barn into a hotel, which we should talk about. 

Clip: Secondly, he doesn’t like bright artificial light, you know, and he hates loud noises.

So don’t take him to a rave party to put it that way. 

Craig: So then they all go home up to this point. And we’re like a half hour in at this point. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: This feels like a sweet family Christmas movie. I didn’t know at this point what I was getting into and I actually went back to IMDB to check. I thought, I thought this was rated R and I went back to check and I’m like, yes, it is rated R.

I’m like, what is happening? Is it just because they say f every once in a while? No, I mean, it earns its R rating later, but up to this point, it just seems like a sweet family Christmas movie. 

Todd: Even with the next scene, it kind of feels that way too. Because, what I didn’t expect, is that, you know, it’s nighttime, and Lucas goes into the barn, intending to see this elf, and he sure enough does.

Like, this elf literally walks out. And he looks great, by the way. Yeah. All the elves. in this movie are fantastic. They’re all played by little people, I think. The main elf, the main barn elf, is played by an actor named Kiran Shah. This guy, ugh, is 

Craig: He works all the time. 

Todd: veteran of the movies, like, he was, um, Abu in Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Ended up doing the Star Wars movies with Ewok. Legend. You know, we did Gothic. He was the Fuseli monster in Gothic and just, he’s been working nonstop in every movie you’ve seen that, that needs a little person in it. So, uh, he’s pretty old actually. 

Craig: But you were saying like, yes, this scene too, when he meets the elf, this feels like ET or something.

And yes, the score behind it feels like those old, like Amblin. Movies, or those old Touchstone movies where this is, this is Mac and me, this is E. T., this is, you know, like, Oh, look, they’re gonna have a nice little friendship. And they do, for a second. For a 

Todd: little while, they do! I’m thinking, this isn’t gonna be horrible.

Except, the family has other Airbnb or something. 

Craig: That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever, like It’s so 

Todd: stupid. 

Craig: Heh heh. That barn, it looks sturdier from the outside than it looks from the inside. Like, it is nothing. They, there’s nothing there. Like, it’s just a frame. 

Todd: You’re gonna have to basically build a new building in here.

Yes, 

Craig: absolutely. At one point, she shows somebody pictures on her phone of the mock up and they had, like, it’s like this luxurious, Condominium kind of thing like much nicer than their house. Yes. Anyway, it’s silly But obviously that’s gonna change some things. Yep barn elves not gonna like that. That’s rule number 

Todd: one screwed up 

Craig: They’re going to throw a party in the barn.

But first the dad goes to Clear snow, but it’s already done. And not only is it done, it’s just beautiful. Like it’s just perfectly, perfectly cleared. 

Todd: He just thinks the town did it for him. I love this library comes in. He’s like, and now you see how social democracy works. Lucas, pay your taxes and they fix stuff for you.

Craig: Oh, the elf then visits Lucas’s room. Cause they’re buddies and there are a lot of fun Christmas songs. And then there’s a whole montage. To Holly Jolly Christmas, where tons of work is getting done. Like, they’re working, but then also the elf, I think, is doing a lot of work, too. But, then, that’s when dad, Clark Griswold’s And so now things are changing, and Lucas tries to tell them about the elf, but nobody will listen.

Todd: Yeah, he even posts the rules on the fridge. It’s so like Gremlins, it’s so cute. You know, obviously this is going badly. So Dad has put Christmas lights up everywhere, Clark Griswold fashion, like you said, and the next morning they get destroyed. Lucas is telling them about the barn elf. 

Craig: I like that the cop, because they called the cop, and the cop was like, It could have been the moose coming back for revenge.

Todd: And she cackles as she takes off again in her little snowmobile. It’s so funny. At one point, dad and mom are inside the barn talking and, uh, there’s, I think that’s when they’re setting up for the party and he turns to her and goes, you’re in Norway now, nothing bad ever happens here. And shortly thereafter, he gets whacked by a barrel.

Craig: Yeah. The elf rolls a barrel onto their heads. And Lucas is like, how could you do that? I thought we were friends. They’re not 

Todd: then the party 

Craig: and then they, they have their party. Yeah. He’s been trying to learn. Norwegian, like with Duolingo or something. Every time he tries, he’s totally off it. Like, he tries to give a toast, but what he says is, My wife and I have made a concoction with my nuts.

Todd: It’s such an old gag, but it just, it works really well. 

Craig: It’s, it’s Clark Griswold. It is. So obvious, but the party’s super boring and like super awkward. Like nobody’s talking to each other until they all start drinking and then they all get wasted and the party, they have a great party. 

Todd: Carol turns to Bill and says, Norwegians are so friendly.

They just needed alcohol. Lots of it. Who knew? Who knew? So, a woman mentions the Haunted Farm rumors to Carol, so that kind of like clues her in about that. And then Nora, who is still not happy with being here, kind of makes a little friend who cajoles her into drinking some alcohol, and she’s drinking this like, Moonshine?

Moonshine, yeah. That that guy made that says like 96 percent on it, and she ends up puking. On the elf because the elf is underneath the floorboards just like bristling and angry staring up at this party happening And then she pukes on his face 

Craig: Yeah, and I guess lucas is worried like he keeps trying to turn the music down and he eventually he shuts the music off And he says party’s over and I don’t remember if everybody leaves at that point or not But the museum guy talks to him.

He’s like, hey, what’s wrong? And he’s like, it’s He’s gonna be mad and like the guy doesn’t believe him, but he can tell that the kid is really upset. So he’s like, well, look, all you have to do is on Christmas Eve put a bowl of porridge with like cinnamon and sugar on the top in the barn as a peace offering and everything will be fine with the elf.

And then they all go to bed for the night and the elf destroys the kitchen. I mean, I guess this guy. Like, even though he doesn’t believe, because he’s the curator, I guess, of that museum, he knows the lore. He doesn’t believe it, but he knows it, so that’s handy. Yeah, 

Todd: all of that really surprised me, you know?

Like you said, I just thought everybody knew there was an elf there. It wasn’t like that town was hiding this big secret. And even this guy, I thought, well, he’s the one guy who, like, knows, you know, or at least believes. I mean, he’s got the museum for God’s sake, but no, he doesn’t either. He’s just like, no, these are just, uh, stories.

So, um, that surprised me that even he took a long time to come around to believing that there were elves there. This is where we kind of get our first bit of violence. You know, Bill comes downstairs, sees smashing plates and the kitchen trashed, uh, wanders around with a knife and finds the elf’s hat by the door to the basement.

And when he bends down to pick it up, the elf runs up behind him and kicks him down the basement staircase. And I thought, is Bill dead? No. No, he’s not dead. He’s not dead at all. No, he’s actually fine. Carol picks up a giant leg of lamb from their dinner, I guess, to use as a club, and the elf follows her.

Lucas comes in the room and turns on the lights, and suddenly he’s gone. The elf is gone. And the policewoman comes. And she blames a fox, which, which Bill is only too happy to believe. Like, he’s like, Oh, well, that’s a relief. Thank goodness. Oh, it’s a fox. Aren’t you happy to hear that? 

Craig: And it was at that point that I was like, okay, that’s stupid.

Like something forcibly pushed him down the stairs. A fox doesn’t push you down the stairs and close and lock the door. Like foxes don’t do that. But I think that that scene was to establish that. This elf will hurt and or kill them. Like, let’s just make that very clear. The cop also, again, I can’t do her justice.

You re If you, if you haven’t seen this movie, folks, you should watch it. Yeah. You’ll find this cop very funny. She’s like, oh yeah, I guess the party got a little out of control. That can happen when you have a little too much to drink. And she just talks to them like they are Alcoholics. And like, she’s like, yeah, maybe lay off the booze a little bit.

You know, the kids as she’s walking out, she’s walking out. She’s like, don’t drive drunk. 

Todd: I halfway expected a Minnesota accent coming out of her mouth. You know, she just has that look and that feel what other movies. You know, is there a character like this? I mean, there’s there’s several like this is a very stereotypical Fargo, maybe that’s the one she was really channeling there.

But anyway, lucas is doing as is instructed. He’s made the porridge He’s put it in the fridge He’s prepared it for for later in the evening when he’s going to bring it out and dad because he’s been Looking up this on the internet is so happy to make lutefisk which You get your Ludovic gag because everybody, if there’s anything anybody knows about Norway, it’s that Ludovic is awful, but they eat it up there.

And Carol freaks out, Bill eats the porridge. And 

Craig: the kid’s like, God, it’s just funny as I’m remembering it. It strikes me as funny when the kid says, that was all the porridge we had. What? You 

Todd: couldn’t make 

Craig: more? What? Make some more. Like, did you use, like the last couple of days? Half a cup of rice? Like? 

Todd: As concerned as he is that they follow the rules, ultimately, when he doesn’t or when he can’t, he just kind of is like, eh, about it, you know?

Yeah. It’s not like he storms in to try to stop the party, he puts up with it for a while before he shuts it down. And this thing with the porridge, he went through all this effort, he’s not going to stay up late if necessary just to do that to appease the elf. 

Craig: The line suggests something. to me like, oh no, I can’t make more.

But that was, that just seemed ridiculous to me. Yeah, it’s silly. And so instead he gives the elf the lutefisk. Again, I get it. It’s a joke. It’s a gag. I get it. But kind of dumb. It is dumb. Give him a Twinkie or something. 

Todd: Just give him a pile of cookies. He loves those cookies. He 

Craig: loves those cookies.

Exactly. A 

Todd: huge pile with a bow around it or something. But. Of course, the elf doesn’t like Ludafisk, and that’s the joke. He’s enraged. And so the elf turns evil, looks up at the sky, and his teeth are now pointy, and his eyes are black, and he grabs a hammer, and a storm’s outside. And that’s when we get our second kill, basically.

Mm hmm. It’s kind of clunky here. I think this setup is kind of clunky, because the Come on. Okay, so Bill enlisted Raymond to come and play Santa for his, like, teenage kids? 

Craig: Well, not on purpose. He was gonna ask Raymond for some other favor, but I don’t remember what that other favor was. That was Raymond was I don’t think that was it.

Raymond was drunk, and Bill said, Can I ask you a favor? And Raymond said, You want me to play Santa on Christmas Eve? I’ll do it. I love playing Santa on Christmas Eve and I, I, I felt like Bill was like, uh, 

Todd: Oh, I felt like Bill. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: I felt like Bill, he nailed it. What Bill was asking for. I, I don’t know. Well, 

Craig: maybe you were right.

Maybe you’re right. I don’t know. But yes, I mean, it, Bill is expecting him. So yes, they have this arrangement, but he shows up and he sees the elf standing there, you know, by the barn with the hammer, but he thinks it’s the kid. I mean, he’s really drunk. So whatever. Yeah. But he follows the elf around the side of the barn.

The house, actually. Isn’t it the house? No, it’s the barn. It’s the barn. 

Todd: Oh, okay. 

Craig: They’re just standing there, facing each other, standing next to the barn, and the elf starts banging his hammer against the barn, which I don’t understand why the family wouldn’t have heard that, but whatever. And he bangs it like two or three times, and the guy’s like, what are you doing?

And I guess eventually he looks up, so the camera looks up too, and there’s a bunch of icicles up there, and It falls right through his head, doesn’t it? 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I thought it was, I don’t know, I mean, I like a good icicle kill, that’s fun. I thought that he was trying to make the snow fall off the roof. I was like, oh, he’s gonna bury him in the snow.

But, I was wrong. 

Todd: And then Bill comes outside and sees Raymond and he’s hanging by the Christmas light. The elf has strung 

Craig: him up. Yeah, strung him up outside the barn. So he’s like dangling from Christmas light. 

Todd: And this is when pandemonium starts. 

Craig: Yeah, exactly. Well, I’m glad that Bill runs inside and is like, we have to get out of here right now.

Like, it’s, it’s so rare that people do that. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: But they try to leave. And of course the car won’t start because cars never start in horror movies. And the elf attacks in it. They Somehow get him in front of the car and the kid says turn on the lights and it they turn on the lights and that Like knocks it out.

Yeah, it falls over backwards. This is an unconscious. 

Todd: They really don’t like bright lights 

Craig: That I don’t know that rule kind of comes and goes It does. 

Todd: They’re an awful lot of light, a lot of the movie. They’re in an awful lot of light, and they don’t care. But you shine a flashlight in their face and suddenly it’s like kryptonite.

Craig: It burns them. Yeah, right. I don’t know. But it knocks them out, but the kids run inside because the parents tell them to, and the parents walk over and stand over its body like dummies, and eventually its eyes open up and it screams, and it’s like, It’s projected to us because the parents cover their ears and they show it radiating across the land That this is like a super super loud scream and within seconds an army of elves arrives They just come they just come flooding out of the barn.

Todd: It’s so great. 

Craig: I don’t really understand this 

Todd: No, I don’t either. Oh, do they have underground tunnels? 

Craig: They have underground tunnels. They have Like an elf village, not very far away. So, and it appears to be out in the open. Do those tunnels go to a mystical land? Like, I, I really don’t understand that. And also like.

Are these Woods Elves? And are Woods Elves and Barn Elves friends? I know, right? There’s a lot we don’t know. Yeah, when they showed the call, radiating like, you know, through the wilderness, I thought, oh, well, he’s calling all the other Barn Elves and the Barn Elves will get there somehow. But that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: This seems to be like a village of a huge village of like what roughly 20 or more 

Todd: At least yeah, because at first it looked like a small group, but then they just keep coming at first I thought oh, it’s like it’s like, uh, maybe eight or nine six. Yeah, but then It becomes a home invasion movie where they retreat to their house and the elves are coming in like zombies, breaking through the windows, running, you know, in, and they just keep coming, and it’s like they seem to dispatch them, but more are still there.

I never really got a good handle on how many elves there actually were. I don’t know if it was just like, we were supposed to believe there were just dozens of them, or if they just kept getting up. You know, because it seems really hard to kill these things. You think they’re killing them, but they’re not.

Craig: Yeah, right. Like, it seems like Mom kills one with, like, the star from the top of the Christmas tree. Like, she throws it at its face or something. And then Nora, who it’s been established was a softball player back in the States, sees a bat and picks it up. And it’s, you know, that scene from Signs. And, like, it’s, like, Nora swings away and she just starts, she just starts like nailing them with her bat and the mom protects the kids.

Like, look, the mom, she really loves them and they’re going to see, and they’re, they’re going to bond through this. 

Todd: Yeah. There’s definitely that vibe throughout. 

Craig: The cop shows up. And it’s, they’re like, Oh my God, you have to help. Blah, blah. And she doesn’t believe them. She thinks they’re drunk again. And they’re like, where’s your gun?

And she’s like, I don’t have a gun. This isn’t America. We don’t just go around shooting people in the face. 

Todd: This was a running gag that got a little old, I think. But I mean, I thought it was funny. 

Craig: I thought it was hilarious. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I, I, I fully, fully believe that that’s how much of the world views us. Oh, yes.

And they’re not far from wrong. So Dude, 

Todd: I was literally talking about this at brunch today with a German person. So yeah. That is how they view 

Craig: us. Anyway, but she doesn’t believe them until they hear her snowmobile fire up outside and they go outside and one of the elves is just joyriding on the thing.

Like that’s why this is also, it’s so much like Gremlins because I don’t know. When it happens, like, the cop, like, runs out there and, like, tells the elf to get off the snowmobile, but it doesn’t, and then it runs her over, and, like, the snowmobile, like, spews blood all out the back, all over the family, like, just, right in their faces.

Todd: That was hilarious. It was also shocking. I did not expect the cop to go. 

Craig: Uh, I kinda did. 

Todd: You’re thinking gremlins, yeah, I guess so. But She was so charming. 

Craig: She was. I liked her. It’s not like I wanted her to die. I just figured she was disposable, you know? She’s just comic relief. Because I thought they are not going to kill anybody in this family.

They’re just not. True. If they had, I would have been shocked, and I think I wouldn’t have been happy about it. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: There was a moment when I was scared for the stepmom. But we’re not there yet. Anyway, the elf cra crashes the uh, snowmobile into the barn and we see that gas is leaking out which, remember that for later.

But then the elf gets the gun off the snowmobile, shoots another elf, and then himself, I think more gun. Commentary there. That was so dark. Yeah, cuz he doesn’t know what he’s doing with it He’s not to get too dark, but he’s just like a kid with a gun like he doesn’t get it 

Todd: Yeah 

Craig: and then there seems to kind of be like an elder elf that is in charge of the Tribe and they’re speaking gibberish language But they’re clearly making a plan and and we kind of get the sense that our main elf like the barn elf isn’t Totally down with the plan.

But at this point, I don’t know All the elves get drunk, which again, it’s totally gremlins. Like it’s the scene in the bar where they’re all just being goofy and drinking and having a great time. But this was also the part where it bothered me because they’re in the house and all the lights are on now, to be fair, or, or were those candles, they were fairly damn, I guess.

Todd: Even they did not have candles that many candles in their house. Plus they crowd around a big, bright TV 

Craig: and they’re playing loud music. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Maybe woods elves have different rules. Well it could 

Todd: be. That could be. Maybe we just say that. The bright still hurts them though. So like 

Craig: Maybe barn elves are barn elves because they’re like introverts and they just like to be by themselves and they’re so they’re just like grouchy old people and they don’t like noise and they don’t like change.

So they’re so so basically me. 

Todd: You’re a barn elf. 

Craig: And the woods elves are cool. They’re like partying, they’re having a good time. Yeah. That must be what it 

Todd: is. I mean, they are kind of like isolated from the rest of the tribe, right? I mean, they’re off in somebody’s barn instead of in that little village.

Craig: Right. They’re just the grouchy old men of the elves. I get it. I get it. I feel that. 

Todd: You 

Craig: feel 

Todd: for her. Yeah. 

Craig: I do. I mean, they’re not bothering anybody. They’re helpful. I could have a, like, I would love to have a barn elf, like, we’ll just keep to ourselves. 

Todd: That guy chopped up so much wood for this dude, and just for a couple cookies.

I could keep it down. I could keep a barn elf happy if that’s the result. Not this result, though. This is, this is shit. This is horrible. They’re, they’re all trashing the place downstairs. 

Craig: Yeah. But while they’re downstairs trashing the place, the family is just up there. Hold up in the daughter’s bedroom, and I also thought like what are you doing?

Like you can tell they’re obviously preoccupied downstairs like get out of it out Now is the time. What are you waiting for? 

Todd: Yeah, no, nobody’s coming. This is the moment the family comes together This is their big come to Jesus moment. Dad has his big apology speech, but 

Craig: somebody says Well, we’ve had worse Christmases.

That was hilarious. Oh my 

Todd: god, that was hilarious. And then they’re just describing like some Christmas where they all had to take shits in the bathroom and like one Christmas where they were walking around On the airplane, 

Craig: it was even worse. 

Todd: I’m like, that was worse than these people being murdered around you?

I don’t know about that. The 

Craig: younger than 12 year old son walked in on his grandmother and her lover, Stefan, more than once. 

Todd: That would be pretty traumatic, though. I mean, I have to admit. 

Craig: Yeah. Anyway, but the elves are destroying the house and the main elf doesn’t like it. So Dad and Lucas go for help on the sled.

Finally. The mom and the daughter, yeah, the mom and the daughter stay behind because the mom got stabbed in the leg. She’s okay, apparently, but she can’t walk. 

Todd: They jump out the window onto a conveniently placed pile of snow. That’s helpful. 

Craig: I thought that was a funny joke, though, too, because It almost seemed like they expected the same thing I expected.

Oh, we’ll jump onto this pile of snow that will cushion our landing. No, it’s rock hard. Yeah, 

Todd: they hit it and slide down. But, but this next bit is just total comedy. Like, they start skiing down the hill. So there’s like, it’s like one of these sleds, kind of a, I guess, like an adult sled or whatever, with a proper seat on it that the kids sitting on and the dad standing behind it.

And as they’re, as they’re, careening down the mountain on this sled. There are two elves behind them in a similar sled and he has a stack of saw blades, like circular saw blades that he is chucking an 

Craig: endless stack of them, apparently, but 

Todd: you know, it just creates this moment, this action scene. 

Craig: Well, and it’s, I know I keep bringing it up.

I apologize if it’s annoying listener, but it, to me, it was the sled scene from national Lampoon. 

Todd: Oh yeah. Right 

Craig: with a, with a little bit more. You know, higher stakes. 

Todd: Right. You’re right. You’re right. 

Craig: Meanwhile, the mom and the sister are back at the house and having their 

Todd: moment 

Craig: and They’re like we’re gonna have to fight or something.

The mom’s like, well, they seem to be afraid of fire Do you have anything flammable in here? And the daughter’s like, well, I Might have some moonshine and the mom says we’re gonna talk about that later. But great get it. It’s perfect And so then they start making, this is, this is so funny. I mean, it’s, the movie jumped the shark a long time ago and again, I don’t care.

Todd: That’s funny. Um, 

Craig: but they, they start making Molotov cocktails out of Christmas tree ornament, 

Todd: moonshine and sparklers. Yep. 

Craig: Yeah. Is that what those were? Were they sparklers? I couldn’t figure it out. I was like, okay, alright, I’ll buy Molotov cocktails and these Christmas ornaments, but where did they get wicks?

But okay, sparklers, alright, fine. And they start throwing them down. Well, I don’t know, I feel like the elves get in there at some point, but 

Todd: Eventually they do. Yeah, what happens is they toss them down, they seem to scare the elves off, some of them explode, and you know, all that stuff, so then they’re really happy with themselves, so they just sit down again.

Like, like, okay, and have a heart to heart. What was your purpose here? You know, you’re throwing those Molotov cocktails down there, presumably to destroy the elves or distract them so you could get away, right? But, no, they just, like, okay, well we did that, and they sit down again. I mean, I’d be worried that the elves are gonna try to come up now.

You know, like they do and they do. So it’s kind of silly, but they got to have their moment, their mother and daughter moment, but they hear a noise in the chimney because in the daughter’s room is a fireplace that they haven’t really paid attention to. I guess it’s got doors on it. So, so yeah. So another action scene ensues where these elves try to burst through and they try to shut the door.

And then the mom yells to her daughter, go get help. And she’s like, okay, so she leaves her mom in this room that is about to be besieged by elves to just go, do what? Go after the other two? Like, I didn’t get that at all. It was kind of dumb. But, mom 

Craig: I don’t know. I mean, again, it’s the mom, you know, she’s She’s making, she’s sacrificing, like, I mean, you get out of here.

I’ll hold them off. I’ll sacrifice myself for you. And, and the elves get in there, but we don’t see what happens. And then Nora’s in the woods and she’s surrounded by glowing eyes. And then it cuts away from her and we don’t know what happens. And the whole reason that the dad and the son left was because the son knows that the museum guy lives just down the road.

So the elves that were chasing them get hit by a semi and they make it to, uh, The guy’s house and they are like, yeah, it’s true. There’s barn elves and he still doesn’t believe, but he agrees to go with them and take them back home and they get there and immediately see the elves. And he’s like, Oh, they’re real.

And the dad’s like, uh, yeah, we told you. And he’s like, 

Todd: what did you do to make them mad? And the kid’s like, we broke all the rules. He’s like, all of them? I’m thinking, yeah, he did. They broke every single rule. They didn’t even get the porridge to the poor little kid. The poor little guy. Oh my God. 

Craig: Yeah. So they, they follow, they’re very obvious about it.

They follow the elves into the barn. It’s almost as though. 

Todd: They’re being led. They’re not 

Craig: scared of them anymore. It’s weird. 

Todd: Or the elves don’t care anymore. It’s, or, yeah. 

Craig: It’s hard to believe that the elves don’t notice, but whatever, who cares? They see two elves go down into this hatch in the barn that we’ve never seen before, and so they follow them down there into these tunnels that you mentioned before.

And they go through these tunnels and come out, back into the forest, seemingly, and there’s this weird, like, village of these little huts. I mean, they’re tiny, tiny. They almost look like Big eggs or pods or 

Todd: something 

Craig: But nora and the mom are tied up to a stake in the middle And so they go they run up and they start trying to untie them, but that leader elf shows up with the gun The museum guy tries to negotiate peace.

He’s been talking about this He makes the same joke about not shooting people in the face 

Todd: And then he’s talking about the oslo accords. Actually. I thought what what he was saying was quite funny but god the It doesn’t play well now, 

Craig: you know? It’s not well timed right now, but yeah, I mean, I understand, I get the concept.

I think they’re making a joke of how, Whatever. I get it. You get it. We all get it. It’s like, here’s, you know, 

Todd: you dumb Americans, you think we should rush in and just like destroy everything. It’s kill or be killed. And then, you know, everybody dies. Us Norwegians, we believe in making peace and negotiating.

And so he’s going to do that. But of course, yeah, the gag is going to be that the negotiations don’t work or do they, right? So he starts his negotiations. And the elf shoots him. And the old elf 

Craig: shoots him. 

Todd: That’s it. Yeah, I wish I saw something. 

Craig: I did too, and I thought it was a funny joke. I mean, that elf is kind of like the spike of gremlins, you know?

Yes. You’re not, you’re not going to negotiate with them. I thought it was funny, but I, I also don’t understand this because, again, I’ve only watched it once on my laptop, but I’m pretty sure I saw blood fly. And then here in about three minutes. He’s fine. Even, his arm’s even fine, 

Todd: you know, it’s just like, come on.

Craig: Yeah. He was 

Todd: shot in the shoulder. The 

Craig: L’s, yeah. Yeah. I know, but, people act like that’s not a big deal, like, oh, I’m fine. No, you are 

Todd: down. I really thought he was dead at this point, yeah. 

Craig: But Lucas sees the, the barn elf and he, when they were friends, he like, made like a sign of peace, like he touches his chest and that means like we’re friends or peace or something, I don’t know.

So he makes that to the main elf. And so the main elf comes and helps cut mom and Nora free, but all of them now are surrounded in the barn. The barn elf argues with the gun elf, and the gun elf goes to shoot him, but the gun is empty. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: So I guess they run, and they run up into the loft. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: The, the, the women are like, yeah, we got this.

And so the, the guys jump out. The barn again, 

Todd: and the girls blow up the barn because the daughter had been making these little paper airplanes because she was bored in her room pouting earlier. So she makes a paper airplane, lights it on fire and tosses it down. So, you know, it spins in a spiral circle that everybody watches and then hits the, the gasoline that’s on the ground, which, you know, she could have just dropped a piece of paper down there.

It would have been the same. I mean, it was just kind of a dramatic moment. It wouldn’t have looked as good though. Yeah, it wouldn’t have looked as good. It wouldn’t have been as dramatic. 

Craig: I thought it was a great shot. And I also kind of liked, I liked the slow shot and it’s over some beautiful slow Christmas carol.

Like, um, I don’t remember which one it was, but you know, the, the, it goes to slow mode to follow this plane, this flaming paper airplane and some beautiful Christmas carols playing in the background 

Todd: and 

Craig: the elves are all watching it like in awe and wonder. 

Todd: Um, 

Craig: and then it hits. And we’ve also seen that there’s like tanks or bags of something that’s explosive.

I don’t know what that was, but we’ve seen it a bunch of times. 

Todd: Blows up the bomb. 

Craig: And so, yeah. It, yeah, it starts to explode. The girls jump out and get there jumping out of a building explosion, which is great. But now, the main elf is sad. Cause he lost his home. Cause he lost his home. And I love that. 

Todd: One of the kids says, I think, can he live with us?

And mom says, honey, he can’t stay here. We just piss him off again. 

Craig: I, I thought that was funny. I thought that it was going to return to. The cute like fun family thing like we’ll build him a new barn and we won’t break the rules And we’ll all live happy and the ending will be over a montage of family goofy family vacation shots with us in the barn elf and But she’s like my and I thought you know, it’s the it’s the chunk and sloth moment like oh you can live with us now But he’s like can he live with us?

Oh, no No, no, no. That ain’t happening. That’s out of the question. And the kid’s like, but where will he go? And the museum guy is like, I’ve got an idea. So they take him to live in the Elf Museum in town. Now, I don’t understand this either. Uh huh. I guess he just has to be really good at hiding? Cause he’s literally like, in the town square.

Yeah, 

Todd: also it’s not a barn. There’s nothing barny about that. I mean there’s a tiny little barn. Well he could, he could help keep it up. I suppose. Yeah, but he’s a new kind of elf now. Now he’s a museum elf. He’s not a barn elf. That’s true. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t think he’s going to like it there.

Todd: He’s probably pissed off his fellow elves as well. So like, uh, I don’t, I don’t think screaming and getting it. I mean, he’s probably going to have to take what he can get is what I’m trying to say. 

Craig: Yeah. I don’t think it turns out so great for him in the end, but they all stand and look at the Northern Lights and it’s beautiful.

And the dad says, when all said and done. This was a pretty good Christmas. And again, it’s almost that exact shot where the Griswolds are standing outdoors all together, looking up at the sky and all said and done. It was a pretty good Christmas. And then Darlene Love starts singing. 

Todd: No little zinger or anything like that.

Craig: I liked it. 

Todd: I liked it too. You know, I just, I went online and I saw the reviews are just kind of middling about this and I don’t understand that. I know. We’ve seen a lot of other, you know, Christmas movies that try to be this cute. And they fail. They’re just like, awkward, or a little uneven, or maybe a little too cliche.

I mean, this had it, this was cliche in many ways, but I don’t know, there was just, there was just enough about it that was interesting and different that I, that I really enjoyed it. Plus, you know, we said it a million times in the beginning, it’s just very heartwarming. It’s just Christmassy through in and throughout, and I enjoyed it a lot.

Craig: Yeah, it’s really fun. Like, it’s not a 10, you know, like, it’s not, We’ve, we’ve reviewed better Christmas movies, but I still think it’s good. I had a lot of fun watching it. It certainly wasn’t boring. It was very funny in places. There were lots of fun gags. There was a funny gag where two of the elves were after they were drunk, they were standing in the yard peeing and one obviously looks over at the other one’s dick and starts laughing.

Just goofy stuff like that. Yeah. The family stuff was cliche, but. Typical, but whatever. I still enjoyed it. It’s still, you know, it landed. I totally thought it landed. I didn’t think, you know, there were parts that were goofy. It certainly jumped the shark in places, but movies like this do all the time. Was it entirely unique and creative?

No, we’ve seen elf movies before. We’ve seen these kind of home invasion Christmas movies before. But I like them and this is a good one. So yeah, I will recommend this to people. I think it’s a lot of fun and I think it’s got a lot of appeal. Again, Christmas, family stuff, 

Clip: Christmas 

Craig: music, comedy. Some people might be turned off by the gore.

And if you’re not big into gore, then you probably, you know, it’s probably not going to be for you. Cause it does get gory in that second half. It does. There’s lots of blood. 

Todd: There’s a lot of blood, but even then it’s not too bad. It’s just 

Craig: CGI blood splatters. 

Todd: Yeah, it’s some blood splatters here and there, like, when we talked about, for example, the two elves, like, the one shooting himself in the face and the other one, it’s an off screen thing.

So, like, they do actually restrain themselves considerably on, on making things too graphic. They could have gone further and they didn’t. I felt like they were trying to keep it light, you know, that’s what made it a little different from Krampus. Krampus felt kind of deep. Krampus had this, like, serious message, more or less, by the end of it.

Whereas this, you know, it doesn’t, it doesn’t really have the serious message. It’s just, uh, 

Craig: well, appreciate your family. 

Todd: Yeah. Appreciate your family. You come together at Christmas time to solve your problems and your challenges and, and don’t piss off the barn elves. 

Craig: Right. Keep it down. 

Todd: Yeah. Keep it down and keep the lights dim.

Well, thank you guys so much for listening. Really, we’re so excited about this holiday season coming up. If you have ideas for movies that are coming to your mind as you hear this, that we haven’t done yet, send us a message anywhere you can find us online. You just Google two guys in a chainsaw podcast.

You’ll find our website at ChainsawHorror. com. There’s even a speak to us button at the top where you can just record a one minute message, actually, and send that straight to us. Or you can just shoot us an email, leave us a review as well on your favorite podcast channel. So there are a lot of ways to get through to us and let us know what you think of the show and what you’d like to see us do this holiday season and beyond.

We hope you’re going to have a good, safe, and happy one. And we will be with you every step of the way these next three weeks. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Happy Thanksgiving, Dear Listeners! We celebrate with a look at Eli Roth’s long-promised Thanksgiving horror film from 2023, based off the fake trailer he shot for Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino’s Grindhouse double-feature. A masked John Carver (har har) seeks his revenge for a Black Friday event gone horribly wrong the previous year.

It’s a modern horror film with a classical sensibility that was a feast for the senses this holiday season. What are we thankful for? As always, we’re thankful for you and the community that we share. Cheers to all of you!

Episode 417, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig. Happy Thanksgiving, Todd.

Todd: Happy Thanksgiving, Craig. It is that time of year again. Are you getting ready to settle down to some turkey and cranberry sauce? 

Craig: I will do the same thing I do every year and get together with my family and eat some really good food and appreciate almost a full week off of work.

I think it’s going to be a very much needed break. I’m very much looking forward to it. 

Todd: I can guess that. Yeah, I’m spending it with my son. And that, uh, Yay! This will be the first Thanksgiving I’ve spent with him in two years, I guess. So yeah. That’s wonderful. So last year, in 2023, Eli Roth made good on his promise to make a movie out of that hilarious, that hilarious fake trailer that he made for Grindhouse.

That Robert Rodriguez, Quentin Tarantino movie that had all the fake trailers in between was done as like a double feature. Yeah, because it was like 

Craig: a double, it was a double feature. 

Todd: Yeah, I, gosh, I loved that movie, and I loved the trailers, I loved the whole concept of what they did, but I never had imagined that those, those silly trailers would actually be made into movies, and yet, three of them happened.

Almost all of 

Craig: them have, yeah. So crazy. And it’s three of five, I think, right? 

Todd: Uh huh, and I know that Eli Roth almost from the get go was like, no, we’re making this movie. Apparently, he and his childhood friend had written a screenplay, or a script, or treatment, or something, for this movie that, basically a slasher movie that would take place at Thanksgiving, back when they were 18.

So, I think they had this idea in the works for quite a while, and that provided the impetus to do it. But he took his time with it. I mean, he took a good solid, what, Almost, what, 15 years? What, that came out in what, 2007? And so between 2007 and 2023 is what? How’s my math? I know it’s all 13, 16 years! 16 years.

And it kinda got in and out of development here and there. Roth was just basically like, We’re waiting for the script to get good enough. And This is what they put together. Like I said, it was his childhood friend, Jeff Rendell, who wrote this. Yeah, so last year, the timing wasn’t right, plus me being here, it’s kinda hard for me to see a brand new movie, so we weren’t able to do the 2023 Thanksgiving.

on Thanksgiving Day. Instead, we said we’re gonna do it next year. So here we are in 2024, and we have a movie called Thanksgiving that we can do on Thanksgiving. So, doesn’t get any better than that. 

Craig: I was talking to Alan yesterday, and I was like, we’re recording our Thanksgiving episode tomorrow, and he said, what’s the movie?

And I looked at him with a big shitty ingrat on my face, said, Thanksgiving.

It’s hilarious. It’s funny to me that I didn’t know the things that you just said, that it was an idea that he’s had for a really long time. I didn’t know. It’s a great idea. 

Clip: You know, 

Craig: like there, there are hundreds of Christmas horror movies. I think that horror movie fans like us, When the holidays come around we’re like hmm.

I wonder if there are any Arbor Day horror movies

Like we’re actively Looking for them and there aren’t as many Thanksgiving ones. We’ve done some really fun ones. Oh we have But there there aren’t a lot. So I think it’s a brilliant idea. I Honestly, just okay. So I I Had never seen the movie. I just watched it yesterday, but I had actually never seen the trailer either And I just watched that about 10 minutes ago.

I will say, I will say that I enjoyed the trailer more than the movie Oh, yeah, but I don’t think they could have gone as gonzo As the trailer suggested. Yeah. For the whole time. 

Todd: No way. The whole time. 

Craig: I don’t think they could, I don’t think they could have pulled that off for an hour and a half or an hour and 45 minutes or whatever, cause it was crazy.

But yeah, probably Eli Roth felt a little bit responsible to including some of the details from the trailer. And, and some of the most shocking things from the movie are things from the trailer. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I think I’m glad that I saw the movie first, because I think I may have been a little bit let down if I had seen the trailer first.

I think that I would have been expecting something, like, like, Oh, holy shit, I can’t believe he’s gonna make this movie. Right. This might have felt a little tame. Mm hmm. But I did read something about that. Did you read that too? 

Todd: Yeah. He 

Craig: said the trailer that he made and that people saw was for a movie that was made in the 70s or something.

I don’t know. Don’t fact check me. 

Todd: He said, let’s pretend this Thanksgiving was a movie from 1980 that was so offensive that it was That every print was destroyed, all the scripts were burned, the director disappeared, the crew members changed their names, and one person saved the trailer and uploaded it to the darkest corners of 4chan, and now it’s made it out.

So this is the 2023 reboot. And he said, once they said that, it freed them up to, you know, have a little more flexibility. with the kind of movie they were more interested in. That’s 

Craig: actually really clever. Yeah, it is, it is. 

Todd: Cause I saw the trailer first. Cause I saw it way years ago when I saw Grindhouse and I thought it was shocking and hilarious but it’s a trailer that is very much supposed to be of this Like, again, early slasher era, low budget, cheap exploitation film that would show in a grindhouse and it’s brutal like those are.

It’s amateurish and it looks like a movie that could have been made back then. Yeah. Now I feel like Eli Roth, you know, I mean, it’s 2024, 2023. He’s 16 years older than he was when he even made that. He’s an older guy. He’s made kids movies now. So I think he’s probably in a different place than he was back then.

When I read that quote, it almost feels like it was like a sense of relief. Like, okay, we don’t have to make that movie. Cause I don’t feel like E. Roy Roth is above making a movie like that. I mean, hell, like, That’s what he’s known for. Cabin Fever and Hostel. They’re, they’re wild, crazy, intense, gory, some may say tasteless rides.

I’m happy I saw the trailer first because I was waiting for those iconic moments. I was really hoping he would, he would include those. And then when I saw those moments coming, I was like, Oh man, is he’s not going to really do that, 

Craig: is he? Those things to me were shocking when I saw them, you know what I’m saying?

Like in the movie, as opposed to, I wasn’t. Waiting for them. So when they came, I was shocked. 

Todd: That makes sense. And so I wasn’t as shocked, but the trailer was what shocked me. So yeah, I was glad I saw it beforehand because I liked having that anticipation. But I agree with you in your other point, and that is that I came into this expecting a different kind of movie.

I really came into this expecting him to make a movie like that. And at first, I was a little disappointed that it wasn’t. Especially when it opens up with the whole Black Friday thing, and all these kids, and they’re all saying the F word every other sentence, and it’s his typical kind of smarmy, goofy humor.

But then, as the movie settled in, and it got past the opening scene, it started to feel very familiar to me. I was like, oh, this is actually a great homage to those earlier slasher movies. I mean, I was getting vibes of like any one of those that takes place in a high school prom night. 

Craig: Yeah, and any masked killer.

Todd: Yeah. Down to the, I can’t remember which one it was, I, I wanna say it was, um, Final Exam, but I, I could be wrong, or maybe it was, uh, uh, anyway. 

Craig: Valentine’s Day? It reminded me of Valentine’s Day. 

Todd: It reminded me a lot, yeah. It remind, yeah, me too. But there’s one in particular that’s, that was a little more Giallo like, right, where the, where the killer would every, every time a person was killed, he’d pull out a, a picture and cross another person off of the photo of the 

Craig: kids.

Uh, yeah, I don’t know, pieces, I don’t know. Something like right, I know what you’re talking about. It, it did to me also feel like, hey, this is an old school thing. That’s what he’s doing. And it’s good. Like I enjoyed that part of it. And I also want to say like, I don’t know really a whole lot about Eli Roth as a person.

And maybe that’s smart of him. You know, what, what I, what I do know about him is that he makes entertaining movies and he’s kind of hit or miss, you know, we’ve reviewed at least one of his movies. The Green Inferno that we didn’t like. 

Todd: No. 

Craig: But I don’t think it was poorly made. I just didn’t like it. I actually think that Eli Roth is a good filmmaker.

I think he’s talented. 

Todd: Yeah, I think from the very beginning from Cabin Fever, he very quickly kind of got a signature style. You know, also, Quentin Tarantino supported him very early in his career and produced some of his earlier stuff and You can tell why they became good friends is because they both have seemed to have similar sensibilities, you know They’re both very interested in witty fun dialogue Kind of taking things to extremes but also being kind of tongue in cheek about it They love referencing old movies I bet those two get together and geek out like crazy over old horror and action movies and things like that and so like As Quentin Tarantino has sort of a signature style you can recognize right off the bat, I feel like when I pop in an Eli Roth movie, I’m always gonna get that.

And maybe when he kind of goes off the rails a little bit, is when he slips into less comfortable territory, and that’s when things become a little more missed than hit. You know, I know that his most recent action movie, Borderlands, was hilariously panned. 

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. I’m not an expert. I’m just a viewer.

And the movies that I’ve watched of his, I feel like he’s got an eye. I don’t know. His movies are, they’re well shot. They look, they just look good. Yeah. Even those movies like Cabin Fever. There are moments in that movie that are forever imprinted on my mind that I will never forget. When that girl. goes to shave her legs, and she shaves her skin off.

Yes. I, that will go, hopefully, to heaven with me, because I will never forget it. I’ll never forget it. That image of that girl. From Welcome to the Dollhouse. I can’t think of her name. Heather. Heather something. When she’s hanging in Hostel 2. Oh yes. When she’s hanging upside down and weeping and begging and her throat gets cut and bleeds down over that woman in a tub.

I will never forget that. Dementia will not be forgotten. Take that from me! Hahaha!

Todd: I’m glad these are the things. Whatever. That you will cling to as you Whatever 

Craig: it takes! It will As you’re tying, yeah. That. 

Todd: We gotta all have something to hold on to. We literally watched Hostile 2 yesterday. 

Craig: Are you shitting me? That’s hilarious. I am 

Todd: not kidding you. Yeah. It was kinda cool because it reminded me.

I was like, yeah, yeah. This is him and this is what I kind of enjoy about him. He feels young and fresh. His dialogue and the situations, they feel young and fresh. They also feel, like, I mean, the word fresh, I’m picking very specifically because even though these are, you know, how many horror movies are really groundbreaking?

But his always feel different. I think he knows how to write teenagers, he knows how to write Fun witty dialogue. 

Craig: I think he knows how to be tongue in cheek about it. Yeah 

Todd: Yeah, he 

Craig: gets it. Like I get that. This is Cliche I I get that but I don’t know fresh is an interesting word because I did find this. I mean this is a traditional Slasher and that’s one of the things that I like about it.

It’s holiday themed. It’s a masked killer There’s a backstory Ultimately, there’s a motive but there’s just this person going around Killing people. I also love and this is you know, it doesn’t apply to Across the board, but everybody involved, like all the victims are tied to the backstory. Yeah. I like that.

Like it’s, it’s giving me everything. I want from what it’s supposed to be. Now saying that makes it sound like I’m giving this movie a glowing endorsement. The truth of the matter is there were so many characters. I didn’t know what was going on. A lot of the time. A lot of the 

Todd: time. Like, 

Craig: what? Who are you?

Todd: I felt the same way, but I also was secure in the knowledge that it didn’t matter. Like, I never once imagined that I would need to Like, I was so loose in my note taking. Some of the characters, I never knew their names. I never quite figured out how they were related or who was friends with who. But I knew from the beginning.

That this was going to be the kind of movie that, that wouldn’t even matter. And in a way I felt like he was rather restrained with this one in going in such a traditional direction. I expected, especially after the opening parts to get that sort of post scream era, self aware, meta, meta, slightly meta, but more just like self aware, jokey, Kind of thing and yet it really wasn’t 

Craig: I mean no and and I liked that about it Yeah, this movie feels very much like Scream or I know what you did last summer and I say scream right after you say it’s not meta It’s not the these kids aren’t you know talking about horror movies?

Yeah, but it feels like those 90s Slashers. But, 

Todd: well, it feels like the 90s slashers because it’s updated, I mean, cause the, maybe the cinematography or something like that. Sure. I mean. Yes. Yeah. I felt like though, it felt a hundred percent like those 70s slashers. And here’s why. There was no like real escalation of things, like in those older movies, like prom night or whatever, right?

