2 Guys And A Chainsaw - A Horror Movie Review Podcast

It’s our 150th episode!

To celebrate, we decided to return to our roots. We started this podcast with the Wes Craven film, The People Under the Stairs, and so we tackled one of our favorite Freddy Krueger films, A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: The Dream Warriors.

This iconic entry in the franchise set the stage for a series of successful sequels and is responsible for cementing Freddy Krueger into the pop culture forever. It may not have aged particularly well, but we had a hard time giving too many harsh words to this favorite from our childhoods. Do you remember it well? Give this a listen and let us know YOUR thoughts and memories from this movie.

And a special thanks to all the listeners who have stuck with us through the years. Here’s to another 150!

Episode 150, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, Craig, we’ve made it to a 150. It’s hard to believe. Happy 150th, my friend.

Craig: And to you too, friend.

Todd: So just as we started out this podcast with the people under the stairs, with one of our favorite horror directors, Wes Craven, we thought we would come back to our roots as it were by doing a Nightmare on Elm Street part 3, the Dream Warriors.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: One of his more iconic, movies. We’ve done the first Nightmare on Elm Street. We’ve done Nightmare on Elm Street 2. So why not do number 3? As soon as you, suggested this I think you suggested this one.

Craig: I did.

Todd: All that’s been going through my head all week long has been.

Craig: You know I love it when you sing.

Todd: I know you do. I had to get that in. Oh, man. I I Oh, gosh. This movie. Right? This this that song. I I gotta talk about the song real quick. Yeah. You know, this movie was big when I was okay, we’re talking 1987, so I would have been, what, 3rd grade or 4th grade or something like that. But, man, this song was all over the place. It was on the radio. The everybody was Freddy Krueger, this and that and the other. I was obsessed with Freddy Krueger at this time. I don’t think I’d even seen the first two Nightmare on Elm Street. I was a little too young for my parents to allow me to do so. Your parents might have allowed you to do so.

Craig: Well, I remember this was one of those movies that my dad had on VH well, not this one. Excuse me. The original was one of the ones that my dad had on VHS, and, I wasn’t allowed to watch it. Like my mom was adamant that I was not allowed to watch this, the first one.

Todd: So naturally, you watched it.

Craig: Yeah. So so I watched it when they were, I don’t know, asleep or gone or something. But, yeah, this one, I always cite this one as being one of my favorites of the sequels, and it is. You know, we like I like you said, we’ve already done parts 1 and 2. We also did, New Nightmare

Todd: We did.

Craig: Which I also love and also cite as one of my favorite sequels. But this one, you know, it was fairly early, in the whole Freddy days, and this was the one where it really kinda started to pick up mainstream. I mean, the first two did well for horror movies, but it was really by part 3 where Freddy Krueger really entered the lexicon of pop culture. And you’re right. He was everywhere. He was making appearances on MTV. It was either during this one or maybe part 4 when he had, like, his own, like, 97 6 number for a while.

Clip: Call Freddie.

Todd: Yeah. Right.

Clip: Foolish friends, Freddy Krueger is on your phone. Dial this number now. I’ve got some tales to tell. Freddy’s favorite bedtime stories. Bedtime stories, all brand new and straight from my boiler room to your home. It’s pretty cool on your phone. So dial this number It’s Freddy Unger on your phone. And so dial this number now if you dare. Tell them Freddy sent you. $2 per first minute, 45¢ each additional minute. Children, get your parents’ permission before you dial.

Todd: I wanna know what Freddy said on the 976 number. I mean, what what did he do on that? Just call up and he just, like, berate you for a while?

Craig: Yeah. I guess so. I can only imagine.

Todd: Maybe he told ghost stories. I don’t know.

Craig: And this this replays, you know, they they play, Nightmare on

Todd: Elm Street

Craig: Marathons on American Cable

Clip: fairly regularly and so I I catch this one, every once in a while, but I always,

Craig: you know, catch it it kind of in the middle or I’ll see, like, 20 minutes of it or something. And this is the first time that I’ve sat down and watched it from start to finish in a long time. And while it certainly shows its age, I still really appreciate it because this is kind of the one this one in part 4. Part 4 did the best of all of them as far as as making money is concerned. This one, I think, is, like, second or maybe 3rd in terms of money making. But this one and part 4 are kind of the ones that bridge from Freddy being super dark and scary to really jokey and and comedic and and funny. And I I like my Freddy however he comes. I like the I like the dark ones. They’re fun. He is certainly scary. You know, the mere idea, of him, you know, this nightmare demon or whatever he is that can get you in your sleep and nobody believes you and there’s really not a whole lot you can do to protect yourself because everybody has to sleep, that’s that’s scary in and of itself. And then later on when it started getting a little bit more comedic and he was popping seemed

Clip: rather to take so much

Craig: joy in playing seemed rather to take so much joy in playing this character and really making it his own that I I’ve really, enjoyed every one of his incarnations of it. I mean, we can just go ahead and completely ignore ignore that terrible, terrible remake. Robert England, you know, Robert England is Freddy Craig, and, he’s this movie, I think, just has one of the coolest premises of all of them Yeah. And, some good performances and some great kills, great ones, some great Freddy one liners. We’ve got the return of Heather Langenkamp, who I love from the first movie. I’m never gonna say Heather Langenkamp is an amazing actress, but I love her. Yeah. No. She’s really not. But I love her in these movies. And then you’ve got just some really cool stuff. Like, this was Patricia Arquette’s first movie.

Clip: Mhmm.

Craig: And she, you know, she went on to be an incredibly successful actress and, you know, a renowned actress in both film and television. You’ve got Laurence Fishburne.

Todd: So funny to see Laurence, like, very young Laurence Fishburne doing a a Samuel Jackson. Yeah. In a way, it’s like, wow. Like, Samuel Jackson really hadn’t been around yet, but it seems like he’s doing a great Samuel Jackson impression in this movie.

Craig: He well yeah. And, you know, he’s billed as Larry Fishburne, which is hilarious. And, he’s got a relatively small part, but at the same time, he’s good at it. You know? Like Yeah. He’s a likable character even though he’s a very small character. Just a lot of really another okay. So another one of my favorite movies from the eighties, and I can only assume that there are hope, I guess, that it’s one of yours too was Stand by Me. Are you a fan?

Todd: Yeah. I’m a fan.

Craig: The guy who played, River Phoenix’s older brother, in the movie, his name was Eyeball. He’s in this movie, so it was a big recognizable face for me there. Just a a lot of cool stuff, going on. And like I said, it does show its age. But, from a nostalgic perspective, I still am a big fan of this movie.

Todd: Yeah. I I have to say, this had also been the first time in a while that I’d seen it Todd, so I was so excited to get back. And just like you said, I also cite this as one of my favorites. I’m gonna have to say that this time around watching it, you’re right. It shows its age and that bothered me so much. It really did. I mean, I still enjoyed it, and I like it for what it is, but I don’t think I can any longer say I I I’ve got you know, I used to kinda pit this one in New Nightmare a little bit against each other. I used to say, okay. The first one is the best. It’s just so good in every way. And then this one in New Nightmare, oh, I can’t say which I like better. I think at least after now, I can definitely say I like New Nightmare a lot better than this movie if I have to rank them in order, you know? And, and and and that’s because it’s a little overwrought at times. It gets a little dramatic, in moments. And also I was a little surprised seeing at this time how slow it is. I mean it really takes its time introducing the characters and showing us all these people, and I I I can’t I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing, but I remembered there being a lot more Freddy in this movie than it turns out there really is.

Craig: You know, that’s so funny because that’s one of the things that I was actually impressed by how fast paced it was. Really? I mean, yeah. I mean, things are happening all the time.

Todd: Well, that’s true. And and I I don’t mean to say that the plot isn’t moving forward. It’s definitely moving forward. But the stuff that we kind of expect to see in a Freddy movie, you know, these kills and these whatever like that, I felt like that was really spaced out, and we spent a lot more time outside of the dream world than we did inside the dream world. And and the scares, I thought, were were pretty far between and and pretty much, all piled toward the end of the movie, I thought, the last third of the film. And and that’s not how I remembered it being, you know.

Craig: Yeah. I I agree with you that it does get pretty, you know, dream heavy at the end, and I actually found that to be a little bit disappointing because some of the scenes that I remembered happened so quickly Yeah. In the end, and I didn’t remember them going by so quickly and I wish that we would have spent a little bit more time with them. I mean, I still enjoyed them, and I thought they were really creative, but they just it it seemed like they realized, oh, we’ve got 30 minutes left. Hurry up. Yeah. I know.

Todd: And I was watching this with my dad and my uncle, and and we’re we’re over here. Actually, we’re back in the States now, for this week for, kinda to celebrate Thanksgiving. And so, I’m here with them and I said, hey, you guys wanna sit down and watch this movie? Neither of them are horror fans. We’ve had my dad on here once before and it was a blast and I thought, well, maybe he’d like to join us for the podcast. And honestly, after watching it with them, they were both kind of disinterested in doing the podcast. It kinda proved to me, and I think looking at a little bit through their eyes that I think unless you are already a bit of a Nightmare on Elm Street fan, unless you’re already kind of invested in this character, this isn’t really the movie for you. It’s least it’s maybe not the movie to start with.

Craig: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I agree with that entirely. You have to be a fan. You have to be invested. This movie, I think, you know, in I I love reading, you know, behind the scenes stuff and because, you know, this came out in 1987, it was, what, 30 years ago and and it’s been popular. It’s it’s one of regardless of how we judge its quality now, it it remains one of the most beloved sequels in the franchise Mhmm. And people typically cite it. And so, of course, people are going to talk about it. And, it was just interesting to read some of the backstory. You know, Robert Engle or excuse me. Not Robert Engle. Wes Craven was not interested in making Nightmare on Elm Street a franchise at all. In fact, he did not want the open up the open ending that, Robert Shea wanted for the first film. He didn’t want it to be open for a sequel, but Robert Shea insisted. And then when they went forward with making Nightmare on Elm Street 2, Craig didn’t wanna have anything to do with it and he didn’t have anything to do with it. But the success of the sequel convinced him that, it could be a franchise and so they were able to get him back on board for this one. And he wrote a treatment of the script that basically kind of followed the same plot line that this one does except it was on a much grander scale, and there were some significant differences. This one is centered around these Elm Street kids. It it’s later revealed that they are the last of the Elm Street children, the last of the children whose parents killed Fred Kruger. And and they’re all having terrible dreams and so they end up getting put in a mental institution, basically. And they’re all there and they turn out it turns out that they all have, like, dream powers, and so they kind of band together to fight Freddie. Wes Craven’s initial script for this had that same basic premise, but there were some differences. Instead of coming back as an outsider and a professional, Nancy, from the first movie, was a patient in the the hospital with the other kids, and it was just much more grandiose. Like, one of the dream warriors was able to, like, turn into some big, like, transformer style, robot at the end. And one of the characters who made it into the final script, Kinkade, could fly, and another character who made it into the script, Taryn, could turn invisible. And the studio liked the general premise, but they knew that it was way outside of their budgetary restraints and so they brought in a different screenwriter and they changed some things up and it became what it was. Robert England also had written a treatment for the 3rd installment, and his installment was titled Freddy’s Fun House. And it was supposed to center around the sister of Tina, who was a character in the first movie, who is one of the first people killed. And she was supposed to start having all of these dreams, these macabre dreams about her sister’s death. And, of course, you know, that led her to investigate and she ended up back in the Springfield and, or Springwood, whatever the name of the town is. And it all centered around the house from the original, Nancy’s house from the original, and Freddie had kind of turned it into a Home Alone style booby trap carnival type house, and he would lure people there and trap them and there would be all kinds of memorabilia from the previous two films. Mhmm. And and the studio liked some of his ideas, a lot but, then they eventually decided to go with what we ended up with. And, you know, all of those different treatments sound like they have promise. There was also an initial concept was to have Freddy come out into the real world and start haunting the actors from the first two movies, which was rejected by the studio but ultimately revisited when Wes Craven did New Nightmare.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: So there were all kinds of ideas floating around, and this is what they settled on and I’m not disappointed. I like it. I like this concept. The dream warrior concept I think is really clever and I I frankly, I wouldn’t mind seeing it revisited at some point if we get any future Nightmare films.

Todd: Yeah. And actually, I was a little surprised again how my memory fails me a little bit. In that, this is obviously, you know, the concept and the way that they’re going with it is it’s almost this Avengers style. You know, they all assemble, and they’re supposed to each have their own powers to battle Freddie at the end. Yet, in the execution of it, they’re quite weak.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah.

Todd: You know? And and it’s not quite what it sounds like we’re describing. You know, you would think there would be this major battle scene at the end where each person is using their special dream powers to get the one up on Freddie. But as it sort of turns out, their dream powers kinda pop up and then they get offed. I mean, it it it’s just pretty quick, like, so and so is gonna be a badass at her dream and and then she die. I mean, we’re gonna talk about all this, but but then she dies, like, within 5 minutes, and the same thing with at least a couple of the other characters. And then when it comes to the finale, it isn’t really a case of where their collective powers bound worked together to to fight him off, you know. It’s really just a game. Right. Just a sort of other circumstances that that make it happen. And so in that way, it’s a little disappointing, I think. I mean, it it it feels like there was even more promise there for something extremely clever and extremely interesting, and that’s the way it’s going. But instead and what I don’t know. You could maybe even say this is the strength of the movie, that it subverts your expectations here and sort of neuters these characters pretty quickly, which has the effect of showing Freddie as a pretty unbeatable guy.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: So, you know, it does that. But, you know, once again, it Todd doesn’t really give most of the characters much to do, for most of the movie. So that that’s, you know, it’s like a lot of setup, and then the payoff is not at all really what you expected.

Craig: That is totally fair. I guess my response to that would be, like you said, you know, it kind of subverts your expectations. But in the end, it really just kind of establishes that they go in there with this confidence and ultimately you can’t beat Freddie.

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: You know? Like, as as tough as you may be, you’re on his turf and it’s but I I agree a 100% with what you’re saying. The thing that kind of eases that for me is that these characters, at least the vast majority of them, are very very likable and so I enjoyed watching them together and I enjoyed watching them kind of inspire confidence in one another. Mhmm. And I was rooting for them.

Todd: That’s true.

Craig: Yeah. It was it was disappointing especially as we’ve already mentioned in the last half hour when some of them finally get their opportunity to to face off against Freddie and it lasts about 30 seconds and then, you know, they’re just very easily dispatched. It’s disappointing. But but at the same time, you know, I was sad to see them go. Like, I had an emotional investment in them and I was I can still appreciate it even though I think your criticism is totally fair.

Todd: They’re the underdogs, you know. It’s that underdog story and they’re all kind of losers in a way and they’re I mean, not all of their are making, but they all have these issues and they’re bonding, you know, the thing that kinda joins them together is this issue that they all have with Freddie and it’s the one thing that they can can work together. You know, it’s the one thing they can all sort of focus on and, and try to fix in their lives. And so, yeah, you are rooting for these people who all have these different issues. It’s a great premise. It really is. It starts out with, Kristen Parker who, is played by Patricia Arquette. And it has this, kind of a sequence of dream within a dream kind of aspects to it. But basically, what it starts out with is she’s kind of dreams herself into that, Elm Street house, the the one that’s in to kind of decay and decrepit and whatnot. She’s putting together a model of it that goes into her room. And she’s doing this to stay awake. So we we know she’s already being terrified by these dreams. And then, her mother comes in and, scolds her quite

Craig: a bit. She’s the typical Elm Street horrible, horrible parent. Yeah. Wes, all of the Elm Street parents are awful. They are. Hi, mom.

Clip: Don’t high mom me. What are you still doing up? It’s past 1. Just thought I’d wait for you. Well, I’m home. Now you can get to sleep. Come on. On delay. I’m really not tired. Kristen, don’t Todd with me. You know what your shrink said? He’s full of it. I I’ll let you get me into an argument. Not tonight. Now get to sleep.

Todd: And all of Wes Craven’s parents really are awful in most of his movies. And so then, anyway, she goes to sleep and she dreams herself in this house where she goes through and there’s a little girl and there’s the, you know, all of the stuff that we’re familiar with the with the nursery rhymes and everything. And Freddie starts to chase her, and then she wakes up. And, after she wakes up, she goes into the bathroom and, we get the really cool effects. That’s the thing, you know, that I also love about that you and I you and I both love about these movies too is as corny as they can sometimes be and as unrealistic as they can sometimes be, it’s still really fun to see practical effects again.

Craig: Yeah. Pre CGI. All practical.

Todd: And and the work that goes into it is just quite impressive and what they are able to pull off all practical is also pretty impressive. And so, yeah, you know, like her her sink comes to life and starts attacking her, turns into Freddy almost. He slashes at her at the same moment the mother hears screaming and comes in and interrupts her in the bathroom. And when she bursts open the door, she’s staying there with a razor blade in her hand, and her arm cut. Now we saw Freddie cutting her arm in the dream world, but then in this world, you know, she’s got a razor blade in her hand. And so her mother thinks she’s suicidal and then sends her to this, mental hospital. And that’s where she meets all the other characters that we’re gonna be spending the rest of the movie with.

Craig: The mental hospital is Westin Hills. Nightmare on Elm Street is pretty good about continuity. There are some things, you know, like Freddy’s abilities and stuff are a little questionable from movie to movie, but otherwise, their continuity is pretty good. Weston Hills plays a really significant part throughout this series. We find out in this movie that this is the mental institution in which Freddy’s mother was raped by a 100 maniacs and that was his, you know, inception. And then, of course, we have this whole movie taking place here. It comes up again several times throughout the series, and, it’s a primary set piece for Freddy versus Jason. You find out in Freddy versus Jason that kids are still being kept in Westin Hills, you know, dealing with their dream stuff. So, that’s kinda cool, you know, some of these little Easter egg things. We hear on Craig on the radio Laurence Fishburne, who is a an orderly. We hear on his radio that there have been a series of teen suicides in Todd. And then we meet all of these characters just boom boom boom right in a row. We meet Taryn who’s played by Jennifer Rubin. She’s kinda the tough girl. Her issue is that she has struggled with addiction, drug addiction in the past. Jennifer, who is the wannabe TV star played by Penelope Sudro, and, she has been self harming. She’s been burning herself with cigarettes. Now we find out later that she’s been doing that to keep herself awake, but, of course, they’re keeping an eye on her because of that. Philip, I don’t really know what his issue is. Sleepwalking. Sleepwalking. Sleepwalking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He’s the kid from Stand by Me, Bradley Craig. Kinkade is this tough black kid.

Todd: He’s just an angry black guy.

Craig: I guess. He’s just angry black. The institution. I read that he didn’t even wanna audition for this movie, but his agent talked him into it. And he had to he had to, like, go through the rain and bad weather to get there. And then when he got there, they kept him waiting for hours. And finally, when they when he got in to audition, the director was, like, just do whatever you wanna do. And he said the director, fuck you, and then started throwing stuff around the room. And the guy was like, you’re hired. Then there’s Joey played by Rodney Eastman, and he, apparently had been an orator in high school, a debater, but, now he’s mute, and the implication is that he’s been so terrorized by Freddie that he’s now mute. And we meet doctor Neil Gordon, the young, attractive male psychiatrist played by Craig Wasson, and then the uptight, grumpy, older doctor, doctor Elizabeth Sims, played by character actress Priscilla Poynter, who’s very recognizable. Yeah. They bring Kristen in and she’s freaking out because they wanna sedate her and she even grabs, a scalpel and cuts one of the orderlies. And the only person who is able to calm her down steps into the room, and that is Nancy, one once again played by Heather Langenkamp, who calms her down by making it evident that she knows what she’s talking about. And then it just it goes on from there. It’s the story of these kids and them trying to deal with their issues and nobody believing them just as is always the case in Yeah. These movies. Except in this one, they have an ally in Nancy who knows what they’re going through because she’s been through it, and she’s there to help. I just love that Heather Langenkamp is given kind of this hero arc

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: In this story because she was tough in the first one. She, you know, she was presented as this, you know, of course, the virginal sweet, you know, final girl, but ultimately, she was the only one tough enough to stand up to him, and now she’s back. And she is a worthy adversary, and I just love it.

Todd: Yeah. And this is where I think it’s this whole sequence where the movie shows its age just a little bit. There’s some kind of dated writing in here. It’s it’s very cliche now in the way that we meet all the characters where the doctor is going from room to room and there’s a different excuse for him to pop in on each of the patients. But when he does or when he when Nancy is, you know, looking around to them, he pops into the room, so we instantly get to see what their issue is because they have some witty quip or they have something they’re saying, like, yeah, they say I’m a sleepwalker, you know, that kind of thing. And then I thought that, at at this point where they have, Kristen cornered in the room, and she just starts reciting the, the the Nursery rhyme. Nursery rhyme, And then we hear somebody finish reciting the nursery rhyme. We turn around, and it’s Nancy in the doorway. The music swells and stuff.

Clip: 7. Hey. Better stay up late. 9, 10, Never sleep again.

Todd: I I know that, you know, probably seeing it’s the theater when it first came out, this is probably a big moment for everybody. Like, oh, wow. We’re getting to see Nancy come back. But at this point in this movie, it it all comes across as as pretty overly dramatic, I think. And and Sure. And a little too, Hollywood. I don’t know, you know. I think also it shows a little bit of its low budget nature that it’s got sort of this big budget mindset. But the reality of it is that the the acting is not always quite so Todd, and the cinematography is not quite so grand and even the score is a little disappointing at times. And so it all just seemed to fall just a little short of what I remembered, you know, in watching it this this time around. It is what it is. You know, it’s an old movie. That’s fine. Right. It’s just not as polished, as one would would hope it could be, you know, for the

Craig: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I agree a 100%.

Todd: But that’s fine. Nancy and the doctor, they end up talking and and and chatting, and she’s real coy about things. She’s not ready to jump in and talk, wisely so. Now ready to talk, jump in, and, you know, tell Neil, oh, yeah. Well, this is because they’re all having this problem because, you know, there’s a crazy guy attacking them in their dreams. Right?

Craig: Right.

Todd: But she does have this Hypnosil on her which he notices after she drops her purse and he picks it up. Again, you know, one of these hilarious little tropes, but anyway. Right. Yeah. That introduces Hypnosil, which factors in later as well Yep. In in later episodes. And so she’s taking this to suppress dreams. And he later goes back and looks it up on his computer, which I thought was funny too. He didn’t pull a book off the shelf. He pulled up his computer in the pre Internet age. He must have had, like, the encyclopedia. Floppy disk.

Craig: On a floppy disk. Like,

Todd: what was that? You know, I was a little shocked at that part.

Craig: Like, one of those big, like, 6 by 6 floppies. I’m sure.

Clip: This guy

Craig: I thought the same thing. He wants to

Todd: get floppy updates the mail so that he can stay

Craig: in Todd with all the latest

Todd: experimental drugs. But anyway yeah. So that’s that. But then, but then Kristen has another dream, and this is quite an interesting dream where she’s back in the house. And once again, you can really see the money that went into this as far as you know, practical effects. There’s a point at which she goes into a room and the whole room starts basically falling apart on her. And then what burst through the wall but this giant Penis. Snake. Yeah. It’s pretty phallic. And I guess I read, it’s you probably did too, that originally this was even more phallic looking than it looks in the movie. They had to darken up Freddy’s pinkish hue a little bit by throwing Yeah. Green goo all over him. So you get this big slimy Freddy snake that starts, eating her. Much in the same way, I think, as I don’t know which came out first, but remember, was it Poltergeist 2 when the, the worm and the tequila also gets big like this and

Clip: starts to

Todd: swallow somebody whole?

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: I don’t know that.

Todd: It’s very reminiscent of that.

Craig: I have to say that I found this scene to be very ambitious.

Clip: Oh my

Craig: gosh. And I thought that it looked great. I mean, I thought that really even by today’s standards, it looks pretty darn good.

Todd: Well, especially when, you know, when she gets, well, she pulls Nancy into the dream, and that turns out to be her dream power. She can pull other people in. Right. And so Nancy pops into the dream through, like, a broken mirror and she grabs a piece of the mirror and stabs the snake, which drops her. And then, you know, it’s back up and this head, which is looks just like Freddie in a really gross giant way, looks at them both and says a few words. And, you know, you know this is, like a puppet, and it’s really convincing. Yeah. Just loads of articulation on it. It’s dripping green slime. It looks at them. It’s floating there, and he’s like, oh, you again or something like that.

Craig: Yeah. No. It just looks at her and says, you and then she kinda freaks out and I love that. God, it’s just you know, when you’re invested in particularly, like, a series like this and you have that moment where these 2 iconic characters from the first movie come face to face and Freddie sees her and just says, you. It’s cool. And then they run away. Like, I can only imagine being in the theater opening weekend of this movie and that happening. I can just only imagine the reaction of the crowd. Like, it’s so exciting to see these 2 come back face to face.

Todd: Yeah. It was really Todd. Really good. We get 2 more kills, coming up, and this is, again, something I didn’t remember. I kind of remembered that all these characters sort of band together, but a couple of them die pretty early on. Yeah. One of them, Philip, who makes these marionettes Yeah. In his room. This is what I it’s hard to forget because as he falls asleep, Freddie, in his dream, slashes basically down each of his arms and down his legs Todd his foot, These long slashes. And then it’s like he like he pulls the veins or the tendons or something out and uses them to control him like a marionette walking down.

Clip: And

Todd: that’s that’s pretty disgusting and and inventive.

Craig: It is. And because and because they know that he sleepwalks, they don’t immediately intervene. Yeah. But be but before before that happens I mean, it’s a little tiny thing, but I just thought it was so cool. Like, you see Philip sleeping there and then it pans to his marionettes, and one of them that is very vague in form transforms into Freddie and it’s all done through stop motion like claymation. And it’s not like the most amazing stop motion I’ve ever seen, but it’s kinda cool and just the fact that it was pre CGI and they were doing all of this practically and, you know, I read that they they started with really the Freddie Marionette and then they just kind of kept making it more and more vague and then they reversed Todd the film. They played it backwards, so that it appeared that he was becoming more like Freddy over the course of just maybe, I don’t know, 2 or 3 seconds. But I it was so neat. Yeah. You know, the the kills in this movie, I just think are really creative. He marionettes the guy out through the halls, like, you know, some people see him, some people don’t through a chained and locked door.

Todd: Yeah. How does that work though? This there are a couple questions I had about this movie and that was one of them. Yeah. Like in the real world. I don’t know. Yeah. It seems to break rules just a little bit. Like, Freddie Freddie can manipulate them in their dreams, and it has an effect on the real world, but but, man, it’s like it just he just disappears through a locked door in the real world.

Craig: Right.

Todd: And that part I didn’t quite get.

Craig: No. Yeah. They play it fast and loose with the rules, but that’s not really uncharacteristic of the series as a whole. And then he ends up, on the top of this big tower and, all of the other patients see him and are screaming at him through a window and then you see, you know, like, enormous Freddy, like, looming over this tower, marionetting this kid and he just uses his blade to slice the tendon strings and the kid falls. And of course, the doctors say that he committed suicide or it was a sleepwalking accident and they won’t believe the kids and and that’s just kind of par for the course throughout the next few things. The next death I think is Jennifer. Is that right? The one who wants to be the actress? Mhmm. And this is one of the most iconic deaths in the series, period. Yeah. She wants to be an actress and so she’s up late watching late night TV and Laurence Fishburne, Max, I guess his name. I don’t care. Laurence Fishburne, like, comes in and tells her she needs to go to bed, but she’s like, oh, come on. Just let me stay up just a little bit. And so she’s watching late night TV by herself in the lounge and she flips to the Dick Cavett show. The was the Dick Cavett show on in our day? I don’t remember it at all.

Todd: I don’t remember it either. I remember Johnny Carson. I don’t remember Dave Cavett, but I guess he was. He must have been.

Craig: Yeah. He was a real late night TV host and they got him for this movie. They originally, casted a different actress to be his guest on this very brief segment. But, I guess kind of last minute they asked him, who would you like to have as the guest? And he said, I’d like to have Zsa Zsa Gabor because she’s the dumbest person I’ve ever met in my life. And if I ever wanted to see somebody killed by Freddie, it would be her.

Todd: I’m I’m sure that’s something they didn’t quite tell her when they cast it. I’m sure.

Clip: I’m sure.

Craig: Right? And I don’t know if he actually said it, but that’s what I read, so I’m going with it. So but it’s this funny scene where Dick Cavett is, interviewing Zsa Zsa Gabor.

Clip: Death study, work, and then maybe you can make it.

Todd: Can I ask you something?

Clip: Certainly. Who in the fuck would you think?

Craig: And stabs her and then the TV goes out like the station goes out. And Jennifer gets up and walks up towards the TV and Freddy, like, sprouts out of the TV, like, his arms come out of the sides of it and his head comes out of the top with the antennas coming out of his head and he grabs her and picks her up and says This

Clip: is it, Jennifer. You’re big breaking TV. Fuck the prime time bitch.

Craig: And he smashes her head into the screen, and she gets electrocuted. And it’s one of the most iconic moments, one of the most iconic and most quoted lines from the whole thing. And I guess that the first part of the line was what was scripted and they filmed it several times and Robert England delivered the line as written, but then they wanted a different angle and so they set up the camera at a different angle and he said the welcome to prime time line and the director liked it so much that he spliced the two lines together, and that’s what we get. And it’s, like I’ve like I said 3 or 4 times in the last minute, one of the most iconic lines, in the whole franchise. And I just, this it’s this movie I mean, if if you’re gonna talk about this franchise, you can’t not talk about this movie. It’s one of the best ones.

Todd: It’s true. And it is. It it’s and and it’s memorable. So one of the things though about this that I think is hilarious is I can’t remember who it is, who finally discovers her. I think maybe it’s Larry Fishburne or whatever, one of the doctors, but, you know, they open the door and they look in, and there she is hanging out of

Clip: the TV set.

Todd: Her head is inside the TV set. Her legs are off the floor, and the TV is all smoking. And then her death is also ruled a suicide just like the guy who fell off the roof. Right.

Craig: Like, she jumped up there. But shoved her

Todd: head through the screen? Like, how does that even work?

Craig: Meanwhile, there’s this subplot where, the doctor Neil I I think this is the first time that it happens, but it keeps happening. When he’s at Jennifer’s funeral, he sees this nun and he goes up and talks to her and she tells him that the only way to banish the evil spirit is to bury his remains or or something along those lines. And initially, he’s very confused by it, but he ends up bumping into her several more times. And as it turns out, even though the Elm Street parents killed Freddie, he was never given a proper burial and that’s why he can still do all this stuff and he needs to be buried in sacred ground or or something. But as it turns out, this nun is actually Freddie’s mother who was the one who was raped. She was left she was a volunteer at the hospital. She was accidentally left in this ward for the criminally insane. She was there for several days. She was raped hundreds of times, and when they finally got her out, she was almost dead, but alive and pregnant. And that mythology is introduced here and then is carried through, the rest of the series. So this is where we get the son of a 100 maniacs, a whole

Todd: storyline. And that’s kind of interesting. You know, like, from the first movie, we get Freddy’s a child murderer. At some point, it’s implied also maybe a child molester as well, you know, depending on how dark they wanna make it. But then it’s not just that this is a bad guy, but it’s like he was born from, you know, badness or whatever. Like, he was kind of destined to also be this bad guy. So they didn’t have to do that, you know, because Freddie at least the conceit is that Freddie comes back because he’s taking revenge, upon the parents who took the vigilante justice, you know, who Right. Took everything into their own hand and went and burned him. So that already has its makes its own sense. But then when you you add this additional layer of his mother being raped by a 100 maniacs, it’s like, jeez, how much more terrible can they make this guy this guy’s backstory?

Craig: Yeah. Well, they and they continue to build on it almost to a ridiculous point, like, in, I don’t know, 6, one of the worst ones, Freddy’s Dead. They introduced this whole thing about how when he was being burned by the parents, he was approached by these nightmare demons, and they’re the ones that helped him come back. It gets more complex, but at least they were, you know, giving us a little bit more backstory here.

Clip: Her child, Freddie, the bastard son of a 100 median boss.

Craig: Nancy finally basically convinces doctor Neil that she knows what’s going on and she tells him the truth and they all have this group session where she tells them you’re not Craig, you know, I’ve been through it too. He’s really this guy. He was a child killer and now he’s back in dreams and, she’s like, but Kristen is awesome and she can bring us into her dreams and all of you are special and you have these special powers. So let’s go under group hypnosis and we can all be together and we can figure out what to do. So Neil hypnotizes all of them, but at first, they don’t realize they’re hypnotized. So Joey goes off, like, he gets, he’s been crushing on this hot nurse who looks like she stepped right out of a. Yeah. She draws him away. And then the rest of them are just kind of talking and then weird things start to happen. Like, the doctor is playing with, like, those clicky kinetic balls that, like, you plop 1 and then the other ones go whatever. And they all start flying around, the room and so they realize that they are in the dream and so they all start revealing their powers. And it turns out that Taryn is like this badass, mohawk wielding, you know, kick butt girl. And the wheelchair kid will, can walk and he’s a wizard because he’s like a Dungeons and Dragons nerd, so he can do like wizardy stuff. Kinkade is super, strong, and Kristen can do gymnastics.

Todd: It’s a great superpower. Well, that on top of being able to pull other people into her dreams. So she gets, like, a double power there, I guess.

Craig: That’s true. So they’re all having fun, like playing with their powers or whatever. Meanwhile, Joey is being, seduced by this nurse. And she tells him she likes her or whatever, and then she immediately takes off all her clothes. She’s completely topless. She’s got these huge boobs. I mean, this this lady had to have been a model or

Clip: or something.

Craig: I mean, she’s gorgeous. You know, I didn’t read this on our usual sources, you know, our in-depth research. But I read that initially they had shot it so that it when it is revealed the way that it’s revealed that it’s Freddie now is she’s on topping top of him and they’re making out and she starts like biting and pulling out his tongue and she eventually shoots tongues out of her mouth and they tie him to the bed. Initially, there was going to be a sequence where from, like, the neck down, it was gonna be this actress fully topless with her boobs out. And from the neck up, it was gonna be Freddie’s head.

Todd: Oh my gosh.

Craig: And they just decided that it was too weird and gross. But if you look if you Google it, you can find the images because they shot it. I’ve never seen any video, but you can find the stills.

Todd: Oh, man.

Craig: And it is creepy and gross to see Freddie’s head on this, you know, big boobied lady.

Todd: Yeah. It’s so funny to read stuff like this, and there’s a lot of stuff like this about this movie. It it’s almost charming and quaint where they hold themselves back. Like, this is gonna be a little too bloody. Oh, this is gonna be just a little too gross because you just can’t imagine anybody in the horror genre today making those kind of judgments. Right. Right. If anything, it’s like, oh, yeah. That’s gonna be really great. We gotta up the gore here, you know. Right.

Craig: Oh, yeah. I love reading this behind the scenes stuff. And like I said, there’s so much, you know, and and there was there was a whole big documentary about the whole series.

Clip: Oh, yeah.

Craig: Was it called Never Sleep Again?

Todd: Is that what it’s called? Yeah. On the DVDs, and it’s it’s very good.

Craig: It is very good, but it’s long. It’s like 3 or 4 hours long, but they go into great detail, on every single one of, the sequels and there’s some really good stuff there. If you’re a fan of the franchise, I really recommend watching that documentary, because there’s really cool behind the scenes stuff in there. But at this point, it kind of becomes a rescue mission to get, Joey. When they all wake up out of the hypnosis, Joey doesn’t wake up and he’s in a coma. So Nancy and Neil get fired, and they kind of go off on their own. And Neil tells Nancy about how Freddy’s remains need to be buried in consecrated ground. She says, well, there’s only one man who knows where they are. And so they go visit her dad, which is John Saxon reprising his role from the first movie. And at first, he won’t tell them. He he’s just like, you know, I’m done with it. I’ve already lost too much to this. I’m I’m not going back. So he won’t tell Nancy. So Neil tells Nancy, you go back to the hospital because they get a call, that, Kristen has been sedated and put in the quiet room. And so the other kids are freaking out. They know she’s in trouble. So Neil says, Nancy, you go back and deal with that, and I’ll deal with your dad. And at that point, their story lines kind of diverge. Neil takes Nancy’s dad to the first, he goes to a church where he gets some holy water and a Craig. And

Todd: Yeah. This whole bit, I’ve it’s just hilarious. Again, another part where the movie gets just a little silly. I think the whole sequence with her dad in the bar is, once again, it’s so cliche, and it’s so overdramatic. Just almost every bit of it. Even even John Saxon’s acting in this is kind of, yeah, you know, it is, again, it is what it is, but it’s really really goofy. Then he goes to that church and he gets the holy water and it’s kinda clever, like, John Saxons is drunk at this point and he dump he takes his his bottle out of his hand and dumps it out. And then when he goes into the church, that’s what he uses to fill up with the holy water. But then there’s this there’s this quick little scene where he goes and he takes a crucifix off of, like, the wall in the church, and this priest stops him and says well, he doesn’t really stop him because he’s on the other side of this this, you know, dividing great thing.

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: And he says, what

Clip: are you

Todd: doing? And he says, oh, well, I I really need it. I’ll pay for it. And he breaks out his wallet and then end scene. And it’s like Yeah. What in the world was the point of that little bit? Like No idea. Except I think that the I I saw in the end credits that, the guy who played the priest is related to Bob Shea in some way. His last name is Shea. So he had it was like, did they really wanna squeeze a little cameo in here for this guy to have this dumb little pointless scene. And then, of course, you know, they go out to the junkyard. And so what is the implication here? Is Nancy’s dead? He was a sheriff or a police officer in the first movie. Right? Yes. And he still has his little sheriff’s badge. Right?

Craig: Yeah. He’s still in uniform.

Todd: But his uniform on his patches on the shoulder say security.

Craig: Oh, I don’t know. So maybe he’s been demoted or something.

Todd: But he’s still wearing a sheriff’s badge? I don’t know because because then they drive up to this, junkyard, which, you know, he knows because he was part of, I guess, was he part of the parents who are Freddie? So he knows where they left him, and it turns out it’s it’s in the trunk of a car in this junkyard. But they pull up to the junkyard, he gets out of his car and he goes up and he unlocks the gate to the junkyard. And I and I was like, does this guy just have keys to everything? Or is he security at the junkyard now? I couldn’t quite get that.

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. I didn’t even notice the whole security thing. I just assumed that he was in the same position he was before, but it would make more sense that he wasn’t. I mean, he’s clearly, you know, a drunk now and not dealing well with the events of the previous movies. So, I’m not sure. There are a few inconsistencies, you know. Okay. So they’re there in the graveyard and they find the remains or whatever and, Neil starts digging a hole. Meanwhile, back at Weston Hills, the remaining ones all hypnotize themselves again and go back and find Nance or excuse me, find Kristen in the quiet room, which is a padded room. And Nancy keeps saying it’s so important we stay together. It’s so important we stay together. But as soon as they’re in there, Freddy starts, like, well, like, from the outside. Like, he doesn’t appear, but, like, from the outside, you see his blades shredding the walls. And so they’re all encased in these swirling feathers and they get split up. This is the part that we were talking about earlier where it gets a little bit disappointing because Taryn faces Freddie first. And she faces him I mean, she looks it’s so eighties and ridiculous, but

Todd: I’m But

Craig: it’s awesome. Yeah. She’s got this huge mohawk and, like, the fingerless gloves and the leather jacket, and that’s how we envisioned badasses in the eighties, I guess. Yeah.

Todd: Now we just laugh at that.

Craig: Right. And she’s in this back alley and she faces off with Freddie and they barely get a chance to even fight at all before he says, let’s not fight. We used to be friends and he lifts up his hands and both of them, his fingers are syringes and he takes the syringes and he injects them into her arms and you know, there are cool practical effects with her veins bulging out and her face getting, you know, distorted. And I read that her head was supposed to explode but they just couldn’t get it to look right. So she just dies And, like, literally, the whole scene is maybe 2 minutes, maybe 2 minutes. And it’s unfortunate. I would have liked to have seen her to have the opportunity to kick his ass for a little while. I mean, I figured she was gonna die, but it would have been nice to see her get to have a little bit of fun. Yeah. But she doesn’t. And then almost immediately, then it cuts to Will. Freddie first threatens him with this big scary wheelchair. And like he’s in this big hallway in the wheelchair that has like, you know, spinning spiky wheels and blades and things that starts approaching him And he kind of dodges it the first time, but his legs get cut so he’s on the ground, and Freddie taunts him. But then he’s like, no. I am the dream wizard. And he stands up and he shoots, like, lightning out of his hands and, like, it stuns Freddy for a second. But then Will just, like, starts running at him like, I’m the dream wizard. And Freddy just grabs him and lifts him up in the air and kills him. And that’s it. Like, again, like, 2 minutes max. Yeah. And it just didn’t it it felt it was a it was a letdown, you know, especially since we’re building up into the last 20, 30 minutes of the movie. Give me some showdown.

Todd: And maybe, you know, they were just trying to up the kills. Maybe they were, again, like I said earlier, trying to show how useless, these powers can be against the guy who ultimately has control of the dreams, and so you’re supposed to just feel that much more intense going to the last bit of it, but I feel like you do. And it’s funny because I remember these kills very vividly. They were pretty iconic, especially the Terrence, you know, situation with the needles and the drugs and whatnot. But at the end of the day, in the context of the movie, it’s it’s pretty sad.

Craig: Yeah. No. I was with you

Todd: on that, and that was a bit of a shocker for me too. The others end up kind of finding one each one another. I think they more or less assemble back in the house, and a, a giant door appears in front of them just floating and suspended in the air. Uh-huh. Nancy’s line is, look, a door. And I was like, wow. Sometimes the writing in this movie isn’t the best, but, in any case yeah. They go through the door, and where they end up in is a huge spiral staircase that goes down to the pits of hell. The boiler room. Yeah. The boiler room, basically, which is where a lot of, you know, this movie and these movies end up. And, sure enough, Joey, who I’d almost forgotten about by this point, isn’t dead yet. He’s still suspended by these tongues over a flaming fire pit down in the bottom there. And, they barge in. And as Freddie slowly starts to release the tongues from Joey, they’re able to get to him in time to I think as Nancy somebody grabs him. Yeah. And then the others and this is the closest thing we really get to a bit of a battle, between them with them using their powers. Right? Because you get the strength of, Kinkade who is able to help ultimately pull Joey up. You have the acrobatics of

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: Kristen who, is able Todd, occupy Freddie for a little while.

Craig: Yeah. Even that is cut short because meanwhile in the graveyard, Neil is burying the remains. And it appears that somehow Freddie is alerted to this fact and so he disappears out of the fight. Yeah. Yeah. And and then, again, totally messing with the rules. Somehow Freddy reembodies his skeleton

Clip: and

Craig: the skeleton fights well, first of all, it kills John Saxon’s character, and then it fights Neil and throws him into the pit, which, again, you know, what? Like, how is Freddie doing this? But okay. And it, you know, it gives you a fun little kind of evil dead stop motion skeleton moment.

Todd: I was thinking Jason and the Argonauts myself.

Craig: Yeah. Well, very similar. But, you know, I was reading about goofs and continuity and stuff. The Freddy’s skeleton is wearing his glove, which doesn’t make any sense because they took the glove. Remember the the mom had it in their furnace in the first movie and it showed up in the second movie too.

Todd: I didn’t even notice he was wearing glove because he’s not slashing at him, is he? He’s got, like, a big pipe or something he’s fighting him. Yeah. Or no. He’s fighting him with the the the shovel maybe.

Craig: Once Freddie has Neil taken care of, he then returns and he starts taunting them again and the kids end up well, the kids and Nancy end up in this hall of mirrors. And I don’t mean like a fun house hall of mirrors, just like a long hall with lots of like frame mirrors. Right. So Freddie appears in all these mirrors and starts pulling them in and I thought that it just looked pretty good but I read that they had so much trouble with this because it was pre CGI. So really what they were doing was just working with reflective mylar and knowing that it looks pretty damn good.

Todd: Especially impressive. Yeah. It really is.

Craig: But Joey finds his dream strength which is that he can talk and so he screams and the mirrors all, shatter. And then that’s what leads up. I well, then this is a part of the movie. This is probably the part of the movie that bothers me the most. Joey screams. They all embrace, and Nancy says, it’s over. He’s gone. Like, really? Do you really think it’s gonna be that easy? So then her dad shows up in, like, this angelic light and he’s like, I’ve crossed over, but I couldn’t leave without saying goodbye to you. And so she goes and she embraces him, but it’s not him. It’s Freddie who then knives her in the abdomen. And then Freddy goes after Kristen, but Nancy jumps up from behind him, grabs his glove and impales him. Meanwhile, in the graveyard, Neil, it has woken up, has thrown Freddy’s remains in the grave and throws the holy water on them which apparently has the effect that it’s supposed to because Freddy starts to kind of dissipate and disintegrate into this light and he disappears. And he’s gone. Kristen grabs Nancy and is holding her and is crying.

Clip: I won’t let you die. I won’t let you. I’m in a dream. You went Todd a beautiful dream forever and ever.

Craig: Then they wake up and everything’s fine and the last scene that we get is Neil sleeping and apparently he has Kristen’s model of the house and the light turns on. Now, my indication was that that meant that Freddie was still around.

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: What I read was that this was supposed to be the last movie. I feel like they said that with pretty much every movie after the first one. But this was supposed to be the last one and they deleted a scene where somebody was talking to Kristen after the final events and they asked her, do you ever dream about Nancy? And she said, I see her every night. And the implication was that Nancy was now like her dream guardian. And so when you saw Neil and you saw the light go on in the house, it wasn’t supposed to be implied that that was Freddie that was still around, but rather that it was Nancy and that now that she was the guardian of the dream warriors.

Todd: Right. Because the light shines on that little statue of the Thai dream guardian or whatever that that they’ve got on there. Like, I can kinda see that symbolism now that you mentioned it, but you’re right. My interpretation, probably everybody else isn’t seeing this movie without that scene, is that, Freddie’s not gone. Right. So, yeah, it’s a little silly. It the the ending gets a little silly. I know they’re going for big and they’re going for complicated in here, but this notion, like you said, that Freddie can reassemble his skeleton, and do this battle at the beginning of the world, and then end it by tossing 2 scoopfuls of dirt on this guy and thinking he’s finished the job, and then dropping apart and coming back in to finish off the rest of the kids. He was just setting himself up for disappointment later, you know? Yeah.

Craig: I mean, all it takes in the next movie is for a dog to pee fire on his grave when he comes back. Yeah. True. Part 4 does pick up exactly where part 3 left off. They recast, Patricia Arquette. There are various stories. Some people say that she turned it down because apparently, she did not have a good time making this movie. The budgetary and time constraints made it really stressful work environment, and it was it was her first movie. It was particularly hard on her. Her first day of shooting, they were running so late that she didn’t even start filming until 4 in the morning. And by that time, she had forgotten her lines. And so they ended up having to do, like, 40 some takes before they eventually just made up cue cards and let her read them from behind the camera.

Clip: Well

Craig: and so she didn’t have a good time. So by some accounts, she was offered it and decided not to come back. By other accounts, she had already been offered other things and her career was taking off, so she didn’t come back. By other accounts, they didn’t even bother to offer it to her because her career was taking off and they didn’t think they could get her back. But one way or another, she didn’t come back. Tuesday night took over her role, and Tuesday night ended up getting killed in the first 15 minutes of the of, the movie. But Joey returned, Kinkade returned, and then it took a new course with new characters including Alice who was the heroine of the next two movies.

Todd: Mhmm.

Craig: I’m still a fan of the movie. Again, it’s not aging particularly well, but I just think that there’s so much good stuff going on in it that I can still appreciate it for what it is and and for how I remember it. And I I I still think it’s a good time.

Todd: It’s a real spectacle, you know. And that and that is it’s not disappointing in that way. And like you said before, some of the most iconic kills of the of the franchise and because they’re creative. And that that’s why I really enjoyed the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise even more so than, like, Friday 13th and these others because that well, they have the ability at least to be creative, super creative with the kills because we’re talking about the dream world. And so, they take full advantage of that at every turn and that’s what’s really fun. I think about watching the series even though they get silly, even though the Freddy character, you know, kinda changes and even at the times when it seems to play fast and loose with the rules, you can still watch it for these creative kills and the cool special effects to go into it. And that’s that’s really, I think, the core maybe one of the core, besides the Freddy character himself, draws of the whole franchise. It’s this movie, like you said, that really cements things. It kind of resets the base for them to launch, the rest of the franchise in, and, and it make a little bit more sense after number 2 kinda knocks it off the rails a little bit. Mhmm. So that’s the good part of the movie. And then there’s some silly things about this movie that’s just chalk it up to low budget, chalk it up to bad acting, chalk it up to not the best writing in the world. Mhmm. And also the fact that I think that this is This was intended at least to be the last film in the in the franchise. It makes some of the choices have a little more sense. Like, that Nancy is killed, that her father is killed, and also, this nun thing showing up. It’s like they had to shoehorn in an ex like, a final explanation of Freddie. Yeah. But ultimately having this this nun mysteriously appearing in this movie as kind of a ghost or whatever isn’t doesn’t really fit. It feels a little out of place unless it were, again, the last in the series in which that would make a lot more sense and wouldn’t seem so weird. So I I enjoyed it. I, like I said, a little disappointed because I remembered it a little bit better than, it ended up being, but

Craig: Me too.

Todd: At the end of the day, compared to the rest of them, one of the better in the franchise for sure. They’re not all fantastic movies. We can’t pretend No. It’s Citizen Kane. You know?

Craig: No. I I I still thought 4 was fun. 4 was directed by Renny Harlin and I, really enjoyed that one. 5, I don’t know. It was kinda pushing it for me. 6, I hated it. 6 just went full on goofball. Yeah. And I hated it. But then they came back with New Nightmare, which I freaking loved

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: And still do. And even Freddy versus Jason, we really like that one.

Craig: Yeah. It was fun. It was fun. Yeah. I doubt that we’ll ever get to see, Robert England as Freddie again. Now I say that, but he did just reprise the role on American sitcom, The Goldbergs this Halloween. Oh, really? They’re saying that he would absolutely never do it again. Yeah. Because he he hates the makeup process and I think he’s 70 or nearing 70. Oh my gosh. He said, he would never do it again. He hates the makeup process, but he just this Halloween reprised the role in full makeup. Now granted he was only in the show for less than 5 minutes, but he it was him. And since, you know, in talking about that and doing publicity for that, he’s kind of said, well, never say never. So you never know, but the guy is getting old.

Todd: Maybe we’re gonna see some Indiana Jones, the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull kind of reboot where Freddy is an old aging guy who’s gotta pass the torch to some other child murderer who visits kids in their dreams.

Craig: Yeah. Maybe. I mean, I tell you what, if if they got him back in the makeup for one more sequel, I would be there opening weekend Oh, for sure.

Clip: To bet

Craig: your ass. I I I couldn’t keep myself away. But anyway, we’re left with a legacy. I’m left with my box set of the entire series that I treasure and, they’re fun to go back to. And I’m glad that we returned to, this series for our 150th. Maybe, if we get around to 300, we’ll, check out part 4 or something.

Todd: Maybe. You never know.

Craig: But but we but not the abomination that is the remake. I just refuse. I can’t I can’t watch that again.

Todd: I never even saw it myself. I Don’t. It’s terrible. Well, thank you all for sticking with us for a 100 and 50 episodes, especially those of you who’ve been with us from the very beginning.

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: If you haven’t been with us from the very beginning, you can catch all 100 49. They’re up. They’re up on our website, 2 guys dot redfortynet.com. They’re also up on Itunes and Google Play, wherever podcasts are. You’re we’re not going anywhere. We’re gonna be on for the foreseeable future. We’ve got a lot more planned, and we’re coming up into Christmas season now. So we gotta we gotta somehow figure out 4 more holiday themed movies to do it. And, I’m sorry to say it’s gonna start to get pretty trashy. I’ve got some ideas. We’ll be alright. Okay. Good. I can’t wait to hear them. Until next time. I’m Todd and I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Happy Thanksgiving, Americans! We’re happy to treat to you this long-lost slasher film with all the trimmings: cheesy 80’s music, hilarious over-the-top gore effects, laughable acting, and ridiculous writing. Whip it out to wake up your relatives during the post-turkey food coma phase of your celebration. Just remember, everyone: That isn’t cranberry sauce!

Episode 149, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Craig:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig. 

Clip:  I’m Todd. I’m Todd. I’m   Todd. I’m Todd. 

Todd:  I’m Todd. I’m Todd. 

Craig:  Gosh. Yeah. 

Todd:  I love hearing my name in a movie. I don’t hear it often enough. Unfortunately, whenever I do hear my name in a movie, it always ends up being this dorky, lame ass way. 

Craig:  No. No. Todd is awesome in this movie. 

Todd:  Dude, I don’t Bruce Willis never gets cast as a guy named Todd. Know what I’m saying? It’s always people like this. 

Craig:  I know. I know. That’s why like watching, Friday. Craig, you know I love your mom. Oh, man. Alright. Well, it’s Thanksgiving time. 

Todd:  Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. 

Craig:  It’s time to watch a movie about Thanksgiving. 

Todd:  We we managed to find 1. 

Craig:  We did. You know, it’s it’s tricky. We’re big dorks, and we love doing these themed episodes, but you just don’t find a whole lot of good Thanksgiving horror movies. No. You don’t. And and and we didn’t this week either. No. 

Todd:  Is no exception. 

Craig:  But we did find a Thanksgiving movie. We sure did. We found, 1980 seven’s Blood Rage, directed by John Grissmer, written by Bruce Rubin. 

Todd:  Pretty much the only thing these guys have written or directed. 

Craig:  Oh, I know. Each of them has, like, 1 or 2 other credits. Yeah. So this is the Okay. Alright. So the movie opens up in 1974 in Jacksonville, Florida at a drive in that is showing the town that cried murder. And, it’s, you know, it’s typical seventies driving stuff. 

Todd:  Well, it is, except for the fact that everybody At this point, is wearing complete 19 eighties garp and gear and hairstyles and everything. But but do That 

Craig:  that is It’s absolutely true. And you youngins out there may have never experienced a drive in. In this small rural community that I live in, we used to have 1, just a half an hour away. And my friends and I in college would drive down there on the weekends, and and it it really was fun. You know? It was fun to just hang out in your car, and, like, there was a concession stand, and we would buy cheap pizza and do things. 

Todd:  You wouldn’t really even watch the movie most of the time? 

Craig:  No. Not really. You just hang out and, whoever wasn’t driving, of course, maybe have a little bit to drink or whatever. It was fun. Yeah. 

Todd:  So this 

Craig:  is, you know, very typical driving stuff. We follow some good looking guy walking around through the concession stand, then he walks into the He walks into the bathroom where I was sure this guy in, like I don’t think it was a trench coat, but it may as well have been, Like, comes up to him and he’s like, hey. Hey. And he opens up his coat, and instead of having, like, drugs or something, he’s just got rows of condoms hanging He downed his coat like he’s selling condoms on the black market list. 

Todd:  So sweet. 

Craig:  Oh god. And and that that that guy, it was Ted Raimi. 

Todd:  I know that. I did. I saw him, and I was like, gosh. This guy Super familiar. Who is this man? Who is he? And, yeah, Ted Raimi, of course. I guess it was his 1st screen appearance too. He was 19. Even though this movie was released later, It was shot in 1983 well, it was finished in 1983, but it wasn’t released until 1987. 

Craig:  Right. Right. And it’s and I I have no idea. I read that too. I have no idea what the delay was, but, yeah, it was years before it actually came out. Gee, I I wonder. 

Todd:  Yeah. Cool. 

Craig:  I don’t know. Oh, I mean, there had to have been demand. Oh, gosh. I don’t know. But, anyway, so, he buys some condoms, And then we just see, you know, there are some girls smoking some weed and the people making out, and we cut to this, car making out, and I’m like, surely these people are not supposed to be teenagers because the woman looked like she was in her forties. I’m like, this is Todd. But it turns out they’re not supposed to be teenagers because she the girl is Maddie, and she is a mother. And she has 2 twin boys who are in the back of the car.   And this guy is trying to, like, you know, put the moves on her, and she’s like, oh, no. But the boys and, he says, well, they’ve been asleep for a half hour. And she’s like, okay. So they start making out, and the 2 boys who turn out to be identical twins wake up. And this movie is just so full of great lines. Like, 

Todd:  I they wake up and they look 

Craig:  up at the fret, and one of the boys is like, mom’s at it again. What? 

Todd:  That’s right. 

Craig:  Oh my god. It killed me. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  So they sneak out to get away from their Make out mama, and, they they’re walking around, and one of them randomly finds, Like, this axe in the back 

Todd:  of the 

Craig:  pickup truck. Yeah. Yeah. And they’re walking around, and they come up to the car with the good looking guy who we saw before who is fully naked, having sex with a girl in the back seat who is also fully naked. Yeah. Now my drive in experiences are very limited, but I would have thought that if you gonna get freaky at the drive in. You might be a little bit more discreet than taking off all of your clothes. 

Todd:  Laying across the back with the windows down. Yeah. 

Craig:  But apparently not. And so what the boy with the hatchet who ends up being Terry. It’s 2 boys, Terry and Todd. Terry, like, watches them going at it for And, eventually, the good looking guy looks up and is like, hey. Get out of here, creep. And so Terry takes his hatchet and, like, totally hatchets the guy’s face. Like, like, several times, like, right in 

Todd:  the face. In the middle of the drive in. 

Craig:  In the middle of the drive in. And The the girl jumps out of the car fully naked and runs off. 

Todd:  This, like, this movie is not shy about nudity one way or another, But it also seems to present a world where nobody else is. 

Craig:  Yeah. Right? Yeah. It’s fine. Nobody and nobody even notices her running, like, through the field, like, Buck naked. But, anyway, so, the mom realizes the boys are gone, so they go looking for them. And we See that Terry Todd apparently is, you know, totally traumatized by what he’s just seen his brother do. So he’s completely in shock, not speaking, not moving. And Terry wipes the blood all over Todd’s face and hands him the hatchet.   And so when everybody comes running, Terry says, Todd did it. Todd did it. Todd Did it. And, apparently, they believe him because then we cut to 10 years later, and Todd is in a mental institution has been for the past 10 years, and now his mother is visiting him. 

Todd:  Yeah. And and, like, this whole first sequence of this movie, I was I was pretty joyful. I thought, okay. This is gonna be a movie I’m gonna get into. Not because it’s a great movie, but because it’s gonna be bad in all of the right ways. And, yeah, after this point, I was getting this distinct intruder vibe. You remember intruder, the one that took place in the supermarket? Yeah. Something about this movie, something At the root of it, really felt like intruder.   I don’t know if it was the quality of the acting, the absurdity of the plot, The horrible one lie you know, the horrible lines and the melodrama of it all, and then the extreme gore, you know, mixed in. And maybe and it was shot around the same time too within a couple years of each other. I was I was searching in IMDB to see if there was any connection But in between this movie and the produce makers of Intruder, and the only one I could find was Ted Raimi. 

Craig:  Ted Raimi. Yeah. 

Todd:  Who was shooting Evil Dead at the time this came out, I think. And then Intruder came out in 89, so it was even a few years afterwards. So I don’t know. In my head, there’s just this, like, click of people around this time who were just All in everybody else’s movies, and everybody was just making horror movies and having a good time. But this was shot, like, in Jacksonville, Florida. And I don’t think that I don’t think that the Rameys were doing their thing and the intruder thing was happening on that side of the US, if I’m not mistaken. 

Craig:  Yeah. You’re you’re probably right, but you’re but you’re definitely It it it feels very much like that movie. And, you know, initially, I guess the working title was Slasher, and that’s very much appropriate because that’s what the movie ends up being. It’s very much a slasher movie. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s one of these movies that changed titles, like, 2 or 3 different times. And, apparently, it it you know? Again, it was released much later. It had a very limited theatrical release. It was called, like, Nightmare at Shadow Woods, which is the name of the apartment complex this all ends up happening in. But, yeah, you you can kinda tell. I think Intruder was the same way, wasn’t it? Didn’t it have another title as well before it was released. Yeah.   I think so. Released years after it was made kinda thing. And and the other aspect of it I wanted to say was, the way that it’s shot. And I think that the scene that you just Todd finish describing is perfectly emblematic of what’s so funny and incompetent about this movie is that it’s so stagey. Mhmm. They set up these scenes in front of a static camera that just that look like they’re set up for the camera, and they’re lit for the camera. All the lighting in this movie is totally flat. You can see, like, shadows on the wall and across People and stuff where the these bright, you know, movie lights are coming at them.   None of it seems none of the lighting in this movie seems motivated whatsoever. It it’s it’s it’s it’s lit like a comedy, like a sitcom or something. And then, you know, there’s very little in the way of of clever camerawork, which was something the intruder had actually quite a bit of clever camera. Yeah. This has none of it. And then the acting and the staginess of it, you know, this this kid smears his Todd this blood on his brother’s face and puts his hatchet in his hand. In the meantime, people are already walking towards them from these other cars. 

Craig:  I mean, 

Todd:  people are seeing this go on. And the mother comes running over, and everyone just stands around and stares, and nobody really does anything. And they’re all just waiting for her to finish her line, and Everybody looks melodramatically at the other kid. You know? Everybody just kinda stands around. It’s it’s and this movie is full of this, which is just laugh out loud funny times. 

Craig:  Yeah. And and, you know, Terry is, like, covered in blood, and meanwhile, he’s wiped a little bit of blood on his brother’s face. 

Clip:  Like, he 

Craig:  did it. Exactly. 

Todd:  Okay. It’s a poorly framed scene of a poor framing. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there I I guess I’m gonna try to be a little bit generous in some ways because I I will if we haven’t gotten there yet, we will. But Some of the gore effects and not even so much in the kills, but the aftermath of the kills. I like, I could tell they were trying. 

Todd:  Like The effects were good. 

Craig:  There was a good effort there, but, oh, man. The the writing, it it really, you know, straddles that line of so bad it’s good. Like like you said, literally, I laughed out loud several times, and I I kept writing down lines because there are so many good ones. Anyway, so the mom visits Todd in the mental institution, and it’s so silly. It it’s just exposition, really. And in fact, I’ve read that in Some cuts of this movie, they cut this scene out entirely. 

Todd:  Yeah. For good reason. 

Craig:  Right. I mean, she shows up, and the The doctor there I don’t know what her name is. Doctor Berman, who I read was they cast somebody as doctor Berman, but then the lady who they just didn’t show up, so the producer just stepped in and played her. 

Todd:  And it shows. 

Craig:  Yeah. Oh my well Well it’s like she’s, you know, subpar in comparison to everybody else. 

Todd:  Well, that’s a good point. And they handle it all in voice over. It ends up being super melodramatic. 

Clip:  Doctor Berman’s patient consultation notes, November 22, 1984. Saw Maddie Simmons, Todd’s mother, for the first time today. I don’t think she was quite prepared for What I told her, that after 10 years, Todd was starting to remember what had happened in the drive in that night. Facing the fact The Todd’s memory of the incident cast suspicion on his twin brother, Terry, was not that easy for her.   On Terry? What? Are you crazy?   Her position on another issue was also somewhat negative. No.   No. No more tests. No more tests. My children are not skinny pigs.   My past work with hysterical patients helped me calm her down. 

Todd:  And it’s Thanksgiving. We’ve been told it’s Thanksgiving. So mom is bringing him a piece of pie or something, a 

Craig:  cake Yeah. 

Todd:  Which later on, she says she used She does every year except except it we’re hearing at this scene that she’s hasn’t been there, and she hasn’t seen him, like, since She put him in the institution or something. 

Craig:  Exactly. So 

Todd:  it doesn’t make sense, but it’s so funny because he comes in and he’s staring at her. And the voice over says he’s catatonic, but he starts talking to her. And then they start talking to each other, and they have this argument. And he opens up the cake, And he picks it up, and he just starts smashing in his hand and With his hands. I mean, you know that this probably looked great on paper, but it looked it is so poorly executed on It’s green. But by the end of this scene, he’s on his knees in front of her leg. 

Clip:  I considered the setback relatively minor because Todd remained focused On establishing his innocence and getting on with a normal life.   Get me out of here. I never killed anybody.   I must now begin the long preparing him to the dangers of the world in which he has been sheltered. 

Todd:  Oh my gosh. It’s so melodramatic and hilarious. 

Craig:  It it is. And but what the what the doctor explains to us is that he’s been basically catatonic since the events of that fateful night. But now Now that she’s working in with him, she’s had a breakthrough, and he’s talking and he’s remembering what happened. And according According to him, he now remembers that he didn’t kill anybody. It was actually Terry. But the mom doesn’t wanna hear that, and and so she leaves. And then we get to see what’s going on in Terry’s world. And Todd and Terry, by the way, are played by the same guy, Mark Soper.   I kept waiting. I’m like, when are we gonna get them both on screen at the same time? 

Todd:  How are they gonna handle 

Craig:  Right. And it doesn’t happen until the very end, and then it’s some really funny bad wig work, like, Where 

Todd:  the wigs don’t even look like No. Hair. They’re, like, one of them is, like, gray. It’s so bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig:  And it you know, it when they when they shot it, obviously, like, they had to shoot it so 1 person had their back completely to the camera so that you could just see the other guy over their shoulder, and then they would switch perspectives and wigs. 

Todd:  It’s late. 

Craig:  But, anyway, whereas Todd is kind of pale and disheveled, Terry is, you know, an all American guy with this great wavy hair. And, of course, they’re all wearing their eighties garb with, you know, like, the super shorty shorts. And he’s this athletic guy, and he’s at this group of friends and, you know, everything’s very idyllic, and they’re playing football, blah blah blah. And, it’s Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving. Well, which makes sense because, you know, you play football outside on Thanksgiving, I guess. And it’s also clunky. Like, they they introduce characters in such a clunky way. Like, we meet these apparently new neighbors in the complex just happened to come running by, and they’re like, oh, hi.   We’re your new neighbors. And one of them is Andrea who immediately starts Flirting with Terry. Even though Terry already has a girlfriend Right there. She’s right there, and he’s flirting back with Andrea Todd. And his girlfriend’s just standing there looking at him like, 

Todd:  And they’re all playing they’re all playing touch football, which is also quite cute. Like, this a very unlikely group people to be playing football. 

Craig:  We get Thanksgiving dinner where we find out that mom is going to be marrying her fiance, Brad, who also happens to be the manager of the Apartment complex that they work in. Yeah. But what’s what was so funny to me in this part was Music in the background Yes. Was so dramatic. Like 

Clip:  Congratulations. I’m happy for you both. 

Todd:  I I really am. 

Craig:  Thanks. 

Clip:  I guess the toast is in order.   Here’s to the new family. 

Craig:  Nice. Like, you just expected at any second for somebody to just pick a knife and stab somebody in the face. 

Todd:  That’s true. The movie tells us, you know, what’s going on by extremely dramatic musical cues and close ups on overacting faces. Terry’s just mugging for the camera in this. 

Craig:  Yeah. But, I mean, in this scene where it’s just this dinner and they’re playing this super dramatic something scary is gonna happen music, nothing Scary happens. Like, it’s 

Clip:  just No. 

Craig:  I guess we’re just supposed to be like, oh, there’s Terry. We know he’s bad. Something could happen, 

Todd:  But nothing will. No. Terry’s not happy about mom marrying this guy, apparently, though. And we’re really not I’m really not sure why Terry’s unhappy with anything and any of his friends that he subsequently goes on a murderous rampage against, except for the fact that, I guess, Terry’s just crazy, And this whole incident makes him snap or whatever. 

Craig:  I guess. It’s kind 

Todd:  of unclear how a guy would get through 10 years of life after this successfully framing his brother, Lead this absolutely normal life and get all this great group of friends, and then 1 night decide that, he doesn’t want them anymore and be better off if they’re just dead. He takes care of 

Craig:  Yeah. Because that’s kinda what happens. The mom gets a phone call that says that Todd has escaped. Now And and so she tells Terry, and she’s like, okay. But don’t tell anybody because I don’t wanna ruin Thanksgiving. So then they go back and sit Todd, and Terry’s like, oh, I guess you’re gonna get to meet the rest of the family because my lunatic brother just escaped the mental institution. Dun dun dun. 

Todd:  And then an an extremely long, like, 2 minute shot of her just staring at him. It was and it was so uncomfortably long that you’re thinking this is one of those cases where the director just forgot to yell cut, and they just decided to use the whole take. Because at one point toward the end of it, it’s like they don’t even really know what to do anymore. And the mother in this, Maddie, is actually, Louise Lasser, who is a very, accomplished actress even by this point. Yes. She was in a lot of Woody Allen’s earlier films. She’s actually mostly in comedy, I did a ton of TV work and stuff like that. And, it’s a it’s it’s it’s crazy.   You know? This is a case of where I would like to say she was the best actress in the movie, except the material that she was given was so ridiculous that there was no way she could make it good. And so her performance ends up coming across as super ridiculous. 

Craig:  It does. I mean, she was in Requiem for a Dream. Like, she has done some really, really good stuff. But in the movie, she just kind of comes off as a lunatic too. Like Yeah. She she’s so neurotic, and And it’s weird. Like, I couldn’t tell. And especially by the end, her attachment to Terry is a little 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Much. Like, what? Oh, Terry. 

Clip:  I love you so much.   Oh, that’s really nice. 

Todd:  Like, it 

Craig:  it’s and and she knows. Like, the doctor told her that Todd said Terry did it, and and she just totally rejects that. Like, she just totally I I guess since Terry was the one that she ended up Raising because the other one is in the middle institution. Like, she just clings to him and just refuses to even consider that he could be bad even though he’s clearly in that job too. 

Todd:  I guess. Yeah. I mean, they they just play her for the neurotic, Unhinged mother all the way through this movie. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. I guess, basically, what the point is at this point is now Now that Terry knows that Todd is there and the doctor told the mom he’ll probably come to you. He’ll probably come home. Terry, Harry, I guess, in his mind decides, well, since Todd’s coming home, I have to kill everybody to make it look like he did it. 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. That was the problem with the that’s kind of the problem with the motivation and and really, you know, a big problem with the whole script is that it’s just I think the only way we’re supposed to understand it is just that Terry is is what you just described. I can’t think of any other way to interpret it, which is so dumb. You know, are are we supposed to believe that he was looking for an opportunity to off all of his friends and this is it? As the movie went on and more and more people got picked off, I was just getting more and more confused because I was earlier on looking for motivation. I thought, okay. Well, her the mother’s husband’s gonna get it because she he’s so attached his mother, and he clearly doesn’t like that she’s getting remarried. But then as he starts going after all of his other friends, who are all seem very quite very friendly and happy go lucky and and fine with him.   I realized, yeah, I guess there’s really no no real motivation. Nothing Besides plot driven, we’ve gotta kill a whole bunch of people in this movie. 

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, it’s just kinda weird. I mean, we after we find out that Todd’s escaped. We see him wandering the streets, and then the doctor shows up at their house, but, like, She shows up with this guy. Like, there’s a knock at the door, and then we see who’s on the other side of the door. And it’s a guy with a gun, like, Hiding, like, around. Like, he knocks on the door, and then he does the whole cop thing where he, like, you know, stands off to the side of it with the gun. And then so Terry Perry opens the door, and the guy points the gun at him and 

Todd:  Point blank range. 

Craig:  Yeah. I don’t even know what the point was, but then the doctor steps up and she’s Like, no. No. That’s Terry. That’s his brother. And the guy’s like, oh, they look so much alike. And the doctor’s like, don’t worry. It’s just a tranquilizer gun.   And then the mom shows up, and she’s like, doctor Berman or whatever. And then she She she, like, screams, what’s that gun? The delivery was so funny. I almost peed my pants. 

Clip:  Doctor Berg, did you find them?   No. I haven’t even looked yet. What’s that gun?   It’s okay, mom. 

Craig:  Oh. Oh, man. And there’s so much of that throughout, like, just the ridiculous lines and ridiculous delivery. It’s so funny. But it turns out that the guy with the gun is with her, and they’re there to look for Todd. And and and then Terry starts killing people. But this also So confused me because since the boys are both dressed or or no. They’re not dressed the same.   They’re dressed differently, but they pretty much you know, they’re played by the same guys. They look the same. At first, I thought Todd showed up and started killing people. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And I had that in my notes for, like, for 2 or 3 lines. I’m like, okay. Todd shows up behind Brad in his office and and cuts Off 

Todd:  his hand with a machete, 

Craig:  but it’s not. It’s Terry. And then people are out looking for Todd, and Jackie was the guy with the gun who came with the doctor, and he he sings. 

Todd:  This is where I started to roll my eyes because I just keep thinking of that George Carlin, routine about guys named Todd. And I don’t mean to make this personal, but it’s so silly. They’re walking around the woods going, Todd? 

Clip:  Todd? Are you there, 

Todd:  Todd? Todd? 

Clip:  Todd? Todd, I don’t like this, Todd. You better come back. Todd. Todd, it’s doctor Burman, Todd. Please come out, Todd. I’m here to help you. 

Todd:  Oh my god. And then then this other guy, Jackie’s doing it too. Todd. Todd. Hey, Todd. We could smoke some weed, Todd. I got some weed here, Todd. And then he just decides to sit down in the backyard of some random guy and light up a a joint. 

Craig:  Yeah. But not before he sings the theme song to Flashdance, except he changes the Todd. 

Todd:  Which which would you think about is also a bit of an unnecessary Todd change too? 

Craig:  No. They they they were probably trying not to pay rights would be my guess. I don’t 

Todd:  know. I guess. Yeah. 

Craig:  But but then Terry kills him. He he’s got this machete. He just keeps killing people with it. 

Todd:  Just These stabs them straighten the guts. And like you said, the gore effects are fun. I I would say they’re fun. They’re not real Because there’s way too much blood squirting everywhere, but they’re fun. They’re they’re actually pretty typical of this kind of low budget Eighties horror. Although, they linger on it quite a bit. And I guess I guess we’ve watched the uncut version. And I guess when this was released, a lot of The gore was cut out.   I I heard I read that it was actually showed on cable a little bit, but obviously, so much of this would have been cut even for cable. Then I I kinda like that part of it or these these ridiculous gore effects. And, also, I really like that premise in a movie like this where if you cut off someone’s limbs, they keep Twitching? Mhmm. Yeah. Like, the the this guy’s was holding a beer in his hand when Todd came up from behind him, Brad, and and sliced his hand off. And Brad just stands there holding a stump of his arm, just looking at it, screaming. You know, it lingers on there for, like, 10 seconds. And then we see a close-up of the hand of, clutching the beer on the floor, and it’s just like squeezing it, squeezing it, squeezing it.   And, later on when, after he after he stabs Jackie, The next person to go is the doctor who, again, is is inexplicably going extremely slowly walking through the woods, calling his name. And he comes up to her, and he ends up we don’t see it happen. We see the aftermath later where she’s vivisected. He’s cut her straight across the, stomach. And she, again, is like, her legs are about 5 feet in one side, and, she is laying there. And, She’s still screaming and flopping around. 

Craig:  Right. And it’s And her legs 

Todd:  are still twitching. 

Craig:  It’s and it’s totally obvious that, you know, like, she’s laying and and her legs are down underneath the stage 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Somehow, somewhere. But, But, again, like, this 

Todd:  thing fun. 

Craig:  It is. And and they clearly made an effort with these practical effects, and they’re bloody and they’re gory. They don’t look real. I mean, it looks like effects, but it was fun. And when he slices is her in half with the machete. Then we get what has to be the best line of the whole movie. And not only is it the best Fine. But it then gets repeated 2 or 3 times.   Yeah. And you know exactly what I’m talking about. Right? 

Todd:  I do. I do. I have some it’s 

Clip:  not cranberry sauce. 

Todd:  The blood the blood. He looks at the blood on 

Craig:  the machete. It’s not cranberry sauce. Oh, I had to pause. I had to pause so I could write it down. That was so great. 

Todd:  And, yeah, we do. We keep hearing it over and over again, but I like that because it continues to anchor this film to Thanksgiving. Yeah. I’d like that they put that effort in because we we need to be justified in doing this as a Thanksgiving movie. It has to be more than just the dinner. It has to be more than that pumpkin pie she delivered to him at the beginning, and I really appreciated the references to cranberry sauce All the way up to almost the end. It it was great. 

Craig:  Yeah. It’s it’s hilarious. I mean, I think that they had to know that it was funny. I mean, it’s hilarious. 

Todd:  Well, the other reference to Thanksgiving here too is that, I think it’s almost the next scene after this is the what what’s happening here is while everything else is going on, and there’s a bunch of ridiculousness, oh, we’re going to this party. Oh, we’re gonna play some video games. You know, we’re bouncing back and forth between all these couples and people. Mom’s through line of this whole thing is that she can’t get a Todd of Brad. Mhmm. Because he was the 1st to be killed, and he said, I’m gonna be in my office and just call me if you need me. And the 1st time she tries calling him, he doesn’t answer the phone. So she is gradually and slowly more and more flipping out that she can’t get ahold of him.   And so the next scene is of her sitting on the floor in the kitchen with The door of the fridge open, staring into the fridge while she has 2 big pots of Thanksgiving leftovers that she’s eating with her hands. 

Craig:  Right. With right. Her legs spread full apart with these yes. Oh, so funny. And hilarious. You know, Unless I was missing something, I felt like there were aspects of the movie that were really pretty inept. And when I say the movie, I mean the shooting. Because After Terry kills Brad and the doctor, then he goes home and he’s, like, looking in the mirror and he’s got blood all over himself, and then he takes a shower with his pants on.   Like Yes. And and, like, you can just barely see that he’s wearing pants, which makes me think that they thought that that wouldn’t be in the shot. Mhmm. And there are other places like that. Like, there’s a scene on a tennis court at one point. The camera pulls back kind of for a long shot, And you for just a split second before it cuts back to a closer shot, you can see somebody kind of enter the frame, and I think that it was a cameraman. If it 

Todd:  was a if it was a A 

Craig:  character, I totally missed it. And there are a couple of other places. I don’t remember there was another place where 

Todd:  There’s a place in the woods when, just before someone’s about to get Killed. 

Craig:  Yeah. You can see people walking around in the background. 

Todd:  Yeah. It’s true. It’s like they didn’t notice this or they had no better takes to use. I guess. 

Craig:  But him funny. Him taking a shower with his pants on gave me a chuckle. Oh, man. 

Todd:  There’s no suspense in this movie. There’s just none. And a part of it comes from the fact that we know who the Killer is. And and like you said, we thought early on that because this is a twin movie that there would be some duality, some kind of, oh, is it him? Is it her? It it would there be some twist at the end? No. There is no twist. I mean, we are just watching Terry going around killing these people. And then when you find out it’s Kind of unmotivated. Like, there’s no real rhyme or reason why he’s killing any of these people that that you can discern.   You’re just waiting for the next one to happen. And then when it does, it’s not like there’s a lot Stalking going on. It’s not like there’s even much of that creeping around. I heard a noise. What is it? And then there’s a jump scare. It’s just generally somebody’s doing something, and then Terry’s there, and he he kills them. It’s disappointing for a horror movie, but it’s hilarious. 

Craig:  It is pretty funny. 

Todd:  And there are times also when I wondered if they were playing it for comedy. 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. Sure. There are 

Todd:  at least a few moments in this, and I’m sure we’ll get to them where A line is set, and it’s just so funny that you wonder if they aren’t poking a little bit of fun at themselves. I don’t know. What do you think? 

Craig:  I can’t tell because some of it, Like, it’s not cranberry sauce. I mean and and if he had just said it once, like, that would be one thing, but he says Like, 2 or 3 times throughout the course of the movie. So they had to know that was funny. 

Todd:  It’s like a running gag. Yeah. 

Craig:  Right. But you can’t tell sometimes times if it’s trying to be funny or if it’s just really bad writing. Because, like so Terry goes, to where Audrey, who he met earlier is babysitting, and, like, she comes on to him, but he just wants to watch TV or whatever. Like, I feel like there’s supposed to be this subtext of Terry think sex is bad, and that’s why he kills people, but it’s it’s downplayed. 

Todd:  I don’t even know why he went over there. 

Craig:  I don’t well, She’d invited him earlier at at dinner or whatever. 

Todd:  Oh, that’s right. That’s right. 

Craig:  But but then okay. So he is over at her house, and then his Girlfriend Karen shows up at his house, at Terry’s house, where she runs into Todd, but she thinks that Todd is Terry. And She’s like, oh, you must be high. You’re always so quiet when you’re high. 

Todd:  Boy. And then she goes with this Really long monologue that I guess is supposed to explain their relationship to us, the audience. 

Clip:  You know, we’ve both been away at school, and I don’t know. We haven’t Talked to each other. You haven’t written me any letters, and I’ve hardly even seen you since you’ve gotten back. And I don’t know, Terry. I just love you a lot and, well, I want you to make love to me. You’re shocked, Well, Terry, come on. I wish you’d say something. I’m not Terry.   I’m Todd. Terry’s brother? Oh, my God. I mean, So you’re home for the holidays, You seem nice. I’ve never kissed a girl before. Oh, yeah. Well, you really ought to try it sometime. I gotta go. Bye. 

Craig:  Oh, god. Oh, man. So funny. 

Todd:  It’s brilliant. Brilliant stuff. 

Craig:  And then she she randomly runs Todd, like, I guess, their friends. I I don’t know if we were supposed to remember them from earlier, but there’s a couple of guys. There’s Greg and Artie. And 

Todd:  They pull up in a car. It it it’s And she says, oh, I just met the creepy Todd guy. And so, Greg says, oh, I’m gonna go check him out. And he pulls a bat, and he runs over there, but he doesn’t find him. And I don’t know. Then we just get all this weird kind of supposed to be teenage drama where they’re gonna go to a party, but first, they’re gonna go over to somebody’s house, Craig play video games, and then they’re talking. And in the meantime, mom is drinking wine and vacuuming. 

Craig:  Yeah. And cleaning the kitchen. And, like, it just keeps cutting back to her and and and, like, some type there’s a whole hue like, I feel like it’s split up over a couple of scenes where she’s pleading with the operator to connect her to Brad. Like like Yeah. No. No. There must be some mistake. I know he’s there. 

Clip:  He’s waiting for my call. Please. Please. Please. Like, 

Todd:  he’s freaking out. So long. Oh, god. It’s embarrassing. It goes on for so long. It’s 

Craig:  It is. Embarrassing. And Todd, at some point, finds the doctor’s body cut in half like he tries 

Todd:  to put it back together. Tries to put it together. I know. That’s so funny. And then as he’s walking away from the body, just this random girl walking through the woods like, muffles. Muffles. She’s, like, looking for her cat. And he walks up to her, and I had to this at this point, after I saw the scene, I stopped it, and I called my wife into the room.   Now I knew she can’t watch this movie because of the gore, and and that would bother her. But I said, Honey, you have to see the next 5 minutes of this film so you can just get an idea of what I’m sitting through and how hilariously bad this is. 

Clip:  Hi. I’ve lost my cat. Have you seen it?   No. But do you know what? What? Cats have a way of finding their own way home, and I think that you should go home too because there’s a bad person out here tonight. Okay?   Okay.   So go home and lock your door, and don’t let anybody in. Not anybody, no matter what they say.   Okay. 

Todd:  You’re asking yourself at this point, why is this even in the movie? And this, we find out later, has a payoff off later. 

Craig:  Oh, it’s such a great setup. Like, we we may as well go ahead and say it’s such a because later on, Terry is chasing Karen around, and she’s going door to door trying to, let get people to let her in. And she ends up knocking on this little girl’s door, and the little girl’s like, The man told me not to let anybody in, and she’s like, no. Please. Please. 

Clip:  And she the little girl just goes, you’re gonna hurt my kitty.   While 

Craig:  I was sitting while I was sitting around last night watching TV with my partner, I just kept Saying those things, I just kept saying. And then he started saying it too. Like, he would just turn to me and be like, it’s not cranberry sauce. I’d be like, 

Clip:  you’re gonna hurt my kitty. 

Todd:  You can’t see that light. 

Craig:  Oh, no. Oh, but I I I swear, that’s gonna stick with me. It’s not cranberry sauce that’s gonna stick with me. I I just know it. That’s That’s gonna come back every Thanksgiving. 

Todd:  And then in another case of a seat that should have totally been cut out, but you’d know they just needed up the body count, so they had to include it, we get this Couple. This is the couple that, Andrea was babysitting for, and we get back to them. So they have returned home, and it’s this Supremely dolled up, 1980 style, you know, brunette woman. And this guy who again, My wife was watching this part with me as well because she had to see their interaction as they sat down on the sofa. And she said, is he mister Rogers? Yeah. Because he’s totally giving off this, it’s this some kind of amateur acting performance where he is Fumbling around and acting like he’s really, really nervous to be on this date with this woman. Is she gonna put the moves on him? In the meantime, She’s totally trying to put the moves on him, and we get this close-up of her face. And the expressions on her face just can’t be conveyed through audio.   I No. I don’t know what to say. It’s just hilarious. She’s her eyes are wide open, and she’s smiling at him and overreacting to words he says. And finally, she crawls up on him and tries to give him a kiss. And he brings his hands to his mouth like, and she walks off and says, I’m gonna go slip into something a little more comfortable. When she walks into the bedroom, she starts to dress, and we hear a baby cry. And she walks over to this baby, and I was like, Are you freaking kidding me? We’re gonna get a baby in this movie.   And sure enough, there’s a baby crying, 

Craig:  and she leans in and says, 

Clip:  Mama’s gonna get you a rich daddy. 

Craig:  Oh my gosh. That’s that’s that’s Freaking baby. Oh Todd. It’s so silly. 

Todd:  Even the baby has a payoff later too. 

Craig:  Yeah. Oh. Oh gosh. So Terry kills them. Like, he somehow gets inside. I don’t know. Like, apparently, he has, like, a master key to this whole complex or something. I don’t know.   True. No. You’re right. He does knock on the door, and the guy answers it. But then it’s all quiet, and the lady can’t find the guy. And then there’s another knock at the door and she looks out the peephole, and she’s like, what are you doing out there? And she opens it up, and it’s just the guy’s head hanging, like, from a rope at Eye level. It it’s funny, but it was kinda cool. I I have to give them, you know, props for at least trying Todd be a little bit innovative.   You know, it’s a guy walking around killing people with a machete. But when you see the aftermath, it’s usually pretty gross, and they usually try to do something visually interesting. 

Todd:  Yeah. In in that way, it was very much like intruder, I think. 

Craig:  I thought. At some point, Craig and Andrea go off and, like, first, they’re playing video games, and they’re playing tennis. And there’s, like all the all the while like, Terry is always just menacing. Like, he’s always just there, like, watching people. And then, eventually, Greg and Andrea end up at the swimming pool where they full on naked at this public swimming pool. 

Todd:  My gosh. 

Craig:  Doing it on the diving board. And you were right. The the movie does not shy away from nudity. There’s not The only thing that there’s not is male full frontal. Everything else you get. 

Todd:  Yeah. For a moment, I was like, did this slip into Porno territory? 

Craig:  It looks porny. Yeah. It’s very porny. 

Todd:  But it’s it’s also hilarious by this point that absolutely nobody cares that Todd is stalking around outside anymore. Like, they’re walking around. They’re playing tennis outside. They’re walking through the woods, having They’re leaving the win the doors wide open while they’re playing video games. I mean, at this point, the movie even forgets that there’s supposed to be some killer that everybody’s supposed to be worried 

Craig:  about. Right. Yeah. And that’s super silly. Getting back to the noodle because that’s my favorite. One one of my One of my favorite parts was at some point, Andrea takes a shower. And, like, it’s just so funny and so gratuitous because she’s got one of those, you know, like, detachable shower heads, and, really, she’s just bathing. But In a movie like this where they’re just showing her from the knees up totally nude, and she’s, like, washing her vagina.   Like 

Todd:  Well, she’s rubbing herself everywhere except for the place she should be watching, which is her face because presume because just before this, They played this dumb joke on the other couple where she had put on this elaborate makeup to make it look like she was dead. And when the other couple came into the room, was it Artie or I can’t remember which Guy was sprung out with a hatchet, you know, pretending like he was the killer. And so Yeah. The whole idea of her showering is that she’s supposed to be washing this makeup and stuff off her face, Except her hair is dry, and her face is dry. The only thing she’s showering is from the shoulders down, and she’s spending a lot of time on it. Oh gosh. 

Craig:  But, you know, thumbs up for a horror movie noodle that I’m I’m down. 

Todd:  Yeah. Because 

Craig:  Okay. So then it turns 

Clip:  into okay. 

Craig:  So, like, the Okay. So, like, the la the last 20 minutes and real the movie is only an hour and 20 minutes long. And, seriously, after hour, I was like, oh my god. There is still 20 minutes left of this movie. 

Todd:  Like It, feels like 2 hours. It for Sure. Yeah. 

Craig:  It does. And and the last 20 minutes is the classic thing where you’ve got the final girl running around being pursued by the killer And finding all the bodies. Like Yeah. You see it over and over again, Friday 13th. We’ve seen a 1000000 movies where, you know, in the last Sacked. The final girl who’s been kind of oblivious to everything that’s going on runs around and finds all the bodies. 

Todd:  She she’s go in this huge Complex, she happens to be visiting all the houses where he’s killed someone Todd. Right. It’s also very convenient. Yeah. 

Craig:  Right. And Terry like, Terry’s chasing her, but I don’t even know why because he not only does he find her, but, like, he could easily approach and kill her. But instead, he just kinda, like, just keeps following her. Like, it oh, so he chases her into, the apartment where there was the smarmy couple with the baby. And, of course, she takes the baby, and then she’s like for the rest of the movie, she’s running around with this baby. 

Todd:  Atel, He chases her, and she ends up in the pool. So she she runs into the pool, oh, how convenient, and sits down at the edge of the pool with her back to the door and just Chills for a while with the baby. Right. In the meantime, he comes in, behind her, and apparently, she doesn’t notice and starts bouncing up and down on the diving board. And she turns around. And instead of, like, fear and shock, it’s almost like an, oh, brother. Give me a break as she Looks at him and runs off. 

Craig:  Well and she turns around, and he’s just jumping up and down on the diving board, and he goes, hi. Exactly. 

Todd:  And she’s just like, Okay. And she runs off again. And that was the point at which I was like, oh, god. This is it is it is this supposed to be funny, or am I supposed to be taking this somewhat seriously? Because there’s, again, there’s no tension. There’s no suspense. Yeah. She runs with the baby into the locker room, And the first thing she does is open up a cabinet under a sink and toss the baby in while she runs and tries to find a place to 

Craig:  Right. Oh, man. Yeah. 

Clip:  And and 

Craig:  then she just she hides in the bathroom stall, and Terry comes in. And, like, this is Where this is where the pool sex couple, their bodies are. And, like, he knocks on the door where their Todd are, he’s like, you guys still in there? And then, like, he opens it and looks in and closes it and, like, smiles and shakes his head. He’s like, you crazy kids. You’ll just do it anywhere. And then he goes and pees in the urinal right next to where she is, but he doesn’t look in there. And at this point, like, I’m not like I’m wondering because I don’t care, but I I kind of wondered, like, does he know she’s in there and he’s just toying with her, or does he really not? Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter. 

Todd:  No. I was wondering why the baby wasn’t crying. 

Craig:  Right. Well, I mean, it it’s it was dark and tight in that little space, so I’m sure it was very comfortable. 

Todd:  I don’t know. 

Craig:  Meanwhile, the mom is kind of kind of sort of putting things together. Like, she finds, Terry’s bloody shirt that he had taken off earlier, she finds it in the bottom of the trash, and then she finally you know, she’s been trying and trying and trying, Like, the whole movie Todd call Brad, he’s like a 100 yards away. Like Yeah. He just works in in the office of the apartment complex that she lives in. Like, why wouldn’t she just run down there? Yeah. But eventually she does and she finds him mean, he’s dead and, like, his head is completely split open. And she grabs his gun and very dramatically says 

Clip:  I’m gonna make everything Okay. 

Craig:  Well, are you? I I don’t know how you you, like, tape his head back together. 

Todd:  I I don’t know. 

Craig:  But they but it all culminates in this scene at the pool where Todd finally shows up, and Karen gets behind Todd. The baby’s still in the bathroom. That’s awesome. So she gets behind Todd, and Todd points the gun at Terry. And Terry says, oh, are you gonna try to shoot me again? Because I feel like earlier, he had tried and failed or something. Mhmm. But Todd can’t do Good. So Karen grabs the gun and says she’s gonna kill him.   Does she pull the trigger and nothing happens? Is that what that’s like? 

Todd:  Click, click, click, click. Yeah. 

Craig:  Gotcha. That’s 

Todd:  exactly what it is. 

Craig:  So then we get the great scene where finally the 2 brothers come together, and they’re fighting. And, again, it’s you know, they can only show one of their faces at a time. 

Todd:  So it’s really poorly staged and unconvincing fight, which again reminded me of intruders. Yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. Terrible fist fighting. And it’s and it’s very brief, but they end up in the pool. Of course. And Terry is all Terry’s all cocky and, like, you know, laughing. And, Basically, he drowns Todd or so we think, and then Terry climbs up out of the other side of the pool, which doesn’t really make any sense. Like, he swam across the pool and talking to the other side. And Karen is trying to help Todd, and I guess eventually she gets ahold of him and starts to pull him out.   And then the mother walks into the frame very slowly, very Slowly, Terry sees her and is like, mom? And she raises the gun, and she shoots him. And she shoots him in the gut first, and it’s all very dramatic, and he’s reacting, and then she shoots him in the head. Platters. It’s pretty good effect. Yeah. And then eventually, he goes into the pool, and he’s dead. 

Todd:  Yep. And then at this point, the mother turns and looks down at Todd. I thought it was hilarious because the Karen is kind of watching this, and she just Kind of slowly slinks away. Like, I guess I better get out of here. 

Craig:  Well well, she run she runs off real quick to get the baby. 

Todd:  Well, it’s not real quick. It’s like, oh, okay. She goes off to get the baby. Right. 

Craig:  But then she comes back. Mhmm. 

Todd:  And then and but she leaves long enough for mom and Todd to have a little Scene, where mom lays bends down next to him is like and this, again, like you said, it almost like she’s a little too attached. 

Craig:  This was weird. It made me uncomfortable. 

Todd:  Yeah. This whole dramatic thing, it’s like she’s talking to her boyfriend. 

Craig:  And it looks like she’s gonna make out with them. 

Clip:  It’s okay. You’re safe. Oh, I love you so much. I love you so much. I’ve hurt you so much. I’m never gonna hurt you again. No one’s ever been to hurt you again. It’s us again.   It’s us again. It’s just It’s us again. No one’s ever gonna separate us again. You’re my whole life. Don’t wanna live without you. You know my world. It’s safe here. I don’t wanna be with anybody else.   We We don’t need anybody else. We just need to be with each other. That’s all. Oh, god. He’s such a A good boy. You’re such a good boy. You’re the bestest. You’re the bestest of the 

Craig:  best. It’s 

Clip:  just us telling. 

Todd:  So, clearly, she still she thinks that, still, that Todd was the murderer and that she killed Todd. He ends up gripping her by the The scruff of her neck. And I thought he was gonna, like, kill her. Mhmm. Mhmm. Except it would have been way out of his character to do so. And he says, I’m Todd. I’m Todd.   I’m Todd. And he stands up, and he starts walking toward the wall. I’m Todd. I’m Todd. And then it’s his close-up of him, and he’s just His his forehead is on the wall. I’m Todd. I guess it’s supposed to be echoing around inside the pool, and then it pans out, and she’s saying it Todd I’m trying I was like, what in the hell is this? In the meantime, this is when Karen there with the baby also looks at what’s going on and decides to sneak out the 

Craig:  It was so that was so funny to me. I’m just gonna go. Like, 

Todd:  I’m just gonna take 

Craig:  I’m just gonna take this baby 

Clip:  and get out of here. 

Todd:  By this point, things were getting a little too weird even for her. Yeah. 

Craig:  I could just I could just imagine the sequel where it’s, like, 20 years later, and Karen has raised this baby. 

Todd:  She’s named it Todd, naturally. Truly. Right. 

Craig:  And and so so Todd is like I don’t feel like he’s literally beating his head against the wall, but he may Welby. Like, he’s just standing there against the walls. You know? I’m Todd. I’m Todd. After all of that, like, it’s so weird. And then and I saw this coming a mile away. She Yeah. Picks up the gun and she shoots herself in the head.   And so then it’s just Todd there with all these dead people around, and you hear the sirens coming. Yeah. And, like, he kinda gets this worried look on his face, and I feel like it either fades to black or freeze frames. I think it freeze frames on his face. Frames. 

Todd:  It’s not classy enough to fade to black. 

Craig:  Yeah. And, and then that’s it. And so then I’m sitting there thinking, Jeez. Poor Todd is gonna take the fall for all of this. 

Todd:  I know. 

Craig:  And and and that’s it’s not how I expected it to end. I thought from the first half hour that I had it nailed. I thought that Todd is gonna come in, and he’s gonna be the hero, and He’s going to kill Terry, and then he will just assume Terry’s identity so that he can go on with his life. And, you know, Terry will get his comeuppance, and then everything will be okay. That would have been clever. Nope. Everybody’s just screwed. Happy Thanksgiving.   But 

Todd:  you don’t. 

Craig:  It’s not cranberry sauce. 

Todd:  But the baby lives, so there’s hope for the future. 

Craig:  Yep. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. Man. 

Todd:  I just I’d even though I wanted it to be over an hour into it, I really did enjoy Enjoy watching this movie again, not because it was great, but because it was so much fun to laugh at. And we’ve we’ve seen so many bad movies lately that are just Bad Bad and their torture that I was really happy to find one of those so bad, in my opinion, anyway. So bad it was good Kinda movies, in every way. I liked it even better. I I keep drawing those parallels, but I liked it even better than Intruder. I thought it was more entertainingly inept. 

Craig:  The only reason that I liked it was because I knew that it would be fun to talk to you about. Otherwise And and, you know, I’ll be honest. Like, I wasn’t in a good state of mind to watch it. I actually started watching it at work because I was I knew that I wasn’t gonna have a lot of time, in the evening. And and so I started the very end of the day when I was done with everything I had to do. I watching at work, and then I came home and I watched the last part of it. I didn’t set myself up for a good experience. 

Todd:  You really did. That’s a shame. 

Craig:  Yeah. But, it it was fun to talk about, and it I do think that it is something that could be fun. And that’s the thing. Like, if I had been watching it with you, I think we woulda had a good time with it. I think we woulda had fun laughing together about it. Sitting and watching it by myself, I was just like, ugh. Come on. Like 

Todd:  Yeah. Don’t watch this movie by yourself. Yeah. 

Craig:  No. No. You know, get get somebody else who appreciates, You know, bad horror movies. And if if if you can do that, then I think that you’ll you could have a good time with this movie. It’s it’s certainly not the worst we’ve seen. We’ve seen, way worse. And it is even though I May not have been in the best state of mind. It was laugh out loud funny at sometimes, and I I did laugh out loud.   So, I’m not gonna give it I’m not gonna criticize too much. 

Todd:  And it was quintessential late seventies, early eighties, early, you know, slasher fair, and that was Kind of neat about it as well. And I thought, actually, the music was quite good. At least the theme song was quite good. I stayed through the end credits just to hear the music because it took me back. Even looked up the composer, and I found out now he hasn’t really done anything else. So, yeah, kudos to that guy. 

Craig:  Well, that’s it, folks. That’s our Thanksgiving episode. It ate cranberry sauce. It ate cranberry sauce. If you enjoyed this episode, we have all kinds of back So as you can find us everywhere, you can anywhere you can find your favorite podcast. We’re on Facebook. We’re on Stitcher. We’re on Google Play, Itunes, all over Place.   If you have seen this movie and have anything to add to the conversation, we’d love to hear from you. Or even though it’s a little bit early, if you know of any good thanks Giving movies that we should consider in the future. We’re getting pretty hard up at this point. So It’s a tough holiday for horror. It is. It is. But that being said, we hope that you are having a good holiday season surrounded by family and friends. And, if you’ve got a long drive, we hope that we can keep you company.   Anyway, until next time. I’m Craig. And I’m Todd. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Stuart Gordon sure has the market cornered on killer doll movies. This more or less kicked off a line of low-budget features in the same vein that would sit on video shelves for decades. It’s not a great one, but there is a certain charm about this borderline kids’ horror film that we explore in this week’s episode.

Episode 148, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Craig: Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: And today….well, actually, lately, Todd has been very generous in letting me select, the movies that we talk about. And, I’m I’m afraid that eventually he’s gonna start to regret that decision. Are you

Todd: talking about today’s movie by chance?

Craig: Alright. So this today’s movie is, from 1987. It is, Dolls directed by Stuart Gordon. It’s a Charles Band production. It was written by Ed Naha and I picked this movie mostly because, I found it on Amazon Prime and I remembered really liking this movie as a kid. This is one of the movies that I remember distinctly from the video store because the box art was very simple, but very cool. It was just this doll holding its own eyeballs. Mhmm. And, you know, just the very simple title dolls. And for whatever reason that was very appealing to me as a kid. I found it spooky and interesting and I remember making my dad rent this for me multiple times and I remembered really enjoying it. So I was really looking forward to going back and watching it, plus it’s only an hour and 17 minutes long which is also a bonus. We like short movies. It’s true. And so I was I was stoked to, sit down and watch it again and frankly okay. Like, I don’t know if I wanna say I was disappointed because Todd that I liked about it as a kid are still there. It it has an interesting charm and it is one of those movies that I feel like I don’t know if it was intentionally geared towards kids. In fact, I don’t think that it was, but there’s something about it that I think is appealing to kids because I don’t know. It doesn’t really it kind of comes from the perspective of the child actress, who plays the lead role. But there’s also some good, practical effects and and gore effects. And those things I still appreciate. Beyond that, is it the greatest movie? No, probably not. Do you have any history with this movie at all? Had you seen it before?

Todd: Well, a lot like you, Craig. I, remember seeing the box art, the doll with his eyes pulled out and, a little bit of a skull face underneath there. But no, I never rented this before. I wouldn’t have even imagined that it is what I would almost consider, almost consider a kids horror movie. Yeah. Especially when you look at who made it. You’ve got Stuart Gordon here, who’s the reanimator guy.

Craig: Yep.

Todd: Charles Band, who did the puppet master and all that stuff. Although, those movies aren’t terribly brutal or anything like that. Mhmm. It was actually in the course of investigating this movie after I watched it that I realized that that crew of people Ed Naha, Stuart Gordon, and Brian Usna, all 3 were responsible for writing Honey, I Shrunk the Kids.

Craig: Oh, that’s right. You’ve told me that before. That’s funny.

Todd: Yeah. So, I guess I shouldn’t have been too too surprised that they can kind of that, you know, that they’re flexible people. But, yeah, coming from Stuart and Gordon and remembering what a kinda crazy movie, Re Animator was and definitely a little bit more in the schlocky horror fare, I was surprised to see that this was almost a kid’s movie. And you’re right. It comes from that kid’s perspective, and that’s what’s so charming about it. But it’s really it’s definitely not a perfect film.

Craig: No. It’s it’s not, but I feel like it had a lot of potential.

Todd: It did. It’s like it fell flat, you know. It just fell a little short of that potential. Right?

Craig: Yeah. This this strikes me as something that is ripe for a remake. Like, I feel like they Todd do a lot more with it given the opportunity. You know, it’s interesting. I I don’t remember exactly how it came about, but I believe it was, the the producer or one of the producers who came across this concept art. I don’t know if they commissioned it or if they just found it somewhere, but they had, to begin with, that box cover concept art of the doll holding its own eyeballs, and they wanted to just go from there. And they had this idea of, you know, a movie about a killer doll. And the producer just said, you know what? They gave the writer, Ed Naha, they said, you’ve got complete freedom, but we want it to be about a killer doll, and you’ve got to incorporate this box art somehow into the movie. And and this is where it went. And, you know, it’s it’s very much akin to Puppet Master. I mean It is. You know, you could almost if they had chosen to call this puppet master 5 or whatever it would have been at the time, that would have been appropriate. And and they could have easily, you know, used some of their classic puppet master dolls in place of some of these more generic dolls, and it would have felt very much like a Puppet Master movie because it is. I mean, that’s what you got. You’ve got a bunch of killer dolls basically running around and causing havoc. But it’s got this cute little setup.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: We start out with this family on the Todd, and the dad is David, played by Ian Patrick Williams, the stepmother. She’s not the child’s mother, which they make great pains of of making very clear. Rosemary and she’s played by Carolyn Purdy Gordon, who is the director’s wife and who apparently starred in several of his movies, and then the little girl named Judy played by Carrie Lorraine. And they are out on vacation apparently Yeah. And they end up getting stuck in this big thunderstorm and they have to, you know, as often happens in these types of movies, they have to find somewhere to get out of the storm and then, of course, they find this big creepy mansion.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: One of the things that I find interesting about the movie now and I don’t remember noticing it so much as when I when I was a kid and maybe it’s because when I was a kid, you’re less observant of over the Todd sorts of things, but one of the things that just struck me from the beginning is that these parents are just awful. And she and she’s so sweet like she’s this sweet cute little thing, and they are just nasty like when the car breaks down, the dad has to get out and push and, of course, the mom is just over the top awful. Like, she’s this rich bitch for lack of a better Todd, and it’s obvious that they don’t want this little girl with them and, like, they they don’t even try to hide that fact from the kid.

Todd: They’re saying in front of her. They’re saying this stuff to her. Yeah.

Craig: Here’s a

Clip: little help out here, dearest. Unless you plan on levitating this thing, I think it’s here to stay. Oh, damn. Daddy. You gonna kill that kid? Standing wide.

Todd: Yeah. You expect the sort of evil stepmother trope. You you don’t expect the the the jerk ass dad who also doesn’t want her around.

Craig: Right. And you know, they do a good job of making Rosemary. You know, she looks like an evil stepmother. You know, she’s Yeah. She’s all glammed out in her, like, turban and too much makeup and her fur coat. But the dad looks like a nice dad from a movie, but he’s not. He’s horrible too.

Todd: Why does he even have custody?

Craig: What’s the deal there? Exactly. Apparently, the the, Judy’s mom lives in Boston or something and she Judy spends the summers with her parent with her dad. And at some point in the movie, the dad’s like, I know you don’t like spending the summer with me. Guess what? I don’t really like it either. It’s terrible.

Todd: And and it’s also terrible. Like, you know, what you’re saying is so true, when you’re quoting these lines. So much of this movie, what part of what’s really flawed about it is the writing is like that. Right?

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: The writing just tells, spells out everything for us as if we can’t figure it out for ourselves. At some point, the characters are gonna say something and point things out to the audience time and time again.

Craig: Well and I’ve seen it online described. You know, I was reading about, like, the critical reception of it, and it got really mixed critical reviews at the time. Some critics liked it, some didn’t. One of them called it, a modern day fairy tale, and I don’t remember where it went that. But I get that. It is kind of like a modern day fairy tale.

Clip: It is.

Craig: And that the characters are very one note and, over the Todd, And the writing really is not that good, I guess, unless you’re a kid and you don’t really question motivation. Like, for example, when they are making their way in the rain to this old spooky mansion, and Judy’s like, that’s Teddy. He’s my best friend. We go everywhere together. And she’s And Judy’s like, that’s Teddy. He’s my best friend. We go everywhere together. And she’s like, well, not today. And she’s frozen in the woods, like, for no reason. Like Yeah. That was so mean.

Todd: She makes some flippant comment like, we’ll move a lot faster without this guy or whatever. But, like, no. She’s she’s just holding him in his arms and in her arms, and she’s walking along just fine behind you. But it’s it’s it’s pretty bad. And, also, it’s really not raining even though it’s supposed to be raining. Right. But when they’re inside the car, it’s raining on the window. As soon as they step outside the car, it’s not raining. When they’re walking down the street, it’s not raining. Although, they talk about how it’s raining and they’re getting wet.

Craig: The the Todd thing about I I mean, it’s a setup because, you know, she throws this teddy bear out into the woods and then Judy, who apparently is known for having a vivid imagination, plays out this whole fantasy in her mind where the teddy bear grows to, like, beyond life size. And That’s so wonderful. Yeah. It’s really good. And, like, it comes out of the woods looking like a teddy bear, but then, like, it busts out of its teddy bear seams to reveal this terrifying, not realistic looking, but, like, this monstrous bear that then gruesomely, like, dismembers and eats the parents. And

Todd: and then turns towards her, like, shrugs his shoulders like

Craig: Yeah. Because she says, Teddy, no. And it turns around like, oops. Sorry.

Todd: I love that bit. Actually, I thought that as as clunky as that was setting that up, I thought it really set a tone or at least

Craig: it

Todd: was trying to set a tone for what, you know, the movie is going to be like. That it’s it’s going to be a bit of a comedy, and it’s also gonna be a little kiddish. Uh-huh. Right? Again Yeah. Points out that, like you said, this is gonna be from the perspective of the girl and has to do a lot with her imagination. So, you know, I don’t know. Once once we hear later on when they keep talking about her imagination in in such a nasty

Craig: I don’t wanna hear it anymore.

Clip: No more fairies, elves, princesses, ghosts, goblins, trees. I’m sick of it all. Okay? I don’t wanna hear any more stories for the rest of the summer. Now get out of here. Go to bed. But Out. But, daddy Better do what he says, short stuff. He may not be able to give you a swap, but I can.

Craig: And that in and of itself is just awful. Like, stop having an imagination. Yeah. Like, come on. Like, it’s a kid. We were alone. But the other thing that I like about that scene is it it it evidences the fact that there are some really cool practical effects going on in this movie. And, the when there is violence and and gore and bloodshed, it looks good. Like, the the scene in which it occurs may be ridiculous, but the the effects themselves actually look quite good and I I was impressed with that.

Todd: It is. And this is, I think, something we said about Puppet Master 2. Right? About how as as ridiculous as it gets at times, that we thought that it did a pretty good job of making these puppets look real. Yeah. And giving them personality. That’s surprising, honestly, because how much, even like Barbarella, have you ever seen Barbarella? No. Those little dolls in that movie that, I think it actually shot around the same time this did. Even they don’t look as, realistic as these dolls do when they’re moving around and and doing stuff. It’s really quite cool.

Craig: I haven’t seen it, but I did read that they were inspired by that movie for the look of these dolls in this movie.

Todd: Did you really? Are you kidding me?

Craig: -No, I read that.

Todd: -Well, I’m There must be some, like, subconscious connection because at least one of those dolls looked exactly like the little dolls that come after Jane Fawn and Barbarella in one of the scenes. And I It it just sprung to my head. So, it’s interesting to hear. Well, I guess that’s why.

Craig: There you go.

Todd: My other favourite part of this movie is now, so they come to this house, and they go in, they knock on the door, and nobody answers. And so they sneak inside, into the basement. Again, to get out of the rain that that’s not there.

Clip: -Right.

Todd: -And it’s funny because, as they go inside, suddenly the rain comes down again on this girl. And as they come inside and pull her into it, suddenly, everybody’s dry again. Even though Mom is complaining about how the rain ruined her fur coat, which looks completely dry. There’s, Iike, so much of this going on in the movie Todd, that’s a Iittle distracting. But again, like you said, as a kid, you probably overlooked this sort of thing. Yeah. They come in, and the little girl sees a little something out of the corner of her eye, but and we do too, but we don’t get a quick enough we don’t get us a long enough look at it. It just looks like maybe little yellow glowing eyes or something in the corner. And this is another neat thing about this movie is this build that it gives. Whereas, as we go into this house, and as we’re going through this house, and through throughout the house, you just see little movements. You see dolls. You see them sometimes through there. Sometimes, they seem to disappear. Sometimes, they seem to be looking in a in one direction, in one Craig, and then, another direction when the shot comes back to it. And it’s so subtle in many cases and so quick that it’s really creepy. It is creepy. It’s done really well, I think.

Craig: And it it’s subtle to the extent that, like, it’s just little things that happen, but they also make no mystery of the fact that these dolls move, you know, and are animated. You know, like, you see it from the very beginning. It’s it’s not

Todd: you’re not

Craig: asking right. You’re not asking yourself, oh, are they really no. They they are.

Todd: It’s like a close-up of a face that looks left and right. You know? It’s gonna be something

Craig: like that. Exact and, like, the doll’s eyes will be a little bit bloodshot. They look they look pretty cool.

Todd: But I love this setting. This house looks fantastic. It does. This is such a great haunted house. It’s kind of like a haunted house movie. It’s like a classic haunted house movie. The way the set is decorated, the the layout of the house, and the sweet older couple who live there

Clip: Mhmm.

Todd: Who have just enough of a sinister edge.

Craig: Just enough. Yeah. Not much. Just enough.

Todd: No. It’s like, they seem okay. Like, like, at first, you think, Oh, man, these guys stepped into the lion’s den. But then, as the scenes go on, and we get to know more about this couple and, their names are Gabriel and Hillary.

Clip: Mhmm.

Todd: And they’re older. And they’re both recognisable actors, an an actress in this movie. Actually, Hillary, you might have recognized from Don’t Look Now.

Craig: Oh. No. I didn’t recognize her. That’s funny.

Todd: She’s she’s the blind woman.

Craig: No. I didn’t notice that and I didn’t know if they were recognizable or if they were just So archetype. Right. Exactly. Exactly. But in a good way, you know, like this old British couple and he’s tall and distinguished and handsome, and she’s a little bit more diminutive, but they’re both gray haired and they just seem like this sweet couple. And and they, like, it’s almost ridiculous how inviting they are. Like, yes yes, they greet them in the basement with the shotgun because these people broke into their house. But as soon as they see that they have a little girl with them, then they are very welcoming and inviting and say you can stay here. That’s fine. Eventually, some other people show up. This guy this this bigger guy, Ralph. And when I say bigger, I don’t mean, like, you know, morbidly obese, and I also don’t mean, like, you know, professional wrestler. Just, you know, this kinda portly nice looking guy. Yeah. He shows up, and he has picked up these 2 hitchhikers who we actually saw on the street when the other people were driving along who are dressed in their best Madonna Craig. Like, I Yeah. One of them is dressed specifically like Madonna and the other one is very much inspired and actually wears the boy toy belt that Madonna wore in the eighties. Yeah. And they’re funny.

Todd: And they have the heaviest cockney accents you could they could possibly muster.

Craig: Absolutely. And, I didn’t recognize either of them, but one of them, Isabelle, was the girl the the hot girl from the Take on Me video which is

Todd: Oh, really?

Craig: Yeah. Which is one of the greatest music videos of all time.

Todd: Of all time. And one of the best songs of all time too.

Craig: Yeah. It’s really good. But, you

Todd: know, they’re totally playing to type. Punk eighties, the hooligans. Yeah.

Craig: Right. Right. Bunty Bailey was her name. It’s a great name. Is that a

Todd: given name?

Craig: I I don’t know. But so all these people show up, and it turns out that Gabriel is a toymaker, which it and and he has this little monologue where he explains that kids today aren’t interested in the kinds of toys he makes anymore. The kinds of toys that are made with love and care and that are, you know, one of a kind. And, of course, Judy’s like, I do.

Clip: One thing I’ve noticed about you, you don’t have a doll. That doesn’t seem natural to me. A little girl without a doll is somehow incomplete. I had Teddy when I left the carvet. But the clumsy little deer dropped him in the forest. I I dropped him in the forest. That’s a shame. I can’t replace Todd, but I can make sure you have some company whilst you’re here.

Craig: So Gabriel gives her this doll, which is a a punch. He calls it mister Punch. It’s a punch doll. And, of course, it’s a play on Punch and Judy, which I don’t really know the history of this. Do you like, the name is familiar to me and I recognize the look of the doll with the hooked nose and he’s like a jester. But Punch and Judy, was that like an old TV show from, like, the fifties?

Todd: Oh, Punch and Judy goes back even further than that. I think it’s, like, goes back to medieval times. This was a classic 2 character, and, historically, puppets, like, a puppet theater kind of thing. Well, it’s one of those things, one of those British things, you know, like pantomime and whatnot

Clip: Gotcha.

Todd: Where, yeah. You just had this this Punch doll and this Judy doll. And they would argue and fight with each other. And Punch actually would would hit Judy with, like, a bat or a club or something like.

Craig: Oh, now that you say that I can see it in my mind. Mhmm. So I know that I’ve seen it, or some iteration of it.