In the weeks leading up to prom night, people are getting killed and dropped off left and right. And if you just. Come into the movie at any point. You will never know how many people were killed before that, because the characters never really seem to care. Like, they’re gonna go through with prom.

They’re gonna go about their lives. Oh shit, my best friend just died. We’re gonna cry about it for a minute. And then the next scene is now they’re arguing over some boy, or they’re necking in the woods. You know what I mean? There’s this sort of like just detachment where the plot just flows improbably.

As everyone’s dying and yet the characters seem to like almost from scene to scene forget that this horrible traumatic thing happened And they should all just be locking themselves in their homes until they have found who has killed these, you know, six people Within the course of the last week Especially because so many of them know that they’re on the list because the killer and and and what I’m trying to say is like That’s how those older movies were Scream and the more modern ones are not quite like that.

They try to make it a little more realistic. And I felt like this movie was a throwback to a time where it was really just about body count and about creative kills. And, and that’s what I appreciated about it. 

Craig: I suppose, I supp You don’t agree, yeah? I just, no, it’s not that I don’t agree. It’s just that I see so many similarities with those 90s ones.

Because I feel like the, the big mystery is who is it? Right. Is it, there is a backstory that that’s why it reminds me so much of like, I know what you did last summer, like everything’s tied together. And I felt like I kind of knew that from the beginning because It’s projected, you know, like the, the killer is taunting them with phone calls and videos and screen, like it’s projected to me that there’s a clear motive.

This isn’t just Jason killing kids cause they, you know, like, 

Todd: yeah, 

Craig: there’s a reason. 

Todd: That’s why it kind of, it feels a little more like those, the slashers, like the burning and the, you know, that era, that like the 1981 era, where there was, there was a clear motive. Like it would always be some guy who got wronged, who came back, you know, the guy in the mine, who was left down there and who had to like eat somebody or whatever and was traumatized by it.

And that 

Craig: was one of Roth’s clear inspirations for this movie. He said that, he said that he wanted to do exactly what. I’m saying, idiotically, he wanted to do a slasher like that. He was inspired by Friday the 13th. He was inspired by My Bloody Valentine. Like the final scene of the movie is virtually identical to the final scene of My Bloody Valentine.

Am I right? 

Todd: Yeah, you’re right. It virtually is. It just takes place in a different location. 

Craig: We should set up what the movie’s about, which is difficult to do. 

Todd: There’s so much stuff. 

Craig: It starts out The first thing that I wrote down is, I love the TriStar Pegasus. Yeah, I haven’t seen that in a while. Back in the late 80s and 90s, when I saw the TriStar Pegasus, I’m like, This is going to be a good movie.

You’ve said that before.

I love 

Todd: it. So you’re going to carry that with you into dementia as well, aren’t you? I hope 

Craig: so. And they’re in Plymouth, Massachusetts. This is Thanksgiving and Patrick Dempsey. God, I also, I have no idea what his name is. He’s the sheriff, but it’s Patrick Dempsey. McDreamy goes to Gina Gershon’s.

Thanksgiving. I have no idea what’s happening, but I’m frantically writing notes like, Patrick Tipsy? Gina Gershon? 

Clip: What 

Craig: is happening? Oh god, it was very exciting. And they’re at dinner, and then it’s Black Friday at this store. And some teenagers who are eventually going to be the people that we are going to follow for a while.

Somehow get in there early because Jess, the main girl, her dad owns the store. Is that right? 

Todd: Yep. Yep. 

Craig: So they get in there early and they’re kind of dicks about it and like taunt the people outside. And the people outside turn into a rage fueled mob and break into the store and people are slaughtered.

I’m surprised that this didn’t happen more often in real life because that shit used to be crazy. I’ve said it before. I’ll say it again. The pandemic was terrible, but if anything good came out of it, it killed Black Friday. I am so happy about that. Thank God for that. 

Todd: Yeah, you know, it was funny because, uh, obviously shades of that movie Black Friday that we saw.

Yes. Shades of Krampus. Krampus! The beginning of Krampus, when they taught, when This is where I thought, okay, well, the movie’s going for this goofy social commentary. No, it really wasn’t. This is just an event, and there’s a lot of silliness happening. It’s the 

Craig: inciting incident. Mm hmm. It’s Jason Voorhees drowning.

It’s the kid in the burning getting blown up in the, you know, outhouse or whatever. I don’t even remember, but people die. Remember friends later that it’s important that Gina Gershon gets trampled to death horribly in this scene. And it’s disgusting. And it’s, it’s very gory. Like everything about this movie is a hundred percent competent.

I want to praise it on that level. I want to praise it overall, but like it’s gory. The end. Dark and shocking. Yeah, I think in some respects, but when these things happened, like when Gina Gershon, I think her throat or her head or something gets stomped and then she’s just laying there very bloody. It’s very graphic and I was shocked, but I was glad to be shocked.

I was like, Oh yeah, I didn’t know. I, Oh, like here we are in the first five minutes. 

Todd: A shopping cart whacks her right in the head and she kind of gets jammed between two of them. It’s horrible. She gets killed and there was a guy there who was manning the door who they break through the door. It’s kind of funny where he watches the glass slowly break.

It’s almost like that scene from Jurassic Park, the sequel, right? Where the glass slowly starts breaking. Yeah, so it’s got this these funny moments, but then these horrible things happen and it’s all about a waffle irons They keep referring to this incident because every everybody gets affected by this incident Obviously this girl and her family are affected her father has to go on a big tour of goodwill After this and it’s got a lot of damage to repair to the store’s reputation For even being open and allowing that to happen one of the security guards just took off Turntail and ran in the very beginning, but then there are these kids, even though they didn’t really, they kind of seem to have almost incited the mob, or at least they have some guilt from that, or they’re being blamed for that because they got in early, and how did that happen, and why did that happen, and, and so there was just kind of all these reasons for all these different people to either be angry about what happened, or for other people to be angry at them.

So, you’ve got a lot of possibilities as to who the killer could be right away when people who were involved in this incident suddenly start getting picked off. 

Craig: As they do. Yeah. And that’s, that’s the impetus. It, it almost, God, I’m so dumb, I guess. It took me a second to realize that the people who were getting killed were all people who were directly involved in this.

Luckily for dummies like me, The movie eventually tells us that like, like when people start looking into it, they start to figure out, Oh yeah, all these people are connected. Me, big dummy, trying to take a bunch of notes, trying to write down all these people’s names. And there’s like 500 characters in this movie and some of them look just alike.

There were two guys. Who looked exactly the same and I couldn’t figure that one of them was Bobby, but there was another guy, Evan or something. I don’t know that they were identical to me, even though I’m sure if you put them side by side, they probably are easily distinguishable. I couldn’t figure it out.

It was so hard for me to keep track of who was who. And because there were so many people, it took me a while to figure out that Jess. I have early in my notes, Jess is the main girl, like probably the final girl. But then there are so many people that come in and out. I just kind of found it hard to follow.

Ultimately it doesn’t really matter. There’s just this guy and he’s dressed as a pilgrim and he’s wearing a John Carver mask. 

Todd: So funny. 

Craig: Now, apparently John Carver is an actual historical figure whom I know nothing about. Do you know anything about this? 

Todd: I should have looked up John Carver. I’m frantically looking him up right now.

Craig: No. Who cares? Nobody cares. He’s a pilgrim. He was the governor. 

Todd: He was a Mayflower passenger. And a New World colonist. He was the first governor of Plymouth County. He was in office from 1620 to 1621. So, yeah, that’s fascinating. 

Craig: Anyway, he’s a pilgrim and he’s killing people in pretty creative ways. The first person I think that he can, and when I say a pilgrim, he’s dressed like a pilgrim, but he’s also wearing one of those plastic Halloween masks that don’t even really exist anymore.

No. Those really thin plastic mold masks that would, like, cut your face because they were razor sharp. And it just secured, secured around your face with just a little piece of elastic. Did you say fifties? I wore those masks, Todd. Did you not? 

Todd: I said, I said from about the 50s through the 80s is when I think that was happening because those were always the masks that were sold with the Outfit that was nothing more than like a printed like a poncho.

Yeah So hot and sweaty, but man, I guess it just got the job done when you were, when you were in a pinch. Oh man, yeah, whatever. So he’s, 

Craig: yeah, so he’s in one of those messes, and he kills a bunch of people. The, the first one he kills this lady who works in a restaurant, I think? Yeah, she 

Todd: was the lady who, she got the most screen time, it seems like, during the shouting crowd scenes, because she was, uh, she was so angry, and, you know, Pulling waffle irons out of people’s hands and stuff like that.

Craig: Oh, right, right. Yep. Yep. I remember that he Dunks her in water and it seems like that shot that we’ve seen a million times where somebody dunks somebody in Hot oil or hot water, but it’s not even that. It’s just regular water. And then he pulls her out and he opens the freezer door and he sticks her face to it and it freezes to the door like that would happen to the tool.

Todd: It’s so dumb. 

Craig: I don’t know, but I thought that was a really clever. I actually thought that that. That may have been my favorite kill and there are other good kills that you may have to recount because this is where things get fuzzy for me, the whole middle of the movie. I was just really kind of.

Confused. I didn’t know what was happening. 

Todd: Yeah, well, well, the way she finally gets it, ’cause she manages to peel her face away and half of the skin comes with it. But she runs outside and dives into a , dives into a dumpster, just as the killer is driving a truck into the dumpster and somehow. That man just to bisect her so that her legs fall off and it’s really gross but really creative and then the killer sticks the legs over the star in the right, it’s called the right mart or whatever like that and there’s like a star in the logo and whatever way up high and uh, so he’s kind of marked the store 

Craig: and he sends, he sends, I guess, pictures To Jess and the other teenagers of a table set for dinner and I know that at least that, the top half of her torso is there.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I don’t remember at what point, like, this person is obviously setting this table with the victims, and then taunting the other victims. 

Todd: That was sort of the throwback, you know, element. Updated to modern times. This, the, the killer has an Instagram account, basically. That he’s obscured through several cell phones and some kind of technology.

So they can’t track him down, but he is able to post taunting photos. And he’s got the Thanksgiving table set. And then later on, they notice that there are place names set at each spot. And then we, every now and then, not often enough, I thought, because like I said, in those earlier movies, after another person dies, you’ll get this nice closeup from the killer’s point of view as he crosses another person off of his list or scratches someone’s face out of the photo or whatnot.

But yeah, every now and then we get to see him setting up a torso next to the table or putting someone’s head on a plate next to their own name plate and things like that. 

Craig: Yeah. And it’s, it’s classic slasher. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a little bit giallo. I would say, you know, A lot of focus on these black gloves.

You know, it’s all a mystery of Who is it? It, it, it has to be somebody who’s involved, right? Yeah, so it has to be. And there’s some red herrings. There are a million red herrings. Everybody’s a red herring. I feel like we’re basically following Jess. So, you know, it can’t be her, but there are boys all around her.

There’s her new boyfriend who nobody really likes, but her, but they kind of tolerate him. There’s her old boyfriend who was involved in filmed the whole thing, but he was. baseball player and he got injured and like after this happened, he just disappeared and they don’t know where he is. And again, all red herrings, basically.

Right. But meanwhile, you’ve got this masked, gloved person. And just before, I turned it off as I was answering your call. But I was watching an interview with Eli Roth. And he said that he really wanted it to remain a mystery who the killer was. So he had All of the actors and then also various like stunt people or whatever in that costume.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: In different scenes. So anybody who you thought that it might have been, might have been in that costume at some point. That, that’s, that’s Easy, you know, but it’s kind 

Todd: of cheating, but okay, 

Craig: I like it. 

Todd: Well, it also had me thinking at one point that maybe there were two. 

Craig: I wondered or more. I wondered that too.

Like it could be too. It could be more. I had no idea what was going on because and this is smart too. They lots of movies have done it since scream, but Michael Myers and Jason Voorhees. Were masked killers, but it’s not like there were a bunch of them running around and you didn’t know which one was the Right, you know ever since scream with the ghost face mask everybody and There are people lots of people running around in these masks.

Yeah, so You don’t know 

Todd: who one of those the killer 

Craig: is. And at one point, one of the most shocking parts to me was a part that’s in the trailer, but they changed it. There’s a part where for some, you know, the kids already know there’s a killer. They’re looking out for them, but for some reason they’re in the parade.

And they’re all dressed as pilgrims too, and they’re looking out, but there are tons of people dressed as the pilgrim, and that’s the people that they’re looking at. There also has, happens to be a nightmarish clown. Yeah, what was that? Walking around in the parade. And I was like, what? I don’t think this guy understood the essential.

This is like, like cool costume, bro. But this is like a Thanksgiving day parade. I don’t think you get it. And then that clown. Takes an axe and chops somebody’s head off. Yeah. The, the turkey, like, like a guy dressed as a turkey. Yeah. And that moment is in the original trailer, but it’s the guy in the pilgrim mask.

But that, that shocked me so much. I was like, what is happening? Yeah. 

Todd: Well, that, that happens later. Other people die. The store security guy who would run off. Comes home and I think after the woman is found dead, he decides he needs to get out of Dodge with his cat. He has this cute little cat and he’s putting his things together and of course something’s missing and so he’s looking for it.

Senses someone’s in the house and he’s right. This guy comes out from, I think, under the table and stabs him with one of those electric carvers, which was, uh 

Craig: Oh, that was, that, that scene was really funny because like he heard somebody in the house and so like he was walking around and he said something like,

But then he gets chopped up with an electric carver and it’s very gruesome. The, the scene is also funny because for part of it, he’s talking. to his cat. Yes. And he asks the cat, he’s like, where is it buddy? And the cat like does a take to the side. And it turns out that that’s not even really where the person is.

But my favorite bit of trivia that I read about this was that Eli Roth said that the cat actor was so good. Like that cat would just do anything that it was told to do. It was apparently the cat that was in The Pet Sematary remake. And I remember reading about that movie and reading that the trainer talked about how amazing that cat was.

But I also, and I like cats and I know you like cats too. 

Todd: I love cats. 

Craig: What was it? I lost what I was going to say. 

Todd: He, he, he nicknamed the cat Leonardo DiCaprio. 

Craig: Yes. Yes. Yes. That’s hilarious. What I was going to say was he also wanted to answer the question, what happens to the pet? And honestly, that is a question that I have asked myself when I watch these movies.

You guys are so weird. 

Todd: I have never once asked that question. 

Craig: What’s going to happen? Todd, you had cats. If somebody had come and slaughtered you, I mean, your cats would have eaten you, but then what happens after that? 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: Probably go 

Todd: take a nap for a while is what they do. Oh 

Craig: God. That would be, that would be my first concern.

My first concern. I don’t have kids. I get it. You have an actual human kid. No, 

Todd: I hear you. So, so the killer as he’s walking out pauses, turns around, looks back at the cat before he puts some food in his bowl so the cat could eat as he’s walking out the door. I thought that was hilarious. Thank you. 

Craig: Thank you for making that point.

Todd: Yeah, it was cute. Oh god. 

Craig: Yeah, I, I, I thought that was funny. There are a lot of things in the movie I think are funny, and I think that are Intended to be funny. Yeah. Yeah, it’s just at some point. I was done. Okay, all right, let’s get to it. Let’s get to it. Who’s the killer? 

Todd: Honestly, 

Craig: things get muddy for me here because there are still so many of them.

There are people that we haven’t even talked about. And 

Todd: they’re all interacting with each other in all kinds of ways. Like Ryan and Bobby. So Bobby’s come back into town and that seems mysterious. And Ryan and Bobby have kind of a jealousy thing because Ryan is now dating Jessica. I don’t know.

Somebody’s father tries to pull her out and I Then they’re getting more of these, these photos, and they’re involving the sheriff again, and the sheriff’s got an assistant. Well, assistant. He’s another deputy or whatever, you know. There’s Stube, we haven’t even talked about him, he’s like the token black guy.

There’s Scott, who is Ryan’s Scooba, yeah. Yeah, roommate who kind of comes in and then kind of leaves for a while and then pops back in every now and then. At one point I thought it was him, because I was like, he’s gonna be somebody we haven’t seen much, you know? And that guy might have a reason, and then they go back and they review the tape.

There’s this whole deal where They want to get back to that night and figure out if anybody knows anything from that, that night a year ago that they’re not saying. And I’m also sitting here thinking, why is this really that important? Like, how are you going to get a clue? Everybody knows what, already knows what happened at that event.

You know, what new clue are you going to get? After the event, nobody went to that event knowing all that shit was gonna go down. So it’s not like anybody was preparing anything, you know? But they review tapes, Jess Jess kind of just suddenly says, Well, you know what? I’ve known all this time that my father had backups of those of that.

And I just never brought it up to anybody or brought it up to the police, but I’m gonna go in and and look at them. And she gets some stills and it it turns out that Somebody knew somebody and somebody I mean it’s like I was all I was also sitting here going like I think all this is pretty flimsy 

Craig: Yeah, ultimately nothing.

It doesn’t matter 

Todd: busy work for the move It’s just stuff for them to do in between killings Honestly, 

Craig: right the the person the person who is doing this the person who has a vendetta We’re not learning anything new. No, we’re not. The reason that this person is angry is because they got in there early and flaunted it and caused the riot.

Yeah. We know that from the first scene. There’s no question. We don’t learn anything new. No. But it is a lot of investigation. There are moments from this movie that I thought were just hilarious. It is. Out of context, I have no idea when this happens. I feel like it happens on TV. Like they’re interviewing some kid, this kid named Chad, and he says, and that’s why I won’t be celebrating Thanksgiving this year or any year.

And then he pulls up the corner of the bottom corner of his shirt to wipe a tear from his eyes, just to show like his rock hard abs. 

Todd: While the two girls sit next to him are like, Oh Chad, it’s okay.

Craig: I think I get Eli Roth’s sense of humor. Yeah. I think he has kind of a dark, twisted sense of humor that I get. He does. 

Todd: And 

Craig: there’s so many, 

Todd: there’s so many moments like that in this movie, but they’re also like, they just come and they go and they’re, it’s just so unlike his other ones where it seems like there’s a joke like that.

All the time, you know, going on. Whereas in this one, they still happen, but it’s a much more restrained to the point where it doesn’t make the movie feel like a comedy, like, like his other movies kind of do, I mean, even hostile to a certain extent, there are moments where it just kind of just becomes comedy.

And this movie never really felt that way, which is. Again, why I thought it was such a great homage to those older movies while still giving him a little bit of his own particular style and updating it a little bit. 

Craig: Some of the big things, like things from the trailer, like, I don’t remember how it happens, like the killer just gets people when he needs people.

Yeah. At some point I feel like he gets a bunch of them. At the school. And they’re all tied up around, and maybe at some point they’re all tied up around the table or whatever. That’s at the end, 

Todd: yeah. Toward the end 

Craig: the stepmom he gets the stepmom at some point. Oh god. She wakes up on a table like surrounded by 

Todd: potatoes and carrots and shit

Craig: And then and then she she wakes up and she realizes that he’s there so she still pretends to be asleep while he Bastes her, like he like, brushes her with butter, and we know that she’s awake and conscious while he’s painting butter on her face. 

Todd: Sprinkling rock salt on it. 

Craig: Oh yeah. Oh, he seasons her. He sticks like, yeah, like rosemary between her toes.

It’s, it’s great. Like, it’s great. I feel like this is even like a throwback to like, Chainsaw Massacre, you know, like this, this guy, he’s sick, he’s twisted. And then there’s a whole scene where she wakes up and she runs away and it’s very tense and she’s running around and she finds other bodies and whatnot, blah, but like, it’s great.

It’s, it’s fairly typical. It feels like something right out of, I know what you did last summer, that kind of chase, but eventually he gets her and he puts her in the oven. Where does this oven exist? Oh, I know, right? It’s like the, I guess it must be the biggest pizza oven in the world because she, her whole body fits in there.

And he turns it on and she starts to freak out cause like the burners start to glow. But then he opens the oven door and reaches in and stabs her with something and then closes the door again. And it’s one of those turkey thermometers.

Todd: Oh, so funny. So funny. 

Craig: And then she cooks and then when she’s cooked it pops. Oh 

Todd: my God. Oh. 

Craig: That’s funny, that’s funny. If you’re gonna make a Thanksgiving horror movie and call it Thanksgiving, you gotta do it. And then later, and then later he serves the mom trussed up like a turkey. 

Todd: Legs in the air. Fold it over.

Apparently, apparently there was a scene on the blu ray that didn’t make it where Instead of wearing her skirt there or whatever her lower half of her body was naked and stuffing was stuffed between her legs Oh my god, that’s disgusting But more in keeping actually with the trailer the fake trailer that this was based on even more disgusting stuff happens in that Do you remember that?

Clip: Yeeeah. That’s the very last 

Craig: image. Yes. I wasn’t sure what was going on, but now that you said it, okay, yeah, gross, gross. 

Todd: He doesn’t go that far. Yeah. But yeah, you’re right. It’s like Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I was getting totally those vibes as everyone is tied up around this table screaming as this woman is put down there and he casually walks around it and from behind his mask And with like a voice changer, is telling them all, basically taunting them and telling them why he’s doing what he’s doing.

Clip: Now, we’re all going to go around the table and say what we’re thankful for. You’re on live, so choose your words wisely. 

Todd: And then he completely tenderizes one of the boys head with a meat tenderizer. 

Craig: Holy shit! That was brutal. That was It was brutal and not unexpected because as soon as it started to happen, I knew it was going to happen, but it was so brutal.

Like he had taken the time to tie them all up around the table. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Only for as soon as they all woke up to Smash one guy’s head down on the table and just beat the shit, like with a mallet, just destroy his head. It was violent. It was brutal. The movie is, the movie is violent and brutal and bloody. And I, you know, that’s not, gore is not my thing, but when it’s well done, it’s well done.

And I think that it’s really well done here. And somehow I can’t explain it. But there is sometimes when gore is done in a spirit of fun that I can get behind it. 

Todd: Yeah, I know what you mean. 

Craig: That’s what this seems like. It seems like it’s in a spirit of fun. It doesn’t seem like I’m just trying to traumatize you.

Todd: That’s, that’s how those old movies kind of were too, you know? And back then the effects weren’t even that great, so it was even more fun. Where are we going with this? I guess, you know, he’s got them all around the table. The, they start to peel away and run off, uh, there’s some chasing going on, all this is muddied in my head too, like, I really didn’t know who was going where and what was happening, because then at some point, they’re far away from this house, and Jessica, Jess suddenly stumbles upon one of the sheriff’s cars with the, uh, trunk open and his deputy is laying next to it.

And I was like, what happened here? And why did she just stumble on this? And so then, like an idiot, she wanders into the nearest building and has another encounter that she barely gets away from with this guy. I don’t remember how I have no 

Craig: idea. I have no idea what is happening. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: There is that car, there’s that car wreck with the police.

I thought that was Patrick Dempsey who was on the road. Yeah, I did too at first. 

Todd: No, it was the other guy. Okay, so, okay, 

Craig: all right, okay. Because I was so confused because then he shows up later and he doesn’t have road rash. Or does he? I don’t know. Is 

Todd: this? It’s in this building when they’re doing the chase that her friend is also there and I don’t know why her friend was there No, no, no, no 

Craig: her one of her friends is there She follows she she takes the gun off the cop that she finds in the road And then she goes in this house and she sees the guy the masked guy She follows him And he takes off the mask and it’s one of her friends, Bobby, I don’t know, one of the curly haired ones that looks just like one of the other ones.

I don’t know. But she’s like, Oh shit, it’s Bobby. But then Patrick Dempsey shows up and she’s like, Patrick Dempsey, it’s Bobby. And he’s like, okay, go outside. I’ll take care of it. And she goes outside and closes the door. And immediately I was like, no, F you, Patrick Dempsey. This is shady as hell. But he goes inside and she just hears three gunshots.

Todd: And 

Craig: he comes back out and he’s like, Oh yeah, it was Bobby. I think I shot him, but he ran away. 

Todd: And now you know, okay, now we know what’s going down. 

Craig: I felt like it was a little clumsy, and I also felt like the reveal, she’s just a big dum dum up until now, but then she’s sitting, like everything’s, I don’t know, Patrick Dempsey comes in and like, everything’s fine, I don’t know, everything’s fine, I need to go away for a second so you can have a revelation, I’ll be right back.

Right. She’s just sitting there, and she looks at her pants, she’s picking burrs. And then she just flashes back to a million things and I guess it’s when he comes back in and she sees that he also has burrs on his pants and shoes. Yeah. She flashes back to a million things. And the thing that’s, uh, She flashes back to are him saying like I’ve needed you all along I never could have done it without you and I guess we’re to believe that that’s true because he finally does come back and She’s a big dum dum and can’t just play it cool and totally Blows her cover and he’s like, oh, I guess, you know, now I have to kill you.

Todd: Yeah I don’t know what he needed her for i’m not really sure what she did that helped him in any way he could have just I guess 

Craig: like she was just his liaison and like Letting him know where people were gonna be 

Todd: That was clumsy. I don’t know. I called it by the way. I called it halfway through the movie I was like, it’s got to be him.

Craig: I didn’t. And the, the motive is that he was f ing Gina Gershon and he was in love with her, even though she was married to the Rite Aid store owner or something. I don’t know, but she was pregnant and, and she got killed in that. Black Friday disaster, and that’s why he’s after everybody. All right, fine. 

Todd: I mean, that was the first scene in the movie, really, was him coming up to the door and and and her opening it, and I was like, Oh, they had a look, you know, they had a moment.

And so when I was going back, especially when they pointed out, Oh, well, maybe somebody’s mad that that guy You know got trampled by the door. I thought well who else got killed there? Well, it was that that woman and I thought oh, yeah It’s I mean, it’s not her husband because he’s barely been around so it must have been be this guy was in love with her Maybe that’s what it was.

I did not I 

Craig: was just like I was like Patrick Dempsey Gina Grisha

I was Yeah, I was just shocked that they were both in it. They were even in it. My question to you, my question to you is, why is it that when he realizes that she has figured it out, why does he turn into Robert De Niro? What do you mean? Todd, didn’t his accent change? Entirely Change, I mean, I’m surely not making this up like I feel like he talked he talked in a certain way throughout the whole movie and then as soon as As soon as she figured out he’s like You talking to me?

You talking to me?

Todd: He had a bit of that accent through the whole movie though, maybe it was just a little more intensified at that point I thought it was interesting because the whole accent was not something I normally hear out of his mouth But I was reading through the trivia and apparently that’s his actual way, his original Eastern, you know, New England accent that he had to suppress when he got started in acting and part of why he was excited to Do the movie was that he could just kind of let it go So maybe yeah, maybe he got very into that scene and decided to really let it go 

Craig: I don’t know.

Shout out to Patrick Dempsey. I really like Patrick Dempsey. I’ve liked him for a long long long time 

Todd: Ever since Can’t Buy Me Love, is that what you’re gonna say? Uh huh. 

Craig: Can’t Buy Me Love, that movie where he was like a gigolo pizza boy, likes that movie. 

Todd: He looks the same. Good guy. That guy doesn’t age.

Craig: Yeah, 

Todd: it’s kind of amazing handsome 

Craig: handsome guy. Good for you. Patrick Dempsey and good for you for maintaining a career And you know, he’s he’s popping up in horror stuff. You know, he was one in one of those scream movies Recently. Anyway, great. Whatever. He’s the killer. So then he chases her around and other stuff happens and they’re filling up a giant inflatable turkey That he doesn’t notice and some of them are running away.

I don’t even remember who’s with her at this point. Like, I feel like Scuba and Gabby, and I don’t even know who these people are, but some of the people, some of the people who are left are with her and are helping her get away and they’re running away. And she loads a musket, which she had shown us that she could do earlier in the movie.

Bye. She looks at, and McDreamy is chasing her. But he, you know, he’s standing in front of this giant turkey that’s inflating behind him. He says, 

Clip: sorry, Jessica. This year there will be no leftovers.

Craig: Oh man. Oh, gosh, and then it looks, it looks like she’s going to shoot him, but she’s not. And she even indicates that to him, like, ha ha, dummy, I’m not going to shoot you. I’m going to shoot this giant inflatable turkey behind you that we’ve been filling with like, I don’t know, propane? Some kind of 

Todd: flammable gas.

Craig: And she shoots it, it explodes, and it explodes him. Something that was funny to me about the ending of the movie is he Was he obsessed with her? Because he keeps saying her name and so weird. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: When the explosion happened, I had earbuds in. I don’t know how you were watching it, but I swear to God, I heard him scream, 

Clip: Jessica!

Craig: He did. What? 

Todd: Why is he so obsessed with her? There’s kind of a weird ending, like a tag on to this, that reminded me of The Guest a little bit. I mean, so much like The Guest, they’re sitting by the ambulance, and all the first responders are coming out, and they’re clearing the area, and one of them comes up and says, You know, we searched the whole place, there’s no way anybody could have survived in there, but everything was burnt to ash.

But then, implied in that is that they never could find his body, right? They just assume it was all burned up. And then she thinks, she kind of in her head, thinks she sees a guy walking out. No, she does see a guy! Well, she sees a guy, but she kind of in her head imagines it might be him. And maybe it is supposed to be him, because they’re going to do a sequel.

Maybe 

Craig: it isn’t, but I mentioned that at the beginning when we started talking. I said the end is almost exactly the same as My Bloody Valentine. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: I think that happens at the end of My Bloody Valentine, too. He just runs, skipping down the, down the mine. No, we see somebody come like everything’s over everything’s okay, but we see somebody coming out of the mine Who is in a mask, you know, like you don’t know who’s behind that.

Todd: Oh, you’re talking about the second one About the remake. I’m talking about the first one. Remember where he literally is skipping away down the mine going, Happy Valentine’s Day! Woo wee! But they can’t get to him because half of the mines caved in. I don’t remember 

Craig: that. I don’t know. Like, overall, I Watch it.

Hello, friends, horror lovers. You’re looking for something to watch on Thanksgiving with your significant other, or your adolescent teenager kid, or your friends who love horror movies. And you’re in the Thanksgiving spirit. Yep. Watch it. Watch it. Is it amazing? No. It’s not amazing, but it’s really not bad.

It’s not bad. I don’t know that I’ll ever feel the need to watch it again. This isn’t gonna be, for me, something that like, oh shit, like yeah. I’m gonna watch this every Thanksgiving from now on. But I do think that Roth accomplished what he was going for. I think he was going for an old school slasher.

Yeah. I think, like us, he’s like, Let’s let’s make this a holiday movie. Why not and it is I mean it is thanksgiving 

Todd: Yeah 

Craig: through and through and I love that about it And that’s why I definitely say yeah, check it out. Check it out. I don’t want to set the bar too high I I don’t want you to go in and To it thinking that it’s gonna be amazing because I personally don’t think it’s amazing, but I did enjoy it.

Todd: I mean, I literally enjoyed it as much as I enjoy watching those older slasher movies, and that says something. I mean, as far as I’m concerned, you just throw it on the pile. 

Craig: That’s fair. 

Todd: You know, I’m not gonna go watch, re watch any of those either. But I have fond memories from them, and I really enjoyed watching them.

Maybe I’ll go back and watch like, The Burning or, Final exam or something one more time pieces or something like that, but generally no You know, but I loved them. I loved them in the moment They delivered exactly what I was looking for and part of what I enjoyed about it was its formula It’s sort of predictability and it’s in predictability and the fact that It, there was like a mystery to it, you know, you’re, you’re guessing.

Sure. And that’s more fun. Like, you know, those slasher films are in a bit of a different category than, like you said earlier, like the Friday the 13th and the, the Freddy ones. You know, there’s no mystery involved in those movies. And that, that’s fun. Style of slasher movie where it’s just some supernatural killer.

We know who he is. Oh, it’s Michael Myers, right? Mm hmm These always had the the big whodunit aspect to it and all the red herrings and I really enjoyed that part of it You know, so yeah, no and plus with the really shocking really gory brutal kills Gosh that scene with the girl on the frickin table saw Jesus.

Oh my god Oh 

Craig: Right after she had been stabbed in the ears with corncob holders 

Todd: He had a lot of fun trying to come up with these unique kills and fun That’s another thing that those horror movies did, you know, that’s why you watch the sleepaway camp movies What weird way are people gonna be murdered in and so yeah, I enjoyed it.

I thought it was fun And like you said, Perfectly fine. Nothing super outstanding about it, but very solid. And I’m glad I watched it. I had a good time. 

Craig: Me too. Me too. I, I just wanted to say this, you know, this is our Thanksgiving episode. And in the spirit of Thanksgiving, I want to thank a lot of people. I want to thank everybody who listens.

all the time regardless of where you find us. I want to thank the patrons who support us in a different way and who we get to have some really cool interactions with. And Todd, I want to thank you for doing all the work. And just for all of you, and Todd, you especially, thank you for being somebody that I can just talk to and be with and, and trust.

And this, this to me, all of this, the, the podcast, the Patreon stuff, it’s a wonderful escape to A happy place. So, thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you, all of you. 

Todd: I echo with that, Craig. And I want to thank you, too, for being a friend. Da da da da, travel down the road and back again. I also, but seriously, though, no, really, this is something I look forward to.

Every week is sitting down and chatting with you and, you know, we know where we stand and we, we’re good buddies in that way and you’re somebody I can always chat with and confide in and, and also just goof on, on great horror movies. We have a really good time with that. Thank God. And this, yeah, right? We need these escapes sometimes.

And, uh, I also want to thank, obviously, just like you, our listeners out there who have been with us through thick and thin, and who have stuck with us all these years, and who take the time to reach out and chat with us. We love our interactions with you. Thank you so much for making us a part of your entertainment, your day.

There’s a lot of stuff you can do with your time, and the fact that you’re interested in hearing us gab back and forth is very humbling, and Just, thank you for that. Thank you for giving us a reason to keep doing it. Also, I really want to thank the people who have, um, joined us on our podcast this year.

You know, we’ve had a few more guests on than we normally had before, and those have turned out to be really wonderful experiences. But I want to thank you guys as well for taking the time to come on and share your love of horror with us in the audience as well. There will be more of that to come. Well, thank you guys again.

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend who would be just as interested. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone out there. Happy Thanksgiving. We are two guys in a [email protected], patreon.com/chainsaw podcast. Find us in those places. Just let us know what you’re thankful for this year.

And, uh, we have Christmas right around the corner. So if you have ideas for Christmas movies, we are going to get started right away. So, uh, send us those. Uh, we still haven’t decided exactly what we’re going to do. We have a few ideas, but it’s not set in stone yet. So please reach out to us and might as well throw in New Year’s as well.

Until next time, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Our tribute episode to the late, great Tony Todd – actor extraordinaire, and an absolute gem every time he pops up in a horror movie. We covered Candyman already, so instead we’re hitting up the very first horror film to be graced with his deep voice, striking looks and undeniable charisma – the 1990 Tom Savini-directed remake of Romero’s Night of the Living Dead.

Night of the Living Dead (1990)

Episode 416, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Craig. Tony Todd died recently. 

Craig: I know. Isn’t that such a bummer and like it comes out of nowhere like what right he wasn’t even that old What do you I think he he was 69,70? 

Todd: Yeah, I don’t know what too old is nowadays I think we’ve we’ve like talked about people who are about to turn 90 and we’ve been like, oh they were so young Yeah, I know.

I realize standards have changed but Yeah, 69 still feels a little too young, because my parents are still alive and they’re older than that, so that’s, that’s my judgment, frame of reference, I suppose. I think I was surprised he was even that old, because he, the man hasn’t aged, to look at him, he just has always been this striking, good looking guy, he’s been, he was working up to the very end, and he’s just been in everything, like his guy’s been all over the place.

Yeah. And, uh, I just expected to keep seeing him at places. So, uh, it really sucks. 

Craig: Yeah, yeah, it’s a bummer. Obviously, I think his most well known role is Candyman, of course. But he has been in a bazillion things. Not just in film, but also on stage and in television, voice acting, video games. God, 

Todd: that voice.

The 

Craig: voice! 

Todd: Yeah, Jesus, Jesus, that voice. I mean, it’s so recognizable to, you know, I mean, he’s got that it’s like James Earl Jones with an edge, 

Craig: you know, it’s a silky bass voice. Yeah, it’s just a gift. And he also has a, Very distinct look when I heard that he passed away. Immediately I thought, we have to do something, like, but we’ve already done Candyman.

Like, that would, that would be the obvious thing to do. Of 

Todd: course, yeah. 

Craig: But I remembered that he had starred in The 1990 remake of Night of the Living Dead. 

Clip: Hmm. 

Craig: And what I remembered about that movie was that I liked it. So, I thought, let’s, let’s look at it. I didn’t realize that this was his first horror role.

I only learned that yesterday. 

Todd: Yeah, that surprised me too. I was excited that you brought it up, because I have, this has been on my list for ages, like for decades, and I never did sit down and watch it, so I was really looking forward to seeing this remake. I grew up watching the, I mean, we did a whole episode in the original that was almost two hours long, I think.

I think we, I don’t remember why we did it or when we did it, I think it was on occasion of something. Maybe it was George Romero’s death, I don’t know. I don’t remember. Or maybe we’re just in the mood to do Night of the Living Dead. But, uh, in any case, we talked extensively about that movie. Because there’s a lot to talk about when it comes to the original.

And I grew up watching it. All the time. I mean, it was, because it was in the public domain, it was everywhere. You could catch it on TV, late at night, on On any given channel, at least once a month, probably. Especially around Halloween time, they’d ramp that up. You could go to the dollar store, you know, where they had VHS tapes.

It was usually one of the ten that they had to offer there. I was obsessed with the movie, I watched it a lot. I think it was, it was one of my very first experiences with a scene that was so shocking, that it really disturbed me for days. And that is, you know, towards the end. Oh, by the way, spoiler alert, if you haven’t seen Night of the Living Dead, we’re gonna be talking about Night Both of them.

But if you haven’t, you might, you’re probably coming at this podcast from a different angle than most. But, but what I’m saying is, um, that scene at the very end of the original where the girl ends up coming back to life and killing her parents. Yeah. That was, as a kid, that was utterly shocking to me. And so this movie came out of that fact that the original was immediately slipped into public domain.

I mean, Romero had issues, I think, with his distributors from the start. And then because of the stupid copyright laws of the time that said that in order for your film to be copyrighted, there has to be a literal copyright notice, or it doesn’t count. Which is kind of insane. When they did an update of the title screen, I believe it was, someone neglected to put the copyright notice in.

And so, uh, years later, this is kind of his attempt to make back some money on a movie that was wildly popular and made a lot of money for somebody, but not Romero and his investors. 

Craig: Right, and he said that somebody was going to remake it. So, like he wanted me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody’s gonna remake it.

And, and he tried to involve people who were involved in the original production so that they would get a little bit, you know, like a little piece of it or whatever. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: It’s fascinating to me. The whole movie is fascinating to me. Obviously, I know, There are some behind the scenes. That are even our patrons don’t know.

Like we’re not giving them access to our texts or anything, but I texted you while I was watching this. And I was like, we made the right choice. Tony Todd is amazing in this. I think he’s so fantastic. He’s great. Obviously we are going to compare it. To the original and I’m so surprised honestly, I had seen this movie before but I didn’t remember much about it and I certainly hadn’t like researched it and and so Reading things about it.

I was surprised that it was kind of Panned when it came out. There was like a mediocre response to it. Yeah. That kind of surprises me, Todd, because I think that this is a great remake. It pays tribute to the original and does a lot of things that the original does, but it also does some new things. Like it’s, it’s still its own thing.

I was shocked to see, you know, your guy, Roger Ebert. He didn’t like it. No. 

Todd: He 

Craig: didn’t. He said, what was the point? 

Todd: Yeah. I totally disagree. I don’t disagree with you. I think this movie is just fine. It is fine. It has some great acting in it. It actually has some not so good acting in it as well. The effects, I was kind of surprised at how little gore there was.

I mean, there was gore, there was some shocking things in there, but I expected to see a lot more with Tom Savini in control. Right, b Tom Savini, I guess, was Asked by Romero to come in and and yeah, you read what I read, right? Like he basically was they all decided that well in order to pay proper homage to the original We’re not gonna make it a big splatter fest because the original Wasn’t 

Craig: but that’s not entirely true either because They filmed a lot more gory stuff that they ended up having to cut for rating.

Because when it went through the MPAA the first time, it was, got rated X. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Because of those gory scenes and they had to cut that down. Yeah, what do you believe? I don’t know, 

Clip: actually. 

Craig: Right. Right, actually the, the gory stuff is one of the scenes. Several things that makes it different and that has to do with budget, too I I don’t remember what the budget was for this one I know that I wrote it down somewhere, but 

Todd: it was a four and a half million dollar budget I believe and it made about five and a half or six at the box office So it made money but just barely over its budget essentially by hollywood standards.

So, um, right Yeah, it’s still it’s a low budget production I think a four and a four and a half million dollar production is a low budget in 1990 

Craig: Sure Heh, I just went on YouTube and searched Night of the Living Dead 1990 documentary. Oh, did you find one? There are several of them, and I watched one, I chose the one that was like 20 minutes, because I didn’t want to watch 

Clip: hours of it.

Craig: But there’s actually even, I looked at something on YouTube, there is well over an hour of just, it seems like, Behind the scenes footage without commentary, it seems. It’s just like, like an hour of behind the scenes footage. 

Clip: Hmm. 

Craig: You see how they do the effects, and they talk about the effects and what they were trying to do, and it, it actually is.

Like, there’s blood splattering everywhere. Like, there’s, at some point, it’s zombies. They never call them zombies because they never call them zombies in these movies, but I’m going to call them zombies. This one zombie comes in, he’s very thin. You can kind of see his ribcage, but you can see his ribcage because he’s Shirtless.

Todd: Mmm, yeah. 

Craig: And apparently that this was the first time that you had ever seen anybody get shot. I mean, according to this documentary, I watched that, I don’t know. With no shirt on. So they, they had to like build. Like skeleton, like ribs and things and stuff. Yeah, around, around his body. Like a, like a, a plastic thing around his body to make it appear like it was his body and then the squib.

Could explode out of it. 

Todd: Gotcha. 

Craig: And the effects in this are great. And you mentioned, but we must draw attention to the fact that this is directed by Tom Savini, one of the most reputable and respected special effects guys in the industry, period. Yeah. But this is his directorial debut, correct? 

Todd: Correct.

Yeah. Yeah. And he said it was a nightmare. Yeah. He didn’t enjoy the experience because he was constantly being meddled with during production, right? He got, he said about 40 percent of his original vision made it up on screen and the rest of it He said because George Romero wasn’t around to go to bat for him, I guess It was the producers who all had so many opinions and forced him to do things he didn’t want to do Yeah, that’s such a bummer.

Yeah, did you hear more detail about that in the documentary? No, not really You It makes me wonder what he 

Craig: wanted to do because the things that he did do though. There aren’t a ton of differences. I don’t know if this was him or if it was the studio, but it’s very much like the first one in the documentary that I watched, I did read that he wanted.

Kind of cast some characters so that they would be reminiscent of the characters that you remembered in the first movie, like specifically the one that when he was saying that the ones that they showed were the basement dads. They’re very similar. 

Todd: Yeah, they look similar. They act. Almost exactly the same.

Right. I have to say, I This is why I felt the movie I felt the movie was a little uneven, because I felt the times when they were trying especially hard to make it reminiscent of the original, were some of the weaker moments of the movie. And I thought that the basement dad and the mom thing was pretty weak.

I did not think that that mom’s acting was good at all. That was just Embarrassingly bad and every time it comes to the dad it gets very Melodramatic and I don’t know, you know, you could argue the original was quite melodramatic as well But it was but somehow it worked in a black and white B movie Whereas for me in this update Especially seeing some of the good stuff that was happening with Tony Todd’s character, some of the more interesting, more modern stuff that was happening with Barbara, which threw me for a loop.

Yes. It just, it just felt like out of place to have this melodramatic Moments with this guy and I mean don’t get me wrong this I liked this bit about the original like I told you this was The thing that frustrated me as a kid like why won’t this guy get along with everybody? Why is he so selfish and then to see the parents get there and the way they do in that movie at the hands of You know their own daughter which comes out of left field because I think by that point in the original movie We’ve almost kind of forgotten that she’s still down there, you know, and we also don’t really Understand that people We’ll come back to life quickly after they’re dead, you know, I think it’s the I might be wrong about this But I think it’s the first time and and only time it happens to one of the main characters in the movie, right?