Todd: And it looks just like this doll. Yeah, the classic punch look is is this this doll here. So yeah, that that was that was cute. I I thought it was hilarious when they’re at the table and they’re discussing, stuff, and I don’t know what what work one guy does. And then Rosemary asks, what kind of work is that? Witchcraft? You remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they and they both look at each other and then and these two forced laughs like, oh my gosh.

Craig: You figured us out. Yeah. It’s it’s funny. Like, they blow it off. And and so all these people are together in this spooky old mansion, and Gabriel takes them all around and gives them their own rooms. And, the wicked parents are pleased that they’re gonna have their own room and Judy’s gonna have a different room. Mhmm. Judy and Ralph are the last ones to be escorted to their rooms. And before they even get that, Gabriel shows them, like, his workshop, I think. Ralph is enamored immediately like you see.

Todd: Ralph is a little too overly excited about Todd, I’m afraid.

Craig: He is, but it’s cute. And it’s funny It’s cute. It’s funny because it’s like he knows that he shouldn’t be so excited about it, but he is. And Gabriel picks up on that immediately and he’s like, oh, you like dolls Todd. And he’s like, oh, well, yeah. I did when I was a kid. And he has a whole story that I feel like, you know, this had to be one of the bases of the plot.

Clip: My father taught me everything I know. Funny. I was just thinking about my dad. He used to tell us stories about how toys woke up after we were asleep, and they’d start to wander all over the house.

Todd: So I

Clip: stayed up night after night to see if I can catch my toys playing on their own. Never made it, but,

Craig: I figured, well,

Clip: if they’re having such a good time with or without me, they might as well eat. So I, I started leaving cookies for them under my bed. And what happened? I raised several healthy families of ants.

Craig: As it turns out, I if I remember correctly, he lost his parents when he was very young. And so he’s kind of held on to some of these childhood things and then in fact, he does, you know, kind of have an affection for toys and dolls and stuff, which ultimately ends up being significant to the plot. It’s silly and it’s over the top and the actor who plays him, Stephen Lee, plays it over the top. Yeah. It’s cute. Like, he feels like a big kid and he feels like a suitable companion for Judy and that and they do. They come together. They bond. When Judy starts seeing things and hearing things in the house, she goes to her parents, but her parents don’t believe her at all. And so she goes to Ralph eventually and is like, do you believe kids when they tell you stuff? And he’s like, yeah. I guess. And she tells him the stuff that’s going on. And even though he’s skeptical, he doesn’t just brush her off like her parents do. And it’s nice. They have a cute little relationship.

Todd: And this is this is again I believe we talked about this in another movie too. Oh, it must have been Invaders from Mars. Right? Where that’s like every kid’s kind of fear and also fantasy. It’s that adults will believe me. Right? -Right. -And this movie plays on that as well. Ralph is the kid at heart. He’s the only adult who’s gonna believe the kid. And even though he is over the top with it, he he’s got kind of an aw shucks way of of going about it all. He has this, like, naivete and innocence that’s, you know, really unbelievable, but it’s also really cute. And it’s fun to see in this movie. And, at least, you kinda know where everybody’s going to stand. Like, there’s no question Ralph is gonna live through this, you know. Right. Right. And and, also, I feel like that scene, that early scene when they have that discussion about the dolls, not only does it set up that really important plot point and, again, hit you on the head with this whole, oh, yeah. Dolls come to life, as if we haven’t seen enough dolls coming to life just before this. It it also, really, I think, kind of establishes that if you are cool with the old people, you’re gonna be fine. Right. Right? That these these old people are not, you know, it’s not like you you stumbled into Dracula’s den and they’re out to get you. It’s They are kindly old witches or whatever. -Yeah. -They all make their wits out. -Right. Yeah. Yeah. But they’re nice and friendly as long as you’re also nice and friendly.

Craig: And that’s how it turns out. I mean, it’s all it’s really a test, really. Mhmm. If you’re a good decent person, you’re gonna be okay. And if you’re an asshole, then you’re gonna get what’s coming to you.

Todd: And and our first asshole is the one of the one woman that dressed like Madonna.

Craig: Right.

Todd: What was her name? Was she

Craig: Isabelle. She was Isabelle.

Clip: Did you hear what she said? Yeah. We can play the radio for a while. Oh. About the antique keys. Well, what about them? But this place is loaded with them. I bet they’re gold jewelry and stuff stashed somewhere. We could swipe it tonight, leave in the morning, and those 2 would notice it for days, or maybe even years. No. They call the police. You see any phones around? We could make a fortune here. Wow.

Craig: A lot more than we

Clip: could nicking old Ralphie boy’s wallet.

Todd: And so she goes out because she’s less afraid of wandering out in the dark by herself. And I think she’s even holding like a lighter or a candelabra or something. That’s the other cute thing about this movie. It’s like, nobody has a flashlight.

Craig: No. And there’s electricity in the house and yet, they will still walk around with these great candelabras, but that’s fun. It’s a great haunted house feel. Again, it

Todd: gives it that good feel. Right? It’s like House on Haunted Hill. It’s like the same kinda deal. So that she’s wandering around this house. And, again, this house is awesome. And it is so classic, haunted house. And it’s filled with antiques. This movie doesn’t look cheap at all in this way. Anyway, she wanders around and sure enough, as she’s rifling through the drawers and things, we see dolls looking at her, turning towards her. Again, they’re dolls stuffed in every nook and cranny of this house including on top of a mantle, of a room that she’s in, of a fireplace of a room that she’s in, and she turns and she opens a music box and she walks away and the music box, you know, opens back up again and then, this is kind of all this back and forth until the dolls finally jump on her. She’s on the floor and something is dragging her across the floor and then grabs her arms and pulls her arms out and slides her towards the wall and just basically hits her head into the wall several times and then slides it out into the hallway where Judy sees it, because she’s up getting a drink of water. And that horrifies her as this Madonna girl looks up at her with this bloodied bruised face, reaches up in that classic help me pose, and gets sucked around the corner, again by these unseen dolls.

Craig: Yeah. I thought that scene was good too, and it was, effectively brutal. You know, she gets her face smashed up against the the baseboard and stuff, and and I thought that it was especially brutal because Judy witnesses the aftermath and it is pretty gross and, like, for a kid to see that kind of stuff is a little unsettling.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: But I I wanted to go back to what you were saying about the house because it is so cool, and they built all of that. Like, apparently they built this 2 story structure in a soundstage and it was, you know, really just like the interior of a house with hallways and rooms that they could enter and exit out of, and all around it, you know, was there was no exterior. It was just the interior on the sound stage, but you’re right. It looks great. I mean, it’s it’s so convincing as this old spooky house and they do it up so well. And one of the other things that I liked about it is that the dolls and the toys are so omnipresent, like, they’re everywhere and there are tons of them. Everywhere you look there are these dolls and they’re these old fashioned like porcelain faced dolls, most of them, and from afar, they look very normal. But when you whenever they do close ups on them, they’re obviously, you know, effects created dolls with with movable eyes and even their faces have some mobility, and they’re they’re super spooky. You know, this was made in the eighties and it was made primarily with practical effects and there are some times I noticed at least once, when you can see the strings manipulating them.

Todd: Oh, yeah.

Craig: But but I didn’t care. I don’t know. I just thought it was fun and that’s the thing. It’s not a great movie. It’s really not. Yeah. There’s really you there’s a lot of criticism that you could hurl at it, but there’s also some really cool stuff going on and and I I don’t know, for that alone I at least appreciate it. It’s it’s kinda cool on that level.

Todd: You know, you do hate to you do hate to knock this movie too much because it does have a lot of heart. Yeah. And it’s effectively made. Not effectively made. It’s well made. You know, I mean, so much of it is well made. The cinematography is fantastic. Again, some of these actors, mostly the old people, you know, are really quite good. Nobody else is. The girl’s not very good. You know, I was just thinking Ralph reminds me a little bit of, like, a younger Sean Austin. He was giving me a little bit of that Sean Austin vibe.

Craig: Yeah. I I can see that a little bit. It’s funny you you said that and then my mind immediately went to Sean Penn, and I’m thinking maybe a little bit more Chris Penn.

Todd: No. Like, Goonies era, Sean Austin, you know.

Craig: Well, he’s got that kind of, you know, dough wide innocent

Todd: thing going on. It’s hilarious when Judy goes in to wake him up and do what you had said earlier and, you know, to wake him up and say, hey, do you believe kids when they say things? And he’s sort of like, yeah. Sure. And she says, well, these dolls would have killed this this girl. And he’s like, oh, okay. I’m going back to bed. And she’s like, oh, you said you’d believe me. And kinda shakes him. And as she walks away, he looks down and he sees.

Clip: What’s that on your slippers? I don’t know. That’s blood. Yeah. Well, it was pretty bloody when they dragged her away.

Todd: So funny.

Craig: It is funny. And there are part, you know, like, I don’t know if they were intentionally playing it for comedy, but there are parts that are so over the top especially towards the end that, you know, they they had to kind of at least be a little bit in on the joke.

Todd: I think so. I think so.

Craig: But I’m I’m cool with it, like, that’s fine. Basically then, you know, from here what happens is all of the bad people kind of get picked off as Judy and Ralph are kind of walking around and exploring. And I think the next one to go is the stepmother. Right? Rosemary?

Todd: Mhmm.

Craig: It’s it’s very simple, you know, like she’s just laying in her bed and all of a sudden she starts seeing things under her covers moving and the dolls are giggling. The dolls are always giggling. I read that the director, you know, it was his wife and kids and family friends and things who recorded all of these giggles, that were that are pretty funny. So she throws the covers off and what do you know? They’re here are all these dolls. Mhmm. And and they, you know, they look mean, like, they’ve got mean faces and they’ve got, like, knives.

Todd: They’re all stabbing.

Craig: Yeah. And that’s it. And they do. They start stabbing her and then she gets up and they’re They’re like like trying to hack off her limbs with a hacksaw while she’s just standing there and, like, having their

Todd: They have a hacksaw.

Craig: And eventually, you know, eventually she, you know, kinda starts trying to fight back. And it all happens relatively quickly. And and again, eventually, like, the dolls are every time she turns around, there’s just like dozens of dolls, like, in her path menacing her. And eventually, I don’t know what her thought process was here. No. She goes and takes a flying leap over one of the groups of dolls out the window. And apparently that’s what killed her. Now I read that when they initially shot the movie and the producers watched it, they wanted more gore. And so they actually went back in and refilmed a bunch of shots with a lot more gore. And one of the shots that they filmed was one of the dolls disemboweling Rosemary with a pitchfork. And and there were lots of other things Todd, apparently, but then I guess they shot all that footage and then they went back and watched it with all that footage and they were like, yeah, never mind. Too gory. It’s a little too much.

Todd: I would almost argue it’s already too gory. Like, it just, tonally it this movie, I think, almost could have been a little more successful if well, I don’t know. Probably not. But, you know, there’s a lot more that had to be improved. But it could have been a little more successful if it had been more squarely aimed at kids, I

Craig: think. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. And the only thing that keeps it from being squarely aimed at kids is I I said to my wife, I said, you could cut 10 seconds out of this movie and you could show it to to any kid.

Craig: Right. But without cutting those 10 seconds, probably not because it it is pretty brutal and and the effects look pretty good. They look pretty real and bloody and gross and

Todd: Mhmm.

Craig: Yeah. Probably a little too much for little kids. Now I I guess maybe I was just a weird little kid because that stuff didn’t bother me. But I certainly wouldn’t show it to my niece and nephew yet. You know? Like, they’re 10 and 7. No. Too little.

Todd: They’re not as weird as you, Craig.

Craig: I know. And it makes me sad all the time, but it’s alright. And then so Rosemary gets killed and then, Todd, was that her name, the other Madonna girl, she goes out looking for Isabelle. And this was it’s, I don’t know, kinda cool, I guess. Like, she makes her way up to the attic where where, Isabelle has been dragged and she’s looking around. And the first time she’s up there, she actually ends up getting up there a couple of times. But the first time she’s up there, she doesn’t find anything. But we see Isabelle tied up in a corner in the dark and, frankly, it just looked like the actress wearing a doll mask at first.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: But the the idea that you’re supposed to get is that she’s turning into a doll. And eventually Todd makes her way back up there and she finds Isabelle. And this is where we get the homage to the cover art that the producer demanded. Isabelle, like, leans forward and her doll eyeballs fall out of her head into the pool of blood between her legs and she picks them up and holds them next to her head, and Enid screams and tries to run away. And then the dolls get her. And I I liked this scene too because one of the things I don’t know if we’ve talked about it on the podcast, but I think that you and I have talked about it. Like, even, about, like, the child’s play series. Like, how are these people getting killed? Like, it’s a doll.

Todd: Just Yeah.

Craig: Pick it up and toss it away. Yeah. And I I liked that this movie addressed that to an extent. Like, when she’s fighting the dolls, eventually she pulls off her boy toy belt with the big boy toy belt buckle, and she just starts whipping them with it. And that is effective for a while. She can keep them at bay.

Todd: And she’s burning them. Yeah.

Craig: Yes. Yes. And and there’s also some cool stuff here, like, when she breaks away their porcelain faces, there’s, like, these decrepit monstrous looking skeletons underneath, which is kinda cool.

Todd: Well, and that was unexpected to me. And, again, I guess, maybe maybe that comes from the the cover art. Right? But it makes us different. See, when when you watch this and you’re first watching it, and the guy says that he’s a doll maker and he has his workshop and he has legitimate doll parts and everything everywhere, you’re thinking this is kind of a Toulon thing. Right? That he is he’s made these these these plastic and porcelain dolls come to life. But what we’ve later find out as this goes along as evidenced by Isabelle, you know, turning into a doll, is no. They’re turning people into dolls. And so that’s what makes the dolls alive. They’re just like creatures that are just, like, disguised as dolls. It’s like Right. So when they break when they you know, their porcelain shatters, and underneath them is just, like you said, this kinda gross looking face that’s like, I guess, supposed to be a shrunken human without skin or something. It’s, it’s definitely shocking, and it’s nice to get a little twist like that at this point in the film. Yeah. And I thought, legitimately, that bit when earlier on when they’re up in the attic looking around and they don’t see her but we do Mhmm. That is the creepiest part of the whole film.

Craig: Yeah. It was kinda creepy. And and it’s funny because I again, I was, you know, just reading stuff about this and they had already released the girl who played Isabelle, so it was actually the director’s wife who plays Rosemary. It was actually her.

Todd: Oh, really?

Craig: Yeah. It was actually her under that mask. And, you know, it’s we talked about this. We talked about this when we reviewed 31 about how Rob Zombie cast his wife all the time. Apparently, Stuart Gordon worked with his wife regularly. I think she was in Re Animator. She was in a few of his other movies too. You know, just to read kind of some of the backstory of some of this that it’s cool to see how these people who have intimate relationships with one another support each other. You know? Like Yeah. Carolyn Purdy Gordman Gordon, not only did she play her own role, but then she also played Isabelle when she was turning it she was also, you know, some of the voices of the laughing dolls. I don’t just those little production details are just kind of interesting to

Clip: read about.

Todd: I do I do have to say that this girl’s demise, much like much like her demise, is really disappointing. You know, she puts up a good fight, and she does her own version of jumping out the window, where she comes in front of a line of Todd soldier dolls. And for some reason, this stops her in her tracks, Like, she doesn’t wanna whip them, and there’s not really clear why. And she just stands there

Craig: Mhmm.

Todd: While the general doll raises his saber and the lineup of infantry dolls shoots her. And they shoot, like, real bullets, I guess. And they blast her away. Like, why didn’t she just run up and kick them over?

Craig: Right. Of course. Of course. Why not? But at the same time, I kind of liked it because it was okay, I can just whip them with my belt and then they’re not dangerous anymore. And then she comes out and she sees and the the toy soldier dolls are super cute. Like

Todd: Mhmm.

Craig: They look like super cute toy soldiers and but then they end up being deadly, and it’s kind of the answer to that question. Like, yeah. You can whip some of us, but we have guns. So

Todd: And hacksaws. Yeah.

Craig: And and they do, like, they blow her away. Like, you know, she’s got squibs under her, clothes that blow out. Like, it’s it’s pretty gruesome.

Todd: Yeah. It really is.

Craig: And then she’s done then there’s a scene where Judy and Ralph are looking around and they end up in the storage room. And this was my favorite scene with the dolls because this was when the dolls were the most animated. First of all, they were they reveal themselves. Judy, at some point, sits down with Ralph and she’s got her punch doll and punch speaks.

Clip: Do you know something that I don’t know? I, I guess I do. Oh, honey. I wish I knew what you were talking about. You know Ralph. Deep down inside, you know.

Craig: They reveal themselves and then they end up in this, storage room and all the dolls animate and and come to life and they’re not threatening.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Actually, now that I say this is my favorite part with the dolls, this is also maybe the part that frustrates me the most because I feel like Ralph acts totally out of character in this part. Yeah. Because he starts he’s like, well, we gotta get out of here. Damn these dolls. And he starts like stomping on them and stuff and I get why for the purposes of the plot The plot. He needed to do that, but it just seemed out of character.

Todd: It was a it was a 180 degrees out of his character.

Craig: Right. You’re right. And It put him on the same level as all the other adults, which

Todd: And it was stupid because the whole reason that the dolls are not attacking, for example, Judy, is because she’s kind and she’s nice and she respects them. And Ralph, the whole time through, was on the same plane as Judy. And so it makes no sense for him to be doing this except to service the plot, and that was so transparent Yeah. And it really annoyed me too.

Craig: Yeah. Me too. You know, ultimately, it works out because, you know, they so the dolls get pissed as they should and, they start attacking him until Judy screams at them, Todd. Stop. He’s my friend. And they do stop and then Judy and Ralph sit there while the dolls have like a like a conversation.

Todd: They have like a like a powwow.

Craig: Yeah. And and we can’t understand what they’re saying, but apparently, Judy can. And she keeps saying they’re trying to decide whether you’re a grown up or you’re just this kid disguised as a grown up. Yeah. And Ralph’s like, I’ve been trying to figure that out my whole life. But, ultimately, the dolls are benevolent and let them go. Meanwhile, the dad, David, finds Rosemary’s dead body in the bed. And it that’s kind of a stupid and gross scene where the dead body somehow mysteriously, like, crawls on top of him. Like, it doesn’t even make any sense.

Clip: No.

Craig: But he thinks that Ralph did it for whatever reason. I don’t know. So he goes out looking for them and he finds them in the basement and he starts attacking Ralph, but then Punch, the doll, sticks up for Ralph and starts attacking the dad. Ultimately, there’s kind of a fight between them and it’s it’s kinda cute and funny because Punch the Doll is is cute and laughing and stuff. But eventually, David gets the better of him. Meanwhile, the the dolls have just pulled Judy and Ralph away. Like like, we’re just gonna get you out of here. And so David, defeats Punch and stomps his head in and then the old couple shows back up. And there’s this whole scene where they’re talking to him. It’s funny because he calls Hillary, you old witch, and she’s, like, oh, you figured it out. So it turns out they are witches. And the old guy says to him

Clip: Hillary and I think the bitterness people feel as adults can turn to love if they surrender to the goodwill toys provide. Some people could be saved. We give everyone a sporting chance. Or the others, like you, well, they have to stutter and play a new role in a big game.

Craig: Out of nowhere, David, we see that he’s in pain, like he’s writhing in pain, and then he transforms in a very cool practical way into punch the doll that he has Todd, destroyed. And so that’s where, you know, like, you’ve already alluded to it, but that’s where we are cemented the idea that these that’s what these people do. They’re witches and they kind of, you know, take these people in and they test them. And if you pass the test, if you’re a decent person, then you’re all Todd. And if you’re a jerk, then you get turned into a doll and you become part of their collection.

Todd: Uh-huh. And

Craig: I don’t know that’s kinda it’s kinda cool.

Todd: It is neat. And that’s where it gets a little fairy tale ish. Right? Yeah. That’s where

Craig: it’s

Todd: kind of like a like a version of Hansel and Gretel, which I in in ironic, not so ironically, the girl was reading in bed Yeah. Yeah. During the day. So

Craig: Well, and I think part of what makes it so effective is that the these older actors, the ones that play the elderly couple, they’re very good and very convincing. Yeah. And I I liked them a lot. And so they really sold, this explanation at the end.

Todd: They were the only ones to sell it. They were the only ones to sell this movie, to be honest. Yeah. And then I just think the ending is so funny, and and this is such a tongue in cheek ending. I mean, they had to do this laughing hysterically. Because then, I guess, they sort of fall asleep because in suddenly the old couple wakes up Ralph and Judy, And they’re like, oh, like like, what happened? What happened? And they’re like, well, you guys were out for a while. You were sleeping and and whatnot, and and so we woke you up. And Judy’s like, well, where is my dad and my stepmom? And the the grandpa says, oh, I’m really sorry to have to tell you this, Judy. And he pulls a note out.

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: It’s ostensibly written from them saying that they’ve left, and that they, left enough money for a plane ticket to Boston so that she can rejoin her mom.

Craig: And they’re moving to a different country and changing their names. Changing their names.

Todd: That’s right. So don’t bother looking for it.

Craig: And then and then Ralph’s like, well, what about the 2 girls that I came with? And he’s like, oh, yeah. Hold on a second. And he pulls out the release again. He’s like, PS, I took the 2 hitchhikers with me. And then Ralph’s like funny. Let me see the note and the guy just tosses it in the fire.

Todd: Oh, that’s right. And Ralph’s like, well, what about me? And he says, oh, well, they left enough money for your plane ticket

Craig: too. Yeah.

Todd: And so they just kinda have to accept that, and they leave.

Craig: The old people are like, we went out to check on your car in the night. We managed to get it out of the mud. Oh, you did? You old decrepit people. Cool. Awesome.

Todd: That’s right.

Craig: And, then when they’re when Judy and Ralph are driving away, Judy’s like, you’ll really like my mom. She’s young and pretty. Have you ever wanted a daughter?

Todd: Apparently, there was supposed to be a sequel to this. Yeah. They had they had written up where Judy and Ralph go away, and Ralph ends up marrying Judy’s mother and becomes her father. And then, they get in the mail 2 dolls that are The toymakers. Yeah. The toymakers. And that would have been kinda interesting to see where to go with that. Yeah, it’s a shame that that didn’t happen. They’ve He made plenty of Killer Doll movies since here, though. -I mean, you -Yeah. -This was just the beginning. -Yeah. -For Charles Band. And then, it has kind of an interesting cap at the end where the We see a long shot of the house and in front of the house, we see another car pull up and get stuck in the mud and this is all while the credits roll and sure enough like a mother and father pop out of the car and come around and check it. It’s just it’s just like a replay Right. Of the previous scenes. And they have 2 kids that they yank out of the car, that they’re clearly treating poorly. And we see that this is just gonna happen all over again. So, yeah.

Craig: Which is I liked I liked that. I liked that they included that. You know, it kind of adds to the mysticism of the whole thing, like, you know, this just kind of plays on a loop, you know. This is what these people do.

Todd: Yeah. Like, there’s something that draws bad parents to this house and forces them into this situation.

Craig: Well and and that’s very fairy tale too in that, you know, the the bad people get what’s coming to them and the good people live happily ever after. And I don’t know. I like that aspect of it. Really, talking about it with you, I’m appreciating it more than when I was watching it yesterday Yeah. Because it’s it’s easy to identify its flaws of which there are many. But there is something charming about it Todd, and and I can understand why I enjoyed it so much as a kid. Oh, and one thing that we left out was, when they were leaving, Judy says, oh, I wish I could say goodbye to mister Punch. And the guy, Gabriel, pulls out the punch doll who we know is his dad because and he’s even dressed in the dad’s pajamas. Mhmm. And she’s like, goodbye, mister Punch. I love you. And in the dad’s voice, he says, bye short stuff. And, like, Ralph and Judy kind of look at it weird, and then they just leave. I I remember as a kid thinking that was weird. And it’s it’s dark. You know? Like, it just hurt her dad, her father is gone and, like, damned to be in this toy forever. But he was a jerk anyway. So she’s better off. It would have been it would have been

Todd: even darker if they had handed her the doll. Yeah. Well, it’s funny like you said. I mean, you kinda wanted not like this movie, and there were times when it really felt like it was dragging. Even though it’s only, like, an hour and 15 minutes long. Right. And there’s so much that’s corny and goofy about it, but it’s got a lot of good things going. And like I said earlier, its heart was really in the right place. And it works as almost it almost works as a kid’s horror movie. It just Mhmm. Fails on a little too many levels to to be a good movie. But it’s from the same pedigree, you know, as Troll.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: And, you know, these people later on went on to make Honey I Shrunk the Kids. I mean, Troll is is better, I think, as a kid’s horror movie. Oh, yeah. But this one is not worse by too many degrees.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s got its charms. I’ll give it that. And, if you haven’t seen it, if you’re a horror enthusiast and you haven’t seen it, it’s on Amazon Prime. I’m you could probably find it on YouTube. I don’t know. It’s not like, you know, it’s some classic that people are guarding carefully. It’s I’m sure it’s widely available. And if you haven’t seen it, it’s worth checking out. It’s only an hour and 15 minutes of your time. Yeah. It’s it’s worth giving it.

Todd: And laughing at and stuff. And I will I will absolutely I I won’t watch this again, but I’ll probably watch at least one more time with with my son.

Craig: Sure. Sure. Some somewhere down the line. Yeah.

Todd: In the distant future.

Craig: Alright. Well, thanks for hanging with us for another episode of 2 Guys in a Chainsaw. If you have any comments, about this movie, if you remember it fondly or if you, know anything to you because I always screw it up. 2 guys dot redfortynet.com. Todd you go. We love hearing from you, and we appreciate you taking your time to, give us a Until next time, I’m Craig And I’m Todd. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

We varied a bit on our final assessment of this admittedly classic haunted house story, starring the incomparable Karen Black and Bette Davis. But you’ll want to listen primarily to hear Greg gush over Bette Davis.

Episode 147, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig

Todd: Craig. Happy Halloween everybody. Halloween 2018. We are stoked to be bringing you our final in our yearly Halloween series this year and today we decided to do apropos, 31. 31 is, stands for the day of Halloween and so therefore this movie by Rob Zombie which came out 2016 takes place on Halloween which makes it perfect for our Halloween episode today. Yep. I have to admit, Craig, this is the very first time I’ve ever seen a Rob Zombie movie. Isn’t that weird? That’s crazy. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. You know what? You didn’t even see the Halloween remakes or anything?

Todd: Oh, you’re right. Okay. Never mind. I did see the the Halloween remake. I saw the first Oh, okay. Halloween remake and Gotcha. But I don’t I mean, that’s not typical of his films, is it?

Craig: I don’t know. I mean, it’s definitely got some of his typical stuff. I mean, I guess, first and foremost that Sherry Moon Zombie is in it because she’s in all of his movies. That’s his wife. Right? Yeah. It’s his wife and and she’s in I don’t know. I think I’ve seen all of his movies. No. That’s a lie because I haven’t seen Lords of Salem, but she, yeah. She he he always casts her, which is kinda cute and sweet and romantic.

Todd: Yeah. Yes. I mean, you you do what you wanna do when you’re making the movie. Right? Right. But, you know, I mean, is she a better actress in some of the other movies? I don’t remember her in Halloween.

Craig: No. Not really. She played she played Michael Myers’ mom in, the in both in in both his Halloween movies. It’s funny, you know, every time I talk to anybody about, Rob Zombie’s movies, I always bring up the fact that he always casts his wife, and she’s not gonna win any awards for her acting. She’s a beautiful woman. She’s she’s gorgeous, and I understand. And and, like, I think it’s really cute. They’ve been together for a super long time, and they’ve been married for a long time, and, I think it’s sweet that he always, cast her. She’s she’s not an amazing actress and she’s always a little bit the same in all of the movies that he cast her in, but I don’t know. I get it. She’s she’s got a charm about her, and and I actually like her. Again, she’s not she’s not gonna win any awards, I don’t think. But No. She she does she she does a good job.

Todd: I always felt, like, right before every shot with her, it’s like, you could just tell that the director was like, okay. Look scared in 3, 2, 1.

Clip: You’re doing

Todd: great, honey. You’re doing just fine.

Craig: Oh, she holds her own. She’s not terrible.

Todd: No. She’s not horrible.

Craig: We we can no. We can joke, but she’s she’s really not a bad actress. She’s a fine actress, and, I liked her. I I liked her in this movie. I I was I was rooting for

Todd: her. Yeah. There’s much worse acting in this movie than hers. I didn’t think most of the acting in this movie was was very good with the exception of the people where it counted. Really impressed to see, Malcolm McDowell in this

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: As playing father murder,

Craig: which Well, and that’s that’s kind of something else that I like about Rob Zombie, like, he has an ensemble and and he draws people in and once he’s got them in, he uses them. And, Malcolm McDowell played the Loomis role in the Halloween remakes, and zombie got him back for this and he’s a very fine respectable actor and and he plays kind of a a cameo role in this movie, really. I mean, I I can only imagine that he didn’t have to shoot much. Yeah. You know?

Todd: They they were to work for this guy.

Craig: And and, you know, he doesn’t have a whole lot to do, but he’s got a commanding presence, and and he’s good.

Clip: Tonight, we are going to play 31. What is 31, pray teller? Well, 31 is war. And as the old saying goes, war is hell.

Craig: It kinda gives, zombies movies, I don’t know. It’s not like a theater feel, but it’s that kind of community where you you work with people and you like them and, so you continue to work with them, and and I I like that. I think it’s neat.

Todd: Kind of like Christopher Guest and those movies that he always puts together. Except those are more in the comedy role. And and then of course we had, we had Meg Foster in this and I was surprised to see her there too. Is she in his other films as well?

Craig: She did I haven’t seen Lords of Salem, but she did Lords of Salem, and she’s cool. We’ve talked about her before. She was in Jeepers Creepers 3, which was, I don’t know, kind of a crap movie, I thought.

Todd: But Yeah.

Craig: And we also talked about she was in They Live, and and back in her heyday, back in the seventies eighties, she was just stunningly gorgeous. And and now she, you know, she’s she’s older. Yeah. She’s older and she’s a little weathered, but I found her endearing, in this movie. I liked her. I was rooting for her. Spoiler alert, she doesn’t make it.

Todd: Not many people do. No.

Craig: And I I was kind of bummed, you know, because she was cool. And and the thing that I like about her in this movie is that it centers around this troop of carnies really. They’re rough around the edges, but they’re like a family and they’ve got each other’s backs, and she’s kind of the mother figure in this little ragtag group, and I liked her. I thought she did a good job. She looks she looks good. I mean, she looks her age which is kind of different for women in Hollywood these days, but

Todd: Imagine Carney is a little rough around the edges, you know? Right. Figure.

Clip: Well, and

Craig: that’s the other thing that’s the other thing about Rob Zombie’s movies. They’re gritty, and and it’s not about Hollywood glamour, you know. He’s not just casting a bunch of gorgeous 20 somethings in his movies. He’s casting people that, you know, I don’t know, they’re they’re not necessarily people that I would hang out with, but, you know, they’re they’re raw, gritty characters. And Yeah. And that’s kinda nice, you know. It’s a it’s a nice difference from your your standard pretty twenty somethings that are getting knocked off, you know. These are interesting characters.

Todd: I was getting shades of, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Totally. And especially, you know, the the movies shot in almost entirely in sepia tones. When it’s daytime anyway. And when it’s nighttime, it’s all just blues, blues and and and that’s about it. So he has a definite style style to his film. And I that must be something that carries through the other movies as well. Right? I’ve I’ve seen stills and things for the Devil’s Rejects and whatnot. And it seems to be probably very much a similar style.

Craig: Yeah. I forgot that the Devil’s Rejects was a a Halloween movie too. And if I had remembered that, I probably would have suggested that knowing that you hadn’t seen, many or any of his movies. Mhmm. Maybe we’ll get around to it someday. It’s wild. It’s crazy. It’s funny, you know, I hadn’t seen this, and that’s why I wanted to do it. This was my choice. I wanted to do this because I hadn’t seen it and I’d been really interested. And watching it, like, I was I was into it. It was good. It was scary. It was gritty. I don’t know. It’s scary. I wasn’t, like, scared. I wasn’t, like, peeing my pants or anything, but it was brutal. And, I don’t know. I I assume you’ve seen this movie. You know, when I was talking about it to my partner last night, he would have hated it as your wife would have.

Clip: I know.

Todd: Yeah. No way she is.

Craig: Yeah. But I told him, they they could have titled this The Running Man 2. Yeah. And it would have been a totally apropos title because that’s what it is. It’s the exact same premise, really.

Todd: I was thinking the exact same thing. It’s basically these carnies without a carnival who are driving down the road and they run into some stuff set up in the middle of the road at night which caught catches them off guard. And once they get out of the truck, they get them the they get ambushed. And as soon as they wake up, they’re in what I guess, and you know, I had to read the plot synopsis later to get the names of all these people and all these places because they’re not even referenced or or talked about in the movie.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: Charlie, she’s the cherry moon. And then you have a guy named Roscoe Pepper who’s who’s Jeff Phillips, he’s the bearded guy. You have a guy named Panda, who’s, one of the 2 black guys we have here. We have Panda and we have LaVonne Wally. He’s played by a guy named Kevin Jackson. I think he’s he’s affecting, like, a Jamaican accent.

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: But it doesn’t come off. I don’t know. It sounds

Craig: It was funny because it it’s really thick in the beginning in the opening scenes. And those opening scenes, they’re driving around in their van, like, their carny van. And that was very Texas chainsaw to me. Just all of these people, you know, they’re they’re smoking weed and they’re having fun and they’re joking around and they’ve got a couple of girls on the bus, with them who are, you know, just groupies or whatever and, it’s just kind of establishing who they are and and that totally gave me Texas chainsaw vibe. Yes. And then they put they pull up to this gas station. Mhmm. Of course, you know, how many movies have we watched where you pull up to this gas

Todd: station in the

Craig: middle of nowhere. Right? And, while they’re there, Roscoe is is filling up the van. This lady pops up and and kind of flirts with them a little bit. Like, it seems like she wants to get a ride with them or whatever. But it’s E. G. Daily. And do you recognize her? Like, I love EG Daily. No.

Todd: I don’t recognize her. What she what what

Craig: Oh my god. You would recognize her from a million things. She the first thing that I know her from is Pee wee’s Big Adventure. She was the girl that had a crush on Pee wee and that he was always, like, pushing away.

Todd: Oh my gosh. No way.

Craig: Yes. Yes. And Wow. She’s like she’s like the one who’s always like, hey, Pee wee. You wanna go to the drive in? Like, okay. So that’s her. And she was also, on Friends. She played, Phoebe’s old, singing partner and she stole smelly cat from Phoebe, like and she’s a singer. She she’s been in a million things.

Todd: She was in loverboy and Dutch and bad dreams. Oh, my word.

Craig: Yes. Oh, I just she’s great. I I love her and she shows up and she flirts a little bit. And I knew she was in this, so I was watching for her and and Todd be fair, I knew what her role was. So when she showed up and it was funny, you know, it’s it’s just a very simple scene where she’s kind of flirting with him, but she keeps talking about, like, she keeps saying,

Clip: Y’all headed up Jack some way, go hunting? No. We’re just plowing straight on through the Harleyville. Planning on doing some hunting? No. Why are you so concerned with me going hunting? Oh, just wondering. You got that domineering Craig, black, hunter vibe. Yeah. It just comes natural.

Craig: And and and it’s because she’s fishing. She wants to know if they have weapons Mhmm. On board, and they don’t. And then she disappears, and then she shows up later. But it it in the grand scheme of things, it makes sense. You know, she’s she’s scouting these guys out to make sure that they don’t have guns. After they leave the gas station and they’re driving down the road and they come across these, It it looks like scarecrows, but when they get out and they look at them, the Jamaican guy is like, no, man. It’s voodoo.

Todd: Dude, his accent is horrible in this movie. It is absolutely as good as mine. Laugh. I feel like I’m watching a cartoon whenever he talks. Oh my gosh.

Clip: Hey, look a boy. This monster break out here in the ass and in no way, you’re gonna get your Todd ass out there, and you’re gonna push with the bumper up your ass.

Todd: True Rastafarian here. I actually I think the acting was pretty poor with most of the people who get killed off pretty early on. The driver of the van and all that, the 2 girls that were in there were just terrible actresses. Terrible. I don’t mean to help them, but it was just I I I’ll have to say at the beginning of the movie, I wasn’t really getting into it because I found that so distracting. And I also found the writing to be kinda lame. And and maybe in the hands of a different director or maybe in the hands of different actors and actresses, it would have come across a little better. But I felt like all of their little banter and everything that they did back and forth in the van seemed really for seemed really written. It seemed really written and really forced to me. I don’t know.

Craig: I imagine that they had a skeleton of what they wanted to do and what they were doing. But I I have a feeling that much of it was improvised. Like, they they sing these made up songs in the beginning. You know, it’s it’s road trippy and they’re stoned and they’re, you know, having fun or whatever. I know that Cherry Moon Zombie and the guy who plays, whatever, panda or whoever the Jamaican guy is, they, you know, they make up these songs, and I know that they made them up themselves. I read that. So I have a feeling that some of it was probably, ad libs.

Clip: So what exactly is the name of the show of yours? Okay. Dig this. Professor Gouldini’s mad gorilla monster show. Oh, I’d go see that show. The name’s Madison Gray, but you’re still minus 1 jungle girl. Oh, I could be a jungle girl. I took a acting class before I left high school.

Todd: Yeah. She shut the fuck up for 2 seconds.

Clip: That’s where Charlie girl comes from.

Craig: Charlie hardly looks like

Clip: the wild woman before now. And besides, you know that she is my main hustle in this early show. Okay. We dumped the whole Barnio shit. Okay? We work a new angle. The yokels have burnt out on that yarn 10 years ago. What’s a yokel? Angle. The yokels have burnt out on that yarn 10 years ago. What’s a yokel?

Craig: Frankly, it really didn’t bother me. Yeah. The 2 girls who just serve the purpose of kind of being annoying and showing that these guys have groupies or whatever

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: They’re the first to go. You know, as soon as they come across these figures in the road and they get out to try to move them away, they get attacked. And, the 2 girls get killed and and the the main core group of people gets hijacked, kidnapped I guess, and they take them into gosh, I couldn’t tell. Was it like an old church? It’s what it looked like.

Todd: It was either a church or a theater. Yeah. It was hard to tell. Well, some churches look like theaters. It’s, you know, it’s a really old old looking, you know, renaissance style kind of place and goth. Not not really got a little gothic, I guess. But, that’s when Malcolm McDowell pops out. Right. He’s up on a balcony above them, and he’s in full regalia. He’s got a big tall poofy powdered wig. They all look like, you know, they’re from, they’re all about to lose their heads in the French Revolution,

Craig: Right. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. Heavy bourgeois looking French. It’s very odd. You know, you can tell that I think these decisions were clearly made. I don’t know, man. Not necessarily in service to the story, but just to give you some something cool. Like, it’s trying to be cool. It’s trying to be different. It’s trying to be so out there in all of these characters. And I have to say that’s the second thing that kinda bothered me about this movie. I felt overall this movie was trying really too hard to be cool that sometimes it came across as rather silly.

Craig: Yeah. I think that may be zombie style.

Todd: Is that the way he is?

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. And I don’t know that it’s necessarily him trying to be cool, but, yeah, he he he’s big on the visuals, and and that’s fine. I mean, I I’d rather see something interesting than something boring. It was neat to see them in those. The French Revolution is exactly what it looks like. You know, they’re in the powdered wigs and the white, makeup, and it’s it’s him. It’s Malcolm McDowell McDowell and then several older ladies. And what it turns out to be is that they are these super wealthy people who every year they set up this game where they kidnap a bunch of people, throw them in this old warehouse factory. I go. Something dark.

Todd: It’s like, it’s like the boiler room in Nightmare on Elm Street. Now it’s like a big, it’s almost like a big oil refinery. I got the sense, at least from the exteriors, you know, you just get all these pipes going everywhere and huge tanks and whatnot. And then the inside is all very industrial feeling. Yes. Tunnels and and and more pipes.

Craig: Steam coming out of pipes. Right. That kind of deal. It it’s basically a stay alive for 12 hours contest and they have all of these goons who they refer to as the heads who they send in to try to kill them and there’s oh, gosh. I don’t even know who all the heads are. There’s the first one is sick head, and he’s played by a little person, named Poncho Moller. He was my favorite of all the heads. He was hilarious. I agree. He completely agree. He was funny. He was funny, but he was also menacing. Like, I was scared of him and he’s like he’s like a Nazi, like he’s got a big swastika. They’re they’re all painted. All these heads are like clowns, and he’s got a big swastika on his chest and That’s the breakdown of the movie is that they release these heads on these people and the people either, you know, it’s fight to the death, basically. Mhmm. And that’s why it’s so much like the running man. I liked the movie overall. I really did. But the thing that bothered me about the movie was they would be pitted against these various villains, but the villains would toy with them so much that I was, like, really, like, just freaking kill them, like Mhmm. And there would seriously be sometimes when the villain would appear and be, like, I’m so scary. Okay. Literally, like, alright. Go run around for 20 minutes.

Clip: Exactly. I’m

Craig: gonna find you. Exactly.

Todd: Especially toward the end, it gets kinda ridiculous. He just pops in like the last guy pops in and says something and like, all right, I’m gonna let you guys like hang for a while and just walk out and walk around for a little bit. And that begs the question too with these people. I’m sorry, Craig. I didn’t like this movie.

Craig: I’m okay. I didn’t make it.

Todd: I shouldn’t apologize for disagreeing with you. Heaven knows we do plenty of that. But True. No. I just the whole premise to me, it seemed kind of dumb in a way that, like I said, I think it was trying so hard to be cool, but it didn’t really have itself anchored in a strong foundation of backstory. I had all these questions. I’m, like, okay. So these people, okay, I can get behind. It’s Halloween, so they’ll dress up in these French wigs or whatever, and they’ll set these people loose. And as soon as they tell these people what’s going on, these people get knocked out. And they all wake up in different areas of this complex. Far flung areas of this complex. Yeah. And so I’m asking myself from the very beginning, are there like hidden cameras around here? How are these 3 people who are running this game getting off on it? You know? How are they witnessing and seeing what’s going on? Everything we see is just them in this this this big theater place, which, you know, that’s the only place we ever see them. We never see them looking at video cameras. We never see any sense of their monitors or anything in there. Plus, this is 1976. Yeah. We had video in 1976, but it wasn’t that sophisticated. Todd know, the cameras would have been big. They would have been obvious. They would have been around and maybe in black and white and what not. These kind of closed circuit systems. I just I just couldn’t understand how these people would be able to watch all of this play out. At least the movie never showed us how these people would watch all this be played out. Totally true. You know, they they run around, and there’s all this stuff that happens in these little passageways and all these places. And like you said, they go and they toy with them, and then they let them run around some more. They come and toy with them and then let them run around some more. And then Todd be completely honest, the way that these people die, like the villains is pretty let down. I mean, every single one of them just does something stupid like they’re not looking behind them. Or they charge in on one guy when there’s another person standing there. Yeah. And so it’s it’s little anticlimactic when they get it. You know, whereas like in the running man, like each of these people, they have their strengths and their their stick, you know, and and it’s the electric electricity guy, you know, he comes after you with electricity and that ends up kind of being his downfall, like somebody throws a pipe at him or something. And I don’t remember exactly how it goes, but, you know, short circuits him out and he falls. And I was kind of hoping that each of these people would kind of get it in the way that they got it. And just the chainsaw people do. The second group of people come along are 2 2 clowns. Right? Well, they’re all clowns. But these are 2 Yeah.

Craig: They’re all clowns. Yeah.

Todd: They’re called they’re called schizo head, psycho head. And actually, they were fun to watch. But they come in in this weird scene. And again, like I said, I I feel like, oh my gosh, man. I was just kinda trying too hard. There’s so much like sexual innuendo in here. Yeah. Every time these guys come in, there’s either like somebody banging somebody or they’re like making all these sexual references to people or they’re teasing people in these sexual ways. And then this moment, you know, they’re walking down this passageway and it’s got this big, like, women’s legs painted across the sides. And then the entryway is like her vagina. And they walked in and there they are. It’s so over. I mean,

Craig: it’s like it’s like a club or, like, it looks like it’s set up to be like a club or whatever, and it’s called the wet kitty. Yeah.

Todd: It’s funny. And, you know, when that’s a shtick in and of itself, when it’s like in, from Dust till Dawn, you know, Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino kind of do this, but they do it every now and then. It’s not like the it’s constantly revisited time and time again through this movie where it kinda kinda get old to me, you know. Again, it felt like it was trying too hard to be shocking in this way, that by the time the 4th guy gets called in because he’s apparently the only guy who can finish them off. He’s like banging some girl, you know, like that’s the scene that we get with her. I mean, I’m not opposed to any of this. I know I I get it. They’re supposed to be nasty people and blah blah blah. And maybe they’re all kind of obsessed with sex, but it’s just like every other thing is like this. And it got old. Yeah. It’s got so old that it just felt to me like they were just trying too hard.

Clip: You know what I’m talking about?

Craig: I get what you’re saying. I’m glad that you brought up Robert Rodriguez because I feel like his style is somewhat similar, not the same, but somewhat similar.

Todd: Yeah. It was more sophisticated Todd.

Craig: Well, they’re they’re they’re going for gritty, and I and I think that they are going for, this is a side of society, for lack of a better word, that’s not represented in film. And and they are, you know, they’re they’re carnies, you know, they’re they’re rough people. So the sexual innuendo the scene that you were talking about with Doomhead, banging the girl. I mean, it was it was certainly gratuitous, and like he’s hardcore banging this girl while they’re watching Nosferatu, like he’s getting off on that. Okay. Whatever. And yeah, I mean that that seems like it’s for shock value, but some of the other sexual innuendo, it it’s verbal, you know, like there it’s thrown around like insults and like taunting and not that anybody that I know is really like that, but something that I appreciated was that it was indiscriminate. Like, they it wasn’t just misogynistic, like it was they were just throwing it around all over the place. Like, at one point, one of the scary people is coming at Roscoe. It’s Doomhead at the end. And for no apparent reason, he starts, Doomhead starts taking off his shirt, like, before he’s gonna kill this guy. And the guy is like, are you trying to kill me or fuck me? And and, and that wasn’t the only time that there was that kind of banter between not just male and female characters, but between male characters Todd. And it it made it so Todd me that it wasn’t so much like sexual innuendo or or sexual banter, but just vulgar, you know, just they were throwing vulgarities at each other indiscriminately. And it’s not like I was like, oh, yeah. Good one. But I at least appreciated that it was indiscriminate. They could have gone to a darker place with the women and I’m glad they didn’t. And in fact, Sherry Moon Zombie and Meg Foster totally hold their own, you know. And if if anything, they turn out to be tougher than the guys and they last longer than most of the guys. And I liked that.

Todd: That’s true. I I just think like like by the time it got to doom head, right, and he gets the phone call and he’s being all tough like, oh, I’ve I’ve gotta get this. This is business. She’s like, don’t you stop. He’s like, I’m gonna get it. He gets it. Right? She’s kind of leaves her there and he’s like, I gotta go. And it’s like that classic scene. Right? Oh, he’s got to leave the woman because what he his his work is way more important than sex. And then as he’s leaving, they have this exchange which it just seems so Hollywood. You know, I could predict every line he was saying

Craig: to her.

Todd: You know?

Clip: Yeah. Well, what the am I supposed to do? Well, you can stick your fingers in your dripping twat and finish yourself off or get the out. For anything, my dear, I don’t give a damn.

Craig: You know, pretty full of yourself. Nobody messes with mister big shot. Well, you.

Clip: Bitch, when you run a perfect game day after day, ain’t luck, cunt. Skill.

Todd: Can I

Clip: at least take a shower before I go? Negative. Take that stinking ass and hit the bricks.

Todd: You know, it’s just, it is just felt it’s well, not just nasty, but it just, I it was so predictable and it felt so written that, okay, we’re supposed Todd you’re supposed to be telling me how tough this guy is, but it’s so cliche that the way you’re doing it, there’s nothing new there.

Craig: Well, you’re right. I agree with you on that and it and it is nasty because basically, they call in all these people and this was you have kind of already alluded to it, but it’s a little anticlimactic and that they keep bringing in these new people and they’re supposed to be scary and like the way that they’re introduced is usually scary and then when they actually face off with our heroes for lack of a better word, like they’re just people and it really isn’t all that difficult for these people to fight back and dispatch them. Like it usually takes a couple of minutes. Yeah. It’s not even hard.

Todd: Because it’s always like it’s like 4 or 5 people on 1 or, you know, 4 or 5 people on 2. I mean, at some point, it’s easier to get the jump on them because they’re facing the opposite direction. Somebody else comes up from behind, you know, and they’re sloppy. They they just allow that to happen, you know.

Craig: And they the characters even talk about that at some point, like, they have a conversation where one of them wants to just find a place and barricade themselves in and just hold it down because it’s all based on time. It’s 12 hours. They’ve got to survive these 12 hours. But there’s at that point, there’s 4 of them left and they vote and Sherry Moon Zombie is the last vote and she says, let’s find these MFers and slit their throats. And so that’s what they do. They just stick together and they kinda wait these peep wait until these people show up or they kinda, you know, actively pursue them, whatever, and then they fight them as a group and they win most of the time. And there there are there are stupid contrivances where they split them up Yes. Sometimes. And it’s dumb, like, just out of nowhere a cage door will fall and so, like, oh, no. We’re split up.

Todd: And we’re in a cage.

Craig: Yeah. Ultimately, it doesn’t amount Todd any I mean, they just fight these people and and they win. Where I was going to get back to your criticism of the nastiness, you were talking about how Doomhead is banging that girl or whatever and then he has to go to work and then eventually he corners Venus. He, like, he grabs her by the throat and puts her up against the wall and then he sticks his hands down his pants and holds his fingers up to her nose. It’s like, do you smell that? Like, just nasty stuff like that. It is nasty and Rob Zombie is not afraid to go for the nasty. It’s really not my cup of tea, but I feel like he’s going for gritty and that’s fine. I’m not gonna be critical of it. I get it. I just feel like

Todd: and I’m not I’m not opposed to that either. And, you know, far be it for me. But but it’s just if if if it just Todd a little more judiciously used, it would have been more effective when it’s sort of in your face overused all that. I would say overused in this movie. Yeah. It just seems like he’s trying a little too hard to be nasty. You know, it’s Yeah. Todd doesn’t even come in at spots where it makes sense or it’s clever, you know, or it’s or it’s funny or whatnot. It just it’s just there. And after a while, I feel like I’m watching a written story, you know, and not real people. That’s just that that’s that’s why it really bothered me. Not not not the content, just the amount of it and the way it was all delivered.

Craig: Yeah. It’s really weird. You know, this movie, I I wanted to see it. I’ve seen most of Rob Zombie’s other movies, and the reason that I wanted to see this one and and really ultimately save it for our, you know, final Halloween episode is because I do appreciate that zombie, kind of throws back to those gritty movies of the seventies. He’s got a very seventies feel. It’s very Texas Chainsaw Massacre. You know, it it’s For sure. It’s it’s gritty. It’s it’s dark. It’s violent. And some of his other movies like, House of a 1000 Corpses, it’s not even, you know, on the list of my favorite movies, but it really unsettled me. Like, it was so violent and so gratuitous that it, you know, it almost kinda made me sick, like and I don’t wanna say in a good way, but Mhmm. It was effective in in what it did, and I and I appreciated that. And, then the sequel to that, The Devil’s Rejects was it amped it up even more like it was just even more and there’s violence and rape and and just all this terrible stuff that you see. And so going into this one, I had read that Rob Zombie had said this was his most brutal movie to date and after I watched it, I was, like, has Rob Zombie seen his other movies? Because

Todd: I didn’t think it was that brutal.

Craig: It wasn’t really and I just didn’t think that it was gosh, I hate to be critical because I like the guy and I think that he’s a cool voice in the world of horror, but I just didn’t think that it was as good as some of his other efforts.

Todd: It’s not his best work.

Craig: No. And he wrote it and he directed it. It was crowdfunded, like, I feel like it was funded by, like, Kickstarter or something.

Todd: Yeah. Two times. Like, he had he had to go back and raise more money or something.

Craig: Yeah. And and the dude lied, like like, he people were clamoring for another sequel to, House of a 1000 Corpses, which I think we’re getting. I think that’s coming soon, even even though they all died or supposedly died at the end of The Devil’s Rejects. I think that we’re getting in another one of those. But he lied and said that the studio owned all the rights to those characters, and then the studio was, like, no, dude. You own the rights. Do whatever you want. But, Like, he he clearly wanted to make this movie and, you know, on its own, I thought it was fine. I know you didn’t like it and that’s fine. I didn’t think it was great. I thought it was alright, but just in comparison even to his Halloween remakes which are very much, I I don’t know, like, people in the horror community, you know, I read all these blogs and stuff. Yeah. People really come down on those remakes. I watched them. I thought they were good. I thought, you know, if we’re talking about a franchise that now has, like, 10 movies. I was I appreciated that he at least, you know, took it in a different direction and took it dark and I I like that. Just in comparison to his body of work, I Todd didn’t think this one really stood up and I and I was a little disappointed.

Todd: It just didn’t bring anything new to the game, you know. It it I don’t think it was very original. We kinda went through some of it already. Okay. A group of wealthy people wanna get, you know, some people together.

Clip: Right.

Todd: Sic some other people on them to kill. Okay. Most dangerous game.

Craig: So the purge. Right?

Todd: The purge, most dangerous game, you know, that’s been around forever. Mhmm. So these people get together. Right? And then all these, like, running man, you said, all these different villains are are released on them. Then these villains, they kind of are different. Like, 2 of them are clowns with chainsaws. 1 of them is that Nazi clown guy. The other guy they end up calling in is like a big jerky. Oh, Oh, and then there’s a tall guy and a and the short woman who’s the woman that we saw earlier in the gas station. Yeah.

Clip: And they

Craig: Oh, god. And and I have Todd, like, when they brought in those 2, it was, I think, death head. Right? And

Todd: Death head and sex.

Craig: And sex head. And and it was e g daily doing her very best Harley Quinn. Yes. And and, literally, I love her and I was so excited to see her and I I enjoyed watching her, but that the whole thing, you know, they they hype up. Oh, we’re gonna send in death head and sex head and death head is like our, you know, our last resort because he’s definitely gonna get things done. And then they come in and they, you know, he’s this huge guy and she’s this tiny girl and the the visual of them together is is you kind of a striking visual. But then they split up and then they just both get killed like Yeah. Like it’s just over.

Todd: They’re the weakest. They’re the weakest of, actually, honestly, the minute they were both walking down that passage, I was like, okay. This isn’t gonna last long. No. Like, they’re gonna have to pull out some special, like, electricity from their fingertips or something to impress me. He just had a bat with some spikes on it, and she was just dancing around.

Craig: Yeah. And singing like they and she And they’re singing

Todd: a German song or something like that.

Clip: Todd on wood. Stock on wood. Stock on wood. State on wood.

Todd: Oh my gosh. Come on. We already had the Nazi guy earlier. Are we really gonna go back in and, oh, German is scary. Right? It wasn’t enough. And, yeah, they get killed so quickly. She leaps on what’s his name, thinking that he’s more incapacitated, and he’s not. And so he just, like, stabs her a bunch of Todd, and she’s dead. And then as soon as he sees her, you know, dead, he just stands there and flips out while somebody else comes up from behind him and, like, hits him several times with the bit. Oh, it it was, that was the first time that Carly killed somebody. Right? Charlie killed somebody. Right?

Craig: Maybe. I don’t know. No. She she killed somebody earlier too. I liked that about her, and I liked it about both of the women characters that I saw or read that Sherry Moon Zombie was interviewed about this and and she talked about how this girl that she’s playing, Charlie, is just a victim in this whole thing, but it just goes to show that when you are put in a life or death situation even normal people can resort to their most primal survival instincts And I liked that, you know, they are tough, especially the 2 ladies. They are they’re tough. And Nick Foster kicks ass in this movie. I I wanna give her

Todd: She does.

Craig: Props because I really liked her. In fact, she may have been my favorite part about the movie.

Todd: But, you know, it’s it’s not a new concept. I mean, you know

Craig: No. And No. The final girl? No. It’s not

Todd: a Final girl. And also, like, you know, The Hills Have Eyes. I’m thinking, you know, that’s kind of the whole point of that film. But even if you compare the 2, you know, say The Hills Have Eyes or even something like Straw Dogs, If you’ve ever seen that with Dustin Hoffman, like these are like normal sort of suburban everyday people who are put in these extraordinary situations and suddenly have to become as savage as the people attacking them in order to defend themselves. But in this case, they’re presented as kind of not normal everyday people. They’re rough. You know, they’re already kind of everybody, and this is rough around the edges. So even that kind of falls a little flat for me.

Craig: I guess.

Todd: I didn’t fall in love with any of these characters, you know, in the very beginning. So when they when these rough people are get coming across even rougher people, not that they were presented as bad people in the beginning, it just it didn’t hold a lot of emotional pathos for me as much as it would have been, you know, otherwise, like I said. Like, something like Saw, you know, where you get these poor folks who are, yeah, maybe they did something awful, but they certainly didn’t deserve their treatment,

Craig: you know, pulled

Todd: out of some suburban neighborhood or their office building and then put in this horrendous trap sort of situation, this grimy nasty dungeon and, it’s not the same.

Craig: Well, I’m gonna disagree with you just a little bit there because these people are presented as being imperfect and rough and not opposed to taking advantage of people and and that kind of stuff, but I actually did feel for them when they all got thrown in there. What I liked about it, especially there are some scenes early I don’t know. I mean, they don’t even really get thrown in there until, like, a half an hour into the movie. But then once they do, one guy gets killed and they’re sad about it. Okay. Fine. But they’re all separated, but they come back together very quickly. And I I really did get a sense of these people being like family and Yes. They they wanted desperately not just to protect themselves, but to protect one another.

Todd: Very good point.

Craig: And they were really upset when one of them would fall and you know, like the first guy that I I think it’s Levon is the first one that gets killed. And they sit around and cry and and Panda is like, that guy was my very best friend. And and, like, I I felt it, you know. I felt like they were like this kind of thrown together family and they did care about each other. And I very much got the sense that Venus, you know, was the was the mother of the group and she was looking out for all of them and that was that kind of ended up being her demise was because she woke up like she took like a 5 minute nap or whatever and she wakes up and Charlie is gone and, she she scolds, Roscoe, I can’t believe you let her go, and she goes out looking for her and then when Doomhead finds her, she says, please please just let them live. She doesn’t beg for her own life, she begs for their lives and and I bought that. I I thought that they did a good job with that. And so, you know, there are things that I do appreciate appreciate about it. There I do wanna say though that there were other things about the movie that drove me absolutely crazy because they made absolutely no sense. Like the first guy that dies is Levon, I think. And then literally, like, a minute later, the aristocrats or whatever you wanna call them set up this big dinner scene for them. Yes. And and it’s beautiful. I mean, the cinematography looks fantastic for this scene.

Todd: It it kinda looks like they filmed the whole movie at a haunted house at times. Yeah.

Clip: Right?

Todd: Yeah. Everything it’s like smoky and the lights are in all the right places and things. Right. Yeah. It’s it’s gorgeous.

Craig: And they kind of have a debate about should we eat or not. And one of the guys is, like, look, you know, if we’re gonna be fighting for our lives, we have to eat or whatever. And they sit down and and some of them start eating and then Charlie’s like, wait wait Todd eating. And she wipes the table clean and underneath it is the guy that just died as though they’ve been fed this guy who we just saw die a minute ago. Like Yeah. How did that happen?

Todd: How did they cook and eat of this thing?

Craig: And there Yeah.

Todd: I agree.

Craig: When when sex head, EG Daily’s character is fighting, Roscoe, she stabs him multiple times. Now Todd be fair, there was a strobe effect going on and so it was difficult to see exactly what was going on. But there were also sound effects and it sounded to me like she stabbed him like up under his ribs like 4 or 5 times at least and I wrote in my notes, okay, so sex had killed Roscoe. And then in the next scene, he’s there and beat up, but pretty much

Todd: okay. Around. Yeah. It wasn’t the first It wasn’t the first time. Even the Nazi guy in the beginning gets a huge whack from Charlie off the bat right across the face. And you hear this pop, and you think, okay. Like, she snapped his neck. She hit him or whatever. He’s dead. And he just brings up later, like, there’s like, nothing had happened. I thought that was odd. In fact, this sort of thing was happening so much in this movie that I really thought we were gonna get some twist where

Craig: there was some It was a dream or something. Yeah. Right.

Todd: Yeah. And there was even a dream bit in there, which I saw was I saw coming a mile away.

Craig: It was

Clip: a dream,

Todd: but I was like, please, God, let this not be a dream. Let this not be a dream because then this movie is gonna finally start getting interesting for me. It’s when Meg, falls, Meg Foster’s character, Venus, falls asleep, and she dreams that the clowns that they had just killed pretty, pretty brutally. One of them had his head taken off or there.

Clip: How did you really think cutting my hair off

Craig: was gonna keep me down? Oh, I got that mother so back on the panto, and

Todd: I am feeling grooving.

Craig: Hey, super a weak human around here. And you learned shit yet?

Todd: I thought, oh, wouldn’t that be interesting if this movie went there? Because that would totally throw me for a loop. Yeah. But no, of course, it was indeed a dream, which I suspected. And, yeah. So that you’re right. It happens so much to both sides. Yeah. It’s unbelievable. You know, the other thing I found was so crazy was the fact that they were continuing, like you said earlier, that they decide, well, we’re just gonna keep going. We’re gonna keep walking through this crazy death trap maze place that has been set up for this very purpose to to torture us instead of just hunkering down and waiting for them to come to me. Like, that made no sense. And, and and yeah. So there’s, like, that tacit moment where they kind of try to explain it like, well, they’re just gonna decide to go kill these guys anyway. But then there’s this moment where they go into that. They go straight into the vagina, right? They’re into that that like really done up. It looks like an indoor circus, Right. And there’s a woman who’s been strapped down or that was just from a previous, you know, victim or whatever that they find. And this whole thing is completely done up. I think it’s one of the characters. Here’s the chainsaw and he’s like, shit, they found us. Well, of course, they found you.

Craig: Right.

Todd: You know, you weren’t hiding or running from anybody. You just walked down into the area, you know, that was set up for your benefit. I mean, clearly.

Craig: Right. Right.

Todd: Just this notion that they’re it’s not really like the running man. Right? Because they’re in this game that’s all been set up. And the running man, it’s kind of free freestyle. And here, everything’s set up for their purpose. So the fact that they’re just willingly walking through and, laying themselves out, these seem to be like they would be smarter people than this.

Craig: Right. You know, but they’re not. When, Venus wakes up from her dream and Charlie has gone off on her own and and and Venus scolds Roscoe for letting her go off on her own, like, yeah, she should scold him. Like, how stupid are you? Why would you go wandering off on your own? You know that the killers are out there. Like, what what is the point? And then she find like, it’s so random and stupid. Like, she finds this little, like, contrivance out of a music box, and she’s, like Oh my gosh. Like, spinning it and playing it. I’m like, are you trying to draw attention to yourself? Like, what is wrong with you?

Todd: He was just trying to be cool again. You know? Again, it’s like, oh, you wanted to put some music box, some creepy music box sound in here. And so you made the character pick it up and play it absentmindedly. It, yeah, that annoyed me. And and then some of the lines of this movie are really dumb. Like, when Doomhead’s finally called in and, he shows up, and he’s, you know, puts on his make up. There’s this whole scene. And he tells all of the guards. So we find out there are guards there too. There’s more to this company than just that, which brings up all other kinds of questions, but I’ll just sort of let those go for now. And he tells

Clip: them Jalen, take the rest of the night off. I’ll handle it from here. Murder School, is now in session.

Todd: My god.

Craig: Really? I remember that. Really? Oh. Well, and then he’s he’s, like, the big bad. Like, he’s the last one, their last resort. And the the aristocrats are, like, well, what happens if somebody lives? And Malcolm McDowell is, like, oh, that never happens. It’ll never happen, so we don’t have to worry about it. And, you know, the whole aristocrat, all of those scenes, you know, they’re just kind of plugged in. Mhmm. They they don’t really matter whatever, but then so as it turns out, Doomhead comes in. He kills Venus. He chases Roscoe and, Charlie. And at some point, Doomhead is like, oh, and by the way, the doors to the outside are open now. Good luck. Oh, okay. And so And then walks away.

Todd: Yeah. Walks away. Go out.

Craig: And then Roscoe and Charlie, like, they find some sort of of hatch and they

Clip: open it and and she goes

Craig: down, but he can’t because he’s too injured or whatever.

Clip: He stays back and

Craig: then he gets killed. And then she ends up in this tunnel, and at the end of the tunnel, it’s not gonna be and then she ends up in this tunnel and at the end of the tunnel is broad daylight and she goes out into the broad daylight and she’s just walking around outside and she sees this house and she goes in and it’s like this abandoned house and there’s, like, this marionette theater set up in there which we’ve already seen something similar earlier at the gas the gas station or whatever. But then Doom had I mean, I liked the marionettes. That’s fun.

Todd: They were it was cute and it was appropriately creepy, but what in the world was that all about? It was like just perpetually playing in the corner of this gas station when they first showed up. Then how did it end up back in this house? Was there supposed to be some kind of weird connection here?

Craig: Probably, but I didn’t get it.

Todd: Uh-huh moment? Yeah. It was again, just, like, trying to be creepy again. I mean, the way she wanders into that room, it seems like it has a huge impact on her. Like, my god.

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: Falls to her knees, you know.

Craig: Oh. But anyway, okay. So then she’s in this abandoned house and then Doomhead shows up right behind her and he brutally punches her right in the face to the point where she’s almost unconscious and then he goes off on a big soliloquy and just as he’s about to kill her, this big alarm goes off and you hear voices over some speakers somewhere. Weapons down, 31 is over and she’s won. And Yes. And Doomhead is is super mad, like, gosh darn it. Like, oh, I was just about to kill you. Now I’m super mad and I was excited and happy. I’m, like, oh, she made it. That’s awesome. And then they show, you know, the aristocrats just taking off their wigs and washing the makeup off their faces, putting on their regular clothes and just leaving, like, okay. Happy Halloween. That was fun. But the the last thing in the movie and it made me so mad. I know. Cherry Moon Zombie Sherry Moon Zombie is walking down the road. It’s totally, you know, Texas Chainsaw Massacre style or we’ve seen it in a 1000000 movies.

Todd: She’s Sun’s coming up. She’s walking down

Craig: the empty Todd. To an absolute pulp. She’s, you know, weak and limping and bloody, and she’s walking down the road and, this van pulls up behind her and Aerosmith’s dream on is playing in the background, which was there’s great seventies music in this movie if nothing else. And then, Doomhead gets out of the van and walks up behind her And honest to Todd, I thought that he was gonna offer her a ride. Yeah.

Todd: Me too. Me too.

Clip: And that’s

Craig: what I wanted

Todd: to go there.

Craig: And that’s what I wanted to happen. Instead, she turns around and he pulls out his switch blades and opens them up and like smiles at her like I’m gonna get you and we see her like clench her fists like she’s gonna go down with a fight and and then it cuts away and that’s the end and it just cuts back to this 35 millimeter film of all of them from the beginning when they were happy and dancing and and it was fun. Mhmm. But that in it made me so mad. I was, like, not fair. You’re cheating.

Todd: She wanted to punch the screen. She won. She did.

Craig: She won.

Todd: Am I supposed to oh, god. Yeah. That was off. Actually, the whole Doom head thing was stupid. He’s played up and and we see him early in the movie. Actually, What we didn’t mention was the very first shot of the movie is him coming up and killing this priest. And he gives this long, long soliloquy into the cameras that we’re, you know, looking at him. And it’s, you know, it sets you up quite well for the movie. And you think, okay. This is the badass we’re gonna be dealing with in this movie. Well, he doesn’t come in toward the end. And he’s the one, right, that they’ve got Todd

Clip: call in

Todd: to fix everything.

Clip: And

Todd: what does he do? He ends up coming up behind Meg Foster when she’s looking through a window and stabs her in the back. Right. Okay. That didn’t take much. The second guy doesn’t even put up a fight.

Craig: No. Because he’s totally incapacitated anyway.

Todd: So he just stands there and says come at me, and he does and he stabs him and he doesn’t even move his arms. He just kills him. Right. And he comes up to her and oop, time’s up. Right. And then at the end, oh, yeah. I’m gonna kill you anyway on the on the middle of the road.

Craig: It made me mad. Like, I mean, I guess I get it. Like, he’s crazy and he’s a psycho so he’s going rogue and, like, he’s just doing it to satisfy himself or whatever, but it’s not fair. It was a game and there were rules and she won. It made me so mad.

Todd: And it just kinda makes the whole movie rather pointless, doesn’t it? I mean, what was the point? And we don’t know anything about these people. There was no I I kept thinking we’re gonna get some big reveal. We’re gonna have something here that’s gonna make me think, okay, this is cool. But no, it’s just like 3 random rich people who put on this game for who knows how long and who knows why and who knows.

Clip: Right.

Todd: They’ll probably do it again next year or whatever. They they just leave. This guy is gonna just kill this girl anyway. I mean and and I saw that Rob Zombie mentioned that, the thing that gave him the idea for this movie was that, he had read somewhere that they’re the most disappearances on the 31st October on Halloween for some reason. I don’t know if that’s actually true.

Craig: I don’t know.

Todd: But he thought he would kind of base a movie around that idea. Well, this isn’t really even that. I mean, this would account for 4 disappearances, but it’s not like like he’s making a point that this is like some huge thing that happens all over the country, you know? I don’t know. And did they have these video cameras, all the way out in the middle of the desert and in that abandoned cabin and stuff, so they could see how all this panned out? -I don’t know. -No, man. No. I thought this movie was really stupid. And, rich gratuitous for no I don’t mind gratuitous as long as there’s a point. And I felt like not only was it gratuitous for no point, but I felt like it was so gratuitous that for no point that it just seemed like it was trying really really hard. And I could see right through it and it distracted me the whole time. I just I just couldn’t get into it.

Craig: Yeah. That’s and it’s fair. It’s cool, you know, I’m not gonna try to defend it too much because, I do think that zombies other movies are better, but I guess I just still I appreciate it because I appreciate that zombie has a style that is relatively unique in the world of horror today and I’m glad that there are people like him out there who really appreciate the genre and appreciate the history of the genre and wanna bring their own voice and and style to things. I think this was a, you know, you talk about hit, you know, a hit and a miss. I I think that this was a miss for him. I didn’t hate it. I thought I I in fact, I liked it more than I thought that I would. The very first time that I watched this, I put it on, like, when I was going to sleep. And I and I woke up and somebody was getting beaten to death and I’m like, oh, Todd. It’s gonna be another one of those gruesome zombie movies. And compared to his other movies, I actually thought this one was pretty tame. It was just it was too formulaic. It was too predictable. I didn’t hate it. I I wasn’t bored. I wouldn’t watch it again, but I mean, I I guess I’m I’m glad that I saw it because it satisfied my curiosity, but, yeah, I I feel you. I I didn’t I didn’t love it.

Todd: I read that when it was first present it was presented twice and got an NC 17 from the MPAA. And finally, he made enough cuts to get it to an r. And then he promised that he would have the uncut version available on the DVD or whatever. But that was never ended up being released. Like, the DVD was released, but he never had never released an uncut version. I can see where there’s a lot of potential for lots of blood and effects and things like that. But for me, there was this was my other problem with the movie was there was so much shaky cam and so many quick cuts that I couldn’t tell what was going on half the time. Well, I And I couldn’t appreciate any any of the brutality or whatever that was going on. And I wonder if that was just because of the cuts he had to make or if that was just his style too.

Craig: Well, and I read and I I don’t know if this is accurate or not, but I read that he conceptualized this as a franchise. Like, he planned

Todd: Oh, jeez.

Craig: He planned on doing more of them, but it it it didn’t do well at all. Like, I think it made, like, $800,000 or something, at the box office. It, mister zombie, I’m sure you’re not listening, but if you are, I have mad respect for you, but I love your music. Yeah. Let this one go. It was a good effort. It was a good effort. Appreciate it, but, move on.

Todd: I highly concur. And and we’ll have to do another one of his Todd because I I would like to see another one. You you tell me which one you think is his best, and we’ll do that one

Craig: Okay.

Todd: At a later date. Alright. Well, thanks again for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. If you’re a big fan of Rob Zombie’s movies, why don’t you tell us which one we should do next time? You can find us on Facebook. You can send us a message there. You can also leave us a comment on our website. It’s 2 guys dot redfortynet.com. Just become a part of the conversation. We love hearing from you. And happy Halloween.

Clip: Happy Halloween.

Todd: We, of course, will continue the spirit of Halloween all the way through the next year. Until next time. I’m Todd, and I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Happy Halloween! We end our series with the latest from Rob Zombie, aptly titled “31”.

Episode 146, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And Craig

Todd: Craig. Happy Halloween everybody. Halloween 2018. We are stoked to be bringing you our final in our yearly Halloween series this year and today we decided to do apropos, 31. 31 is, stands for the day of Halloween and so therefore this movie by Rob Zombie which came out 2016 takes place on Halloween which makes it perfect for our Halloween episode today. Yep. I have to admit, Craig, this is the very first time I’ve ever seen a Rob Zombie movie. Isn’t that weird? That’s crazy. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. You know what? You didn’t even see the Halloween remakes or anything?

Todd: Oh, you’re right. Okay. Never mind. I did see the the Halloween remake. I saw the first Oh, okay. Halloween remake and Gotcha. But I don’t I mean, that’s not typical of his films, is it?

Craig: I don’t know. I mean, it’s definitely got some of his typical stuff. I mean, I guess, first and foremost that Sherry Moon Zombie is in it because she’s in all of his movies. That’s his wife. Right? Yeah. It’s his wife and and she’s in I don’t know. I think I’ve seen all of his movies. No. That’s a lie because I haven’t seen Lords of Salem, but she, yeah. She he he always casts her, which is kinda cute and sweet and romantic.

Todd: Yeah. Yes. I mean, you you do what you wanna do when you’re making the movie. Right? Right. But, you know, I mean, is she a better actress in some of the other movies? I don’t remember her in Halloween.

Craig: No. Not really. She played she played Michael Myers’ mom in, the in both in in both his Halloween movies. It’s funny, you know, every time I talk to anybody about, Rob Zombie’s movies, I always bring up the fact that he always casts his wife, and she’s not gonna win any awards for her acting. She’s a beautiful woman. She’s she’s gorgeous, and I understand. And and, like, I think it’s really cute. They’ve been together for a super long time, and they’ve been married for a long time, and, I think it’s sweet that he always, cast her. She’s she’s not an amazing actress and she’s always a little bit the same in all of the movies that he cast her in, but I don’t know. I get it. She’s she’s got a charm about her, and and I actually like her. Again, she’s not she’s not gonna win any awards, I don’t think. But No. She she does she she does a good job.

Todd: I always felt, like, right before every shot with her, it’s like, you could just tell that the director was like, okay. Look scared in 3, 2, 1.

Clip: You’re doing

Todd: great, honey. You’re doing just fine.

Craig: Oh, she holds her own. She’s not terrible.

Todd: No. She’s not horrible.

Craig: We we can no. We can joke, but she’s she’s really not a bad actress. She’s a fine actress, and, I liked her. I I liked her in this movie. I I was I was rooting for

Todd: her. Yeah. There’s much worse acting in this movie than hers. I didn’t think most of the acting in this movie was was very good with the exception of the people where it counted. Really impressed to see, Malcolm McDowell in this

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: As playing father murder,

Craig: which Well, and that’s that’s kind of something else that I like about Rob Zombie, like, he has an ensemble and and he draws people in and once he’s got them in, he uses them. And, Malcolm McDowell played the Loomis role in the Halloween remakes, and zombie got him back for this and he’s a very fine respectable actor and and he plays kind of a a cameo role in this movie, really. I mean, I I can only imagine that he didn’t have to shoot much. Yeah. You know?

Todd: They they were to work for this guy.

Craig: And and, you know, he doesn’t have a whole lot to do, but he’s got a commanding presence, and and he’s good.

Clip: Tonight, we are going to play 31. What is 31, pray teller? Well, 31 is war. And as the old saying goes, war is hell.

Craig: It kinda gives, zombies movies, I don’t know. It’s not like a theater feel, but it’s that kind of community where you you work with people and you like them and, so you continue to work with them, and and I I like that. I think it’s neat.

Todd: Kind of like Christopher Guest and those movies that he always puts together. Except those are more in the comedy role. And and then of course we had, we had Meg Foster in this and I was surprised to see her there too. Is she in his other films as well?

Craig: She did I haven’t seen Lords of Salem, but she did Lords of Salem, and she’s cool. We’ve talked about her before. She was in Jeepers Creepers 3, which was, I don’t know, kind of a crap movie, I thought.

Todd: But Yeah.

Craig: And we also talked about she was in They Live, and and back in her heyday, back in the seventies eighties, she was just stunningly gorgeous. And and now she, you know, she’s she’s older. Yeah. She’s older and she’s a little weathered, but I found her endearing, in this movie. I liked her. I was rooting for her. Spoiler alert, she doesn’t make it.

Todd: Not many people do. No.

Craig: And I I was kind of bummed, you know, because she was cool. And and the thing that I like about her in this movie is that it centers around this troop of carnies really. They’re rough around the edges, but they’re like a family and they’ve got each other’s backs, and she’s kind of the mother figure in this little ragtag group, and I liked her. I thought she did a good job. She looks she looks good. I mean, she looks her age which is kind of different for women in Hollywood these days, but

Todd: Imagine Carney is a little rough around the edges, you know? Right. Figure.

Clip: Well, and

Craig: that’s the other thing that’s the other thing about Rob Zombie’s movies. They’re gritty, and and it’s not about Hollywood glamour, you know. He’s not just casting a bunch of gorgeous 20 somethings in his movies. He’s casting people that, you know, I don’t know, they’re they’re not necessarily people that I would hang out with, but, you know, they’re they’re raw, gritty characters. And Yeah. And that’s kinda nice, you know. It’s a it’s a nice difference from your your standard pretty twenty somethings that are getting knocked off, you know. These are interesting characters.

Todd: I was getting shades of, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Totally. And especially, you know, the the movies shot in almost entirely in sepia tones. When it’s daytime anyway. And when it’s nighttime, it’s all just blues, blues and and and that’s about it. So he has a definite style style to his film. And I that must be something that carries through the other movies as well. Right? I’ve I’ve seen stills and things for the Devil’s Rejects and whatnot. And it seems to be probably very much a similar style.

Craig: Yeah. I forgot that the Devil’s Rejects was a a Halloween movie too. And if I had remembered that, I probably would have suggested that knowing that you hadn’t seen, many or any of his movies. Mhmm. Maybe we’ll get around to it someday. It’s wild. It’s crazy. It’s funny, you know, I hadn’t seen this, and that’s why I wanted to do it. This was my choice. I wanted to do this because I hadn’t seen it and I’d been really interested. And watching it, like, I was I was into it. It was good. It was scary. It was gritty. I don’t know. It’s scary. I wasn’t, like, scared. I wasn’t, like, peeing my pants or anything, but it was brutal. And, I don’t know. I I assume you’ve seen this movie. You know, when I was talking about it to my partner last night, he would have hated it as your wife would have.

Clip: I know.

Todd: Yeah. No way she is.

Craig: Yeah. But I told him, they they could have titled this The Running Man 2. Yeah. And it would have been a totally apropos title because that’s what it is. It’s the exact same premise, really.

Todd: I was thinking the exact same thing. It’s basically these carnies without a carnival who are driving down the road and they run into some stuff set up in the middle of the road at night which caught catches them off guard. And once they get out of the truck, they get them the they get ambushed. And as soon as they wake up, they’re in what I guess, and you know, I had to read the plot synopsis later to get the names of all these people and all these places because they’re not even referenced or or talked about in the movie.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: Charlie, she’s the cherry moon. And then you have a guy named Roscoe Pepper who’s who’s Jeff Phillips, he’s the bearded guy. You have a guy named Panda, who’s, one of the 2 black guys we have here. We have Panda and we have LaVonne Wally. He’s played by a guy named Kevin Jackson. I think he’s he’s affecting, like, a Jamaican accent.

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: But it doesn’t come off. I don’t know. It sounds

Craig: It was funny because it it’s really thick in the beginning in the opening scenes. And those opening scenes, they’re driving around in their van, like, their carny van. And that was very Texas chainsaw to me. Just all of these people, you know, they’re they’re smoking weed and they’re having fun and they’re joking around and they’ve got a couple of girls on the bus, with them who are, you know, just groupies or whatever and, it’s just kind of establishing who they are and and that totally gave me Texas chainsaw vibe. Yes. And then they put they pull up to this gas station. Mhmm. Of course, you know, how many movies have we watched where you pull up to this gas

Todd: station in the

Craig: middle of nowhere. Right? And, while they’re there, Roscoe is is filling up the van. This lady pops up and and kind of flirts with them a little bit. Like, it seems like she wants to get a ride with them or whatever. But it’s E. G. Daily. And do you recognize her? Like, I love EG Daily. No.

Todd: I don’t recognize her. What she what what

Craig: Oh my god. You would recognize her from a million things. She the first thing that I know her from is Pee wee’s Big Adventure. She was the girl that had a crush on Pee wee and that he was always, like, pushing away.

Todd: Oh my gosh. No way.

Craig: Yes. Yes. And Wow. She’s like she’s like the one who’s always like, hey, Pee wee. You wanna go to the drive in? Like, okay. So that’s her. And she was also, on Friends. She played, Phoebe’s old, singing partner and she stole smelly cat from Phoebe, like and she’s a singer. She she’s been in a million things.

Todd: She was in loverboy and Dutch and bad dreams. Oh, my word.

Craig: Yes. Oh, I just she’s great. I I love her and she shows up and she flirts a little bit. And I knew she was in this, so I was watching for her and and Todd be fair, I knew what her role was. So when she showed up and it was funny, you know, it’s it’s just a very simple scene where she’s kind of flirting with him, but she keeps talking about, like, she keeps saying,

Clip: Y’all headed up Jack some way, go hunting? No. We’re just plowing straight on through the Harleyville. Planning on doing some hunting? No. Why are you so concerned with me going hunting? Oh, just wondering. You got that domineering Craig, black, hunter vibe. Yeah. It just comes natural.

Craig: And and and it’s because she’s fishing. She wants to know if they have weapons Mhmm. On board, and they don’t. And then she disappears, and then she shows up later. But it it in the grand scheme of things, it makes sense. You know, she’s she’s scouting these guys out to make sure that they don’t have guns. After they leave the gas station and they’re driving down the road and they come across these, It it looks like scarecrows, but when they get out and they look at them, the Jamaican guy is like, no, man. It’s voodoo.

Todd: Dude, his accent is horrible in this movie. It is absolutely as good as mine. Laugh. I feel like I’m watching a cartoon whenever he talks. Oh my gosh.

Clip: Hey, look a boy. This monster break out here in the ass and in no way, you’re gonna get your Todd ass out there, and you’re gonna push with the bumper up your ass.

Todd: True Rastafarian here. I actually I think the acting was pretty poor with most of the people who get killed off pretty early on. The driver of the van and all that, the 2 girls that were in there were just terrible actresses. Terrible. I don’t mean to help them, but it was just I I I’ll have to say at the beginning of the movie, I wasn’t really getting into it because I found that so distracting. And I also found the writing to be kinda lame. And and maybe in the hands of a different director or maybe in the hands of different actors and actresses, it would have come across a little better. But I felt like all of their little banter and everything that they did back and forth in the van seemed really for seemed really written. It seemed really written and really forced to me. I don’t know.

Craig: I imagine that they had a skeleton of what they wanted to do and what they were doing. But I I have a feeling that much of it was improvised. Like, they they sing these made up songs in the beginning. You know, it’s it’s road trippy and they’re stoned and they’re, you know, having fun or whatever. I know that Cherry Moon Zombie and the guy who plays, whatever, panda or whoever the Jamaican guy is, they, you know, they make up these songs, and I know that they made them up themselves. I read that. So I have a feeling that some of it was probably, ad libs.

Clip: So what exactly is the name of the show of yours? Okay. Dig this. Professor Gouldini’s mad gorilla monster show. Oh, I’d go see that show. The name’s Madison Gray, but you’re still minus 1 jungle girl. Oh, I could be a jungle girl. I took a acting class before I left high school.

Todd: Yeah. She shut the fuck up for 2 seconds.

Clip: That’s where Charlie girl comes from.

Craig: Charlie hardly looks like

Clip: the wild woman before now. And besides, you know that she is my main hustle in this early show. Okay. We dumped the whole Barnio shit. Okay? We work a new angle. The yokels have burnt out on that yarn 10 years ago. What’s a yokel? Angle. The yokels have burnt out on that yarn 10 years ago. What’s a yokel?

Craig: Frankly, it really didn’t bother me. Yeah. The 2 girls who just serve the purpose of kind of being annoying and showing that these guys have groupies or whatever

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: They’re the first to go. You know, as soon as they come across these figures in the road and they get out to try to move them away, they get attacked. And, the 2 girls get killed and and the the main core group of people gets hijacked, kidnapped I guess, and they take them into gosh, I couldn’t tell. Was it like an old church? It’s what it looked like.

Todd: It was either a church or a theater. Yeah. It was hard to tell. Well, some churches look like theaters. It’s, you know, it’s a really old old looking, you know, renaissance style kind of place and goth. Not not really got a little gothic, I guess. But, that’s when Malcolm McDowell pops out. Right. He’s up on a balcony above them, and he’s in full regalia. He’s got a big tall poofy powdered wig. They all look like, you know, they’re from, they’re all about to lose their heads in the French Revolution,

Craig: Right. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. Heavy bourgeois looking French. It’s very odd. You know, you can tell that I think these decisions were clearly made. I don’t know, man. Not necessarily in service to the story, but just to give you some something cool. Like, it’s trying to be cool. It’s trying to be different. It’s trying to be so out there in all of these characters. And I have to say that’s the second thing that kinda bothered me about this movie. I felt overall this movie was trying really too hard to be cool that sometimes it came across as rather silly.

Craig: Yeah. I think that may be zombie style.

Todd: Is that the way he is?

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. And I don’t know that it’s necessarily him trying to be cool, but, yeah, he he he’s big on the visuals, and and that’s fine. I mean, I I’d rather see something interesting than something boring. It was neat to see them in those. The French Revolution is exactly what it looks like. You know, they’re in the powdered wigs and the white, makeup, and it’s it’s him. It’s Malcolm McDowell McDowell and then several older ladies. And what it turns out to be is that they are these super wealthy people who every year they set up this game where they kidnap a bunch of people, throw them in this old warehouse factory. I go. Something dark.

Todd: It’s like, it’s like the boiler room in Nightmare on Elm Street. Now it’s like a big, it’s almost like a big oil refinery. I got the sense, at least from the exteriors, you know, you just get all these pipes going everywhere and huge tanks and whatnot. And then the inside is all very industrial feeling. Yes. Tunnels and and and more pipes.

Craig: Steam coming out of pipes. Right. That kind of deal. It it’s basically a stay alive for 12 hours contest and they have all of these goons who they refer to as the heads who they send in to try to kill them and there’s oh, gosh. I don’t even know who all the heads are. There’s the first one is sick head, and he’s played by a little person, named Poncho Moller. He was my favorite of all the heads. He was hilarious. I agree. He completely agree. He was funny. He was funny, but he was also menacing. Like, I was scared of him and he’s like he’s like a Nazi, like he’s got a big swastika. They’re they’re all painted. All these heads are like clowns, and he’s got a big swastika on his chest and That’s the breakdown of the movie is that they release these heads on these people and the people either, you know, it’s fight to the death, basically. Mhmm. And that’s why it’s so much like the running man. I liked the movie overall. I really did. But the thing that bothered me about the movie was they would be pitted against these various villains, but the villains would toy with them so much that I was, like, really, like, just freaking kill them, like Mhmm. And there would seriously be sometimes when the villain would appear and be, like, I’m so scary. Okay. Literally, like, alright. Go run around for 20 minutes.

Clip: Exactly. I’m

Craig: gonna find you. Exactly.

Todd: Especially toward the end, it gets kinda ridiculous. He just pops in like the last guy pops in and says something and like, all right, I’m gonna let you guys like hang for a while and just walk out and walk around for a little bit. And that begs the question too with these people. I’m sorry, Craig. I didn’t like this movie.

Craig: I’m okay. I didn’t make it.

Todd: I shouldn’t apologize for disagreeing with you. Heaven knows we do plenty of that. But True. No. I just the whole premise to me, it seemed kind of dumb in a way that, like I said, I think it was trying so hard to be cool, but it didn’t really have itself anchored in a strong foundation of backstory. I had all these questions. I’m, like, okay. So these people, okay, I can get behind. It’s Halloween, so they’ll dress up in these French wigs or whatever, and they’ll set these people loose. And as soon as they tell these people what’s going on, these people get knocked out. And they all wake up in different areas of this complex. Far flung areas of this complex. Yeah. And so I’m asking myself from the very beginning, are there like hidden cameras around here? How are these 3 people who are running this game getting off on it? You know? How are they witnessing and seeing what’s going on? Everything we see is just them in this this this big theater place, which, you know, that’s the only place we ever see them. We never see them looking at video cameras. We never see any sense of their monitors or anything in there. Plus, this is 1976. Yeah. We had video in 1976, but it wasn’t that sophisticated. Todd know, the cameras would have been big. They would have been obvious. They would have been around and maybe in black and white and what not. These kind of closed circuit systems. I just I just couldn’t understand how these people would be able to watch all of this play out. At least the movie never showed us how these people would watch all this be played out. Totally true. You know, they they run around, and there’s all this stuff that happens in these little passageways and all these places. And like you said, they go and they toy with them, and then they let them run around some more. They come and toy with them and then let them run around some more. And then Todd be completely honest, the way that these people die, like the villains is pretty let down. I mean, every single one of them just does something stupid like they’re not looking behind them. Or they charge in on one guy when there’s another person standing there. Yeah. And so it’s it’s little anticlimactic when they get it. You know, whereas like in the running man, like each of these people, they have their strengths and their their stick, you know, and and it’s the electric electricity guy, you know, he comes after you with electricity and that ends up kind of being his downfall, like somebody throws a pipe at him or something. And I don’t remember exactly how it goes, but, you know, short circuits him out and he falls. And I was kind of hoping that each of these people would kind of get it in the way that they got it. And just the chainsaw people do. The second group of people come along are 2 2 clowns. Right? Well, they’re all clowns. But these are 2 Yeah.

Craig: They’re all clowns. Yeah.

Todd: They’re called they’re called schizo head, psycho head. And actually, they were fun to watch. But they come in in this weird scene. And again, like I said, I I feel like, oh my gosh, man. I was just kinda trying too hard. There’s so much like sexual innuendo in here. Yeah. Every time these guys come in, there’s either like somebody banging somebody or they’re like making all these sexual references to people or they’re teasing people in these sexual ways. And then this moment, you know, they’re walking down this passageway and it’s got this big, like, women’s legs painted across the sides. And then the entryway is like her vagina. And they walked in and there they are. It’s so over. I mean,

Craig: it’s like it’s like a club or, like, it looks like it’s set up to be like a club or whatever, and it’s called the wet kitty. Yeah.

Todd: It’s funny. And, you know, when that’s a shtick in and of itself, when it’s like in, from Dust till Dawn, you know, Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino kind of do this, but they do it every now and then. It’s not like the it’s constantly revisited time and time again through this movie where it kinda kinda get old to me, you know. Again, it felt like it was trying too hard to be shocking in this way, that by the time the 4th guy gets called in because he’s apparently the only guy who can finish them off. He’s like banging some girl, you know, like that’s the scene that we get with her. I mean, I’m not opposed to any of this. I know I I get it. They’re supposed to be nasty people and blah blah blah. And maybe they’re all kind of obsessed with sex, but it’s just like every other thing is like this. And it got old. Yeah. It’s got so old that it just felt to me like they were just trying too hard.

Clip: You know what I’m talking about?

Craig: I get what you’re saying. I’m glad that you brought up Robert Rodriguez because I feel like his style is somewhat similar, not the same, but somewhat similar.

Todd: Yeah. It was more sophisticated Todd.

Craig: Well, they’re they’re they’re going for gritty, and I and I think that they are going for, this is a side of society, for lack of a better word, that’s not represented in film. And and they are, you know, they’re they’re carnies, you know, they’re they’re rough people. So the sexual innuendo the scene that you were talking about with Doomhead, banging the girl. I mean, it was it was certainly gratuitous, and like he’s hardcore banging this girl while they’re watching Nosferatu, like he’s getting off on that. Okay. Whatever. And yeah, I mean that that seems like it’s for shock value, but some of the other sexual innuendo, it it’s verbal, you know, like there it’s thrown around like insults and like taunting and not that anybody that I know is really like that, but something that I appreciated was that it was indiscriminate. Like, they it wasn’t just misogynistic, like it was they were just throwing it around all over the place. Like, at one point, one of the scary people is coming at Roscoe. It’s Doomhead at the end. And for no apparent reason, he starts, Doomhead starts taking off his shirt, like, before he’s gonna kill this guy. And the guy is like, are you trying to kill me or fuck me? And and, and that wasn’t the only time that there was that kind of banter between not just male and female characters, but between male characters Todd. And it it made it so Todd me that it wasn’t so much like sexual innuendo or or sexual banter, but just vulgar, you know, just they were throwing vulgarities at each other indiscriminately. And it’s not like I was like, oh, yeah. Good one. But I at least appreciated that it was indiscriminate. They could have gone to a darker place with the women and I’m glad they didn’t. And in fact, Sherry Moon Zombie and Meg Foster totally hold their own, you know. And if if anything, they turn out to be tougher than the guys and they last longer than most of the guys. And I liked that.

Todd: That’s true. I I just think like like by the time it got to doom head, right, and he gets the phone call and he’s being all tough like, oh, I’ve I’ve gotta get this. This is business. She’s like, don’t you stop. He’s like, I’m gonna get it. He gets it. Right? She’s kind of leaves her there and he’s like, I gotta go. And it’s like that classic scene. Right? Oh, he’s got to leave the woman because what he his his work is way more important than sex. And then as he’s leaving, they have this exchange which it just seems so Hollywood. You know, I could predict every line he was saying

Craig: to her.

Todd: You know?

Clip: Yeah. Well, what the am I supposed to do? Well, you can stick your fingers in your dripping twat and finish yourself off or get the out. For anything, my dear, I don’t give a damn.

Craig: You know, pretty full of yourself. Nobody messes with mister big shot. Well, you.

Clip: Bitch, when you run a perfect game day after day, ain’t luck, cunt. Skill.

Todd: Can I

Clip: at least take a shower before I go? Negative. Take that stinking ass and hit the bricks.

Todd: You know, it’s just, it is just felt it’s well, not just nasty, but it just, I it was so predictable and it felt so written that, okay, we’re supposed Todd you’re supposed to be telling me how tough this guy is, but it’s so cliche that the way you’re doing it, there’s nothing new there.

Craig: Well, you’re right. I agree with you on that and it and it is nasty because basically, they call in all these people and this was you have kind of already alluded to it, but it’s a little anticlimactic and that they keep bringing in these new people and they’re supposed to be scary and like the way that they’re introduced is usually scary and then when they actually face off with our heroes for lack of a better word, like they’re just people and it really isn’t all that difficult for these people to fight back and dispatch them. Like it usually takes a couple of minutes. Yeah. It’s not even hard.

Todd: Because it’s always like it’s like 4 or 5 people on 1 or, you know, 4 or 5 people on 2. I mean, at some point, it’s easier to get the jump on them because they’re facing the opposite direction. Somebody else comes up from behind, you know, and they’re sloppy. They they just allow that to happen, you know.

Craig: And they the characters even talk about that at some point, like, they have a conversation where one of them wants to just find a place and barricade themselves in and just hold it down because it’s all based on time. It’s 12 hours. They’ve got to survive these 12 hours. But there’s at that point, there’s 4 of them left and they vote and Sherry Moon Zombie is the last vote and she says, let’s find these MFers and slit their throats. And so that’s what they do. They just stick together and they kinda wait these peep wait until these people show up or they kinda, you know, actively pursue them, whatever, and then they fight them as a group and they win most of the time. And there there are there are stupid contrivances where they split them up Yes. Sometimes. And it’s dumb, like, just out of nowhere a cage door will fall and so, like, oh, no. We’re split up.

Todd: And we’re in a cage.

Craig: Yeah. Ultimately, it doesn’t amount Todd any I mean, they just fight these people and and they win. Where I was going to get back to your criticism of the nastiness, you were talking about how Doomhead is banging that girl or whatever and then he has to go to work and then eventually he corners Venus. He, like, he grabs her by the throat and puts her up against the wall and then he sticks his hands down his pants and holds his fingers up to her nose. It’s like, do you smell that? Like, just nasty stuff like that. It is nasty and Rob Zombie is not afraid to go for the nasty. It’s really not my cup of tea, but I feel like he’s going for gritty and that’s fine. I’m not gonna be critical of it. I get it. I just feel like

Todd: and I’m not I’m not opposed to that either. And, you know, far be it for me. But but it’s just if if if it just Todd a little more judiciously used, it would have been more effective when it’s sort of in your face overused all that. I would say overused in this movie. Yeah. It just seems like he’s trying a little too hard to be nasty. You know, it’s Yeah. Todd doesn’t even come in at spots where it makes sense or it’s clever, you know, or it’s or it’s funny or whatnot. It just it’s just there. And after a while, I feel like I’m watching a written story, you know, and not real people. That’s just that that’s that’s why it really bothered me. Not not not the content, just the amount of it and the way it was all delivered.

Craig: Yeah. It’s really weird. You know, this movie, I I wanted to see it. I’ve seen most of Rob Zombie’s other movies, and the reason that I wanted to see this one and and really ultimately save it for our, you know, final Halloween episode is because I do appreciate that zombie, kind of throws back to those gritty movies of the seventies. He’s got a very seventies feel. It’s very Texas Chainsaw Massacre. You know, it it’s For sure. It’s it’s gritty. It’s it’s dark. It’s violent. And some of his other movies like, House of a 1000 Corpses, it’s not even, you know, on the list of my favorite movies, but it really unsettled me. Like, it was so violent and so gratuitous that it, you know, it almost kinda made me sick, like and I don’t wanna say in a good way, but Mhmm. It was effective in in what it did, and I and I appreciated that. And, then the sequel to that, The Devil’s Rejects was it amped it up even more like it was just even more and there’s violence and rape and and just all this terrible stuff that you see. And so going into this one, I had read that Rob Zombie had said this was his most brutal movie to date and after I watched it, I was, like, has Rob Zombie seen his other movies? Because

Todd: I didn’t think it was that brutal.

Craig: It wasn’t really and I just didn’t think that it was gosh, I hate to be critical because I like the guy and I think that he’s a cool voice in the world of horror, but I just didn’t think that it was as good as some of his other efforts.

Todd: It’s not his best work.

Craig: No. And he wrote it and he directed it. It was crowdfunded, like, I feel like it was funded by, like, Kickstarter or something.

Todd: Yeah. Two times. Like, he had he had to go back and raise more money or something.

Craig: Yeah. And and the dude lied, like like, he people were clamoring for another sequel to, House of a 1000 Corpses, which I think we’re getting. I think that’s coming soon, even even though they all died or supposedly died at the end of The Devil’s Rejects. I think that we’re getting in another one of those. But he lied and said that the studio owned all the rights to those characters, and then the studio was, like, no, dude. You own the rights. Do whatever you want. But, Like, he he clearly wanted to make this movie and, you know, on its own, I thought it was fine. I know you didn’t like it and that’s fine. I didn’t think it was great. I thought it was alright, but just in comparison even to his Halloween remakes which are very much, I I don’t know, like, people in the horror community, you know, I read all these blogs and stuff. Yeah. People really come down on those remakes. I watched them. I thought they were good. I thought, you know, if we’re talking about a franchise that now has, like, 10 movies. I was I appreciated that he at least, you know, took it in a different direction and took it dark and I I like that. Just in comparison to his body of work, I Todd didn’t think this one really stood up and I and I was a little disappointed.

Todd: It just didn’t bring anything new to the game, you know. It it I don’t think it was very original. We kinda went through some of it already. Okay. A group of wealthy people wanna get, you know, some people together.

Clip: Right.

Todd: Sic some other people on them to kill. Okay. Most dangerous game.

Craig: So the purge. Right?

Todd: The purge, most dangerous game, you know, that’s been around forever. Mhmm. So these people get together. Right? And then all these, like, running man, you said, all these different villains are are released on them. Then these villains, they kind of are different. Like, 2 of them are clowns with chainsaws. 1 of them is that Nazi clown guy. The other guy they end up calling in is like a big jerky. Oh, Oh, and then there’s a tall guy and a and the short woman who’s the woman that we saw earlier in the gas station. Yeah.

Clip: And they

Craig: Oh, god. And and I have Todd, like, when they brought in those 2, it was, I think, death head. Right? And

Todd: Death head and sex.

Craig: And sex head. And and it was e g daily doing her very best Harley Quinn. Yes. And and, literally, I love her and I was so excited to see her and I I enjoyed watching her, but that the whole thing, you know, they they hype up. Oh, we’re gonna send in death head and sex head and death head is like our, you know, our last resort because he’s definitely gonna get things done. And then they come in and they, you know, he’s this huge guy and she’s this tiny girl and the the visual of them together is is you kind of a striking visual. But then they split up and then they just both get killed like Yeah. Like it’s just over.

Todd: They’re the weakest. They’re the weakest of, actually, honestly, the minute they were both walking down that passage, I was like, okay. This isn’t gonna last long. No. Like, they’re gonna have to pull out some special, like, electricity from their fingertips or something to impress me. He just had a bat with some spikes on it, and she was just dancing around.

Craig: Yeah. And singing like they and she And they’re singing

Todd: a German song or something like that.

Clip: Todd on wood. Stock on wood. Stock on wood. State on wood.

Todd: Oh my gosh. Come on. We already had the Nazi guy earlier. Are we really gonna go back in and, oh, German is scary. Right? It wasn’t enough. And, yeah, they get killed so quickly. She leaps on what’s his name, thinking that he’s more incapacitated, and he’s not. And so he just, like, stabs her a bunch of Todd, and she’s dead. And then as soon as he sees her, you know, dead, he just stands there and flips out while somebody else comes up from behind him and, like, hits him several times with the bit. Oh, it it was, that was the first time that Carly killed somebody. Right? Charlie killed somebody. Right?

Craig: Maybe. I don’t know. No. She she killed somebody earlier too. I liked that about her, and I liked it about both of the women characters that I saw or read that Sherry Moon Zombie was interviewed about this and and she talked about how this girl that she’s playing, Charlie, is just a victim in this whole thing, but it just goes to show that when you are put in a life or death situation even normal people can resort to their most primal survival instincts And I liked that, you know, they are tough, especially the 2 ladies. They are they’re tough. And Nick Foster kicks ass in this movie. I I wanna give her

Todd: She does.

Craig: Props because I really liked her. In fact, she may have been my favorite part about the movie.

Todd: But, you know, it’s it’s not a new concept. I mean, you know

Craig: No. And No. The final girl? No. It’s not

Todd: a Final girl. And also, like, you know, The Hills Have Eyes. I’m thinking, you know, that’s kind of the whole point of that film. But even if you compare the 2, you know, say The Hills Have Eyes or even something like Straw Dogs, If you’ve ever seen that with Dustin Hoffman, like these are like normal sort of suburban everyday people who are put in these extraordinary situations and suddenly have to become as savage as the people attacking them in order to defend themselves. But in this case, they’re presented as kind of not normal everyday people. They’re rough. You know, they’re already kind of everybody, and this is rough around the edges. So even that kind of falls a little flat for me.

Craig: I guess.

Todd: I didn’t fall in love with any of these characters, you know, in the very beginning. So when they when these rough people are get coming across even rougher people, not that they were presented as bad people in the beginning, it just it didn’t hold a lot of emotional pathos for me as much as it would have been, you know, otherwise, like I said. Like, something like Saw, you know, where you get these poor folks who are, yeah, maybe they did something awful, but they certainly didn’t deserve their treatment,

Craig: you know, pulled

Todd: out of some suburban neighborhood or their office building and then put in this horrendous trap sort of situation, this grimy nasty dungeon and, it’s not the same.

Craig: Well, I’m gonna disagree with you just a little bit there because these people are presented as being imperfect and rough and not opposed to taking advantage of people and and that kind of stuff, but I actually did feel for them when they all got thrown in there. What I liked about it, especially there are some scenes early I don’t know. I mean, they don’t even really get thrown in there until, like, a half an hour into the movie. But then once they do, one guy gets killed and they’re sad about it. Okay. Fine. But they’re all separated, but they come back together very quickly. And I I really did get a sense of these people being like family and Yes. They they wanted desperately not just to protect themselves, but to protect one another.

Todd: Very good point.

Craig: And they were really upset when one of them would fall and you know, like the first guy that I I think it’s Levon is the first one that gets killed. And they sit around and cry and and Panda is like, that guy was my very best friend. And and, like, I I felt it, you know. I felt like they were like this kind of thrown together family and they did care about each other. And I very much got the sense that Venus, you know, was the was the mother of the group and she was looking out for all of them and that was that kind of ended up being her demise was because she woke up like she took like a 5 minute nap or whatever and she wakes up and Charlie is gone and, she she scolds, Roscoe, I can’t believe you let her go, and she goes out looking for her and then when Doomhead finds her, she says, please please just let them live. She doesn’t beg for her own life, she begs for their lives and and I bought that. I I thought that they did a good job with that. And so, you know, there are things that I do appreciate appreciate about it. There I do wanna say though that there were other things about the movie that drove me absolutely crazy because they made absolutely no sense. Like the first guy that dies is Levon, I think. And then literally, like, a minute later, the aristocrats or whatever you wanna call them set up this big dinner scene for them. Yes. And and it’s beautiful. I mean, the cinematography looks fantastic for this scene.

Todd: It it kinda looks like they filmed the whole movie at a haunted house at times. Yeah.

Clip: Right?

Todd: Yeah. Everything it’s like smoky and the lights are in all the right places and things. Right. Yeah. It’s it’s gorgeous.

Craig: And they kind of have a debate about should we eat or not. And one of the guys is, like, look, you know, if we’re gonna be fighting for our lives, we have to eat or whatever. And they sit down and and some of them start eating and then Charlie’s like, wait wait Todd eating. And she wipes the table clean and underneath it is the guy that just died as though they’ve been fed this guy who we just saw die a minute ago. Like Yeah. How did that happen?

Todd: How did they cook and eat of this thing?

Craig: And there Yeah.

Todd: I agree.

Craig: When when sex head, EG Daily’s character is fighting, Roscoe, she stabs him multiple times. Now Todd be fair, there was a strobe effect going on and so it was difficult to see exactly what was going on. But there were also sound effects and it sounded to me like she stabbed him like up under his ribs like 4 or 5 times at least and I wrote in my notes, okay, so sex had killed Roscoe. And then in the next scene, he’s there and beat up, but pretty much

Todd: okay. Around. Yeah. It wasn’t the first It wasn’t the first time. Even the Nazi guy in the beginning gets a huge whack from Charlie off the bat right across the face. And you hear this pop, and you think, okay. Like, she snapped his neck. She hit him or whatever. He’s dead. And he just brings up later, like, there’s like, nothing had happened. I thought that was odd. In fact, this sort of thing was happening so much in this movie that I really thought we were gonna get some twist where

Craig: there was some It was a dream or something. Yeah. Right.

Todd: Yeah. And there was even a dream bit in there, which I saw was I saw coming a mile away.

Craig: It was

Clip: a dream,

Todd: but I was like, please, God, let this not be a dream. Let this not be a dream because then this movie is gonna finally start getting interesting for me. It’s when Meg, falls, Meg Foster’s character, Venus, falls asleep, and she dreams that the clowns that they had just killed pretty, pretty brutally. One of them had his head taken off or there.

Clip: How did you really think cutting my hair off

Craig: was gonna keep me down? Oh, I got that mother so back on the panto, and

Todd: I am feeling grooving.

Craig: Hey, super a weak human around here. And you learned shit yet?

Todd: I thought, oh, wouldn’t that be interesting if this movie went there? Because that would totally throw me for a loop. Yeah. But no, of course, it was indeed a dream, which I suspected. And, yeah. So that you’re right. It happens so much to both sides. Yeah. It’s unbelievable. You know, the other thing I found was so crazy was the fact that they were continuing, like you said earlier, that they decide, well, we’re just gonna keep going. We’re gonna keep walking through this crazy death trap maze place that has been set up for this very purpose to to torture us instead of just hunkering down and waiting for them to come to me. Like, that made no sense. And, and and yeah. So there’s, like, that tacit moment where they kind of try to explain it like, well, they’re just gonna decide to go kill these guys anyway. But then there’s this moment where they go into that. They go straight into the vagina, right? They’re into that that like really done up. It looks like an indoor circus, Right. And there’s a woman who’s been strapped down or that was just from a previous, you know, victim or whatever that they find. And this whole thing is completely done up. I think it’s one of the characters. Here’s the chainsaw and he’s like, shit, they found us. Well, of course, they found you.

Craig: Right.

Todd: You know, you weren’t hiding or running from anybody. You just walked down into the area, you know, that was set up for your benefit. I mean, clearly.

Craig: Right. Right.

Todd: Just this notion that they’re it’s not really like the running man. Right? Because they’re in this game that’s all been set up. And the running man, it’s kind of free freestyle. And here, everything’s set up for their purpose. So the fact that they’re just willingly walking through and, laying themselves out, these seem to be like they would be smarter people than this.

Craig: Right. You know, but they’re not. When, Venus wakes up from her dream and Charlie has gone off on her own and and and Venus scolds Roscoe for letting her go off on her own, like, yeah, she should scold him. Like, how stupid are you? Why would you go wandering off on your own? You know that the killers are out there. Like, what what is the point? And then she find like, it’s so random and stupid. Like, she finds this little, like, contrivance out of a music box, and she’s, like Oh my gosh. Like, spinning it and playing it. I’m like, are you trying to draw attention to yourself? Like, what is wrong with you?

Todd: He was just trying to be cool again. You know? Again, it’s like, oh, you wanted to put some music box, some creepy music box sound in here. And so you made the character pick it up and play it absentmindedly. It, yeah, that annoyed me. And and then some of the lines of this movie are really dumb. Like, when Doomhead’s finally called in and, he shows up, and he’s, you know, puts on his make up. There’s this whole scene. And he tells all of the guards. So we find out there are guards there too. There’s more to this company than just that, which brings up all other kinds of questions, but I’ll just sort of let those go for now. And he tells

Clip: them Jalen, take the rest of the night off. I’ll handle it from here. Murder School, is now in session.

Todd: My god.

Craig: Really? I remember that. Really? Oh. Well, and then he’s he’s, like, the big bad. Like, he’s the last one, their last resort. And the the aristocrats are, like, well, what happens if somebody lives? And Malcolm McDowell is, like, oh, that never happens. It’ll never happen, so we don’t have to worry about it. And, you know, the whole aristocrat, all of those scenes, you know, they’re just kind of plugged in. Mhmm. They they don’t really matter whatever, but then so as it turns out, Doomhead comes in. He kills Venus. He chases Roscoe and, Charlie. And at some point, Doomhead is like, oh, and by the way, the doors to the outside are open now. Good luck. Oh, okay. And so And then walks away.

Todd: Yeah. Walks away. Go out.

Craig: And then Roscoe and Charlie, like, they find some sort of of hatch and they

Clip: open it and and she goes

Craig: down, but he can’t because he’s too injured or whatever.

Clip: He stays back and

Craig: then he gets killed. And then she ends up in this tunnel, and at the end of the tunnel, it’s not gonna be and then she ends up in this tunnel and at the end of the tunnel is broad daylight and she goes out into the broad daylight and she’s just walking around outside and she sees this house and she goes in and it’s like this abandoned house and there’s, like, this marionette theater set up in there which we’ve already seen something similar earlier at the gas the gas station or whatever. But then Doom had I mean, I liked the marionettes. That’s fun.

Todd: They were it was cute and it was appropriately creepy, but what in the world was that all about? It was like just perpetually playing in the corner of this gas station when they first showed up. Then how did it end up back in this house? Was there supposed to be some kind of weird connection here?

Craig: Probably, but I didn’t get it.

Todd: Uh-huh moment? Yeah. It was again, just, like, trying to be creepy again. I mean, the way she wanders into that room, it seems like it has a huge impact on her. Like, my god.

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: Falls to her knees, you know.

Craig: Oh. But anyway, okay. So then she’s in this abandoned house and then Doomhead shows up right behind her and he brutally punches her right in the face to the point where she’s almost unconscious and then he goes off on a big soliloquy and just as he’s about to kill her, this big alarm goes off and you hear voices over some speakers somewhere. Weapons down, 31 is over and she’s won. And Yes. And Doomhead is is super mad, like, gosh darn it. Like, oh, I was just about to kill you. Now I’m super mad and I was excited and happy. I’m, like, oh, she made it. That’s awesome. And then they show, you know, the aristocrats just taking off their wigs and washing the makeup off their faces, putting on their regular clothes and just leaving, like, okay. Happy Halloween. That was fun. But the the last thing in the movie and it made me so mad. I know. Cherry Moon Zombie Sherry Moon Zombie is walking down the road. It’s totally, you know, Texas Chainsaw Massacre style or we’ve seen it in a 1000000 movies.

Todd: She’s Sun’s coming up. She’s walking down

Craig: the empty Todd. To an absolute pulp. She’s, you know, weak and limping and bloody, and she’s walking down the road and, this van pulls up behind her and Aerosmith’s dream on is playing in the background, which was there’s great seventies music in this movie if nothing else. And then, Doomhead gets out of the van and walks up behind her And honest to Todd, I thought that he was gonna offer her a ride. Yeah.

Todd: Me too. Me too.

Clip: And that’s

Craig: what I wanted

Todd: to go there.

Craig: And that’s what I wanted to happen. Instead, she turns around and he pulls out his switch blades and opens them up and like smiles at her like I’m gonna get you and we see her like clench her fists like she’s gonna go down with a fight and and then it cuts away and that’s the end and it just cuts back to this 35 millimeter film of all of them from the beginning when they were happy and dancing and and it was fun. Mhmm. But that in it made me so mad. I was, like, not fair. You’re cheating.

Todd: She wanted to punch the screen. She won. She did.

Craig: She won.

Todd: Am I supposed to oh, god. Yeah. That was off. Actually, the whole Doom head thing was stupid. He’s played up and and we see him early in the movie. Actually, What we didn’t mention was the very first shot of the movie is him coming up and killing this priest. And he gives this long, long soliloquy into the cameras that we’re, you know, looking at him. And it’s, you know, it sets you up quite well for the movie. And you think, okay. This is the badass we’re gonna be dealing with in this movie. Well, he doesn’t come in toward the end. And he’s the one, right, that they’ve got Todd

Clip: call in

Todd: to fix everything.

Clip: And

Todd: what does he do? He ends up coming up behind Meg Foster when she’s looking through a window and stabs her in the back. Right. Okay. That didn’t take much. The second guy doesn’t even put up a fight.

Craig: No. Because he’s totally incapacitated anyway.

Todd: So he just stands there and says come at me, and he does and he stabs him and he doesn’t even move his arms. He just kills him. Right. And he comes up to her and oop, time’s up. Right. And then at the end, oh, yeah. I’m gonna kill you anyway on the on the middle of the road.

Craig: It made me mad. Like, I mean, I guess I get it. Like, he’s crazy and he’s a psycho so he’s going rogue and, like, he’s just doing it to satisfy himself or whatever, but it’s not fair. It was a game and there were rules and she won. It made me so mad.

Todd: And it just kinda makes the whole movie rather pointless, doesn’t it? I mean, what was the point? And we don’t know anything about these people. There was no I I kept thinking we’re gonna get some big reveal. We’re gonna have something here that’s gonna make me think, okay, this is cool. But no, it’s just like 3 random rich people who put on this game for who knows how long and who knows why and who knows.