Yeah, the ones in the house anyway So, you know all of that was very impactful to me and I and this guy’s performance like I said was almost Second for second, beat by beat, line by line, the same as that guy’s in the old movie. I think it worked a lot better played up against Barbara screaming hysterically, like the stereotypical screaming hysterical woman who’s pretty much useless for most of it, which is a little eye rolling, you know.

But again, it kind of fits with the time, the way movies were. Provides a nice counterpoint to the very strong and capable main character who happens to be black and there’s some racial tension there. The stew, I think, worked a lot better for me in the original, whereas it just felt very uneven to me with this one.

And although I recognized it as being homage to the original, and I like that aspect of the original, I just didn’t think it worked in this mix. And I would have liked to have seen it be a little more realistic, you know, in that sense, that part of it. 

Craig: Gosh, I just felt. Entirely differently. I was ready to say to you, like, I think this is a great remake.

And maybe I already did say this. I think I already did say that because you said it. I get what you’re saying. Like, if you’re going to remake it, remake it. I love the things when. It’s what I remember from the original, and it’s close to it, like, if you’re gonna do it, like, really do it. Yeah. And I feel like he does.

Clip: Fair. 

Craig: But then he also does other things, like, the, the gore is updated, so I’m, I’m kinda conflicted on that, but I do agree with you, I, I hope we agree, that the new stuff that he does with it. Barbara in the original is insufferable. 

Todd: Yeah, she’s super annoying. 

Craig: They should have just killed her from the beginning.

Like, like the human people, not even the zombies, like the human people should have just killed her, like they should have just kicked her out. Would 

Todd: have been a lot easier for them to Yes, but here he goes completely opposite now Barbara starts kicking ass almost as soon as she arrives 

Craig: And and they do the whole thing.

I from the beginning. I’m not gonna try to go through the whole thing I swear like it kind of looks like it’d be black and white for a second and Tom Savini Wanted it to be black and white in the beginning and then for color to like start coming in like Wizard of Oz I guess I don’t know whatever but 

Todd: When the zombies open the door.

Craig: It’s like this big moon rising. And then it opens the same way that the last one, or excuse me, the first one does with this brother and sister. 

Todd: Yeah. Bill Moseley. 

Craig: Right. I didn’t even recognize him because I feel like this is one of those moments. Where I feel like they’re paying such tribute to the original.

Like it’s not exactly the same because he starts taunting her in the car before they even get out. But he is costumed to look so much like the guy from the original, from that classic clip where he comes up from behind the tombs and was like, they’re coming to get you, Barbara. I loved that. It’s great.

It’s great. I 

Clip: love 

Craig: that and it’s those winks and nods where it’s true to the original that I really appreciate and I appreciate the balance of that against. Then Barbara escapes the same way that she did in the last one where, you know, she gets in the car and puts it in reverse in it and then she runs to a farmhouse and then they’re in a farmhouse forever.

But she is not. Helpless. Yeah. In this movie at all. Correct. In the thing she addresses in this movie what infuriates me that they don’t address in the original. She keeps saying Look at them. They’re slow. 

Todd: Yeah 

Clip: They’re so slow We could just walk right past him I wouldn’t even have to run I could just walk right past

We have the guns. 

Craig: We could just walk the f k out of here and Ben, Ben, who is supposed to be the voice of reason in the first movie and in this movie, but I feel like he’s never really confronted with it. With it in the first movie, but in this movie, he just keeps saying, nah, shut up. No, 

Todd: honestly, that’s one of the big differences here between this one and the original.

And the original Ben is pretty much like the only voice of reason. Ben is the leader. He’s in charge. He’s pretty much the only person making all the right moves and doing all the right things and trying to get everybody to pitch in. 

Craig: As the audience, you are meant to trust him. You are on his side. Yes. He is the voice of reason.

Todd: 100%. Correct. But in this one, he’s got competition. She is very quickly also able to hold her own, picks up a shotgun, and is shooting away zombies when nobody else is, and is coming up with good ideas, and volunteering to go do things. I mean, it’s not only is it a total 180 from Barbara in the first movie, but it’s like we have two, main stars here where in the original very clearly there was one protagonist that we Trust and are on his side and is kind of leading the way and doing all these things 

Craig: I don’t have that actress’s name in front of me.

I don’t know if you do or not 

Todd: Patricia Tallman. 

Craig: Yeah, she was great Fantastic and and she’s a stunt woman. She was mostly a stunt woman. Mm hmm, and she’s done some acting She was a stuntwoman The iconic witch from Army of Darkness, Army of Darkness, one of them at least. 

Todd: Well, she was in Babylon 5 and um, a couple of the Star Trek TV shows, even, even back to Next Generation.

Craig: I thought she was great. Yeah, she was a badass. She was I think that’s one of the things, you know You said Savini said he got about 40 percent of what he wanted I think this is one of the things that he got he didn’t want her to be weak and pathetic He wanted a strong woman in the vein of Sigourney Weaver like that’s specifically what he was thinking of 

Todd: He gets it to the point where the statement that the movie ends up making because all of these Night of the Living Dead movies, Day of the Dead or whatever, always make some kind of political statement, seems to be more about gender roles now.

Then, uh, about race and racism, like the first one was. That’s true. And that’s a, that’s a modern update that makes sense, you know? It makes sense to do that. The ending is extended considerably, and I thought it went on a little too long. A little past where I was interested, to be honest. I mean, I was interested to see where it was going.

But I’ve seen The Walking Dead, so I’ve already seen a vision of what people are going to do with zombies once they’re kind of cool with them being around. I thought that was a little overplayed, and it wasn’t as shocking as the ending is in the original. And it doesn’t need to be. I just kind of expected another gut punch, you know, in this one, like I got in the first one.

And, uh, this This really didn’t have it. It just kind of, it just kind of ends. Ha ha ha, you know? I mean, I mean, you want to talk about the ending? We’re, we’re 20 minutes in. I mean, we can jump around, but no. Alright, we’ll save our, we’ll, we will talk about the ending later. Alright, let’s go back to her.

She’s in the house. She’s a badass. Tony Todd, they’re rounding up all the others. There’s a girl and a boy. Poor boyfriend and girlfriend. Yeah. His uncle has the house. You know, after they board up all the windows and doors, they decide their best bet is to try to get the keys to the gas pump, which must be in the house somewhere.

Craig: Oh. You know? I know, I know. Yeah. And all of that is the same that, yeah. You just described both movies accurately. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: One of the things that I liked about this movie, but it also made it confusing, and I know I’ve already alluded to it with. The girl that we were just talking about, but sometimes, especially when they first get to the house, zombies come around and Tony Todd just whoops their ass.

Todd: He’s an action hero in this one. What are you 

Craig: scared of? He just whooped their ass. 

Todd: At one point he’s out on his own, right? I mean, it’s later in the movie, but it’s, and he just, he just plowing through those things. They’re surrounding him and he has no trouble just like taking them out, getting them at the knees, like a football tackler, whacking them around.

And they’re coming up behind him. He just does that whole, like the backwards punch thing with his fist. Like it’s kind of funny. 

Craig: There is some part in the movie where he puts his hand up by Barbra’s face, his hands are 

Todd: huge. Yeah, they are 

Clip: huge. 

Todd: I mean, he’s always been a big guy. He’s a tall dude. Yeah, he’s a big guy.

Yeah. He’s six foot five, man. 

Craig: He’s very big, but I was talking, I have a friend. I won’t mention him by name cause I don’t want to embarrass him, but he’s a big guy. And I was just talking to him about this. I was like, you’re a big guy, but you don’t really like occupy a big space. Like your hands are small.

I feel like, no, no, no, no, no. I feel like Tony taught us like that. I feel like with men, especially when you’re that big. That can be threatening and intimidating. You’re a tall guy, Todd. I don’t know. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Do you understand what I’m saying? Like 

Todd: Yeah, some people are tall and imposing. And other people are just tall.

And I always try my best to not, you know, look down on people and things. To the point where my posture’s bad, actually. I I, uh, I ruined my posture when I lived in Japan, and I was surrounded by a lot of people who were considerably shorter than I was, and I thought that if I just bent over a little bit more, that it would somehow put them more at ease with me.

Instead, it just made me stoop over. 

Craig: Yeah, there’s definitely, you know, something about physicality, but I, I just feel like Tony Todd, I know he’s a big guy. He’s an imposing guy. And his voice is, you know, it’s just amazing. And it could be anything. It could be scary. It could be, I’m just saying like, he can be a zombie ass kicker.

Yes, yes, yes. But also not scary. Like, Oh, right. When he’s trying to explain things to people and when he’s trying to talk to Barbara, like he can be kind. Yeah. There’s a soft side of him. I mean, for lack of a better word, that, that sounds scary. Stupid, but he’s, he’s not just scary guy. And I, I actually kind of feel like he is a little bit more nuanced than the guy in the original.

The guy in the original gets really angry in the end. Yeah. But wouldn’t you, of 

Todd: course, of course, you’re right. I really like this acknowledgement. That the zombies, kind of individually, or even in much smaller groups, are really not that hard to beat. And, that is, we’re almost constantly reminded of that throughout this movie.

And how easily, She keeps saying it! She keeps saying it. 

Craig: Then it’s like a joke. It made me mad because she keeps saying it. Like, I appreciate everything that they’re doing. And there are several arguments in the first movie. The argument is, do we hole up in the basement or do we take our chances up here?

Right. And there are arguments for both. I agree. With Ben that it makes more sense to stay up here because if they get in at least we have a way out shot it Running for it, right? That makes more sense to me. You get yourself in the basement. They get in you’re stuck down there, but in this remake there’s a third option that she keeps bringing 

Todd: Right.

Like, as 

Craig: they’re boarding up, oh, this drove me nuts, too. As they’re boarding up the windows, she’s looking out there, she’s seeing them, she’s like, look at them, they’re super slow, we should just leave, like, 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: It’s not a big deal, and he’s like, no, we have to stay here. The other thing that makes perfect sense, but that drove me crazy, was that they were all that time that they were boarding up the house, they were drawing.

The zombies to them 

Todd: right there make it noise, you know, we 

Craig: should do yeah Let’s let’s make a lot of really loud noise This is your fault 

Todd: Come to think of it It does make Ben turn out look to be like the guy with a little worse judgment, doesn’t it in a way? Cuz he’s obsessed with I think so hoarding everything up.

Well it even hammers the point home comedically when she finally gets out toward the end when she’s out there and She’s just walking around and she’s looking at the zombies and almost chuckling and she just kind of Pushes one or two back right and laughs turns her back on a couple of them as well.

She Is fine. Yeah. Like 

Craig: it’s like, yeah. She’s basically surrounded by them and not a big, and she doesn’t even give a shit. She’s like, yeah, this , 

Clip: it’s not a big deal. 

Craig: Yep. I don’t know. She has mommy issues. I don’t even remember what that’s all about, but I feel like there’s one zombie that’s like holding a baby doll.

Oh yeah. And she. That’s the one she 

Todd: pushes around. 

Craig: Like with the shotgun, with the barrel of the shotgun, she keeps like pushing it around and it just won’t go away. Like it’s not a threat. It’s just annoying. And she already has mommy issues anyway. So she just blows his head off. I really did. very much enjoyed this movie, but it was, it was that specifically that really bothered me.

Like, they could have just left at any given time. And some of the things that frustrated me are, are things that they just kept from the original. Like, That whole ordeal, where they have to get the keys. Yeah. They have to get the keys, and then they have to get to the truck, and then they have to get to the gas tank, and then they’re And that idiot’s 

Todd: at the gas tank And he has the wrong keys Idiot!

So he decides to shoot the gas tank like a dumb moron, which explodes. Oh my god, what an idiot. That’s the 

Craig: top. Oh my god. I liked that dumb kid until he was dumb and shot the gas tank. Yeah. His girlfriend was not particularly a good actor. Well she was, she was 

Todd: the screaming woman in this, in this one. Like she didn’t have much more to do than to walk around and be freaking out all the time.

I 

Craig: feel like in the original she was kinda cool. 

Todd: Yeah, there definitely became a point where I was like, Oh, so that’s what they did. They just reversed these two roles kind of, I mean, not exactly because nobody was as big of a badass as, as Barbara ended up being in, in this one, but, uh, 

Craig: true. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: The basement family felt to me a little bit less believable this time around.

Yes. It was easier. It was easier for me to believe. That a woman would just follow her husband’s directive. I mean, the wife in the first one certainly questions it. It was more difficult for me to believe. You know, I feel like they tried to make the wife in this one a little bit more Like she stood up for herself a little bit more.

A little bit. I don’t know, whatever. 

Todd: She was toothless though. 

Craig: But it was basically the same. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Clip: We’re going up. We’ve got to get help for Sarah. I’m not opening that door, Helen, and neither are you. And if you try, so help me out. You Is your daughter lying there? We have got to get her to a doctor. There’s no doctors upstairs, Helen, and there’s no way out of here.

Craig: That whole part was basically the same. One of the things that bothered me about that whole part was, and I guess, I don’t know, maybe it was the same in the original, I don’t know. Maybe it has something to do with filming laws, but their little girl who is dressed like a China doll is a woman. I don’t know.

She’s a woman. 

Todd: Yeah, she’s not a girl at all. 

Craig: Why is there a full grown woman in, like, bobby socks? 

Todd: It’s like Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz all over again, yeah. 

Craig: It’s crazy. Other than that, I mean that, that mostly ends up the same way as it does in the original. I’m trying to think of ways that it doesn’t.

Differs because I, I don’t know how else to approach it because come on guys, you, you surely seen night of the living dead. It is a pretty faithful remake of the original. Like there are some differences, especially in the way that it ends, which we’re obviously going to get to, but to go through it. Plot point by plot point would be redundant.

Todd: I think in today’s age, by the time a person is seeing either the original or this film for the first time, they’ve probably already seen so many other more complicated, more intense zombie movies. Fast moving zombies that you know, I don’t even think this movie claims that you know getting bitten by a zombie turns you into one It’s just if you die everything that dies is gonna turn into a zombie because of reasons unknown and and 

Craig: Emily the the basement girl got bit.

That’s why she turns into a zombie. Is that the reason though? Yeah Yeah, they specific. I remember they specifically say that she got infected because she was feverish in that In that documentary that I watched, they were talking about, and we’ve talked about this a bazillion times about how horror movies are, they reflect the fears of the time and this came out in 1990, intended or not, this was kind of about the AIDS scare and the mom specifically said, yeah, the mom says she got bit by one of those people.

Oh. And, and, and that Really? So, yes. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. That was a very comp That was a very complicated answer to your very simple 

Todd: question. Now I’m way more interested in what you have to say about this. Because, what you learned about this. Because, aside from a reading of that particular line, what else in this movie references the AIDS scare?

Craig: I don’t know. Fear, fear of others, fear of infection, I don’t know.

Let’s just keep talking about the movie. Let’s keep 

Todd: talking, I don’t know, let’s talk about the end. Let’s go to the end because it’s so different. Because in the first one, you know, there’s definitely this racial tension. Yeah. And, you know, we’ve said it before in the previous episode, it’s been said a million times that Romero was quite progressive and even casting a black man as a lead in this.

Craig: But may I interrupt you? To, just to say that it’s been a while since I’ve watched the original, and there certainly is, there certainly is racial tension, but this is a small group of people, and while that certainly plays a role, it, it, it, it feels It’s not an overarching theme. Right. I agree, but Within the microcosm of these people, and I feel the same way here.

Yes. Yes. I feel the same way here in this 19, Tony Todd is Black. He’s a big Black guy. He just is, but the character, the character of Ben was not even written for a Black man, like Romero just decided. I don’t even remember why he just decided, or no, I think that guy, the, the original guy came in and auditioned He just so good 

Todd: Yeah, that was it.

Yeah, he 

Craig: was just so good. He was like, okay. 

Todd: I know. I know all this. And then Romero goes on to claim that it never even crossed his mind, which has to be not completely true. It can’t be entirely true. Because if so, the very ending of the film would have just been this huge coincidence, the obvious reading of it, which is, you know, he’s the only one who survives.

He gets up, he starts to walk out of the house, and then he just gets mistaken by a zombie by the police officers and shot. And then we get all these photographs of him being dragged out and pulled out that are very reminiscent of the old photos of lynchings, you know, that occurred back then. Yeah. And this movie has a montage of photographs at the end, but it just seems to be something that They thought they needed to include, because there were also photos in the first one.

Because there’s no thematic element to that. Unless, unless it all just went way over my head. I just saw these still close up photos of them dragging all the random zombies out. Interspersed with every sec every second photo is a close up on her eyes. I was like, what? So then I thought, well that’s an odd way for the movie to end.

But it doesn’t end there. It keeps on going. To where she’s at this like. Sort of encampment, where all these good old boy, for lack of a better term, like stereotypical redneck jerks, who are out there drinking beer and having a barbecue and throwing a big making a big old party out of all this. It’s very bro heavy type attitude there.

And they almost shoot her. Mistaking her for a zombie, but that seems weird because then when they realize she’s not a zombie, they start leering at her. Yeah. And I almost think, God, is she in trouble? That made me very nervous. But then they just walk off. I’m just, I was so confused by how this ending played out that I got this general sense that she’s a woman in a man’s world who was smarter than all of them.

But. The point that was so clear and crystal at the very end of the last movie and that shock value that it had, there’s nothing here. If he’s trying to make a point, and I think he kinda is, it’s, it feels sort of half assed, and then, and then the movie’s done. 

Craig: The original ending is more shocking for sure, and I think that There, whether he says he intended it or not, I think there are clearly racial undertones going on there.

Like had that been either a white woman or a white man who had walked out of that house, would they have shot him or them, you know, sight unseen, you know, right. This one I think kind of loses. I almost feel like that’s one of the things that I like about night of the living dead. Overall, as I feel like it has, it makes that statement.

Yeah, I, I, I can’t believe that Romero didn’t, if he didn’t intend it and you know, I teach literature, so I talk about this stuff all the time, you know, we all interpret things differently and you know, our interpretations are valid. I just, I find it difficult to believe that that was it. On his mind. I don’t know why he denied it 

Todd: for so long, but 

Craig: I think that what Savini.

Wanted to do, and I respect it, he wanted to make a statement about women, that women can take care of themselves. Yeah, I think you’re right. And that they’re smart, and you should listen to them, you big dummy. Because in this movie, one of the other changes is that Ben, Ends up going down into the cellar, like the place that he said, don’t go down there.

Don’t go down there. We can’t go down there. We can’t go down there. And that’s where he ends up trying to hold himself up. I’m still not really entirely clear about what happens down there. Right? Cause he seems to be, I mean, and I, isn’t the daughter already dead? Don’t they kill her at some point? Yeah.

The basement daughter in her sock kills. Both her parents? 

Todd: I know she kills them all. No, she doesn’t kill her dad. Her dad gets killed by Barbara. That’s a big change. 

Craig: Oh boy, we should talk about that. 

Todd: Yeah. Okay, 

Craig: so basement dad is a huge dick. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: But, you know. People are dicks. Whatever. I actually felt like he was he was less aggressive.

I kind of feel like base basement. Dad was more physically violent in the first movie. I think you’re right. And in this one, he’s he’s a dick. He’s for sure a dick and they keep threatening each other. It’s hilarious to me that they’re like, uh, Yeah. If you don’t come down here right now, I’m gonna lock it and I’m never gonna let you in and, and, and then Tony Todd’s like, like, they’re just fighting, like, it’s a little bit ridiculous, but Basement Dad, I don’t remember, I think he dies in the first one, but in this one he does not die from the 

Todd: zombie apocalypse.

And Barbara leaves. Barbara ends up at some encampment where, you know, she sees all these people hanging out. They’re even playing with zombies. They’ve got them, like, fighting against each other in a fence and all that. It’s actually very Walking Dead in a way. It feels like they’ve stumbled into one of those, like, the governor’s place in Walking Dead or something like that.

Anyway, then she wanders back to the house where the guys have already gone in there and seemingly have been ransacking it and going through it. But the dad pops out from around the corner in the kitchen and goes, Oh, hey, you came back and she raises her gun and shoots him right above the eyes and then turns around to the to the guys behind him and says 

Craig: another one for the fire and that’s what the sheriff says about Ben when they shoot Ben 

Todd: in the first one.

Yeah, 

Craig: another one for the fire. There’s another line That is said I think also by the sheriff something like yeah, they’re dead. They’re all messed up 

Clip: It’s 

Craig: a silly but classic line from the original and the guy that plays the sheriff in this movie was Johnny the brother in the original nice 

Clip: God, I don’t know, I don’t know if we’ve done this movie, it’s credit, and, and, we probably haven’t done 

Todd: Tony Todd, his credit?

Yeah. Yeah, Tony Todd’s great in this, his acting is fantastic. I think 

Craig: he’s fantastic. He 

Todd: clearly proved himself as a horror actor in this, because before this, you know, he was doing stage, he was doing some TV. But this seems to be the, a bit of a turning point in his career because it was just a couple years after this he got Offered Candyman and then Candyman is what just blew up for him and really established him as a horror icon Icon.

And he has been in big, I mean, he’s been in big Hollywood blockbuster movies. He was in The Rock. His list is long He was 

Craig: pivotal in the Final Destination series. Oh, yeah, he had that 

Todd: He’s like the death character, sort of, right? Yeah. In the Final Destination. In fact, I think that his last role will be released next year in the new Final Destination movie that’s scheduled for 2025.

Oh, I didn’t know that. So yeah, he’s working all the way up to here. And I remember him so well, like, every, just, you know, you see a movie and then he just kind of pops out like Hatchet, right? He’s like the voodoo guy there. Yeah. And it’s just like, they knock on a door and suddenly he opens the door and suddenly you’re just like, Heh.

Hell yeah. It’s Tony, Todd . 

Craig: That beca, I feel like that became his thing and I feel like Final Destination made that his thing. Like, we are gonna have a cameo and we’re going to make you really excited about it. And we’re gonna build it up. Build it up, build it up. It’s Tony Todd. Yeah.

It’s so great. Fantastic. And again, you know, obviously we’re a horror podcast and we appreciate him from those things, but he’s done everything, everything. He is a talented actor. And I think that he is also just one of those people who’s very gifted. 

Clip: Yeah. 

Craig: Genetically, like he’s big and he’s handsome, but also he has a very unique Look, so he can look mysterious.

There are also times when he’s played roles. I can’t remember specifically, but he has played roles where he’s been gentle. Like, I feel like I remember him in scrubs at some point, right? Like, like where he’s, he’s kind, you know, and, and comforting to people and he can do that. I believe he can do anything and the voice to be gifted with an.

Instrument like that is amazing and he was, you know, I’ll remember him from so many things. I, I, I think Candyman is his legacy, but we have reviewed so many movies that he’s popped up in. Yeah. He was in that like jail movie with all the horror icons. Oh God. Ultimately ended up not liking he was in one of the wish master movies, but he would just pop up all the time And it was always such Again, every time he would probably 

Todd: Love seeing him such a cool guy and apparently, you know If you were fortunate enough to be face to face with them, he was extremely cool to the fans 

Craig: read that too Just like super super Nice and that’s so nice to hear about people.

Tony. Todd was just 70 and it feels like I understand that that’s a good life. You make it that far That’s a good luck that these days it also feels like too soon. Yeah too soon. Yeah, it’s too bad. I Have been a huge fan. I remain a huge fan the man left behind A legacy. He really did. This 

Todd: guy will be remembered.

He will. It’s, it’s, 

Craig: it’s impressive. 

Todd: And then, you know, it was nice to be able to, I mean, we could have reviewed Candyman if we hadn’t already done it, but I actually think it was kind of nice to review his breakthrough horror film. You know, first horror movie was in. I loved this! Yeah! This was good. I 

Craig: thought it was fantastic.

I think you should watch it. It’s not amazing. It’s not groundbreaking. 

Todd: I really, really enjoyed it. Yeah, and I don’t want to give you the wrong impression either. I didn’t hate it at all. I just thought it was fine. Fair. There were a lot of elements I liked about it. 

Craig: To be fair, I Googled, was this made for TV?

Todd: Cause 

Craig: it felt a little made for TV. Yeah, 

Todd: right. But it wasn’t. God, it just would have been so awesome to see what Savini’s original, like, I know. I wonder what ideas he had for this. But you know who was the, one of the producers behind this was Manaheim Golan, you know, he was one of the canon guys. Golan and Globus, remember?

All the canon films that were going through the 80s and they were just spending money left and right and then when their whole production thing just kind of got sunk under, under dollars I think he went over to work for I don’t remember, was it Columbia? Who produced this film? Was it Columbia? Was it Columbia?

Uh, he became an executive big executive there and he notoriously Had lots of strong opinions, many of them were really dumb. Ha ha ha ha ha! As can be seen by a lot of the canon output. Highly entertaining stuff! Don’t get me wrong, I actually really love the canon movies. For what they are, but Me too.

Very few of them are, you know, you’d consider high art. And I feel like Savini would have brought some real high art to this if he had been given full reign. So, kind of a shame to see that, that, that he was reigned in a little bit like that. But, uh, we still ended up with a fine movie. I liked it.

Hopefully made, made some money back for Romero and his guys as well. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. We are coming up toward the end of the year right now, so if you have requests for us to do holiday movies, It is not too late.

We have not completely nailed down our list of holiday movies for next month. So go ahead and just find us online wherever we are. You can get to our website at ChainsawHorror. com. You can leave us a comment or message there. You can click on the Speak to Us button at the very top. And while I’m bringing that up, I have a message for us, Craig.

Do you want to hear it? 

Johnny B Ghoul: Yeah. To the best horror podcast out there. Todd, Craig, this is Johnny B. Gould. And I had to come on here just to let you guys know how much I enjoy your show. I’ve been listening to you guys since August of 2023 and I’m proud to say that I am almost finished with your entire catalog and I’ve enjoyed every second of it.

It’s fantastic. You guys are funny. You have fun. You guys seem really smart when it comes to doing these movies and you really give movies a chance too. Um, I love listening to a lot of the bad movies that you guys have done just because of how You guys make it. You really seem to enjoy yourselves. It really does show.

I’ve recently become a patron at your Patreon page too, and I have to say that there’s some awesome stuff on there. I’m really enjoying it. So I support you every step of the way. I’m always telling people about this. Your show. And I think it’s great that there’s still people like you out there in the world that enjoy horror.

It’s just really a treat and it’s just, it’s a, it’s a good feeling. So with that being said, again, thank you guys so much. Keep up the good work and take care of yourselves. 

Todd: So nice. So nice. And I mean, I got to apologize because, uh, Johnny B. Gould here actually sent us that a little while ago. But, uh, with the holidays and stuff coming up, it took us a little while to be able to get to put it up here on the show.

And, uh, he is one of our super fans, Craig. Yeah, I know. He’s really nice. We do a lot of chatting back and forth. He’s 

Craig: got a Yeah, 

Todd: he’s got a great voice. He should come on the show. It’d be fun. Oh, we’ll definitely get him on the show. Maybe for a Christmas episode. Yeah! He’s got his own podcast, too. We can, um, shout out.

It’s called Two Crippled Zombies, and they have been at it previously under the name Chainsaw Enema, I believe, and got a good thirty or so shows under their belt, and then decided to retool things, and have already put out a few episodes under the new name and new concept. So, uh, you guys should go check it out.

Those guys have a nice, uh, leisurely discussion about horror movies that’s not too dissimilar to our own. You could similarly leave us a message if you go to our website, ChainsawHorror. com, and you click on the Speak To Us link up at the top, you will get thrown to a site where you can just click a button, and uh, you don’t need any special software or anything, you can just leave us a voice message and that’ll go straight to us.

And if you leave us your email address up there, we can also respond directly to it. We’ll put you on the show, uh, we’ll thank you so much, just like we thank, uh, you. Johnny B. Gould here for listening and for being a longtime fan and patron. Yeah. If you’d like to get in on the patron action as well, go to patreon.

com slash chainsaw podcast. Boy, we really did a number of things really special for October. We have minisodes, we have a lot of discussion, we have that book club going along that started out as a Christopher Pike book club and seems to have grown into a mutant zombie of its own. We’re doing what, V. C.

Andrews and frickin R. L. Stine? Yeah, 

Craig: for now, for now, but we’re just, we’re expanding. Yeah! 

Todd: We’re broadening our horizons. That’s right. But it, no matter what it is, it’s what people want and it’s fun and we’re all having a blast. And we’re making really good friends along the way, so, uh Yeah. If that sounds appealing to you, it’s just five bucks a month to get in on that and, uh, support the show and become part of the team.

Just check it out, patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast. Also, like I said, uh, we do need those suggestions for your holiday horror movie, so find us there. Find us just by Googling. You can find our Facebook page, our, uh, Twitter feed, whatever. Just leave us a message at any one of those places and, uh, let us know what your idea is for our Holiday Horror Movie Marathon coming up in December.

Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

This week, we pay tribute to the legendary Kris Kristofferson by reviewing the 1998 cult superhero classic, Blade. Join us as we explore Kristofferson’s impactful role, dissect the film’s iconic action scenes, and discuss its place as a precursor to the modern Marvel era.

In This Episode:

– A heartfelt tribute to Kris Kristofferson, his versatile career, and lasting impact on film and music.
– Detailed analysis of Blade (1998), revisiting its groundbreaking effects and martial arts choreography.
– Trivia and behind-the-scenes insights into the making of Blade.
– Our personal reflections on Kristofferson’s role as Whistler and the film’s legacy.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell for more horror movie reviews and discussions! Share your favorite Kris Kristofferson moments with us in the comments below.

Connect with Us: Follow 2 Guys and a Chainsaw on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram for updates on upcoming episodes and more. For exclusive mini-sodes and behind-the-scenes content, join our Patreon family at Patreon.com/ChainsawPodcast.

#Blade1998 #KrisKristofferson #MovieReview #HorrorPodcast #2GuysAndAChainsaw #MarvelMovies #CultClassics #ActionMovies #TributeEpisode

Share your thoughts and favorite scenes from Blade (1998) in the comments below! We love hearing from all of you!

Episode 415, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys in a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, we come to that time where we do a tribute episode, and, you know, this is something that I kind of learned a little later. I don’t know how I find out when. People die. I guess it comes across my social media or it comes across the news probably and I think for me I think it was like a big news thing like cnn or new york times It was doing a retrospective about Kris Kristofferson who actually died late september So now that we’re done with all of our halloween holiday stuff before we kick off into Christmas and it becomes a new year I did want to revisit him because he’s another one of those actors that for me has just kind of Been around and he pops up in all kinds of places.

And I also knew he was a country singer and things like that. Just, he’s just been a guy who’s kind of always been there. You know, not at the forefront of my mind by any means. Like, Oh, there he is again. And I didn’t know that much about him. And I thought this would be kind of a fun opportunity to see if he had done any horror movies so that we could talk about them.

And I could also learn a little bit more about him myself. And so here we are doing a tribute episode for Kris Kristofferson. And the episode that we settled on was 1998’s Blade. A movie that I knew we were going to get to eventually. So we might as well do it now. He has a fairly prominent role in this one.

And I’m glad we came to Blade because, uh, I have not seen Blade, I think, since it came out. I remember renting this with buddies and thinking it was pretty cool. And I think I saw the sequel as well. I’m really fuzzy on that. And then I just kind of left it. So, uh, this is going to be my first time revisiting it since the nineties.

How about you, Craig? 

Craig: Yeah, I don’t know. I saw it when it came out, I guess. And I think I’ve seen both the sequels, but it’s been a really long time. You know, I was reminded about it recently. You know, this was Marvel maybe had done like one other or a couple other superhero movies, but. They hadn’t really taken off yet and they had just done, Oh, one of the Batman sequels, the notoriously bad one, I think with George Clooney and the bat nipples had come out just right before this, you know, the entertainment industry just kind of announced, you know, like the, the superhero movie genre is dead.

Like that, that Batman movie with the bat nipples killed it. Everyone got a lot less enthusiastic after that one. Yeah. But then this came out and it did. pretty well and it spawned some sequels that I think the second one did okay and I think Wesley Snipes thought that the second one was the best one. I honestly don’t remember.

I, I do remember that by the time the third one rolled around, I don’t know if Wesley Snipes was upset with the director or what, but I read that he was just a nightmare on set. Like he wouldn’t even like open his eyes, like in, like in shots and scenes, like he wouldn’t open his eyes. I don’t know. My point though, was that this kind of is the, like Marvel is so huge now.

In an annoying way, frankly. Like, I’m over it. I get it. I’m so over it. I get why those movies are fun and exciting and, you know, pre COVID when I still went to movie theaters, which I don’t really do anymore. They’re fun to watch on the big screen, but we just got so oversaturated with them. Yeah. I’m done.

Like, give me a f ing break from these videos. F ing superhero movies. 

Todd: It’s too much to keep track of, you know? I know. I remember when there was like a new one a year, or maybe two a year, and they, they interconnected with each other, and that was kind of exciting, and you’d wait for the end credit thing to see what was coming next, and then, you know, we knew it was all gonna culminate in like that one Avenge you know, those three Avengers movies, right?

Yeah. And it was fun to follow those interlocking stories and all that, but now I don’t know, man. There are TV series, there’s, uh, 15 movies a year. It seems like it’s too much to fill my brain with, and it’s just another one of those cases, in my opinion, of just like, too much of a good thing, suddenly you don’t like it anymore.

Right. It all becomes mush, and it’s not special. That’s true. I think they’ve done the same thing with the Star Wars franchise, to be honest. But 

Craig: that’s, yeah, that’s, that’s true as well. I mean, it’s so ubiquitous that it almost can’t be avoided. Like I’m still watching stuff, you know, like I’m watching Agatha all along now, which is a Marvel properties, spin off of Scarlet or WandaVision with the Scarlet Witch and like, and I’m not saying that some of those movies aren’t good.

They are like, I do enjoy them. Some of them are really funny. The funnier ones. I prefer those. It’s just so much anyway, that’s. Getting off topic, the point is Blade was kind of a precursor to this era. Yeah. And it seems very much in keeping with this era even though it also reeks of the 90s. It does. It’s very Matrix.

It’s very Yes. Charlie’s Angels. fascinated by really fast martial arts to like industrial techno music for a minute. Yes. 

Todd: And like bullet time and all these cool new effects you could do with CGI, which, you know, could, could really enhance the action and make things exciting. It’s hard to believe I’ve thought for a minute, okay, this was definitely very inspired by the matrix, but actually this came out a year.

Matrix did so it almost seems like this movie may have inspired some of the action in the matrix as well 

Craig: The thing that I read and of course, who knows you read things on the internet Who knows if they’re true or not, but people, you know associated the the two movies But really they were both written and in production Approximately at the same time.

Right. So it’s unlikely that they had any impact on each other at all. 

Todd: Sure. They just captured the way Hollywood was going, or the zeitgeist. Exactly. 

Craig: That’s what I was going to say. There were lots of those movies. Really, The Matrix, people, you know, talk about it was so innovative, it was such a big thing.

And it was, but there was a lot of that just because the technology was developing. And so you were seeing these similar effects. And similar shooting styles in a lot of movies, the Matrix just happened to be one of the better of them. And this movie, I wasn’t super excited to go back to it, frankly. Like I, I, it’s not that I remember disliking it.

I just had in my head, I have a feeling this will not have aged well. And ultimately I think I’m right, like, the action sequences are fun, if you’re like down for that, if you’re in the mood for it, and there are a lot of them. I was a little bit shocked at the effects, the digital effects, like the CGI is crazy, like, not good.

Todd: It’s pretty bad. I mean we kind of forget how bad it was back then because back then this stuff Even though by net by today’s standards, it’s bad was blowing us away because we were seeing it all kind of for the first time 

Craig: Yeah, and I’m not as I’m not as much of a gamer as you are But I feel like these looked like video game special effects Like I like I felt like I was playing like a first person Like horror shooter 

Todd: make no mistake video games were still very polygony when this came out like, 

Craig: you know, they 

Todd: were still right, right, right By today’s standards.

No, you’re right. What video games are today is kind of what this looks like Well, you know go back a few years, but it’s what this looks like right now Yeah somewhere in between and I think another point you’re trying to make as well You you know, you were talking about marvel. This is one of the first movies to really go super dark With comic book characters, it certainly wasn’t the first Okay, obviously we had the Tim Burton Batman, which I think you could credit with that and that was like at 89 I think 88 89 and then at some point the crow came along Before this in the early to mid 90s because we were all in kind of about the crow in high school But they were just starting to like make comic book movies that were not just being taken seriously But also we’re gonna go for grit And violence and put gore in there and very high stakes and really terrifying villains.

It’s no coincidence, obviously, that David Goyer, who wrote the screenplay for this, and was really responsible for developing this property, actually changing it from the comic book. This was based on a comic book, but the comic book character apparently was very different. They deliberately updated the comic book character for the nineties for this movie.

Subsequently, then. The comic book started to take the cue from the movie and change its tone and direction. I was surprised actually to learn that Blade was a character that was created for the Tomb of Dracula comic book series in the 70s. 

Craig: And the history of the comics is, is very interesting. Like, Blade was just a minor character.

I won’t remember it well enough. to recount it all. But if that’s something that you’re interested in, you should look into it. It’s, it’s very easy to research, and it is really interesting. Um, a minor character, really. Early on, anyway. Like, I think that maybe he had had a, like, one ten issue run. Yeah, he was introduced in something else.

But he did, I think he just had, like, before the movie was made, he had only been in like, one run of his own, like, Blade thing. Series or whatever. 

Todd: Right. 

Craig: All very interesting and you know Wesley Snipes who plays Blade was looking into doing a like a superhero Role, but he was really pushing hard for Black Panther And again, this is you know in the early 90s that he’s pushing for this and what I don’t you know, whatever happened I don’t know what happened that that didn’t come about but this black half breed vampire character He landed.

What I’ll say about it is is that I, I think that this movie and his character are iconic. I don’t know that in the pantheon of comic book movies and comic book heroes that he’s near the top, but people know about this character. I mean, Wesley Snipes just cameoed in. Wolverine and Deadpool. Yeah, I mean, I think there were a million cameos in that movie, but he cameoed as blade So like his character in some earth or some reality multiverse or whatever is still around He’s a cultural entity.

You know, I mean like people know who blade is. Yeah, it’s a big deal 

Todd: My mom would know who blade is, you know, even if she hadn’t seen the movies She would have an idea right of what this is. Sure Yeah, and it’s important to point out because it’s very current just last month in October They officially pretty much pulled.

There has been a new blade sort of reboot that has been in development hell for like a decade. They’ve announced he’s going to be a part of the, of the universe. I think like in 2020, they were going to bring him into the Marvel universe again, but he’s going to be played by a different actor and then just kind of went through all these things and a movie had been announced a couple of years ago and it just got pulled.

Off the list in October and it seems like that’s just dead. So, you know, it’s kind of interesting we’re doing it now. We just happen to be doing this now as well. You know, a couple other things I just wanted to say about it real quick before we start getting into the story. And of course, eventually talk about Chris Kristofferson.

Of course. Who’s also super fascinating. I can’t wait to talk about him. But we last revisited a David S. Goyer movie. Just a couple months ago. And that was demonic toys. That was one of his very first screenplays. 

Craig: Oh my God. That’s hilarious. I had no idea. 

Todd: Crazy. Right? 

Craig: What a change, 

Todd: right? But he went on from there to do a sequel to the crow city of angels.

So you could see, you can see the trajectory of his writing, right? What he’s interested in. 

Craig: He did a couple of the really popular, like, didn’t he do like Batman begins and, and yes, dark night too. 

Todd: Oh yeah. Yeah. The first couple of those Batman movies. And before that, I think probably the one that made, that got him some attention.

Although, the script did. It came out the same year, was Dark City. Have you ever seen Dark City? 

Craig: No, I remember hearing about it, but I haven’t seen it. 

Todd: Dark City is one of those, like, underrated gems. If you remember it, you love it, and you go, Oh my god, why did I forget that movie? It was so good. I think it’s still good today.

But yeah, you’re right. He eat at Dark City, which is amazing. Two Blade movies, actually all three of them. He wrote, he directed, I believe the third one, Guillermo del Toro directed the second one. Gosh, it’s so interesting part in, uh, in, in history. And again, at this point where Marvel was starting to get okay with being dark, Marvel was not yet part of Disney.

Marvel was still making pennies on their properties over these little like little deals that they had in this case with new line. I 25 grand off of blade, even though it went on to make tens of millions of dollars worldwide, but yeah, this movie is. far more violent, for its time especially, than any comic book movie had really dared to be, with maybe the exception of The Crow.

There’s gore, there’s blood everywhere, limbs are coming off, it’s just, it’s pretty intense. And then of course, the martial arts action scenes, which were all the rage. 

Craig: I don’t know how, really, to approach the movie, because it’s, one, long, and two, Plot heavy. Is it though? I, I, I say plot heavy. I don’t know that it’s, yeah, the, I, I, I get Maybe not, I just mean it.

Like things are always happening and there’s a lot going on, so I don’t know how detailed we want to get, but basically the whole premise. You get in the very beginning, you get his backstory. This pregnant woman is on a hospital gurney, she’s being wheeled like into surgery or whatever, and you can clearly see that she’s got blood and teeth marks on her neck.

She’s been bitten by a vampire. And she gives birth to a baby, and then presumably, So Blade, because he was like, in utero, and his mother was bitten, like, he’s, he’s a, he’s a half breed. 

Todd: So like, he has all of the positive qualities of a vampire. But very few, if any, of the negative qualities, right? So he can handle daylight.

He’s immune to a lot of the sil the silver and all the stuff that they say in this movie that affects vampires doesn’t affect him. But also he’s like super strong and heals right away. And the only thing that he’s really struggling with, he’s trying to keep an addiction to blood at bay. He’s got a serum that has been developed that he has to constantly inject himself with.

So that he doesn’t have the urge to feed off of humans, right? To keep him pure. 

Craig: I guess. I didn’t really understand that like so I guess from his infancy to puberty He just lived on the streets I’m not sure we know sometime around puberty And I say that because they specifically say that in the movie.

Whistler, this old guy played by Chris Christopherson, finds him. Now we don’t see any of this. This is an exposition dump later. But grisly old Chris Christopherson finds him. 

Todd: As grisly as he could possibly be. He’s playing his grisliest in this one I think. And he’s played some pretty grisly guys. I 

Clip: found him when he was 13.

He was living on the streets, feeding off the homeless. His need for blood had taken hold at puberty. I took him for a vampire at first. Almost killed him, too. Then I realized what he was. Blade’s mother was attacked by a vampire while she was pregnant. She died, but he lived. Unfortunately, he’d undergone certain genetic changes.

He can withstand garlic, silver, even sunlight. And he’s got their strength. 

Craig: This is one of those things that, that feels like comic book lore. It’s a lot of world building, but in a two, even a two hour movie, which is long to me, even in a two hour movie, you have to do it so quickly that it just seems like a lot of information.

Like, 

Todd: what? Yeah. 

Craig: What is happening? Like, who are you? Right. Why are you? Adopting vampire children. How did you rehabilitate him again? What is happening? There are like two or three different serums in the movie like there’s a good serum and then there’s also a bad serum and

Todd: That’s true the bad serums blue and others serums red I will say this about the movie and it’s a positive and a negative The positive is that they don’t spend a lot of time bombarding you with this lore. Like, you, you get bits and pieces of it, a lot of it is very expediently given to you in these just corny exposition dumps, you know, when one character happens to have a break in their life and can sit down and explain everything to the character who just came on the scene.

And so, and there’s a lot of blanks to fill in that we may, maybe get in the sequels, I don’t know. I don’t really remember. But yeah, so the movie doesn’t bother itself too much with that. But then again, for a two hour movie, it’s kind of surprising. So what does the two hour movie fill itself with? I think it’s a very slow pace.

Craig: Oh, see, I don’t know, maybe I didn’t think it was slow at all. Like, I always felt like stuff was happening. I mean, it felt very Action heavy to me, 

Todd: but I thought from the very beginning we know where it’s going almost within maybe the first 10 to 15 minutes We’ve we establish who the big bad guy is we establish what his goal more or less We’re a little fuzzy on the exact details But we kind of know what he’s trying to do and what he’s up against.

Then, there’s not a lot more mystery. We’re just kind of seeing them do the detective work and the moving from place to place and the fighting this guy and fighting that guy that’s sort of necessary to get to that point where we’re expecting to get to. You know what I mean? It’s not a lot of like, Oh, suddenly there’s a twist and the movie goes in this brand new direction that’s suddenly piquing my interest again.

At least that’s not how I see it. Felt about the movie. So for me, I did kind of get a little bored, even though there was stuff happening, I 

Craig: think, I think I understand. I got a little bored too. It’s really odd because I’m going back and forth between saying it’s heavily plotted. It’s not heavily plotted.

I think that it really is only because it feels like you are coming into this movie. I may be getting more heady here than is necessary. Like, all of a sudden, I’m just an observer in this world, and I just kind of have to figure out what’s going on. They don’t spend a whole lot of time explaining things.

It’s just like, here it is. Here is Blade. Here is who he is. Here is this bad guy. The bad guy’s name is Deacon Frost. He’s played by Stephen Dorff. Who is Stephen Dorff? Was Stephen Dorff The main kid from Monster Squad, is that? 

Todd: Was he? Oh, I don’t know. He started out as a child actor. I don’t remember all that he was in.

Um, he’s been in a lot of things. He’s a good looking dude. He 

Craig: was in one of those sexy Aerosmith videos with Alicia Silverstone. Yeah. He’s the bad guy, but then like, he’s kind of this rogue vampire. And then there’s also the, and he’s only a half vampire. Because he wasn’t born a vampire. He was turned into a vampire.

Wait, what? Like, right. The vampire lore here is also so like, it’s not the typical vampire lore that I’m accustomed to. And they’re not just going to, they’re not going to explain the rules to you. You just have to figure it out. That that’s what I mean. Like, I hear what you’re saying. I feel like I’m just all of a sudden.

I’m all of a sudden observing this world and they’re not gonna explain it to me. I just have to figure it out 

Todd: Yeah, and to its credit, honestly, I kind of like that. You didn’t hold our hand through it, really But then there are some times where the dialogue is a little silly. By the way, he played Glenn in the gate Maybe that’s what you’re thinking of.

That is what I’m thinking of for sure. Yeah So yeah, I mean, I get what you’re saying and I do, I do agree with you there. Like I kind of said earlier, it’ll stop every now and then to give you like a big exposition dump for some backstory that you need. But like I said, very early on, we see this creepy boardroom of older vampires.

And within that one scene, we learned that all of those vampires are like purebloods and they are like the establishment. They basically control the world, unknown to all of us. They’re in every sector of society and in power. And that’s the way they like it. But then this guy is the rogue one. Who’s a half breed who comes in.

It’s like, eh, you know what you guys, your old hat. You don’t know the way the modern world works. And we’re going to do things differently. 

Clip: Our livelihood depends on our ability to blend in and our discretion. Maybe it’s time. We forgot about discretion. We should be ruling the humans, not running around making back alley treaties.

Todd: And so he’s the loose cannon. And so he’s a threat not only to the world, but he’s also a threat to the current vampire establishment and the way they want to stay hidden. 

Craig: And it’s interesting. I like the way that they went with this. They went hip and cool. Like, in the comics, this was an old man. An old man who was like struggling with his mortality and trying to find a way to live longer and and here They went with this young hip looking guy, and I don’t really know what happened to 

Todd: Stevendorf.

I haven’t seen him He’s still making movies, it’s just not big things. It’s like, probably like, made for TV stuff. 

Craig: This is one of the most commercial things that he’s done since he was a kid. He didn’t like doing commercial things, and talked about that openly. He had his reasons for doing this when I don’t remember what they were, but like, He’s this cool, sexy, young guy.

And I think that works really well because he’s challenging all of us. Old tradition, right? At the same time that he’s challenging old tradition, he’s also using tradition to challenge tradition, which I actually thought was really interesting. Like all of these old vampires on this council keep telling them that he’s a big, dumb, dumb.

For trying to do all this research into their ancient vampire texts. They’re like, it’s a, it’s a dead language. Nobody can translate that. Meanwhile, he’s got a translating program running on the computer right in front of them. It’s clearly translating it. And he’s like, okay, grandpa, whatever. And then he does translate it, but that’s what I say.

Like, there are so many things going on. There’s this ancient text. And I want to talk about the person who apparently keeps the ancient text. I don’t know what’s going on there, but they’re not keeping it very well. Let’s put it that way. But then when he translates it, it translates into like digital.

Architectural designs. Yeah, it gets a 3d model Of a place of something like it looks like a I don’t know. It’s like a big cylindrical Structure or something and there are all kinds of runes. Oh my god There’s so much going on in this movie and I know that I’m jumping way ahead and we can totally jump back But my favorite part of the movie and when I say favorite part, I mean The most ridiculous part to me is that he translates the ancient language.

It gives him computerized architectural things for this huge structure. In the end of the movie, we end up in this structure, which is an enormous, Huge. We’re talking like, I don’t know, 10, like stories tall. They didn’t construct it. He just says, you all forgot about it. 

Todd: Yes. These geniuses forgot it ever existed.

Craig: But we found it right over here. Like, what? In our city. What? What are you talking about? It is enormous. Like it is the size of a building and, and it’s pristine and just, they forgot about it. I know, right? Hilarious to me. Hilarious. 

Todd: Yeah. That bit was pretty silly. I laughed at that too. 

Craig: What is the conflict?

Frost, he’s looked down on, the council looks down on him because he’s a half breed, but they all follow these rules. Like we have a treaty with the humans. It is. You know, we can’t just run amok and do whatever we want. We have to abide by these rules. And Frost, you know, the young, rebellious one is like, you know, Why do we have to do that?

They’re literally our food. We should be able to do whatever we want. So that’s the conflict there. And then obviously Blade is trying to stop the vampires. 

Todd: In general. 

Craig: Right? 

Todd: Frost is just making it a little more imperative. Because Frost has like, for example, a nightclub that you get to through a meat locker where it’s just populated by vampires and they bring victims in and then spray blood over everybody in the crowd.

You know, that opening, that, I thought it was the opening. What? 

Craig: Sorry, I didn’t mean to like stop you in your tracks. Yeah. But I, I thought that that, that scene was really hot. And when the movie opened and I saw Tracy Lourdes. Yes. And then I saw that she was not top build, but among the top build. Yeah. I was so excited.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: She is like sexy and she’s like leading this guy into this really sexy Sexy club full of sexy people and yeah, like techno music and strobe lights and everybody’s just like grinding on each other and it’s sweaty and just really hot. Oh yeah, I was so, so excited. And then I was super bummed that she wasn’t in the movie anymore, was she?

Todd: You know what’s funny about this is that that scene is the only scene I remembered from this movie from way back And I remembered Tracy Lourdes was in it and somewhere in my mind I thought Tracy Lourdes was right there beside the big bad guy through the whole movie and it’s not it’s this other girl I wish 

Craig: she were 

Todd: Yeah, I do too, because I’m a, let’s just say I’m a Tracy Lourdes fan and leave it, leave it at that.

Craig: Listen, I, listen, I am too, honestly, and not maybe for the same reasons, but she’s very, she’s a very interesting person. Yes. Her life and her career are so interesting, and she has made for herself a legitimate acting career, and I always enjoy her. I find her really. Fun to watch on camera. I don’t know if she’s ever gonna win any awards, but she’s compelling She’s compelling and like this was just perfect for her She looks like I don’t want to say a porn star, 

Todd: but she looks like a porn star, you know Like she’s just very sexy She’s a sex pot and always has been and I don’t and on the one hand like I don’t think she’s really tried to be anything But honestly, she claims she has but every role she’s taken kind of everything that she’s done has really leaned into that So, uh, 

Craig: I loved her in that movie except Do you remember that movie that we did?

Yes, we did. She was the mother, right? She was like the conservative. Mother. Yeah. I thought she was great. That’s 

Todd: true. I guess that’s one of the few roles when, yeah, she did that. Wasn’t she also in Serial Mom? Am I wrong about that? 

Craig: I don’t remember. I’ve only seen that time. 

Todd: Oh, John Waters kind of liked her.

He had her in Cry Baby as well. That was one of her earlier mainstream roles. Yeah, that was also very disappointing for me to see her in there and I thought I was going to be seeing her as I remembered through the whole movie and no, I think she dies in that club sequence actually. I think she’s one of the last vampires to lash out a blade and he, uh, I don’t know.

Craig: Well, and that’s the thing, there are multiple This is the first of many, many scenes where Blade takes out like a hundred people. Yeah, I know! Or, or vampires. 

Todd: He starts using martial arts at first. It’s so hilarious because I even said it out loud as I was watching this scene. You know, he’s doing all these cool martial arts, he’s got his kn his blades, his knives, he’s swinging around, he’s got some thing he throws and all that stuff.

And then about three quarters of the way through, he just whips out a god and just starts mowing people down! Oh yeah, yeah. Wait, he could’ve just done that from the beginning. I guess he just likes to have a little fun. Fun first handguns, 

Craig: shotguns, machine guns. Like they’re all automatic. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Like he’ll just stand in the middle of a room with a big old machine gun and just spit around and shoot a bazillion vampires. And, and, and he’s just, you know, he’s killing vampires. They, uh, you know, they’re bad and they kill people. And 

Todd: well, he’s searching, he’s searching for the vampire that killed his mother.

That’s his motivation. Oh, he is. Yeah! I didn’t even get that! Oh yeah, yeah. No, there’s a moment where he sits down and he admits this, uh, to the woman, Karen. Karen is the hematologist. Coincidentally, he meets a hematologist. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha He almost burns to death, he tries to burn to death a guy at this club, a vampire who he’s been facing off with for a while apparently and a sort of right hand man to the big guy, Frost.

Yeah. And she ends up helping her ex boyfriend, uh, Do a, what do you call it? Autopsy on the body. And of course the body comes to life and bites her ex boyfriend and then she ends up somehow embroiled in this and Blade visits her because he heard she was involved and is kind of trying to protect her but also use her as bait to lead him to others because he knows that now that she’s sort of had an encounter with the vampire they’re going to start coming after her and so they do and that’s how they get involved.

Craig: Well and she’s been kind of maybe bit. Yeah She might be turning into a vampire or maybe or maybe not but luckily she’s a hematologist So she can like make serums and 

Todd: stuff This is a good time to start talking about Kris Kristofferson Cuz what blade does is he gets in his blade mobile and he drives into the blade cave.

His blade cave is awesome Is a, uh, big kind of, it looked like a chop shop, but I guess it’s like an abandoned warehouse somewhere. That, uh, his buddy Whistler, played by Chris Christopherson, is in. And Whistler is his Alfred. Yeah. He’s the one who apparently developed the serums. He makes all of his weapons for him.

Gives him down home spun friendly advice. 

Craig: That’s, that’s the thing, like, he’s like, Alfred, like he’s not the prim and proper Brit. He’s like a rough and tumble, you know, American, America. Yeah. Oh, he’s seen shit. He’s definitely seen shit. Played by Chris Christopherson, who, Again, Todd, we’ve talked, we’ve said this so many times, and, and so often, I think that we do these tributes for precisely this reason, that these are just people who, they’ve always been there.

Kris Kristofferson has just always been there. Been there. I’ve always seen him in movies from the time that I was a child until now. I’m not a big country music fan. I don’t hate country music, but I don’t listen to it intentionally. 

Todd: Yeah, that’s me too. 

Craig: And so learning more about him, you know, I remember him from movies.

I can’t even tell you all the movies that I remember him from. From, he always kind of plays a similar kind of character. He plays that gruff American man. He’s very much a man’s man, like a masculine kind of guy. He’s got baritone bass kind of voice. He seems like somebody who, like, as you said, has been through stuff and you can trust him to shoot straight with you.

Like, yeah, it’s like a cowboy. Yeah, exactly. He’s a good old boy and he’ll shoot you straight. Whatever that means. That guy will 

Todd: shoot you straight. I like what you did there. I like what you did there. Well, one of his earlier film roles was Convoy. You know, did you ever see Convoy? No. It’s like a 70, early seventies movie based on a hit song.

Convoy was like his radio hit about truckers and CB radio. 

Craig: Yeah. I’ve heard this song. 

Todd: Yeah. You know, it’s like a novelty song. 

Craig: Like, I’m ridin 

Todd: convoy. It is, it is not at all like this rough and tough song. Like, the chorus kicks in like, We’ve got a great big convoy, rockin through the night. We’ve got a great big convoy, ain’t it a beautiful sight.

Come on and join our convoy, ain’t nothing gonna get in our way. We’re gonna roll this truckin convoy across the USA. That 

Craig: is gonna live on the internet until the end of time. It is bright and happy. I’m gonna pull that up at your funeral.

You know what? I wouldn’t mind one bit. It’s fine. And it’s a good segue because Chris Christopherson too was a country music singer and poet. songwriter. And he had some hits of his own, but he really was more, I don’t know if it was by choice. I, you know, I, I always think that’s really interesting. There are some songwriters who start out wanting to pursue their own performing career and it doesn’t take off.

But they are able to sell their songs and their songs become very popular with other artists. And it seems like Kris Kristofferson is one of those people. And then there are singer songwriters who are happy to be songwriters and to give their songs to other people like Carole King. You know, obviously Carole King has had a A huge career on her own, but she’s also written for many, many other people.

Anyway, that’s off topic. Chris Kristofferson. But no, it’s not. I, I didn’t know until today that he wrote me and Bobby McGee. I had no idea. That’s insane. And he dated Janis Joplin and he was in The Highwaymen. I do think I knew that. And the Highwaymen was him and Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson and I can’t remember.

But this guy, like, this guy’s huge, huge in country music. I knew him as an actor. I recognize him as an actor. I’ve always liked him. Anytime he pops up, I like him. He was in a silly movie with Dolly Parton called, like, Joyful Noise. He pop, he pops up. All over the place. 

Todd: He just pops up all over the place.

Pat Garrett and Billy, the kid, a star is born, which is a remake of an earlier movie, but then that got remade into the Lady Gaga one with Bradley Cooper, which is really good movie, by the way. 

Craig: It is good. I would like to see, I would really like to see the Barbra Streisand, Kris Kristofferson one, um, but like, I, I think I’m picturing those two men in my head, like Kris Kristofferson, Bradley Cooper, and I almost feel again.

I can’t say because I haven’t seen the Kris Kristofferson one, but Bradley Cooper was giving Chris Kristofferson in that movie. So I don’t know if he was borrowing, you know, I don’t want to accuse anybody of stealing, but it’s a very Chris Kristofferson vibe and he’s the mentor in this. And honestly, like I think this was the right choice to go with for the tribute for him, but we don’t get a lot of him.

He’s just tough. He’s been through it. Fix anything. Yeah, he can fix anything. He, he recognizes the truths of the world, like things aren’t always happy ending, blah, blah, blah, whatever. But he’s also a good guy. You know, he is taken care of blades since he was a kid and he helps him out and he’s Alfred or whatever.

Clip: I had a family once, wife, two daughters, then a drifter came calling one evening. A vampire. He toyed with them first. Tried to make me decide which order they’d die in. We kill as many of them as we can find. But it’s getting worse. Because of Frost. There’s something happening in the vampire ranks. There’s something big.

And at stake by life, that son of a bitch is at the center of it. 

Craig: What was interesting to me, and again, we’re running short of time, so I’m just gonna jump around, but in the end, the bad guys find their Batcave. Frost beats the shit out of Whistler. So much so that when Blade finds him, he’s under a bloody sheet and Blade pulls it off and thinks he’s dead, but he’s not dead.

And they have a talk. There are so many talks in this movie. There are a lot of talk. I feel like we could, we could approach this movie from so many different ways because there are so many monologues that I would love for you to cut into this. There are so many hysterical monologues. Like Wesley Snipes is constantly monologuing.

It’s hilarious. I’ve 

Clip: spent my whole life looking for that thing that killed my mother. It made me what I am. And every time I take one of those monsters out, I get a little piece of that life back. So don’t you tell me about forgetting. 

Craig: And he’s also constantly talking like Shaft, like, Motherf er, are you out of your damn mind?

Todd: I have so many Wesley Snipes lines written down here that are just too great. 

Craig: And I can only imagine that I don’t know. Maybe some of them were scripted, but I, I can only imagine that many of them were adlibbed. And I won’t do any more impressions, I’m sorry. Hahaha. 

Todd: But some of them were so funny. I’ll do one of my favorites.

It’s at one point where he gets Frost familiar. This is, it’s Frost familiar who, um, tracks down Karen. And uh, Wesley Snipes has to jump in and save her, and take her back to his Batcave. But at one point when he’s beating up on him and lets him go, he says, You give Frost a message for me. Tell him it’s open season on all suckheads.

Oh my 

Craig: god, yes, yes. So many, so many. All I was gonna get to was that Whistler tells Blade, You’re gonna have to finish me off. He’s like, no, I can’t do it.

And he’s like, all right, well, give me your gun. And Blade says no. And he’s like, give me your 

Todd: gun. Give me your fucking gun. It’s like, if he curses at him, he’ll actually do it. At first, it’s a nice, polite request. And then he’s like, okay. 

Craig: Yeah. So Blade does give him his gun and he walks away and he hears a gunshot.

And then we see Whistler’s hand fall down. Now I’m watching that and I’m like, what? Hold up, I am pretty sure that Chris Kristofferson is in at least one of the sequels. And he is! He’s in both! He’s in both of the sequels! 

Todd: He comes back. I guess. He didn’t shoot himself. He let Blade think that he shot himself to free Blade from the responsibility of having to take care of him.

But I have no doubt that Kris Kristofferson is enough of a man that he reached right over to his machines. He 

Craig: picked himself up. He rebuilt himself from the 

Todd: ground up like a used 

Craig: car. I’m sure he did. Wait, hold on. Let’s, let’s talk about Pearl real quick. I, I don’t even know how it happens, but they’re like investigating things and Blade and Karen are kind of like a little duo now.

And somehow they end up at a grocery store or a restaurant. They, they follow that guy that you mentioned before. There’s this cop that’s like a familiar for the really bad guy. They follow him to like a grocery store or something or whatever. And they’re looking for this person named Pearl. It’s so heavily plotted that I don’t even remember why they’re looking, but they, they find like this vampire library, I guess, 

Todd: Oh my God.

It’s through the freezer in the kitchen of a nightclub. And I love how blade is able to go in to this busy nightclub that looks like it’s full of bad ass, by the way. One other thing I noticed about this movie is it is chock full of Asians to the point where I was like, did I miss something? Is this supposed to be Chinatown America?

I noticed that too. There’s like one scene that’s outside in a park and there are Asian people walking around left and right and there are red lanterns hanging. It looks like it’s like decorated for Chinese New Year. 

Craig: Wasn’t this the club that was populated almost exclusively by Asian businessmen and there were teenage Asian girls.

Performing? There was like a J pop group. It was like a K pop. Uh 

Todd: huh. Yeah, to the point where I turned to Liz and I said to her Oh, look, it’s the sinister Asians again. This is like, you know, the sinister Asian trope I mean this was hot though, you know back then even the Matrix has these heavily Asian influences And then of course the movie being heavily martial arts styled, I guess All right, that means we got to put Asians everywhere, but always in this sort of no Asians have any prominent roles.

Let me put 

Craig: it that way. They’re extras. This may be getting too heady too, but do you think that that influx of that style in America at this time was because of the success of things like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, like, were, were we borrowing from 

Todd: I think this being definitely a Hong Kong style martial arts movie, the action is filmed in this movie like a Hong Kong martial arts movie would be.

Wesley Snipes himself is like a black belt in one of the martial arts since he was like 12. I mean he, he heavily wanted it in here and so I guess They decided, well, then that means we need to put a bunch of Asians in here, but we’re not going to give them prominent roles. No, we’re just going to make them looming in the background or walking around, or they’re going to be in trouble.

You know, like this, this little girl that the guy holds up at one point who bless her little heart does nothing, but just sit there and watch. 

Craig: Oh my gosh. That’s wild. You’re right. Like, yeah. Like was. Were they in a predominantly nat like, were they in Chinatown? Like, that’s what 

Todd: I’m saying, like I don’t think so.

I was really looking for it, and I thought for sure that was the case, but no, like, in the outdoor scenes when it’s daylight, except for that one, no, it’s like downtown New York or Chicago, and they’ve got, you know, Jewish delis and things in the background, all kinds of stuff, so. Hmm. It was almost like I don’t want to say offensive.

I don’t know. You can be your own judge of that. But I would say that if you looked at this and said this was borderline offensive, I probably wouldn’t disagree with you. Do we know where they filmed? Yeah, they filmed in L L. A. Oh. And mostly an empty shampoo factory that was no longer being used.

Craig: Interesting. The whole thing, the only reason that is even worth mentioning, because there is another big like gunfight and big fight in the library, but not before they meet. The keeper of the documents. Like it’s all so like, it’s so dumb. It is kind of dumb. It’s this enormous like Jabba the Hutt type vampire, which I read in the trivia, like he’s so fat because he’s lazy and he only eats the hearts of children and, oh, That’s really fat.

They had initially conceptualized him being surrounded by the corpses of children. That would have been exciting. They ultimately decided that was a little too much. This scene is really, like, I like it. I don’t know. As far as recommending this movie, I don’t know. It’s all right. It’s, it’s from a very different time.

If you like superhero 

Todd: movies, sure. Yeah. Gritty superhero action oriented movies with very little. of the smarmy tongue in cheek humor that you get in them now.

Craig: Available to stream for free. So I bought it. So, so, so now I have it forever or until Fandango goes down. But it’s just this big, like Jabba the Hutt kind of fat vampire. And Karen burns it with like a UV light. Like they have all of these. You know, technology things. She’s also, as I mentioned before, developed a bad serum that when injected into a vampire makes them explode.

She just 

Todd: whips that up with equipment that she just ran by and borrowed from the hospital. I mean, she had to have gotten like two big vans to fill up with these huge pieces of equipment that she just casually writes off as, Oh, I just borrowed a few things from the hospital. 

Craig: The final act all takes place at that big, like, Shrine, which is like a silo with Enormous deities carved into the walls and blah blah blah blah blah and what what frost is trying to do is And, and, and, and blade is the key because he’s special.

His blood is special. This is an ancient prophecy. This all gets so convoluted because his blood is special and they have to use it. To. Release the Blood 

Todd: God? The Blood God! Every time they said that I was like, Oh God, please call it something else. 

Craig: And then the Blood God is like a hurricane, and everything that it touches will turn into a vampire.

And it’s gonna be like the vampire apocalypse. But then it gets even more convoluted because at one point Frost like knocks Blade out and when he wakes up this like Coffin bed opens up and his mother is in it like all of a sudden Blades mother is around 

Todd: Yeah, that was a twist. I wasn’t seeing coming, 

Craig: but it’s also not telegraphed at all.

It’s not and When that coffin bed first opened, I thought at first that it was Karen, that they had Yeah Turned her into a vampire and like sexied her up, but it wasn’t, it was his mom And it turns out that his mom did die But was, you know, came back as a vampire and has been around all this time and as it turns out Frost is the one that turned her like When when that reveal came it was so late in the movie like it was so late Yeah, and I was like, yeah, really Jesus Christ.

I know I don’t fucking care. Like how is this gonna? 

Todd: Right. They don’t care. They really don’t it’s too late in the movie to get a reveal like this because when that happens you it Feels dumb Especially when it hasn’t been telegraphed, right? Like, oh, 

Craig: come on. I also didn’t like it, and I get that this is kind of a vampire thing, but it grossed me out that there were two scenes where the mom looked like she could not wait to get Blade’s dick in her mouth.

Like, again, I get it. They’re vampires. I get it. But, like, it was nasty. 

Todd: Yeah, and her one line about how you have to To remember I’m not your mother anymore. I’m like an entirely different creature. It still did not explain away. It was gross. Yeah. But blade is the key. Yeah. And they have this ancient thing that he can fit perfectly in, you know, cause they built it thousands of years ago, apparently, but it’s, it’s size just for him.

Craig: It looks like when Han Solo was in Carbonite. He got frozen in Carbonite, 

Todd: yeah. And he’s put in there, they take his shirt off. I thought they were going to strip him down, because, you know, as I remember, Wesley Snipes shows his ass in almost every movie he’s in, but apparently not in this one. 

Craig: Before I forget, this isn’t a Wesley Snipes tribute episode, but I don’t know, who knows, maybe it will be someday.

My favorite performance of Wesley Snipes, it’s not like I’m a huge fan of his, I think he’s pretty good. Fine, whatever. Yeah. He also, of course, has had trouble in his personal life. I think he had some trouble with his taxes, a little bit of time in prison. Whatever. 

Todd: Tax issues. 

Craig: But my favorite performance of his is in To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything, Julie Neumar, where he plays a drag queen, and he is fantastic.

Have you seen that movie? No, I’ve never seen that. Holy shit, Todd. Drop everything and watch it today. day. It’s that good. Oh my God. Patrick Swayze, John Leguizamo, Wesley Snipes, all three straight men playing drag queens. They, they, they took that project and they went for it. Like they’re, they’re not making fun of drag queens.

They’re not making fun of gay people at all. Like they are giving really, really sincere. performances. Patrick Swayze will break your heart in that movie. He’s fantastic. Wesley Snipes is one of the best drag queens I’ve ever seen. And that’s so wild to me, because otherwise, he comes across as one of the most masculine Yeah.

men I’ve ever come across. Like, like, like this dude is a man. 

Todd: He’s a specimen. And I’ve always felt that I’ve always felt that man was just carved out of onyx. In To 

Craig: Wong Foo, he said that he emulated the women that were around him when he was a kid. And he wanted to, you know, those were strong women that he respected and he wanted to honor them.

Todd: Oh, that’s nice. Dude, 

Craig: I can’t believe you haven’t seen that movie. It is. The 

Todd: title was too long for me, so I 

Craig: But there’s okay, so in this movie there’s the big showdown at the end They’re gonna sacrifice all of these pureblood vampires to this blood God and there’s a whole thing and ceremony and like lightning comes down and strikes all of the pureblood vampires and Skeleton bats fly out of them Yeah.

Okay. All right. And then all of those skeleton bats fly into Frost, the bad guy. And now he’s not Frost anymore. He’s the blood 

Todd: god, I think. But he’s, he’s still kind of more or less Frost though. Just, just with bloodshot eyes now. Yeah. And I guess superpowers? Yeah. And superpowers. Because he can now fight people.

Blade more or less one on one. I suppose 

Craig: there were parts of this that I love now First of all I read that they were supposed to fight for just a little bit and then The blood God was supposed to just turn into a giant sea of blood that would yes overpower the entire city and everybody would turn into vampires 

Todd: the scene was shot and Rendered in everything and it was shown to test audiences and they hated it, right?

Did you watch it? No, no. I pulled it up on YouTube and you would laugh, you would fall out of your chair laughing at it. It’s a good thing they changed it. The CGI is so bad and the bit, it’s just corny as hell. 

Craig: Well, I will watch it, I’m interested, I just didn’t have time, but what, instead they just allowed the two actors to sword fight, I don’t know, they had to reshoot it, whatever, I don’t know.

It’s a good call. I think it was a good call. Yeah, yeah, and it’s a great, it’s very good, it’s a good sword fight. And it seems very equally balanced for Most of the first half of it, but then it almost appears like Frost or the blood God whoever he is now had just been toying with blade for a while Mm hmm.

There’s a point where it paused like the the fight pauses and Frost says My turn. And I, the second he said that, I’m like, that is from the Lost Boys. This is a tribute to the Lost Boys because it’s the exact, when David and Michael are fighting at the end and, and Michael kind of gets like, he’s pushing David toward, I don’t remember.

But one of them says, My turn. 

Todd: Oh, God. What I liked is, It becomes a bit more cat and mouse, Because at one point, They do leave the middle of that thing. And he kind of chases him around. And I remember him, Like, has to beat up a couple bad guys in his way, And he yells, Frost! And then he comes into the other room, And beats up a couple other bad guys, And when he’s done with that, he goes, Frost!

Craig: That 

Todd: was, that was hilarious. 

Craig: That’s what I’m, when I say I don’t think it’s aged that well, there are parts like that that I’m like, oh boy, like rolling my, like wowza, like, come on. And okay, so they fight and eventually Frost doesn’t know about the serum that if injected into a vampire first turns them into a garbage pail kid.

And then makes them explode. And those effects, like, I don’t care, I don’t mind watching them. They’re not bad. They’re, they’re actually funny. It’s, well, it’s funny to me. Yeah, it’s comical in a way. It’s funny to me that in 98 or whenever this came out, we thought, oh, look at what they’re doing there. That’s new and different and something that you couldn’t do easily with practical effects.

Hurrah! Today, it looks silly. It’s silly. And stupid and comical. It looks like they’re intentionally trying to be funny and maybe they were, I don’t know, but it looks stupid, but Frost doesn’t know about those. He just thinks that it’s Blade’s serum that he takes to make him not need to drink blood. So in their final battle, when it totally looks like Frost is going to win because he’s got these great superpowers or whatever, Blade manages to get his vials back and he shoots them all.

He ninja kicks one of them into Frost. 

Todd: Yeah. After he says his best catchphrase of the movie. 

Clip: Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate a bill. 

Craig: Oh my God. Yeah. And I read that like Wesley’s knife just said that at some point. 

Todd: Well, it kind of. It’s not, I mean, it’s just, it’s so weird. It’s such a weird line that it doesn’t seem like a team of writers really, you know, poured over it for days.

I I’ll just say that, but it’s iconic. It’s one of the few lines from this movie that everybody remembers. 

Craig: I don’t know. I mean, that’s it like, and then he and Karen, you know, Walk out and he’s like, she’s like, well, I can still give you that serum that will turn you into a human. That was something that they had talked about before.

Like if I can give you a serum and you’re just fully human, then they can’t use your blood to resurrect this thing or whatever. But they didn’t do it. But she’s like, I can still do it. And he’s like, no, there’s still a war going on and, uh, I gotta fight it and, uh, I need you to help me. Cut to Moscow. Cut to Moscow where he just fights a Russian vampire in the snow, which is hilarious, I guess.

Todd: It’s badass hilarious. At 

Craig: one point in time that they filmed it, that Russian vampire was supposed to be Whistler. Oh. But they brought Whistler back for the sequels, which I don’t remember at all. Uh, the movie’s alright. It’s okay. Like, there are really great, if you enjoy, like, Matrix style, Charlie’s Angels style, mid 90s, like, ninja fights?

Yeah. Sure. I think you’ll like this. Yeah, it’s fun. The, the fights are very, they’re, they’re well choreographed. It’s a lot of fun. 

Todd: They’re in those, they’re also in like those 90s environments that we love so much. Like there’s a room that’s more or less full of glass. Oh my God. The minute they walk in there, you know, okay, this is going to be a fight scene.

Craig: It’s not just full of glass. It is a room. I don’t even remember where this was. It was the house, like it was somebody’s house or something. And there were just all of these walls that water was Flowing down all the time. Yeah, and I it’s so funny. Like when I was a kid, I would see something like that I’m like, oh my god, that’s so cool.

I would want to live there and then as an adult I’m like, ew gross like it would smell like a f king pool in there all the time Everything would be all like wet and mildewy 

Todd: it’d be just like It was 

Craig: a cool set piece though. And there’s cool stuff to look at. Like, I just, I feel like I don’t know, even the superhero movies today and this may be to their credit, or there may be to their discredit.

Like I feel like they have more to say. Yeah. This is just more of an action piece. It’s a little bit funny in some places. It’s too long. The original cut was like two and a half hours long. They cut it down a lot. They entirely reshot the ending. So this is actually the result of heavy editing. It’s not bad.

I wouldn’t turn you away from it. I wouldn’t give it an enthusiasm. Recommendation. You could skip it too and not really be missing a whole lot, but it’s all right. Chris Kristofferson was just a cool guy. I, you know, I don’t know if this is his best thing. 

Todd: I’m sure it’s not his swan song. Yeah. No, 

Craig: I’ve seen him in other things where he’s been more endearing.

Like, oh yeah, he dies in that Dolly Parton movie and that’ll maybe make you shed a tear.

But he really did that. like a cool guy and I don’t want to get numb to this. You know, we, we’ve done this so many times now when we’ve talked about people who aren’t with us anymore. And I don’t want to get numb to it because my intent and I believe that your intent in doing it too really is to pay tribute to these people who gave us a lot of entertainment and joy in our lives and who though we don’t know them personally, we feel their loss.

And, and we just want to acknowledge it. We want to say, thank you, you know, for entertaining us for so long and, and for your contribution. And I mean that genuinely. 

Todd: And even though he was a sort of a secondary character in this movie, he is a leading man in many others. And he has been, he has won awards.

He’s been recognized as a pioneer in the country music industry. He’s been credited with. of um, setting a new direction for country music back in the 70s. I think they call it Outlaw Country. And an incredible writer. I was kind of shocked when I read about his early life because this guy grew up much like I did.

He had a dad in the Air Force just like I did and he just moved from place to place. But finally when he went to university, he went to university for writing. He graduated. at the top of his class. He went, got a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford. Yeah, 

Craig: yeah, smart, smart guy. 

Todd: Summa Cum Laude from Oxford and wrote pieces early in his studies that were like published in the Atlantic and won awards.

I mean, this guy, you know, there’s a couple other people that we have attributed who are the same way. It’s like we know him for one thing, but we forget that there’s a lot more that he has done that has certainly been recognized. It just wasn’t in our, our orbit. You know? The writing, the songwriting, the songs that we’ve enjoyed by other musicians that we didn’t know that he wrote.

All of this stuff, like, kind of a, did a little bit of everything, and yet, not out there bragging about it. Just doing his thing. Just kind of like the characters in his movies, just a guy Who’s really good at some shit and doing his thing and knows what he’s about and really good at it. Cool guy. Maybe in that way, it was a bit of a fitting tribute to do this one.

Sure, sure, sure, sure. Rest in peace. Good job. You will be missed. Well, thank you guys so much for listening to this podcast. We really hope you enjoyed it. Let us know what you think of Blade. If you think it stood the test of time. You Your favorite memories of Kris Kristofferson, all you need to do is find us online at any one of our places where you can chat back with us.

That would be our social media sites on Facebook, Twitter, on Instagram, and on our website ChainsawWhore. com. Just Google 2000 Chainsaw Podcast, you can find us there. Our Patreon page is Patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast. And join the crew back there for as little as five bucks a month. You can get lots of mini sodes.

Boy, we did a lot of mini sodes last month. We’re planning on doing more here as we come into the holiday season, giving lots of goodies to our patrons. So if you’re interested in any of that, get on over there and join the family. We have a lot of fun behind the scenes. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig.

With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

This week, we fielded a longstanding request from several of you, and brought on board one of those lucky listeners, Neal, to discuss in-depth a clever meta-horror pseudo-documentary that neither Craig nor Todd had seen before. But oh boy, did we enjoy this one! Full of fun cameos and clever takes on the slasher genre conventions, it twisted and turned in places we both expected and didn’t expect at all – with a killer ending to boot! Enjoy, folks!

Episode 414, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: And today we are joined by a very special guest, one of our long time listeners and patrons, Neil. Neil, say hi to the people. Hey, how you doing? You’ve done a podcast, and do you have one going now, or…? 

Neal: I don’t currently have one, so a number of years ago, I started a podcast with some of my best friends called “My Favorite F Words: Football, Fights, and Films”.

So we would talk about college football and the NFL, we’d talk about the UFC and boxing, and then we’d talk about the latest movies that were out. And, uh, this kind of brings me back to the movie part of that podcast. And, uh, we did it for a long time, but COVID kind of took us out of that game. And, actually, the friend who turned me on to this podcast, uh, he might recognize his name. Gilly, he’s one of your early patrons. 

Clip: Mm hmm. Yeah. 

Neal: He’s the one that told me about your podcast, uh, at work. And I’ve been listening to you guys for a long, long time because of that. I don’t know, I’m rambling now, but it’s been a great experience and I got a little bit of experience talking on the podcast, so.

Craig: I feel like we were at a little bit of an advantage during COVID because we had already been doing it this way. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And it’s been doing it remotely for so long that it really, it was no different for us. 

Todd: We just had a little more time. 

Craig: We had a lot of time on our hands. So 

Todd: we’ve got a few episodes ahead that year.

I remember. 

Craig: But cool. No, we’re really glad to have you. You’ve, uh, like, like Todd said, you’ve been around messaging us for a while. When we started taking voice messages, you were one of the first one who jumped in and we really appreciate it. We always appreciate the support. So we’re glad to have you from the first time you called in.

I said, this guy’s got a voice for the radio. This guy, this guy should, should do a podcast. So we’re really glad to have you. 

Todd: And I 

Craig: appreciate that. 

Todd: And so he has, do you also, do you also have a radio background? I’m curious now. 

Neal: I did some student media work when I was at Virginia tech in the mid 2000s. I started a student media organization because there wasn’t enough room to work for the student paper and ended up.

doing some video work, mostly video work. So I got credential to work in the sports department, got down on the field to shoot football games and interview coaches and players and stuff, got to go to a couple of bowl games, went to the NCAA tournament, interviewed some of the Yankees when they came down to play an exhibition game against our baseball team.

So I had a little bit of experience in front of and behind the camera. 

Todd: That’s fantastic. Fellow journalist, huh? Just like me. There you go. I started, I did journalism in school as well. Yeah. Wow. 

Neal: But all good. All good. We can stay on task. 

Todd: Well, the task today I’m really enjoying because you recommended when you called us on Speakpipe, This movie that I believe you had requested before and we’ve gotten this request from a couple other listeners as well Their names are not in front of me behind the mask the rise of leslie vernon You know when you guys first brought it up I had not heard of this at all and then I kind of looked into it But I didn’t really look into it Like I didn’t go to the imdb and really research it.

I just kind of googled it and it came up And this was years ago. I thought okay. This is some quirky little Odd independent feature that probably, you know, was shot on video and released a video and, and whatever. And so, you know, maybe we’ll come around to it. Maybe we’ll check it out. You know, it sounds like a mockumentary kind of thing.

It could be fun. And then, uh, your recent message. Made us, uh, take another look at it and, uh, then I look, I was like, Oh my God, this movie has a bit of a better pedigree than I originally gave it credit for, which I found unusual because I hadn’t heard of it before. So I’d never seen this before. Like I said, I, it just completely was off my radar, this 2006 movie.

And, uh, here we are talking about this movie almost 20 years later, that feels like it could have been shot, I think, like yesterday. And it has some stars in it. Some people we know. So wow. What a treat this was just to watch it. Thank you. Thank you for recommending it. I’m just going to throw that out there.

I’m so glad 

Neal: you enjoyed it. Craig, what did you think about 

Craig: it? Well, it’s, this is weird. I hadn’t seen it, but the reason that I hadn’t seen it was because. I was mistaking it for something else. For some reason, I was thinking of Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer. I don’t know why that’s, yeah, that’s, I was thinking that’s what this was.

And at some point I had started watching that movie and I didn’t really get into it. And so every time I would hear of Behind the Mask, I’d be like, and I’m not really interested. So when I put it on, I was like, am I wa, this doesn’t seem familiar. Am I watching the right movie? I, I had totally mistaken it for something else.

Gosh, I don’t know. I didn’t love it, but I totally get why people like it and there are so many. Actually, maybe one of the issues that I kind of have with it, it’s a tip of the hat to Super Horror fans, but I wonder like if you’re not a super hardcore fan like us. If you would get it at all, like I thought it was really clever and funny and I loved all the little you know callbacks to different movies and stuff, but I thought if I didn’t get that like if I didn’t If I wasn’t in on that joke, I might just think it was kind of stupid

Really? I could, 

Todd: well, I think I’ve talked about that. When we did Cabin in the Woods where I showed it to my dad and he hated it. He was like, I think this movie’s dumb and it’s really stupid and it’s just mean spirited and stuff. And then I realized, yeah, he doesn’t get it. He doesn’t get any of this stuff.

’cause he doesn’t know the language, you know, he doesn’t know all these conventions. And this whole movie is nothing but poking fun at conventions. So I could see, yeah, I could totally see why this, why, why this probably would go over the heads of people who had not, were not familiar with all those. What about you, Neil?

How did you first come across this one? 

Neal: So I came across it probably a year or two after it came out. So it was still somewhat fresh and semi new. The whole meta horror thing had not been as pervasive in the space as it is now. So I thought it was really interesting. At the time, I was in a relationship with someone who was a theater major and was very into movies like Waiting for Guffman, Best in Show, all the Christopher Guest movies, the mockumentary style movies like that.

Love them. And, and it felt very much like a horror version of Waiting for Guffman. 

Clip: Yeah. 

Neal: And so I was very interested in, in the setup of it, and again, I am a Horror fan, you know, so seeing, you know, they started off and they’re talking about a world where Jason Voorhees is real. Freddy Krueger is real. You see Kane Hodder walking into Nancy’s house on elm street at the very beginning of the movie and you’re like, wait a second.

Like so for me, this is like the first experience that i’m sure people now get watching marvel movies where they’re like, oh, I recognize that. Oh, yeah, you know, so that was my experience with it at first and you’re right It didn’t get I think it came out the same weekend as Dead Silence, the ventriloquist movie, 

Todd: uh, 

Neal: horror movie.

Todd: James Wan, right. 

Neal: Back in 2007. And so, I don’t think that there was anything really competing with it. But, you know, it didn’t make any money, it didn’t, it was a first go out for the director and most of the people in the cast. So I can see why it didn’t make a splash, but I was really disappointed that it didn’t get picked up somewhere else when streaming came out and got another run at it.

Clip: Yeah. 

Neal: Yeah. Well, and I don’t 

Craig: want you or the listener to get me wrong. I really liked it. I thought it was really clever. I loved the structure of it and, and thought that it was something that I don’t recall ever having seen something like this before, where they’re just taking this ridiculous idea of filming a documentary about a wannabe serial killer and like following him through that process.

I don’t recall ever seeing anything like that, but that was really clever. And then I thought that it was really clever when it switched. In the last, I don’t know, third or so to basically a more traditional Slasher. I just, I think that, gosh, I don’t know, just like a casual horror fan, just, I feel like they might not be in on the joke.

I very much was in on the joke, and I thought it was hilarious. 

Clip: Um, but 

Craig: I could see how somebody coming at it, not from that perspective. Background might see Leslie Vernon in his killer costume with that mask, which I love, and I hope that we’ll talk about at length. But there are certain images that I think are meant to be funny.

I just don’t know if a more general audience would be in on the joke, but I myself really enjoyed it, thought it was hilarious, really clever, really well written and obviously made by. people who know horror and who are fans of horror. There’s a lot of fan service and I’m here for it. Absolutely. 

Todd: I totally agree.

You know, it’s interesting because I felt like I thought the movie took a turn, and we’ll talk about that in a second, but I was really surprised. It started out, and I was like, oh, this is cute. Oh, this is clever. This is interesting, but I’m wondering how far can they possibly take this? Because, you know, the conceit is that there is a, and this, I don’t know if I’m, if I should be confused by this, or if I’m thinking too hard about it, but, you know, this is a world where Jason and Freddie, We’re real life events, and so these people at, you know, these things actually happen, they actually exist, and they just talk about them casually.

And they make it almost sound like all this happened in a, down the street from each other. And this woman, Taylor, who’s, again, this is totally documentary style. Who’s on the camera talking about this says and now we get to Leslie Vernon a 24 years ago a boy who was murdered by being thrown over a waterfall And so then when we see Leslie Vernon on camera I’m like is this a supernaturally resurrected Leslie Vernon and we’re just going with that or is that a mythology that was constructed that Now, you know, is his cover for doing all these murders in this way?

Like, how did you guys take it? 

Neal: I was, it was weird to me because when she starts off talking about how these murders took place and were real and so on and so forth, and then she’s going to interview this guy who claims to be the, the person who was thrown off the cliff, you know, as a boy. I had the same, a similar, You know, what is this?

Is this supernatural, or is he truly coming back? And if he is a wannabe serial killer, what is she doing interviewing him instead of calling the cops? But then, I thought I told you my background is in student media, and It’s you see in the super it says university news so You know college students aren’t very bright anyway when they’re just trying to get started You know, so I could see myself being a very very amateur journalist doing a lot of the same things that she was doing Including the really wooden stand up.

Clip: He knows this he says because he himself is the heir apparent to that throne of terror so long held by the likes of Voorhees, Myers, and Kruger. This man’s name is Leslie Vernon. Alright, we

got it. Good job, Taylor. Did that sound forced? I, I, too much like Diane Sawyer, uh, I’m trying to find my own voice. No, it’s 

Neal: tight. And that really kind of set me in for the movie. It’s like, okay, it’s not going to be like this. It’s going to be more of a real thing. But with Leslie himself, I really like that actor.