Clip: Right.

Todd: They’ll probably do it again next year or whatever. They they just leave. This guy is gonna just kill this girl anyway. I mean and and I saw that Rob Zombie mentioned that, the thing that gave him the idea for this movie was that, he had read somewhere that they’re the most disappearances on the 31st October on Halloween for some reason. I don’t know if that’s actually true.

Craig: I don’t know.

Todd: But he thought he would kind of base a movie around that idea. Well, this isn’t really even that. I mean, this would account for 4 disappearances, but it’s not like like he’s making a point that this is like some huge thing that happens all over the country, you know? I don’t know. And did they have these video cameras, all the way out in the middle of the desert and in that abandoned cabin and stuff, so they could see how all this panned out? -I don’t know. -No, man. No. I thought this movie was really stupid. And, rich gratuitous for no I don’t mind gratuitous as long as there’s a point. And I felt like not only was it gratuitous for no point, but I felt like it was so gratuitous that for no point that it just seemed like it was trying really really hard. And I could see right through it and it distracted me the whole time. I just I just couldn’t get into it.

Craig: Yeah. That’s and it’s fair. It’s cool, you know, I’m not gonna try to defend it too much because, I do think that zombies other movies are better, but I guess I just still I appreciate it because I appreciate that zombie has a style that is relatively unique in the world of horror today and I’m glad that there are people like him out there who really appreciate the genre and appreciate the history of the genre and wanna bring their own voice and and style to things. I think this was a, you know, you talk about hit, you know, a hit and a miss. I I think that this was a miss for him. I didn’t hate it. I thought I I in fact, I liked it more than I thought that I would. The very first time that I watched this, I put it on, like, when I was going to sleep. And I and I woke up and somebody was getting beaten to death and I’m like, oh, Todd. It’s gonna be another one of those gruesome zombie movies. And compared to his other movies, I actually thought this one was pretty tame. It was just it was too formulaic. It was too predictable. I didn’t hate it. I I wasn’t bored. I wouldn’t watch it again, but I mean, I I guess I’m I’m glad that I saw it because it satisfied my curiosity, but, yeah, I I feel you. I I didn’t I didn’t love it.

Todd: I read that when it was first present it was presented twice and got an NC 17 from the MPAA. And finally, he made enough cuts to get it to an r. And then he promised that he would have the uncut version available on the DVD or whatever. But that was never ended up being released. Like, the DVD was released, but he never had never released an uncut version. I can see where there’s a lot of potential for lots of blood and effects and things like that. But for me, there was this was my other problem with the movie was there was so much shaky cam and so many quick cuts that I couldn’t tell what was going on half the time. Well, I And I couldn’t appreciate any any of the brutality or whatever that was going on. And I wonder if that was just because of the cuts he had to make or if that was just his style too.

Craig: Well, and I read and I I don’t know if this is accurate or not, but I read that he conceptualized this as a franchise. Like, he planned

Todd: Oh, jeez.

Craig: He planned on doing more of them, but it it it didn’t do well at all. Like, I think it made, like, $800,000 or something, at the box office. It, mister zombie, I’m sure you’re not listening, but if you are, I have mad respect for you, but I love your music. Yeah. Let this one go. It was a good effort. It was a good effort. Appreciate it, but, move on.

Todd: I highly concur. And and we’ll have to do another one of his Todd because I I would like to see another one. You you tell me which one you think is his best, and we’ll do that one

Craig: Okay.

Todd: At a later date. Alright. Well, thanks again for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. If you’re a big fan of Rob Zombie’s movies, why don’t you tell us which one we should do next time? You can find us on Facebook. You can send us a message there. You can also leave us a comment on our website. It’s 2 guys dot redfortynet.com. Just become a part of the conversation. We love hearing from you. And happy Halloween.

Clip: Happy Halloween.

Todd: We, of course, will continue the spirit of Halloween all the way through the next year. Until next time. I’m Todd, and I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Part four of our 2018 Halloween extravaganza was a fun episode to record. That doesn’t necessarily mean the movie was fun. Listen for some laughs, but stick around for some fascinating movie history surrounding the director of this otherwise laughable cinematic attempt.

Episode 145, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Every year around this time, we scour the Internet to find Halloween themed movies to bring to you. And, every year it gets a little bit harder and harder. You know, there just aren’t as many Halloween I think, we say the same thing over and over again, every single year. There just aren’t as many Halloween themed horror movies as you might expect. And so we find horror movies Todd take place on Halloween. We try to find horror movies that at least conjure up the spirit, that are tangentially related to Halloween. In this case, something that flew under our radar for at least a little bit is the more obviously titled Trick or Treats from 1982. Not to be confused with trick our treat, which we have reviewed before and absolutely loved, or trick or treat, which was the they rocking, Thor. Remember Thor from Trick or Treat? Oh, boy. That was fun. That movie was at least entertaining. But then we have this film. And, wow. So, it does check all the boxes. It, is a horror film. At least it claims to be. It takes place on Halloween and there’s a lot of Halloween stuff in it. And I had just had this sort of feeling that at the end of this, podcast you were not gonna do your standard. You know, if you’re having a Halloween party and you wanna have something on the background, it’d be a fun thing to do, you know? Pop in and out, have a few beers, a few laughs.

Craig: Yeah. Probably not.

Todd: Oh, boy. The the box everything everything about this movie is a sham. From the, box art that has a bag with a torn blood coming out of it and the head inside of it, to the description on the back of the box, to the pictures on the back of the box. Everything about this movie is not what it seems.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. It’s kind of a bummer. You know, I again, I think this is one of the ones that I recommended just because, you know, it is

Todd: Well, the title.

Craig: Yeah. The title really, and and and we hadn’t seen it. And I like watching movies every once in a while that neither of us have seen so that we can kinda get a fresh take on it or whatever. But, yeah, it’s it’s disappointing. I mean, it’s it’s it’s evident that they are trying to do the kind of paint by numbers, slasher here. You know, there’s there’s shades of Carpenter’s Halloween. There’s shades of, you know, tons of other slashers that you’ve seen, but ultimately it I don’t know. It feels like something that could have played in prime time as a made for TV movie around Halloween and not a good one. Like, it’s it’s it I don’t I don’t know. I mean, the okay. I 2 major issues that I have with it is that it’s billed as a slasher, and there’s exactly one kill Yeah. Then there’s an implied one also. But there’s only really one kill, and it doesn’t happen until 20 minutes until the end of the movie. And that’s boring. And then secondly secondly, I feel like this movie has no idea what it’s trying to be. Like Yeah. At at some points, it seems like it’s kind of typical slasher. And then at some points, it seems like it’s really trying to hit the the comedy really hard

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: But just in parts and, like, those parts are kind of funny just because they’re so ridiculous, but I I’m just sitting here watching it thinking, wait, is this supposed to be a horror comedy? Like, because it’s

Todd: I know.

Craig: It’s so sparse and it just happens every once in a while and when it happens, it’s so over the top and ludicrous that it just feels entirely out of place in the rest of the movie, and I just don’t I don’t even know what to make of it, really.

Todd: Yeah. You’re right. I don’t either. And I thought, okay, maybe maybe they’re trying to play it off as a horror comedy, but there’s nothing about that online. There’s really no indication. And, certainly, the way the movie was marketed is absolutely nothing like that. If you look at the history of the writer director of this movie, Gary Graver, he is a very very interesting guy.

Craig: Well, yeah. I mean, he’s certainly prolific.

Todd: Well, yeah. I mean, if you just go and count the number of of movies that he’s done.

Craig: Of 100. Yeah.

Todd: It’s like over over 200 except most of them are porn. Right.

Craig: Like, I was I was looking at all the titles and they’re all ridiculous. Like, you can tell they’re all porn. I was like, one of them was, like, flesh and boner. I’m like, okay. So I clicked on it, and, like, of course, there’s nothing about it on because it’s porn. Like Yeah.

Todd: Peaches and Craig, indecent exposure. I want to be bad. He did a whole series of Susie Superstar. I was just noticing on there that, in 1982, around the time he was doing that, he had to squeeze this in between his two other important projects. Society Affairs and Center Spread Girls. Yeah. He must be busy. I’m sure he was doing this one at night. And he was. Yeah. Actually, he was. He was shooting this movie, from 6 PM till midnight over the course of 3 weeks, which would seem like a major achievement except once you watch the movie, you’re like, well, yeah, of course.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. Like, you’ll kinda surprised it took that long. Right.

Todd: It was even shot in the house of one of the cast members, Carrie Snodgrass, who’s one of the few actually recognizable actresses in this movie.

Craig: There’s a few of them, which also surprised me. I I wondered what connections he must have had to get a few of these cameos because, like, David Carradine is in it for a little while.

Todd: So weird.

Craig: Yeah. And and I don’t know. There were there were other recognizable faces, people that I’ve seen pop up in other horror movies. So I don’t know. You know, the guy worked, as a cinematographer a lot, and, he directed a lot too. And so even though most of the stuff that he was doing was porn or softcore porn, I can only imagine that he must have had some connections and was able to, you know, call in maybe some favors favors from some of these, you know, b list, celebrities. It’s not like David Carradine is, like, some huge amazing star, but he did some big movies. He was a big name for a while.

Clip: You you

Craig: I mean, David Carradine’s gone now. Right? Like, I think he’s passed away. So we can’t ask him. But you just you just have to wonder, like, how did you get suckered into this movie?

Todd: A lot of fake names, fake script, fake titles. Yeah. Maybe he just gave him the pages he needed to do.

Craig: Yeah. Maybe.

Todd: Well, Gary Graver did this weird thing earlier on in his career, and he just flat out wrote to Orson Welles and said, hey. I wanna work with you. And Orson Welles wrote back and said, you know what? You’re only one of 2 cinematographers who’s ever asked to work with me. And from that, they ended up getting this weird friendship. They they hit it off, and they were together, and Orson Welles needed a cinematographer to work on this movie that he was producing. And now this was this was in the seventies, and this was past Orson Welles’, you know, prime. This was at the time he was getting really, really fat. He was going on a bunch of talk shows on TV. He’d done some good movies, you know, but, he he was kind of ostracized by Hollywood. His success, he’s he was kind of ruined by success and not all his own fault. But people thought he was arrogant. People didn’t appreciate this outsider from the theater coming in and trying to teach everybody how it’s done. And so, the very innovative things that he did in film, it was just basically jealousy by a lot of the Hollywood community. And even though he won, one Academy Award for Citizen Kane, which, you know, many people recognize as one of the best films ever made, at least it was a certainly a breakthrough film at the time. Tons of innovative techniques. Things that they were not ever doing in film before then. He he did on that movie and it’s also a fantastic movie. He won one award for that. Only one, for screenwriting. And he didn’t even show up to accept it. That’s how much disdain he had for the academy at that point. Well, this guy, Gary Graber, got a hold of him while he was trying to shoot this movie. And this was this pet project that he had going on in his later years of his life, where he was travelling around from South America Todd Spain to all these different places in the world, and just, shooting here and shooting there over the course of a couple decades, this unfinished film that he never got to to finish before he died, called The Other Side of the Wind. And this was to be his sort of final swan song, take on Hollywood, and the Hollywood scene and and and basically poo pooing the whole thing in the seventies. He never finished it. And if you read any biography of Orson Welles, and I I I was pretty fascinated with him at the time. I thought, what a shame. You know, that this guy’s last movie. It just seemed like like this hobby thing that he was working on and this Gary Graver, believe it or not, was the cinematographer for him throughout that entire time.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. He worked this guy, Graver worked so much in cinematography. Based on experience alone, you would think that, you know, he must have had some skill. And and if Orson Welles had confidence in him, I I believe that that was probably well founded. And as far as cinematography goes in this movie, it’s fine. It’s it’s it’s nothing that would stand out to me as being particularly interesting or unique, but it’s competent and

Todd: Well, you know, he gets the flesh tones. Right? Right? Yeah. Sure. That’s a joke.

Craig: I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s I mean, it’s alright. It just it it it’s just not good. Like, it’s it’s so hard to you’re right. I’m not gonna be able to do a lot of fishing and say, well, yeah, but at least this was good. Well, no, not really. I mean, it’s all pretty lame.

Todd: I thought even some of the shooting was pretty bad. He loves to do the slow zoom. That was kind of popular earlier on there, but but you’re right. It’s not like it’s all in a wash and darkness and you can’t see what’s going on. Right. But it’s it’s not particularly inspired.

Craig: No. It’s not.

Todd: Yeah. It looks like something that was shot kind of at the end of a long day for 5 hours a night before everybody decided to go to sleep.

Craig: Right. Right. And it, you know, it was low budget. I think it shot on a budget of, like, what, $50,000 or something like that. And he raised some money himself, and he did, you know, like, he begged, borrowed, and stole to, you know, even get that small budget. And like you said, they shot the the vast majority of it in an existing house, which is fine. I mean, it looks good. It Todd doesn’t look like they were too constrained by space or or anything like that. But then there you know, anything that didn’t happen in the house. Like, there are some scenes that take place in a loony bin, and that’s the best way to describe it because it’s so stereotypical and stupid. Like, it doesn’t look like a medical facility at all. Oh, yeah. In in fact, it looks like they shot it on a bare sound stage. Like Yes. Like, there’s nothing there. Like, just gray floor, gray walls.

Todd: It does. It looks like they went to the high school the local high school and set up a bunch of tables and chairs on the sound stage. And just lit the the the scrim behind them. It’s so nuts. And they’re supposed to be nuts. And, again, it’s another one of those cases where everybody acts so ridiculously insane. Everybody’s got some weird quirk. And, it’s like a cartoon idea of what insane people would be.

Craig: Yes. Exactly. It’s it’s Mhmm. It’s stupid. There’s just no getting around that it’s tough. I don’t know. I mean, the premise in theory, the premise sounds like, well, okay. That could be interesting. Okay. So you we we open up on this couple eating outside, and it looks like a scene pulled directly out of Heather’s when Winona Ryder’s parents were constantly sitting outside, like, eating breakfast. It looks exactly like that. It looks just like the same house. And this couple is eating breakfast and it’s like, you know, this kind of twitchy middle aged wife and the husband who just seems to be totally closed off. Like, I she talks to him. I don’t even think he says anything to her. Like, he just gives her dirty looks. And then the doorbell rings, and she goes and picks she goes and answers it. And it’s were the okay. So it’s 2 orderlies. Were they supposed to be twins, or did they just look oddly alike? You know,

Todd: it was the early eighties. Everybody had a curly bushy hair and a big handlebar mustache. And remember, this guy did come from porn, so I’m sure he pulled just a couple of his extras.

Craig: That could very well be. Well, these 2 big burly guys who look identical to one or the other come in, and as it and they they grab, the husband whose name is Malcolm. And, as it turns out, Joan somehow has arranged to have him committed. And it there’s a long scene, like

Todd: Oh my

Craig: gosh. There are several of these. It takes forever of him, like, the the husband, like, running around. And they’re just, like, running around this pool, so they don’t even really have anywhere to go. And so it’s just the husband, like, kind of bouncing back and forth between the 2 guys. And, like, he throws 1 in the pool, and then that one gets out of the pool. Then he throws the one in the pool, and then they all end up in the pool. Like, they’re trying to get, handcuffs on him, and then they eventually get him into a straight jacket. But it goes on forever. Like, it’s the longest struggle ever.

Todd: And it’s not even interesting. Right? No. It’s not well, Well, we don’t know. The thing is, we don’t even know, really what’s happening. Is she doing this? Are these people legit? Is this guy really insane? You know, what’s her motivation? Maybe it’s supposed to be a bit of a mystery, but, in any case, it doesn’t really turn out to be much of anything. We’re just supposed to believe that this guy was insane and she just had him committed. It’s a strange place to open up a movie.

Craig: Yeah. And and the ultimately, we never really know, like, because it it it seems like she has him set up. Yeah. But then once then once he gets in there, like, he is crazy. So Yeah. Are we meant to believe that he was crazy all along or just the fact that he’s been, you know, unrightly committed that and has been around all these crazy people that that drove him mad, like, I don’t know. It’s so muddy.

Todd: She plays it quite a bit uneven too because, you know, it keeps shooting. It keep the shots keep cutting between them struggling in the pool and her looking on and just watching it happen. And at times, she looks like she’s, like, smiling deliciously, you know, like she, like you said, like, she’s pulling some trick on him, or, you know, she’s getting the upper hand in an unfair way, but, like you said, it turns out he is crazy and so, you know, whatever. And then, later on, her interactions are also quite quirky. She’s, she’s, she’s as, she’s a quirky character for a while.

Craig: Yeah. And this this actress, I didn’t write her name down, but she was in a lot of things too. Like, if you look at her credits, I really didn’t recognize her from anything in particular, but she worked a lot.

Todd: Carrie Snodgrass. Yeah. She worked in a ton of things and a lot of TV, a lot of movies, and this was her house. It was it was filmed in. Yeah. And, also, while we’re talking actors and actresses, one of the 2 orderlies who came, I also recognized right away because he was one of the 2 heavies in one of my all time favorite childhood movies, cloak and dagger.

Craig: Oh, yeah. You’ve talked about that before.

Todd: I I was all excited and this movie, there’s really very little to get excited about this movie. So you gotta take it where you can get it.

Craig: Yeah. Gosh. Okay. And so then all that happens, and then you just get, you know, a card several years later. And it cuts to, you know, a buxom blonde in the shower. Coming from a guy who did so much porn, you would have expected there to be more nudity in this movie, but there’s not yeah. I mean There’s none. She’s behind a a semitransparent but ultimately opaque curtain, so you can’t really see her. But it just cracked me up. Like, she’s showering, and then the phone rings. And, of course, this is 1982, so, you know, it’s a landline. And she, like, it’s she reaches out. Like, she’s got the phone, like, sitting right next to the tub, and she reaches out and answers the phone and is talking on her landline in the shower. Like, who does that?

Todd: He in the shower with water going down on her everything. Right?

Craig: It doesn’t even make any sense. And her name is Linda, and, apparently, she’s getting a call from an agency. It must be like a a babysitting or nanny agency or something. Like, again, it goes on forever. Can you talk

Clip: louder? Oh. Tonight? Well, you’re gonna need me. Yeah. But, well, my boyfriend, he’s opening a play tonight, and I was planning on well, son. Well, do you think maybe you could get somebody else? Uh-huh. Yeah. I know. I know. How about if I came a little later? No. I can’t take the address down now. I’m in the shower. So I I’ll call you by back. Okay? Yeah. Thanks. Bye.

Craig: So she calls her boyfriend, Brett, and is like, oh, I’m really sorry. I can’t come to your play. I have to babysit, and he’s all upset. And she’s like, well, the agency said they’ll fire me if I don’t do it, and I have to have these babysitting jobs if I wanna be able to do my acting in the daytime. And Brett is like, when else are you gonna get to see me play Othello? And I like, what?

Todd: Is this a one night only?

Craig: Well, not only that, but he’s this I I think they’re supposed to be young, though they don’t look young at all. And he’s white. And, like

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: I I realized that in 1982, Anthony Hopkins did Othello in blackface back in the day. So maybe in 1982, they were still doing that. I don’t know. But or maybe it was supposed to be a joke. I just didn’t get it. Like I

Todd: think I think, honestly, I don’t think the producers or writer of this movie had any idea what who Othello was. I think it just pulled up random play. I think that’s the most likely explanation when you consider all the rest of the writing in this movie.

Craig: Oh, god. Yeah. And so whatever. She says, well, I have to go, but they’re gonna be gone all night, so maybe you can come over later. And that’s just another thing. You know, these things there are some things that just bother me about movies like this when you have a subplot that is just entirely unnecessary and amounts to nothing.

Todd: This guy could have been cut out of the whole movie. It made no difference. There are phone calls with him that she has throughout the evening. Give us no new information, do not advance the plot in any way, and, are totally useless. They’re just chewing chewing time.

Craig: They are. And I, you know, I at least figured that he would show up, you know, at the end when she was in peril and maybe try to help her or maybe just show up and get killed or something. But, no, she just talks to him on the phone several times and that’s it. Like

Todd: Yes. And they’re boring conversations. They mean nothing. They amount to nothing.

Craig: Oh, god. So alright. Okay. So Joan, the wife, has remarried Richard played by David Carradine who is just chewing up the scenery. Like, he doesn’t have anything to do, and, like, I don’t even know. They’re dressed, like, in tuxedos. I don’t know what they’re supposed to be. And they’re going they’re going out for the night, and they’re gonna be gone all night, and they’re going to a Halloween party. But they talk about she’s like, do you have the plane tickets? I’m, like, you’re flying to a party tonight, and you’re gonna be back in the morning? Like, I don’t even understand what’s happening.

Todd: It’s so stupid. I know. And I love it when the babysitter comes over and, they’re packing. So the babysitter’s there and they’re packing up and they’re they’re it’s like they’re almost getting out the door. And she says, why don’t you go downstairs and fix us a drink? I’m like, really? It looks like you’re almost ready to leave. Yeah. You’re gonna go down and get a drink first. And when the babysitter shows up, which is, you know, which is, of course, Linda. She comes to the door, and it’s I mean, you know, they’re we’re we’ve got this Halloween theme going on. The sum total of the Halloween decorations on the outside of this house are all these cheap, like, paper, cartoony, Halloween decorations like a witch’s head and a pumpkin and a skeleton or whatever just taped randomly to the door?

Craig: Right. Like decorations that you would see like in the hallway of an elementary school. Yeah. And she looks at them ominously like Yeah. Like, this place is kinda spooky. Like, she’s She looked really uncomfortable

Todd: kinda she kinda taps it. And then, of course, then the camera gives us multiple shots of these things as though they are really scary. It’s like witch, pumpkin, skeleton, spider, then her face.

Craig: Right. Oh, man. It’s so dumb. Oh, god. And and the we get introduced to the kid whose name is Christopher, and he’s this little fat kid. And and then it cuts to a a shot, an outside shot of this big building with a sign in front of it that says Western State Hospital, home to the insane. And that’s when we see that Malcolm is now in this insane asylum. And it’s just terrible acting. Like you said, like, it’s like if you told high school students to do the most over the Todd, ridiculous impersonation of what they would imagine a insane asylum to be like. Like, it’s it’s just terrible. You know, people with ridiculous twitches and I can’t even describe it. It’s so bad. I mean, just imagine

Todd: Guys jumping around like monkeys in the background.

Craig: Like, eating their checkers, you know, pieces. Like, it’s just stupid. It’s so terrible. And so we know that he’s there and he’s kind of talking and he’s mad that he’s there. And he talks to the doctor and he’s like, when am I going to get out of here, doctor? And the doctor’s like, oh, soon. Don’t worry. And he’s like, that’s what you said yesterday, doctor. And then

Todd: and then the doctor

Craig: and the nurse walk away, and the nurse is like,

Clip: now why did you say that to him? You know he’s as mad as a hatter. You have to humor these people, nurse Reeves. They’re crazy.

Craig: Like, it’s just it’s terrible it’s terrible dialogue. It’s delivered terribly. It’s awful. You know why you know why? It’s probably because there’s

Todd: an alternate version of this where the nurse turns back to him and says, you know, doctor, it seems like lately you’ve been under a lot of stress.

Clip: It it’s it felt like it definitely could have gone

Craig: in that direction, which Sure. Which could have gone in that direction, which which leads perfectly into the next scene where we go back to the house and Richard, the husband, like, is flirting with this babysitter in the most over the top ridiculous manner. And not only is his flirtation so ridiculous and over the top, but it’s also ridiculous that she, like, coyly plays along. Like, he’s so lecherous and disgusting and she’s like

Todd: You must be Linda.

Clip: Yes. Mister Adams?

Todd: Please call me Richard.

Clip: Okay.

Todd: Would you, like a glass of brandy, Linda?

Clip: No. No. Thank you.

Craig: Are you sure? Mhmm.

Todd: Not even a little sick.

Clip: No. Come on. No.

Craig: And then he backs her up against the door and she’s wearing, like, this jumper. Like, I also have in my notes, like, what the freak is she wearing? Like, she’s wearing, like, this white jumper. Like, she’s, like, a race car driver or something, but it’s, like, shorts. And then she’s got these, like, these black stockings pulled up to her knees, like

Todd: At first, I thought she was in a costume. Like, she was in some kind of sexy well, not even sexy, but just like some kind of nurse costume or something when she first came in.

Craig: I don’t know. But anyway, she’s wearing this tight little number and he Richard, like, backs her up against the wall and unzips her whole top, like, down to her navel. And she’s just like It’s hilarious. Meanwhile, his wife, is in the

Todd: other room. Of course, she pops in, and she doesn’t seem that disturbed by it Yeah, it’s like oh she’s willing to dismiss it very quickly

Craig: silly boys

Todd: So dumb Oh, god.

Craig: And so then, whatever. He gives her the ring.

Todd: At this moment, you know, the again, Joan is acting really both Richard and Joan are playing off each other like they’re kind of weird people. Like, they’ve got something up their sleeve, that they’re just a little off, maybe they’re a little high society, maybe they’re planning something sinister. That is the impression. I don’t know if you got that impression, but that was sort of the impression I felt like they were playing each other like these are not trustworthy people.

Craig: I guess. I think I think you’re giving it too much credit. I think it was just terrible acting.

Todd: Terrible acting.

Craig: Yeah. I, and and, like, just so many silly like, the babysitter even says something to the mom, like, aren’t you gonna introduce me to the kid? And the mom’s, like, oh, you’ll find him eventually or he’ll find you. Like,

Todd: so dumb.

Craig: And then they just leave. And then you meet the kid and then really the whole the next 40 minutes or so is just kind of this cat and mouse thing that just really gets so annoying after a while. Like, this kid okay. So his room is all done up in, like, Houdini posters, and he’s got all these, like, magic trick props and a ventriloquist dummy. So, like, he’s big time into magic or whatever. Coincidentally, he has a working guillotine in his room. Mhmm. So, like, we see that he demonstrates that it actually works first just so we’re sure. And then, when the babysitter comes in to meet him, he is in the guillotine with his head in it, and he pulls it and he spits blood out, but it was just a gag. And she is not amused at all. And the thing that I found that most unintentionally funny about this movie is how obnoxious this kid is. Like, he’s just freaking rotten. Like, he’s not charming at all. No. He’s just horrible. And she immediately just hates him. Like like, I hate you. Stop doing this. And she’s so grouchy and so mean, like, from the get go. Like, you would expect, like, oh, Hardyhar, Christopher, like, that’s really funny.

Todd: Some arc here. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. There might be some build. Like, I could understand, like, you know, after a while, it gets old because it does get old really fast. But no, just from the beginning, she’s like, oh, Christopher. I you’re terrible. Like, it’s just awful.

Todd: Every single time and and it’s just like you said 40 minutes of exactly the same thing.

Craig: Yeah. Prank after prank after prank.

Todd: She’s in some random room of the house, and she decides to walk into another room. And there, Christopher has done some dumbass little prank on her, or she decides, for some reason, to go outside to the shed and walk around in the shed for a while. And Christopher is up on the second story of the shed and drops a rat on her hand, which for freaks her out. And, you know, I was actually looking at the box art for this movie and reading the writing on the back. And one of the descriptions says, Christopher is a master of mischievous pranks. And I’m like, absolutely not. None of these pranks are mischievous. They’re just stupid.

Craig: And mean. Like, at one point, he pretends to drown

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: And she has to she has to jump in the pool and she pulls him out. And the another gross thing about the movie is he keeps making really lewd comments. Like, he’s supposed to be, what, maybe 10?

Clip: You stop it now or I’ll put you down bed. Now that’s the best soft fry I’ve had all day.

Craig: Like, gross.

Todd: Shut up. There’s a lot of stupid stuff like that. And they’re supposed to be clever, like, every one of these things ends with her storming out the room, and then a shot of him, and he’s supposed to be saying some witty clip at the end. But it’s not at all witty.

Clip: No. It’s

Todd: just really? It’s dumb.

Craig: It is dumb. And he he pretends to drown at one point. And, of course, she freaks out, and she jumps in the pool, and she pulls him out. And, of course, you see where this is going. Yeah. You know, she first and and, Todd. It just drove me absolutely insane that she pulls him out, and I’m, like, obviously, she’s gonna try to give him CPR and then it’s gonna be you kissed me or whatever. And I suppose that’s what it was supposed to be, but, apparently, this actress thinks that CPR is making out with somebody to get them to come back to life. Yes. I know. She’s not blowing in his mouth at all. She just, like, puts his mouth her mouth on his and, like, writhes around

Todd: a lot. French kissing him. It is disgusting. It is so barfy.

Clip: Thanks for the kiss, baby.

Todd: And then, after he’s done about 6 of these pranks, one of them happens on the staircase. And finally, she comes down. She says, Christopher, have you ever heard the story of the boy who little boy who cried wolf? And he’s like, no. And then, she sits down and actually tells him the entire story. Story.

Craig: Oh, and my favorite part of that was there was a part at the very, very end of it where she stumbled over a word, and they clearly just didn’t wanna do it again. Like, no. Good enough. It’s fine.

Todd: I didn’t want her to do it again for sure. No. If I’d been on that set, it wouldn’t have been any better. Seriously, it’s like a 5 minute long shot of her, like your mother, just sitting down off the cuff telling you the story of the little of the boy who cried wolf.

Craig: And she tells it like we’ve never heard it before.

Clip: Do you know the story about the boy who cried wolf? Are there any Indians in it? Look. Once upon a time, there was a little boy who lived in a village, and his father gave him the job of watching the sheep. And he said, Son, if you ever see any wolves, you must yell, Wolf! Wolf! And all the villagers will come to protect you. So the first day the little boy is on the job, he gets very, very bored. And he says, I think I’ll play a joke. And he yells, Wolf! Wolf! And all the villagers come running with their weapons, only to have the little boy going, He was only playing a joke. So the next day, little boy’s back out there protecting the sheep. And what do you think he does? He gets bored again and he yells, wolf, Wolf! And the villagers come from all over, only to have the little boy laugh in the face. So the 3rd day, the wolf really came. And just when he was ready to pounce on our little boy, the little boy yelled, wolf, wolf. And none of the villagers came to help him. And the wolf ate the little boy. He the wolf ate the little boy all up. Do you understand what I’m trying to say? Yes. I understand, Linda.

Craig: Oh, Todd. So much of this. Awful.

Todd: I I really think so much of this is just to pad out the running time. You know, I really

Craig: Oh, yeah. Okay. So that’s going on forever. Meanwhile, trick or treaters keep coming, which is, I guess, the only kind of cute part. Like, I when the door when the doorbell would ring or somebody would knock or something, I’m really like, oh, good. At least we’re gonna get to see some cute kids in funny Halloween costumes. And, like, that’s all it is. Like, it just oh, hold on a second. I have to go to the door again. And she does, and she passes out some candy. Okay. We can resume the plot now. Like, it’s just

Todd: Let’s remind everybody this is Halloween. Yeah.

Craig: Oh, and there’s no sense in going over all of the gags. He just pulls a 1,000,000 gags on her. And okay. Now here is the part where I would I got so confused. Like, all this is happening. We’re also cutting back and forth to the insane asylum where Malcolm keeps saying that he’s gonna break out.

Todd: Mhmm.

Craig: And eventually, he does. And the way that he does that is, he attacks a nurse. And as he’s attacking her, he snatches her wig off. Like like, lucky for him, she just happens to wear this wig. And, also, Malcolm, the guy who plays Malcolm is a big guy. Like

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: I don’t know. I mean, certainly, I I’m, like, 5 10. He’s certainly taller than me, 6 something probably, and big. Like, not a like a heavy fat guy, but like a big guy Yeah. That I wouldn’t wanna get into a fight with.

Clip: Mhmm.

Craig: And he he takes this nurse out. He doesn’t kill her, but he knocks her out or suffocates her momentarily or whatever. And then he puts on her clothes and escapes the mental institution in nurse drag with full with makeup and everything, and it it’s split up. It keeps, you know, jumping back and forth, but there’s this whole sequence where he’s running around the city and people keep cat calling him and Yeah. Hitting on him and calling him ma’am. Like, he is the butchest drag queen I’ve ever seen in my life, and they’re trying to play it off like he’s actually passing as a woman. Yeah. And he talks like this. It’s so dumb.

Todd: Yeah. It’s really bad. It’s really bad.

Craig: Eventually, he starts calling the house and, like, at first, he doesn’t say anything, and then he’s just kind of breathing heavy. And at one point, he says, I’m coming home, darling, or

Clip: I don’t know.

Craig: It’s so dumb. Whatever. And then It re yeah. It reminded me of New Year’s evil. Mhmm. I am evil.

Clip: Oh, god.

Todd: And then she just hangs up the phone.

Craig: And she thinks it’s the kid somehow because one in one of the tricks, the kid threw his voice so that it looked like the dummy was talking. So and she even has to lay that out. She’s, like, I know it’s you because you can even manipulate your voice. Like Mhmm. We get it, lady. Yeah. We get it. And you would think

Todd: that this movie is well well, first of all, there’s absolutely nothing scary going on here. There’s no tension. There’s no drama. There’s no nothing. And you would think that, again, like, we’re talking, like, is this just supposed to be a horror comedy? Is this supposed be this kind of cute thing? Are we supposed to take it seriously? But, they keep punctuating this every now and then they’ll make some of these scenes fake scary. Like, there’s this moment where she goes up into his bedroom because she hears something and she thinks that something’s going on. And suddenly the music gets all creepy. The light to the bedroom doesn’t work. And so she’s inching around the walls and by this poster. And then, oh, there’s a skeleton. There’s a skull on top of his dresser. Freaks her out a little bit. And then, she walks by, and, oh, the guillotine falls down. Oh, you know, it just freaks her out. This room is a small bedroom. You can walk to the door, open it up, and see everything in front of you Mhmm. Without having to poke or prod anything at all. You don’t even need to flip the light on. The light coming in through the door should be able to show you everything that is in this bedroom.

Craig: You could walk the perimeter of the room in, like, 12 steps. Like, it’s not big.

Todd: There’s nothing like this and and why is she poking and prodding around here like it’s so scary all of a sudden? It’s just one of those things and that’s one of the things too that happens later on, when the killer finally comes home. You know, there’s just these alternate moments where he’s running after with a knife going nuts and other moments where everything suddenly gets quiet and calm and sneaky for no apparent reason.

Craig: Oh, gosh. That that’s jumping kind of ahead, but it it’s worth noting. I mean, there’s one point you already mentioned the shed. Like, she was in the shed at one point. In the end, when the killer shows up and we’ll go back because there’s a couple things I wanna talk about. But there’s one point where they’re in the shed together, and she literally sneaks right past him. Like, they are centimeters away from each other, and we’re supposed to believe that he doesn’t notice.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: That she is moving right like like, you could feel their breath on one another. Like, it’s so stupid. Oh, but what I was trying to get you before was, you know okay. So he’s running around as a nurse and then eventually he find some bums and he makes them get undressed. And that’s all again, it goes on forever. It takes way too long. And the bum’s like, are you going to rape me? Like, oh my god. And so he steals their clothes and then right after this, it cuts to a scene that I thought something had went wrong. I thought all of a sudden I was in a different movie. I’m like, what is happening? Like, all of a sudden we’re in an editing room where these 2 women are editing horror films and they go off on this huge long discussion about how horror films are really made in the editing room and the director really doesn’t have all that much to do with it.

Clip: These horror pictures give me the willies. It’s something a movie, Andrea. Look, Connie. I love movies. I love editing. I love making movies more than I love eating. But these horror movies, they make me scared to drive home alone at night. Oh, I know what you mean. They don’t exactly turn me on. Do you think people will ever get tired of these films? No. I think people are always interested in the latest monster that will pop up. Or how much more blood can be spilled or how many more guts can be ripped out. And the producers will keep pouring them out. Yep.

Craig: I was like, did my link get messed

Clip: up or something? Like

Todd: No. And are they trying to get real meta here all of a sudden? And then then it actually shows us a clip from the movie that they’re editing which is even cornier and cheesier than the movie that we’re watching.

Craig: It’s like a Doctor Frankenstein movie and this mad scientist is putting together this this Todd. And he’s, like, alright. Give me the heart. Okay. I’m putting it in now. And then he’s like, okay, nurse. Give me head. And the nurse the nurse looks at him and he’s like, the head nurse. Like, oh my god. Like, so bad. But I guess it turns out that these women are friends of Linda’s. Yeah. Because they don’t find that until 5 minutes into the scene. I Linda calls them and I guess it’s so dumb and, like, it just comes out of left field. She’s like, oh, I have to go to an audition tomorrow, and they wanna see that tape that you said you’d edit for me. Is it done? And the girl’s like, yeah. It’s done. You can come get it. And she’s like, oh, I can’t because I’m babysitting, but I’m in this particular neighborhood. And the lady’s like, oh, that’s okay because that’s where my hairdresser lives and I was going there anyway, so I’ll bring it to you. You were going to your hairdresser in the middle of the night on Halloween night? I know. I was thinking the same thing. I’m sitting here with an angry look on my face because it’s so, like, Todd, it’s so stupid.

Todd: And we’re about an hour into the movie at this point,

Craig: by the way. Yeah. I mean, it’s getting close to over, really. Mhmm. Then okay. So Linda gets some more trick or treaters, and then she ominously leaves the door partially open. Dun, dun, dun.

Todd: Well, she leaves a door open partially open, and then the door that is partially open that everybody sneaks into is a completely different door.

Craig: I don’t know. Yeah. It’s so stupid. And then she then she sees a report on the TV about Malcolm escaping, and it’s the nurse who he attacked being interviewed.

Clip: It was a vicious and savage attack, the work of a maniac. He jumped me as I leaned to tuck him in. He threw me on the bed and then jumped on top of me and put it in my mouth. Put the gag in your mouth, you mean? Yes. Yes. He put this in my mouth, and I couldn’t cry out. He he tied me up and took off all my clothes.

Craig: You why? Why are you trying to be funny at this point?

Todd: Like I’m telling you, I I really think that this movie had a dual purpose that if this didn’t work as a horror movie, he had an whole other plan for it.

Craig: Maybe maybe he should have gone that direction. I might have enjoyed it more.

Todd: It would have been way more fun. God. The worst porn would have been way more fun than this movie.

Craig: And okay. And so then there’s a bunch of stuff running around the house. I have in my notes, why is there an abacus in Joan’s room?

Todd: A giant giant abacus on the table. It’s the

Craig: Is it just a is it just a decorative abacus or, like, does does Joan practice the art of abacus in her spare time? Oh, god. I don’t know.

Todd: Eventually, Malcolm returned to the house, and there’s lots of prowling going on.

Craig: And he prowls around the house for 5 minutes.

Todd: 5 minutes

Craig: room. And then then Linda’s friend, the video editor, shows up, and then she browse around the house for 10 minutes

Todd: In exactly the same way that he does. Each room in the same order, every shot for shot. It’s another one of those cases where hello? Is anybody here? Then you go to the bathroom. Hello? Is anybody here? Come on, Joan. Where are you? And then you just end up in the attic.

Craig: Yeah. Like, why? Like, even if even if she were home, like, are you really gonna go look for her in the attic? Like, leave the tape on the table at the door and go. But, no, she she looks through the whole house and, Malcolm is up in the attic and he stabs her, like, once in the back of the head. And then he she turns around and he’s like, wait a second. You’re not Joan.

Todd: Oh, my God. Oh, God. I couldn’t figure out why this movie is rated R for the life of me. I couldn’t No. I could not figure out. There’s language. There’s nothing like that. It’s not blood I mean, there’s some blood, but it’s not gory and in a sense that there’s any kind of gore effects. She falls he he stabs her from behind. You don’t see anything happen. You see her fall down. You see he’s holding a knife that has some blood on it and then you see a shot of her and her face has some blood splattered on it. That’s

Craig: Well, right. And he stabbed her in the back of the head and somehow that made blood splatter all over the front of her face and her boobs. Like, what? Yeah. But that but you’re absolutely right. That’s the only actual blood we see. There’s blood in other parts, but it’s fake and it’s intended to be fake because it’s it’s stupid, lame Christopher doing his dumb tricks, constantly biting on blood pellets and spitting out blood.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. That’s it. Yeah. I have no idea. Uh-huh. PG 13. Gosh. PG, it’s there there’s nothing to it. Mhmm. Okay. And so then it leads up to the end where Linda is in the house and Mal chases her for 5 minutes. And, like, it’s like he thinks that she’s Joan. And and at this moment, when when he first approaches her, he approaches her from behind, and she thinks it’s Christopher, you know, messing with his voice again or whatever. She starts to talk to him and he yells at her, don’t look at me. So she doesn’t for a while, And then he goes on this ridiculous monologue.

Todd: Clever of you, Joe. Very, very clever the way you put me out of the picture as soon as you were tired of me, except except I have a little punishment for you for what you’ve done to me.

Craig: Meanwhile, she gets out her compact and looks at him in the mirror and sees that it’s not the kid and just continues to sit there, like, get up, run, Like, there’s at least a couch between you. I mean, what are you waiting for?

Todd: Or, you know, at the very beginning, maybe say something like, I’m not Joan. Right. You know? Right. Like, act like a normal person would act in this situation. And their whole babysitter. The whole chase is just absolutely, also not inter interesting. You know, you’ve waited the whole movie for something like this to happen. And it is also insipid and boring. Yeah. He just runs after her. She runs out of the house, outside. And where does she go? She goes to the shed. And she runs into the shed, climbs up in the top of the shed. And somehow, in this tiny little shed, she’s able to lure him to the Todd, so she can jump down and she runs out of the shed. Okay. Again, she’s back outdoors and where does she go? She runs to the the car, which of course she gets into and the car won’t start. And he stands outside the car waving his knife around, saying a bunch of dumb things, but not actually doing anything until finally he tries to reach his hand in the window and, she gets out of the car and he comes through the car. So now, where does she run? Back into the frickin’ house. The minute she goes back into the house and runs upstairs, now, suddenly, he’s careful and quiet and cautious. And we get a good long 3 or 4 minute scene of him step by step, looking behind him and in front of him, creeping up the stairs.

Craig: My favorite part of this whole chase was that she had absolutely no concern for Christopher what whatsoever. I know. You’re on your own, kids. Sorry. Didn’t even

Todd: think about him. Didn’t even think about him.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, not that I would have I wouldn’t have cared either. I would have been throwing that kid in front of me that he’s just so obnoxious.

Todd: At some point, we’re supposed to believe that Christopher got got killed too because

Craig: Well, it’s a it’s a red it’s it’s a misleader. Yeah. Because he’s been so obnoxious all night and she’s been trying to get him to go to bed all night and he won’t. And then after Malcolm gets in the house, she finds him in bed and she’s like, oh, Hardyhar, you choked to death or something. And we’re and then we see that Malcolm was hiding in the shadows in his room. So we’re kind of led to believe that he’s been killed, but it’s not true. She ends up back in his room, and he wakes up and literally says, I must have dozed off. Is it still Halloween? Like and and she and she’s like, no. There’s a killer in the house, and he’s like, okay. And, oh, Todd, I don’t think that I have ever seen a more inept ending to a movie ever in my life. My word.

Todd: This was so bad.

Craig: They set up I don’t even know what their plan was. They’re they they set they, like, they pull the blade up on the guillotine, and she’s like, does this thing actually work? And he’s like, yeah. So they stand there. They she puts the guillotine between herself and the door. She holds up a fake gun pointing towards the door, like, through the guillotine, and eventually Malcolm starts, like, wriggling the doorknob and and is trying to get in, and they’re, like, waiting for him to get in. And stupid little Christopher is just standing there holding the rope on the guillotine with, like, a henchman’s mask on. And, eventually, the doorknob stops rattling and she says, wait a second. Where did he go? What happened? Where is he? He bursts in through the other door, which is on the other side of the room, and fully deliberately places his head in the guillotine. And they pull the blade, and it kills him. Yeah. What the fuck? Like

Todd: It was hilarious.

Craig: Oh my god. It was ridiculous.

Todd: It set aside the fact that none of it is convincing whatsoever. I mean, set set aside the fact that the the guillotine when it falls kinda bounces off of his neck. It doesn’t Yeah. Clearly not very heavy. It’s a magic trick.

Craig: Yeah. And he clear and he clearly has the same blood capsules that Christopher has and just bites on him and spits them out.

Todd: It’s not like his head falls off or we can see in, you know, anything like that. No. But but add to it the fact that he comes into the room and deliberately places his head onto that thing.

Craig: Well, like, I think that it would the blocking must have read you trip and fall into it. But no. Like, it it’s just he walks in and kind of pretends to stumble a little bit and then very carefully rests his head right in oh my god.

Todd: It is one for the books right there.

Clip: I’m sorry for what I did to you. I promise I won’t do it anymore. No more tricks. It’s alright. I have to call the police.

Todd: And we get this long shot of Christopher, and his face kind of changes.

Craig: Yeah. He picks up the knife.

Todd: Picks the knife up and kind of looks at it with a bit of a smile. The next shot is the same shot we’ve seen of her over and over again every time she’s talking on the phone. So, now, she’s crying and she has a gun next to her. And so, she has come downstairs, sat deliberately on the sofa, gotten a good cry in, so that and then, so she can reach over and pick up the phone to call the police. She’s like, hello, police. Christopher creeps up behind her and raises the knife and freeze frame. Yeah. Yeah. He stabs her in the back of the neck.

Craig: Are you kidding me? As well, it is are you kidding me, but I saw it coming a mile away. You know, like, as soon as he picks up the knife and smiles, I’m like, oh, okay. So, you know, just like his father, he’s a psychopath too. Alright. I mean, like, I don’t know, shades of Friday 13th, I guess, but it was I don’t know. Todd, it was just so dumb.

Todd: I mean, this is this kind of this one between this one and Don’t Go Into the Woods, you know, it’s hard for me.

Craig: I mean and and Don’t Go Into the Woods was a worse movie because it wasn’t even as well made. This movie as far as, shooting yeah. As far as shooting is concerned, it’s it’s far and away not the worst movie I’ve ever seen. But as far as plot and even the acting, like, oh, Todd. I I get I’ve seen worse acting to be sure, but it’s bad here and the the dialogue is bad, the premise is stupid. You know, a lot of the times I’ll say, you know, it’s it’s it’s dumb, but, you know, that can be fun. Bad movies can be fun. It’s not even fun. No. It’s boring. Yeah. It’s boring and pointless and, Todd, I was looking at my watch. I was looking at Facebook. I’m, like, Jesus, is this over yet? Come on. Don’t watch this movie. I watched it in 3 separate sessions over Oh, man.

Clip: I -I

Todd: was like, oh, Todd, I have to finish this movie. That’s how I was for the last half hour. I gotta finish this movie because we have to talk about it for a stupid podcast. Yeah. The sacrifices we make for our audience, you know.

Craig: I know. I mean Yeah. It’s a it’s a labor of love. So the only other interesting thing

Todd: I can say about this has nothing to do with the movie, but everything to do with Gary Graver. So the rest of the story is Gary Graver himself ended up with Orson Welles’ Oscar for Citizen Kane. He claims that Orson Welles gave it to him, and it was used as a prop in this last movie that he was shooting. And after they shot that scene, he just handed it to him and said, here, you hold on to this. And he took it as, he was giving it to me as a gift and as as part of payment, you know, for the working that he was doing on the movie. Later on, Orson Welles is, I think either widow or daughter, was was looking for the Oscar and couldn’t find it. She wrote to the Academy and got a replacement Oscar sent to her. And there are all these rules about how Oscars

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: Can and can’t be Todd.

Craig: Or Yeah. You can’t. I don’t I don’t think you can even give them away. No. If if you you have to return them to the academy if you’re getting rid of it.

Todd: Well, he tried to sell it. He put it up for for sale, and she found out about it. And they got in this big lawsuit, which he eventually lost. So he ended up having to give the Oscar back to her. And then later, like, a year later, she really needed money. She found some loophole in all this and she ended up selling the Oscar herself. And the reason she was able to do it was in all the agreement that they signed with the Academy, it all references the person who the Oscar is given to. And since she was not the person who actually the Oscar was given to, the judge in that case that the academy brought against her said, you know, your agreement doesn’t really work here. And so she was able to sell it. So this guy, you know, got wrapped up in all this. Really interesting bit of film history. And then, even though he died in 2004, what happened this year, but this film that Orson Welles did got made. The Other Side of the Wind. I was totally unaware of this. Some Kickstarter went up last year, some editor that I guess, had some relationship with Orson Welles or somehow, you know, everybody sort of felt would would be capable of finishing this movie, which Orson Welles had, I think he had edited 45 minutes of it and then left extensive notes and a 1000 hours of footage. They did this Kickstarter to get this movie finalized. The Kickstarter was successful. This guy went to work. And as of August on Netflix, it was released. And so you are able to see all of Gary Graver’s wonderful cinematography and Orson Welles’ vision. And they say it’s quite good and probably quite accurate to what he wanted, up on Netflix. So if you’re going to just go see a Gary Graver’s film, I would suggest one of 2 things. I would suggest go go see right now, go to Netflix and see The Other Side of the Wind, which is a serious piece of film history that we nobody ever thought they would ever see. Or, you could rent The Erotic Adventures of Annie Fanny. Yeah. Or, home, home but not alone. And I’m gonna make it a point. I’m gonna make it a point to go see all of them. Just to make sure.

Craig: Yeah. Well, you should. And you can report back to me things.

Todd: Well, thanks again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We are 1 week away from Halloween, and we promise you that the next

Clip: week’s Halloween movie

Todd: hopefully won’t well, we promise you won’t be quite this inept. Even though we haven’t seen it, we know Rob Zombie makes some pretty good movies and Rob Zombies 31 is going to be our release on October 31st this year. So please stick around for that. Until next time, I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

This made-for-TV movie event from the 80’s starred some well-known faces, but it hasn’t remained well-known. You probably missed it when it first aired, and it enjoyed an extremely short release on home video and DVD that you probably missed too. But don’t miss our discussion about this film that, despite its many flaws, had some good moments and didn’t fail to put us in the Halloween spirit.

Oh, and you can watch it on YouTube here.

Episode 144, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Today, we are in week 2 of our Halloween extravaganza, our countdown to my favorite holiday of the year, and I think yours as well. Right? Yep. So as normal during this time of the year, we try to pick some movies that are Halloween themed or at least are somewhat appropriate for the holiday. And the one that we picked today is kind of special for me. This is a 1985 TV movie called The Midnight Hour. Had you ever heard of this before, Craig?

Craig: You know, it’s funny. I didn’t think that I had, and, I started watching it and I was just positive that I had never seen it before. But I think I must have because it just seemed really familiar. Like, I didn’t remember specific plot points, but I I didn’t remember.

Todd: It came out in 1985. And I remember this movie very specifically because I didn’t get to see the whole thing. I was I would have been about 8 years Todd, 1985 and, I had This came on TV. You don’t remember. We we talk about TV movies a lot. Yeah. And, TV movies are like a thing. Right? They’re usually a big event. The network is advertising them well in advance. This movie even though it’s a Halloween themed movie and it came out on November 1st for some strange reason, the day after Halloween. And I remember sitting down to start to watch this movie. And I saw the first part of it before the first set of commercials, but it came on late. And it was past my bedtime. And so, we had a VCR set up to record television, which, you know, we used to do a lot back then.

Craig: Yep.

Todd: And my dad started recording it. He said, you I’m not gonna allow you to stay up to see this whole movie, but I’ll record it for you so you can see it in the morning. And I said, okay. And so, what did he do? As soon as the first commercial came, he sent me to bed and we hit pause on the recorder. This is another something we used to do. Right? We would Yep. We would hit pause when the commercials came on. As soon as the commercials were off, we unpause it so that we could have a recording without commercials. Right. And I woke up in the morning, and I found out that my dad had never unpaused the tape.

Craig: So it happened all the time.

Todd: It happens a lot. Right? And I was so mad. I was like, oh, because that was it, man. I couldn’t see it. There’s no way. Right? There’s no way you Craig see this anymore. It came on TV once. I think it was broadcast, a couple more times later, a few years later, but this movie didn’t get a lot of airplay. And actually, was was released on, VHS, back, in the late eighties and once I think on DVD in the early nineties. But those those were not big releases and they’re fairly rare right now. So this movie is is out of print and it’s hard to find unless you have the Internet. Right? And and there it’s on YouTube. That’s where you can watch it right now. It’s very easy to find on YouTube in 4 or 5 different different ways. So, if you end up liking what we have to say about this movie or at least curious about it, you can Google The Midnight Hour 1985 and you’ll find any version you want of it up on YouTube and you can watch along with us for the Halloween.

Craig: Yeah. And and as is not often the case, the quality of the video on YouTube is actually really good. So it’s there if you wanna see it. Yeah.

Todd: It must have been taken straight from the DVD release or something. Yeah. But, anyway, yeah, this was an ABC special. And as such, with these big event TV movies, it has a ton of stars in it. You’ve got Sherry Belafonte, who is Harry Belafonte’s daughter, LeVar Burton, and you know, not not long off of roots is in this. Peter Delaize, who I thought might be related to Dom Delaize, and he is. He’s Dom Delaize’s son. Oh. Yeah. He played Mitch, the football jockey player guy in this. There’s a woman named Didi Pfeiffer in here who’s Michelle Pfeiffer’s younger sister who plays Mary. Know that either. Yeah. It’s crazy. And a couple of our favorites, Kevin McCarthy is in this. He plays Judge Crandall. Yeah. Dick Van Patten, who is completely recognizable, by anybody of that era. Mhmm. He was a pretty popular comedian on, like, the was he on the Carol Burnett Show?

Craig: I don’t know. I remember him from Spaceballs.

Todd: Oh, yeah. Of course. He plays the dentist, in this. There’s just a bunch of them. Even Wolfman Jack, who was at the time a very popular DJ that was syndicated around the country, who had a very distinctive voice. His voice is in this coming on the radio. Actually, the movie features a lot of music. And so we are all constantly hearing the radio playing whether it’s in the car or whether it’s in the background at a party or something And it gives them an excuse to put in all of these songs that are sort of themed, mildly themed horror Halloween or somewhat are appropriate for the movie.

Craig: Yeah. I loved the music in this movie. Like, every time a new song came on, I’m like, oh, I love this song. Like, of course, you’ve got, The Midnight Hour, but then, like, Hey There, Little Red Riding Hood, Bad Moon Rising, The Smiths, How Soon is Now is used in a really awesome scene in a really good way. Like, there’s just such good music. Like, this would have been one when I was a kid. I would have raced to Best Buy or whatever and looked for the soundtrack because it such good music.

Todd: Oh, it’s so true. No. The music is great. Now now the I would say that the score is terrible. Whenever they’re not playing popular music and there’s a score underlying the action, I thought it was almost gratingly bad, but it was really nice that they worked all that in. And I feel like it was I I I guess Yeah. I guess just they’re trying to appeal to a mass audience with this movie. I feel like that’s one of the big ways they’re doing it is putting in all of these what we would consider oldies, oldie hits. A lot of Motown and stuff that is tangentially related to the the Halloween theme or the action that’s going on on the screen right now, which also gives them an excuse to get wolf man jack in there. So, yeah. It’s it’s it’s an interesting mix. The movie was directed by Jack Bender who did Child’s Play 3. Mhmm. And, it was written by a guy named William Blaich, and he didn’t really write a whole lot of I mean, he’s got 15 credits on IMDB. Most of them are TV movies. None of them, aside from this one, I’ve ever seen. I guess, there was a TV, series at one time in the mid nineties called Poltergeist The Legacy, and he wrote a bunch of episodes for that. But, and and then the star, the guy named Phil who we follow through most of the movie is Lee Montgomery. Did you recognize him at all?

Craig: I did. It’s really funny because I recognized him and then I I clicked on his name, on IMDB, and I it took me to his page, and I’m like, have I already looked him up? And I realized I had because a, an episode that we’ve taped but haven’t aired yet, at least as of this recording Right. Was over burnt offerings And he was, the kid, David in burnt offerings.

Todd: Yeah. So it’s it’s nice to see he got want to do a little bit more stuff. Yeah. Oh, this movie. I think this movie is kind of a mish mash of things. It’s clearly, for network television, which means it can’t get too graphic. It can’t get Todd even to, you know, adult in the themes or anything like that. So you can’t really watch this kind of movie, especially with these types of stars in them, and expect to be getting a true, like, horror movie that’s gonna scare you, quite honestly. These people just didn’t do those movies. So instead what you’re getting is more of a comedy horror that’s in the spirit of Halloween. In fact, it takes place on Halloween night. It plays like a kind of movie that’s really trying to appeal to a broad audience, I think, you know, in every piece of it.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. I I think maybe it’s worth saying at the beginning that the movie did not get good reviews and critics have not been kind to it, you know, even still, you know, it’s talked about in a lot of retrospectives and documentaries about horror movies and things that it it generally gets a pretty bad rap And part of the reason that it’s been criticized is because of kind of what you alluded to that it’s kind of a hodgepodge of things, like, on one hand it kind of feels like it’s going for family friendly fare, but then there’s also some relatively brutal violence. Some parts that I would think might be a little too scary for young kids. Especially in the beginning, it’s set up very much like a family movie. Like, it starts out with this kid who’s rolling newspapers. He’s a newspaper delivery boy, and he’s on the corner of Elm Street and some other street, Maple or something. You know, I don’t know if this is the cut. You know, I don’t know how it would have played on TV, but it’s weird because it, like, it shows him doing this, and then he puts a baseball card in the spokes of his, bike. And then it’s like he he spins the wheel, and it cuts him, and then it cuts really fast to the title

Todd: Yeah. Hard. That was so weird.

Craig: And then it it was. And then it cuts right back. Like, it was just really abrupt. Like, okay. Well, that was odd. It’s, like, whatever.

Todd: Wolfman Jack going,

Craig: the midnight hour. Yeah. Yeah. Just, like, in one And then it’s over. And then it cuts back to the kid, and he’s, like, cut himself and he’s bleeding on his newspapers or whatever. But then he goes all around town delivering papers, and it’s just, you know, that perfect, quaint town that you see in so many of these kind of family friendly horror movies. Like, I wouldn’t be surprised. I didn’t find much information about this movie, which I was surprised because there are so many big names in it. I thought, surely, there would be stories, you know, from this movie, but I couldn’t find much of anything. But I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the same set as, like, Back to the Future or Gremlins or Something Wicked This Way Comes. Like, it’s it’s just that, you know, that idyllic kind of square, you know, downtown, where he’s delivering the papers Todd, the barber and the the cop and, you know, just all of these down home trope kind of characters. And then he kind of gets out into the suburb kind of area and is doing it out there too.

Todd: I I would I would go one step further, and I would I actually wanna go back and, do this comparison sometime. I swear that this is a direct rip off of the intro to something Wicked This Way Comes. Right down -Yeah. It’s really similar. -Down to, like, the musical score. I mean, even the music sounds like the intro to that. And he’s he’s tossing his papers, and he’s going around the town. And like you said, there’s the barber who steps out, who does that. There’s the guy who’s, like, outside of, I guess, the cigar store setting a wooden Indian out, which is just it is so specific. Yeah. That it’s this has gotta be a direct rip off of that of that opening bit. Something like there’s no question. It’s crazy. And I don’t think this is the first time in this movie when you’re gonna see an almost direct rip off of of another horror film in here.

Craig: Sure. Sure. Absolutely. But that’s the thing too. Like, it really feels like kind of a hodgepodge. And and as we get into it, we’ll talk more about that. But, we meet, our main character, Phil, like you said, played by Lee Montgomery, and he’s this teen boy, this nice looking boy, but he’s, like, the nice guy. And his dad is the town dentist played by Dick Van Patten who, you know, has a really small role, but he’s so memorable and so recognizable that it’s kinda, you know, just a little treat of a cameo, of him.

Todd: It’s like for all the older people to go,

Craig: oh, cute, Dick Van Patten. Yeah. Right. Right. And, then we go to the high school where we meet this group of friends, this central group of friends. Melissa who’s played by Sherry Belafonte. Now you said she’s Harry Belafonte’s daughter. Is that right?

Clip: Yep.

Craig: She’s really recognizable. She’s this beautiful exotic woman of color and and I just recognized her, but then I looked at her stuff and I don’t know. It wasn’t anything that jumped out at me, but she’s just got such a recognizable face that I guess if I’ve seen her anywhere I remember her.

Todd: It’s funny because at first for a brief flinting moment I thought that she was, the same woman who played opposite Michael Jackson in thriller. And then I thought no, no, no that’s definitely not her. But when she’s in full make up and the woman in Michael Jackson’s thriller is in full make and dancing and stuff like that, actually, they look kind of similar if if I recall.

Craig: Yeah. It makes sense because I read that the the makeup or costume people who did Thriller also did a lot of the work on this movie and you can see it. Yeah. It there’s a lot of similarities. And then you’ve got Vinnie played by LeVar Burton. I remember LeVar Burton from Reading Rainbow. I loved Reading Rainbow

Clip: when I was a kid. Me too.

Craig: I’m such a nerd. But he’s young. You know, I I don’t believe for a second that he was a teenager, but, you know, young, whatever. And then Mitch who’s the jockey one played by Peter DeLuise, and Mary who I guess is kinda the pretty popular one who, Phil has a crush on and she’s played by Didi Pfeiffer. And it’s these 4 friends, and there’s gonna be this big Halloween party. And Phil is kind they’re all going together, but Phil’s kinda trying to get up the nerve to ask Mary if she’ll be, like, his date. And it’s just goofy high school stuff in this, like, I don’t know, classroom, and their regular teacher doesn’t show up, and instead, this substitute teacher, miss Jensen, shows up. And the boys are well, all of them really are fawning over how beautiful she is. I mean, I thought she was pretty, but, like, she didn’t make my jaw drop or anything like these guys. Like, you would think that miss America had walked into the room or something. Yeah. And then we get the, the backstory, I guess. Phil gives this Halloween report randomly Yeah. With slides, And it’s, like, talking about the this reminded me of Hocus Pocus. Like, let’s give the backstory of our town’s history with Halloween.

Todd: And, of course, it’s, you know, unique and, apropos to the occasion.

Craig: And and, apparently, people are very rooted in this town because generations and generations ago, like, all these young kids are like their ancestor or their descendants.

Todd: They’re all related.

Clip: In the early years of the town, Nathaniel Grenville, my great great great great grandfather, was minister and constable general. Anyhow, these guys back then believed in all this stuff about witches. And as it so happened, one of the most powerful witches who ever lived came from right here in Pitchford Cove or Pitchfork Cove as it got to be known because of what happened. And this witch was Lucinda, Grenville’s slave, and the great great great great grandmother of Melissa Kennedy. Great. Great. I know. I know. We all know. Was that old black magic? Thank you.

Craig: And she put a curse on the Todd. And the curse on the town was that all of the dead would rise and all of the demons from hell would rise. Phil’s ancestor, he defeated the witch and, you know, got rid of all of the living dead and and the demons and whatnot. And so, you know, there’s there’s your back story. But in in his report, Phil talks about how there’s a museum. There’s a a town witchcraft museum, and in the museum is a exhibit where they have the witch hunter and the witch, and they’re wearing, you know, the authentic clothes that they actually wore back in the day. So these kids decide, oh, won’t it be awesome if we break in and steal these outfits to use for our Halloween costumes for the party? And so that’s what they do.

Todd: They do. And it’s such a great little scene. They’re all, you know, in broad daylight in the middle of the park hiding behind a statue, totally obvious. Yeah. And waiting, you know, for the museum to close, and the woman leaves. And then a guy with a bunch of dogs pulls up. And I guess he’s the night watchman or something that

Craig: I guess. I didn’t really get that. They said something like, I get the police probably hired him to patrol because it’s Halloween. Okay. I didn’t know that police forces, like, outsourced goons, but whatever.

Todd: Especially dudes like this. He’s got his pickup truck. He’s, like, chewing tobacco or something. He just looks like a total, yeah, interesting guy, but he’s got 2 big dogs. And, I guess he goes in somewhere and comes out to feed the dog something which gives them the cover to go into the back and just break in through the window. It’s so dumb. I mean, it’s it’s really dumb. Honestly, a lot of this movie is really really kinda lame. But, then Yeah. Anyway, they come come in and they take the costumes off of these people and put them on and then they decide to go down into the archives and the archives is like a dungeon. It’s like the walls are stone and these are the worst kept archives in in the country, really. Because everything’s covered in cobwebs and just sort of randomly thrown across shelves and stuff. It reminded me of, you know, what Elvira might have found in her aunt’s house Yeah. When she goes in and not really archives. And and, obviously, they’re not keeping good track of this stuff because, they pull out a big a big trunk and blow the dust off of it. And they say, hey, this is the Cavendish coat of arms. And they open it up and they find more trinkets and things in there. And one of the things that, is in there also is a smaller box. And they decide, oh, well, let’s just take the whole trunk out. We’ll throw all the costumes in there. And so they decide to take the whole trunk out of there. And they’re acting like they discovered it, like like nobody knows about this stuff. Right. Okay. So they managed to sneak this out and back across the street. And there’s some really terrible day for night during the sequence. Where in one direction, it looks like broad daylight, in the other direction, it looks like day for night, and then in the 3rd direction, it actually looks like nighttime. And they drive off. And this being a Halloween movie, what Todd they decide? Well, before we go to this Halloween party, we need to find a place to change. And what better place to change into these costumes than the local cemetery? Oh, yeah. That’s a great idea. And so they pull up to the cemetery. They come out, and they change into their costumes.

Craig: And I love this cemetery. Like, this cemetery is, you know, what this old decrepit cemetery right out of, you know, a ghost story. Like like, the the ground is, like, steaming. Like, it It’s like a

Todd: burning leaves or something.

Craig: Yeah. There must have been you know, they must have had, like, pipes under the ground just shooting steam out, like, because it was everywhere. And, it was it was funny. I mean, it was very Halloween y. It it felt more like like you go to a haunted graveyard that somebody is set up. It didn’t look like an actual cemetery. No. Not at

Todd: the slightest. And there’s so much of that in this movie where it’s just kinda silly,

Clip: actually. Well, you say that, and

Craig: I get what you mean because it is because it’s totally unrealistic. But it’s a Halloween movie. And, you know, I I felt

Todd: like they Sets a mood.

Craig: Yeah. It it did. It sets a mood. Yeah. I I don’t think that they were necessarily going for strict realism here. You know, they it was haunted housey. It was haunted graveyard. You know, it was I don’t know. I I liked it. I thought it was atmospheric and fun.

Todd: It’s like a kid’s movie. Really?

Craig: Yeah. You

Todd: know? Yeah. It’s kinda what it is. And so that’s how it plays out. And so that’s part of the disconnect I think we’ll talk about a little later. You know, I’m not gonna be too harsh on this movie because it is a nice little Halloween flick. So anyway, they, go to the cemetery and, they take open the thing and he finds a smaller box and he opens it up. He says, hey, look at this box. And again, acting like nobody’s ever seen this before.

Clip: Mhmm.

Todd: And I guess Todd has because there’s a little ring in there, that must have belonged to, I guess, now this belonged to Cavendish, the

Craig: woman Well, no. It was no. It was, Phil’s, aunt Cesar.

Todd: Phil’s ancestor with Nathaniel.

Craig: Green something. Okay. I don’t Greenville or something like that is his last name.

Todd: So Mitch puts on the ring and then they find a scroll that is sealed with a wax seal which is the impression of this ring. Yeah. As they decide to open it up and guess what’s on there is some kind of ancient curse And conveniently, since Melissa is the ancestor, of the woman who gave the curse, she thinks it’s appropriate that she should read the scroll. So she stands there in a very dramatic scene and reads, the scroll. And

Craig: It’s funny. It’s super melodramatic, but she does a really good job. Like

Clip: Nagios Mundebor Desmagon. I invoke your powers. Come heed my bidding on this night of nights, the eve of Sommehain, all hallows eve. Spirits of darkness, I command you to rise from your graves. At Lava Biss Saga May, All manner of demons. I implore your release from eternal torment.

Craig: I love it. It’s like people in horror movies have never seen a horror movie before. Like, don’t go into the cemetery and read some ancient incantation out loud. Just don’t do it. Like, you are just begging for trouble.

Todd: Well and and Phil recognizes that as soon as it’s finished. And he says, guys, I think that was a bad idea. And they’re like, why? And he says, didn’t anyone listen to my report today? And they all go, no. No.

Clip: Which I thought was the best set of

Todd: lines in the whole movie.

Clip: It was funny.

Todd: They leave the cemetery, and immediately, as you would expect, all of the dead start to arise. And this was total thriller rip off. And I guess I was thinking this had to be in the wake of I mean, Thriller came out in 80 2 or 83, but then

Craig: Oh, like that.

Todd: The music video really caught on, and was like the making of Thriller and the music video got really popular even a little bit later than that.

Craig: Oh, yeah. It was huge.

Todd: It was it was, like, played on TV, and then you could get a VHS copy of it. My sisters and I used to watch it all the time. Uh-huh. And that would have been around this time. So it’s clear they were it’s clear this movie was capitalizing or or trying to capitalize off of the popularity of that by really putting in this element. But it’s so funny because it’s so disjointed and kind of nonsensical, really. There’s a killer, I guess a serial killer that they kind of did a brief mention of, called Victor Nestor, who, it takes us into his coffin, and he’s kind of decrepit. And he wakes up, and he’s pushing against it, and he comes out of his grave. And then, it goes to this woman, Lucinda’s Craig, and she looks like she died an hour ago. Right. It’s not at all decayed or anything, and she just comes out.

Craig: I guess it was because she was a witch. I I don’t know. I mean, she she is the witch, you know, like, the one that unleashed the original curse. She’s Melissa’s great great grandmother or whatever. Mhmm. And then everybody starts to come out. And, you know, it is. I mean, it’s just like thriller. I mean, and as thriller was inspired by Night of the Living Dead. So there are definitely, you know, hints of Night of the Living Dead there Todd, but all of these, you know, corpses coming out of their graves in different levels of decay, and they’re, you know, wearing interesting costumes. And it’s funny because it’s just it’s so random. Like, there’s a there’s a a dead little person that runs around. There’s, like a werewolf guy.

Clip: Werewolf for no good reason.

Craig: But and then one of them who rises from the dead is just this cute cheerleader who also looks like she died maybe half an hour ago. And then just Todd, like, you know, the whole cemetery wakes up and and and starts heading towards town.

Todd: That’s right.

Craig: And then we get to see it cuts back to Phil’s house, and he’s gone home to put on his costume. And he does, like, this whole big reveal to his family. And I don’t even know. Was he supposed to be somebody specific? Because if he was, I didn’t get the reference.

Clip: I

Todd: don’t think so. I it just it he just looked like a new wave pop trendy Asian.

Craig: Or yeah. He’s got, like, this weird angular, like, blue and gray makeup almost like, you know, David Bowie esque kind of, full face makeup. And he’s wearing this, like, sparkly tensile wig and he’s got, this big cape, but everybody’s really impressed.

Todd: So It’s so eighties. Yeah.

Craig: The whole movie is very eighties, which Yeah. I love, of course.

Todd: Me too. And his sister

Clip: says Bodacious.

Craig: Oh, it’s funny. And then he goes to leave to go to the party, and he drives this awesome car. It’s like a Cadillac convertible, like a 19 fifties Cadillac convertible. Conveniently. Yeah. And he goes to back out, and we see that one of these dead people is, like, shambling down the street. And he actually hits like, when he’s backing out of his driveway, he hits the guy with his car. He’s like, oh, I’m so sorry. And the guy’s like yes. But I I love you know, they do this in Halloween movies all the time. Of course, the dead can rise and just walk around the streets, and nobody notices. It’s Halloween. You know? Like, it’s just really good costumes.

Todd: Everywhere. Yeah. It does a good job of setting up the Halloween spirit. Nobody thinks twice about it. This is this is who I will call comic relief zombie.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. There are several. The little the little person is is totally comic relief Todd, and he’s really funny. Yeah. I I laughed at several of their parts.

Todd: Yeah. You know, at this point, that this isn’t gonna be a totally serious movie. This is probably your first clue. Aside from the hokiness of the first part, you know that they’re not gonna go for really spooky at this point, which is good. I mean, it’s good l waited so long because that would have really disappointed 8 year old Todd if I had actually seen this. This was the point at which they all rose up from their graves, and, started stumbling out was then when it went to its first commercial break. And, so I didn’t see anything from that point on and, you know, I was expecting a really scary movie. So I would have been a little disappointed at Comic Relief Zombies.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. It’s really not a scary movie. I mean, there are some minorly scary parts, but

Clip: Mhmm.

Craig: Not really. The next thing we see is Judge Crandall, who is Mitch’s dad. He’s given his kid a time because he knows that he stole the costume, and he’s Kevin McCarthy is really funny. He’s in a lot of movies. The thing I always remember him from, and this is not a particularly popular movie, but Innerspace.

Todd: Did you Oh, yeah.

Craig: See that movie?

Todd: That’s a fantastic movie.

Craig: I love that movie, and he was the villain in that. And and so I immediately recognized him from that, but he’s just playing it. He he’s playing it drunk and mean. And, so he’s he, you know, he he smacks his kid around a little bit and Mitch, finally leaves. And then Phil meets on his way to the party, he meets the dead cheerleader, and has a little Todd. Yeah, of course, because she looks just like Sandy from Grease.

Todd: And acts like her too.

Craig: Uh-huh. It’s it’s so funny because, like, he sees her, and then he just has, like, a little fantasy moment, like, where they just, like, stand and hold each other as a train goes by. Like, it’s so random. But then he he tells her there’s gonna be this big party and she should come, but she’s like, no. I I wanna go home. And, so he heads on, to the party. Yep. I don’t know. I mean, I feel like we’re going through it step by step, which is fine because there’s the thing the only thing that really bothered me about this movie was that the plot is really paper thin.

Clip: Like Yeah.

Craig: Kids rise, the dead the dead run around causing havoc. They have to figure out how to shut it down. Like, that’s it. Like

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: Everything everything else is just extra.

Todd: And there’s a lot of that extra. Like, the most important parts of the dead rising and then having to shut the dead down are just kind of bunched up at the beginning and bunched up at the last, you know, 20 minutes.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: And I think the rest of the middle, it kinda drags a little bit because it’s just high school kids doing high school stuff essentially. It’s there they go to this big party and this big party, of course, is that her old, we Todd it, it’s at Melissa’s home, which has been in the family for generations, right? -Right. -Presumably, I guess the idea is that presumably it used to be her great aunt, but it couldn’t have been because she was a slave, right, at that time.

Craig: So Yeah. I don’t know. It doesn’t really make any sense.

Todd: Anyway, yes. So they’re all gathering at this party and just a bunch of hijinks happen. And some of the demons and ghouls show up at the party, but they’re partying along with everybody else, hardy, hard

Craig: And dancing and yeah.

Todd: Making out at one point.

Craig: Yeah. It’s and and that’s funny. I actually enjoyed that. It was I don’t I don’t wanna go so far as to say it was clever because it’s not like it’s entirely unique, but it is funny to watch. And then there are also just kind of these random well, not entirely random, but there

Clip: are these violent scenes like, at one point

Craig: the judge is again, he goes to take his trash out and he gets killed by that serial killer, Vernon Nestor or whatever his name was, who apparently the judge had convicted, and so that’s why he was dead. And so it makes sense that he would come back for revenge. But there are these little like, I expected this guy because they make kind of a big deal out of him in the beginning, the serial killer. They make kind of a big deal out of him in the beginning, and then he kills the judge, but then that’s it. Like

Todd: You never see him again. You never even see him again. Yeah. It’s like he was getting his revenge, I guess, maybe that one time, and then he’s gonna stumble off. You’re right. It seemed like he would be a big, like a crucial, villain, you know, in this movie. But no, he just kills the judge and that’s it. And then later on, the judge turns into a zombie himself. Right. I mean and then the wolf man shows up randomly in a downtown barbershop, and the extra cop goes to investigate the dude with the dogs. Again, very convenient. And, he gets killed by him. And later on, the dogs come back and see their master down, and they start licking him and stuff. But he has turned into a werewolf himself. Is that part of werewolf lore that you turn into a werewolf? Is it like vampires? I don’t think so. Yeah.

Craig: No. It is. It is. Yeah. If you if you get bitten, but not killed, then, yeah, you’re infected and you become a werewolf.

Todd: That’s why this movie feels so Halloween y is because it’s got a kind of a monster mash quality to it.

Craig: Yes.

Todd: They’re sticking all of the different monsters in here. It turns out Lucinda is is a vampire.

Craig: Right. Which is kind of random, And she shows up at the party. I kind of liked that mash up of the different, monsters. And one of the characters, Phil, even says something about it at one point, like, late in the movie when they kinda figure out what’s going on. He’s like, okay. So the dead are rising, but what the heck about, like, vampires and werewolves? And Sandy’s like, the incantation said and all the demons of hell, like, obviously.

Todd: Well, there’s only 1 vampire in hell and only 1 adult in hell. Yeah.

Craig: Well, whatever. There is some funny things about the movie that are just so random, like, the hot substitute teacher is at the party. What?

Todd: Yeah. Like,

Craig: it’s weird. And she keeps calling herself a chaperone and then every every 10 seconds, she’s like, I need some more wine, please. And at one point, one of the girls is like,

Clip: she’s the best chaperone ever.

Todd: It’s not like she’s letting them drink wine. No. There’s surprisingly little alcohol being drunk by any of the minors in this whole movie. I didn’t see a drop of it, probably because it’s a TV movie.

Craig: I guess.

Todd: There’s some things there’s some things that they had to do, of course, besides make it just a little lighter for the movie. And I thought that one of the things they did really nice is even though you say that these scenes are kinda violent, they’re not graphic, but they find ways to imply what they can’t show.

Craig: Mhmm.

Todd: You know, when the judge gets strangled, there’s it’s all kind of the classic shadow on the wall. Yeah. You see that happening. But it goes on for a little bit when Lucinda attacks her great great great granddaughter Melissa. Melissa’s looking for wine in the in the cellar. And, of course, this house has a wine cellar with, you know, that’s that again looks like a dungeon. And all of the wine has been there since the beginning of time. It has dust all over.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: And Lucinda just comes down there and, appears again. And and Melissa’s not really bothered by it.

Clip: My dad will probably kill me by taking anything too old or too valuable or whatever. I don’t know what to take. Just something to quench the thirst. But what? There’s so many kinds. There’s only one thing that can quench the thirst. The unbearable thirst. The thirst of the centuries to be passed on forever.

Todd: And then, eventually, she attacks her. You know? The big fangs come out, and she and the movie goes into slow motion. And while she’s struggling against her and they’re just kind of rocking back and forth as she attacks her, but they’re not showing any blood. What they are doing is they’re bursting like the wine bottles are bursting in the background and the corks are shooting off of them. And so, this red wine is spraying all over the room. I thought that was kinda clever, you know. It’s a clever way to make it a little gory without actual gore.

Craig: Dude, I loved that scene. Like, I thought it was so good. And part of it was because of the music in the background, which I’ve already mentioned, but it it’s The Smith’s How Soon is Now, and it’s just the instrumental part of it. It’s just so atmospheric and it works so well for this scene. And in a movie that’s really overall very cheesy, and and the acting is fine. Like, it’s it’s not gonna win any it’s not gonna win any awards, but it’s it’s fine. And it’s the, you know, the lady who plays Lucinda, I would say is perhaps one of the weaker actresses in the movie, but the way that it’s shot, I don’t know, like it’s sensual and it’s violent without being, as you said, you know, super gory, but the imagery of the wine slowly spilling out onto the ground and splashing everywhere and, you know, just everything from the time that she starts biting is just kind of in these tones of red and black and, oh, gosh. I I really I thought that was just a really really strong scene in what is overall a relatively mediocre movie, but I wanted to go back and watch it again. I’m, like, oh, that was so good.

Todd: I totally it’s it’s definitely the best best shot scene in the movie. I thought it was the most effective one. I I agree with you. And and we get something kind of like this again, and it’s not that dramatic, but, well, what happens is that Melissa now, you know, is starting to pick off people 1 by 1. So So we’re starting to see all these different friends succumb. You know, her boyfriend, Vinny, who’s played by LeVar Burton, she bites him. And this is all happening at the party, you know, so nobody really notices. That’s kind of the thing, and she brings the jock upstairs, Mitch, and plays around with him a little bit on the roof. And Mitch’s dad’s car comes tearing through the lawn and crashes across the street. And Mitch is like, oh, no. He’s drunk again. And he runs down to get his dad, but he finds his dad as a as a zombie demon and he attacks him as well and kills him.

Craig: Which surprised me, you know, like that was kinda

Todd: It was a little dark.

Craig: It it is a little bit dark. And at first, it surprised me that these like, it surprised me that the judge got killed because I’m thinking, you know, this isn’t was it CBS or ABC? I don’t remember.

Todd: ABC.

Craig: You know, I don’t know. Maybe things have changed. Today, ABC is very family friendly. Like, they’re kind of the most family

Clip: friendly network of the network cable of the

Craig: network television stations or whatever. And television stations or whatever. And so I was just kinda surprised. Even, like, when the judge died, I’m like, oh, like Yeah. You know, it’s one of the main characters’ dads. I was like, I didn’t I didn’t expect that. But it they soften the blow because everybody comes back. Like, yes, they get killed, but then they come back as monsters, and there’s this underlying promise. I mean, meanwhile, while all of this stuff is going on at the party, and yes, Melissa bites Vinny and then Vinny and Melissa are both going around biting everybody. Eventually, Mary gets bit. Mitch comes back. You know, everybody is dead and dying and coming back as monsters. Meanwhile, Phil has left the party because he realizes that Mary, his crush, isn’t interested in him, she’s interested in somebody else. So he leaves and he finds Sandy again, and they have their own little kind of side story.

Todd: Yeah. It’s the whole movie in and of itself, really.

Craig: It it is. And it’s, you know, this it’s this is an urban legend. Right?

Todd: Yeah. Classic.

Craig: I I I know I’ve heard this story before. You know, like, the guy meeting this girl on Halloween night or whatever and she’s, you know, dressed in older clothes and they spend time together and, like, that’s that’s what this is and she it’s funny. This actress, I don’t know who she is, but, she she’s very sweet, but she’s also emotionally all over the place. Like, in one moment, she’s sad and mopey and then in the next moment, she’s like, woo hoo. Let’s drag race with people in the street.

Todd: And And he’s, like, not picking up on any of this.

Craig: Well, and she, you know, she talks using all, like, 50 slang, and she gets mad when she hears a remake of a fifties song on the radio. She’s like,

Clip: why did they even bother? The original was so much better. Like Phil, I’ve got a really hard idea. What? Well, I was a little down in the dumps, like, before I ran into you. Yeah. And I’m just coming out of it and nothing, I mean nothing, would bring me out of it quick. And then a big chocolate ice cream soda. So let’s go. Where? To the mall shop, of course, silly. The mall shop.

Craig: But it’s cute and it is a little movie in and of itself and it has to play out really fast, but eventually, you know, when they’re kinda having a good time, she’s like, let’s go to Lookout Point, and they do. And then, Todd, it was so funny. Like, she’s totally like, she just jumps his bones. Like

Todd: Todd him. Yeah.

Craig: Which is The second they get there.

Todd: It’s so funny. They do actually kind of set this up in the you know, he has he’s maybe the only character in this movie that has any kind of arc. And at the beginning of the movie, one of the very first things that he does when he’s talking to the family, he’s talking about how he wants to ask Mary out, his dad gives him some advice about how he needs to basically be more assertive with women. Like, he needs to take control, he needs to whatever, and he’s totally not that guy. And even though this girl is like, she’s taking the lead in everything and she’s pulling him through all these different places and encouraging him to do stuff. And and even still, he’s just not he’s still just unwittingly going along with it Todd the point that she, like, literally has to pull him over the front seat to the back seat. Yeah. And he doesn’t even seem that thrilled about it. It’s so crazy. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Craig: It was pretty funny. And so, like, I feel like had the werewolf not showed up because the werewolf shows up and jumps on the car and, like, slashes the top of the convertibles trying

Todd: to get in, like Which is, again, it’s just another classic thing. Right? They’re making out at lookout point.

Craig: Yeah. At lookout point. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Todd: Is to conflate the 2 is kind of interesting.

Craig: Yeah. The the werewolf attacks. If if the werewolf hadn’t attacked, I think that, Phil would have gotten lucky that night. A little bit of necrophilia going on. But anyway, when they get attacked, they go immediately to the police. And the guy that played the head police chief was really familiar to me too, but I didn’t write down his name. Do you know who he was?

Todd: Oh, yeah. Yeah. He has been in a billion things Robocop, the biggest he was in he’s been his he has a 148 IMDB.

Craig: Yeah. He was super I mean, and he he plays a relatively insignificant role, but super recognizable. Anyway, they go to the police station. The the cops don’t believe them, but they also overhear that there have been all of these other reports about weird things going on, vampires, werewolves, monsters, zombies, etcetera. And, so the cops are clearly not gonna be any help, so they run out. But Sandy and and just randomly, Phil mentioned something like, oh, we were out at the cemetery, and she was like, what were you doing at the cemetery? And he says, oh, nothing. We just did this incantation and then left. And and and basically, you know, it it’s like she doesn’t want to fully confess her role in it, but but she confirms, you know, it worked. You know, the the dead are coming back, and she has this extensive knowledge. She’s like

Clip: Phil, listen to me. What we’ve got to do now is get a hold of that parchment and reseal it using Grenville’s ring. We need to make a wax seal from the bones of Grenville himself from his crypt at the cemetery. We’ll need his power. His power? How do you know all this stuff? We need to do this all by midnight.

Craig: And he’s like, how do you he’s like, how do you know all this? And she’s like, I don’t know.

Clip: I just did. And we

Todd: don’t really know either. Right.

Craig: But, anyway, that’s their plan.

Todd: Yep.

Craig: They go back to the house. They go back to the party, and it it looks like it’s abandoned. And they look around a little bit. But then they, you know, like, they walk in the the the entryway is this big, like, foyer with, you know, this big staircase, and and they walk in there, there’s nobody there. They walk into a side room, they come back, and the whole stairway is filled with the partygoers who are now all vampires or demons or ghouls or something. And, they give chase, but fortunately, Mitch is at the head of the mob. And so when they get behind the door and they close the door, Mitch sticks his hand through the door and Sandy’s like Sandy’s like, get the ring get the ring And he’s trying to pull it off, and he’s like, it’s stuck. So she goes and grabs a meat cleaver

Clip: and feels like, no wait.

Craig: And he just grabs some pancake syrup and pours it on the guy’s hand and slides the ring off.

Todd: That was so hilarious.

Craig: Oh, it was funny. It was just so funny that, like, they didn’t they didn’t make a big deal out of it. Like, she just turned around and grabbed a meat cleaver, and he was like, hold up. Like, we don’t need to chop his hand off. And they get the ring.

Todd: They get the ring, and they all go outside. And and in the mean so they’re speeding away to, do what they need to do. I think was it before this that he melted down some silver from his dad’s, Yeah. He melted down some silver from his dad’s, I guess I guess, what he uses to fill teeth with or something. And at the same time, while he’s in there, he turns around and his dad comes up behind him and his dad is also now a vampire or Mhmm. Demon or something like that. We didn’t actually see that happen. But, you just kind of assume everybody in the town now, and they all seem to be converging upon the cemetery or the middle of town or something. There’s even the milkman, and he’s, like, standing up on the top of the milk truck, like, pouring out milk. No. Yeah.

Craig: There there there’s a whole scene, like, where they’re driving through town and they’re driving really slowly so as to not draw attention. And I feel like this is when they’re on their way to back to the house. So I skipped it before, but it’s it’s a, you know, it’s a a long scene. I mean, like, several minutes long where they’re just driving through town and you’re seeing all of these townspeople and

Todd: Just visuals. Yeah.

Craig: I mean, it’s classic. You know, they’re walking up out of the backlit fog and you’ve got, you know, all of your classic zombie. There’s a bride zombie, and there’s an opera singer zombie who is singing opera. Like in the gazebo on the square and, you know, the werewolf is there. And it’s cool to look at. I mean, I I actually enjoyed that scene. Somebody put a lot of effort into those makeup effects and those costumes and the lighting, like, it looked good. It it didn’t progress the plot in any way, but it looked good.

Todd: Yeah. It wasn’t bad. Well, they make it to the cemetery. They’re in the car that they jumped into after they left the party, and somebody springs up in the back seat. It’s so funny because my wife is watching this with me. And as soon as they jump in the car, she’s like, look in the back seat. Look in the back seat. You knew that was coming. Right? And just somebody springs up in the back seat, and it’s their hot teacher. But they’re like, oh, thank Todd it’s you, and they just go on driving. And I’m sitting here thinking, thank God it’s her. Like, everybody you know is in some way, shape, or form a zombie. Dead. Yeah. Check this a little more carefully, and sure enough, they get to the cemetery and hop out. And as they’re trying to break into the little crypt or whatever that his great grandfather great great great grandfather has kept in, She comes behind them, and she is also a vampire. But luckily, what he waxed her over the top of the head with something and

Craig: I the the girl does.

Todd: The girl does.

Craig: Sandy does. And, like

Todd: Sandy’s a spunky gal.

Craig: She is spunky. I I I and I feel like the teacher vampire, like, falls on, like, a trellis or something and, like, impales herself and I guess is dead. I don’t know. It all happens really quickly And, like, that was one of the parts, and it’s one of many where it’s, like, why? Like, why why did she need to be there? Like, it didn’t have any impact on the story

Clip: at all.

Todd: So quick, and it’s also not even shot in a very dramatic way. You know? No. There’s some tension there. It’s just like, oh, no. Whack.

Clip: Okay. Yeah. Yep. Just like that.

Todd: They go inside. It’s so funny Todd. They go inside and and, everybody is converging upon them, so they have to act fast. And he manages to pry the lid off the coffin. And this must be the only person in the entire cemetery who’s actually decomposed enough to a skeleton. Yeah. And they scoop some dust out of there, and she just holds it in her hand. And she’s, like, get the matches. And they have a candle, and he’s trying to light a match. And I’m thinking, they’re gonna do all this in her hand. Yeah. And they do. Well, they yeah.

Craig: I mean, go back to the car. 1st yeah. They didn’t have the matches. The matches in the car, so they had to go back to the car, which, again, it doesn’t really matter. Like, I feel like they shot the werewolf off the top of the car or something. You had mentioned earlier I just think it’s so funny in these werewolf movies that as soon as people find out that there’s a werewolf, they’re like, okay. Well, I’m gonna go home and make some silver bullets real quick. Like, who does that? Anyway, this little pet peeve of mine.

Todd: So, yeah. He shoots the werewolf off. They get into the car. All the whole town is converging upon the car. And surprisingly, even though the werewolf has torn the top off of the car, everyone finds it surprisingly difficult to get into the car. Just in enough time for them to go through this process of melt mixing the wax with the thing, making a seal. And she looks at him, and she says, I love you. Because earlier you know, actually, I really liked this part of the movie. I thought it was a bit touching. -And this was -That’s sweet. -This is my favourite part of the movie, actually. It was just this ghost story, urban legend thing, you know, about him and the girl. Because she was really sweet, and he did kind of find what he was looking for and get his confidence or whatever that you know, because she was so assertive. And she’s just like a nice character and it was just a nice little story. And so I was a little sad when she when, you know, when she disappeared as well.

Craig: Yeah. I mean, because that’s the thing. Like, when she was explaining what had happened, she said that most of them are evil, but not all of them. And and he’s like, well, why would they come back if they weren’t evil? And she says, well, they have unfinished business. They they need to do something that they couldn’t do when they were alive. And he’s, like like, what do you mean? And she says, like, fall in love.

Todd: And he’s so thick, like, oh, okay.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. But it it it’s it’s cute.

Todd: It’s cute. At the same time, it’s just it’s just such a jamming shoehorning in of something almost completely off topic, you know. I mean, what more can you throw into this movie Right. Of ghost lore and vampire lore and monster lore and whatever, you know, to Well have this this as a part of it. But it’s the only thing that gave the movie heart, you know.

Craig: It’s yes. That’s true. And and I don’t know. You know, I guess maybe it’s just because I’m in the Halloween spirit like I love this stuff and and to throw it all together maybe it doesn’t really work as a cohesive whole, but in individual moments, I appreciated, you know, the different parts of it. And and so, yeah, like, the monsters are and you see these, you know, aerial shots of the car with the monsters all over it. It’s I thought it was hilarious. Lucinda’s, like, standing on the top of the car, like, flapping her cape like a bird, like and they they get the match lit and they melt the wax in her hand and the bones and, they do the seal and she says, I love you, and then everything flashes into this bright bright light, and when the light dissipates, everybody’s gone, including her. And he gets out of the car and, conveniently right next to the car is her gravestone with his jacket that he had loaned her draped over it. Like, I feel like this is classic urban legend.

Todd: Mhmm.

Craig: And he he pulls the the jacket off and written in lipstick are her initials plus his initials and then, like, a kiss in in lipstick.

Todd: And it’s I love that he takes a little bit of the lipstick up and takes it to his nose to smell it.

Craig: Yeah. Like, it smell like her breath. Like, I don’t okay. Whatever.

Todd: I think earlier when she was putting it on, she said, Tutti Frutti.

Craig: Oh, yeah. That’s right. I forgot.

Todd: I I half expected that to come out of his mouth. I have to actually give the movie major points for not smelling that and then going Todd be fruity. Letting that be the last line of the movie.

Craig: Yeah. Well, then he gets back in the car and Wolfman Jack comes back on and says

Clip: Hey, the first caller after midnight on Wolfman’s dedication line is a young lady who really wanted to make sure we got this right out right away. It’s from Sandy to Phil.

Craig: And it plays, Baby I’m Yours which is a great love song from the, I don’t know, fifties or sixties. And he smiles and drives away, and then that’s the end of the movie. I can’t believe that we got through that whole thing.

Todd: I know exactly what you’re gonna say. The best part of the whole movie The dance sequence.

Craig: Yes. The dance sequence. There’s this there’s this moment where, like, there it’s after Melissa has already been turned into a vampire and she and Lucinda are just standing there, like, kind of against a wall and this song comes on and Melissa goes, I love this song. And she struts out into the middle of the dance floor, and I sat up in my chair, and I’m like, yes. It’s gonna be a dance number.

Todd: Oh my gosh. It was it was shameless. A shameless thriller dance number.

Craig: Oh my god. And it was hilarious. And, like, at first, like, the music’s playing, and she’s just kind of dancing. And then, eventually, she starts lip syncing to it. And then, eventually, I realized that it was her, like and it was. It was that that actress recorded the song. It was original song. She recorded it for the movie. And you’re right. It’s totally shameless. It’s a total thriller rip off, but it’s hilarious and fantastic. And they totally break the 4th wall, like, they’re looking right into the camera. Oh my god. It was so good. Yeah. Like like and and it’s, like, it’s so bad. It I I don’t even wanna say so bad it’s good because I just enjoyed it so much and, like, the choreography was fun and, like, it starts out with just Melissa and then Lucinda joins in and then some other random people start joining in. And, eventually, everybody joins in and it’s this huge choreographed thing. Oh, my god. It was so much fun. I loved it. You know, it’s

Todd: it’s it’s truly a Halloween movie. I mean, it’s a Halloween extravaganza. Hey, because Halloween’s like that. You know, Halloween is just a mishmash where we just kinda throw everything in a big cauldron and stir it up, you know. It’s it’s like a Halloween party, you know, where everyone’s coming dressed in a different costume. It all just works anyway. This movie is like that. Every

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: There’s tons of different weird plot things. There’s okay, fine. She’s a vampire and he’s a vampire and there’s a werewolf and none of it really makes sense, but it’s just kinda thrown together and connected by this threadbare plot that, oh, yeah. And then we’ll throw in the ghost story, you know, the urban legend ghost story. And it doesn’t really work, but it’s fine if it’s great for Halloween. Yeah. I’m not saying it’s a perfect Halloween movie, but it’s definitely in the spirit of the season for sure.

Craig: Well and like you said, I mean, it was just it was a different time. Like, these movies were an event and the the networks would advertise them, you know, for weeks in advance and you would sit down with your family most probably, even though they aired this one kinda late, because I think maybe it was a little bit too scary for little kids, but you would sit down with your family or, you know, in your room with your little 12 inch TV or whatever, and you would watch these. And it was an event because, like you said, it’s not like you could get on Hulu the next day and watch it. Like, if you missed it, you missed it. Like, that was it. And, you know, when your friends were talking about

Clip: it at school the next day, it’s

Craig: not like you could just be, oh, well, I’ll watch it on Netflix when I get home. No. Like, you missed it. Sorry. It’s over.

Todd: And they generally had to have this kind of mass appeal. Uh-huh. You know, which I think is why it kind of ends up hokey. That’s generally what happens when you try to make something appeal to everybody. You know, you got a little bit of stuff for the older people. You got a little bit of stuff for the younger people. You have a little bit of cliches, a little bit something that everybody’s gonna recognize. You have all these stars that don’t even all make sense to be in this movie like Dick Van Patten, You know? Right. I mean, all these kind of odd cameos, which were so typical of these movies. It’s like, hey. Let’s throw in somebody somebody something somebody everybody knows. We can’t afford to have them, like, be the main character, but, you know, we can have them pop in, and then grandma can be like, oh,

Craig: I love Dick Van Patten. You know, that kind

Todd: of thing.

Craig: Well and and I have to say that in terms of, quality, you know, when it comes to cinematography and and acting, this is actually really quite good as compared to some of the other movies. I mean, I I have a special place in my heart for the It miniseries, but I would say that this is better produced even maybe than that was.

Todd: Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. I think you’re right.

Craig: There there’s just a lot, you know, with the costumes and the makeup and the effects and The lighting. The yeah. The lighting. I mean, it just it looks better. It it looks like it could’ve had a theatrical release. Not that it’s a great movie. It’s not great, but it looks good. I don’t know. You know, I understand what the critics are saying. It is a little slow, as far as pacing is concerned. It totally is a big hodgepodge, but ultimately those things didn’t really bother me that much. I enjoyed it. I wasn’t, like, laughing out Todd. I wasn’t scared ever. I wasn’t like super intrigued, but it held my attention and it was fun. It was just kind of a fun movie to watch.

Todd: Well, and a little bit of trivia and here Macaulay Culkin made his debut on this film.

Craig: Yeah. As an uncredited trick or treater, I didn’t see him.

Todd: Probably under a mask. Yeah.

Craig: Yep. And that was it. That was all I could find. I mean, I just knew. I was just sure that there would be all kinds of stories

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: You know, with with as many famous people who were in this and, you know, I expected to read things about the production. Yeah. And I just couldn’t find much of anything, which is unfortunate. But Well whatever. It was still fun.

Todd: Probably not a lot of people have seen it. I mean, now that we have the Internet, you can see it. Somebody’s been kind enough to upload it from those rare tapes that were out there. But once again, like you said, if you hadn’t seen it when it came out for the last few decades, you missed

Clip: it. Yeah.

Todd: But you can catch it on YouTube, and I will be putting a link to it as well on our website, so that you can check it out as well for Halloween. Alright. And that is the end of this episode of 2 Guys in a Chainsaw. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Facebook. You can also find us at 2 guys dot redfortynet.com where we have all of our back episodes. A link to this movie will be on there as well. Please leave us a comment. We have a nice little lineup of Halloween movies leading up to October 31st for you this year. And then, of course, we do take requests, so please let us know what you would like us to review and we’ll get to those as well. Until next time, I’m Todd

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Despite being billed as “the first gay slasher film,” not many people have heard of this 2004 micro-budget indie movie. It did not receive a wide release, but it’s now available for streaming online, 14 years later, and we both concluded that it is definitely worth a watch. Listen here for our analysis

Episode 143, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Craig:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: And as per usual, I am recording my part of the podcast from my living room. You wanna tell people where you are today, Todd? 

Todd:  I’m in Singapore. I’m in a I’m in the, of the 4th floor restaurant of the hotel that we’re staying in, which also happens to be outdoors, and they’re playing A lot of the top 40 American hits, but there aren’t too many people in here. So I don’t think I’m bothering anybody. It’s it’s about 10 PM, But I am a little worried about the sound quality. So if it sounds a little strange to you guys, I do apologize, but that’s what’s going on. 

Craig:  I I gotta say, I I wish I were there with you. I think it’d be a little bit more exciting than being here in my living room at 9 o’clock in the morning, but that’s alright. Alright. Anyway, it’s our favorite time of the year again. Fall has rolled around, and we are now moving into October, which, of course, means Halloween. And so, once again, this year, we’ve decided to take a look at some movies that are set on or around Halloween and that definitely have, a major Halloween vibe. And so I just googled movies set on Halloween, and, And, I was directed to a Wikipedia page that had a whole big long list, of films. And, I went through and and kinda picked out some of the ones I thought were interesting.   Thing. And, I recommended for this week that we take a look at 2000 and four’s Hellbent, which, didn’t get a lot of attention when it came out. It played some festivals first, and then it had a limited theatrical release. And It’s a fairly typical slasher. It’s a slasher movie. What makes this a little bit unique, not that there hadn’t been A couple movies like this before and and this movie, I think, kinda sparked, a trend in in, this type of movie. But what makes it a little bit unique is that All of the central characters and pretty much all of the characters, really, are gay men. And so instead of your typical, Slasher where you’ve got kind of a hodgepodge of stereotypical characters.   In this film, we follow A group of gay men on Halloween night, young, attractive gay men on Halloween night, at a Halloween party in West Hollywood. Did you know anything about this movie? Had you seen it before? 

Todd:  Oh, gosh. No. I didn’t know a single thing about this movie. I mean and I could kinda see why. I mean, it it came out in 2004, And it’s pretty micro budget. I mean, it is a you can tell it’s low budget because it’s kinda cheap even though, I don’t think it’s a cheap movie. Actually, I kind of I really like this movie, to be quite honest. I’ll be interested to hear what you think of it, but you could tell from the way that it was shot.   And I’ll tell you. You know, in about 2004, shortly before that, I had shot a movie. I shot a movie in Japan, and I think I used a lot of the same equipment that these guys used. Mean, I I guarantee you, they were using the same camera I was using. You know? I can tell. And it was and it was shot on video, but they took a lot of pains Todd really make it seem like a bigger movie than it really is, as far as production value goes. You know, there’s a lot A cool scenery. There are a ton of care of not a lot of characters main characters in it, but Todd of extras, really interesting settings.   The lighting is really good and all that. Yeah. It it’s not enough to overcome that that shot on video kind of feel that it gets, but there are Some moments when it’s quite impressive and it really does shine. So this is the kind of movie that, you know, because it played some film festivals and then probably went straight to video. And in 2004, we didn’t we weren’t streaming stuff, you know, online. There’s no question I I wouldn’t have I wouldn’t have heard of this movie. No. Absolutely.   Yep. 

Craig:  Yeah. I don’t know I don’t remember where I first heard of it. I don’t know if it was on Netflix for a little while or or what, but I had seen it, and it had been quite a long time ago. And 

Todd:  You did. You saw this before? 

Craig:  Yeah. I had seen it before. I can imagine that probably I was Drawn to it because, it was advertised as, LGBTQ movie, and, you just I personally hadn’t seen a lot of that in horror. You know, we’ve done we’re up to I don’t know. We’re in our 140 something episodes, and we’ve only done maybe 2 other movies that had some queer themes. I was trying to think back. I know we did, Sleepaway Camp. The other one that I was thinking of, and it it could be considered somewhat of a stretch, but, let me in had some, kind of sexuality themes going on there. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  Anyway, the I watched this movie again, and at first, I was a little bit skeptical. I don’t know. Maybe I’ll get to why in a second. But as we got Through more of it, especially by kind of the halfway point, I was like, you know what? This is pretty good. It’s actually a pretty good slasher. And by the time it was over, I was really satisfied with it. I hadn’t really read a lot about it beforehand, but I went and tried to find some stuff. And I was a little bit disappointed because there really wasn’t much info in, the IMDB entry.   But then I went to Wikipedia, and there was some really interesting stuff there. And the thing that I was most interested in, was its conception. I guess there were these executive producers who had had some, you know, relative success with horror films in the past. Some of them a little bit more mainstream like, Halloween 2 and Halloween 3. Some of them a little bit, more obscure. But these producers just had this concept that they wanted to make a serial killer film featuring homosexual characters. And they came up with this general concept that they wanted it to be on Halloween night, and they wanted, these gay men to be pursued by a masked Killer. And so they approached this openly gay art director, Paul Etheredge.   They approached him, and he had never directed a film on his own, and he had never written a film on his own. And they tasked him with both of those things. And they gave him the concept, And he was interested, but he didn’t really know a whole lot about the horror genre or the slasher genre. So he went and he watched as many eighties horror films as he could find, especially slasher films. And he noticed trends. And, of course, there are in these types of movies. But he he kind of, figured out the structure of the narrative, and he realized that there were these stock character types, you know, the Final Girl, the Anjou, the slut, the tough guy. And so he translated that just onto, gay male characters.   And, really, that’s what you get. They also, wanted this to be a movie where the character’s homosexuality Sexuality was blatant, but also not the central focus that it was just sort of incidental to their characters. These were all The characters were all men who were comfortable in their sexuality and, you know, just went about their lives. It wasn’t A movie about them being gay. They just happen to be gay. Yeah. And and it followed them. And then it follows the pretty straightforward, serial Or or slasher movie where you’ve got this masked character who follows them around, motives Pretty much unknown, and he starts kinda picking them off 1 by 1.   And even though all of the kills are Pretty much the same. This guy, he’s this big, muscly guy, and he’s all painted up kind of like in this red Craig. He’s dressed as a devil, and he’s got this devil mask on. And he’s really intimidating, and, he he doesn’t speak. They decided there originally, he had lines in the lie in the film, but they decided to cut all of his dialogue because they wanted to leave him as much to the imagination of the viewers as they Could. They wanted the viewer to be able to project their own fears onto this character, and they were afraid that whatever voice they gave him would muddy that and would Yeah. Limit people’s ability to kind of draw their own conclusions and and whatnot. So he never talks, and the way that he kills the people is pretty consistent.   He carries around this scythe, and he beheads people. And and that’s, you know, it in a nutshell. But I just thought that, it was clever. You know? I I didn’t necessarily pick up on How stereotypical it was, especially with those stereotypical tropes of the the characters. Yeah. Yeah. But then having read that, I was like, Oh, yeah. I I see what they did there. 

Todd:  It wasn’t obvious. It wasn’t obvious. 

Craig:  No. It’s not obvious, but in hindsight, it kind of is. Right? 

Todd:  Yeah. It is in in hindsight, and maybe that has to do with the gender thing. You know? Maybe that has to do with the fact that it’s all men in this movie. Like, There isn’t a woman in sight, really. Oh, there are just, like, 2 women who or, like, extra extras. They come and they go. And, they don’t really have speaking roles or anything like that. And so many of those stereotypes that we slip into with those slasher movies are always they always have women in there too, and there’s often a lot of The gender kind of going back and forth like the women are weak except for the 1 woman who’s a finer girl who is strong.   And some guy’s a douchey asshole who’s always trying to get in some other woman’s pants. And, you know, all of this kind of thing seems to play so much on gender that when here, when you have 1, all are men, I think that even though, like you said, those tropes are in there, They’re a lot less, recognizable to us right on the face, maybe. They don’t seem so familiar. Right? 

Craig:  Yeah. I I agree. The other thing that I found interesting was that, they wanted a racially diverse cast for the movie, and they put out, you know, kind of a cattle call. And they specifically Invited, a large group of actors of color, but none of them showed up. And the writer slash director speculates that for whatever reason, whether it be, you know, cultural or or whatever, that people of color just weren’t as comfortable playing homosexual characters. And so they ended up having to cast, pretty much an entirely white cast, of effort on their part, which I appreciate. And it was I also found it interesting that all of our main characters, who we’ll get to here in just a second, We’re played by straight men. 

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. 

Craig:  And, you know, I think in 2018, that might ruffle some feathers. You know, there’s a lot of debate about representation in films, and some people have taken some flack for for casting white actors in roles that were Conceived, for people of color. And, so there’s been some backlash, but, you know, with this little Independent movie. I I don’t think it really caused much of a stir. And, frankly, I it didn’t bother me at all. All of these men were Comfortable kissing one another, you know, being sexually playful with one another. I I read that, the only complaint 1 of the guys complained after a kissing scene that his face hurt Because the other guy had 5 o’clock shadow. Yeah.   And and one of the characters is in drag The whole movie. And I I guess he kept falling down because he couldn’t walk in the heels. But it even worked for his character because even though he’s a gay man, I’m sure our listeners know that not all gay men are drag queens. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  So it it worked for his character that he wasn’t, you know, particularly comfortable in drag. It was something that he was Kind of doing as a gag for the night for Halloween. 

Todd:  Yeah. It was a Halloween thing, and he even said something to somebody else at one point, like, I don’t always dress this way or something like that. Right. Yeah. So it did. It worked a lot. It worked well. You know, what I really, really enjoyed about this movie, and I’ll have to say after about 10 minutes, I was like, I think I’m really getting into this is because this is this movie for me anyway and now you can you can tell me if I’m wrong maybe you don’t even know Craig.   But this movie for me was like a window into a world that is totally not ever been a part of my world and and never will be. You know? Right. It was just really fascinating to follow these horny gay guys around in 1 evening on This Halloween night at this party and them joking with each other and the kinds of stuff they joked about and the the places they went and the stuff that was on their minds and just I just More than anything, I think I really invested myself in the characters because I really liked hanging out with them. Does that make sense? 

Clip:  Yeah. 

Todd:  And It does. It was interesting to me as a Straight man who’s just I mean, of course, I like most straight men. I’ve I’ve plenty of gay friends, but, you know, there’s always gonna be. It’s just like going out with a group of women. You know? I’m always gonna be odd man out, and they’re never going to be their true selves or bear their selves or or kind of, like, do their girly things with me there. You know? It would be the like, the same sort of thing here, and so this was just really interesting to me. I don’t know if the movie was accurate in its portrayal of what a A night out or if it was maybe a little exploitative or maybe just a little over the Todd. I don’t know.   You could tell me. 

Craig:  Well yeah. I I mean, I’m certainly no expert, and I’m really pretty vanilla. You know? Like, I’m a stay at home kinda guy. You know, I’m almost 40 years old. Anything like this is very far removed from my life Todd. But I’m I’m glad to hear you say that. And, you know, I expected that that’s what you would say. But I was talking to my partner last night, and I’m like, I hope I don’t have to have this Talk with Todd.   And I said, and I don’t think that I will, but I know that there would be straight men, some straight men, who would watch this movie and be uncomfortable Because there is blatant sexuality, and you’ve got men kissing one another. You’ve got men together in sexual situations. And that makes some straight men uncomfortable, which I’ll never understand because I am gay, but I watch these slasher movies all the time. And I watch boobies flopping around, and I watch, you know, guys and girls making out and having sex, and girls and girls making out and having sex. And Todd doesn’t do anything for me, but it doesn’t make me uncomfortable either. And so I I Right. I just don’t understand, How some guys and I know you’re not like this, but how some guys get uncomfortable by that with that Well, 

Todd:  you know, I I think there was a time when I was, Craig, you know, when I was much younger, When I was, when I was told that this was a bad thing Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. And I kind of grew up, you know, with that with that mindset that I had to overcome. And so when you’re told it’s a bad thing or that there’s something wrong or unnatural about it, then naturally, you get uncomfortable seeing it. You know what I mean? I think that’s that’s where it is. And then Being a man, you know, and that, like I said, just isn’t a part of my world. I just don’t have those kinds of attractions in in the slightest.   Although, You know, there are people I mean, gender is very fluid, and gender is, is along a spectrum. You can be wholly attracted to women. You can be wholly attracted to men. A a lot of people are somewhere in the middle. 

Craig:  Right. Right. 

Todd:  In fact, a couple of the characters in this movie, are are bouncing back and forth. And that’s cool to see too. The movie felt very honest to me. And Yeah. Like I said, maybe when I was a kid, I’m watching this, this would’ve made me really uncomfortable. Now as a 40 year old adult, you know, a little wiser to the world, it was just fascinating to me because I like I said, it’s a window, and it’s again, I’m sure there probably is a whole genre of films now days that are geared towards, homosexual men, star homosexual people. Right. And it’s kind of like, like like rom coms for women, you know, that kinda thing.   But I’ve never seen 1. I mean, I never have, and it’s not because I 

Clip:  Sure. Sure. 

Todd:  I’m not interested. It’s just because it never has crossed my mind, and they’re just they’re not that you know, they’re not Splashed up on the on the marquee. Right? I mean, I think they’re still sadly probably direct to video or direct to streaming kind of things for the most part until 1 or 2 of these gets real big breakthrough and folks realize there’s a big market for it as I’m sure there is. 

Craig:  Well, in some of those that you’re talking about, there are some studios that Craig these out. And, they’re re oh, gosh. They’re really, really bad. I mean, they’re they’re just they’re just opportunities to get a bunch of very attractive men together running around in their underwear, and and that’s really all there is to it. And and so just like in any subgenre, there’s there’s the good and the bad. And I would argue that this is pretty good. As far as representation is concerned, I think that this is fair representation. I think that This is kind of a look into a world, one that I have never fully been immersed in, but I know some of these guys, and have known some of these guys.   And when I was younger, you know, I was a little bit wilder, there for a little while. And The the oh, what’s the word? I you know, it’s it’s not sleaziness or or sluttiness. You know what people choose to do, you know, with their sex lives and their bodies? I am very much of the opinion that that’s people’s choice. So I don’t have any problem with men who are okay with casual hookups and things. You know, it’s it’s not my thing and really never has been, but, You know, there is that culture. And, you know, West Hollywood, they shot I I guess they shot, like, 6 hours of, carnival at West Hollywood. And they only ended up using a a a couple of minutes of it, I think, but you can see it. You know, it’s there, and and this is real.   You know? These people get together, and they they get dressed up, and it’s very celebratory. There is a component of drug culture, but then I also thought that it was fair in showing that not all gay guys are the same. You know, they’re Yeah. They’re different. You know? Mhmm. Some of them are promiscuous. Some of them are not. You know? Some of them dress in leather.   Some of them dress in khakis and button down Shirts. You know, it’s, I thought it was fair representation, and I thought that these guys, even though they are straight, really were so comfortable that I appreciated their portrayal. And I appreciate it not that there’s anything wrong with gay men who are Affeminate. There’s I have no problem with that, but I think that that’s kind of a stereotype that’s used to denigrate homosexuals Sometimes. And these guys, even though they’re gay and they kiss other guys, they’re guys. 

Todd:  Yeah. They really are. Yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. So I thought that it was, fair. And, the other thing that I really liked about the portrayal was our 4 main guys, Eddie, who I guess is the final girl, Chaz, who is the slutty one, Todd, who because he’s, You know, blonde and in drag and is the really beautiful one. It’s kind of the Ingenue. And then Joey doesn’t really fit the tough guy, but he’s, you know, into jocks and stuff like that. What I liked about the 4 of them was that their friendship seemed really genuine. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And it seemed like they were really comfortable together, And that is real, and that is something that I have experienced, especially in college, where there was, You know, a a tight knit gay community. You know, I had lots of guy friends, and we were very comfortable with one another. And, yeah, we would date one another sometimes and, you know, other stuff sometimes, but mostly, you know, we were we were friends, And we were comfortable, and we were comfortable talking with one another. We were comfortable being ourselves, and I I really liked that, about, the movie. And, you know, so that’s kind of the sociopolitical stuff. Should we get into the plot? 

Todd:  Should we talk about it? I Feel like we need to at some point. Right? Right. Well, the way that the movie starts out, actually did make me uncomfortable, But not for those reasons. The the movie starts out with a guy running down through the woods, and it’s dark. And, actually, Talk about really good cinematography choices. I thought it was really cool that in this dark woods where everything is kind of black and white, he’s running down inexplicably with a Big pile of balloons. Yeah. 

Craig:  Helium balloons. Right? Bright red 

Todd:  and bright blue balloons, and he’s being chased by, his friend. And, they end up in the back seat of a car. And they’re trying to make out, but they also have these balloons in the back seat. And Uh-huh. They’re starting to get pretty hot and heavy with it. And what made me uncomfortable about this scene was, my Todd, you guys are old enough. You should not be in the back seat of a car. 

Craig:  Right. These balloons in your face. 