I don’t know. He set me at ease right at the beginning. So I kind of didn’t question it a lot and just wanted to go with it. 

Todd: Nathan Basile. Basil? I don’t know how you pronounce it. 

Craig: Yeah, he had done some TV. This was his first film, I think. And I really liked him too, but going back to, you know, what is the backstory, you know, is it supernatural?

Is he back from the dead? Well, no. What it comes This is why I think the movie is so smart. What it comes down to is, no, it’s none of those things. Because that’s not really his backstory. It’s just a backstory that he adopted. 

Todd: He’s cop. Okay. And, 

Craig: you know, he says this. I don’t know exactly what he says. He says lots of kind of philosophical things about the nature of these killers or whatever, but the backstory doesn’t really matter.

You just have to have it. And it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not, as you know, as long as people hear it. And so then that makes me think, okay, well, we’re living in a world where the people just talk casually about Freddie and Jason and Chucky and all of these other killers in this world. and maybe the movie is positive, I don’t know.

All of these guys might not be who we thought they were. 

Neal: You know what I’m saying? Exactly, I had heard some folks on other media around this movie talking about how hearing that Chucky was real kind of threw them off and I was thinking, well if you really pay attention to this movie, a lot of it is the work arounds to make it seem supernatural when it’s not.

You know the, the, The cardio line is one of my favorites in the movie. 

Clip: You have no idea how much cardio I have to do. It’s ridiculous. Why so much? Well, you ought to be able to run like a freaking gazelle without getting winded. Plus, there’s that whole thing of Making it look like you’re walking. And everybody else is running their asses off.

Oh, right. And I gotta stay with them. 

Craig: Yeah, that was 

Clip: that was hilarious. 

Craig: I mean, it’s such a great conceit, you know, this documentary thing of the buildup, like obviously in these horror movies, these things just happen. You, you expect them, you basically know what’s going to happen. This movie comments on the formulaic nature of it and how they’re all basically the same.

And it does it in a really funny and. Intelligent way. Gosh, but just walking you through step. You don’t think about Jason planning for days ahead. For this event. Yeah. You know, it’s meant to appear spontaneous and the suggestion that it’s not, I just think is really clever. 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. 

Neal: Like what? What’s Jason doing on Saturday the 14th?

Todd: right? , right? Or Thursday, the twelfth’s. Thursday the 12th. Yeah. So 

Craig: that’s a big day for him. 

Todd: Wednesday the 11th. Yeah. He’s gotta set everything up and he’s gotta set it up to these like conventions that. All the people like him know, like all the serial killers know, this is what you have to do. In a way, it’s, it’s almost pretty modern, it’s like a YouTube tutorial, you know, you have these guys who think they know everything who get on YouTube and say, Alright guys, you want to like invest in the stock market, this is, I’m going to walk you step by step through how you do it.

Or, you want to do X or you want to do Y, like, this is the way, this is the way it’s done. done, you know, it’s, it’s sort of like they have this community that has just also agreed that this is the most efficient and effective way to do it. You know, you got to have the backstory. You got to plant that backstory in their head somewhere at some point, whether you fake a newspaper article like he does and lays it casually on top of some books at the library.

So she’s sure to discover it, you know, and, and then of course, you know, you need to have that. They don’t call it the final girl. What do they say? They say the Survivor girl? Survivor 

Neal: girl. 

Todd: Survivor girl. And I 

Neal: thought that was a clever way to do it because in this world, if it’s real, they’re not talking about final girls in the context of the last one left in a movie.

Clip: Yeah. They’re 

Neal: thinking of it as the person who makes it out alive from these real life events. 

Craig: That is clever. I didn’t Think about that. 

Todd: So we got to have the survivor girl. And then, you know, eventually this, this journalist goes and they visit one of his friends and they’re all talking about it. Like, you know, they’re chatting about sports or, you know, whatever.

Oh, you, you were sure to do that, right? Oh yeah. I remember back in 72 and like this happened with that guy and yada, yada, yada. It’s so funny and it just builds and builds. And in that way, The movie never got boring for me, because I didn’t feel like this conceit was getting played out, you know? I felt like it was just getting a new layer added, a new layer added, a new layer added.

And to go back to what you were saying earlier, Neil, starting to say, about the journalist being kind of naive. At one point, you know, you realize this girl’s in over her head, and I could see it coming, you know? I thought, okay, wait a minute. This movie is either going to go one of two ways, right? It’s going to keep the joke going and it’s just going to be a funny movie.

Or it’s going to start to get deadly serious. And what does that do? How does that going to change the tone? And how do you accommodate for these people going along with him on this killing spree? And that’s the direction they go. And they go at it full force to the point where there’s a scene in there where It almost seems like the girl real either realizes for the first time or at least as she’s been putting it to the back of her mind, but she’s forced to confront for the first time the idea that they’re going to accompany him as he executes this plan that he’s been talking about for the last 30 minutes, and he’s been walking them through.

And now she’s got this moral dilemma. And then I was thinking, Okay, this movies really get interesting now. And for me, a little uncomfortable. Well, 

Neal: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there’s that moment where the crew meets, I guess I’m trying to jump it around, they meet Doc Holleran. 

Todd: Oh, Doc Holleran, yeah. 

Neal: Yeah, played by Robert Englund from Nightmare uh, Freddy Krueger.

What? 

Todd: That was crazy. Ha ha 

Neal: ha ha ha. And after they meet him, Leslie corners him outside, or meets him outside, and was like, Hey, I told I told you, don’t go talk to my survivor girl. And he gets real sinister at that point, you know, like he He kind of flips the switch for just a minute And violent not just sinister very violent.

Yeah, like very menacing And they’re like, oh this guy is actually serious He’s not just some wacko that you know Just follows serial killers and wants to be like them like this guy is actually dangerous And I think that the movie needed that to hammer home the point like this is this is going to take a turn at some Point and we really need to not get too attached to the fun side of leslie vernon You 

Craig: Yeah, but I think for me that is the most compelling part of this movie is that I liked him 

Clip: Yeah 

Craig: Guys, spoiler alert.

He kind of dies at the end. Maybe question mark. We can talk about it later But in that moment like in his death scene, I was sad Yeah, I didn’t like I was like, oh I mean, he’s basically a nice guy. 

Todd: Well, that’s kind of the brilliance of this. And I, I went back and I read, I don’t know if you guys found this interview that, uh, Nathan Basil.

Did the guy who played him back in 2013 what he mentions here He said that he had a totally different take on the character than any of the other actors who came out there He said that the way that it was written on page and the way everybody had read it This guy was just like a big mean evil guy who every now and then said some funny things and he said that you know He came in really pretty strong with the director and was like look no, man I want to take it this way and he had this affable Take on it that we see in the movie.

And I think that is kind of the key to what makes this movie work. I think. Because you, you immediately, you’re almost on his side, and you, you take him more seriously because of it, because he has an actual ethos, kind of behind what he’s doing, that disturbingly is totally not unlike the ethos of serial killers, terrorists, you know, people who are, you know.

actually out in the world doing things. He specifically calls out, like, the Unabomber. 

Craig: Sure, sure, but, eh, crazy people like that, but also just anybody with ambition who doesn’t care who they leave in their wake. Right. You know what I’m saying? Like, that could be anybody. That could be business people, politicians, you know, people who are ravaging others.

It’s true. For their own personal gain. Ambition. I don’t know, maybe that, maybe that’s too, yeah. 

Todd: Well, no, I mean, I agree with you. That’s, that’s part of it. But like, I think the other part of it that I thought was so compelling was that this guy really feels like he’s like, he’s like doing God’s work, 

Clip: right?

Every culture, every civilization from the dawn of man has had its monsters. For good to be pitied against evil, you have to have evil. Don’t you? 

Neal: And then later in the very last interactions between Leslie and the crew, before things kind of take their, their final turn, 

Clip: I made a choice. I made a choice to provide a counterbalance to all those things that we hold good and pure.

You chose journalism. Okay. 

Todd: That was hilarious. I laughed so hard at that line. I literally laughed out loud. And I don’t laugh out loud at much, but I laughed out loud at that line so hard. 

Neal: It was delivered so earnestly too. I looked at his background. He’s from, he trained at Juilliard. 

Clip: Yeah. 

Neal: So he brought a lot of really unique aspects to this character and the portrayal.

Right? It doesn’t It tracks completely that he would do a completely different take on the presentation for this character, including the character of Leslie, the slasher, the monster, um, barefoot was his idea was Nathan basil’s idea. They never had a barefoot slasher killer before, and they thought that it would make him seem even more kind of otherworldly or feral.

Um, Yeah, feral, that’s a great word. Yeah. If, if he was thrown over a cliff as a boy, the whole aesthetic of the Leslie Vernon slasher Kind of brings that up. He’s wearing overalls, the mask. We can talk about the mask. It’s very childlike on the director’s commentary. I think that they call that version the boy he’s Leslie when he’s regular Nathan out there talking with Taylor and stuff, but when he goes into his killer mode, they call that the boy.

Todd: Yeah. And it’s kind of, it’s, it’s, it’s a little bit reminiscent of Jason when, when at the end of the first Friday, the 13th, when he comes out of the, you know, he’s kind of got that extended forehead and. He’s a little deformed. You know what I’m talking about? That was, that was something I thought of when I saw that, that mask.

Craig: Yeah, I don’t know, like, it just felt very kind of amorphous, like, almost like it was made out of, like, Play Doh or something. Yeah. What, I don’t know, I don’t, you probably know. Kind of Uncanny Valley. Yeah, a little bit of a porcelain Elvador Dali melting clocks kind of look to it. 

Neal: But because it was great.

Oh, I’m sorry. 

Craig: I just, yeah, I was just going to say, I thought that the look was great and I totally 100 percent agree with you that that is an excellent show of talent in that when he is in the mask, he’s different. And not even just in the mask. There’s a moment later where, you know, somebody takes his mask off while he’s still in killer mode, but very different, but at the same time, I totally bought it.

Like I, I believe this guy is a character. I believed him when he was talking to the crew outside and was like, look, you guys. Can go or you can stay, but I’ve got to do my thing. And this is going to end up one way or another for me, either way. And he communicated with them on that level, but then when they made the decision to stay, okay, well now I’m Leslie Vernon, the killer.

So sorry. Gosh, I don’t want to get too deep into it, but like the duality of his character. I totally bought. And I thought he did a great job portraying it. 

Todd: I also don’t want to get too deep, but in a way, I felt like I could relate to it a little bit. Not that I want to go out and kill anybody, but like, all of us who are horror fans at some stage of our lives or another are questioning, Why are we into this stuff?

There’s almost sort of a duality. I feel like there’s this odd duality to my personality that I can’t quite reconcile. Like, people who meet me, people who know me, have known me for years or whatever, like, obviously they know I’m into horror, but, and, but it just, it seems very incongruous to them that this guy who, you know, wouldn’t hurt a fly is really into this dark stuff, dark music, all that kind of stuff.

And I don’t show it on my face, you know, I don’t go out wearing the t shirts, you know, and we’ve talked about it on the podcast too. What is horror? Why do we like horror? Why? Do perfectly normal and sane people enjoy watching this terrible stuff. And then we also have a lot of movies that, that mind that, right?

Like funny games and that are constantly challenging us. Like, why do you watch this stuff and considered entertainment? And in a way, I feel like in this movie, Leslie Vernon is sort of the embodiment of that, except he’s the extreme. He’s not into horror. He’s into killing people. Otherwise he thinks this is just, this is my job.

You know, this is life, this is, uh, required to restore the balance, and, and I take it very seriously, and also, you know, ha ha ha, we can joke, and I, we can be laughable, and I, and, and you like me as well. It’s very uncomfortable, in a way. 

Neal: Mm hmm, totally. Totally. 

Todd: You know, that’s really what the movie is up to that point, is just this continuous gag of him walking them through his preparation.

As though we were watching, you know, following Jason. And Jason was just like, okay, well, here’s where I halfway break the board so that when she runs up the stairs, she’s going to fall into this one. That’s going to slow her down. And, you know, this is what I do here. And this is how I make them discover my backstory that is.

Lots of fun. 

Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he it’s gosh, I mean, he is, we know from the beginning that he is the killer, but he’s also kind of at the same time, the Randy from screen, like he’s the one who’s walking you through step by step the things that we already know, you know, like any one of us. Could have walked you through the steps.

I mean, there were things that I had never thought of before. Like, I don’t know. I guess the final girl grabbing a big, long, hard weapon. Okay, sure. All right, fine. Yeah. And then I don’t even. I wrote it down, but I’m not going to scan through my notes to find it like the opposite of phallic, like, like vaginal.

Yeah, there you go. Like you have to have that imagery to like the, the final girl has to go through that. You know, like she has to be reborn as this new strong person. Okay. Like I don’t know that I’ve ever thought about it that closely, but the way that he lays out the formula is accurate. And I thought it was great, but what I was really kind of more interested in, in that part, aside from the fact that he was very charismatic and I was a big fan of his was the documentary side of it, which you guys have kind of hinted at a little bit, but I’m really interested to hear specifically you guys perspective because this Taylor girl.

It’s her. She’s the one in front of the camera. And then she’s got like three guys behind her and you barely see them at all until the last third, when they get in front of the camera, but she’s played by Angela Goethals. Did you guys recognize her from anything? Home Alone, perhaps? Ha ha ha 

Neal: ha ha! Yeah, that was, that was great.

She has an interesting look, and I was like, I’ve seen this girl somewhere before, and it wasn’t until I knew immediately who it 

Todd: was. This looks like an older, not even an older version of her. Like, just somebody, like, blew her face up and made her, like, into a 

Craig: twenty something. In, in, in my house, like, Alan and, uh, My sister and I too, because my sister and I grew up watching it.

We will say to each other at least a couple of times a year. You know what the French say? Les incompetants.

So that was a little distracting. However, I loved the concept of them filming this documentary, but Todd, I feel like you and I briefly talked about it when we talked about creep 400 episodes ago, 

Todd: um, literally 

Craig: how like, okay. So, so you get into this and you’re a journalist and by nature of being a journalist, you are meant to be an observer.

You are not meant to be. An active participant, right? I’m a little confused because she knew this guy wanted to be like the next Jason or Freddy or whatever. So she knew his ultimate objective was to kill people. At what point was she no longer going to participate in that? Because it seemed like it caught her by surprise 

Todd: near the end.

I don’t know, how do you interpret that? I think I said it earlier, the way I interpreted it was, it was probably always an uncomfortable question that she was constantly pushing to the back of her, of her head, and not really willing to face until that moment came, just because, you know, she’s a little naive.

But I don’t know, Neil? 

Neal: Yeah, I thought she was going at it from the perspective of, he’s obviously not somebody that came back from the dead. He’s interested in these real life killers and stuff, and he claims to be the next in line for their legacy. But, he can’t be serious if he’s calling me to showcase this stuff, so let’s see what he, what he says.

Insight he can provide on this and maybe We’re doing some good in that we can learn some things that almost like profiling I guess, you know Here’s a look inside the mind of a person who would want to do these kind of things and if we can bring that to Light maybe we can help save some lives or something.

That’s that’s the best I can square it in my head But at the same time time, like I said, she’s A college journalist with her college journalist buddies, and I’ve done some really dumb Look on location shoots and yeah trying to trying to do more than I’ve got any business and experience trying to do So, yeah, that’s the best I can square it.

So 

Todd: you’re thinking she didn’t ultimately think he was going to actually start to go through with it. 

Neal: Yeah, I thought she was waiting for the twist too. Like, okay, he’s telling me all of this stuff, but he can’t possibly be serious. 

Craig: He seems like a really nice guy. Right. 

Neal: Yeah, he’s disarming in that way. And she just gets Sucked into his all his field.

Clip: Yeah, 

Craig: I can’t imagine 

Neal: they like him too. 

Craig: Yeah, I can imagine getting sucked in Ultimately, it’s not really just her like she has a three man crew. So Yes, he’s a strong guy, but she’s not by herself. So there’s not that physical threat and he just so is so Endearing and I thought that that also extended When he basically took her home to meet his parents.

They’re not his parents. They’re just You This older couple that he knows, but it’s like his mentor. Yeah. Yeah. Is that Eugene? Is that what his name 

Neal: is 

Craig: supposed to be? And, okay guys, I’m sure you read this. It’s no surprise to you. If this is true that he was supposed to be Billy from Black Christmas, I’m not sure why they didn’t call that out.

They called everything out. 

Neal: Yeah, they wrote it as that. And then they thought that that would probably be a bridge, a bridge too far, so they didn’t. They, they allude to it, but they don’t confirm it. It’s, it’s just funny to me that that’s a bridge too far, like. 

Clip: Right? 

Neal: Okay. I don’t know, maybe there’s, maybe there was some intellectual property that they could Yeah, that could, yeah.

I don’t know. Sure, sure. Maybe, yeah. I thought that Scott Wilson character, Eugene, really. Helped add another layer and grounds the movie and makes it feel like yeah, this actually could it helps flesh out the universe 

Clip: Yeah, oh gosh, 

Neal: it lends credence to These things happening. Yeah, they talk about Freddy.

They talk about Jason, but here’s a guy who also Participated in that world of, of killing, made it out, and he is living a life afterwards. And his wife, Jamie, 

Todd: apparently 

Neal: was his survivor girl. Okay, I wasn’t sure. Oh 

Craig: really? I didn’t catch that. I thought that was alluded to, like I thought that at some point some, they had some kind of quip about chasing, like, well you finally caught me, or something like that.

Neal: Yeah, Taylor asks, how do you survive an encounter with you guys? And he says, you know, You, you pick a spot as far away as you can and you run towards it and you don’t stop running until you see daylight. And Jamie kind of. Elbows him in the ribs and it’s like, I was pretty fast, wasn’t I? And, and he was like, yeah, and you caught me or some, or one of them says, yeah, you caught me.

So it kind of implies that she was, uh, 

Todd: being chased by him at some point. I love that. Over my head completely. 

Craig: I, I, I kinda caught it. I thought that that’s what it must be because she, she doesn’t seem a lot younger than him, but she seems a little bit and she’s very beautiful. Gosh. Yes. Yeah. She’s she’s gorgeous.

But before that, before he says something about picking a spot and running, they’re both giving advice and her advice is don’t hang out with virgins.

I thought that was so funny. And like, if, if you’re hanging out with the Virgin, get some. Somebody in her pants or get out of there. 

Neal: That’s just good life advice. 

Craig: Oh my gosh. And there were tons. Uh, seriously, if, if, if you are a fan of horror at all, really, you really should watch this movie because it’s a really, really clever horror comedy.

And I’m not trying to wrap up cause there’s still a million things. I want to talk about the first one that comes to mind. I’m sorry, Neil. This is me rambling again. It’s been the only thing that’s been on my mind since we started talking. And I insist that I get it out that Zelda Rubinstein is in this movie.

So great. 

Todd: Her last movie before she died. What a 

Craig: treasure. 

Neal: She’s great. Like, she instantly, she nails her part. Her job is to communicate the lore, to help bring the survivor girl into the world that Leslie is trying to create. And she does it beautifully. It’s the first time we see Leslie in the mask.

Holloran appears and has any kind of meaningful interaction. It’s just that there’s so much that happens within that scene. It’s great. 

Craig: And it’s set up so well, like we know how it’s going to be set up because Leslie explains it to us, like, I’m going to plant this and then she’s going to find it. And then she’s going to talk to the librarian and the librarian is going to tell her the story, but then she’s going to say, Oh, don’t worry.

It’s just a story. And, and then that’s exactly what happens. with Zelda Rubenstein. Gosh, like I, I remember hearing when she passed away, but it’s been a long time ago. It was probably before we started the podcast. Otherwise we definitely would have done a tribute. Uh, I just, she is so funny to me. And of course I love her in the poltergeist movies.

She was in like, 16 candles to, I think, oh, Teen Witch. Don’t want to forget Teen Witch. Teen Witch. But also here, like, she’s just being Zelda Rubenstein. Like, she’s being Tangina from Poltergeist. And that was a huge highlight for me. She gives you everything you 

Neal: want from an appearance from her. 

Craig: Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. Except, I feel like I blinked and I missed when he killed her. Did he cut her 

Neal: throat? So, the cut, the editing is weird there. It, it almost feels like maybe she might have fainted. I don’t know. Yeah, I wasn’t sure. Because there was no consequence after that. Like, if you think, if they killed the librarian, there’d be, like, that’s where Taylor and her crew would be like, Oh wait, this is real.

Craig: And Kelly seems fine after it, like it’s, 

Neal: she gets over it really quick. The whole universe didn’t seem to mourn the loss of Zelda very 

Clip: much. 

Neal: And I think her name in the movie was Miss Collinwood, which is the castle from Dark Shadows. Like, I’m telling you, like, real deep horror trivia. They, the writers of this inserted stuff all over the place that were not I 

Craig: caught only a few of them.

I caught when there were some girls in, like, baptismal gowns doing jump rope in the 

Neal: back. I’m glad you saw that in the background 

Craig: of the, uh, college 

Neal: scene. 

Todd: Right at the beginning. 

Craig: I noticed that. I mean, the ones in the very beginning are, you know, Like, they call them out. Like, they specifically show you the house on Elm Street.

They specifically show you Haddonfield. They specif It’s not like it’s clever, but there are things There are other ones that I read about that I definitely didn’t see. Like, I guess in Eugene’s house on a table, there’s a lament configuration from Hellraiser. Certainly did not see that. 

Neal: Yep, it looks like a tissue box sitting on the, uh, table.

Craig: Were 

Neal: there, 

Craig: were there 

Neal: others 

Craig: that, cause I love that 

Neal: stuff. Yeah the turtles are named Zoe and Chance. Sorry, Zoe and Church, which are the pets from Pet Sematary 1 and 2. Right, 

Clip: right, 

Neal: right. Yeah, so there’s stuff like that just sprinkled throughout. Doc Halloran is named after Dick Halloran from 

Clip: The Shining.

Oh yeah, right. 

Neal: When Leslie’s putting on his makeup, the flame retardant makeup. Where they show that scene he’s sitting in front of the mirror, and he’s talking to Taylor about it. He makes a face that is an homage to Donald Sutherland in Invasion of the Body Snatchers. 

Clip: Oh, 

Neal: I didn’t guess that one. 

Clip: Yeah, yeah, 

Neal: he makes the same face that he make that Donald Sutherland makes when he points and he’s, you know, revealed himself as a pod person.

So there’s there’s stuff throughout that just if if you’re looking for it, or if you’re like me and just a complete weirdo about it, you seek those out and catch them. So I’m glad some of that stuff actually, like, Still came across like the kids, the nightmare kids doing the jump rope in the background.

Oh, I loved 

Craig: it. I, I loved that. And, and for the most part, I mean, again, points to make sure we talk about, we may as well do it now. You mentioned Doc Halloran played by Robert England, like, yes. How, I don’t know. I didn’t do enough research on like, how did this director get. All of these icons, you’ve got Freddy Krueger, you’ve got Jason Voorhees, you’ve got Tangina.

I know Tangine is not as big a get but like, seriously, Robert England. I kind of wish that they had done more with him. I thought it was hilarious what they did. I thought that it was hilarious that they made him a Dr. Loomis clone. 

Clip: You know where he is, don’t you? He’s not who you think he is. What’s he calling himself now?

Leslie Vernon? How perfect. I, I, I don’t know. I don’t know who that is. His name is Leslie Mancuso. From Reno, Nevada. You have no idea who you’re dealing 

Craig: with. That was great. I wish he would maybe have been a little bit more in it, but still he’s behind the scenes. I loved that. 

Neal: Yeah, he’s the ahab That was such a great Convention that they played on there, right?

You know every serial killer needs somebody to come after him It legitimizes their work and it it really kind of adds another layer to it But uh, so there’s a great behind the scenes interview with robert englund where he talks about the How he came across this script and he says, you know, when you’ve been in the business as long as I have, you get sent scripts all the time.

Some of them are good. Some of them are not so good. And I was watching, I was reading this one in the middle of the evening, got late night TV on my wife is cooking dinner or whatever. And next thing you know, it’s two o’clock in the morning. I’m still reading it and I couldn’t put it down. So he, he loved the script and it’s because of him that they got Scott Wilson.

And so, Uh, the Eugene character, uh, he called him up and said, you’ve got to come and do this. You’d be perfect for it. And Wilson, same deal. He, he thinks that they should have turned this into a play and done this on the road. 

Todd: Oh, it’s interesting. 

Craig: Well, it’s, it’s definitely, I don’t know if I could see it on stage, especially the last act, which we haven’t really talked a lot about, but I, the first part, especially I could see how it could be a play because it feels very much like a character study.

It feels a lot like creep. Frankly, except for instead of just one guy with a camera following a weirdo around. It’s a crew of people following a weirdo around and endearing weirdo. But, but then the third act I thought was. I thought that that was exactly, you know, he, it played out exactly as he said it would.

Mostly are we to believe that Leslie knew that Taylor was the final girl from the beginning? Cause if so, that’s pretty impressive, I guess. 

Neal: Yeah, I think, I think from the very beginning he knew, he knew all of it was going to play out exactly that way, including Taylor. Her crew having the change of heart and trying to help save the kids instead of participate in the event.

I 

Craig: hope that you’re right and I believe that you are because I think that that’s the most interesting way to take the story. And again, I know I’ve already mentioned it, but going back to that conversation where they have shown I think a little bit of reluctance and he says to them, look, you guys should leave.

I’ve got to do what I got to do. Like, I, I feel like he gives them an out. 

Todd: Yeah. Well, he kind of gives each one of them like a farewell. Yeah. He’s kind of very intentional about it. 

Craig: Well, and I, and I think that that that’s fair. Like they know who he is. They know what he’s going to do. And if they try to interfere.

And I think that he was a good, a good bro for giving him a heads up. He, he, 

Neal: he wished them luck and then one of the cameramen says, you too.

Todd: And then like a boss, Taylor jumps in the room with him and they’re, and I mean, I’m just sitting here thinking, how are they going to stay out of the way while he does this? I was just so into the movie at this point because it, I did not expect it to go this far and it started to get really disturbing because now this team is here going to ostensibly, well, are they going to tape these murders, you know, how are they going to cut it into their documentary?

Like, these are some real actual moral dilemmas here that they’re going on. And so they’re in the room next door while like two of the people from downstairs or upstairs screwing in the bedroom. Um, And he goes in and hack, hack, hack, and you hear it all happen off screen. Taylor’s obviously disturbed and the guy, I think one of the guys turns to her and goes, Oh shit, this is really happening.

Should I be getting any of this?

Oh my God. 

Neal: Yeah. Good job, cameraman. I don’t know if that was Doug or Todd, 

Todd: but, 

Neal: uh, 

Todd: I appreciated that there was still some levity to this, but it was getting pretty serious and I was disturbed and I was really into it. And now I’m thinking, okay, are they going to be in danger if they try to interfere? What happens if they pop their cameras in and then it startles one of the other people and turns them onto Leslie?

Leslie gets angry and then turns on them. You know, there’s just so many different ways this could go. And one of the things that the film does, which I think is really, really smart, is it switches. Suddenly, when it becomes about the journalists and everything, we’re in movie mode. There’s like documentary mode, where everything’s through the camera, and the cameramen are behind, and it looks, you know, shot on video, and the whole nine yards, and shaky cam.

But then, there are a couple moments. First, early on, there are just a couple of them. But as soon as we’ve had this switch and when it’s about the journalist, now the movie looks like a slasher movie. It’s lit like a slasher movie. It, the cinematography is like a slasher movie. And now we’re watching 

Craig: it.

Let me jump in just really quick with an example. My favorite example of that was when they were showing that archway outdoors, it was the opposite of phallic imagery, like the outdoor that she had to walk. Okay. Yeah. So, so when they. Film it through the documentary. Of course, it’s very beautiful. It’s a beautiful set piece.

But then later when it’s not the documentary anymore in the film, the lighting, it looks like pet cemetery or something like, so yes, I think that’s very, very clever filmmaking that I mentioned earlier, the structure, but just the difference between the documentary feel and then the film. feel of the end.

Todd: It upped the production value of this movie tremendously. Like up to those moments, you know, it just sort of seemed like this was another found footage type movie shot on a low budget. But then when it gets into the movie thing, it looks, it looks just as slick as any slasher movie from the nineties or early 2000s.

It looks just like it. And so I thought it gave the movie a lot of cred too. You know what I mean? 

Neal: I think so. I, I, I totally get that. The use of two. Cameramen to document what was happening was also kind of a really good cheater convention, I guess. They said that one of the cameramen would intentionally shoot kind of dutch style with the the angles and stuff and the other one Would shoot more straight on so you could get alternate angles based on which cameraman was shooting it But then you also It didn’t just feel like a single cam the whole way through, like you could get those cuts in between from different perspectives of the same action that you would get from a normal movie, but then it would look much better when they cut to that cinematic version of the film.

And there’s no score on the documentary parts, but anytime they do, like Leslie, Talking through a hypothetical scenario. Those parts would have a score to it when they did the opening scene 

Clip: With 

Neal: the girl throwing the trash away in the dumpster that part has some music laid over it So it really kind of helps get you.

All right here. We’re watching the movie here. We’re watching the documentary here. We’re watching the movie 

Todd: Yeah, it was I didn’t really score, but you’re right. I mean it was definitely there. Yeah, you’re right 

Neal: Yeah for a first time director, I think they they really got the most out of their money for this 

Todd: I think so, too.

I was super I 

Neal: do too

Craig: This happens all the time, but like, uh, I watch a movie and I’m like, I’m not really exactly sure how I feel about it. And then I sit down and talk about it. And here I am an hour later. I’m like, no, it’s great. You should watch it.

It’s great. There’s so much going on. There’s so many good things about it, but I agree with you. I’m not, I don’t know. I didn’t hear of it either. And I usually have. My eye on the industry, I feel like I kind of have my finger on the pulse. What I, what I have heard is, you know, in the years since it’s come out, it definitely has a following.

Like there are people out there who are big fans of this movie and are like, watch this movie. And I only didn’t because I mistook it. But also I knew when it was over. Okay. So there’s a setup for the ending. It all ends with a cider press, 

Todd: an apple cider press. We knew that was coming and 

Craig: the final girl and the bad guy with his head in the cider press.

But again, like that was an emotional scene for me. Like it was just a closeup on his face. Face, what does he say? He says something I’m, so 

Neal: glad you were the one or something or I just knew you were going to be the one 

Craig: You 

Neal: guys it’s a love story

They have so many Tight, emotional, like, fleeting moments where you’re like, Oh, these two are into each other. And then, and then it, And then the things move. 

Todd: But, I’ve got a question for you guys on this, on this last bit. Like, do you think that was part of his preparation too? That he wouldn’t actually be killed by the Cider Press?

Or was he killed by the Cider Press? The way I interpret it, because he points out this, Oh yeah, I’ve got big plans for the Cider Press at the end. And assuming everything went according to his plan, She kills him in the Cider Press, Or thinks she kills him in the Cider Press, Because later during the And then burns him up, burns up Oh, burns up the Yeah, and then sets fire to everything, right?

Which is classic. So Then, as you said earlier, Craig, there’s a post credits scene where his body is pulled out and the guy who’s getting ready to do the autopsy or whatever, prep the body, his back is turned to him, and just as the credits are about to end, you see him sit up, which we all saw coming, it follows the convention, but it makes me think that maybe, again, all of the stuff that he’s been doing has been to follow convention, so I wondered if, too, he had prepared himself to fake his death and resurrect himself again.

Did you guys think that at all? 

Neal: I did, and it was because of him mentioning, when he was putting on the makeup, that it was a mixture of Preparation H and his own homemade fire retardant. 

Craig: Yes! Right! 

Neal: So he knew that he was going to get burnt up at some point. And so he had planned for that and then This is not in the movie.

This is something I saw later But either the director or one of the producers posted on tiktok or something how? Leslie faked his death. 

Clip: Oh while 

Neal: he’s how while he’s in the cider press it cuts to a Underneath the cider press, his hand reaches under and grabs a nutcracker and cracks a walnut at the same time that Taylor spins the thing.

So, she doesn’t go back to check. The original intent was the mask would shatter under the weight of the thing, pressing on him. But they, this little clip, it’s like a 15 second clip, but it shows, you know, him Getting his head put into the cider press her twisting twisting and then it cuts to this shot of his hand reaching under Grabbing this walnut cracker and then she does the final spin and you hear the crunch and then it cuts away Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 

Craig: Man That’s funny 

Clip: Oh, 

Craig: it is really clever.

I was just under the impression. Cause he says at one point, this night’s going to end one of three ways. Like either I’m going to be on the run or I’m going to be on death row or I’m going to be dead or something like that. So I think that he was prepared for. He knew that he might be bested. And I felt like in that moment at the end, he was like, well, if this is the way that it was going to happen, I’m glad it was you like, it’s even though, you know, it’s, it’s still, even for him, a satisfying ending now, whether or not he planned it or whether or not he knew that he would rise again, I mean, he probably thought he might cause they always do, or maybe, maybe they always have a nutcracker or Something that fakes their death.

I don’t know, but 

Neal: I was gonna say I heard that they had actually shot a different ending where Taylor is on Trial for the events that happened on that night. 

Clip: Oh 

Neal: Uh, because, you know, she’s the only one, she’s the primary survivor. Somebody had to do all of these murders and stuff, so she’s on, on trial, but they, they ended up not keeping it because they didn’t have enough people.

They wanted the courtroom to really feel full and stuff, but the way they had shot it was that Taylor’s on trial. They’ve got a live feed of the coroner’s office, the feed that we see. And Doc Halloran bursts in and it’s like, you guys don’t know what you’re doing. He’s planned this the whole time. This is what he wants.

He needs an audience. He needs an audience. And that’s when you see him sit up 

Clip: Take out 

Neal: the coroner and then swipe the camera and then that’s how the movie ends That would have been kind of glad they didn’t go with that It’s I mean, it’s cool, but i’m glad they didn’t go with that. I think that you can actually see a plot Like, two seconds of that, in one of the trailers, you see Robert Englund yelling, He needs an audience!

Clip: Um, 

Neal: it’s in one, one trailer that’s still floating around out there. But they said they didn’t keep it because they couldn’t have enough people to make the courtroom look believable. If he’s terrorized this whole town, you, you would probably want. Or if somebody has terrorized this whole town and is using the town’s legend as a backdrop for committing a bunch of murders, you’d think that the courtroom would be fully 

Todd: packed up.

I mean, the reason I think it would be cool is because I was kind of waiting for the Doc Hallorann character to come back in and do something at the end, you know, kind of like in Halloween, you know, where he walks out. Michael Myers’s body is suddenly not there. You know, I thought there would be some moment anyway for him to kind of have a last thing instead of well, he’s alive and he kind of limps away and then that’s the last you see of him.

Craig: His whole role is very much a cameo. He has maybe, what, one or two lines. I don’t know. Still happy 

Neal: to see him. Still fun. Yeah, and he’s why I made the suggestion, because he just got his star on the Walk of Fame. 

Todd: That’s right! Yeah. Well deserved. Very well deserved, that star. What 

Neal: did you think of the use of, uh, Psycho Killer over the final credits?

Clip: I 

Neal: loved it. What a perfect 

Clip: song. 

Neal: I have had that in my head. All week because of this, I can’t stop playing it and humming it. Well, the 

Todd: movie sets itself up for a sequel and supposedly they, they did write script, but what I read, and I don’t remember how long ago this was, um, the director just kind of reevaluated and said, look, if we were to shoot this, a sequel to this, obviously we want the right script and the sequel script that we already wrote.

It’s too dated. by now because I don’t know, it’s kind of like more going to be referencing the torture porn era and the found footage and stuff like that. And that’s so far behind us now that I think they were like, that would, that would feel too dated if we did that now. Thankfully, the slasher thing is not still not dated, right?

Like that seems like pretty evergreen. So this movie, like I said, it feels like it could have been shot yesterday. And the reason why I like and I recommend it is because I do get a little tired of the meta horror movies. Just because I get it now, you know, like how many ways can you tell me the same things?

You know, how many ways can you rattle off the conventions to me and then ha ha I see that you subvert them Or something like that This movie just does it in a totally different way I’ve never seen and in a way that you know from that perspective of us being behind the the killer in this very mundane Sort of way And also him being so affable and all that and the layers that we’ve just kind of brought up in in here I just Thought this movie was so clever and so fun.

I was just with it the whole time and I loved it and I can’t believe I hadn’t seen it and I can’t believe that the reason I hadn’t seen it is not popular. People don’t know about it. What the hell? How do people not know about this movie? So my recommendation is you guys are listening to this podcast.

You’re as big a horror fan as we are. You are going to be the people who are going to eat this up and it’s going to be a very different kind of metal horror than you’ve seen before. You got to give it a try and you got to go out and watch it. It’s great. 

Neal: Yep. You can find it on YouTube. The whole movie streaming.

Todd: That’s where we watch it. Yeah, good quality. We’re all about free. 

Neal: Good quality. Perfect quality. Even the the gratuitous boob shot in there is intact. 

Craig: I’m so glad you brought it up. It was on my list. I think he just crossed off the page. 

Neal: I want to make sure that that got mentioned because I don’t want anybody to be caught off guard.

Craig: Oh god and the like it comments on itself like oh my god isn’t that a little gratuitous as she’s popping her nipples out.

Oh, so good. So good. Good job. Good job. No, I’m, 

Neal: I’m so You should, 

Craig: you should host a 

Neal: podcast. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Maybe I’ll bring one back at some point. You know, I’m happy to come on and chat with you guys at any time. If you got other movies and you just feel you want to break things up a little bit.

Feel free, give me a call. I will Oh 

Craig: man, it was a great time. It’s been a pleasure having you on 

Neal: the show. Thank you guys so much, and thank you for all the years of great content. Thank you for doing my suggestions. You guys got me with Once Bitten, and Anna and the Apocalypse, and this is probably the third or fourth suggestion that I’ve gotten.

given you guys, that you guys have done. So I can’t say enough how much I appreciate it. 

Todd: Wow. That’s true. Neil’s been feeding the fire more than I remember.

Craig: I remember, I, I remember how excited Todd and I were about Anna and the Apocalypse, like neither of us We’re like, holy 

Neal: shit! 

Craig: Why have 

Todd: we not heard this one before? 

Neal: It’s like Christmas movie, horror movie, musical. Come on now, how has this not been done before? 

Todd: You’re our research wing. Oh 

Neal: I will, I’ll shoot you guys whatever I can think of that would be a fun watch and a fun conversation.

Todd: Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Neil. And thank you all your listeners out there for joining us for yet another week. We really appreciate each and every one of you. If you want to leave us a message like Neil did, all you’ve got to do is go to our website, ChainsawHorror. com And there’s a little link at the top that says talk to us.

You can leave us a quick message. You don’t have to download any special software or anything like that. And, uh, and that’ll shoot right to us. And we, we listen to those. We respond to those. We love hearing from you in whatever form that takes. You can also leave us a message on any one of our places. Uh, just two guys in a chainsaw podcast.

We’ll take you to our website where there’s a comment section. We’ll take you to our Facebook page where we post stuff up on Instagram. Also, our Patreon, patreon. com slash, uh, Chainsaw Podcast. If you go there, you will also have a chance to get behind the scenes like Neil has himself and become part of the crew.

Chat, chat back there, uh, vote on the requests that we have coming up. A lot of good stuff going on behind the scenes. Please consider supporting us back there as well. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. And I’m Neil. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw

Halloween 2024 is at hand! No better film for this week than this family-friendly Netflix release. It’s dumb and corny and predictable, but the SFX are fantastic, it’s adequately scary-yet-kid-friendly, and just chock-full of Halloween fun.

New kid moves into a new town and unleashes ancient magic from an artifact she found in the attic of her historic house. Sound familiar? Despite an under-utilized cast of stars, groan-worthy cliches and flat jokes, there’s some easygoing magic at work here that will appeal to kids and adults alike who can handle the surprisingly scary Halloween decorations that come to life as fodder for Marlon Wayans’ chainsaw.

The Curse of Bridge Hollow (2022)

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Happy Halloween! 

Craig: It’s your Halloween voice again. Happy Halloween to you. 

Todd: It’s more of a slogan than a voice. It only says those words. 

Craig: Next year. Next year you can monologue or something. I don’t know. Yeah, it’s exciting.

Honestly, like, I love Christmas. Don’t get me wrong, and we’ll totally celebrate Christmas too, but I think that I feel more about Halloween the way most people feel about Christmas. Like, it’s my favorite. Holiday. I just love everything about it. Same here. And I love that my neighbors across the street have like a whole geta like they’ve got like a, a graveyard set up and they’ve got skeletons walking skeleton dogs and they’ve The Nightmare Before Christmas projection on their house.

Todd: Oh nice. You do live in a neighborhood and a town, really, that, that still hasn’t, you know, still put some effort into, you know, decorating the house, I assume, you know, you get some trick or treaters here and there, but I think the last Halloween I had there, I maybe had three. Five groups of trick or treaters come to the door all night long, and I was super depressed.

Craig: Yeah, trick or treating is not as much a thing anymore. I think that some Gen Xers, you know, are still trying to hang on to it for their kids, but it’s mostly, it’s mostly trunk or treats, which is nice, but it’s not the same. 

Todd: You know, I’m double irritated at the trunk or treat. Number one, it’s lame compared to the real deal.

And number two, it’s sort of born out of this false narrative that trick or treating is dangerous. I 

Craig: know, I know. We talk about this all the time. We are so precious about kids these days. And I get it, I get it. You gotta make sure your kids are safe. But we managed to survive somehow. Anyway, whatever. Yeah.

I love Halloween. Yes. And you’re right, in, in my town, first of all, my neighborhood is very residential. My house especially is on a street that’s like an interior street. Like, there’s no reason for you to be on my street unless you live on it. 

Todd: Yeah, so get off my lawn.

Craig: I just mean practically. Right, I know what 

Todd: you 

Craig: mean. Hahaha. So there’s, there’s very little traffic and, and my neighborhood is, uh, You know, middle class families and yeah, people are still really into it. The people across the street from me have the best display. Most people just put out a lot of inflatables.

I like the spirit of inflatables, but 

Todd: it’s lazy. It feels lazy. 

Craig: I like, I appreciate the spirit, folks. I really, really do. Well, 

Todd: and I suppose people appreciate the saving of, uh, space, you know? 

Craig: Yeah. 

Todd: My god. I, I, seriously, there used to be so much of my garage devoted just to Halloween decorations that were sitting there for most of the year.

Craig: I know, and we don’t do it at all because, for that exact reason, we just don’t have the space to store the stuff. Ugh, unfortunate. But anyway. Yeah, so I’m glad that we are doing, I don’t remember exactly how it worked out that we ended up doing this for the Halloween 

Todd: episode. I put it down that way because this felt like it would probably be the most Halloween of the movies that we did this month, and uh, I kind of think it is.

Craig: Yeah, me too. And that’s the thing that I love the most about it. So the movie that we’re doing is 2022’s The Curse of Bridge Hollow. It’s a Netflix original, and that’s where I watched it. Alan and I watched it last year, because we had never seen it before. And I had heard good things about it. And we both liked it.

I remember liking it a lot. And it’s so Halloween y, like, that’s my favorite thing about it. Like this is a movie about Halloween and everything in it is about Halloween. And it’s, it’s fun. It’s not the best movie I’ve ever seen. I don’t love it as much as I love The Worst Witch. 

Clip: I mean, it’s no The Worst Witch.

You’re 

Todd: not going to gush over this like you did The Worst Witch. Well, first of all, there’s no music in this one. You don’t have any songs to sing to us. That’s going to be the saddest part of this. 

Craig: That’s really not all that sad. I listened back to that and, oh boy, that was something. You guys 

Todd: were done dirty by the delay, you know, there’s the natural delay between the two of you, but you, you would have been singing in sweet, sweet harmony, like chorus girls and boys.

I know. 

Craig: I know. 

Todd: Otherwise, just like you did when you were children. 

Craig: I actually really like a lot of things about this movie. It’s a fun story. The thing that kind of perplexes me is I’m not exactly sure who the target audience, because. It feels very much coded for children. Yes. But I think that many average children who are not like you and me might get really scared.

Like, and the effects are so good. And I’m not saying they’re brilliant, but they’re so good that I think that they might be really scary for kids. Like, this stuff looks real. 

Todd: Yeah, and that was one thing that, you know, I’m always watching movies like this thinking, Oh, would this be something I could watch with my son?

No. Not yet. Not yet. I don’t think so. He’s seven and he’s a little touchy about these things. He definitely couldn’t see this yet. And that was what I was thinking. I was like, you know, for what I was imagining to be and what, you know, Otherwise, sort of felt like a, oh, light hearted, breezy, lower budget movie with a very cookie cutter type script and whatnot to throw out at Halloween time like you would throw together one of these Hallmark Lifetime Christmas movies, you know?

There was a lot of care put into it. In the special effects department. It’s actually really, really good. I mean, it’s Hollywood blockbuster style, good special effects. Even when the mix of practical and the computer generated, it’s seamless. And the computer generated doesn’t look cheap at all. To the point where you can’t even tell sometimes when You’re what you’re looking at his computer generator, whether it’s practical I just think it’s that well done and that more than anything else about this movie really blew me away I was like gosh.

This is a nice movie to watch it. It looks good. It does the effects are great There’s nothing distracting in there, you know in that regard. I thought it was a fun ride 

Craig: There’s always something going on. Like it’s just scene after scene after scene with new things happening. And it’s a very simple conceit that we’ll get to in just a second.

But you said you wouldn’t show it to your seven year old son. I wouldn’t show it to my 16 year old nephew. He is, he doesn’t like scary stuff in general, but he’s particularly freaked out by zombies and there are zombies in this movie and they are Straight out of a grown up horror movie like yeah, they don’t pull any punches as I guess is what I’m saying Yeah, when it comes to the scary stuff, and there’s definitely silly stuff too But when it comes to the scary stuff, they don’t pull any punches and they go hard.

There’s there’s really scary zombies and really scary clowns 

Todd: Yeah, evil clowns with real axes and machetes, swinging them around, uh, doing damage to, you know, the set. I was surprised at how scary those, those things were. And everything in here glows with red eyes. And, I don’t know, you know, a skeleton is ten times more scary when it’s got red eyes burning at you.

So, yeah, it’s like they just amped everything up. And then I thought the final villain as well, all of it looked very spooky. In that regard It was cool that they didn’t pull any punches in that department. That being said, nobody dies in this movie. And you know it’s gonna be a movie like that, right? 

Craig: Oh, sure.

Sure. 

Todd: And I love the idea that the way they kept it so PG. I think it’s technically TV 14. But same difference, really. The way they kept it that way is, almost all of the monsters in this movie are actually Halloween decorations come to life. Ha ha ha! Right! Which is a really super smart way of avoiding gore!

Right! When they knock these things down, or they chop their heads off, or they hack them in two, or one particularly interesting chainsaw scene. You know, it’s just stuffing that’s coming out of them, or, you know. Bits of cardboard and wood. They just 

Craig: break, right? Yeah, they just 

Todd: break and they fall to the ground.

And so, on the one hand, you know, it’s like, the danger is real. On the other hand, in the back of my mind, I keep going, but they’re still just animated decorations. These aren’t actual zombies from hell, which happens at one point when a character gets bit by one of them and he starts freaking out like, 

Clip: I’ll tell you what happened here!

One of these zombies just bit me! Huh? Oh, God. Does that mean I’m gonna turn into one of them? Is that how this works? You can’t let me turn. You gotta shoot me. Blow my head off, man. What? No, I’m not gonna shoot you. I don’t wanna turn into a zombie! You’re not gonna turn into a zombie! Zombies are fictional creations, okay?

Dead bodies don’t have functioning nervous systems, which means they can’t move. Basic biology. I didn’t understand a single word you just said. Maybe I should handcuff myself to the porch just in case, huh? Or You can get a tetanus shot. Yeah, good call Bill Nye the Science Guy. 

Todd: Burn. So it even provided a little bit of comedy, you know, as well.

Craig: There’s, there’s lots of comedy. It is a comedy. I don’t know, I didn’t find it hilarious, but it was funny. The basic story is Howard, played by Marlon Wayans, one of the very famous and very funny Wayans brothers, and his wife Emily, Kelly Rowland, The Kelly Rowland. The Kelly Rowland, yeah. Destiny’s Child. Of Destiny’s Child and Freddy vs.

Jason. She’s a fine actress. She’s fine. She’s fine. I actually felt bad for her because this, well, and they have a daughter, Sydney, who’s played by Priya Ferguson, who, the only other thing that I’ve seen her in is is Stranger Things, but she came on like in the second or third season of that show playing one of the main character’s younger sisters, and just like steals the show in every scene she’s in.

Oh yeah? She is hilarious. So funny. Both she, but even more so Kelly Rowland, I felt kind of bad like they weren’t really given much to do. Right. Kelly Rowland is Confined to that baking sale for 

Todd: the whole movie. 

Craig: Yeah, 

Todd: she, it’s a very, OneNote, thematically, her character is like very OneNote and very absent from almost all of the action really.

Craig: They’re all kind of OneNote to be honest. Like the writing isn’t amazing. I just like, I do like the story, but the way that the characters are written is, is kind of one note. Like the dad is a science teacher and he’s obsessed with science. And he hates Halloween and he hates anything, like, I don’t know, like, supernatural or whatever because it’s not scientific and you can’t prove it and it’s dumb.

Todd: And they hammer this home so hard because it’s So hard. The movie leaves you with the impression that this man views everything in his life through the lens of, Can I make this into a science lesson? It’s tiresome. I mean, you’re very kind when you say the writing is, What is, what was the word you used? I don’t know.

Not, it’s okay and not bad? I don’t know, you might have said that. I think the writing’s terrible. I mean, it’s not terrible. The dialogue. The dialogue is dumb. That’s my point. It’s so cookie cutter. It’s almost like what would have come out of a script writing class. Like, here are the beats you need. Here are the elements you need.

And then these are the most cliche ways that you can put those beats and elements together. So let’s just. Do that. There are jokes, but I don’t think there’s any, any much new. No. To the jokes. You can see them coming from a mile away. Some of them are even a little cringey. Groaners. I don’t know. It’s just not hip, edgy in the slightest.

There’s nothing edgy about this movie. 

Craig: You’re right. Like I, I, and I want to agree with you and I feel like I’m falling into a trap and that I’m going to start talking bad about this movie. I, I think that honestly, that really wasn’t. of my mind because didn’t really care. Like I was willing to overlook that because it was so fun to watch.

Gotcha. Yeah. So, you know, honestly, like I was paying attention to what was happening and I was listening to the words they were saying, but that’s not what I was there for. I hear you. The stuff that I was there for. paid off. Like I was really satisfied. They moved to this new town. I mean, it’s, we open on the shining shot of their car driving through a forest and it’s fun.

You know, they’re singing hit the road, Jack, which is like thematic throughout the whole. And the parents are nerdy and goofy and the daughter’s annoyed and eye rolly, and they’re moving to this new town and she’s mad because they’re making her move to a small town, but they are moving out of the city, like the same setup that we have seen for 8, 000 movies.

Yeah. 

Todd: Nothing new here. No, 

Craig: it’s God. But they, they, they, they cross a covered bridge into their new town of bridge hollow. Which is, Americana, like, New England in the fall, rich white people. 

Todd: Isn’t this the same backlot set that they use for like, Back to the Future, and something wicked this way comes? If it isn’t, it is.

It looks like it. 

Craig: I mean, especially like the town square. Yeah, that’s what I mean. 

Todd: Cute little old town. Everybody’s busy and boisterous and very Halloween. That’s the thing about this movie that I, and I liked this too. 

Craig: And I’m in like from this scene when they first drive in and they’re just driving down the street and they see that every single house has a Extensive and ridiculous Halloween display like oh, yeah, I’m I’m on board.

Yeah

Todd: It was pretty cool and of course like all of them look like they were put together by Hollywood special effects artists Yes, that amazing not a blow up item to be seen. No, not a single inflatable 

Craig: Not one and they look great and their next door neighbor has a yard full of zombies and he’s funny There’s lots of funny people in this like Sully.

Yeah, Rob Riggle. He’s been in a lot of stuff. He’s a funny guy He’s not in this very much. No, but he’s pretty good when he’s in it. He’s he’s 

Todd: iconic. 

Craig: He’s 

Todd: funny He’s again, but also I mean he is that stereotypical Character right the good old boy Easygoing, slappy on the back, former military dude who can’t wait to shoot his guns, drinks beer.

We’ve seen this a million times. 

Craig: I know, and see now, I know, now that we’re talking about it, now I’m really thinking about it, and like, the cracks are showing, like, It’s, it’s, it’s too bad that That I had to point these out to you? Well, no, I feel like you already alluded to it, but it’s so cliché and it’s just like, just throwing in every cliché of these kinds of movies, like here you’ve got the kind of eccentric But they don’t really do anything with them, really.

It’s at some point the daughter, the dad still is like the, the neighbor wants to like loan him decorations. Like we’re all really excited about Halloween. And the dad’s like, uh, yeah, no thanks. Like, So you got a theme? 

Clip: No. You like werewolves? Not particularly. Cause I got a whole shed full of werewolves.

That’s real wolf fur. I don’t even know if it’s legal. And I don’t care cause it’s Halloween. Oh, no thanks. We’re good. Really? We don’t decorate. Jehovah’s Witness. No, I just think it’s kind of silly. What? I mean, do you still believe in Santa Claus? Why, what have you heard? Is he okay? 

Craig: He’s just such a stick in the mud and it goes on for so long.

Like, bro, like, calm down. 

Todd: He doesn’t even feel like a real person at that point. Nobody is that bad of a stick in the mud, you know? 

Craig: Right. Like, okay. So you don’t really care for Halloween. That’s fine. You are new in the neighborhood. They move into a enormous mansion. Also typical. It’s not like a Gothic mansion, but it is an enormous mansion.

Oh, it’s, 

Todd: it’s 

Craig: bigger than the Amityville house. It’s got huge. And on the inside, you know, like it’s, it’s just stunning. Like woodwork everywhere. Like a huge, like foyer, like, Oh my God, it’s so ridiculous. But seriously, you, you move into a neighborhood and your neighbors are friendly and greet you and say, we are super enthusiastic about Halloween.

You’re like, yeah, I don’t really care about Halloween. They’re like, well, that’s all right. We’ll help you. I have lots of really cool decorations that I’ll loan you. No. Like, do you not even want to, like, make a good impression on your new neighbors? 

Todd: Backing away like he can’t get away fast enough when his wife swings by, doesn’t even introduce her, they just kind of go in and, and then the neighbor just kind of chuckles and walks away.

I mean, I would be offended if I were him. Me too! It’s like, what’s wrong 

Craig: with you, buddy? So there’s that guy, and we don’t get enough of him, and then when she goes to school, the daughter, when the daughter goes to school, she meets, like, a little gang of misfits. 

Todd: Well, she meets them in the cemetery, actually.

Oh, that’s right. I wanted to talk about this for just a second, like, they go into the town square at first, right? They, like, walk. Everything’s within walking distance in this town. It is that small. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And they walk into the town square and they’re setting up for some kind of festival and this woman pulls up in a truck that has this giant jack o lantern.

I love this prop, actually. I love this prop. Love it. It’s like a truck that’s been transformed and half of it just looks like a big jack o lantern and 

Craig: It looks like it’s being eaten by a Yeah. Giant evil jackal. Yeah. 

Todd: Out pops the mayor. And she is played by, what, Lauren Lapkus? Yeah. She’s hilarious. Yeah, she’s funny.

And she does like voices and things like that. She’s been in a lot of things. 

Craig: Yeah. She did a stint on the Big Bang Theory, but she’s been in a lot of things. And she’s very, very funny. 

Todd: She’s the kind of person that I always thought was on Saturday Night Live at some point, but isn’t. Ha ha ha ha. No. Like, she just gives that impression, you know?

Oh, she just gives off the former Saturday Night Live player air. True. And anyway, you know, she’s talking about the festival and the town and welcoming there, and just, it’s just very nice and sweet. I mean, again, there’s like, No real conflict here, we’re not setting up any tension, except for this dumb thing where the dad’s just like, Ew, Halloween, you know, everywhere he turns and is openly disdainful.

But everyone else is like, Eh, yeah, whatever, you know, it’s like they almost ignore it or don’t even notice it. And she says, Oh, we got this festival affair going on. And that’s when she brings up the, people can set up booths or something. And that’s when the bakey thing comes in. And the wife goes, wife’s name is.

Uh, 

Clip: so, is there gonna be any food at this festival? Of course, yeah, a lot of the local stores are setting up booths. We got hot dogs, funnel cakes, chowder, everything. Uh, is there gonna be any artisanal vegan baked goods? I don’t know what that means, but sure, why not? 

Craig: And this is so one note and stupid to like throughout the course of the movie like she eventually does Eventually she said she leaves it’s Halloween night or whatever and she leaves and she sets up her Bake sale at this festival and they just keep coming back to her either via phone call Like the dad will call her for advice or something or they’ll just come back to her as she’s like sitting there Selling her goods.

And every time she’s selling her goods, she sells it to somebody and they just wanna like throw up. Like it’s the most, like they spit it out. Yeah. At one point she gives something to a priest and he takes a bite of it and she’s like, what do you think? And he says, I’m really not supposed to lie. And hands it back to her and walks 

Todd: away.

Oh my god. You’re laughing because it’s so dumb. Yeah, not because it’s funny, because it’s dumb. Because every time we come back to this woman and someone tries her goods, it’s like, Uh, yeah, I know what’s gonna happen. Can we just skip past this scene? It’s also just a stupid joke. I would expect this joke like in the 70s or maybe the 80s.

I don’t expect this joke from a movie that was made two years ago. The idea of laughing about how gluten free and vegan stuff tastes bad, we’re long past that. It doesn’t even taste bad anymore. 

Craig: No. I mean, it’s still not my favorite, but come on, it’s ridiculous. And like, it’s such a stupid joke, and like, the end cap on it is at the very end of the movie, when everything works out fine, because this is a kid’s movie, everybody ends up around the island in the kitchen the next morning, and the mom’s like, Here, I made some Cinnamon rolls.

And the dad and the daughter are like, UGH. Like don’t eat them. But the other kids eat them and they’re like, these are so good. So the dad and the daughter eat them too and they’re like, oh man, these are good. What’s in them? And she’s like, butter and sugar and gluten. Like, that’s a funny joke. 

Todd: And she says, I just.

Life. I just decided life is too short. This is so dumb as to almost be offensive. That’s how dumb it is. I 

Craig: don’t know. Maybe kids would think that was funny. I don’t know. Nobody’s 

Todd: gonna think that’s funny now. No, it’s 

Craig: really stupid 

Todd: and poor Kelly Rowland. Poor her. She had to do this and probably had to know how dumb this was.

Like, if you’re gonna dig into a heaping treasure chest of Hollywood cliches. Why is this the one you had to pull out for this movie in 2022? It’s pretty dumb. 

Craig: The mayor tells them also about, you know, I guess it’s their local legend of Stingy Jack. Oh, I 

Todd: turned his story into a sweater. That was, oh yeah, that was hilarious.

Funniest line in the whole movie. Oh, I turned his story into a sweater. So she’s got a sweater there that and she points to the different elements on the story 

Clip: According to an old Irish legend there once lived a wicked man named Stingy Jack And he was such a jerk that the villagers finally had enough and but the devil felt sorry for Jack so he made him a lantern a Pumpkin carved out with a flame the fires of hell Every Halloween, Jack would return to our town, Bridge Hollow, to seek his revenge on the descendants of the villagers who did him in.

Well, at least that’s what we tell the tourists, am I right? 

Todd: It was a very, very simple type story. This is a very cutesy script, and there’s nothing innovative about this backstory. 

Craig: They, uh, okay, so you said those, the kids meet in the cemetery. Yes, because, because, 

Todd: Sid, the girl, is wandering around downtown, and she is looking down an alley and sees a sign that says, Cemetery service entrance?

Yeah, I know, I thought that was funny too. She just walks off screen down this alley, and in the next shot, she’s in this big open field off a cemetery that’s surrounded by trees and woods. I laughed so hard at that. I wondered if it was an intentional joke. It’s so dumb that I thought it was supposed to be funny.

Like, the cemetery is literally right next to the town square and that whole side of the square behind it is just this giant open field with woods around it.

Didn’t even occur to me. And of course, she’s walking through and whatever and then we get a little jump scare because as she walks by a, uh, what are those, like a tomb, right? They’re above ground, kind of mini mausoleum crypts or whatever. Yeah. The door spring open, and three kids come out of it, and they’re all goth.

Well, two of them are goth, and one of them’s Mario. I mean, that’s his name, he’s not the character Mario. I mean, like, they didn’t make all three of them super goth. Mario’s kind of the out, the odd man out, odd man out. 

Craig: Yeah, all three of them are kind of supposed to be like outsider kids. Like, there’s Ramona, she’s really short, and she’s the goth one.

She’s got, like, black hair, and we’re his dad. Dark eyeliner. She’s so cute. She’s tiny, but Jamie’s got like purple hair and she’s dressed in she’s got she has blonde hair But she has like purple streaks in it. She’s very pretty. I mean, they’re all cute They’re all kids, but it’s you know, they set it up like oh, here’s their little gang The whole movie by the way, I’ve been meaning to say it since the beginning.

It reminds me a lot of Goosebumps. 

Todd: Yeah 

Craig: But I think Goosebumps did it better. 

Todd: Way better. 

Craig: I mean, I don’t want to talk bad about this movie, because ultimately I really get Watching it was a really enjoyable experience. 

Todd: I also want to say I’m lovingly making fun of it, because the movie has a bad I didn’t read any of the reviews, but all I saw was like, it’s like a 28 or 38 percent on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic.

I didn’t even want to read any any a word anybody said about it, because, again, like you, I enjoyed it for what it was, And I’m not going to be too harsh on it, because I think they probably made what they intended to make. They clearly weren’t trying to break any new ground here. They were just trying to make, again, I think like the equivalent of one of those like Hallmark Christmas movies for Halloween and for kids.

So, you know, but I mean, come on. They didn’t try very hard to, you know, color outside of the lines here, you know. 

Craig: That’s what I’m saying, like, missed opportunities, because then I thought that this, you know, much like Goosebumps was gonna follow this little ragtag group of kids, but it doesn’t. They’re just kind of hanging out in the background too, and ultimately, I don’t even remember exactly how it happens.

Sidney is in her attic, or goes up to the attic for some reason. No 

Todd: she doesn’t! Oh, I can’t wait to talk about this too! Alright, cause I just finished watching it, that’s why it’s so much fresher in my mind. But I made a note, so, at the behest of these kids, because these kids tell her, Oh, you’re the one who just moved into the old Madam Hawthorne’s house, which by the way happens to be the crypt that they walked out of too.

Yeah. And I didn’t know that Crypts in cemeteries just had swinging doors where you could walk in and out of them and nobody gave a shit. They’re locked, but that’s how this cemetery works. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh, they’re like, oh, well, you know, they say that her go, her spirit still haunts that place. And she’s like, really?

And they’re like, yeah, we’ve got some homework for you. So she comes home. She goes upstairs by herself into someone’s bedroom down the hall, opens up an iPad, and a Ouija board app. Puts her fingers on the planchette on the touchscreen on the Ouija board app. And I’m like, how is this app supposed to work?

Does the planchette like Move under your fingers, and you’re just supposed to move your fingers along with it or something? Like 

Craig: Also, she did not read the terms of agreement, because what is the first rule of Ouija boards? You gotta have more people! You never do it alone. She’s lucky she didn’t get possessed.

I guess so, I just I’ve seen that movie. 

Todd: Many times. So anyway, then after she does this, I don’t know, some little wind blows and some spooky sounds happen. And then down at the end of the hall in this beautiful house, a door slowly creaks open. She walks into that door and suddenly we’re like in the f ing attic.

This beautiful house with this second floor, with these rooms and bedrooms and everything is modern and beautiful. For some reason they decided to leave one room. Unfinished from the 19th from the 1850s completely unfinished to the point where there are cobwebs You know laugh and plaster walls you’re seeing in here like nobody stepped in there for 

Craig: 50 I don’t remember but are you sure she didn’t go up some stairs because it definitely felt like an attic 

Todd: She never went upstairs Stairs, that is the funny thing about this opens the door and steps into this room.

Again, I thought the movie was with me, you know, I thought the movie was trying to be silly, but no, it was really that way. And yeah, she just kind of like trips over some things and knocks a skateboard, which like hits like a tricycle, which hits a lamp and ends up falling into one of these walls. 

Craig: Yeah.

It’s like a Rube Goldberg mousetrap type series of events. Something then falls. Into and breaks through a wall and she looks in there and there’s a trunk in there and she pulls it out and She opens it up and there’s an old fashioned Jack o lantern and it’s funny because it’s it’s a whole joke. It’s a turnip It’s a jack o lantern made out of and that’s that’s that tracks Is a legit thing.

Like, yeah, that’s in the olden days. Right. And then more things happen. I don’t remember exactly how it gets set up, but there’s this building conflict between her and her dad. Like he’s so into science and wants her to be into science, but she wants to do other things and she wants to be in the paranormal society and, and the mom is trying to mediate and trying to get the dad to loosen up a little bit.

It all ends up on Halloween night. They’re in the kitchen together. And they’re arguing about something. Yeah. And she has, and she has that jack o lantern. 

Todd: Well, I mean, we got there because Dad was gonna forbid her from doing Halloween stuff. He’s like, you don’t do that. Like, we’re not gonna do that. We’re not a superstitious people or something like that.

I mean, he’s a major buzzkill. Dad is. Oh God, yeah. And by the way, We’ve been to the school, because Dad, you know, is the new science teacher there, so he’s introduced to his classroom, and that’s when we meet the principal. Who is this happy go lucky dude who’s played by John 

Craig: Michael Higgins. He’s so funny.

He’s delightful. He’s 

Todd: always delightful. He’s been in a million things, and Best of Show, and all that stuff. But yeah, so, he was fun, and I just gotta point this part out, too. Like, the dad opens a cabinet. In his room that’s supposed to have chemicals in it and out springs a plastic skeleton that falls on him and he freaks out Like this is the scariest thing that has happened to him in a long time And he’s so shaken by it.

Even when the kids are streaming into the classroom Marlon Wayans just a stand there like oh Staring at that skeleton in the closet. Oh my God, you know when we did the worst witch and you know They were playing terror tag or whatever. Yeah, I felt like this was like Along those same lines. Really?

You’re that scared of I mean, I know you hate halloween. You’re all scientific. He’s scared 

Craig: of skeletons Oh, right. He tells that story later like the reason that he is It’s so sciency, it’s because one time when he was a kid, he was playing around an old house or something and, I don’t know, like the floor fell out from underneath him and he fell into the cellar.

When he looked around, the cellar was full of stuff. Skeletons, but they were alive and they were like coming for him and then he was terrified but then the doctors explained to him that sometimes people who get concussions hallucinate and So he had a scientific reason For what happened. And so he knew that everything real had a scientific explanation and that’s why he just cannot wrap his head around anything, but you’re right.

Like he is just such a buzzkill. Like my guy, I get it. Like you’re not into it. That’s cool. Your daughter wants to do it. Like, just, 

Todd: what is your problem? Your daughter goes by the, the Yoder’s general store and buys a rubber bat and hangs it over the door, which, as he comes home, he sees it and he yanks it down like he’s angry.

He walks into the kitchen, opens up the trash can, and chucks it in there. Like, alright, maybe you don’t like the fact that she has this bat, but your daughter bought that bat. Are you gonna throw that away? 

Craig: And it’s one little tiny decoration, like, calm, Down, sir. Right. But we haven’t even gotten to the fun part of the movie, like, so, like, she, for, she lights the jack o lantern, the, the turnip jack o lantern, um, and then he blows it out but it comes back, it lights back up again, he blows it out and comes, like, it keeps coming on and eventually he throws it in the trash can and then the trash can starts shaking and that bat, that toy bat, that decoration bat that he threw in there flies out and it’s got red eyes.

And it like flies all around and scares them and they’re freaking out or whatever. But eventually it flies out of the house and across the street into a cauldron in a Halloween display with witches. 

Todd: With these awesome witches. 

Craig: Oh, it’s great. And the, and the cauldron kind of starts to glow red and then the witch’s eyes turn red and they come alive and, and go flying and like they fly across the moon.

It’s so great. All of this is amazing. Like, I love this. It’s so much and 

Todd: appropriately scary. I mean, I was like, man, those witches are bad ass and it is so cool and they’re cackling. 

Craig: Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s great. I mean, it takes time and there’s a series of scenes, but what happens is it’s like it spreads. I think the dad even says sometimes it’s like a virus, like it spreads and it does.

Todd: He says it’s like, it’s like a virus, which makes sense because it started with the bat. Oh my God.

This movie would be banned in China for that alone. I’m just telling you that right now. 

Craig: There are also, I thought they made a mistake because I think this is a fun movie that some, like, if you see this when you’re a kid, I think maybe this will be something that you really enjoy and cling to. And I thought that they made a mistake by including some jokes and references that will clearly date it.

Yeah. I mean, that’s one of them, obviously, but I feel like there are just other like pop culture references. Yeah. One of my favorite things is one of the things, like the bat, that is spreading this around is a cat, but it’s like a two dimensional, like, plywood cat that’s running around spreading it, and it spreads it to the neighbor who has the zombies, and the zombies come alive, and those are the first things that the dad and the daughter really have to confront.

And the daughter is awesome. I don’t think she’s well written. I think that the girl who plays her is great. And I just think that she had to say the words that were written. And yeah, she’s all the time. Just like dad, come on. Like, look, it’s real. Like dad. It’s just the two of them bickering back and forth all the time and the movie is supposed to be about them Learning about each other and building a relationship, but it doesn’t 

Todd: work.

No, there’s no moments. There’s no build It’s just you know They have these action scenes and dad’s got to do something and then she has to convince him and then he Kind of starts to understand, I mean, at some point I was like, come on, what you, you really think there’s a scientific explanation for this?

Like all these spiders just came to life. 

Craig: The zombies come to life. He did. Oh, those are great animatronics. 

Todd: No, 

Craig: come on. Come on. Yeah, it’s ridiculous. Yeah, that happens. And then you’re right. Then I don’t remember. They go to the school at some point. I was saying another thing that dates it. The kids. The, the, the nerdy paranormal kids.

Mario is dressed like Hamilton, right? 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And Ramona is dressed as Cruella. That’s pretty timeless. That’s fine. I couldn’t figure out who the third one was supposed to, was she supposed to be Tanya Harding? 

Todd: I have no idea. Even Tanya Harding is a dated reference. Come on. 

Craig: I couldn’t figure it out. Somebody, somebody tell us in the comments who she was supposed to be, because she was clearly supposed to be somebody specific.

I couldn’t figure it out. Very eighties and they look great and it’s fun. I don’t remember if it’s before or after that, because again, at this point it just seems like vignettes. They’re just going from location to location for new things. All of this is because of Jack, whatever, Stingy Jack. 

Todd: At some point we get a backstory.

Yeah, cause they go to, cause Sully, after, you know, fighting off the, the Zombies. I don’t remember why, he overhears them say something about Hawthorne or whatever, and he says, Oh, her, and she’s like, And the girl’s like, no, she can’t still be alive. He’s like, oh, I thought you were talking about her granddaughter.

Her granddaughter’s still alive, she’s at the nursing home. So they decide to go to the nursing home to talk to the granddaughter, who is a freaky looking herself. Yeah. She’s an old lady with white, I guess Cataracts. Cataracts. Eyes, or whatever, yeah, but she tells the story of when she was a little girl, her mother and her witch friends held a seance at their house in order to contain the spirit of Jack, and he didn’t go well, and eventually they were able to contain him, Jack wanted to come back more they had made an agreement that he could come back every Halloween for a day?

I didn’t 

Craig: really get that. It didn’t make sense. Somehow, like, he made a deal with the devil that if he could Find a different soul to give back to the devil then he could Stay and then it would be Halloween all the time. You 

Todd: had to like possess somebody basically or something 

Craig: No, I think he has to take like there’s like there’s this big vortex to hell I guess that opens up at midnight on Halloween.

He’s got to toss someone down there. He’s got to toss somebody in there Oh, okay, like I didn’t quite catch that bit And then he can stay and it’ll be Halloween all the time. All right, whatever. I don’t know so they talked to that Creepy old lady like she was funny. I think that she’s an old Hollywood actress.

I don’t know I looked at her imdb page and it was a black and white picture of her when she was younger So she’s obviously been around a long time But the whole nursing home is decorated in spider webs and spiders and a giant spider 

Todd: more effort I’m sad. I’m, sorry to say than any nursing home usually puts Forward for decorations.

Craig: Yeah, I haven’t done it in a long time, but the nursing homes around here are great I’ve taken little kids around to trick or treat cause those, the old folks love seeing the kids in their Halloween costumes. But anyway, all the spiders come alive and they have to have a big spider battle. And then, and Oh God, the dad like sciences out and mixes chemicals to make some acidic like supernatural bug spray.

Todd: It’s one thing that 

Craig: he 

Todd: gets MacGyver about it, but on the other hand, he’s always like, Pop quiz! What happens when you mix X with X and blah blah blah? He’s trying to make some science lesson, like he’s continually trying to prove a point, or continually trying to teach his daughter, you know, lessons in chemistry.

Well, 

Craig: and in do I don’t even know if they talked about this in the movie, but in doing that, like, he’s always talking to her like she’s so And she’s not, like, she’s super smart. Like, she, she knows all this stuff. So, then, I feel like that’s when they go to the school, and there’s, like, a haunted maze in the school.

There’s, 

Todd: like, two of them, yeah. Well, there’s a haunted carnival, creepy carnival, and that was awesome. 

Craig: Yes, yeah, this whole thing is great. Like, they had mentioned it earlier because her new friends were going to be working at, I don’t remember what it was called, something about a, some kind of haunted maze.

And they were going to be working at it, and so I was excited. 

Todd: And real quick, the reason why they go to the school is because, The woman, I think, tells them that there’s a grimoire, like the, the spells that her grandmother had were in a book, that the kid looks up online to find where the book is, and, oh, it was sold off on auction to this guy who happens to be at the school now, so that’s why they go there.

Craig: Right. I mean, there is connective tissue, like Oh, it’s 

Todd: so thin and so dumb. I know, it 

Craig: just does I, I feel like it doesn’t matter. 

Todd: No. 

Craig: You know, they, they, they get to the school, and then they get chased around by really scary clowns. Like, they’re really scary. Yeah. I loved the shots from above of them in the maze.

Like they’re running around in the maze and the clowns are chasing them. And it, it was scary to see, you know, there’s just one very small partition between them and these killer clowns. And then they’re just turning a corner just in time to get away. Like I really liked it. Yeah, it was good. Like it was a really fun.

Fun viewing experience. And then at the end, the dad and the kids meet up, they, they get out of the maze and they meet up and they have to fight one of the clowns who has an axe. And yes, the, the dad fights him for a minute. And then the girl comes in and like, she’s like the karate kid. And she like, like swing kicks Emily.

Todd: How about when Marlon Wayans squares up with that one clown and goes, homie, don’t play that. Before 

Craig: he kicks him. That was. I did laugh out loud at that. I did too. I had almost forgot about Homey the Clown. Oh boy. Homey 

Todd: the Clown, don’t mess around. Oh gosh. Even when he’s up, the man’ll bring him down. You know, I loved this bit.

I mean, obviously, it’s a little suspect that these decorative clowns and things that they’re gonna have in this have actual axes and machetes. I know, right? 

Craig: Yeah, I mean, it’s a little bit difficult to understand the rules of it because when those clowns come alive, they are clearly men in clown suits.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: But like you said, any time they are dispatched or dismembered, There’s no blood or gore, it’s just, like, props. And you know they die because their red lights go out. 

Todd: Yeah, so how are they actually getting dispe yeah, what does it take to, like, dismember it to the point where no bit of it moves anymore?

Yeah, it’s kind of hard to say. 

Craig: Well, and it’s one thing when a cardboard Halloween cat is chasing you around. It’s it’s just from a viewing perspective, the zombies are the same way. Like, they’re clearly Real. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: Whereas some of the things maintain their look like, I don’t know. Again, there’s this whole chase for, they’re looking for this book and the guy who was supposed to have it sold it on eBay and he doesn’t know who bought it, but he knows the address ’cause it was 6, 6, 6.

So they 

Todd: walk to 666 Elm Street, which it’s like, really? If you sold it to a guy, you didn’t need to mail it. It seems like you could have just walked this 

Craig: to his son. You sold it to a guy on the internet who lives down the street 

Todd: in town. And 

Craig: it’s the principal, who is low key a devil worshiper, right? Well, he claims to not 

Clip: be.

Floyd. Uh huh. What are you, some type of Satanist or something? Oh jeepers no, Howard. Howard! I’m a principal in a very small town with a very big Christian population. No, no, no, I just Collect things, you know, some people collect stamps some people collect butterflies I collect objects related to the eternal damnation of the human soul 

Craig: I think he’s a low key Satanist because then at the end, when they win, he’s like, I’ve switched teams.

I don’t know. But his yard is decorated. It’s great. It’s fantastic. It’s so good. I wish that I had the money and the time and the storage space to set up a whole like football team of skeletons. It’s just skeletons and football jerseys and helmets. And it’s great. He’s a 

Todd: principal with school spirit. I like this guy.

Craig: Right. They find the spell, they find the spell book, but then the skeletons come alive, and there’s a whole And remember, the dad is scared of skeletons. And they fight them, and then I think they all end up down in the basement, and then the dad and this daughter have, or somebody, I don’t know, they have a talk about 

Todd: She gives him a lame pep talk.

Quick, this little pep talk that changes his whole worldview in, uh, in 30 seconds. Dad! 

Clip: What is wrong with you? The skeletons. Ah, they’re coming through! What do we do? So it’s unexplainable. So what? They’re real. And you know what you can do to something that’s real? You can kick its ass! 

Craig: And he’s like, okay, so he grabs the chainsaw

and he goes upstairs and there is a whole big scene of him taking out these skeletons with the chainsaw and it’s fun. 

Todd: I loved it. It’s super fun. It’s another reason why I wouldn’t show this to my seven year old though. Even though they were clearly props and they’re skeletons or whatever, he lops limbs off, he cuts them.

It’s almost like what Art the Clown would do, you know, except This is just dust and, and bones and whatnot. Still not ready for my son to see. A chainsaw being wielded in that manner on humanoid like creatures. 

Craig: Let’s just put it that way. I get it. And I don’t disagree with you, 

Todd: but it’s awesome. 

Craig: It’s so much fun.

Todd: Yeah, it’s a lot of fun. 

Craig: In all of the ruckus, the spell book gets, all the pages come out and flutter all around, and the page with the spell gets burned. They hear a weird rumbling, and then when they go outside, all of the decorations from all of the yards are gone, and they’re like, Oh no, what’s happening?

And they’re like, oh, they must be gathering. And they’re gonna gather in the town square where the festival is, because at the festival they have a giant stingy jack. And whoever wins the pumpkin carving ceremony, that pumpkin gets to be Stingy Jack’s head. So, the kids and the Wayans brother, uh, head towards town, but on the way, they stop by the ceremony cemetery to go to the Hawthorne Crypt to do a seance.

Yes, because they have to get they have to get the spell because the spell got burned up the old lady Hawthorne in the flashback is played by Nia Vardalos of my big fat Greek wedding and then she possesses Marlon Wayans and talks through him and one of the girls records it for Tik Tok and then they leave.

Right, and all of the Halloween decorations have gathered in the town square and the the townspeople have put the giant pumpkin on Stingy Jack’s head and The mayor is leading the ceremony and when all of the Halloween decorations show up she thinks it’s like their rival town Coming to mess up their festival and so she kind of like leads a charge with her town To like face off with them.

Todd: It’s so dumb I guess it’s supposed to be funny because this sweet like very peppy and very Gung Ho Mayor, who just seems so nice, has got it in for, like, Shelbyville, basically, you know. 

Craig: I know, her character is so funny. I really like that actress, Lauren Lapkus. I think she’s really, really funny. She does a really odd accent.

Like, she’s got, like, uh, Bronx, like, I 

Clip: Yeah. 

Craig: It’s weird, like, what are you doing? Nobody else in that town has that accent. It 

Todd: doesn’t even fit. I was waiting at some point for her to like, say something like, Oh yeah, I moved here from New York too, or something like that. But, I don’t know, it’s 

Craig: really weird.

But anyway, so it all culminates. The dad and, and the kids all get to the square. And then Jack comes alive. And, and like flames like burst out of his mouth and eyes and I loved, God, I loved this. 

Todd: This was good. 

Craig: The Stingy Jack character at the end when he comes alive and oh man, it was great. It’s got an 80s vibe to me for some reason.

I’m not sure why. I know why. The real 

Todd: Ghostbusters or. Also hints and shades of Return to Oz are in there. You know, with the Jack character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then also, you know, we did the Disney Legend of Sleepy Hollow for our patrons. And that cartoon, you know, has that flaming pumpkin in it. And the flames, like, shoot out of the pumpkin.

Out of its eyes and its nose. It all kind of came together for me. And kind of that feeling. It was cool. A little bit of Nightmare Before Christmas, too. I think there’s a pumpkin character. That looks a lot like that. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah, I loved it. It’s great. He’s big, you know, like he’s really big. I would say he’s probably like 10 feet tall.

He’s huge. The dad and the daughter look for the mom because she was at her bake sale, but she’s gone and they know that Jack needs both. His lantern and a soul to trade at midnight. And they’re like, Oh no, because mom is at home listening to R& B, drinking wine. 

Todd: Not as devastated as she should be that slowly everybody spit her food back into their face.

You know, 

Craig: then she’s even like trying her own food and she’s like, Ooh, it is gross. And she’s like knocking her scone on a plate. And it like makes a clanking sound. Yeah. Scones are hard. Like scones are hard. It’s fine. 

Todd: That’s the worst thing. It’s a dumb joke. You should have made it like, I don’t know, like an angel thing.

Food cake that was that hard or something right so stupid. 

Craig: But anyway, he’s there. He skulks around He doesn’t actually get her before they show up the dad and the daughter show up they show up But then he does get her and then the bat is also back and causing problems and the dad and the daughter like there It’s like a moment like he he has to go rescue his wife.

He doesn’t want the daughter to kill Come because he doesn’t want her to be in danger or something, but like he has to trust her to take care of herself I don’t know like again, like I said, there’s some that’s what the the character growth is supposed to be He’s supposed to be learning that she’s growing up and he’s got to let go a little bit and like they they play act it Like it’s in the script, but it just doesn’t read.

No 

Todd: Because they’ve been fighting these monsters the whole time. I mean, like, there’s no real change. Like, Oh, I don’t know. It just, it’s silly. It’s silly. 

Craig: And so he goes in and he has to read the spell and he does, but it’s not working. And the daughter’s like, you have to really believe in it. So he reads it in English.

So 

Todd: he, apparently to 

Craig: believe it, he has to say it in English and he does. And Skinny Jack gets sucked into the hell vortex. And then they’re fine. And then it’s the next morning and everything’s fine and everybody’s happy and all the kids are there and everything’s great. And then he and the daughter go up to the attic and they’re gonna seal up the jack o lantern.

They can’t just destroy it because that might let him out again. I don’t remember ever hearing that. Right. I guess they’re just being cautious. I don’t know. Whatever. So they put it back in the trunk and they cover it in chemical flame retardant. Right. And they lock it back up and they have a little heart to heart about how, you know, he realizes she’s getting older and she can do things on her own and he trusts her and blah, blah, blah.

Please. And then I don’t know, somebody knocks something over and the Rube Goldberg thing happens again, breaks through another part of the wall and they look in there. And it’s full of locked trunks. And I think the last line of the movie is, Oh, hell no. 

Todd: Oh my god. That about summed it up, really. I’m surprised that Marlon Wayans even uttered that line.

Oh 

Craig: my god, I thought it was really funny. 

Todd: How dumb. Again, so dumb as to almost be offensive. 

Craig: Uh, no, I thought it was hilarious. Also, when they were having their heart to heart, Or no, no, no, gosh, no. It was when they were still down at the, uh, uh, standing around the, the kitchen island having cinnamon rolls.

They were saying something about how wild last night was. And I think it was Ramona said, Huh? You think that was wild? You should see what this town does for Christmas. And I was like, Oh my God, that is hilarious. Like just totally setting it up for a sequel. And then of course they, you know, they could do, A sequel with all of those other trunks too and I don’t think they will cause I haven’t heard anything.

I haven’t heard anything about it. I don’t think this movie did well enough necessarily to warrant a sequel, but for all of the crap that we’ve given it and I think that we’ve been really fair in that regard. It was a fun watch. I had fun watching it and and so I would 100 percent recommend it again.

The writing isn’t great. I don’t care. I don’t care because the, the stuff that I’m seeing and the stuff that is happening is, is so fun and it’s so Halloween y. I’m glad we saved it for the last one because of all the ones that we’ve seen, this one is just, it feels like such just a celebration of Halloween.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And for that, for that, I, I really like it. 

Todd: Yeah, I, I agree with you on all that. I’ll admit, I got a little bored about halfway through because it was just so predictable, and Yeah. You know, you could see where it’s going, there was nothing innovate nothing real edgy, like I said, even not even really attempting to be edgy in any way, shape, or form.

And so, I did get a little bored about halfway through it, but this is like a, that’s because I’m a 40 something year old guy watching it alone, you know, this is a family movie, you know, this is something you would sit down with your family and have a ball with, so, uh, it’s, it was made for that, it delivered, I think, on what it was made for, it’s a shame it couldn’t be a little more creative and clever and original but It fits the bill and the special effects really made up for it If the special effects had not been as good it would have been pretty a pretty lame movie Yeah, that redeems it to some degree It’s just the production value is high and the star power of it is is high You know Netflix has big pockets and yeah They do and they can put things like this together and then they do and I mean the fact that there isn’t a sequel to It should kind of show you because you know, sometimes it doesn’t matter what the critics think If audiences eat it up, it could be critically panned, but if it got a lot of views on Netflix, they’re gonna make a sequel, or they’re gonna do something with it.

Oh god, 

Craig: yeah, Netflix is totally driven by numbers, that’s all they care about. 

Todd: Yeah, and it doesn’t seem like, just by evidence of the fact that we’ve seen nothing moving on that front, it’s probably also didn’t get the viewership that they were hoping, so. But you know. A perfect Halloween movie. I’m so glad we saved this for the last week, because it’s Halloween through and through.

It’s a good Halloween movie to watch with your family. Don’t expect too much from it. Just sit back and enjoy the spirit of the season. 

Craig: Yeah, it’s fun. I mean, it’s like going to a haunted house or a haunted attraction. Like, there’s just so many fun things to look at. Like, that’s what, honestly, that’s what the movie feels like.

It feels like you’re moving from room to room in 

Todd: a 

Craig: haunted attraction. 

Todd: For sure. 

Craig: And it’s fun. I love that stuff. 

Todd: We did it because you recommended it. You, you saw it last year and you thought it would be good for us to do. We did it this year, and I’m glad we did. So thank you, Craig. Happy Halloween to all of you.

We hope that you, uh, have enjoyed this month and that you’ve still got a couple more days to go for the big day, so get your preparations in order. We would love to see what you’re doing. If you’re decorating your lawn or putting together a pretty awesome costume, post some pictures for us on our patrons page as well, if you’re a patron.

Otherwise, you know, you can search Two Guys and a Chainsaw podcast. And you can find our Facebook page, our website, all of those places, uh, you know, you’re able to, uh, interact with us and comment back. We’d love to hear what you are doing for Halloween and, uh, see some cool pictures from around the world until next time I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Sleepy Hollow remains a solid Tim Burton film – and his first foray into real horror. While it boasts a star-studded cast (Johnny Depp, Christina Ricci, Christopher Lee, Jeffrey Jones, and practically the entire cast of the Harry Potter series), we note that the passage of time has not remained kind to this one. What is wrong with it? Nothing, actually. It’s just … well, not what we expected, and not as fond as we remembered it.

Nevertheless, the classic tale of Ichabod Crane and The Headless Horseman is utterly PERFECT for conjuring up those Halloween vibes. Let’s take a deep dive into this as we get into the spirit of the season.

And if you’re a Patron of the show, you’ll also get access to our companion minisode, where we discuss the Disney animated version of the original Washington Irving tale upon which this movie is (loosely) based. Wander on over to our Patreon page and consider joining the crew for a discussion of both the cartoon AND the short story, as well as nearly 50 minisodes and other goodies exclusively for our Patrons!