Todd:  It was just, like, claustrophobia. I was like, come on, man. Like Like, I wanted them to get out of the back seat of this car just because it may be uncomfortable how crammed in they were and trying to maneuver around in there. Well, eventually, one of them rolls down the window and and, oh, he’s got his shirt off, and the other dude’s starting to pull his pants off. And he’s so he’s, kind of sitting halfway out the window. At the same time, we’re seeing some POV shots from the woods, so we know somebody’s watching them. And then we see flashes go in front of the camera of a figure, and we see these these horns and whatnot on the top of this figure. And we see that hook side thing.   And then as this guy is leaning back, getting pleasured as he’s outside the window, this guy, with a hook comes by and slices his neck, His head clean off at the neck. And it’s so clean and so quick that the other guy doesn’t even hear it, until he, What pulls him in or or leans over, leans out the window or something, and sees that his head is gone. And at that same time, Coming around the other side, the window gets, gets smashed, and we get the idea that he’s killed as well. And we He is, in fact, killed as well. What a great opening scene, though. 

Craig:  Yeah. It was really good. 

Todd:  It really was. And, again, it’s like you can swap male for female here, and it is An absolute trope. How many horror movies start out like this with 2 people making out in the back of a car, and then they both get killed, and that’s how it starts. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  But but for this film, it becomes kind of a focal point because they’re the 1st to get murdered, and the next scene is inside of a police station. And one of the guys, our main character, Eddie, sitting behind the computer in the police station clicking through wanted photos or something. And a woman comes up to him, one of the officers, and slaps some stuff down on his desk like he’s the detective. Right? Like, Well, we got another couple, we got a we got a murder in. It was a real nasty one this time. Heads cut clean off, and here are the crime photos, and she slaps them down for him. And he, in the meantime, had also printed out a bunch of these wanted It 

Craig:  it it looked like it looked like mugshots. 

Clip:  Happy Halloween. Jesus Christ. Fresh held. Bowed us courtesy of your friendly homicide department. Thanks. Hello. Hey. Oh, this is a nice lineup.   Yeah. You, planning on some personal time in the bathroom later? Okay. No problem. Something. 

Todd:  Anyway, it was really strange because if. Because, again, you’re getting the impression I think you were meant to get the impression that he is actually a police officer. It turns out that he’s just this girl’s brother. Yeah. She’s the police officer, And he’s like, I don’t know, hanging out in the police station going through the computer? 

Craig:  I think he’s a technician because she says something about how he needs fix the printer. Oh, 

Todd:  okay. 

Craig:  This scene, frankly, was a little bit clunky because he’s clicking through these He’s clicking through these mugshots and printing them out, and it’s really unclear why. I think that what this is supposed to do is to establish that he’s turned on by bad boys. 

Todd:  Okay. 

Craig:  And so I I thought 

Todd:  it was weirder than that. I thought it it was it was strange because not only is he okay. Maybe turned on my bad boys. I mean, he’s printing out these pictures. Okay. I get that. But then the fact that she’s presenting him with these blood bloody Crime scene photos that he also seemed kind of fascinated Todd. I thought there was a a bit more weirdness there than that.   I don’t think it was, but it was certainly was certainly the impression I got at the very beginning. 

Craig:  Yeah. It was odd. I didn’t know what to make of it either. But he ends up being kind of the Even though he’s into bad boys, he’s kind of the goody goody of the bunch. 

Todd:  Oh, yeah. 

Craig:  And then in the following scenes well, there’s a really cool Craig scene where, you know, it’s all, We get the credits, but it’s shot against kind of this, I don’t know, saturated red, almost like fire tones. And We see some of this footage that I assume is real footage, from from Carnaval. And then, we just kinda get your Standard introduction to the rest of the characters. The police chief, who was the only guy in the whole movie that I recognized, he had been in a couple other movies. I don’t remember. He was his name was, Ren t Brown, and he was in Hellraiser 4. And, I remembered him from a Robert Hunny Junior movie, Heart and Souls from the nineties. Oh, yeah.   He was a cop. He was a cop in that movie too. Yeah. The police chief asks Eddie to distribute these flyers. I guess, you know, looking for information about these murders or whatever. And so he goes around, and he’s hanging The flyers, and it’s it’s kinda goofy because he’s wearing his dad’s 

Todd:  his dad was so dumb. There’s no way that they would allow this to happen. Right? He asked them to hang out these flyers. It’s like, Oh, can I wear my dad’s uniform? Okay. You can wear your dad’s uniform. And he digs his dad’s uniform out of the closet. I guess his Dad’s dead. Right? 

Craig:  And then he 

Todd:  goes by, like, a Halloween store and buys a badge and puts it on, like, this cheap plastic badge. It’s kinda Stupid. 

Craig:  It is. Dumb. And then he runs around town, like, acting like he’s really a cop. Like, he’s, like, directing traffic, Kidding. You know? It’s it’s really pretty stupid. Yeah. But he as he’s passing these flyers out, he, Sees this guy outside of a tattoo shop, you know, this, you know, buff kinda motorcycle type guy. And, of course, the guy comes out for a Smoke without his shirt on because he’s getting a tattoo, and, Eddie’s immediately attracted to him.   So he goes over and, you know, goes in Todd the tattoo parlor under the guise of he wants to hang up one of these flyers or whatever. And he’s just staring at this guy while he’s getting a tattoo. And, eventually, the guy catches his eye in a mirror, and it makes Eddie freak out and drop all of his papers. And he just kinda runs out of there. 

Todd:  No. No. Now wait a second, though. Then there was that that shot of the blood kinda slowly dripping down. Yes. That coupled with the whole bit about the crime scene photos in the beginning Still had me feeling weird about Eddie. Like like, he was getting off on the blood thing too. I don’t know. 

Craig:  I I guess enough. I it just 

Todd:  it was just these little things. I was like, What are they trying to say about this guy? And and it wasn’t until it wasn’t until a little bit into the movie that I realized I don’t think they were trying to say anything like that about him because, like you said, he’s the Goody goody. It just was a little clunky. Maybe they were focusing on these things for other reasons. I don’t know. 

Craig:  Yeah. No. I well, I think that watching that That drop of blood run down this guy’s back was an opportunity to highlight this guy’s body. And, like, it was it ran right down to his waistline, which You could see down just just a tiny little bit, and I I think that’s I think that’s what they were going for. But, anyway, then they have a little chat, side the tattoo parlor, and the guy doesn’t seem to be really interested at all. And eventually, he just goes off. And and part of it’s because Eddie’s kind of a bumbling doofus, you know, in trying to talk to this guy. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  But then, he continues doing flyers, and he comes to this car where there are people having sex in the car. And he knocks on the car window, and you think that he’s just doing his cop gag again. And this girl pops up, and she’s like, oh, no. It’s a cop. And she’s like, I’m 18. I swear I can prove it. Meanwhile, this guy gets out of the car, and it turns out that this is one of Eddie’s roommates, Chaz. And I don’t know.   Initially, I think I was thinking, wait. I thought they were all gay. And then An another guy comes out of the car too, and it turns out that Chaz had picked up this couple, in the diner, and they were having a three way, in the car. Chaz is the slutty dirty one, but It’s funny. And he play he’s charismatic. Like, that’s the thing. Like, all of the characters are kinda charismatic. So it’s not like, oh, he’s the slutty one, so I don’t like him.   No. Like, He seems like a really nice, fun guy. He just likes sex a lot. They go into the diner, and Another one of their roommates is Joey. He works in there, and their 4th roommate, Toby, joins them. And Toby is in full drag. And, basically, what he says is, I’m a sex symbol every other night of the year. This tonight, I just kinda wanna be left alone.   So it’s like, I’m so gorgeous as a man. I’m dressing as a woman, so I won’t have to, like, get all these guys away from me or whatever. It’s kinda silly, but whatever. It’s a slasher be in there all having fun and 

Clip:  To be honest, it’s the 1 night of the year, Halloween, when you get to indulge your most perverse and twisted fin, Hey. Nobody cares. There’s Reynolds. Who put my line? That’s potential. Hey. Hey. Everybody talking about here, will you? So what about you, you know me, man. Life is meant for living. 

Craig:  And so they’re gonna go to West Hollywood, and they’re gonna go to this big carnival. And They get in the car, and and they’re just talking and chumming it up, and it’s very comfortable and natural. And, but Chaz drives them Chaz drives them to the spot of the murder, which apparently is only a quick jaunt through the woods to get to the carnival. 

Todd:  It just so happens. Yeah. It just so happened. It’s kinda weird that he does that. It leads to a pretty good jump scare, I think, where they’re talking about it. And That, again, for a first time director is very clever. He’s showing a lot of the window behind them, which is kinda what you do when you’re a little concerned That there might be something coming in out the window. And so as a viewer, you’re kinda looking for it, and you’re waiting.   And, I think it’s Joey as they’re talking about the the murder. Joey reaches around from the back seat through the window to the front seat and and grabs, Toby, right at that right moment and, freaks him out. And I I jumped. I thought it was I did too. To be able to put these tropes together so well that Even if you can kinda see them coming a mile away, they’re still effective. I thought it was pretty good. 

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, yeah. I agree. And and so then they’re sitting there talking about it, and they get out, and they’re gonna walk Through the woods, get to the party, and they’re they but they’re like, oh, well, it’s our gonna be our last chance to pee for a while, so let’s all pee. And they all kinda Spread out in this clearing in the woods. Really? And and they’re they’re they’re peeing and, you know, just kinda joking with one another. And then Eddie sees that somebody is watching them from the bushes, and he calls their attention to it. And they all kind of gather together, and they all see him, and it’s the killer.   It’s the same killer that we’ve seen, and we know that. Now they don’t think much of it. They think that this guy is Cruising them, which for you straight folks out there is, you know, this phenomenon where, you know, guys kinda hang out at Truck stops are in public parks, and and they’re looking for sex or whatever. This is not part of my gay experience, but I’ve seen movies about it. 

Todd:  This isn’t me, but, you know, I’ve heard stories. 

Craig:  No. No. I I’m serious. It’s not. Then my mom might listen to this, and I don’t want her to get there on the pressure. 

Todd:  Well, it’s so funny because at some point, they’re all taunting him. And, then they turn around and they moon him. Uh-huh. And the guy runs away or something like that. 

Clip:  You snuffed us? Are you kidding me? Four perfect young naked asses? Who walks away from that? 

Craig:  But they they think he runs away. And so, like, they’re pulling up their pants and, you know, zipping up or whatever. But then he pops up again, like, really close to them, and it scares them. So they take off running. Well and they also at first, they think he’s, like, playing with himself, but it because they can only kinda see him in silhouette, and they’re impressed with his physique. And this guy is a very, you know, good looking physical specimen. And at first, they think that he’s playing with themself, but then they realize that it’s the handle of his knife. And they they think you know? Now they know he’s got a knife, and he pops up right next to them.   So they take off running, and they get there. But, you know, it’s it’s almost like, That was funny. No big deal. But then they realized that he’s followed them there too, and they’re still not particularly concerned. It’s like they think that he’s just kinda messing with them or, You know, maybe has his eye on one of them or something. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  And so they make eye contact with him and, but they they go off and do their own thing. And Eddie ends up seeing his crush, the biker guy, going into this leather bar. And they hadn’t been planning on going to the leather bar, but Eddie really wants to follow this Guys, so they all go. It’s pretty cool inside. You know? It’s all decorated for Halloween. There’s lots of, like, bondage stuff and cages and guys dancing in cages and Yeah. You know, fake limbs hanging from the ceiling. And 

Todd:  And then there’s a guy on stage who is doing some gay metal rock Rap some? 

Craig:  It’s gay yeah. It’s gay punk. There was a there actually was a term for it, and I I don’t have it in front of me, so I can’t remember. But it was a musical movement that was going on at the time that the, writer, director didn’t really know about the scene. But in in preparing for this movie, he found out about it, and, he wanted to include it in the movie, and there was this 1 band nickname and like, that was the name of the lead singer. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Name and the and the somethings. So he approached this band to see if they would write some music for the movie and perform in this club, And they did. And I didn’t know this until after, but the lead singer of the band is the killer. Like, Not in the world of the movie. Like, they’re not the same character, but the guy who’s the lead singer of the band is the guy that Plays the killer. 

Todd:  Uh-huh. He’s the same a he’s the actor. Yeah. Right. Well, I was listening. The only reason I went down that particular rabbit hole is because The lyrics that he was saying were so disgusting. They were. I was like, what is this? And so I had to look him up, and I found out This guy, I don’t know.   He put out a couple albums, and he’s an ex Mormon missionary from Utah. 

Craig:  Oh my gosh. 

Todd:  I just had the last wild. Yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. I didn’t like I it it the what he was singing was very fast. You know, it was it’s very punk, and and so the lyrics flew by really fast. And I would just get little bits of them, and I’d be like, what? Like, Like, I’m, like, clutching my pearls. Like, oh my. I’m clutching your pearls. 

Todd:  That’s great. 

Craig:  But it’s a it’s a it’s a Fun scene and, like Sorry. 

Todd:  This, again, is this whole other world, you know, this leather bar. And I wondered, you know, you know, 1 person we haven’t really talked about yet, But bears mentioning is Joey. His whole goal for the evening is to get this some guy’s number. Oh, and and he’s he’s the only one actually dressed in leather. That was his Costume for the night. He’s like the the young man of the group Uh-huh. Or whatever that they’re trying to take care of. And, Anyway, so he kinda fits right here in at home in this leather bar, and this guy, Nick Nain, pulls him up on stage.   And at first, he’s up there, and he’s kinda dancing. He’s a little uncomfortable, and he kinda pushes him aside. And he says, just go with it just go with the kid. Look. What is he doing? And 2 guys grab him and take him to this table that’s out in the audience and lay him down on this table, And they have these giant fake chainsaws, and they’re fake cutting him up with the chainsaws, and the chainsaws are squirting blood all over. Uh-huh. It’s like Sort of this, like, magic trick slash bloodletting kind of like fake bloodletting kind of leather bar thing. And, Nick ends up, like, underneath the table.   And these guys, when the lights kinda go out and come back up, they’re holding, like, a fake head of his up above Right. To the crowd and everybody. It was just part of a it’s like a whole show. It’s kind of a whole show kinda thing, and he crawls on the crepe. 

Craig:  I mean, you know, it’s Halloween, and it was Yeah. It was cool. It it was fun. Now I personally wouldn’t want that to happen to me because I wouldn’t wanna be covered in fake blood all night long. But If I witnessed it happening, I would be like, oh my gosh. This party rocks. Yeah. For sure. 

Todd:  And there’s also something a little sexual about it. You know? I’ve actually heard of some of these clubs. When I moved to Japan, the guy that, that I replaced at the school apparently was a videographer, and he would actually go to some of these, like, Leather bar kind of clubs in Japan, and and and he was, tasked with videotaping the shows and things like that. And some of his friends told me some of this Weird stuff that they did in these places, and it, you had me clutching my pearls too. 

Craig:  Yeah. I’ve never been to a leather bar. 

Todd:  But this kinda seemed like you just don’t see it in these kinda movies. You know? You just don’t. So it was cool. It was very unique. 

Craig:  Unless unless it’s being presented as something really seedy. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like like, Todd Detectives will end up here, like, for a murder investigation. Oh, like Everybody’s really seedy and and, you know, it’s all smoke and shadow Oh, and 

Todd:  Yeah. Like, 8 millimeter or some really nasty yeah. 

Craig:  Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. But this, I mean, it seemed like it seemed they were having a good time. You know? It was it was a party, and everybody’s having a good time. And there were, you know, there were guys in leathers there, but it was Halloween, so there are all kinds of people dressed in different things. Yeah. And, everybody’s drinking and dancing and having a good time, and Eddie finds his guy who it ends up, His name is Jake, and it’s a little bit awkward at first, but they have, you know, a little bit of innuendo banter.   And, eventually, you know, they not hook up, but they’re interested in one another, and so they’re gonna kinda get to know each other or whatever. Meanwhile, Joey sees the guy that he’s interested in, and this guy, of course, is dressed in a football jersey and, you know, like, he’s got the An entourage. And he’s got, like, the grease paint under his eyes, like, if you wanna play football or whatever. And he’s got this entourage. And Joey, who’s kind of this meek one, like you dead like the young end. He gathers up the courage to go talk to this guy, and, the guy’s friends are really rude to Joey. Now the the the guy, he’s not exactly kind either. No.   Yeah. He’s not exactly kind, but he’s not as condescending and rude. And you can kinda see that he’s a little bit embarrassed by how rude his friends are being, but he doesn’t say anything. No. And so Joey just feels totally dejected. It turns out that Jake and Eddie want to go somewhere else. They wanna go to the arcade. Toby is gonna go along with them, but Chaz is gonna stay back with, Joey and and make sure that he’s okay.   And so he takes Joey down to this bathroom underneath the club where it’s there’s not as many people, but it is kinda like the seedy bathroom where People are doing drugs and hooking up and stuff like that, but he Chaz kinda clears out the bathroom and gives him this little pep talk about how it’s gonna be okay. You know, we’ll get you cleaned up. It’s It’s not that big a deal. And, so he leaves him there in the bathroom, and he goes out. And he stands out there, outside the door. He’s already popped 1 ecstasy earlier in the night. Now he pops another one. He gets distracted by a hot guy.   So he he leaves his post or whatever. Meanwhile, Joey gets the impression and we get the impression that somebody’s watching him, and he starts looking around in the bathroom. And just as he’s about to open this one stall, somebody grabs him from behind. It’s another good jump scare, but it turns out it’s his crush. 

Clip:  Yeah. Jesus Christ, man. I didn’t even scare you. Your friend told me you weren’t here. I owe you my number. Yeah. Sorry about the war. I’m trying are in a mood tonight.   Listen. We’re all supposed to go to breakfast tomorrow. I could ditch them if I had better offer. 

Craig:  And he gives him his number, and he says, I hope I see you tomorrow. And he and he gives him a kiss, you know, just a a an innocent kiss, and then he leaves. And Joey is so happy and so excited, and he’s kind of jumping for joy, and then he gets grabbed by the killer and gets his head cut off. Oh, dude. This scene 

Todd:  This scene alone, just made me made me wanna cry. I I really my heart went out for Joey. From the very beginning, okay. He’s this guy. And then when he approaches this dude, I just felt so bad for him. He’s in the bathroom. He’s dejected. And then when this guy comes in and has his moment with him.   I was so I couldn’t be happy for Joey because I could see it coming a mile away. I knew Joey was gonna get it. You know? Oh, yeah. And, and I just felt so bad. I it really touched me pretty emotionally after. 

Craig:  He was yeah. The actor was, you know, he’s just kind of this sweet, unassuming little guy, and, It was very easy to feel for him. You know, he he felt very much like a little brother. And and that’s the vibe that you got from his other friends too. Like, Chaz, You know, he’s kind of the the slutty one or whatever. But when he takes Joey downstairs, he’s just really sweet with him. You know? And he wants to comfort him, and he wants to tell him it’s okay, and it’s not You, that guy’s just a jerk. You know, you’re a great guy.   It was very genuinely friendly, and I just I thought that was a really nice touch to the movie overall. We cut back to the other 3. And Now that Jake and Eddie are, you know, kinda coupling around a little bit, I think Toby kinda feels like a 3rd wheel. So he goes off on his own. He’s like, I need a drink. I’ll hook up with you guys later. And he goes off on his own, and he starts drinking heavily. And, you know, it’s funny because these characters are not Entirely flat.   Yes. They represent tropes and stereotypes, but they’re not entirely flat. No. This guy who is so confident in himself, so confident that he would have to be, You know, batting guys away from him. Now that he’s in drag and he doesn’t look like his normal self, he’s not getting the kind of attention that he’s used to. No. And it bothers him. Yeah.   It really bothers him. So we see that, and then we cut back to Chaz who is tripping on ecstasy. And he’s dancing, in the club with the lights, and, you know, they give us kind of point of view so we can see that he’s not necessarily hallucinating, but, you know, Tripping. And, the, killer approaches him on the dance floor and and just basically starts not gutting him, but Slicing away at him with his knife. And I guess the implication is that because, Chaz is so wasted that at first he doesn’t know. Now I don’t think that rings true. I don’t care what kind of state I was in. I would notice if somebody was cutting huge gashes into my abdomen.   But it it’s it’s not like he doesn’t realize anything is wrong. He gets a look on his face and and he, you know, touches his abdomen, and he pulls his hands up and he sees the blood. But before he can react, The guy cuts his head off, and the body just falls to the ground. Yeah. And all these people are dancing all around. And I guess You know, we’ve talked about this before. Like, if you’re gonna kill somebody, Halloween would be a good time to do it because people are expecting to see Carnage around. Now this seemed a little bit extreme to me.   Again, I think if I had seen this, I would’ve been getting off the dance Well, I But, 

Todd:  actually, I bought it hook, line, and sinker because there was a lot of strobe going on. And this this was technically, I thought, a Very well done scene in that when with the strobes. You know, we watched, what, hell hell house LLC or whatever. Yeah. And, they did a similar I mean, it’s not the same, but it’s similar where they they worked with strobe and that, crazy things would happen during the strobe light, and I thought that that was very well edited. This scene also, Extremely well edited and staged, I thought, to make it just convincing enough that on a dance floor, even though It’s crowded. And, yeah, okay, Halloween puts a little bit a little bit higher that you know, and about anything could happen. But I just sort of thought that the strobing aspect of what was going on would be enough to keep people distracted, to keep people from really noticing what’s happening.   And but but for us, As the viewer knowing what’s going on, it was still really effective, I thought, and I thought it was well edited. And, I this was a standout scene in the movie for me, quite honestly. I was impressed at how this was done openly In the middle of the dance floor, this killer thought he could get away with it and did, and supposedly chopped this guy’s head off and fell down, and everybody, Nobody really ended up noticing. Right? I I bought it. I actually bought it. I thought it was good. 

Craig:  I guess come to think of it, this is still the same venue where they did the whole Chainsaw thing. So Yeah. You know, stuff like this had been going on. 

Todd:  So maybe people wouldn’t Yeah. 

Craig:  Sure. So, anyway, then, He the killer has, you know, the 2 heads that he’s collected so far in a bag, and he’s, meanwhile, you know, all this happens within, like, 10 feet of Toby. Know, Toby’s just sitting at the bar. But just like everybody else, he’s oblivious to it. But he sees the guy walking out, and he follows him out. And this part was Sad. Like, he’s just so desperate. Like, he’s throwing himself at this guy. 

Clip:  Hey. I like your costume. You worked out. I can tell. You playing sports? What gym do you go to? Well, you’ve got enough candy already? You couldn’t use a little more? I don’t always look like this, you know? You Superficial faggot. It’s Halloween. Jesus. Frontier, look.   My driver’s license. Stop that hook. 

Craig:  And and the guy comes back. The killer comes back and, like, touches his face and, like, smears his makeup, and stuff kind of an essential way, but then he just chops his head off too. I mean, it just it happens really quickly. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Meanwhile, Eddie is starting to get worried about Joey, and so he wants to go back to the leather bar to look for him, and Jake goes with him. And it’s a crime scene now, which they don’t seem to be particularly concerned about, which is weird. Jake’s bike, I guess, is parked in the back, and the cops are giving him trouble about going to get it. But he sneaks around there, and somehow He and Eddie end up on opposite sides of this tall chain link fence, and the killer attacks Eddie from behind, but just, like, hits him. Doesn’t cut his head off or whatever. So then there’s this little chase in the alley, and I think that Eddie locks himself in, like, one of those cages from inside the venue that guys were dancing in. And the guy’s swinging his side at him, And it and it the tip of it gets him right in the eye, but he has a glass eye. Now there there’s been little things It’s to hint at this throughout.   Like, he said that he had injured his eye. Like, he had wanted to be a cop, but he couldn’t pass the physical because he had injured his eye, so he had no depth perception and and stuff like that. But it was a cool shot. You know? I mean, it’s stupid because 

Todd:  It is stupid. 

Craig:  Physically it physically wouldn’t work this way. You know? It’s not like that glass is just gonna stop this side or whatever, but it looks cool. But the cops show up, and, the killer runs away. And then we see Jake and Eddie at the police station, and, they’re kinda shaken up, but not really all that well. 

Todd:  Gonna say, It’s just so funny because Eddie just sort of plays it off. Like, he doesn’t even talk about it, which is so weird. He got stabbed in the in the glass eye by this guy, And he’s got almost nothing to say. It’s like he’s gonna go on. This was the part this was the one part of this movie that I thought was so ridiculous. It didn’t ring true at all. You know? He should be freaking out. Yeah.   I mean, they know there’s a killer loose. He just had an encounter with the killer. He almost got him with a Freaking thing. And they just okay. They’re we’re gonna go back to my house now. He doesn’t say anything. 

Craig:  Well and he goes back to his house, and none of his roommates are there. And, like, You wouldn’t even be a little bit worried. Like, you know that people were getting killed at this thing, and your roommates aren’t around. Like, you’re I don’t know. But I guess he’s just too intent on hooking up. And so they start you know, it’s flirty and Eric. You know? Yeah. Him and Jake.   And they, and Jake won’t kiss him, but they’re getting physical. And they end up in the bedroom, And, Jake uses Eddie’s handcuffs from his police outfit to handcuff him to the bed, and then Eddie said or excuse me. Yeah. That’s right. Eddie says, there’s some condoms in the bathroom. So Jake goes to get some condoms, and then he gets attacked by the killer, sliced in the abdomen and then like Chaz had. And I thought he was dead. And then the killer starts coming towards Eddie, and Eddie sees him, and he’s but he’s chained to the bed, and he’s trying to get out.   And then, you know, right as the killer is leaning over him, he gets hit in the back of the head and knocked out by Jake, who is apparently injured but not dead. 

Todd:  Yeah. 

Craig:  Eddie’s Eddie squeezes his hands out of the, handcuffs, tends to Jake briefly, name is Paul 911. Right. 

Todd:  I’m sorry. This is where it starts to go a little off the rails as far as believability goes. And, again, it’s Sure. It’s tropes and whatnot, but Eddie just totally leaves Jake. Like, he doesn’t give a shit. I mean, he supposedly does, but Jake is is half injured, and Eddie runs out of there into the kitchen to try to find a knife. And pretty soon, it’s just the Eddie show. And he knows there’s another killer in there.   He doesn’t stay by Jake’s side. He briefly tries to call for help, but, you know, it’s it’s 2004, and nobody has a cell phone. And, you know, he has this, like, remote phone, and, He tries, and it doesn’t go through. And then he notices that the actual base station or wherever those phones are supposed to plug into that they communicate with is unplugged. Anyway, there’s this whole encounter where then he he backs himself into the kitchen and into a closet in the kitchen and, into the door. And as he opens the door and backs himself in, a head falls down and all basically, all the heads of his friends are in there. And guess who else is in there? The killer who springs out. Mhmm.   This is where it got really stupid. 

Craig:  I don’t know. It didn’t bother me all that much. Hey. 

Todd:  I it’s the typical There there 

Clip:  is some 

Todd:  movie, but, you know. 

Craig:  It is typical. It’s the final showdown. And so, like, you know, the killer’s chasing them through the house. He ends up back in the bedroom. He closes the door, gets it locked. But then the the guy starts using his scythe to, like, chop the door down. So Eddie picks up Jake and puts him out on the fire escape and says, you’ll be safe here. And then he goes to the top of his closet because it where he has a gun.   It’s his dad’s gun, and he gets it, but then the killer in and knocks him down, and so he drops all the bullets. Eventually, he gets the gun and gets it loaded. The killer knocks him out onto the fire escape too, And they struggle, and the killer has him kind of, like, backed over the railing. And he drops the gun, and the gun lands on the level below. And then this part, the killer has him, like, pinned, and he comes in really close And he sticks his tongue out, and he removes Eddie’s glass eye with with his tongue Yeah. Which I just thought was So creepy. It was. Like, so creepy.   And he ends up I He ends up throwing Eddie over the side, but Eddie still has 1 half of the handcuff on and the other half Catches on the fire escape. So Eddie’s just hanging there. The killer goes after Jake, and he kinda picks up Jake and is gonna kill him. But Eddie gets the gun. He’s hanging there, but he can reach the gun. And he grabs it, and he starts Pointing, but we know he can’t aim because of his eye. And the killer uses Jake as a shield, But Jake is saying, shoot. Shoot.   Shoot. And so Eddie does. And the 1st time, he hits Jake or at least grazes him. But Jake keeps saying, shoot. Shoot. And so he he shoots again, and he he gets the killer right in the forehead, like, right in the middle of the head on his mask plate. And the killer falls over. Cut to, you know, few minutes later.   Cops. Yeah. Are there. The ambulance is there. Jake is on a stretcher. He’s going into the ambulance. He and Eddie have a sweet little scene where Eddie’s like, I’ll be there when you wake up. And then and so Jake gets put in the ambulance, gets taken off.   Eddie goes over because his sister, who’s a cop, is there, and she is helping to push the stretcher that the killer’s on. The paramedic says something, and Eddie’s like, wait a minute. He’s still alive? And the paramedic’s like, oh, yeah. But he’s a mess. You know? This guy, He’s no more dangerous than a carrot. And they push him up onto the ambulance, and Eddie is looking at his face. And the guy opens his eyes really fast and looks right at him and then opens his mouth in this creepy smile Todd reveal that he still has Eddie’s eyeball in his mouth. And so so it’s like it’s like his his mouth is almost like a third eye with Eddie’s eye just Staring out Todd it.   And then it cuts to black, and that’s the end. I loved that last image. I just thought it was hilarious. 

Todd:  That was the best ending this movie could have had. You know, the whole movie had shades of Halloween because of the the silent killer. There was so much of it that felt like Halloween. I would say Halloween crossed a little bit with Jeepers Creepers, crossed a little crossed a little bit with Trick or Treat, that episode with, the principal who was dressed up almost exactly the same way out of 

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. 

Todd:  Running around, killing people silently, right, in kind of A similar fashion. I mean, obviously, trick or treat, I think, came out after this movie and, you know, Halloween is 

Craig:  before it. 

Todd:  And so, obviously, he was taking a lot from Halloween before this, but And and then Jeepers Creepers by a little bit of the humor, you know, a little bit of that humorous nature, especially that ending. Yeah. Yeah. I just I really liked this movie, and and I thought that the, you know, the scene that you just finished describing where they were up on the balcony or the fire escape. And, the the epicness of it, of him swinging there by his, even though it was a little unbelievable of Having his, handcuff hooked over the edge, it still made the movie seem like a bigger movie than it is. I mean, this is one of those points in where, Yeah. They took this micro budget film and just made it seem like a big budget movie by this epic ending scene. And, Actually, what, Jake had said was shoot me.   Shoot me. And I I think what he was saying to Eddie was if you aim at me, you end up Hitting the other guy. 

Craig:  Oh, yeah. That makes sense. 

Todd:  Because there was this whole bit, which we didn’t really talk about. But like you said, you know, there were hints earlier about his eye not being right after for some accident. And he and Jake had had this moment where he was shooting at the car in in the carnival one of the carnival games where he couldn’t hit anything, but Jake was 

Craig:  Right. 

Todd:  They’re trying to help him aim, so it was so cute. So, anyway yeah. Yeah. It was it was it was neat how that all kind of tied together. Very cleverly written script. Well acted. I loved these guys. I loved spending time with them.   Even though they were written as tropes, they felt fresh. They felt genuine. They all seemed like friends, and I Really, really hated to see each of them die when they did die. 

Craig:  Yeah. 

Todd:  There’s so many horror movies, most of them actually, when I don’t feel emotions like that at all. And this movie really gave me those emotions in spades, and I wasn’t expecting it at all from this kind of film. I was so pleasantly surprised. 

Craig:  Good. I’m glad you liked it. I did too. And, you know, it didn’t get a wide release. It didn’t make much money, but, it was pretty much Well received critically. I mean, there were some critics who didn’t like it, but it it got a lot of positive feedback from the critics too. And, you know, I think it’s a a a good movie. And, yeah, I don’t know.   I read this, that it kind of Paved the way for all of these gay slasher movies. Well, I don’t know where they are because I haven’t seen a lot of them. But But whatever. You know? I think it was made with good intentions. I think it was made to, you know, provide some representation to people who are not Regularly represented or not represented in a serious way. You know, when a lot of the times when you have gay characters in a horror movie, they’re the comic relief, or, you know, they’re they’re very stereotypical. And and this movie, I felt like, you know, was making A real effort to just paint these characters as just people. You know? They’re they’re just people who happen to be gay, and, it’s it’s not that big a deal, and, I I like that.   I appreciate it. 

Todd:  It could have so easily gone into that territory where, you know, we’re gonna make this about them being gay or whatever, and it absolutely didn’t at all. And I actually really liked the relationships between the characters. And I especially thought that the Jake character. It was interesting how that transformed throughout the time. You have Eddie who, like we said, was sort of the, kind of unsure, kind of pretty boy character who’s interested in this Jake bad boy guy. This for me was shades of The Lost Boys. 

Craig:  Mhmm. 

Todd:  Eddie the biker is kind of distant, kind of mysterious. Even to the end, it’s kinda mysterious and kind of, kinda hard. 

Craig:  Yeah. But I also liked what they did with his character and that he you know, it turned out that he had recently been hurt by somebody, and that’s why he was so Yeah. Kind of standoffish and, like, that he wouldn’t he was down to, you know, get physical with Eddie, but he wouldn’t kiss. Mhmm. And and it was only after Eddie saved his life, then they they share a romantic kiss. And so even that character was given some depth, and I I I mean, that’s good writing. 

Todd:  It is. It was excellent and well acted too. Just really well acted. 

Craig:  Yeah. Alright. Well, thank you for listening to another episode of 2 guys in a chainsaw. We will be back the rest of this month with more Halloween Themed films, we’ve got, a lineup already kinda set up. But if you have any suggestions, still throw them our way because, we’re pretty darn flexible. If you liked this episode, you can find tons of back episodes, on our website. You say Todd. I always screw it up.   2 guys dot redfortynet.com. You can also find us on Facebook, Itunes, Google Play. Anywhere where you can find, podcast, you’ll you’ll find us. Until next week. I’m Craig 

Todd:  And I’m Todd. 

Craig:  With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Studio interference probably kept this movie from becoming great. Though Dead and Buried came packaged up with some great acting, a decent cast and creepy atmosphere, history has shown this film to have lived up to its title. Our verdict? Listen to our first episode this Halloween season to find out!

Episode 142, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Today’s film, the 1981 horror suspense movie, Dead and Buried. At least, they call it suspenseful horror on, IMDB. So we’re gonna go with that. I guess that’s a whole genre. Maybe we should just do a month of suspenseful horror movies instead of, you know, the normal not suspenseful horror movies.

Craig: Whatever.

Todd: You know, I picked this movie. It’s been in my queue for a while. I was really excited that we could do it this week. And after I started watching it from the very first scene, I said, oh my gosh. I’ve seen this before. And I had. But I did not remember how it went down. So did I watch this with you by chance, Craig?

Craig: I don’t think so, but I had seen it before too. I know that I had seen it at some point, and I didn’t when you brought it up, I remembered the title and I I remembered that Jack Albertson, the guy who plays Grandpa Joe in Willy Wonka, the original was in it, and that’s that’s all I remembered. And I think maybe there’s a reason why it wasn’t terribly memorable. No. But that’s okay. You know,

Todd: the movie the movie, I would say, plays out like an extremely long episode of Twilight Zone. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that’s kind of how it feels. It feels like the whole movie could have been, like, 30 minutes long. Yeah. Actually, I also got shades of The Wicker Man from this movie. Although, I think The Wicker Man is way better. I’ve never seen it. There was something about it. Yeah. I think it was the pacing. I think it was the deliberate pacing of it. I think it was the, impending dread that kind of covered the whole movie. I think almost from the very beginning, the whole movie just felt icky, you know. I know what you mean. It’s just kind of, like, dread and dreary and I maybe a lot of that has to do the setting is in Maine and there’s a lot of fog. Yeah. It has a psychological effect as well, I think. Just so much so many, actually, scenes were so foggy, you could hardly see what was going on sometimes. True. But, this movie starts out, with a a guy who’s a photographer who goes on to the beach of a small Maine town called Potters Bluff. And he’s met by a beautiful woman who starts basically coming on to him And, as he starts taking pictures of her, bunch of people from the town basically converge on him and pretty brutally murder him. That’s what’s Mhmm. That’s what starts out the movie. And this is going to be repeated throughout the film. Basically, the gist is that the townspeople in this movie are murdering strangers who come into Todd. And we kind of don’t know why, and we’re not sure why they’re not being caught yet. At least the sheriff in town who I guess is a new sheriff. Right?

Craig: I guess. I didn’t really get that.

Todd: Yeah. It’s

Craig: kinda weird. Like, it it seemed like he and his wife were pretty established there, but, yeah, I don’t know. Like, it it just kinda as much as they tried to make this guy seem like some big time, you know, really cool law enforcement agent, it didn’t really seem like he had his thumb on the pulse of the town. No. You know? Like like, they like, they talk about, like, oh, yeah. He’s the, you know, this big fancy college graduate, and all these big cities are trying to get him because he’s the best detective ever. Well

Todd: It takes them a while to piece this one together, doesn’t it?

Craig: Yeah. And it’s and especially since, you know, really a lot of what’s going on is going on in his own house. Yeah. Like like, by the end of the movie, you’re like, really? Like, you didn’t even have any idea of what was going Todd. I don’t know. The the movie the opening scene is is cool because, you know, like it it establishes the feel of the movie, you know. It is it’s this coastal Todd. It’s supposed to be in Maine. They shot it in California and they did a really good job of making it not look like California. Yeah. Like, it it seems very drab and dreary. And I I read that they really, in some places, had to go out of their way to make that work. Like, they had to build tents and set up these big screens to shade out the the blaring sun and make it look a little bit more dreary and more like Maine. And and they really did a good job of it. I would have thought that they had filmed this in New England had I not read that they filmed it in California, but the and and then the opening scene is Todd, you know, this this guy, we have no idea who he is except, you know, he’s taking pictures with this big fancy camera, and we see a lot through the lens. And then he meets this really hot girl who just, like, pops up. You know, it almost it could have gone in a 1000000 different ways, like, she could have been a mermaid or a siren or, like, you you have no idea who who she is. The way that she deals with this guy who she’s just met, like, she’s incredibly flirtatious from the get go. And then it’s not more than a minute and a half since they’ve met that her tits come out.

Clip: Do you want me, Freddie?

Craig: Thank you. And so then he starts approaching her, and then all of a sudden there are all of these people around. Suddenly. Yeah. Suddenly. And not only are there all these people around suddenly, but they’ve all got cameras and they’re all, like, taking pictures of him and, then they tie him up to this stake, like, with this fish netting, and they pour gasoline on his face and set him on fire. Like, what? It’s brutal. What’s happening?

Todd: Yeah. It’s brutal. And I’d have to say that about all the kills in this movie is they’re all pretty brutal, almost unnecessarily brutal. Let’s put it that way. It it feels like, to be honest, it feels like the I don’t know. I feel like maybe the intent was to produce a movie that’s going to be shocking and satisfy the gorehounds a little bit Because the camera really lingers on these deaths a lot. And the special effects, were done by Stan Winston. Stan Winston, who normally does creature effects or aesthetics and stuff, ended up, doing most of the gore and makeup in this movie, which was, interesting. Sometimes it was convincing.

Craig: I Well, see, now I thought it was pretty good. I mean, there was there Stan Winston is, you know, just you don’t get much more highly regarded than he is in terms of effects. And so when I saw his name popped up, I wrote it down because I I had I had no idea or I had forgotten that he was involved with it. And anytime I see his name, I’m excited, like, oh, it’s gonna be really good because Stan Winston did it. Mhmm. But it is very different from his typical fare. It is more just kind of slasher gore as opposed to creature effects. But the stuff that he did, I mean, it does. It looks really Todd. And and there’s one kill scene that they shot in post that he they were unable to get him back for, and, it looks crappier.

Todd: Is that the one I’m thinking of?

Craig: Is that the It’s the doctor. Oh. Yeah. The doctor. Yeah.

Todd: Poor guy.

Clip: He had

Todd: his name attached to that horrible, horrible thing. That was the one I was thinking about when I said things didn’t look Todd. Because you’re right. Everything else

Craig: is alright.

Todd: Everything else was

Craig: He didn’t he didn’t do that one. Everything else he did and it it looks pretty good and it is pretty brutal. It but it’s funny because it almost seems like this movie, it it I don’t wanna say it wasn’t sure what it wanted to be. I think that it knew what it wanted to be, but it’s just kind of a kind of a weird mix because it’s really more it reminded me a lot of an pardon me, Todd, if I pronounce this incorrectly, but a giallo film, like, the ones that we’ve watched, like

Todd: Yeah. Deep

Craig: Red or it it felt like that. It was more about, like, mystery and suspense and trying to figure out what was going on. And a suspense and trying to figure out what was going on and a lot of, you know, red herrings and, you know, it was more about the suspense and and the I don’t know, it just it it was a little bit it was a little bit, it was a little bit, it was a little bit, it was a little bit, it was a little bit, it was a little bit, it was a little bit, it was a little bit, it was a little bit, it was a little bit, I don’t know, it just it was a little bit it was kind of an odd combination.

Todd: I agree with you. And and I guess it was an interesting juxtaposition and position, maybe purposely that way that you’ve got this really suspenseful movie with this detective story essentially is what it is for quite a while. But then has all this what you don’t normally get in, you know, this kind of movie, which is this brutal gore and these brutal killings just kind of up close and personal. So you’re right. I think that adds to it. And it’s funny that, you know, you mentioned giallo film. And like I had said earlier, this reminded me a lot of The Wicker Man for many of the same reasons. The Wicker Man pretty much follows a constable or detective from out of town who comes in and tries to figure out what’s going on in this town. He is very much an outsider and it also kind of is is very dreary and slow paced and has this just creeping sense of of doom over the whole proceedings as it goes along. And I felt like even though this guy, like we said, is supposed to be from this town and he’s the sheriff, he very much feels like an outsider to everything that’s going on. It’s like he knows all these people.

Craig: Which was weird.

Todd: Yeah. It was weird.

Craig: Yeah. And ultimately, I think that that’s the problem that I had with the movie because, I I don’t wanna spoil things right from the beginning, but it just seemed like the antagonist of the movie could have dealt with this police officer much earlier and just taken care of him. Like like, why was this one guy allowed to have all these suspicious? I mean, when it comes okay. So we follow this sheriff. His name is Dan. And, that one guy gets killed, and then we see that we know that it’s a setup, but the it’s a it’s set up so that it looks like he was in a car accident and and got burned up in the car accident. But even sheriff Dan is suspicious about that from the get go and doesn’t feel like it makes any sense, and he wonders if it’s a murder and that it has just been staged. And then there are subsequently more murders that are clearly not staged and that clearly are murders. Ultimately, what’s going on it’s not as though it’s entirely obvious even though by halfway through the movie, I felt like it was entirely obvious what was going on. But it just seemed like he should’ve been able to figure it out or that the person or persons perpetrating these things should have been very it should have been very easy for them to just get him out of the equation. Yeah. You know, like, like, why was he allowed to keep poking around? It just

Todd: They have no trouble getting everybody else out of the equation, you know? Right. Unless it’s this sense of because it is the peep all the people who are getting murdered are strangers to the town. So if that is the goal, if that is kind of the modus operandi, then over time it’s it’s gotta be just the strangers who are being killed. And maybe they just let their own be for a while. It doesn’t make sense.

Craig: But well, it doesn’t make right. And the thing is we know from the get go that virtually everybody in town is in on this.

Todd: Yeah, we do.

Craig: We know that from the very very beginning and, you know, there’s there’s there’s cool stuff in this movie, like, there’s a young Robert England in it. That’s awesome. I love Robert England. The coroner is played, as I mentioned before, by Jack Albertson who is this just this cool guy. Like, I absolutely love the original Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. I I grew up on it. I love it. And Grandpa Joe in that movie is just such a cool character, and and Jack Albertson was just this veteran. You know? Like, he started out in vaudeville and did burlesque, and then, you know, in his older age continued making films. And, like, he’s just such a cool guy, and he plays Dobbs, this kinda creepy coroner. I say creepy, but it’s not even really all that creepy. He’s just kind of,

Todd: like Eccentric.

Craig: Right. Eccentric and just kind of, like, no bullshit. Like

Todd: he has a nice little monologue when Danny, goes to visit him.

Craig: Yeah. Look at this. Look at the work I’ve done. This is an art, and I am the artist. What can you remember about a sealed box, a sealed casket? That is obscene. That is the death of memory. The cosmetologist gives birth. I make souvenirs.

Todd: And that’s one thing that’s quite nice about this film is even though I felt like it could have been shortened, the plot does move. It does. Every scene, something happens that that moves things along. In fact, it’s it’s pretty economical in that way. It’s just that we have so many of these scenes that move it along far beyond our need to to be to have this thing revealed to us. You know, when he goes to see him for the first time, it’s actually quite cool that he has put on his, music, his old timey music. And this guy is obviously an older guy. Grew up in a different era. And even though this movie takes place in the well, I guess, early eighties, late seventies, it’s supposed to be contemporary film. I just got this sense that everything was much older than that. You know? Even in their homes, the decorations, the almost almost down to the cars they were driving. I don’t know if the idea was that this town is just supposed to be a really old town that nothing has changed for years.

Craig: Well, it reminded me of, like, HP Lovecraft. Mhmm. Like, the this this coastal town that’s just so quaint and quaint even beyond quaint. Like, it it just seems a little bit rundown. And I feel like the movie intended us to feel that way because the very first like, when the credits come up, it comes up over a still photograph of the town that’s in black and white that makes it look like it was made in the 19 thirties or forties or something like that. And that’s Yeah. It it it has that you know it’s contemporary because they’re driving around in cars and they’re you know, they’ve got scientific equipment to test tissue samples and stuff. So you know it’s contemporary, but the town itself feels out of time. Yeah. And that I mean, that’s kinda cool. I I liked it. You’re right. That that monologue that that Dobbs gives, he is so passionate about he actually likes it when people come in mangled because then he’s able to do his art and and make them look the way that they had looked in life or better. I don’t think about that really, but I I suppose it’s true, you know. Yeah. Corners and and funeral directors, they they are artists to a certain extent, I suppose. They have to make a dead body look somewhat lifelike and, you know, please, the mourners and those of us who are left behind. It was it is an interesting concept.

Todd: I thought so. I I thought it was actually quite nice. I mean, like you said, I never really thought of it that way and everybody should be at least passionate about what they do and their job. And so, of course, you know, this coroner, especially as old as he is, who’s been at it for such a long time, is so passionate about it. And later on, we understand there’s some significance to this. But early on, it’s not really hinted at that he’s in on this. Although, you think, well, he’s the mortician in Todd. He’s gotta be in on it. And I feel like that is how the movie kind of progresses. It’s really unsettling and it’s really off putting because, like you said, we know. We’ve seen from the very beginning that pretty much everyone on the in the town is doing these killings. I mean, we see their faces. Yeah. We see mobs of them doing this. The second guy who dies is a guy on the dock. And he’s drunk and he’s stumbling around and, you know, he gets pinned up against the wall and strangled and stabbed a bunch of times with different things. And all this is we see it, you know, in gruesome detail, but here’s, Dobbs’ own assistant standing there taking pictures, of it again and everybody else is in on it. And so you wonder, as you’re watching the movie, you’re always second guessing. Like, well, there are people throughout this film that are helping the sheriff along in his investigation. I mean, they’re giving him valuable information that lets him know that something is amiss. Right. And you got it. You’re kind of retracing your steps and going, but did that per wasn’t that person involved in the murder? Was he? Was he not? I’m not sure. Even I found myself, and I think actually this is kind of a a knock in the movie’s favor maybe, is is sowing those seeds of confusion. Maybe it’s a cheap way of doing it, but I was kind of constantly questioning and wondering why are these people helping them along so much?

Craig: Yeah. Well, and that that leads really to what my favorite part of the movie was. I mean, because we we see these people and like you said, we see their faces like one of the the lady that lit the first guy on fire is the waitress at the diner and, you know, we see her and people interact with her, and she just seems totally normal. Like, nothing is going on. And and same thing. At at one point, you know, we see that Robert England, who is just another one of the townspeople, like, we see him. We see their faces clear as day. So we know that they are part of it, but then in everyday life, they are just acting like nothing you you they’re not acting suspiciously really at all in everyday life. Until then, they’re attacking more people later on down the line. But my favorite part of the movie is that, Dan’s wife is implicated really really early on And, like, people keep saying things to him, like, if something weird is going on, well, you should ask your wife. You should ask your wife. And all these really suspicious things keep happening with his wife. Like, at one point, he finds a book about witchcraft in her drawer and it, like, this And a ceremonial bed. A ceremonial dagger. And anytime anything like that happens, she’s just like, oh, like, she just has some casual excuse for it. What the hell are you doing with these?

Clip: It’s for my class. I’m gonna give a lecture in witchcraft.

Craig: Witchcraft. And why in god’s name would you wanna teach him that?

Clip: Kids love creepy things. Keeps them from being bored in my class.

Craig: So you pick witchcraft?

Clip: I just thought of it. I don’t know why I’m defending myself to you. You’re grilling me like a prime suspect.

Craig: And when Dan reads in the book, it talks about reanimating dead corpses. And, like, he’s always immediately suspicious of her, and, like, she had some connection to that first guy who was murdered. Dan, at one point, goes to the hotel where this guy, because he wasn’t a townsperson, was staying, and the hotel guy was, like, oh, yeah. He was here, but I haven’t seen him in a couple days. But your wife came and visited him. Maybe you should talk to her, and so, of course, he’s suspicious, like, why is my wife meeting some guy in a hotel? But she’s, like, oh, no. He sells photography equipment to the school. I was just talking to him about that stuff. Like, she always has and and the way that she delivers it is always, you know, believable. Like, it sounds pretty innocent,

Todd: but And it’s quick.

Craig: Yeah. And but things, like, things just keep piling up on her to the point where I’m, like, she’s she’s in yeah. Like, what is wrong with you? Like, she has to be in on it. Mhmm. But that actress, whoever she is, I don’t know. I didn’t write her down. I I looked her up. She didn’t do a lot. She did some movies, and she did some soap operas in her later years. Flash Gordon.

Todd: Yeah. One of my favorites from childhood. That’s what I remember.

Craig: But she does a good job of just, you know, it feels very natural and it feels like a very natural thing between a husband and a wife just, like, oh, no, silly. You know, like, I’ve got an explanation for that. And so on the one hand, while as a viewer, it seems like, oh my god. You’re an idiot. Like, how could she not be connected to this with all of this evidence? At the same time, I’m thinking, you know, if she were my wife and she had these explanations for things, I would just be inclined to believe her, you know, like Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. It’s true.

Craig: But so I don’t know.

Todd: I mean, I think there’s a denial aspect. That’s that’s very real. That’s the last thing you want to suspect. So you’re gonna hang on to any thread that you can, that that proves it wrong, however tenuous that thread may be. And I I thought that was pretty believable in that respect even though, like you say, it it he’s not a very good detective Todd be able to not kind of piece all this together when it’s happening right under his nose, at least so quickly. Now he is piecing it together but it’s happening awfully slowly and it’s like every tiny little piece of the puzzle has to fall into place before he finally figures out what’s going on. Whereas we, the viewer, got it like you said like halfway through the movie. We didn’t know all the details. We didn’t know why. We didn’t know motivation. But at least, you know, we kind of knew, okay, what’s basically happening is all of these corpses are being reanimated.

Craig: Right.

Todd: And they’re be populating the town. And one of the shocking moments of this movie is when a family comes into town and, their car breaks down and they go into the diner and they’re looking for for help. The woman at the diner says, oh, so and so will go pump some gas for you. George or something

Craig: like that.

Todd: Freddie. And Freddie turns around, and we see that Freddie is the photographer

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: From the beginning of the movie. But he’s acting, you know, just like the guy who bumps gas at the gas station, and he’s not disfigured at all. And it’s like, woah. What in the world is going on here? Again, we we figure out for some reason people who are being killed in these horribly disfigured maiming ways are being reanimated, then they look fine and they’re just populating the town here. Which then if you have watched enough of these movies, I guess, you know, you make that other leap thinking, okay, well maybe most of the people in town here are reanimated corpses. Right? And that’s kind of I don’t know. That’s kind of where I was about 45 minutes into the movie.

Craig: Yes. I I I think that the movie shows its hand too early. I think that we figure out what’s going on a little bit too early. And then, like, they do some things to try to throw you off. Like, okay, folks. Fine. When it comes down to it, it it’s the coroner. It’s Dobbs. Yeah. He he he’s the one behind it. And I and I feel like about 45 minutes into it, you figure that out, but then they try to throw in scenes that make you begin to question. Like like, the coroner will go to the sheriff and be like, a body’s been stolen from the morgue.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: So you gotta help me. And, like, I know that you’re behind it. So, like, what? I understand. Right.

Todd: Yeah. If you’re trying to cover his tracks or something, you know, but but he’s clearly not. By the end of the movie, he doesn’t give a shit.

Craig: You know? And and and and the thing is, like, when I say the movie shows that hand, it’s hand, like, they literally lay out exactly what is going on. Dan found the witchcraft book and it said something about reanimating corpses or something. And then then we see a scene with his wife who is very pretty and very nice. Like, she she doesn’t seem like she would be villainous. And, ultimately, I guess, really, she’s not, to be fair. Yeah. But we see her in her class and she’s talking to these kids and she’s telling them she’s teaching them about voodoo, which is just weird anyway to be teaching, like, 3rd graders about voodoo, but she talks to them about voodoo zombies, And she tells them that they’re not like typical zombies or they’re not like the zombies that you think of, like, lumbering around looking for brains or whatever, but rather they are just corpses that have been reanimated and are being controlled by somebody else, which if I’m not mistaken is pretty accurate to voodoo lore. Yeah. She says that the only difference is their master has to cut out their heart and conceal it somewhere, and then the master is in complete control of them and can make them do whatever he wants them to do. And so she has just laid out exactly what is happening.

Todd: Oh, like, she goes further than that. She even says

Clip: There are even reports

Craig: of a tribe

Clip: in central Peru whose residents included a great number of these walking dead who were completely at the will of their master. And they roamed around the mountains killing strangers and bringing them back to their master.

Todd: She implicates her own town in this thing.

Craig: And and they have to die a violent death in order to be reanimated in this way. And you mentioned that family. There’s a scene where the the, you know, the family comes through town and, of course, everybody acts all nice, but then their car breaks down and they end up in, like, this abandoned house and they’re besieged by all these townspeople. And you think that they get away, but then when the the the wife, Dan’s wife, is teaching, you see that the son from the family is now one of the students in the classroom. So, and and I didn’t catch that. Yeah. He was. And also Robert England, at some point, pulls their car out of the ocean. So, they they didn’t get away.

Todd: And that’s so stupid like that little bit, where they, crash in front of this house and there’s a light that flickers in the house and the mom says, I saw a light over there. We should go there to get some help. And he’s like, oh, it’s all it’s obviously abandoned. So, like, no. We need to go. Okay. Well, they go to the door. And then, they go inside. And they’re like, hello? And it’s one of those deals where the door swings wide open and they walk in and everything’s covered with, like, a thick 1 inch layer of dust, and there are cobwebs everywhere. It’s clearly abandoned. He even says that, yet still, they’re, like, walking through the house. Like, I don’t know. I saw a light upstairs. Yeah. Right.

Craig: Maybe you could find somebody.

Todd: And they go in and they’re like blowing dust off of everything and everything’s creaking and all. Well, let me check the basement. So then he goes, like, lights a match to go down into the basement to look then he comes up. Well, nobody down in the basement. Well, duh. You had to light a match to go down Right.

Craig: In this creepy basement

Todd: of this obviously abandoned house.

Craig: It was it was kinda spooky. I mean, we knew what was gonna happen because we’ve seen it happened over and over again, but, when they’re walking around in the house, it’s dark in the house and and at least there’s moonlight or whatever outside, and we see people stalking around outside. So we know that, like, through the windows, like, we just see their silhouettes or whatever. The shadows. So we know they’re yeah. So we know they’re in trouble and they are. And I mean, then that’s what it comes down to.

Todd: Even though it’s rolling my eyes, the fact that they were still wandering around in this house looking for help, that’s so classic. You know? It’s so classic. Mhmm. It was so classic haunted house because then they run upstairs, and then they start trying to get out because the townspeople are coming up the stairs after them very slowly, and then they start opening the doors, and every single door that they open upstairs has somebody who was just sitting on a Craig, holding a knife, waiting for them to open a door so they can look at it in a creepy way.

Craig: That was pretty funny. Like, they had been totally alone, and then all of a sudden, the house is

Todd: just full of people. People. Prepped and ready for them. Yeah. Oh, then there’s a woman hitchhiker who makes the worst judgment call ever when when she flags down a truck and, starts to get in and the the door swings open the truck and the guy inside goes, are you sure you want me to pick you up? I could be some creepy weirdo.

Craig: Yeah. An old pervert. And and the back window of his truck is busted out, like like, really? You you might wanna wait for the next guy. She’s like, no. It’s cool. And then she gets in the car. And this was a weird scene to me, and I I don’t remember if I read that this was a scene that they added in later. I don’t remember. But it was a weird scene to me because it felt kind of like Friday 13th where it well, in Friday 13th in the very beginning, a girl, one of the counselors, gets picked up. She’s hitchhiking to get to the camp, and she gets picked up. And they’re making a concentrated effort not to show who it is that’s picking her up. It’s super obvious. Who it is that’s picking her up. It’s super obvious. But then ultimately, it’s it’s totally inconsequential. It’s just one of the town’s people.

Todd: No. It’s the it’s the guy who was murdered.

Craig: Which one?

Todd: The dock guy.

Craig: The sailor. Oh, okay. Well, then I was wrong. But it’s funny. He picks her up, and he drives her, like, a 100 yards down the Todd. And then and then he pulls a camera out of his glove box and takes a picture of her, and then they are besieged by the rest of the town’s per people and somebody smashes her face with a rock. But we we

Todd: get a really cool scene after this and that is when Dobbs has her on the table, and, he is reconstructing her face. It is so cool.

Craig: It it is really neat. I I I can’t I can’t begin to imagine that it’s at all realistic.

Todd: It can’t be. There’s no way.

Craig: But it looks but it looks really good.