Episode 412, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: We are knee, knee deep in the holiday season. Knee deep in the graveyard, as you might say. Knee. Where do I come up with this shit? I mean, I probably wouldn’t. Some people might say it. I don’t know. Maybe I said it for the first time and it’ll become a thing.

It’s cute. I like it. I once came up with a saying that I was spreading around and hoping that would spread so that by the time I saw it in a movie, I could tell everybody it actually came from me. I don’t think you should say it. Are you saying that because I’m scared. Oh yeah, it’s a fantastic one. I thought, like, what is something that people always say, like, Oh, that really ticks me off.

That really ticks me off or I’m really pissed or something like that. I thought, That really yanks my loins. Damn it, that yanks my loins. Pretty good, huh? I mean, that’s pretty good. It’s unique enough that if I heard it in a movie, I would know it only came from me. But I thought it was catchy. Thank you.

Okay. If any I’ll I’ll keep 

Craig: my 

Todd: ears out. My cousins in Illinois, when I was in high school, I think when they were in high school, so that was, this was many years ago, claimed that they, once I told them this, they started using it at school and they said everyone at school saying it, was saying it at some point.

So I had high hopes. But I have yet to see it in a movie, so, uh, that remains. Don’t give up. I won’t. Maybe, you know, once this spreads to both of our listeners, they can also go off and do the thing. I’ve still got lots of life to live. I think it’s got legs, man. Yanks my loins. That really yanks my loins.

Hello, welcome to Two Guys in a Chainsaw. Hope we don’t yank your loins today. 

Craig: You know what really yanks my loins? Yeah!

It works, doesn’t it? Get 

Todd: on 

Craig: with it. It works, okay. It’s, it’s, it’s something. 

Todd: We were looking for a wide variety of Halloween stuff to do, and it seemed like the list that I came up with was getting a little skewed towards, like, children, kind of kidsy movies, and I thought, you know what, that’s kind of fine.

So why don’t we go ahead and throw this mainstream movie in that I remember from 1999 called Sleepy Hollow. Starred Johnny Depp, Christina Ricci, was directed by Tim Burton. I remembered it as being fun and fairly light. You know, as far as horror movies go, that it wasn’t really so scary. It was just full of atmosphere and pretty much suitable for your older, younger set.

So when we went back to watch it this time around, which I hadn’t seen since it came out, I was pretty shocked at how gory it was. I was really surprised, and so I’m kind of happy that we sat down to do this one this season because I was really happy to revisit it, there was a lot I’d forgotten about it, and it is maybe the most horror of a Tim Burton movie that Tim Burton’s ever done.

Oh yeah. And, and that’s odd because you think of Tim Burton as being the spooky guy, but in actuality, he really hasn’t done much of what you would consider horror, and I think this might be horror. At the top of the list. He certainly took the project because he, he hadn’t done a horror movie yet, which is odd because horror movies were his favorite movies growing up.

He was a hammer horror fan. He was a Vincent Price nut, you know, and, and, and all that. And it really kind of inspired. the direction you decide to take things, so. It was fun revisiting it, but uh, this is the first time I’d seen it since it came out. I’m not sure if I’d seen it in the theater or rented it, probably 50 50 one or the other, but yeah, I had a good time.

How about you? What was your history with this movie? 

Craig: I, I, I don’t know. I’ve been trying to think. My memory is so bad, so I’ll tell you what I think I remember, but I may be just totally making it up. I think that I remember being really excited about this. Like when the trailers came out, because I really liked Tim Burton, you know, especially up to this point, I’d really liked the stuff that he had done.

And up to this point, I liked Johnny Depp. And I really like this story. Like, this is one of my favorite Halloween stories. When we were growing up, the Disney version? Yes. The animated one would play annually on television? Young people today just don’t know. You just don’t know. You know? Young 

Todd: people today, they just don’t get it.

Craig: There were these great things, like these holiday specials, or just movies that they would play yearly, usually around some holiday. Like, The Sound of Music, or Wizard of Oz, or something like that. And that would be for many of us, the only access you had to that. So when it came up. Every year. It was so exciting every year at Halloween.

I was so excited to get to watch the sleepy hollow cartoon. It was so cute. So I was super excited about this movie. And I think that I remember being disappointed. I’m not sure why. Well, I think I know. Watching this again, I still wasn’t super into it and I was telling Alan like, I don’t know what I’m gonna say because there’s nothing wrong with this movie.

Like, it should hit on every level and just for some reason it just doesn’t for me and I can’t figure it out. Maybe we can suss it out as, as we talk. I don’t know. 

Todd: We might be able to. I, I don’t know. I, I, like you, uh, loved that Disney, what, it was my first introduction to the story and it’s a very compelling story.

Craig: It’s super, super faithful to the, to the text. Oh, it is. To the Washington, yeah, the Washington Irving text. Now the Washington Irving text, I’ve tried to teach that several times and kids are just not into it. And I get it. Yeah. Because it’s long and it’s kind of boring. Well, 

Todd: it’s, it’s all narration.

There’s no, you know, it’s like a story told by a, you Heard from a guy, heard from a guy, you know, and it’s kind of done in that vein. Didn’t Washington Irving have a book that was ostensibly essays and letters from somebody else? You know, like, He just, Oh, I don’t know. It’s a good story. It is. But it’s, it’s like the tale you’d hear from some old man sitting around talking, telling you, you 

Craig: know, I mean, it, it, it, it, me, it meanders.

Like it’s a lot of like local color. 

Todd: It’s heavy on description. That doesn’t matter world. 

Craig: Yeah. Like world building of the area and like all these like old legends. And it really is a good story. It really is. But you need, you have to be in the mood for it. It’s, it’s not like a page turner. 

Todd: Yeah, it’s less like reading a novel or a short story as it is like having somebody tell you something that they heard happen once.

Yeah. While you’re sitting in a bar and the music is loud or whatever. It’s just, it’s not gonna hit the same. But I actually really like that story because I find it cozy. 

Craig: Yeah, oh, it’s very cozy, sure. 

Todd: You just kind of disappear into a little world for a while and I, and the language of that time, you know, the writing, Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s just so, sometimes I’m really in the mood for that. Let me just put it that way. It’s almost Me too. Yeah. I get it. It transports you back to a time you never lived in but wish you had sometimes. Anyway, yeah, we’re gonna actually do the Disney story of, uh, Ichabod Crane, the cartoon, as a minisode for our patrons.

So if you’re actually interested in hearing us talk a little bit more about the Disney movie and about the short story that inspired it, go to Patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast and think about signing up. It’s just five bucks a month and you get access to a whole bunch of minisodes. And the ones that we’ve already done and the ones we do in the future, lots of other goodies and things like that.

So I think I kind of know why, because I liken this a little bit to the movie Van Helsing. 

Craig: Yes. Oh my God. I put that in my notes and I was super excited about that movie too. And then it was just okay. Like, and again, it should have, it’s exactly What I think I want it to be, but for some reason it’s just not.

I was curious as to whether you would be a bigger fan of this. Because I should have figured it out on my own, but I really didn’t figure it out until I started reading about it. That he did this very much in the style of Of the Hammer horror films and Mario Bava films. Now, Mario Bava films I’m not nearly as familiar with.

I know we’ve done a couple. Tell me, what are some of the ones that we’ve 

Todd: done? Honestly, we have not done a Mario Bava film yet, which is Are you serious? Yeah, I’m sorry. We did one by his son. His son did Demons, and so we did that one. So we probably talked a little bit about him, and we said Bava, but it was not Mario.

Black Sunday is one of my favorite old movies, and it’s cited constantly as a inspiration for so many people who grew up watching those 60s horror movies and hammer horror movies that and finally went on to direct in themselves, and little pieces and bits of it end up in movies. We’ve seen the actress from that became very, very popular and has shown up in movies that we’ve done, including Piranha.

She was one of the mean scientists who was part of the conspiracy. So, yeah, we, we’ve talked about Black Sunday and Mario Bava a little bit, but we’ve never done it. And now I’m thinking we need to rectify that. We need to at least do Black Sunday, if nothing else, that Mario Bava has done. He is a big blind spot right now in our, 

Craig: You are more familiar with all of those films than I am, but I think I may have just figured it out.

I think it’s when a brilliant filmmaker looks back at the films that they were inspired by and want to emulate it. Like, here’s my tribute to it, or I like it so much. I want to do something like it and they try to recreate it and you just can’t like it 

Todd: maybe yeah 

Craig: with the modern effects And it’s just different so much of what those movies are to me is style And I understand that you you can imitate style But just the visual me as the viewer looking at it the visual style.

I understand. Yes Okay, so Burton filmed most of this movie on set But it doesn’t look like it. 

Todd: Not at all. 

Craig: The old Hammer movies, they look like sets. I almost feel like I’m watching a play. So it’s totally different. And, and so I think it just doesn’t work. Like trying to think of other things like that.

Tim Burton’s Dark Shadows. Nobody was into 

Todd: yeah, 

Craig: I feel like when you try too hard to recapture something in this case I just don’t I don’t know and it’s not a bad movie. It’s not no, it’s a good 

Todd: movie It just doesn’t work for me So I’m gonna be a little kinder than you on this because I do feel like he did a pretty good job of Recreating the look and the and the style of hammer films visually Again, like what you said is very true, like, updating it a little bit, because it’s just much more, it’s got a bigger budget and better teams behind it, you know, it’s more competent and stuff, so like, the sets don’t really look like sets, even though they’re still just as covered in fog and obscured and kind of small as they were, you know, when you’re doing, say, like, in, in, in one of the old Hammer Dracula movies, where you’re out in the woods and it’s just a bunch of branches and things and a lot of fog to kind of disguise the fact that you’re actually in a small confined space.

It’s hard to make a set look big, you know, when it’s, uh, inside of a, even when it’s inside, like, an airplane hangar. 

Craig: And they do it brilliantly here. Like, it’s so, the whole thing is so well done. Tim Burton is a genius. Like, I just think he’s an absolute genius. I said earlier, like, Up until this point, I was a big fan of him and Johnny Depp.

I’m, I’m still a big Tim Burton fan. I feel like the stuff that he’s put out more recently doesn’t really live up to some of his earlier stuff. And Johnny Depp, I’m just over, like, I was never all that into him. And at this point I’m just over him. I don’t get it. Let’s, let’s let him go. Let’s let him go 

Todd: away.

It sounds like you’re putting him to sleep. 

Craig: No, he can just go and be rich quietly somewhere else. I don’t need to see him anymore. 

Todd: I’m picturing you as, as an assassin coming up from behind Johnny Depp, real quick around the neck and he’s like struggling and you’re going and slowly lowering him to the ground.

That’s, that’s, uh, that’s a 

Craig: very vivid imagination, but, but, but Tim Burton is Brilliant. Edward Scissorhands is one of my favorite movies of all time. And Johnny Depp is brilliant in that too. I will give him credit where it is due. So I’m not like everything is beyond adept. The cinematography is gorgeous.

Right. The directing is good. I found the pacing weird, but I was also trying to put myself in a head space where he’s going for a certain type of movie and probably these hammer films and these, these Bava films were probably paced this way. It’s just not what you’re used to. It weirded me out that the movie felt like two different movies.

It felt like there was the first movie where they’re trying to figure out who the killer is. And of course everybody knows it’s the horseman, but. Ichabod Crane Johnny Depp is a man of reason so he can’t accept that and then about halfway through the movie He sees the horseman and so then that mystery is over.

Yeah, so then they introduced a new one 

Todd: So it’s like Sherlock Holmes kind of who did it sort of thing? 

Craig: Yeah, which is fine. It was just ah, I don’t know Yeah. The movie’s an hour and 45 minutes long. It felt long to me. 

Todd: I thought it was two and a half by the time I finished watching it. It would 

Craig: never 

Todd: end.

Ironically enough, I was just gonna say before you mentioned pacing, that I think that that is one thing that separates this, that makes us feel different from a Hammer Horror movie, and that is the pacing. Even though it’s a bit slow, there’s a lot. There is, it is plot heavy. Oh my god. There are so many characters, and there is so many plots, and so many twists, and so many turns, and so many details, that in that way, It feels kind of fast.

I mean, it’s not like a simple story told over a slow period of time, which is sort of how I feel like the pacing of the old Hammer Horror movies are. 

Craig: Yes. Yes. 

Todd: And so when you get in that, when you slip into that zone, that mental space, you know, that atmosphere Kind of all that’s left, right? So you’re just wallowing in that atmosphere and that atmosphere, I could say, kind of overtakes you and becomes overworldly and their dream sequences that fill the time and you know, there’s all this stuff.

Clip: Yeah. 

Todd: It’s very different from what this is, which like you said, is a plot heavy. First it’s one movie, then it’s another movie. It’s a detective story, it’s a whodunit, there’s got a million names to try to remember and figure out. I got lost halfway through and I stopped even paying attention. I did too.

Yeah, so in that way it’s got this sort of, they’re trying to shoehorn this very simple old story into a more of a, what they feel a modern audience can handle, you know, a more modern sensibility, an updating of it if you will. So instead of Ichabod Crane being this like, school teacher. Who is quite a simple man, but is trying to kind of woo this girl and thinks he’s got a shot at it.

Ichabod Crane’s character in the short story is freaked out by ghost stories. He believes, he’s not a skeptic, he’s the opposite. Oh yeah. He believes all these ghost stories and he’s terrified of everything. To the point where even, maybe even more so than the townspeople, of this already very superstitious town.

And this guy is not that at all. No, it’s very different. 

Clip: I am Constable Ichabod Crane. Sent to you from New York to investigate murder in Sleepy Hollow. Then Sleepy Hollow is grateful to you, Constable Crane. And we hope you will honor us by remaining in this house. Well spoke, dear. Well, come, sir. We’ll get you settled.

Clayon! 

Todd: And the efforts to make it seem like he’s scared of things and very skittish are really inconsistent. Because on the one hand, he’s a little ill at the sight of blood and jumping up at spiders that are scurrying across the floor. And on the other hand, he’s getting blood squirted in his face by voluntarily, you know, axing at a tree that’s bleeding.

Craig: There’s so much face squirting on Donny Jepp. Like, um, Tim Burton, um, like, There’s a lot of squirting on Johnny Depp’s face. I’m just saying, you might want to tone it down. 

Todd: He’s making his love for Donny Jepp a little too obvious in this one, isn’t he? And also, there’s this moment where he’s like, I’m gonna round up a posse of the most able bodied men to go in and after the Headless Horsemen.

At that point, I was just like, okay, it’s not the same story. It’s not at all. That is how I felt about Van Helsing. It was going for this old classic Universal’s monster feel. Of course, they had to update it by making a lot of computer generated effects. I can give that a pass or whatever. But Van Helsing becomes this, like, action superstar.

And the whole movie is just nothing but One action sequence to another which is completely betrays the feeling of those old films So it doesn’t feel at all like those old films and honestly when I was coming to see a movie about Van Helsing and was excited I wasn’t wanting to see Van Helsing as Indiana Jones, so it was, uh, disappointing.

And I kind of felt that way about this, too. I wasn’t coming to see Ichabod Crane as sort of like a Sherlock Holmesian man of reason who slowly becomes to believe in the supernatural, but is able to summon up the courage to have these long, drawn out action sequences where he’s leaping from a horse to a horse to a wagon train and summoning up a posse to single handedly go after, uh, This horseman deep in the dark woods.

That was disappointing. 

Craig: Yeah. I, even though some guy on the internet says that I’m too negative, I’m going to, I’m going to go ahead and say it anyway, and I feel, I feel, I feel okay about saying it because Johnny Depp himself. Says he’s not watched this movie because he hates the way he acted in it. I don’t like it either.

Yeah, it’s it’s it’s not like he does anything wrong. He’s fine. I just I was trying to figure this out because I don’t care for him anymore. It’s not just about stuff that’s been about his personal life. That’s been very public. That’s not charming, but Just as an actor, people kind of swoon over him and I just feel like he’s just kind of always the same to me and I feel like whatever he’s in, when everybody else is giving 10, he’s always giving 11.

So like he’s always just a little bit over the top and compared to everybody else and it just 

Todd: It throws off the balance. Scene stealing. 

Craig: People are gonna disagree with me and that’s totally fine. I understand that I am in the minority here. I, he’s a huge star, he has been for years. I, I respect that. He, just not my cup of tea, that’s all.

I understand if, if you like him, I get it, it’s fine, but I don’t. Dude, 

Todd: I’m with you on that, honestly. I love him in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. I really do. That is one of these situations where doing the wacky character that nobody kind of like was expecting but then it turned out like it was really, it worked.

But then, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, like, it’s the same deal, he’s like, I’m gonna go because I feel like Willy Wonka would be a childlike man so I’m gonna literally try to be as childlike as possible and then over the top and it, 

Craig: it sucks. Listen, I hate, I hate it. But I will at least give him credit for making a bold choice.

Todd: Well, that’s my point. He makes bold choices, and I think that is what people like about him, and that is what 

Craig: And that’s fair. 

Todd: And they’ll say, Oh, well, that means that he’s a great actor. I don’t know. I mean, don’t get me wrong. He’s a great actor. It’s just like, that’s kind of become his shtick. 

Craig: Yeah, that’s what I feel like.

It’s It seems a little lazy at this point. I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. He’s And like, I, I appreciate the fact that like, you know, in the story, Ichabod Crane is supposed to be like, unattractive, and he offered to wear like prosthetics and stuff to make himself more physically unappealing. And Tim Burton didn’t want to do that.

He wanted to just focus on the unappealing. Aspects of his character, which is fine because he was super annoying and a, a big baby sometimes, like you said, but then at other times, I’m going to lead the charge. Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, there’s, there’s so much, God, we, we couldn’t possibly, if we wanted to, it would take us all day to go through the whole plot, but there are so many notable things like this cast.

Yes. Is. Insane! I know, 

Todd: right? I had forgotten. It’s crazy! And, especially in retros actually, not really even in retrospect, because everybody in this was, uh, famous. Famous British actors, surprisingly. At one point, Johnny does Ichabod Crane, when he comes to Sleepy Hollow, he’s Ha ha! He’s a New York detective!

He’s in a room with every famous old man you’ve ever seen. Yeah! He’s in a room I was watching this with Liz, and she said, It’s like a reunion of the cast from Harry Potter. It is. It practically is. But it’s also, to be fair, kind of a reunion of everybody Tim Burton likes to put in his movies ever. So you’ve got, uh, Jeffrey Jones from a bunch of his movies, but you know, Beetlejuice.

Father and Beetlejuice. He plays the local, um, priest guy. Then you’ve got Michael Gambon. Who is the town mayor? What do they call it? Like, the constable? No, he’s just a rich guy. Who has a lot of influence? 

Craig: Yeah, he’s everybody’s friend, but also their banker. Yeah. I feel like he’s just the really rich guy who’s maybe a landlord.

Yeah, I think that’s what he is. He’s like a landlord. And 

Todd: of course, he’s, Michael Gambon was famously Dumbledore after the first, uh, Dumbledore. Two? First two Harry Potter movies, or first one? I don’t remember. He’s been in a million things. He pulled, um, what’s his name out of retirement? Alfred from, uh, Batman.

Michael Goe? Yes, Michael Goe. 

Craig: Ugh, I love him so much. He’s so sweet. 

Todd: He’s so, they really do him up in this too, and I guess he wasn’t gonna act anymore after that, but But, uh, he pulled him out of retirement. Yeah, this was, yeah, it was his last, 

Craig: and that was it. This was the last one. 

Todd: Yeah. Last live action role.

I guess he must’ve done a voice or, 

Craig: Oh, right. 

Todd: Who else is in there? 

Craig: Richard Griffiths, who is magistrate Phillips, who is uncle Vernon from Harry Potter, 

Todd: as I watched him slovenly sitting down, slurping things up and eating tea, I’m like, what must it be like? To be the guy, who it’s like, Anytime I need a big disgusting fat man, this is the actor I call, you know?

Craig: And isn’t he the one, like, At some point, he dies, a bunch of people die in this movie, But he, his death scene, he’s like, Walking up a hill, and I was genuinely concerned for him. I, is he going to make it up that hill? Right. Because he’s a big guy and it didn’t look like he got around very well. For sure.

Miranda Richardson plays Mrs. Van Tassel. She has, I mean, all of these people have been in a million things, but the Harry Potter connection she was Rita Skeeter. Casper Van Dien, who I have always loved. I think Casper Van Dien deserves A list. He 

Todd: does! Status. And I, I don’t understand why he doesn’t have it, because first of all, he’s just one of the most attractive looking guys in the world.

Yeah. And he’s real built, and he has been in like 150 things. I went to his IMDB page, because I was like, huh, I wonder if he’s like, still working pretty regularly? Oh yeah! For the past ten years, he’s been in like five movies or TV shows a year, at least. It’s kind of insane. But I first saw him in Starship Troopers, and I absolutely loved that movie, and I loved him in it.

Craig: Uh huh. 

Todd: And so that would be a little closer to this one, right? I think 1997 was Starship Troopers. And that was, I think about his breakout role, right? 

Craig: I guess that should have made him a huge star. 

Todd: It did more for, uh, what’s her name? Denise Richards. Denise Richards than it did for him. And I was shocked.

Well, I mean, if you’ve got to choose between the two, I’m not terribly shocked. 

Craig: I get it.

Todd: You know my, uh, my Denise Richards fascination, right? 

Craig: I do. I get it. She’s a beautiful, beautiful woman. Christina Ricci plays Katrina Van Tussle. Casper Van Dien plays Brom Bones, by the way. Vom Van Brunt in this. 

Todd: He’s like the Gaston of this. 

Craig: He totally is! Oh, we’ll talk more about that later. But Christina Ricci plays Katrina Van Tussle, who’s the daughter of the rich guy or whatever.

And they, I just, there are things about it that I love. I love that they live in like a big Gothic mansion that just looks like a backdrop. 

Clip: This land we’re looking at was Van Garret land given to my father when I was in Swadling Close. The Van Garrets were the richest family around these parts. When my father brought us to Sleepy Hollow, Van Garret set him up with an acre in a broken down cottage.

My father worked hard for his family, and prospered, and built this house. And I owe my happiness to him. 

Craig: Okay, so Winona Ryder was at, was offered this role and she turned it down, I assume because her relationship with Johnny Depp had gone sour. 

Todd: Oh really? 

Craig: Well, I assume so, I don’t think they were still dating at this time, I can’t imagine why else she would have turned it down.

Maybe she just had something else going on, I don’t know, maybe they were still together. They were together for a long time, they were like a hot couple. And 

Todd: weren’t their ages pretty close? 

Craig: I think he was older than her. And I think that they got together when she was very young, so Yeah, yeah. But, but, they, you know, they were a serious couple.

I love the story that he tattooed Wynonna forever on himself. And then when they broke up, he had it changed to Wino forever. I love that. I love that story. But he was Johnny Depp was like thrown to, I mean, mentally, like he was thrown when he found out he was gonna be playing a romantic part opposite Christina Ricci because he was significantly older than her and knew her since she was a little girl because he was dating Winona Ryder at the time that they were filming Mermaids.

And Christina Ricci was a, Child in that movie. Yes. I get it. 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: That’s funny. You want to hear a personal story? One time I was in a play. 

Todd: With, with Christina Ricci? Go on. With 

Craig: Christina Ricci. No, I, I got cast opposite one of my former students in a romantic role. Oh no. And we had to kiss a bunch. Oh my god.

Todd: That had to be strange. 

Craig: It should have been, but It wasn’t like she was still a child like, you know, she was in her 20s at this point, right? and it should have been weird, but I Obviously platonically loved her so much and like we worked so well together that it wasn’t weird at all. That’s sweet. Um, for us, like her classmates from when she was in school, we’re like, Oh, God, 

Todd: could 

Craig: you imagine?

Right? 

Todd: Mr. Higgins. Am I our English teacher? 

Craig: But for us, it was fine. She was wonderful. She was one of the most amazing acting partners I’ve ever worked with. But yeah, I mean, it was a little weird. So I get it. I get where you’re Johnny Depp is coming from. Oh, we didn’t mention Christopher Lee is in it for about two minutes in the beginning 

Todd: and apparently Christopher Lee in his memoirs Credited this film as being the one that were kind of reintroduced him to a new generation and he thinks it was directly responsible for him getting the roles in both Phantom Menace and Lord of the Rings?

Lord of the Rings, yeah. But Phantom Menace was filming around this time, so I don’t know if he just shot his scenes here early, or What the deal was? I’m not I’m not sure about all that, but 

Craig: Well, he surely could have shot all of his scenes in a day or two. Oh yeah, 

Todd: this was shot, yeah, in a In a hot minute, but this movie hadn’t even been out yet, and I think, well, Star Wars had wrapped, but I don’t think Star Yeah, Star Wars was coming out around the same year, 1999 2000.

But anyway, yeah, he thought that his role in this was significant. And I think Tim Burton just cast him because he was over the moon happy to cast one of his childhood heroes, you know, in Oh, absolutely. He threw him in there. I mean, if Vincent Price had been alive You know, he would have cast him in a movie too.

Well, he did. He cast him in, uh, Edward Scissorhands. But, uh 

Clip: There is a town upstate, two days journey to the north in the Hudson Highlands. It is a place called Sleepy Hollow. Have you heard of it? I have not. An isolated farming community, mainly Dutch. Three persons have been murdered there all within a fortnight.

Each one found with the head lopped off. Lopped off? Clean as dandelion heads, apparently. You will take these experimentations of yours too, Sleepy Hollow. And there you will detect the murderer. 

Craig: Well, and the casting of him and Michael Goh, like, really kind of adds to the authenticity and credibility of the movie and, and of what Tim Burton was trying to do.

Right. You know, like, it’s, it’s obvious that he’s a legitimate fan. Of these types of movies. He loves them. He’s doing this because he loves it. And he wants to, I think that shows in, in the care that was taken and the thought that was put in again, I can’t say enough. I don’t think it’s a bad movie. I think it’s really a very, very well made movie.

Just not, just didn’t work for me. Um, the only other one that we haven’t mentioned, I think is the very first person that we see on screen is uncredited Martin Landau. 

Todd: He did it as a favor, I hear, to the cinematographer who directed those. I think it was the cinematographer of the movie who actually directed those initial scenes, um, not Tim Burton himself.

In fact, we might as well talk about this, too. Tim Burton wasn’t originally slated to direct this either. This movie came out in 99, but it started development in 93 with a script that had been written by Andrew Kevin Walker. Andrew Kevin Walker is the guy who wrote Seven, but even at this time, Seven hadn’t been picked up yet, but the script was floating around, and on the basis of reading that script and being impressed with it, some executives at Paramount got this screenplay, and because horror was getting kind of big right now.

I don’t know, like four years before here, this Bram Stoker’s Dracula came out. Scream had come out a few years before this as well. So horror was becoming a little more mainstream at this point. So I think they were looking for this kind of thing. And, uh, originally Kevin Yeager was going to direct it.

Kevin Yeager is an effects artist and he’s probably most famously known for doing, well, a number of things, but he, I love him because he did the Crypt Keeper. Puppet, and puppetry in the Tales from the Crypt series. But he’s done, you know, he did the effects for Starship Troopers, and lots of other things.

Loads of, uh, Freddy Krueger’s makeup, starting with the second one. So yeah, he was a veteran of the industry, but he never directed, and so he, this was gonna be his, uh, directorial, sort of, debut. But once things snowballed, I think the studio wanted to pull Tim Burton in it. Depending on what you read, either he got demoted, or he voluntarily said, step down because he was excited that Tim Burton was involved and just slipped back into the role of doing prosthetics and effects for the movie.

But it was originally just supposed to be like a low budget slasher movie and even the violence in the script had to eventually be toned down. They hired Tom Stoppard. And he’s not credited for it, but he did significant rewrites on the script to tone down the violence and ramp up the humor. And I’m surprised, like, I mean, it must have been pretty violent, because I, I, for a Tim Burton movie anyway, for a mainstream movie starring Johnny Depp and all these stars and directed by Tim Burton, I’m shocked at how much violence is in it.

Craig: It’s very violent, but they’re clever. So anytime the Headless Horseman. I guess we’re just kind of assuming that people know the general story. But anytime the Headless Horseman kills somebody, decapitates them, or whatever, stabs them through the gut to decapitate their unborn fetus, Um, anytime Anytime he does that, their wounds are immediately cauterized.

Yeah. So there’s no blood. So silly. Except when blood shoots out of like, uh, cadaver, I think, maybe, at one point, and a tree, a bleeding tree, at another point, directly onto Johnny Depp’s They, like, during the actual kills, there’s really no blood. 

Todd: Yeah, I guess that makes it better. I mean, certainly it makes it a little better, but 

Craig: Except, I mean, I guess when there is human on, like, non supernatural entity, if no supernatural entity is involved, there may be blood.

Like, at the end, a couple of those famous old guys die. Knock each other on the head. Oh, that’s true.

Todd: Or something like that. Oh boy. Still, when I started it, I was thinking, Oh, maybe this will be something in a year or two, I’ll show Kenji. And then I thought, no, this is not for children really. This is a. No, no, no, it is pretty dark. Yeah, it’s not, it doesn’t fit in the rest of our lineup so far with the, of Halloween as far as the, in between the worst witch and the Goosebumps.

TV, Goosebumps and Dark Night of the Scarecrow TV movie. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah, it is, it’s, it’s more violent than I expected. I don’t know, but there’s, there’s something about it, about the violence that, feels almost quaint. Like it, it feels it’s, it’s almost no worse than the violence that you would see in the old movies, the old hammer movies.

I, now I re I don’t know specifics, but I read that Burton wanted to use as few digital effects as possible, but of course they had to use some digital effects. Like this was the only. filmed version of this story where the headless horseman didn’t have to hide his head underneath the cape like they They computed it out.

They computed his head out But when you see as you often do somebody get decapitated and their head rolling on the ground It’s, it’s CGI. At least some of it. At least they’ve cleaned it up with CGI. I don’t know, it just, it didn’t feel scary to me. I definitely got the vibe. Like, this, this movie is a great vibe.

It’s a great Halloween vibe. Put it on in the background at a party, at a Halloween party.

Todd: You haven’t broken that one out in a while.

Craig: Because there’s great, like everything is a great visual, like if it was just on in the background, anytime you looked at it, it’s going to look great. It’s going to be a great vibe. And, and those rolling heads, they’re a great vibe, but they almost look more like a Halloween gag than. Something really scary.

You know what I’m saying? Yeah, I 

Todd: mean, 

Craig: they don’t 

Todd: look fake. I mean, the prosthetics are actually really quite good. I thought in several cases, very convincing. But, you’re right. It’s, I guess it’s kind of a gruesome, dark joke always when a head rolls towards someone, you know? Or the heads are rolling around on the ground.

Right, but 

Craig: you’re not seeing, like, viscera, like, coming out of their neck, you know? 

Todd: Yeah, it’s like they’re spurting blood and, you know, the look on their faces. Right, right, right. Yeah, it’s true. Right. Right. Right. Anyway, a lot of heads roll in this movie, that’s for sure. And for that reason, I wouldn’t show it to my kids.

Despite the fact there’s no blood squirting around, the idea of people getting their heads chopped off right and left, quite brutally, really, you know, in these very brutal fight scenes, you know, full of energy and, and I think rather convincing. 

Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s a great fight scene with Ichabod. And the headless horseman, which again, doesn’t make any sense.

Like why is Ichabod suddenly jumping into a sword fight? Like it doesn’t, Brom is butch and, and is trying to prove himself or whatever. He’s a dummy for getting into a fight with a supernatural thing that you can’t kill. I mean, I guess he doesn’t know that despite the fact that it has no head. But that’s, that’s one, that’s one part that I really liked.

That was, that’s a great fight scene. It goes on for a long time and there are some surprises in it. I loved the part where they’re standing, looking through the bridge. Like the legend is the Hessian or the Headless Horseman or whatever, can’t cross this bridge. And so they’ve just fought him on one side of the bridge and run to the other side and they’re standing on the other side, looking through and they hear.

Footsteps, but they don’t see anything and in my mind. I’m thinking. Oh my gosh is is he like invisible now? Can he do that? But no, it’s it’s far more logical and practical He’s just walking across the roof and then he jumps down right in front of them But I thought that was a really effective scare.

Yeah, and then they have a big fight a huge choreographed long Like sword fight with different weapons and stuff. And in the end, Brum gets sliced in half. Oh God. It’s crazy. So there are a lot of great things in this movie like that. And because we have clearly already blown our opportunity to talk about this.

From start to finish. I feel like maybe we should just start talking about what are some of our favorite things about this movie 

Todd: Well, I’ll tell you all right laying aside the fact that Ichabod is like not really Ichabod that I know He’s investigating things and he’s trying to figure things out What I didn’t really care for was all the investigation in the movie because after a while I got so lost I didn’t I couldn’t keep track of These two families and he would see a clue in a book or a family tree or he would see some symbol and He’d get a knowing look on his face like he sorted something out, and I’d be like, What?

Did I forget something? Or am I just not following closely enough? Am I supposed to understand these connections that are being made? I just kind of gave up, and I think it turned out I didn’t, it didn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. The movie will just eventually tell you, and it doesn’t, and that’s fine. 

Craig: To be fair, it all lines up.

Yeah. But it is very, it is very contrived. It is a very complicated web they weave, but everybody is connected in some way and they’ll explain it to you in great detail. When necessary. 

Todd: When necessary. There will be a nice monologue to put everything into place. 

Craig: Yeah. Even at the very end, when the villain, it, as it turns, okay, so the first half of the movie is the regular story basically, which of course.

There’s a headless horseman and people are scared of it, blah, blah, blah. And then Ichabod’s scared of it and it confronts him on a bridge. And that’s the end of the regular story in the movie. Then they figure out who he is. He’s some spirit that’s coming back from this tree. The tree of the dead, he, he bursts forth out of this tree supernaturally every night and just steals somebody’s head.

And then they figured out who it is. Now we know that it really is him. Then the second half becomes a mystery because somehow Johnny Depp figures out that it’s not really just the Headless Horseman, but somebody is controlling him because they stole his skull out of his grave, buried at the tree, and he just wants his own skull back.

And so that’s why he’s going around killing people. So somebody is controlling him. And when it’s revealed who the. who the villain is, that person then gives a huge monologue that connects all of the pieces.

Todd: Information that is deliberately withheld from you until she can give her monologue and her big reveal 

Craig: Well, one of the things that I was very confused by I did understand like all of the old men All of like the town old men who are in charge of everything all of them were connected and I got that there were like sex scandals and All kinds of things going on there.

I understood all that the one thing that I didn’t understand and i’m glad Because this was also another One of my favorite parts of the movie was there was a young family, a husband and a wife and a child, a young child. Like a baby, like a four year old, I guess, maybe, or tiny. And she was a midwife and we, we saw her early on in the movie.

She and her family popped back up later. And then there’s just one scene where the headless horseman just goes after them. Breaks into their house. Yeah. Yes. And, and the mom and the child. are in the back and he just like he fights the dad and then he cuts the dad’s head off and then the mom puts the kid under the floor and The headless horseman just like relentlessly comes for her and chops her head off, too.

Now Mind you, the kid is under the floor, but he can see everything that’s going on. I was Shocked. Yes, like I was I was shook This was so dark to me 

Todd: Her head falls to the floor rolls towards a gap in the floorboards to the point where he’s looking up into her dead eyes 

Craig: I, I was genuinely shocked. And then the horseman starts to walk out, but he stops in the doorframe and turns around, and goes back in and starts axing through the floor right above the baby.

And you don’t see 

Todd: it on camera, but he kills that baby too. Yeah, you, all you see is, it’s the outside and the horseman’s coming out of the house and he’s stuffing a third smaller head into his sack. Oh my 

Craig: god! I, uh, mad respect to Tim Burton for doing that, and I read that he said that’s one thing that he hates about horror movies.

Horror movies with kids, the kids are safe, and he didn’t want to do that, and man, that was dark. I was, I, I was legitimately shocked. 

Todd: It’s amazing it made it into the final cut because you could have easily cut that. Like, it was almost shot with the idea that it could possibly get cut. And it didn’t. It’s amazing.

Craig: Yeah, it, oh, absolutely. They could have easily cut with him just walking out before he stopped in the door frame. Okay, so that was a part that I loved. I’ll volley it to you. There are other parts I want to talk about, but what were your favorite parts? There’s 

Todd: the part where he goes out and the only, I can’t remember what this kid’s relationship was, this, this little boy.

that he ends up kind of partnering with. 

Craig: Okay, so his, his dad was the servant of one of the guys that got killed early on. He was Martin Landau’s servant. Oh, 

Todd: okay. 

Craig: And then he got killed too. Oh, 

Todd: okay. So it’s kind of a little orphan kid now. 

Craig: He’s a little orphan and, and Ichabod takes him on as a servant, basically adopts him.

Todd: Yeah, okay. So then he’s the only one who’s willing to go into the woods with him to seek down the headless horseman because he figures if he can find him, I don’t know what he’s hoping for, but he’s just gonna try to find him. So he wanders into the woods and it’s just great because it’s just all of these very typical horror movie things.

They come across an old hut in the woods and it looks exactly like a witch’s hut, a fact that they walk into and immediately start stating. It’s a 

Craig: cave. It is. 

Todd: It’s like a cave in a rock just in the middle of the woods, but not in the side of a mountain or anything, just. Sticking out of the ground and they go in and it’s so funny because you walk in and it’s a classic witches hut and immediately Ichabod is shaking and he holds his gun up and he’s 

Clip: like I should like to say that I make no assumptions about your occupation.

No your ways which which which which Nothing to me whatever you are 

Craig: Each to his own

Yeah, it was really funny. 

Todd: But anyway, I thought this sequence was genuinely scary, and I really liked this bit. I did too. It’s kind of thrown in there, but uh, it just gives him the necessary direction he needs. Because how in the world is he going to find this headless horseman just by walking straight into the woods?

So, the witch is able to chain herself to a table and conjure up a drink. this thing and I mean even this is pretty like again for kids especially pretty gruesome like oh yeah too scary chops the foot off of a of a bird and gets possessed by some spirit of something and leaps onto him and I don’t know what that was I mean it’s all kind of she 

Craig: she turns all ghosty faced and like Snakes come out of her eyes.

Her eyes disappear 

Todd: somehow. Anyway, loved that bit. Very Halloween. Very scary. Very fun. And she’s the one who tells him the directions, which is to go west on the Old trail to where the sun dies. Well, that’s West. And then, uh, to the, to the tree of the dead. Now, I guess they don’t explore these woods too much, right?

Cause you would think the locals would know all about the tree of the dead, but the tree of the dead is deep into the woods and it’s this giant, awesome looking tree that kind of looks a little bit like a. Man or, you know, something twisted sideways and it’s got all these roots at the bottom and when Ichabod walks up to it You can see the tree itself is bleeding and I just I liked this bit.

I thought yeah, I did too You know what’s gonna happen when they find the grave of this of this horseman? Is he gonna not be in the grave? Is he gonna be around the grave? Like Now they can come back to it, like, what’s the deal? Can they just, like, chop off the body or like, what, what’s gonna happen? And the fact, I think the conceit is that once the Headless Horseman was buried there, this Tree of the Dead kind of grew up around it and became a gateway to hell?

Craig: A gateway to another world is what, or another dimension or something, is what Ichabod Crane just figures out. 

Todd: On instinct, 

Craig: right? Yeah, yeah. But he’s right, because the, that’s the, like, gate, the, like, the tree opens up and the horse and the horseman just gallop out of it. And it looks cool, I like it, that’s fun.

That was awesome. I also think that it’s cool that, like, the horseman, every time he, He takes somebody’s head, he literally takes it, like he, he doesn’t leave it behind, but apparently, I don’t really understand this, but I guess, like, mortal flesh can’t cross over, because the heads are all just there at the gate.

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: And that’s, he finds them there, and then at the end It’s 

Todd: like a little head storage place, it’s like he’s squirreling them away like acorns inside the tree, it’s kind of 

Craig: Well, I actually thought it was that he was trying to take it with him, but he couldn’t. Oh! The gate cuts. stuck at the front and that kind of explains the very end, right?

Todd: Oh, I think I missed that bit, but you’re right. 

Craig: Yeah. I think he, he tries to take them, but he can’t. There’s no need to tease. We’re almost out of time at the very end. We find out who the bad guy who’s been controlling. The horseman is, and that person, I’ll still save it I guess, that person, he grabs and tries to take back with him, but that person gets, like, squashed, like blood just shoots out of the tree and their arm is just left hanging.

Todd: Sticking out. Yeah. Oh, that makes sense then. Okay, I wasn’t quite sure what that was supposed to mean, and now I know. 

Craig: Something else that I liked. was the throwbacks to the Disney cartoon. And there were several of them, and I loved that. At one point, Ichabod is going over the bridge, and the frogs underneath the bridge are 

Clip: going, Ichabod!

And 

Craig: that comes directly from the cartoon, the iconic scene, the scene that they would tease in the commercials every Halloween with the headless horseman rearing his horse up on its hind legs and him headless with a flaming jack o lantern held over his head. They recreate that scene in this and he throws it at Ichabod and it does exactly what the Disney cartoon does with the camera is just right in front of the flaming jack o lantern as it’s moving forward and then it hits Ichabod.

Oh God, I loved that. And in that scene, it turns out that that was not really the headless horseman. That was Brom playing a trick on Ichabod. And that is the reality of the story. Or at least that’s what’s strongly implied. Yeah. That Brom was just playing a trick on Ichabod, but Ichabod was so scared and humiliated that he left town and started a new life.

So I loved that. Didn’t love Christina Ricci. I love Christina Ricci. I am like one of the biggest fans of Christina Ricci. I love her. I didn’t care for her in this movie. Maybe it was just because she was cast opposite. He, I don’t know. It’s not, she just looked like a child to me. It 

Todd: was really hard to get over that.

Craig: So it was weird to think of her. It was weird to think of her in any kind of romantic context because she looked like a child. But 

Todd: you know, I was thinking about that and It’s not unusual for the time Either this was a time where men in their 20s were marrying 14 year olds, right? That’s true. That’s true So it wasn’t improper, but it just doesn’t feel right when you’re seeing it from a modern in a modern day movie 

Craig: well, and their I I felt like their romance was so forced like they barely shared any screen time and like they Immediately fell in love and like she had known him for five seconds before she gave him You A book that her mother had passed down to her?

Like 

Todd: Yeah. 

Craig: That’s true. 

Todd: Whatever. But she’s also more of a plot device, I think, than anything else. True. Because there’s constantly suspicion being cast back and forth as to whether or not she might have something to do with what’s going on. And so, you know, there’s sort of that aspect to it as well. I don’t know.

I didn’t mind her in this movie. I just didn’t think she was that great. Just like, I thought Johnny Depp was a bit uneven and in all this, or maybe just his character was. I just loved seeing all the old, older actors. It was 

Craig: just, it was so 

Todd: great. 

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. Maybe we’ll think of more things to talk about, but I’m just going to go ahead and say, I think that you should 100 percent watch this movie.

Because I think that you listener might like it more than I did. It is a good movie. All of these people in it are, you know, there are, there are Oscar winners in it. There are Oscar nominees in it. These are established, respectable. Actors and for a good reason and and Tim Burton is great just to see all of these old guys 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: you’ve seen in a million things, but then also to see Really great set work.

It’s it’s it’s so difficult for me because I really have no Specific legitimate complaints. It just didn’t work for me for whatever reason but you should 100 percent watch it and then let us know what you think Cause I am genuinely curious. I don’t hear people talking about this movie. It’s not like I think it’s some kind of classic or even like a cult thing.

Yeah. Um, it, it seems to me like it kind of came and went. It’s true. So I don’t know. If you’re a big fan, please, please just tell me what, why I’m wrong. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s funny that you should mention that actually, because come to think of it, I’ve always been aware of this movie. And I think in my mind, this movie was a big deal when it came out.

And maybe it was, it certainly grossed a lot. Like 200 and some million over the course of the year, plus who knows what else. But at the same time But if I really think about it, I haven’t heard or seen much of it since. I mean, there’s a lot of movies from this era that we haven’t. I mean, No. Does anybody talk about Bram Stoker’s Dracula anymore?

Craig: Nerds like me do, but I don’t really hear a lot of talk about this one. And, this would be, you know, we have been in the Thick of the time of year where streaming services and cable services are going out of their way to provide horror and specifically Halloween content. This seems like this would be ideal.

Yes. I haven’t seen it. I 

Todd: haven’t either. It was hard to find. You’re right. So, uh, seek it out wherever you can. Definitely watch it. Definitely. That’s our hot take on it. Anyway, I guess I’m, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t really like particularly love it, but I certainly didn’t hate it. It just wasn’t, it wasn’t even what I remembered it being, to be quite frank with you.

And I’m not quite sure why. So, but, but still dripping with Halloween atmosphere. 

Craig: Oh yeah. I love that stuff. Like, Jack o lanterns. The very, very first scene has a great. Big scarecrow with a jack o lantern head and I read that it was the Scarecrow from the nightmare before christmas. 

Todd: Yeah, it’s exactly that one.

It’s cool. 

Craig: And there’s a big halloween party It’s a great halloween party 

Todd: Like you said, I encourage our listeners to respond and let us know what they think of this movie and give us some perspectives that maybe we lack here. The way you can do that, to let us know, is just to go to our website, ChainsawHorror.

com. We have all of our episodes up there, including this one. You can leave a comment on it, or of course, you can just search for our podcast anywhere. Two guys and a chainsaw podcast is what we’ll send you to any one of our places. Of course, all of the podcast hosting services, our YouTube channel has a comment section on it as well.

And of course, I just mentioned our patrons page, uh, patreon. com slash chainsaw podcast. If you are at all, a member of our patrons, you’re going to be having a lot of fun with us this Halloween because we have a few mini shows that we’ve been posting as supplements to what we’ve been doing. I’m really looking forward actually to talking about this cartoon and the story behind it as well.

So get in on that action, patreon. com slash chainsaw. podcast. There’s no better time than now. Until next time, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw

With its catchy Broadway-style songs, all-star cast (including Tim Curry as the Grand Wizard), and super-cheesy 80’s green screen special effects, this family-friendly flick follows the mishaps of Mildred (Fairuza Balk) as she clumsily bumbles her way through witch school – but ultimately saves the day in the end, of course.

We also talk about the links between this film (based on a bestselling children’s book series) and the Harry Potter franchise, and Craig and Kristen sing a duet or two. It’s an episode for the whole family. Enjoy!

Episode 211, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: And joining us today is longtime friend of the podcast and personal friend of mine. This is Craig’s sister, Kristen. Say hello to the people, Kristen. 

Kristen: Hello, people, and happy spooky season! Yeee! Halloween! 

Todd: We’ve had you on here several times before.

Let’s see, what have we all talked about? We’ve talked about the world ending movie, the home invasion one.

Kristen: Home invasions, yes. Did I do the Monster Squad? I think I did the Monster Squad. Did you? Yeah. I’m pretty sure. 

Todd: We, we brought you in for a couple of, at least a couple that you and Craig used to watch incessantly growing up.

And because today’s episode is the long requested by many, many of our listeners over the course of probably every year, I think we’ve done this podcast practically during Halloween season, we’re doing the worst witch, uh, TV show special from 1986. You and Craig, I understand watched this a lot growing up and that’s why we’ve got you on.

Thank you. 

Kristen: Yes, probably millions of times. 

Todd: Wow. I’m not 

Kristen: even exaggerating. 

Todd: Millions of times. Well, twice 

Kristen: already in the last month. 

Todd: It’s even continuing into adulthood. I gotta admit to you guys, I’ve never seen this or heard of it before in my life. 

Craig: What now I can understand maybe not seeing it, but I can’t understand that even knowing about it.

I mean, I heard, I 

Todd: knew about it when we started doing this podcast. And every time we asked for a Halloween possibilities, somebody comes out of the woodwork. If not a half a dozen people are like, are you going to do the worst witch? I just, I just remember that so much from my childhood. It’s such a goofy movie.

And I’m like, what is that? And I had to look it up. 

Kristen: I’m so happy to hear that people have requested this because I kept telling Craig, what in the world would we do? Talk about, this is not a horror movie, only an hour long. I had such anxiety about it that I had nightmares last night. I dreamt that we were all together and that Todd was being really passive aggressive the whole time.

And you just, you kept bringing out buckets of Halloween candy. Like, I really didn’t want to get this out. I really need this for tomorrow. But you just didn’t know what else to do. So I think my subconscious was worried that this would go terribly wrong. 

Todd: I want to see that movie. This 

Kristen: No, 

Todd: I just Seriously, like, people request it all the time, and I just I guess it aired on HBO?

It was It was done in 86, but it was a British Production, or at least it was produced in Britain. And it did show at least a little bit on some television over there, but then immediately, I think it was commissioned for HBO. And so HBO was showing it every year up until the mid 90s. Yeah. And the Disney Channel as well, I think.

Did you see it? Would you guys have seen it on HBO or the Disney Channel? Or where would you guys have seen it? 

Craig: HBO for sure. And at some point we videotaped it, but I do remember that they played it every Halloween. Um, and they would like tease it. Like they would show clips from it to tease it. Oh gosh.

So exciting. 

Kristen: Yeah. I would have said that we recorded it off of like a free week trial week. Yes. Yeah. And then that’s probably right. 

Todd: We did so much of that HBO and the Disney channel, you know, you get that free preview weekend or whatever, if you are a cable subscriber and it would, it’d also be like, they’d throw their best stuff up there, you know, cause they’re trying to get you to subscribe.

So you’d have that VH. We always had a tape ready to record, like everything that was coming on. And, and you’re right. Those would be our staples. Those would be the things that my sisters and I. Would pop in whenever we wanted to watch something. And so we would, we’d watch the same things over and over again with the same commercials.

Craig: I’ve been excited about talking about this for like weeks, but I’ve been thinking about it. And Kristen and I watched this so many times, not entirely, but in part out of necessity, I wonder, and Kristen, I’m glad you’re here. Cause you have kids. You can tell us, do kids have these things anymore? Do they have these things that they watch over and over and over again?

And. 

Todd: Well, 

Craig: have like strong connections to because they’re so inundated with media from every angle They don’t they don’t have the necessity of rewatching things because there’s always something new to watch. 

Kristen: Yeah, so my kids are older now They’re 16 and 13 But we certainly my son Kai had movies when he was a kid that he wanted to watch over and over again like the spy kid Franchise he loved those and we would watch them over and over and over but Once we were like giving them iPads it kind of ends it like he will not even watch a movie these days We’ll say we want to watch it.

Like I don’t watch movies and it’s true. He watches YouTube and he watches tik tok He won’t watch movies, but they watch stuff. They’re just not interested in movies and it’s really sad This was like our whole childhood and even now it’s we really enjoy doing it 

Todd: You know, my son is seven, and we have purposely tried not to inundate him with media, you know?

And we’re very deliberate about what we, what he watches and what we let him watch. But we, but we try to be reasonable about it, you know? We don’t want to isolate this poor kid so he gets to school and, you know, nobody knows, you know, he can’t relate to anybody because he doesn’t know what anything is.

But that said, like, I’ve seen these tendencies with him too. It may be a little too early to tell cause he’s only seven, but he’s in second grade. And the other day when he was over here, he, we, we put in a movie that I thought he would like, I don’t remember what it was. And the first thing out of his mouth was, Oh, This is a real person movie.

I don’t like to watch real person movies, daddy. What he meant was live action. You know, he’s so cartoon centered, but also like YouTube centered, like he watches Minecraft videos. And again, we are very frugal, you know, with what we allow him to, we don’t give him free reign over YouTube and it’s actually a treat for him.

But I, I see that pattern, you know, I, I even see that with myself. It sounds weird, but it’s a bit of a commitment to sit down for an hour and a half when, when you’ve got little bits and snippets of things that you can watch throughout the day at your fingertips, you know? 

Kristen: Right, but then you’ll realize you’ve been looking at, like, YouTube or scrolling on something for like three hours.

An hour and a half, right! I guess I could have watched a whole movie. My daughter will still watch movies with me. She loves Halloween. And so, um, I had just listened to your Goosebumps episode and I was like, I can’t believe I haven’t watched Goosebumps. I read all those R. L. Stine books when I was a kid.

So Keely and I watched that yesterday and we both loved it. So she’ll still watch the occasional movie with me. 

Craig: Well, that’s good. I can’t even get Alan to watch movies too long. Well, he has, I considered asking him to, uh, rewatch it with me, but he wasn’t. Interested. So no, I didn’t make him watch it this time around, but well, I certainly still enjoyed it because you’ve never seen it before and I’m hesitant to even ask because I told you going in, I said, Todd, it’s not a good movie.

It is. Looks old as hell. The like, it’s a made for TV movie from the eighties. And like the effects are like, they are just green screening the shit out of everything. Um, So I, I’m hesitant to ask, but what did you 

Todd: think? Well, don’t forget. I put it on the list, right? Like, uh, that’s true. You did, you picked it.

I fully understood what I was getting into because this is no different in many ways than all of those TV movies. That we would see from this era 1986 square in the middle of the 80s Cheaply produced, you know, the special effects are going to be cheap They’re going to be video the thing was was it shot on video some of it was definitely shot on video Some of it was clearly shot on film, but again cheap video green screen effects God, even the copy that We found to watch is just again.

I felt like I was back in front of my, you know, 10 inch screen. Was that’s as good as it gets. I have it on DVD. Oh, really? That’s what it always looks like. Still no better. It always looks the same. You can’t clean up a picture. Like you just can’t. It would, because when people clean up movies, it’s, they take them back to the pristine original, you know, those, those original negatives.

They were nice, you know, with a nice, well shot frame. Movie on film even a low budget one, but you know this crap shot for TV is half TV cameras And I mean, it’s just cheap So it’s never gonna look good unless you get some AI in here to like add add elements that were never there in the first Place. So yeah, I knew exactly what I was getting into and I was fully prepared for it I was surprised when I started watching it.

I was like, this is Harry Potter 1. 0 Um, so the girl 

Kristen: version, 

Todd: it is, it’s the girl and I mean, come on, there’s so many elements in here of Harry Potter that I had to wonder, was this a genre that JK Rowling just kind of picked up on and ran with? Or certainly she was directly inspired by this in some way, shape or form.

Craig: Yes. Then troll. 

Todd: Yeah. You talked about that too. Troll. 

Craig: This is jumping way ahead, but this is. Uh, one of three screen adaptations of a children’s book series that began in the late seventies. And I knew Kristen, you had said that you saw that there was a series. I just assumed that you were talking about the one that happened.

I don’t remember pre 2000, more recently two series. Yeah. Yeah. I 

Kristen: think that’s a new one. 

Craig: That’s what I’m saying. There is, well, it’s not new, but it started in 2017. And just out of curiosity, I popped it on right before we started talking and Mildred Hubble is played by Bella Ramsey. The girl from The Last of Us?

Todd: Really? 

Kristen: I don’t, I don’t, I haven’t seen that. No kidding. 

Todd: The main girl from The Last of Us. 

Kristen: Yes, the main person. 

Todd: That would work. They 

Craig: are non binary, but the main person from The Last of Us is Mildred Hubble in that. And, and literally I, I just popped it on right before we got on. So I only watched like 10 minutes, but it felt even more Harry Potter.

Like she’s just a normal girl in her apartment and she happens to see witches flying towards this castle, but nobody else can see them. And then one of them, Maude, who is also a character in this. movie that we watched. 

Kristen: One of my favorite characters. Like, me 

Craig: too. She’s my favorite. 

Kristen: I already want to talk about my favorite line, which is in the very beginning when they’re going in to take their potions test and Mildred says, But that’s cheating.

’cause she’s gonna take in her book and she’s like, right, . I just love her. She’s funky, she’s 

Craig: hilarious. And she’s got Mildred’s back all the time. I don’t know, I guess we should start at the beginning. Yeah. I, 

Todd: I never answered your question, but I suppose that’ll get answered as we go along, . Uh, well, generally speaking, you have, do you under, 

Kristen: do you have to pretend you’re a child?

I do. Exactly. 

Craig: I do. See it from our point of view. Yes. Like you saw this when you were a kid. 

Todd: A hundred percent. And, and I could even put myself there, you know? And I think that’s the saving grace of all of this is that, you know, I remember watching shows like this and loving shows like this. Even though I had not watched and loved this particular one, I totally get it.

You know, none of the aesthetic really bothered me too much. In fact, it was a little nostalgic and kind of quaint to go back and remember, oh yeah, this is what it was. And then. When Tim Curry comes on screen, my eyes are, you know, three inches away because I love Tim Curry to death. No matter what he’s in, I will watch that man.

And then he started his musical number and I was so full of joy. 

Kristen: What you were being for Halloween this, Oh my God. 

Todd: Yes. 

Kristen: As soon as you see the grand high wizard, I 

Todd: just need 

Kristen: song and dance. 

Todd: Yes, and I will prance around just like he did and spin and have that cape with the extended it. It’s like you hold these rods and you know, your cape extends beyond your hands into these rods.

You, oh, come on. 

Kristen: It also kind of reminds me of like ribbon dancers. Yeah. With their ribbons. It’s like this. Yeah. 

Todd: I’ve seen this. What it 

Kristen: was. Todd, I don’t know if you ever, when, in your childhood, went someplace like Six Flags, for example, and they had the room you went in with all your cousins, and you made a music video.

And it was a big green screen, and it was exactly what his number was. Oh, yes, 

Todd: exactly. Yeah, the booths, right? Where they were like, you’d pay extra. Yeah, and you can 

Kristen: bet your bottom dollar. We have done that before. 

Todd: With this song? 

Kristen: No, with this song. They didn’t have that in the book. Oh, I 

Todd: thought you were gonna drop this bombshell on me, but yeah.

Oh no, yeah, 100%. That’s exactly 

Craig: what this was. 

Todd: I 

Craig: would pay a thousand dollars if we could find that video. Oh my god, I 

Kristen: know. Our name was the Tidal Wave 5. I remember. 

Craig: Wow. Oh, man. That 

Todd: brings 

Craig: me back. And we did 

Kristen: old time rock and roll. 

Craig: Oh, God. God. I remember doing it, but I couldn’t, I didn’t remember what we did.

Oh, that’s funny. The thing 

Kristen: is, guys, these are the things, like, we do these things with our cousins. We watch this movie with our cousins all the time. And we had so much fun growing up. watching these crappy movies. They weren’t crappy then, we thought they were the best thing ever, but this was our childhood.

Todd: We sound like old people when we say this stuff, but we 

Craig: are, we, I mean, we’re not old, 

Todd: we’re not getting 

Craig: older though. And it’s, it’s, it’s bizarre because I find myself turning into my parents, both of them. And I’m just like, Kids these days. 

Todd: No, but we have an excuse because tech we’re quite young still but like tech has moved super fast So these things that were so quaint were just a few decades ago Whereas for our parents quaint things were like, you know, 50 60 decades ago like, you know technology Automobiles.

Yeah My grandma talking about being pulled in a horse drawn carriage, but like this kind of thing Yeah Is so far removed from, like, you can do a green screen crap in your apartment now with your phone and you don’t even need a green screen behind you. Like, it’ll just, No, and it would look way better than this movie looks.

That’s 

Kristen: what I was gonna say, and it looks way better than 

Todd: So like, even that, this wasn’t like super impressive, but at least like it was cool movie magic to have this kind of green screen stuff. And just like you said, Kristen, the most bad ass thing in the world for you to be in a place where you could sing and dance in front of a green screen and put together your own music video that looked just like this on TV.

You know, 

Craig: Oh boy. Yeah, it was a different time. Well, it was a different time, but I’m glad that you could at least appreciate it. But honestly. I love every second of it. This, this movie is only an hour and 10 minutes long. And it’s not even really that long with like the credits and stuff. I have as many notes on this movie as I have on any movie that we ever do.

Well over a page, single space. Every single thing that happened, I was like, Oh, this is important.

Well, so I’m obviously not going to be able to go through all of that, but we should, at least at some point, talk about what happened. 

Todd: Can I just say real quick on the production value they filmed it I think at an actual college But it looks like your classic English boarding school just straight out of Harry Potter or something like that.

So they filmed it there and so Immediately for me just because maybe because I’m American maybe this wouldn’t impress you if you went to a boarding school like this But you know, okay kind of high production value real British people speaking with real British accents Mostly, yeah, not all of them. 

Craig: Mrs.

Garrett’s accent is questionable. Yeah, well All 

Kristen: of her bits are questionable. 

Craig: She’s the main Charlotte Rae from, uh, The Facts of Life. The Facts of Life, yeah. She’s Wisconsin 

Todd: Galilee. So like, you know, okay, production value. And then you kind of look at the fact that you’ve got, they’re doing their green screen.

Some of the, um, the broom flying sequences, I was impressed with how they were able to shoot that on a limited budget with obvious green screen and still make it halfway decent. It actually wasn’t. I mean, it looks cheesy, but you know, it kind of works for, for, for that. But then there were just random elements of cheapness that I could not get over because in the very first scene, when, uh, the two girls pile and took their potions class, like you were talking about, they walk right into this classroom and put past.

A blow up plastic skeleton that is hanging in the room, you know, this is like a potions class. It’s a school It’s like a science class at the very least They’re supposed to be like a giant human skeleton or a plastic skull or whatever for anatomy study that they’re going past But what they literally walk by is a blow up plastic halloween decoration 

Craig & Kristen: I couldn’t believe that is so true 

Kristen: I have never noticed.

Craig: You 

Craig & Kristen: didn’t notice that? 

Craig: either. And I, no, I haven’t either. And I’m sitting here thinking, that’s not important. 

Craig & Kristen: Let’s 

Todd: talk about the movie. It’s important to me, Craig. It’s important to me. 

Kristen: It’s not as important as the music in this movie. 

Craig: Okay, let me, let me just do this. Just kidding, I never 

Kristen: noticed that.

That’s funny though. I’ve never noticed that. I haven’t either. 

Craig: I did for the first time ever notice this time that they have a poster of David Bowie in their bedroom and I thought that was cool. Oh yeah. So this is Miss Cackle’s International Academy for Witches founded in 1604 and it’s run by Miss Cackle who is Charlotte Rae, beloved actress from the Facts of Life.

I love her. Uh, actually started on different strokes. Facts of Life was a spinoff of that. She’s fantastic. Mildred Hubble is our main character and she is the worst witch because she’s just clumsy and absent minded and she’s played by Firuza Balk, who I am a huge fan of. Kristen can attest to the fact that I had, uh, the craft poster.

On my bedroom wall all through college. Wow. 

Kristen: He thought he was a witch. 

Todd: Really? Well, He wanted in 

Kristen: their cool girl witch club. And I can only, I 

Todd: can only assume you guys were as traumatized by repeated viewings of Return to Oz as we were as children as well. 

Craig: Absolutely. Dramatized and traumatized. Enamored, another of my favorite movies.

That’s another movie that we could definitely do on this podcast and Kristen should join us because that movie was f ing scary. 

Kristen: I called Craig and I said, we should be doing Return to Oz because that movie is scary. 

Todd: That’s actually horror. 

Kristen: Those Wheeler guys. 

Todd: Oh 

Craig: God. And the witch in there with 

Kristen: the 

Craig: head.

Save it. Save it. We’ll do it one of these days. All right. So Mildred is the worst witch. And she’s got a friend, Maude, who’s funny, I love her. And then there’s the bully, Ethel Hallow, and she, uh, I also, like, I don’t love Ethel Hallow, because she’s a total bitch, but I do love her because she’s a total bitch.

It’s hilarious. Okay. So that’s, so that’s the setup. Okay. And so then it’s just a cute story about, uh, Mildred being awkward and, you know, bumping into people and making a whole line of witches fall down and just bumbling and stuff like that. And it’s hilarious. But Kristen. Bye. Yes, the music is the best.

Are we going to sing? 

Kristen: Well, I did call Craig when he said, well, you were going to do this movie. Will you do it with us? I said, I texted him back and said, I just sang the whole opening credit song just to see if I could. I, 

Craig & Kristen: I get twisted up in the words sometimes, but the opening, the opening song 

Kristen: in the style.

That it is meant to be sung. I don’t know what that 

Craig & Kristen: means. As 

Kristen: cheesy as it is. 

Craig: Okay, okay, wait. Alright, you’re going to have to help me with the words though. Cause I, I get, I get mixed up in the first part. Growing up isn’t easy. 

Craig & Kristen: Scared of, scared of every move you make. How much? How much can a young girl take me on the wall?

You’re 

Kristen: slow. 

Craig & Kristen: Who? Who’s the worst witch of the, this 

Kristen: isn’t going well. You’re too slow. It’s hard to 

Craig & Kristen: do on, uh, on video chat. Yeah. ’cause there’s delays. I can, yeah. I think, I think one of us is on a delay. 

Clip: Growing up is easy. Scared of every movie

much. Can a young girl take

who’s the worst witch?

Craig: I could sing that whole thing. 

Kristen: I can say the whole movie. I realize I have the whole thing memorized and it brought back memories of, I think I would. Like, stand in front of my mirror and do these lines like I was in the movie. Like, not even while watching the movie. I would just then do them later. Every time certain lines would come up, I was like, Oh, I remember doing that.

Craig: I remember too. I remember just throwing the lot. Like, when Mildred and Maude are making potions and they’re supposed to be making this laughter potion. Um, and all the other girls know what they’re doing and they’re doing it really fast. And Ethel is being perfect and a bitch as she always is. Um, like, they have no idea.

So they start throwing shit in and they’re like, I 

Clip: think we need 

Craig: pond 

Clip: weed. That’s right! Oh, we gather it at midnight. How much? Oh, I’m not sure. Just throw in a handful. Fuck. Oh, two handfuls.

Throw her in the lap.

Craig: And then it doesn’t, it doesn’t make them laugh. It turns them invisible, which is a way better potion, which they agree. That it is, if only they could remember how they did it. This movie is so funny, Todd. It is. It’s 

Todd: got a lot of humor. I mean, it’s just a throw everything in the kitchen sink in the air kind of, kind of movie.

You know, I like that. I mean, the kids movies were like that. If you can get a little gag in, If you can get a little laugh in, just throw it in. It doesn’t have to be sophisticated, right? 

Craig: The shoes bit when they’re invisible, like, doesn’t even make any sense, but it’s still hilarious to me that their shoes are like moving 

Kristen: around.

It’s also like, is it a musical? Is it not a musical? There’s a couple songs and dances. There’s there’s music in the background, but then there are two actual musical numbers. So it really is. Let’s throw a little bit of this in here. This is what this movie needs. 

Todd: I will tell you as a kid I was, I always res resented the fact that a kid’s movie, it was seemed obligatory that there had to be at least one song in there.

I was like, why can’t they make movies for us that have no songs in them at all? But, uh, the TV movies, not 

Craig: me. I was like, more songs. Yeah. I don’t know. We 

Kristen: like the song and dance. He’s sound like my husband. 

Todd: But, uh, 

Kristen: they say that happy people have a song in their heart. Oh, 

Todd: my cold, dead, shriveled heart has no room for song.

Kristen: Even as a child, apparently. 

Todd: Oh, yeah. Oh, 

Craig: my God. It was born that way. That’s so funny. Yeah. So Mildred and Ethel have this, uh, Rivalry. And that’s a thing apparently. Um, but also outside the school, miss cackles, evil twin sister, Agatha and her lackey Delilah are spying and listening to the girls, uh, sing the school song and Oh God, I, I wrote it down cause I wanted to say it so bad.

I don’t remember what it was, but she’s like, How dare they? They’re ruining 

Clip: my school song. Was mine by birth. Mine before my sister stole it. She was always mom’s favorite. I was jealous of me. What did I care? She 

Craig & Kristen: had a miss. Cackle has this terrible. 

Craig: Miss Cackle’s, uh, accent, her British accent is not great, but the Southern accent is hilarious to me.

And Delilah is another one of my favorite characters from this movie. 

Kristen: Delilah is like, they found the crazy drunk woman on the corner and just said, Hey, put this on. Be 

Todd: in this movie. 

Kristen: We’re going to put some makeup on you and just be yourself. Walk around on this fire. She was, she’s something. 

Craig: She’s funny, she’s bug eyed, and oh my gosh, hilarious.

And I don’t know, you know, what do y’all want to say about the plot? I wrote every single thing, I basically have the script in front of me, so if you want me 

Clip: to perform 

Craig: it, it’s only an hour long. 

Kristen: Well basically all one really needs to know is Mildred is the clumsy, uh, ingenue of this story and Ethel’s the bully and then there’s some conflict because the evil twin sister is lurking and she wants to get her school back because there’s another number about If you’re filthy, smelly, evil, wicked, and cruel.

Yes, so she wants the school to go back to creating these evil, filthy, cruel witches. So that’s the conflict. You know, somehow Mildred’s gonna have to save the day. And she does. So, anyway, that’s the whole story. 

Todd: Well, the evil witches, they, they drop out of the picture after they’re introduced, pretty much, and don’t pop back in till pretty much the end.

I was, uh We 

Craig & Kristen: check in with them from time to time. Oh, maybe once. 

Todd: Maybe once. If not much. No, no, no, no. I, I, no. Most of it’s focused on the girls and their wacky hijinks and these kids who are just relentlessly cruel to, uh, to Mildred. Poor girl. And she’s 

Craig: nothing but sweet. She is. And she’s absolutely lovely and adorable and I love that her friend Maude sticks up for her.

And silly things happen. Who’s the mean girl? Oh gosh. Who’s the mean girl? 

Todd: What’s her name? 

Craig: Ethel is the mean girl. Oh okay. Ethel 

Kristen: Hollow. 

Craig: They play this game called Terror Tag. Which 

Kristen: I always wanted to play. But how Stupid. The things that scare people who are supposed to be witches. 

Craig & Kristen: I’m 

Kristen: terrified because you stuck your tongue out.

Craig & Kristen: I’m like, held your 

Craig: eyebrows up. Oh, but that’s, that’s what it is. Like you run around and hide and you try to scare you’re in two teams and you try to scare the opposite team. And every time you can make somebody from the opposite team scream, your team gets a point. And apparently young girls will scream at the sight of anything.

Kristen: That’s actually true. I work in an elementary school. They scream all the time. 

Craig: Oh, yeah. I have worked in an elementary school too. There is a lot of screaming. But it was funny to me, and Ethel, because she wears It’s a scary mask and makes, uh, Mildred scream like a hundred times, 11 times. I got 

Kristen: to say, as an adult, Mildred is not as cute to me.

I was like, well, she is really annoying to scream 20 times when you see a mask on clearly. Your classmates body, 

Craig: right? And you, you knew it was Ethel. You were trying specifically to scare her the whole, but that whole sequence was silly because why would any, especially if the goal was not to scream. I mean, I guess the game wouldn’t be very fun if nobody screamed ever, it’d be zero zero all the time, but it was kind of silly and honestly, watching it back, this isn’t Farooza Balk’s best performance, but she’s adorable and I love her and she has such, she always has had, obviously, since she was a child and still has a very unique And I think very beautiful look.

She has these icy eyes and I loved her in the craft. I will never say a bad word about her unless she does something stupid. And then I might, but up till now, I’ll never say a bad word about her. Cause I’m such a fan, but this movie is not going to be nominated for any awards. 

Kristen: Now that we have that cleared up.

Todd: I was on pins and needles wondering I What I really liked was that they were again It was like a kitchen sink kind of movie wherever they could get a gag and they could and I have to imagine that there Were other characters in this book series that they just popped in just because they thought they would be fun like Mrs.

Cackle has a niece Donna who’s who flies in and has a family Telephone on her broom, which was kind of a funny gag. She was funny. And, um, this, uh, woman who comes in, is it Miss Spellbinder? 

Craig: Miss Spellbinder? Yeah. Like, 

Kristen: that’s who I wanted to be. She missed her phone. Oh, she was 

Craig: awesome and hot. 

Todd: She, yeah, she’s like an Amelia Earhart of flying brooms.

It seems like she’s got that out 

Craig: there. She’s head, she is bedecked and head to toe. Red leather 

Kristen: She has a blue unitard, but then she has red leather and there’s like a big spider web on the back of her cape Yeah, he has those like sassy red boots. Yeah, I wanted to be her. She was really cool 

Todd: Very cool.

This is starting to sound very not childlike by the way the way you guys are describing 

Craig: this No, but when I when I I know but when I say head like literally like the the boots and then like she’s she Well, she’s you can see part of her face And she’s even got goggles on in some places, so she is completely covered, but the actress is beautiful.

But I also feel like she’s played up to be the one that they all kind of look up to. Like she’s the cool, hot one. 

Todd: Yeah. And it’s also supposed to be like that classic, like flight suit, right? From, you know, And she teaches 

Craig: flying and talk about Harry Potter. Like Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: that scene looks like it’s like Harry Potter lifted it right out.

I mean, I don’t know. How else do you shoot a flying instruction thing in front of a castle? I guess if you’re going to shoot that, it’s going to, yeah. 

Kristen: Did anyone else notice that every class last. Approximately five minutes at this school, like there’s, she said, it’ll take you three minutes to make this spell.

Then it was like, class dismissed. And then, and this one, of course, Mildred, she has an accident with her broom and she hits the bell and they’re like, Oh, there’s the lunch bell. It’s been like five minutes. Class dismissed. I 

Craig & Kristen: want to go 

Kristen: to this school. 

Craig & Kristen: Yeah. Two. 

Kristen: Is the end of terror tag when Mildred gets her revenge on Ethel?

Yes. Yes. Okay. That’s a great part. So we know from prior, uh, footage in this film that Mildred is not great at spells, okay? But she, she gets so ticked off at Ethel because she’s being so mean and she’s like, she cheated, she cheated, she wore a mask, that she says she’s gonna turn her into a frog or a toad or something.

And, um, Ethel’s just like, okay, go ahead and try. So all of a sudden, Mildred just has spells in her mind in the same, Words. And she, um, she tries to, to turn her into a frog and she does turn her into something but it’s not a frog. She turns her into a pig. Not really sure how that happened but Ethel is a pig is one of my favorite characters in the movie.

Todd: Yeah. It’s fantastic. She’s still bitchy and whiny as a pig. She’s 

Kristen: still very bitchy and whiny but you’re looking at a really cute pig while she does it. That’s true. So it’s great. 

Craig: Oh god. Ethel tells Mildred like hurry up and and Mildred’s like you hurry up. She’s arguing with this pig and she also like she’s also Oh, I’m really sorry, Ethel.

I didn’t mean to turn you into a pig. And Ethel’s like, I’m gonna get you, Mildred Hubble. And you’re right. Like, we’re just looking at this pig speaking in her voice. Hilarious. 

Kristen: I actually thought for early 80s that those, uh, when she’s turn changing her back to Ethel and it kind of closes up on her eyes.

I thought that was pretty advanced for the time. I thought that effect looked pretty good. It was 

Todd: almost like a morphing effect, wasn’t it? Yeah, yeah. I was impressed, yeah. 

Craig: I don’t know, to me it, it, it all looked like film. Like it, it didn’t even look to me like they necessarily did anything With makeup. It was just like they were just kind of superimposing the pig face over her face and and gradually like fading the pig face out and fading her face and it 

Todd: just lined up really well.

You know, 

Craig: it did. It did line up really well. I liked it. I liked everything. I liked everything about this 

Todd: movie. We know that. 

Kristen: You made it clear. 

Todd: The big thing is that then there, there’s some kind of something going, Oh, the visit by the grand wizard because the grand wizard only chooses one school to visit every year at Halloween time.

Is that right? Every Halloween, yeah. Is it Charl uh, Miss Cackle? Who’s really into 

Craig: Well, everybody is 

Kristen: all swooning. It had never 

Craig: occurred to me. I, I just read this, uh, in the trivia, but it had never occurred to me that Tim Curry is the only male character in this movie. It never occurred to me. Um, but yeah, they’re all swooning over him.

I think it’s so. Sweet and funny when the girls are all passing around a photograph of him and like 

Todd: kissing it, 

Craig: holding it to their bosoms and kiss. 

Kristen: I thought it was so funny too. But then at the same time, I was like, man, you can tell they’re the only, like, there’s only girls at the school. Cause even as a young girl that confused me, like he’s not cute girls.

This is, uh, I dunno, Kristin then , I think we might probably, this was surely after, uh, he did Rocky Horror and I’d probably seen him in that first and thought, I’m not even sure he’d be into you girls . Oh 

Clip: no. So, 

Kristen: um, anyway, that was a little confusing to me. But then of course once I saw his music video. I was like, I get it.

I hadn’t seen his tambourine. Now I get 

Todd: it. Have you seen my tambourine?

As he pulls it out and is hitting it. Oh God, it’s so good. 

Kristen: That sounded like a different kind of movie. But no guys, we’re actually talking about a tambourine. 

Todd: No, wow. You know that, I don’t know if you guys did a deep dive into this or not, but do you know who did the music for this? 

Craig: Uh, I read it, but it wasn’t anybody that I Recognize.

Todd: Okay, Charles Strauss and Don Black, uh, collaborated on these. Um, Charles Strauss, uh, he’s a composer for Bye Bye Birdie, Annie, lots of things you wouldn’t imagine when you see this film. And, uh, All Dogs Go to Heaven, all those kinds of things. Don Black, the lyricist, same thing. He even did lyrics for a lot of James Bond themes, believe it or not.

Kristen: Maybe somebody knew him and they were like, Hey, I need a favor. Like, can you whip this out? Yeah, it sounds like I’m talking about a different movie again. Can you, can you, you got it started, talking about him pulling out his tambourine and hitting on it. Um, but maybe, because these lyrics are not, I know I did, sorry.

Clip: Um, 

Kristen: but yeah, these lyrics, These don’t, these don’t show a lot of time and effort. They don’t, at least in the grand high, they don’t. 

Craig: Oh, no. Oh God. They’re so funny. I wish I could remem I, I The lyrics are all about 

Todd: something could turn into something else. 

Clip: Anything can happen on dog into a cat. There may be a toad in your best guitar, or your sister could turn into a bat.

Todd: Um, but like, no, that doesn’t actually happen on Halloween. Of all the things you could list off that could happen on Halloween that I’ve never seen that. No. There could be a 

Kristen: toad in your guitar. Bass guitar. What? A 

Todd: toad in your bass guitar? Where did that come from? 

Kristen: I’m like, listen, I like Halloween. I’ve never once seen any of these things happen on Halloween.

I think these happen on an acid trip. 

Todd: It’s overselling Halloween considerably. 

Kristen: Yeah. But! 

Craig & Kristen: Yziva is a blast! 

Kristen: Yes, then he talks about the other Halloween, or the other holidays, like April Fool’s Day even, he throws in there, like, that’s a big holiday. Right. 

Todd: Arbor Day. He’s also, like, like, 

Craig: seriously, this is Tim.

Curry, who is amazing, just hamming it up in front of a green screen for, for all it’s worth. There’s no way that this took him more than an hour. No, no, 

Kristen: especially because at some point you can actually see him like reading the words as he’s singing it. They’re just like, Hey, make up any tune. We don’t care.

I’m just seeing these words. Oh 

Craig: God. Tim Curry is doing his Tim Curry thing with his voice. Wow. But on Halloween, your blood begins to run. He’s really hamming it up. He 

Clip: really is. This Harry, scary, creepy Halloween. Harry. Really?

Kristen: And his mouth. I mean, that’s the thing, like Tim Curry’s mouth. All you can see is Pennywise as he’s singing parts of that. 

Craig: Yeah. He’s got that lip curl thing down. 

Kristen: Anywho, we kind of jumped ahead. 

Craig: That’s okay though, because all that happened before that is that they found out that he was coming. And because he’s coming, they’re gonna do this, like, broomstick promenade or something or whatever.

It’s 

Todd: like, um, it’s sort of like synchronized swimming for broomsticks, I guess. 

Craig: Exactly, exactly. And there are tryouts for it, and Miss Hard Broom doesn’t like it. Mildred and doesn’t want her in it. But after the tryouts, one of the girls who made the team is sick or something. So Mildred gets put in. Why she has a broke, she could have chosen any girl.

Well, I thought. 

Kristen: So I work in a school and every now and then you get those mean teachers who need to retire. And Ms. Hardroom is so one of those teachers because she’s like watching her fly. She’s like, Hmm, that’s pretty good. Who’s that? Oh, no, she’s like, that’s exceptional. 

Craig: Yeah. 

Kristen: Yeah. So she just doesn’t like her.

So she gives her a crappy score, but then, so it kind of tracks, she’s like, well, she could do it. She was pretty good. 

Craig: Oh, right. I mean, it doesn’t 

Kristen: really track because she wouldn’t ever pick her. 

Craig: Exactly. Cause it doesn’t read in the movie. It doesn’t make any sense that she would pick her. 

Todd: No way. She’s not the one who sabotages her.

I’m sorry. 

Kristen: No, no. Ethel. 

Craig: No, it’s Ethel. Yeah. So Mildred makes it, but then Hardbroom sees that Mildred’s broom is broken because she’s crashed it before. Well, you can’t fly with a broken broom. And so Ethel holds up her hand and says, I’ll loan her my spare broom. And then Ethel goes to get the broom and I can’t find it in my notes, but she does a spell, like she talks to the broom and she’s like, listen up.

Clip: We’re going to fix Mildred Hubble. Once and for all, fire and alabaster, drummy, canaster, when I say, faster, I order, disaster.

Kristen: That’s like Ethel’s best acting as well. 

Craig: Oh, it’s great. It’s fantastic. And all of the spells are like higgledy biggledy, beep beep boo. And 

Todd: bippity boppity boo. At least Harry Potter kind of upgraded it and made it seem like skill was involved in learning spells. Right. 

Kristen: Right. This was just like, say some rhyming words and, you know, something will happen.

Literally, Mildred’s to turn her into a pig was like, mumbo jumbo biggity boo. Like, those were the actual words. Humble 

Todd: bumble. 

Craig: I’m 

Kristen: not through!

Anywho. You guys are having way too much fun. The spell on the broom. And it’s all because Mildred didn’t have a, you know, a Nimbus 2000. Hers was ugly 

Craig: looking. Exactly. And so then they do, so, you know, Tim Curry shows up, like he flies in Todd, as you said, with an enormous cape, like he’s holding two brooms at the end of each arm and he comes in.

It was funny to me that you said, Oh, and then Tim Curry came in. And then when he broke into his song, because I had kind of forgotten, like he literally just shows up, says a line and then starts singing. 

Todd: And then when he’s done, he leans over and does that whole Tim Curry. I’ve got to split. 

Clip: I’ve got another gig.

And 

Todd: then flies off. I 

Kristen: also didn’t understand, did he control the castle looking like a jack o lantern? Because as soon as it blew up, it wasn’t a jack o lantern anymore. Oh, I don’t know. That looked really cool. On Halloween for the Grand High Wizard is the only time these girls get to wear makeup and, like, feel sparkly and pretty.

Because I remember thinking they look so cool for that air show or whatever they were doing. They all got to put makeup and sparkles on and put, like, fake hair in. And they turned your capes to the neon green side. One of 

Craig: my favorite lines in the movie is when they’re getting ready and Maude says, 

Clip: Sometimes I worry about my nose.

Do you think it’ll ever get big and sexy like this one? 

Craig: She puts a big warty witch nose on her face. 

Kristen: I like when Mildred says, how do you kiss with a nose like 

Craig: this? 

Kristen: You don’t. You don’t. 

Craig: I don’t remember. 

Kristen: They’re just cute. 

Craig: They’re adorable. 

Kristen: It was way earlier, but I like, I just like Maud because she’s like, she doesn’t care about anybody and they’re talking about hard room and she calls her HB and she’s talking about, I don’t imagine anyone kissing HB and that’s like the part when I was little that scared me and the part now as an adult where I’m like, how does she just like, appear all of a sudden because that’s when she showed up and anyone who’s seen it knows where she is.

Is that so? Is that 

Craig: so? That was one of the parts that they always showed in the preview. That part and Tim Curry after, so they do the like broomstick thing but, um, Ethel says faster and it makes Mildred’s broom go crazy and they all crash. All of the teachers are mortified and Tim Curry says If these are the witches of the future, I 

Craig & Kristen: hate to think what the future will bring.

Clip: Those 

Craig & Kristen: are the two lines that 

Craig: they always showed. Uh in the trailer, oh gosh 

Kristen: Anyway, yeah, so that’s what happened. You just you just said it they do the air show But then of course ethel says faster and the broom goes crazy. So they all fall in a pile And then he leaves 

Craig: so she cries on her not black cat Tabby, and like, Tabby, 

Kristen: I 

Craig: have to run away.

Oh, 

Kristen: pause, pause. I cannot get through this without talking about why they felt the need to have a human voice, Tabby. Every other cat just needs to have their regular cat. This is me going, Like it’s talking, it’s communicating with . She’s like, you think so tabby? Yeah, it makes no sense. Oh my God. And it just really, I was like, why?

Why is hers the only cat that’s like, and it’s talking anyway. It’s hilarious. 

Craig: So she runs away and she is. in the process of running away when she happens upon the evil witches in the forest and she overhears their dastardly plan and spies on them and eventually they smell her. There’s a stranger among us.

Kristen: It’s a little bit like a witch, like Roald Dahl’s 

Craig: witches. Yes. Yes. Like they find her and she’s like, Oh, I know what I’ll do. I’ll turn them into snails. And so she stands up and reveals herself and. The evil twin is like, get her. And they’re all like, ah, coming to get you. And they’re moving like they’re 150 years old, moving towards her.

Kristen: And making like terribly annoying sounds. 

Todd: Yeah. And throwing a few spells at her. Oh my 

Craig & Kristen: god, there was the one The buckshot spell? 

Todd: What the 

Craig & Kristen: hell? And then they do! The buckshot is exploding all around her. 

Kristen: I could not get over that. They don’t have good aim. 

Todd: I just figured because, you know, they were real cheap on the special effects.

They’re like, well we can make some things explode behind them. Alright, well it’ll be a buckshot spell then. Like, whose idea was that? 

Craig & Kristen: Delilah 

Craig: says Soften her up with some buckshot spells. Ew, gross. Yeah. But then she’s successful and she turns them into snails and she puts them back in their box, which is, it’s like a cigar box, but it’s labeled Acme spell company or something like that.

And she goes immediately back to school where she takes it to Miss Cackle and Miss Hardbroom. We haven’t really talked about Miss Hardbroom. She’s really mean to Mildred all the time. And at this point, like, she doesn’t even believe Mildred’s story. And she says she should be expelled. Do you guys 

Kristen: know Kat Von D?

Craig: She looks 

Kristen: like Kat Von D, like if Kat, before she had face tattoos and before she then covered up all her 

Clip: tattoos. 

Kristen: She looks just like her, I think. Who I think is a very beautiful woman, she just is interesting. But I also was desperate to try to find some things, uh, to talk about with this movie, which turns out I guess it wasn’t a problem.

But, um, she played Hedda Gabler in the movie. I saw that. Which totally tracks, I could see her playing that. Oh, she’s a Sorry, that’s for the theater nerds. 

Todd: We’re talking about, we’re talking about Diana Rigg? Yeah. Yeah. She’s a Bond girl. I mean, that girl, she was a bombshell. Yeah. And in fact, she was in Game of Thrones.

Uh, she died, uh, a few years ago, but not before she was in Game of Thrones. Olenna Tyrell. I recently saw 

Kristen: that too. Yeah. I haven’t watched Game of Thrones, but I saw that 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah, she’s, I, I mean, she’s just a beautiful woman. She has a, like, her cheekbones, like, her bone structure is just insane, um, and she plays this really well, but she’s, like you said, Kristen, they’re really, I, I hate to admit it, but it’s true that they’re, not all teachers are good teachers, and some teachers do Target 

Kristen: and they have their favorites and you know, that’s, you know, from the beginning, Ethel’s her favorite because that whole family produced the, her, the hollow family has produced another winner or whatever she says in the 

Clip: beginning.

Craig: So she doesn’t even believe Mildred at this point, but Ms. Cackle does. And she’s like, did the leader of the witches have a name? And Mildred’s like, yeah, somebody called her Aggie. And Ms. Cackle says, Oh, I believe her. It’s my. My wicked twin sister. And then I love the part where Miss Cackle and Miss Hardbroom talk to the snails.

Clip: Aggie, now step forward. Just look at you, Aggie. Crawling on your tummy. That’s what you get for your evil ways. 

Craig: But they antagonize her a little bit and it’s funny and then they do come back and 

Todd: There’s some great snail close ups by the way. Really, really fantastic. Yeah, 

Kristen: they all fall out on real snails.