Todd: Yeah. He just basically strips her down to the, you know, her face down to the bone because actual well, because his, she is smashed I think with a, she’s the one who smashed with a rock. Right?

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. Over half of her face. And so it shows there she is. And yeah, sure enough, half of her face smashed in with a rock. But then he’s like, I will make you beautiful again. And he it’s it’s almost like time lapse, essentially. Yeah. Where, he strips her down to bone and then slowly builds her face back up to where it was before. And, as he pops an eye like a false eye in her last socket, we get a single shot like a really long shot of it panning back up to him And he goes out and he, you know, turns off the lights and leaves. And at the same time, somebody steps out of the shadows who was, like, waiting behind the door. And it pans back down to her and she sits right up.

Craig: Yeah. I didn’t understand this scene and I felt like it was a red herring. Mhmm. Because because it made it seem like, okay. So Dobbs fixed her up, and then he left. And then somebody else came to her body and then that’s when she was reanimated. And I thought that the the movie was trying to mislead us, but I I still don’t understand what was happening there. Do you know who was that?

Todd: I don’t know. Was it his assistant? I have no idea. I I don’t think it even matters.

Craig: No. I mean, ultimately, it doesn’t.

Todd: It is. It’s setting us up for that red herring when Dobbs runs back, to the, cop not long after that and says that the body was missing, stolen or whatever. And of course, this alarms him because he’s starting to get these feelings. And so then he checks up on Dobbs. And this is, you know, early 19 eighties and so he’s sending a telex.

Craig: I don’t know why

Todd: I don’t know why he couldn’t just make a phone call. I’m not really sure. But anyway, he’s sending a telex down, to the state office or whatever to try to get more information on Dobbs. And what comes back and this is what’s confusing to me too. What comes back on Dobbs eventually is that Dobbs was like disbarred. He was caught doing inappropriate things with corpses. It’s not really said what and was, stripped of his New Jersey license or whatever and sent away. And that Dobbs came and that was like in 1970 something. Right. And so Dobbs has only been in this town for, like, maybe 5 or 6 years. He’s only been the corner to this town. He’s a new guy. He moved in there. And to me, that just throws off sort of everything about the movie. It throws I don’t know. It just kind of makes a huge plot hole for me. And we’ll talk about as we get to the end here, which I guess we’re coming to right now, aren’t we?

Craig: Pretty much. There’s this business where, the sheriff Dan’s wife had given him some film. And, again, this is it’s just so weird. It it’s almost like throughout the movie, he’s being intentionally given these leads and

Todd: Yes.

Craig: He’s just not picking up on them. His wife is doing all of this suspicious stuff, but every time she has an explanation, he’s, like, okay. At one point, she gives him some film and he’s, like, and she says, go have this developed for me. And he’s like, well, what is it? And she says, well, my students shot some film. I thought that it would be a good way for them to learn about narrative, which sure. Fine. I teach English. Yeah. I I that that’s cool. It’s a good strategy. Whatever. But he forgets to take it at first, and she reminds him, and then, he finally takes it. And all of these things are adding up all at once. I’m gonna jump back really quick and get back to this film, but there is also a point where when the family was escaping, the sheriff Dan just happened to see them racing out of town as he was coming down the street. And as he was coming down the street, he hit one of the guys who was chasing him. And he checked on the guy and it seemed like the guy was dead, But then he looks over, and on the grill of his car is a severed arm that is moving on its own. And then the dead guy gets up and grabs the arm and runs away. So he has so he scrapes some skin cells off of his grill and sends it to a doctor, then more goes on, and then later in he checks in and the guy’s like, no. These skin cells have been dead for 3 or 4 months. So there’s that. So another weird clue. And then finally, he gets this film developed and when he looks at when he plays it, it’s this weird black and white film that, like, pans up on this rundown old house and then goes up to the window of the house and then it sees that the townspeople are kind of gathered around, like, looking in the windows. And it’s a couple of people doing it on a bed. I didn’t say fucking because I know you’d bleep me. I like the long

Todd: pause where you tried to think of an alternate way of saying that.

Craig: Like, that’s so hard for you. It is hard for me. But, so and so and then, like, all the townspeople are standing around while these these people are, you know, making the beast or whatever. And

Todd: Bumping uglies.

Craig: Yeah. And then it’s revealed that the woman on the bottom is his wife and he freaks out and not only is his wife making love to somebody else, but then she pulls out that big ceremonial dagger and starts stabbing this person and he’s like, no no. I mean, I feel like there’s even a little bit more that goes on, but at this point, he’s suspicious of Dobbs and he’s gotten this, you know, intel from the state or whatever about Dobbs. And so he goes to confront him at the coroner’s office, which I guess basically leads to the climax, I guess.

Todd: Yeah. The climax of the movie. So Dobbs is waiting for him, and he’s got a whole setup. He’s got, like, 8 different projectors going, shooting behind him. All I could think about was, you know, in at the end, I was thinking, like, wow, this guy I I was just trying to imagine the process that he went through setting up all of these different projectors and timing them to get, like, the right bits of film to go up behind him in such a creepy way, you know, like The Wizard of Oz. Really quick on a show, you know. You see these scenes in movies where there’s this big dramatic thing, and nobody ever really stops to think about all the time and hookup that was required to do that, you know. Right.

Craig: But it it also bought this scene also bothered me. It looks really cool. And, the guy, Dobbs, you know, standing behind his desk with all these projectors, like, projecting through the dust in the room. So, you know, it’s like these, like, rays of light projecting through the room and then these videos projecting all around. And it’s all these videos of the people getting killed. But it bothered me because throughout the whole movie, we’ve seen these things happening. And weren’t the townspeople always taking photographs? Yes. Like like, I never saw anybody with a video camera.

Todd: No. Me neither. Well or or a film camera in this case. Yeah.

Craig: No. I didn’t see it either. Yeah. But okay. Whatever. It looks cool. So Dobbs’ big reveal is that and I think

Todd: it’s if he’s revealing it at the same time that the detective is accusing him, he’s like, yes, this is my, he’s able to reanimate reanimate dead bodies. And, he says, how do you do it? And he says, oh, I’ll never tell.

Craig: I love that. I know. Love that. Wow. What a cop out. How’d you do it? All that black magic. Call it a medical breakthrough. I’ll take my secret to the grave. Right. And so, like, it is a cop out. Like, well, I’ll never tell. So and he doesn’t. So we don’t know. He I just can do it. That’s good enough. Moving right along.

Todd: And so he goes Todd this big long monologue and it kinda amounts to nothing. And I guess this is where, and, I’m just I’m just so confused as to his motive. Yeah. Why? What is the end game here? Like, he just likes to be able to do it?

Craig: I guess. I mean, I I think that we’re supposed to think that he’s one of these people who is so impassioned about his art that he will do anything for his art, And he calls all of these people my children. These are my children.

Todd: Mhmm.

Craig: So I, you know, I I think it’s just kind of a masturbatory kind of, you know, Todd complex kind of thing.

Todd: And, he calls his wife in, and his wife comes walking in. She’s, you know, stepford wife, like a robot on repeat or something. And, he turns around, the detective does, and Todd shooting at her. And of course, it doesn’t stop her which just, you know, proves the point.

Craig: Well, I have to say that this scene was actually a little bit heartbreaking to me, because he tells Dobbs, Dan says, what did you do to my wife? And Dobbs says, oh, Janet, she’s my masterpiece. She was my first. I found her. She had, crashed her car into the river and she was dead and bloated and I brought her back, and and she’s my best work. Whereas, everybody else that I’ve reanimated needs touching up every couple weeks. She can go for a month without needing to be touched up and meanwhile, Dan is hearing this and you know, he’s heartbroken, you know, he’s hearing that his wife is dead and has been dead.

Todd: And think of the implications of that.

Craig: Well, well, and see and that’s the you think of the implications of that, and then you think how happy must their marriage have been if he didn’t realize over the past 6 months that she’s been dead.

Todd: Okay. Yeah. Well, he said I gave her to you.

Craig: Yeah. And he also says things like, you know, I he says they only they don’t even know they’re dead. They only remember what I allowed them to remember, which what? How exactly does that work? Right? I I don’t know.

Todd: But Is there a computer? Is there programming involved?

Craig: Right. Right. He’s like, I gave her love and I gave her sex and I, you know, gave her passion and life and and then she comes in and Dan has to face her and she’s talking to him and it’s just very Stepford Wife. And and you realize that that’s what it’s really been all along. Yeah. It’s not like I watch these movies and I think, oh, how would I feel if my husband were dead reanimated? But in the moment, I I was thinking, you know, that that would not only be so sad to find out that your spouse was dead, but then that you had been living with them and it hadn’t really been them, that it just been a facsimile of them for Yeah. However long. I mean, it it it got me a little bit.

Todd: It touched me Todd. I’m not gonna lie. Yeah. No. It touched me as well. I was I was also feeling a bit of emotion there. Like I said, it just reminds me of The Wicker Man so much. But once again, you haven’t seen The Wicker Man. We need to do that sometime so we can talk about it more. But, but yeah. Yeah. So so, you know, he’s shooting at her and it doesn’t work. And so he had been threatening to shoot Dobbs. And, Dobbs was like, do it. Do it because then I can join them. You know, what are you waiting for?

Craig: Which also doesn’t make any sense to me because if he’s a black magic guy, like, how does physician heal thyself, you know? Like, I don’t I don’t get it. You know, but then also it was also sad to me when, Dan finally shoots his wife. He shoots her several times and it’s like she’s surprised. But then eventually, after she’s been shot several times, she says

Clip: Dad. Dad.

Craig: Please bury me. Please. There.

Clip: Bear with me.

Craig: She actually crawls her way into one of the exhumed graves from here

Todd: in the movie. After she crosses the name out and writes her own above it. Yeah.

Craig: That was hilarious.

Todd: How bad could you get?

Craig: I mean, really, guys? Really? Well, the funny thing is this movie was written as a horror comedy and then due to studio intervention, they changed it to straight up horror. So I wonder if that was just one of the few relics of the comedy because it’s laugh out loud funny. Like Yeah. Seriously, the the tombstone where she is just crossed out, just xed out the name and then scrawled her name, just her first name in all caps above it, Janet. Oh, I don’t and then he does bury her. I don’t remember if you said it already. He he does. He shoots Dobbs, several times in the abdomen. And then we see Dobbs, like like, embalming himself, I guess. Like, he sticks like the big embalming needles into himself or something. I don’t know. And then and then Dan is outside and he he buries Janet. And then everybody else everybody else from the whole movie in the town shows up, and they’re starting to show their wear. Like, everything’s been touched up in a while.

Todd: The the warranty on every single one of them has just come close to expiring all at the same time. Suddenly, every single person he’s interacted with has little bits of flesh falling off of their face. And they’re all laying flowers at her Craig, and he’s sit laying there screaming and and, you know, overwhelmed by it all. Yeah. And they converge on him and you think that maybe they’re now they’re gonna get him Todd, but he manages to break free and he runs back into the mortuary. And there, almost like magic, is is the doctor back behind the with his suit back on and everything back behind the desk as though nothing had happened. I guess his self embalming was a success. I guess. And he says to him, oh, there’s one more detail you need to watch. He says, look up. And he looks up at that film, that he had seen earlier, the black and white film of his wife, the bumping uglies with this guy and stabbing him. And I guess he had just turned away too soon every other time he’d seen this video, which is another silly part. It turns out that, the the person she was having sex with flops best flops over onto his back, and it’s him. Yeah. And then his warranty runs out. He raises his hands to his face, no, and tries to, like, claw out his eyes or something. And when he brings his hands in front of him, his hands are kind of broken and twisted and and bent. Freeze Craig, bring Todd credits.

Craig: Yeah. Well, and Dobbs says, come over here, I’ll fix that for you. Yeah. And, like, I don’t know. I mean, it’s it’s kind of a cool ending, but at the same time, it just doesn’t make any sense. Like, was this all just like an amusement for Dobbs? Like, if if he controls what his reanimated corpses do and think and remember, why wouldn’t he have just programmed the sheriff to not be suspicious? Yeah. You know, like like, what was this whole mystery like, what was the purpose of this mystery from the get go? Like Right. Did he just need something to entertain him for a while?

Todd: Or did he go off the rails a little bit? Maybe maybe Danny something snapped in his Craig, in his reprogrammed Craig, and he he he got a little deprogrammed or something. I mean, I I guess that’s possible. But then again, why go through all of this rigmarole to bring him back in? Why not just take him out like the townspeople are taking out everybody else?

Craig: That’s what I was thinking through the whole movie. Like, if he’s suspicious, what the whole town’s in on it, just kill him. Like Yeah. That’s I was thinking that through the whole movie, like, I don’t get why they’re not just killing him. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Yeah. But and then you find out, well, he’s already dead and he’s already a part of it. Okay. I mean, I don’t know. I it’s interesting and it’s different, you know, I guess in in terms of you know that I’m not a huge fan of zombie movies, period. But I It doesn’t really play

Todd: like a zombie movie though.

Craig: No, not really. Exactly. It’s it’s different and I know I we’ve talked about it before that, the voodoo lore of zombies is very different than our American take on them. They’re not just rambling, you know, brain eating monsters. They are literally somebody who’s just being controlled by somebody else. And I actually think that that is far more interesting than just you get bit and then you’re like a rabid dog. So, you know, that’s that’s cool. Whatever. And it was original and, you know, I really liked seeing Jack Albertson in it. You know, this was his last feature film that was released in the theaters, that he actually acted in. He voiced a character in The Fox and the Hound after this, and he did a couple of made for TV things. But, apparently, he was riddled with cancer during the whole filming of this movie, and he was not well at all. And, he made it to the premiere, but he was on an oxygen tank and in a wheelchair, and he died just a couple of months after. And, you know, I I have such admiration for him just because he is such an iconic part of my childhood. It was cool to see him in a very different role and and he does a good job. And I would say, overall, the movie’s well acted. It’s not as though I I thought it was terrible. I I just ultimately, I just thought it was just okay.

Todd: Yeah. I I think I gotta I’m gonna give the movie a lot of credit. I mean, I thought the cinematography was fantastic. There were so many great shots in here, so many clever, creative shots, interesting things with points of view. More than once, these long going on shots that almost called attention to themselves. They were so clever. The atmosphere and the mood that the movie created was really imposing from the get go. And I’ll say that until the end, you know, until it’s all finished, there’s a nice even dispersion of red herrings and things that keep you guessing as to what’s going on. It’s not until the end of the movie that it all kind of falls apart for you. You go, oh, so it was exactly what I thought it was. Right. And and that and what it what what it is is pretty darn ridiculous and has all these holes in it. It’s like a fan It’s like a really well made film in service to a terrible script. Yeah. And if the script would have been better, you know, anything in the hands of this cast and crew that made this movie would have been outstanding. So it it as a as a piece of art, you know, it works. But as a plot, you know, that that final piece of it, that plot just isn’t there. It doesn’t work. And it’s just ends up seeming silly by the end of it. And, it’s such a shame.

Craig: Yeah. The fact that it was conceived as a horror comedy, if it were if it were played as a horror comedy, you would excuse those discrepancies and and those things that didn’t make it. You would just excuse it because, you know, it’s it’s a comedy. It’s meant to be silly. It’s not meant to be taken that seriously. But by removing that comedic element, then I feel like, oh, well, I am taking it seriously and so, therefore, these plot holes bother me. Yeah. But, you know, whatever it is what it is.

Todd: The brutality of it keeps it from being too much of a comedy. You know? I mean, the the the the death scenes are not I don’t see how they could be reshaped or recut or anything else was filmed to make them any funnier than they ended up being, and I can imagine how dark that would be.

Craig: There wasn’t as much gore included when it was intended to be a comedy. The studio insisted that they shoot additional scenes Todd to make it gorier. Like, the sailor the drunk sailor getting killed on the dock, not in the original script. It was an afterthought that they put in later. And and they restructured things like the hitchhiker scene was supposed to take place before the family scene, which it didn’t in the end. And I read that if you have an eagle eye and you’re watching, that hitchhiker is in the murderous mob who stalks the family Oh. Before she’s even introduced and killed. So I I think that this may also some of our complaints about it, I think, are due to studio interference, which is unfortunate, but it happens all the time. I mean, you know, that’s just the industry and you just Yeah. Kinda yet to kinda just deal with

Todd: it. That’s true.

Craig: Well, we we’ve gotta judge it on

Todd: its, you know, merits as as the final product.

Craig: So Right. Right.

Todd: Yeah. What are you gonna do? Yeah. I’m I’m kinda with you on the same. I just I I feel like it’s okay. I’m probably not gonna see it again. Twice is is way too many times. Twice is one time too many. Yeah. -Well, thanks again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Facebook, where you can like us, our page, share that with a friend, have a conversation with us about what you thought of this episode, what you thought about the movies. Were we fair, or is this just like your favorite movie ever? Please let us know, and we’d love to Craig you over the cold sport. No. I’m just kidding. No. We we have great relationships with all of our listeners. If you have any requests too, you can feel free to post them there as well or write to us directly. You can find our website, 2 guys dot redfortynet.com, where we have all of our back catalog posted. You can stream us live from there as well directly through your browser, and, you can catch a few written movie reviews as well. Until next time. I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Todd was thrilled to finally introduce Craig to the official Troma catalog, and he selected one of their most recent horror-comedy-musicals that more or less accurately represents the notorious low-budget movie house’s wacky, no-holds-barred, punk sensibilities. What did Craig think of it? Have a listen to find out.

Episode 141, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd

Craig: And I’m not speaking to you.

Todd: This is gonna be a short episode, isn’t it? Oh, man. I am you know, I actually texted Craig earlier this week and asked, if he had seen the movie, and he said, not yet. And I said, I figured as much because I hadn’t gotten a text from him yet that said, I hate you.

Craig: You were right.

Todd: Yeah. I’ve been threatening to do a trauma movie here for quite some time, and Craig had never really seen a trauma movie. We did Death by Temptation, a few weeks ago, and that was produced by Troma, but it wasn’t really what I would call a Troma movie because it was just the financing, that they helped out with. They didn’t really have anything to do with the production, and, they released the movie. So, this movie that we’re doing right now was my choice, is 2,006 Poultrygeist: Night of the Chicken Dead. If you can’t tell from the title what kind of movie this is, or if you don’t know Troma, you might be a little surprised. So I’m gonna go into my little rant here, my little spiel here about Trauma. Trauma is a if if you haven’t ever heard of Trauma, Trauma is a independent movie studio that started back in, late seventies, by 2 guys named Lloyd Kaufman and Michael Hertz. And they went on to become responsible for at least a couple of the more iconic characters that we have. Most notably, I think everybody probably knows the toxic avenger. The toxic avenger was one of their breakout success movies. It’s kind of a superhero movie about a nerd who falls into a vat of toxic waste and becomes this, yeah, this mop wielding superhero. And, it was even made into a cartoon back in the eighties or early nineties, I guess. So, a lot of people have heard of the Todd avenger, maybe through the cartoon or just from pop culture, but it maybe never even seen the movie. This movie studio, it is as punk. It’s as punk as film really gets, I would have to say. Lloyd Kaufman is pretty much the spokesperson for this this whole thing. He’s directed almost most of the trauma, you know, produced films and he has a real sensibility about him to just make movies that are entertaining, movies that are never boring, and most of them are built around exploitation is is putting it mildly. It’s basically shock and fun and tons of comedy, mixed in with whatever genre he’s doing, whether it be a war movie, whether it be a horror movie like we’re talking about today. Whenever you see a trauma movie, you’re gonna see extreme. You’re gonna see extreme everything, but I would say from my point of view, it’s always a lot of fun, and it’s always tongue and cheek. And it’s super campy, but it’s campy in a way that just really works for me. Trauma’s got a lot of fans around the world, but I have this feeling that Craig’s not gonna be one of them.

Craig: Nope. Probably not.

Todd: Alright. Before I turn the mic over to you, I just have to say I have to put this out there. I saw my first trauma movie when I was maybe 10 or 11 years old. My dad rented the Todd adventure for me, and we both watched it together. And I don’t know who is more horrified by that movie, my dad or me. I’d never seen anything quite like it. It is super campy, but it’s also really gory. And it was kind of a horror comedy before we had a lot of horror comedy. And the kind of horror comedy that it is, is a little different from the kind of horror comedy that I think we’re used to where we’re cracking jokes and we’re making fun of the genre. This really just mixes in a lot of dumb juvenile humor with extreme gore and violence. And, that’s it’s so funny to imagine that there’s a Saturday morning cartoon that came out of that movie. But as a kid, it freaked me out. The movie freaked me out. It really stuck with me, and it wasn’t until later when I got to be a teenager and I got a little more interested in film and I started to seek out other others of Troma’s films, I started to really get a sense of their sensibility. And like I said, it’s punk. It’s total punk. These guys have been thumbing their nose at the establishment, Making these movies regardless get a huge cult following. Most of their movies, are produced for like a half a $1,000,000 and, not all of them are successful, not all of them make their money back. In fact, most of them don’t, but they still manage to have this cult following around the world. So to the point where people will work on their movies for free. And that’s the only way they can get them done so cheaply is so much volunteer slave labor on these things. They they’re truly labors of love no matter what you may think of them. So, Craig, what did you think of them?

Craig: Okay. So if I were a straight white 13 year old boy having a sleepover with my buddies and we were like maybe sneaking a couple beers out of our parents’ fridge or something, this movie would be awesome, because every line is a dick joke or a poop joke or a, I don’t know. And there’s, like, boobies bouncing around and that great. Okay. See, like, here’s the thing. I don’t know how to approach this because I really didn’t care for it. But I get what they were going for and I feel like they totally accomplished what they were going for. So, how can you really be critical when they succeeded in what they were going for? I mean, it’s meant to be raunchy. It’s meant to be stupid. It’s meant to be it’s not meant to be taken seriously. And so, I get it. I get what they were going for. It’s just it’s so it’s so stupid. Like, I could like, I could just feel my brain cells jumping ship, like If If if I were a recreational drug user, like, maybe this would be a lot of fun. I don’t know, but, I don’t know, Todd. Like, I I’m kind of at a loss for what to say.

Todd: This is so funny. I feel like I finally broke you. Because you and I are usually on the different sides of this. You know? You’re usually the guy who says, I love the raunchy stuff. I, you know, I I am I’m a kid at heart, and the juvenile humor doesn’t bother you as much as it seems to bother me. So I don’t know. I just have this big space in my heart for this kind of movie when it’s done right. And I just think it’s really funny that you you dislike it so badly.

Craig: Oh, gosh. I don’t know. I don’t wanna, like, I don’t wanna be a stick in the mud. I don’t wanna make it seem like I’m, you know, some kind of pretentious ass who can’t appreciate a good dick joke. Like, I like a good dick joke as much as anybody else. That’s great. But when it’s an hour and 45 minutes long and like, literally, literally, every single line is some kind of dick joke or or Racist. Yeah. Racist, homophobic, and I’m not seriously, I’m I’m not. I I really am not sensitive about those kinds of things. Like, when it’s in good fun, which this is, I you know, I think it’s in good fun. I don’t think that these people are, you know, legitimately yeah. They are trying to be insulting in a in a certain way, I guess. But But

Todd: not in a mean spirited way.

Craig: Not in a mean spirited way.

Todd: That’s right. South Park kinda way. Right? I mean, we poke fun at everybody sort of thing.

Craig: But, like, times a 100, like Yeah. I don’t know. I I just and and I like, I’m I’m trying to take notes over this movie and I’m, like, what am I supposed to write Todd? Like, when when every single line is a joke, like, I can’t keep track of all that. Like, I don’t even know I don’t I don’t even know what to single out, like, oh, and then there was this funny part. No. It’s not like, oh, and then there was this funny part. It’s like the whole movie is a gag. Like, the whole movie is a gag and it’s fine. Like, honestly, like, I should probably save this to the end. Like, this this feels like a wrap it up kind of statement. But and I’ve said this before. If you’re a fan of ours and you’ve listened to our especially our older episodes, you’ve heard me say this before. If I were having a Halloween party and I had a TV set up in every room, this would be a great movie to have on in the background because it’s so ludicrous and you could watch a minute of it and laugh, or you could see what was going on on screen and be like, wow, that’s crazy and ridiculous and that’s fun, but to sit down and watch it for an hour and 43 minutes or however long it was, It it was a little much for me. And, you know, I’m I told I told my partner. I’m like, I have to go watch a movie about zombie chickens now, and he was like, okay. Whatever. And then I was watching it, and he was walking, you know, back and forth through the living room where I was watching it. And, like, he would just see the things on the screen, and he would be like, oh my god. What are you watching?

Todd: He wasn’t compelled to sit down and stay?

Craig: No. And and this morning when I was getting ready to do it, he’s like, are you excited to talk about your zombie chicken movie? And I was like, I don’t know. And he was like, well, make sure that you talk about the butthole shooting out the poop part. And I was like, oh, you mean that one part? No. Like, that happens, like, 14 times. It’s not like that. It’s just one time. Like, that is a major motif in this movie. It is a close-up of a butthole shooting out diarrhea. And and, like, of the hour and 43 minutes that this is, that probably takes up a good 10 minutes of it. That’s probably true.

Todd: There’s a lot of fluid happening in this movie. You know, I think the very first time I saw this, I, I do remember it feeling awfully long. And I don’t know this time around if I was just in the right mood or if because I knew the general story arc and I knew what was coming more or less. I mean, I only saw it once before. It’s not like I’ve come to this movie again and again. Right. But I remembered it it it just seemed like the quintessential trauma film for us to do because it it kind of is is is distilled purely unadulterated trauma stuff. And you’re right. It’s a gag a minute. Not most of their movies aren’t like this. I would say their later movies have become like this. And I think it’s because they’re competing against a society that’s really crept up and and and done what they were doing much better than they ever did it. And so they’ve just gotta go ultra extreme in order to compete anymore. If you look at South Park, for example, and and there’s actually a big trauma connection between, Trey Parker and Matt Stone, and they they were big fans of trauma. And they approached Lloyd Kaufman, to help them with, fund one of their very first films before they were doing South Park, called Cannibal the Musical, which is a fine little movie and it’s a trauma trauma movie. Lloyd Kaufman didn’t direct it, but it’s, very much a precursor to what South Park would eventually become in their irreverence and their kind of humor, their tongue in cheek nature. But they kind of took what trauma used to do and did it considerably better, a little more sophisticated if that can be I don’t really consider South Park sophisticated, but it’s it’s got its own sophistication, you know.

Craig: Yeah. It’s a little smarter. It’s a little more it’s a little more on the pulse of contemporary pop culture and stuff.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Seriously, like, I get what they were going for. And I’m not gonna say that it wasn’t funny. Like, it was funny. It was funny, but, like, I teach high school, and I I hear this stuff, you know, in the hallways and and when kids think I’m not listening, and it just strikes me as juvenile. And, like, you mentioned, Matt Stone and Trey Parker. Am I mixing up their last names?

Todd: I don’t know. You got it.

Craig: They were supposed to be in this movie. The main character, Arby, talks about and excuse me. Like, I am a public school teacher. I don’t use these words. But they were supposed to play his retard parents.

Clip: It’s you ditching me for college. I’m not ditching you, RB. And I think you should come with me. There’s still time to apply. Wendy, my mom’s a retard and my dad’s blind. I mean, how am I supposed to take care of them if I’m off somewhere getting smart?

Craig: And, it just didn’t work out, like, for whatever reason. So I I know that they’re fans, and, you know, they’re smart guys. You know, they’re Oscar nominated guys, and they know what they’re doing. And so the fact that they draw inspiration from this type of thing, I get it. I get it.

Clip: It’s just,

Craig: it’s it was just a little much for me. It’s just a little much

Todd: for me. It’s overload. It really is overload. You gotta know what you’re getting into with this movie, and I told you not to read anything about it.

Craig: I probably didn’t want you to know what you were

Todd: getting into. That’s that’s my fault. But, we really shouldn’t go beat by beat through this movie. I I don’t think. It’s like you

Craig: said You can. You can.

Todd: It’s there’s too much. There’s too much going on. So let me just give a quick overview of what the plot is, and then we can kinda talk about some different points and and pick out the things that, you know, we do like. I mean, there’s gotta be something you liked about this movie.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. There there are some things.

Todd: So, basically, it starts out. There’s an ancient Indian barrel burial ground, in Tromeville, which most of their movies take place in Tromeville. And there’s a guy and a girl in there. A guy’s name is Arby and the girl’s name is Wendy. Later on, we’re gonna get a manager named Denny, a dude named Paco Bell, a guy named Carl Junior. This is the level of humor we’re dealing with. Right? Because all this takes place about a fast food restaurant that gets built upon this ancient Indian burial ground. So it’s clear that they’re poking fun, and they do do a lot of poking fun at different horror movie tropes throughout the movie, but definitely not in a sophisticated way. It’s very much, in a punch in your in your face, you know, kind of way. They’re dry humping in the cemetery. Yeah. Actually, we gotta talk about. This is this is yeah. I like this scene.

Craig: I would say that this was my favorite scene of the movie and it did a good job of setting up for what was to come. But I could have just seen this scene and been done and that would’ve been okay. But, no, I did like this scene. So but I would much prefer to hear you talk about it. Oh my gosh.

Todd: Alright. So, anyway, Arby and Wendy are recent graduates from high school, and they’re making out and, he says a lot. I think it was hilarious. This is some Oh

Clip: my gosh. RB, you’re the best dry humper in school. Thanks, Whitney. That’s what the guys on the basketball team say.

Craig: Yeah. That was funny.

Todd: Anyway, she ends up taking off her shirt, and they’re gonna go all the way. So they’re they’re banging there in the cemetery. And at the same time, all of these zombie arms start popping out of the ground and start clawing at them, but they don’t notice. Big gag is, oh, Arby, your hands, it feels like they’re everywhere kind of situation. Mhmm. 1 of the zombie hands pokes a finger right up his butt and, it it breaks off his butt. And But they’re interrupted. This whole scene is interrupted by a guy with an axe. And I think all the zombie arms retreated to the ground at just that moment. And this guy with the axe comes against him and she screams. Oh, you’re thinking he’s coming to murder them. And she’s like, what’s that in his hand? He says, you you mean the axe? And she says, no the other hand. And he’s jerking off with his other hand. And in the movie, you know, you’ll see male anatomy or representations of male and adably quite liberally through this movie as well as female anatomy, and, they run off, basically. And the next scene that we get is of the American chicken bunker restaurant on the site of this ancient burial ground. And there’s a big group of protesters out there protesting, corporate America in general. I guess, in their small town, this chicken chain came in, and they’re afraid it’s gonna push out mom and pop. It’s kinda like the Walmart protest thing. And, you know, that’s sort of the thin thread of social commentary that this movie is built on is this anti corporate conglomerate message. And he comes back and, to that site, and I don’t know why he thinks he’s coming back to the why he’s coming back to the site. He wants to revisit the memory or something, but he’s surprised to find that there’s a chicken shack there. And, he sees his girlfriend is in the protesting group, but she’s making out with another girl, and that shocks him. And it turns out that she’s a member of CLAM, the college the college lesbians against mega conglomerations. And he gets so upset by this, that he goes into song. And so this is a musical as well. I I you probably weren’t expecting that either.

Craig: That was the only thing actually that I did know because the only thing that I did, like, usually when I’m preparing to take my notes, I go to the IMDB page and I write down the title and I look into see what year it came out and I look to see what it was rated and how long it is because I wanna know what I’m in for. But right there underneath, All That is always the you know, what genre it is, and it said comedy horror musical. And I was, like, really? Musical? And, and it is. You know, there are several, songs. I’m surprise. I’m a big fan of but, and this song like, they’re they’re bad like, they’re badly written, but it’s funny. Like, it’s it’s a funny kind of take on a movie musical. The lyrics are so silly and stupid and and raunchy and and dumb, but fun. I actually enjoyed the musical numbers, I have to say.

Todd: Yeah. Me too. You they do feel like they were written by, like, 12 year old boys, though. Right. The words. I think the music that itself could have actually been pretty good if it if it hadn’t all been put together with, you know, a synthesizer and a computer more or less. Right. The sound quality of it all is kind of, it’s just a poor mix. It’s it’s it’s poor orchestration and all that, but but, the the the songs are pretty solid for what they are. Right?

Craig: Well, and that’s the like, I the lyrics, though they are dumb, they are funny. And I think that the the fact that they are set to music because it’s it’s it’s very much in keeping with the rest of the movie, like, the the lyrics are are what you would expect to hear in any of the dialogue, but because it’s set to music, it just ups the camp. When I rolled out of

Clip: bed today, little did I know Wendy was gay. She dumped me for some hippie. Oh. Oh. With hairy pits and a sudden nose, she eats a snatch just like a pro in a Jenna Jameson like dyke porno.

Craig: So none of them are amazing singers or anything. Like, they’re fine. They can carry a tune. It’s fine. But, like, they’re, like, production numbers, like song and dance. Like, so you’ve you’ve got topless lesbians doing kick lines and, you like, all like, all kinds of crazy crazy stuff, and and that was funny. I yeah. I I I seriously, I’m sitting here feeling bad about being too critical of it because honest to God, like, they they knew what they were doing. They this is the type of movie they were trying to make.

Todd: And they do it very competently. Yeah. Right.

Craig: So just because I didn’t care for it doesn’t that doesn’t amount Todd much, you know. If this is the kind of movie you’re looking for then, man, you’re gonna get your money’s worth. Well, you know, that struck me

Todd: more than anything else this time around watching it is I was kind of in awe at the whole thing. And I know a little bit about the production history. And this movie was a bitch to make. This script had been around for years and they were should be re written by several trauma employees. The final version of it, I think ended up getting written by the guy who’s a longtime trauma editor, who edited this film. Lloyd Kaufman directed Todd and they actually had a really hard time raising money for it as they often do. Kaufman and Hertz both pitched in their own money as well as, dipped into some retirement savings in order to fund the movie. And sent out a call, and people from all over the world quite honestly, like, over 300 cast and crew members descended upon this place where they shot it. And all of them worked for free. I mean, most everybody in this movie worked for free. But the conditions were horrible because, you know, the they’re they’re cheap, you know? They’re

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: Cheap. And everybody had to know what they were getting into. Think they rented out. They used they shot all this at an old abandoned McDonald’s somewhere near New Jersey, or New York’s New York upstate. And then, nearby there was an abandoned church that they rented out and there were 70 people staying in this abandoned church while they were shooting this movie and only had one working bathroom. And they all people were dropping out left and right, but, you know, there’s a hard enough core group of people who wanted to do to be a part of a trauma film that they stuck through it and did this. So, you know

Craig: And and I I respect that, you know, like, that’s cool. When people get together and have a a common vision and and, you know, they wanna get something done and they’re willing to put in the work for, you know, peanuts or whatever, like, that’s cool. So I I have a lot of respect for the people who were involved, and I can only imagine that this was really super fun to work on. I mean, not fun to be living with 70 other people in an abandoned church with only 1 bathroom, but, to, you know, to be putting something together and and just having a good time, like Yeah. That’s that’s that’s awesome. Yeah. So cool.

Todd: And coming around to my point, you know, it doesn’t look like a movie done by a whole bunch of volunteers on an absolutely shoestring budget. The effects in there more or less are quite good and abundant, all practical. It’s shot on film. I thought actually the acting, I mean, it they’re all hamming it up. They’re all Yeah. Purposely hamming it up, but but that can also flop. Not everybody can ham it up well. And I felt like more or less everybody was doing a quite a damn good job. Like, I felt like you could probably take any one of these actors in this movie and maybe put them in a legit film and they would be able to hold their own.

Craig: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I agree. And another thing that I appreciated about it was that, you know, they they’re they’re making they’re indiscriminate about who they’re making fun of. You know, they’re making fun of kids. They’re making fun of gays. They’re making fun of black people. They’re making fun of, people with this. Yeah, Islam. They’re making fun of people with disabilities, but they have a diverse cast and Yeah. It it it seems like everybody’s in on the joke and it’s just in in good humor, you know. It’s it’s it’s not mean spirited. Like, I didn’t count or anything, but I specifically remember, you know, that there’s there’s one cast member who is clearly, really has a physical disability and is in a wheelchair and, like, they’re they they just pop up in and out and and despite the fact that the movie is is throwing around the word retard and and talking about, you know, people with disabilities and stuff, I didn’t get the sense that they were legitimately being disrespectful. I just thought that they were playing with these, gosh, I don’t know. You you know, they were they were trying to be

Todd: Subversive subversive comedy.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. It’s what it is. You know, like we, you know, the court jester is the only one who can get away with, you know, making fun of the king. You know, comedy is always kind of been in that realm and that’s why we can, kind of, forgive. We’re we used to be able to. Let me put it that way. It seems like recently, we’re having a really hard time with this. Yeah. And and I don’t wanna go off on another tangent, so I might just end up editing this out later. But, you know, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen, comedians in cars getting coffee with Jerry Seinfeld on, on Netflix. But, you know, he he talks with different comedians of different eras and that seems to be this common thing that keeps popping up. It’s about how it seems like comedians can’t even do their jobs anymore because Yeah. This subversive comedy just get completely gets taken seriously and comedians can’t explore dangerous territory because then they get raked over the coals and you know kicked off a projects and whatever you know they’re sort of their lives ruined by the social media mob who you know somebody was offended by something. And now I know don’t get me wrong I mean I think I’m not one of these guys that says PC culture is terrible because I think there’s a reason for it you know we don’t wanna make fun of people and stuff But there’s a certain point where it feels like the pendulum was swung just a little too far and, we’ve lost a little bit of what we were able to give to, you know

Clip: I yeah.

Todd: Accept. You know

Craig: what I’m saying? I totally know what you’re saying and it is kind of a tangent, but I think that it’s worth talking about. And I think that a lot of that comes from the fact that everything is filmed today. Like, you’re on camera all the time and it’s very easy to take things that you see in a video clip out of context.

Todd: Mhmm.

Craig: And comedians, it’s it’s kind of their job to make fun of people and and to make fun of themselves too and and I get it, you know, there are just jerky people who are legitimately nasty and mean, but then there are also people who are just trying it’s kind of the difference between laughing at somebody and laughing with somebody and Yeah. And this movie, you know, it Todd didn’t see it it didn’t at all seem mean spirited to me. Even though, you know, the language is coarse and, it describes or excuse me, it portrays some people in negative light, but it’s just for comedy, you know, like, we know that not all lesbians are militant, you know, protesters or whatever. Like, we know this. We’re we’re not stupid, but it’s a stereotype and it’s kind of funny to exploit. You know? And and in the and in the way that they do it, you know, like, that that group clam or whatever. Like, it’s it’s so silly. It’s so silly, but it’s funny and then and then, you know, so you’ve got a group of militant lesbians. Have them all take their tops off and do

Todd: a A dance number. Rubbing up against each other, making out, like, for, like, no lesbians ever. Right.

Craig: It’s not real. Like, oh, no. I get what you’re saying, and and I I wasn’t I wasn’t offended. They’re making gay jokes and and the one of the jokes okay. So, eventually what happens in this movie is because they built this chicken shack on, an ancient Indian burial ground, they the gay Mexican, cook, ends up jerking off into the food grinder, sloppy Joe, which they call a sloppy Jose, which is which is also his name. He’s Jose Paco Bell or whatever his name is. And then he comes back as a sandwich as one of those sloppy joes, and he talks to

Todd: Arby, who has Arby has gotten a job here despite his, his former girlfriend.

Craig: Right. Who’s a militant lesbian now.

Clip: Now there is some bad shit out of your way, honey. Oh, my Todd. What? By building an ACB on sacred ground, the general united 2 of the most disenfranchised races on the planet. Displaced Native Americans and the billions of chickens sent Todd the concentration coops. There hasn’t been such a lethal combination of chicken and Indians since Tanjuri was introduced to the American people. If you fail, the virus will spread, and those of you aren’t infected will be relocated to free range white meat reservation coupes.

Craig: And so eventually, there are zombie chicken eggs that start to hatch and, like, there’s all this craziness that goes on. But things like Denny, who is the manager, is black and he real he he he speaks in kind of that really super super stereotypical, like, plantation kind of accent. Mhmm. And and then when he dies and comes back as a Chicken. A zombie yeah. As a as a zombie chicken, one of the girls is, like, oh, no. He’s come back as a spicy Cajun chicken zombie. A black and chicken. Blackened. It’s so it’s so not PC, but that’s clearly what they were going for and it’s funny. I mean, if you have an open mind and a sense of humor and if you are not a racist, it’s funny.

Todd: So anyway, yeah. So you’re right. And so, everybody’s kind of eating this food which is clearly disgusting. They’re putting together this meal for this really, really rather large man. And I have to talk about this guy. His his real name is Joel Fleischicker And I think this was the last movie that he was in, but he is kind of an in joke with Troma films as well. If you go to his IMDB page, you’ll see he is an actor, but he has only been in Troma movies. And Lloyd Kaufman cast him as the big morbidly obese guy, this guy, in all of the movies. And this guy, bless his heart, has no problem playing this role and being made fun of in all these movies and, has become pretty endearing character, person to a lot of Trauma fans. He he’s had a lot of fans over the years. He has one of the more disgusting scenes in this movie where he he eats one of these eggs, goes into the bathroom, brings his food into the bathroom with him. His stomach is upset and, proceeds to basically shit a lot. That’s putting it mildly.

Craig: It’s so gross, like, and, like like, they’re we get camera angles from inside the toilet

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: And it’s just this big gross poopy butt Craig. Like, like, I don’t really need to see that. Falls forward and it’s like spraying

Todd: out his butt all across the walls and stuff. And and I mean, he’s naked. I mean, they don’t use clever camera angles to conceal anything in here. If anything, they’re just shoving the camera right where you don’t want it to go. And Arby goes at one point into the basement and has an encounter with a mysterious man who looks exactly like Arby except he’s older. And this is Right. Lloyd Kaufman actually doing a cameo.

Craig: Oh, is it? Mhmm. Oh, that’s funny. I didn’t know it. Yeah. And he That’s funny.

Todd: He’s so goofy. And it’s it’s funny. One of the I I think one of the gags that really works in this movie is Arby is so stupid. Like, everything just goes right over his head. And, basically, he starts telling Arby his own story, and it absolutely mirrors Arby’s story. He is Arby of the future.

Clip: You look young. I was young once, full of hopes and dreams until tell me. Hey. Who’s telling this story, schmuck? I was gonna go to college, get a degree, but mom mom was a retard and dad got blind and had to support him. So I took this shitty job at American Chicken Bunker and been there ever since. But I don’t mind. Another 13 years, and I’ll have enough money to be reunited with my best girl at college, Wendy. I had a girlfriend named Wendy, but now she’s a lesbian. Aren’t they all?

Todd: You think he’s maybe like a ghost or a spirit? At least that’s sort of how it’s presented. Like, Arby’s getting this vision of how he could be if he keeps working at the chicken shack. There’s even a musical number about it.

Craig: Which I really liked. It’s funny. I didn’t I didn’t know that this guy was the director. I just thought that he was the best actor in the movie. But, no, yeah, I liked I I liked that that scene, and it’s funny, like, everything again, we are just, you know, skimming the very top of this, because there’s so much that goes on. Like, RB is his job is he’s the counter girl. So He wears

Todd: a he has

Craig: to wear a skirt like stockings. And, like, when he and his older self are doing this number together, like, this song and dance number, like, they keep flipping up the backs of their skirts to reveal that they’re wearing thongs. Like, it’s just their butts and thongs and, it it was a it was a funny song, like, the oh, gosh. It’s it’s funny. It’s so silly.

Todd: And and, if you’re looking at the background throughout the whole thing, especially down here in the basement, like, for example, there are all these boxes stacked up. And if you’re really looking carefully, you see all these funny labels on the boxes like like, chicken parts, or, beaks and wings, or Vietnamese children, or German style Luftwaffles. Just all these it’s like Mad Magazine.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah.

Todd: The movie’s kinda like, an over the top Mad Magazine in a way.

Craig: That’s a good comparison. And I loved that magazine when I was an adolescent. So, really, maybe I would have liked this movie in those days too.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: I’m just far too I’m far too mature for it now. I’m far too Listen to you

Todd: suddenly. Sophisticated. I’m I’m gonna I’ve I’ve got this on record that you said this, and I’m gonna be playing this back in a

Craig: future podcast. Just so you know.

Todd: Basically, what ends up happening is other people start eating this tainted chicken. The the guy named Carl Junior, he gets oh, jeez. I don’t even remember how it goes down, But this woman this poor woman, whose name is Hummus.

Craig: Hummus. I

Todd: keep calling her Hamas. She’s the Muslim joke, of the movie. And this was not long after 911. Right? This would have been 2006. So they had to poke kinda fun at that as well. She gets blamed for everything that happens because she happens to be there when people are dying. So she’s blamed for the Mexican, but then they’re gonna cover it up anyway. And then she’s blamed for this this this Craig. Carl I don’t remember exactly what happens to Carl, but he’s feeling ill.

Craig: Yeah. Get your get your bleep button ready.

Todd: Oh, that’s right.

Craig: He a zombie chicken. That’s right. And it, like, clamps down on his wiener. And and And he comes to the monster. Yeah. He he runs out into the kitchen. He’s like, get it off. Get it off. And Hummus, like, tries to use a A mop. A mop handle to, like, smack it off, but it doesn’t work. And, so the guy turns around and bends over. It’s like, do something. So she takes the mop handle and shoves it all the way through his butt out through, apparently, his wiener and Which pops

Todd: through a chicken off.

Craig: So it comes all the way out. So it looks like a big wooden wiener sticking out of the front. And I thought he was dead for a while, but he’s not. And and like it’s just the little things like he thought he was dead and then he’s not, and he wakes up and he says something like, look at the size of my wood cock or something like that. And, like, it shows that the tip of his penis is, like Still. On the yeah. Is on the tip of the handle. And then later, he comes back as a zombie chicken, and he’s walking around with that giant wood cock.

Todd: And it and it gets stuck in a piece of equipment so he can’t get down the hallway. That’s what saves the rest of them. It’s Oh, it’s so silly. It is silly. Oh, anyway, when he’s coming out, I think he sprays a whole bunch of goop all over, you know, blood. Again. Whatever disgusting stuff is always spraying over everything. Sprays all over the chicken and taints it. In the meantime, the restaurant gets visited by the colonel. So there’s a colonel type character who found

Craig: Well, it’s the general. The general. The colonel. He’s the general. Alright.

Todd: He’s the general.

Craig: And he has a whole song and dance number, and it’s kinda funny. And it’s about, like, the he’s singing with the the militant lesbians, and they’re singing about, you know, like, corporate America and how it’s destroying the mom and pop shop shops and stuff. And, but the the funny thing, you know, he gets he gets in there, and, like, these deaths are happening all around, and he just keeps wanting to, like, keep them quiet, because it’s the grand opening, and there are these protests going on, and so there are reporters all around. So he just wants to keep everything hush-hush. Eventually, you know, after, the wiener spray gets all over the chicken, his big idea is to just take all these buckets of chicken out there and give them to the protesters and the reporters, and so they’ll get hooked on them, which works. But, like, the chicken, once it’s been contaminated, is just disgusting. Like, it’s covered in, like, this green slime and, like, it’s got these boiling pustules that are, like, popping and, like, squirting juice out and stuff. The people are eating the chicken and somebody’s like

Clip: Hey, general. Where are these tiny little bumps all over my chicken? Those, those are our new flavor pods.

Craig: Oh, flavor pods. I had difficulty watching this movie because there were several times when I literally thought I might throw up. Like Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Like, when they were eating when they were eating this stuff, and it was so gross, I can watch Freddy Krueger disembowel somebody and have no problem, but watching these people eating this disgusting Todd, I almost couldn’t handle it.

Todd: What Todd, he feeds some Todd, Wendy’s Wendy’s friend, what was her name?

Craig: Nikki. Nikki. The lesbian. But she’s not she’s not really a lesbian. It was a trick all along. She was Yep. In it with the general

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: To just bring publicity to their grand opening or whatever.

Todd: That’s the big twist. Yeah. And then pretty soon, basically, the whole everybody’s infected. And so, then we just get this back to back big gory mess. This was just a major practical effects extravaganza with all these sight gags and all these, creative ways in which these zombie chickens were, these people who had turned into zombie chickens were taking at taking each other out. I mean, there’s so much stuff. But like a guy, like, suddenly grows breasts all of a sudden, and when they take a shot That

Craig: was my favorite one.

Todd: Their 2 eggs, and these two little chicks pop out of the eggs and a zombie chicken starts feeding the chicks. Yeah.

Craig: Oh, there was all kinds of stuff that, like, an old lady zombie chicken and, like, seriously, like, these are just people in moderately good makeup, beaks and feathers, like, they’re half zombie, half chicken. Like, this this old lady who we’ve seen from the beginning, but now she’s a zombie chicken, she peels this guy’s face off, and then she sits down across from her husband and she says, I know it’s full of fat, but I just love the skin. She starts eating his face.

Todd: That honestly is the part that almost made me wanna vomit. It’s the little

Craig: things. And just, like, silly things, like, some of the peep most of the people have turned into zombie chickens, but some of them haven’t. And so the zombie chickens are are, like, chasing and killing the ones who aren’t. And then, like, there’s one point where this male zombie chicken is chasing 1 of the lesbians and, she happens to be a very buxom lesbian, and she gets up and on the table, and, like, her boobies are shaken, and she notices shaking her boobs. And he starts dancing Todd. And then we just cut away.

Todd: I was like, wow. She figured out how

Craig: to get away from that. It was so weird.

Todd: There’s no shortage of boobs in this movie.

Craig: No. All kinds of things going on. The the employees turn into the zombie chickens. You’ve got the cage the blackened Cajun chicken guy, and then the general turns into, like, this great big like, first, he turns into a great big giant egg, and then he hatches out, and he’s this great big zombie chicken. And so they’re fighting all these folks and, eventually, they Carl with the mop penis, he attacks, but they get him down and, Arby’s like,

Clip: I know somewhere deep within the bowels of this creature you become lives the soul of the beautiful racist animal inbred trailer trash I know and loved. So please tell us, how do we stop them? Whiskey. Carl, I need you to focus. 1st, tell me how to kill them and then I’ll give you a drink. Alcohol, RB. Alcohol. Fine. Be an asshole.

Craig: And so the gag is that alcohol is their weakness because alcohol is the weakness of Native Americans. Like

Todd: Oh my gosh.

Craig: It’s so wrong. It’s it is. It’s so wrong. At some point, he Arby Arby doesn’t get it because he’s so daft. But and then some more things happen and, like, eventually, RB and Wendy, yeah, get cornered they get cornered by a keg and Wendy’s like, look, Arby, beer. And he’s like, now is not the time. And then he goes into this whole monologue where he reflects back on hearing all of these things, and it culminates in him saying, oh, yeah. Everyone knows Native Americans are fucking drunks. And then and then when it cuts back from his monologue, she has already tapped the keg and killed all the zombies or, like, the ones that were attacking them. So alcohol is their weakness because they’re Native Americans. And, yeah, again, it is so bad. And and there there’s even a joke where, like, yeah, obviously, that’s their biggest weakness. I mean, unless we have some smallpox around, like It’s horrible.

Todd: It is horrible. But then he does you know what? He turns to the camera, and he says something very PC.

Clip: I mean, as soon as the Indians were tricked into becoming addicted to the white man’s fermented beverages, it’s felt disaster for these proud, proud people.

Todd: Anyway, then some random woman runs in and says, oh, my little girl is gone. Well, help me save her. And they’re like, we have to save the little girl, the little crippled girl. And the guy’s Arby says, oh, she’s crippled too? And the woman says, if that’ll help And so they end up, in the basement of the back in the basement of the chicken hatch, and it’s like an alien knock off. Like, they’re down there, and suddenly there are all these chicken eggs, and it’s all spooky. And they find the little girl down there and they’re confronted by the giant chicken again. The giant chicken’s coming towards them. There’s another song number and dance number. And just as he’s about ready to strike, he starts farting and all making all

Craig: these strange

Todd: noises and he explodes. And it turns out that he couldn’t handle Mexican food.

Craig: Right? Because he ate the Mexican guy. Oh, God.

Todd: So so bad. So, yeah. So they’re all dead. There’s a big song and dance number. Paco Bell has saved the day.

Craig: The only thing I I I feel like we can’t before all this happens, Mickey, the faux lesbian, she thinks she’s gonna escape by putting on the chicken mascot suit and she goes out and we don’t really know what’s happened to her and then she comes back and she’s in the chicken suit, but then when Wendy takes the chicken suit off of her, she’s a chicken zombie, and then she tries to bang, Wendy with a chicken weiner. Like like, she, like, she unzips her pants and pulls, like, this chick it’s like a a huge wiener with the chicken head. At first, RB thinks that, like, they’re just getting it on and he’s all mad about it, but then he comes back and, he sees what’s going on and he grabs the chicken winger, the chicken wing chicken penis, and he’s like How do I get you up? Now I will get you up. And eventually, the chicken, like, I’ll just say vomits on him. But, at least it’s clever. You know? That was that was clever. I I enjoyed the chicken wiener part. Yeah. I’ve been Sorry. Yeah. Once he’s

Todd: once he’s done, he just stands up, forgets about his girlfriend. Says, well, I guess my work here is done.

Craig: Alright. Okay. So right back to the so the guy explodes and then they they get away.

Todd: Yep. And, the next scene we see is of RB in the car and his girlfriend is driving, Wendy, and, the little girl is between them and they’re it’s it’s blue outside and they’re they’re talking about what their happy life is going to be. Oh, but the

Craig: the the reas wait. Hold on. The reason that they got away is because Hummus decided that she was gonna sacrifice herself to get rid of all the zombies and it turns out she’s actually like a white Playboy model with a bikini with a bomb strapped to her back. And so when Arby and Wendy and the little girl run out, the the whole place explodes and Hummus, has sacrificed herself. But the chicken zombies are dead and it’s all good. And so then they’re in the car and they’re driving.

Todd: He gives the girl a beer to calm her down. And, as she’s drinking the beer, she starts making all these noises. And, she vomits up an egg. And they’re like, oh, no. And they veer their car off. And this last scene is a big fat joke. It’s a joke, if you’ve ever seen any trauma movie that was made since Sergeant Kabukiman NYPD, which by the way is one of my favorite trauma movies, and it’s also probably the closest thing to a mainstream acceptable movie that they’ve made. Anyway, they shot this, the stunt for this movie of a car that totally flies up in the air and flips over then explodes. And that was a really expensive stunt for them, and so the movie that they did later, they just reused that footage. They worked it in. And as a kind of in joke, ever since then they have tried to work this footage into all of their subsequent movies even when they’re not even driving the same. Actually, they’re usually never driving the same car, but it’s a huge joke. And that’s how they end this movie, which is pretty funny if you follow Troma that they would actually end the movie with that that stock footage.

Craig: It’s funny because I I didn’t know that, but I assumed that that was the case. I assumed that they just pulled this footage from a different movie because Yeah.

Todd: You could tell. Yeah.

Craig: It doesn’t look anything like the rest of the movie. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: So that flips over and explodes and

Craig: Never been dead too. Yeah. Yeah. And then there’s a then there’s a fun Poultrygeist song with a little bit of Michael Jackson thriller choreography.

Todd: Yeah. What a movie,

Craig: Yeah. I I don’t know. I mean, again, every time we watch one of these bad movies, it’s always so much more fun to talk to you about it than it is actually to watch it. But I don’t know, you know, it’s it’s an oddity, you know, and and maybe not really in the world of trauma, but this is the only one that I’ve seen. So, it was an oddity for me and it’s just one of those things like I I’m glad I saw it because

Todd: You’re a completest.

Craig: I mean, I can I mean, now I can say I’ve seen 1 and I’m not dying to now go out and you know review their catalog or anything, but it was different? Did I enjoy it? No, not really. Can I appreciate what they were trying to do and can I say that I think that they succeeded in what they were going for? Absolutely. It’s juvenile. It’s dumb. There are certainly entertaining moments. I particularly enjoyed the musical numbers. There were parts of it that totally grossed me out and made me wanna barf, but, you know, I think that’s what they were going for, and so, you know, I’m I’m not gonna say that it was terrible because I think that they legitimately accomplished what they were trying to accomplish, and so I commend them for that. It’s just not my it’s just not my bag, you know. Yeah.

Todd: I’m gonna go out on a limb here and I’m gonna say that maybe this is possibly the best movie they’ve ever made. Wow. Because it is so competently done. It’s so funny. It’s well Todd. And set aside the fact that the humor is super juvenile, and that it’s super gross, visuals and things like that. The special effects are quite good for the most part.

Craig: As Fun.

Todd: As far as practical effects go, you know, they work. They there there’s loads of them in there. The movie pulls no punches in either direction. It’s not mean spirited, I think, at all, like you said. I think it’s just meant to be funny, and l think it is funny. It’s not everybody’s brand of humor. It’s not what, it’s not even normally what I particularly like. I just think this combination kinda works for me. I’m not always in the mood to see something like this, but, when I am, this movie really kinda really delivers the goods on all counts and manages to not be boring at all. I I wasn’t this time around, I really wasn’t checking my watch. I really wasn’t trying to see how long it lasted because I truly enjoyed almost every minute of this movie. I can’t say I enjoyed it, like, that not gleefully enjoying it, but I could say that it kept my interest. Is is that a better way of putting it? It kept my interest

Craig: for Sure. Fair enough.

Todd: Yeah. Every bit of runtime. It feels like they’re half a1000000, they milked it for what it was worth. Sadly, l don’t think it made very much. Maybe it made a lot more on DVD re release, but in the theaters it only made like $22 or something like that.

Craig: I read a funny story about how some guy went to a video store and and bought what he thought was going to be a DVD, laser cleaner. And for some reason, whatever reason, this movie was what he got. And he thought that it was so profane that he threatened to sue. But, apparently, it was, like, just a mix up. I you know, the the DVD cleaner was, you know, packaged, and and somehow it just this movie got in there, and so nothing came of it. But, like, this guy was just incensed. Like, he thought that it was, like, triple x horrible.

Todd: Can you imagine this guy who was so incensed when he actually sat through it for

Craig: Yeah. Right. Right.

Todd: 40 minutes. Oh, my Todd. This is horrible. I’ve gotta watch more. This guy wouldn’t have gotten past the first five minutes if he thought it was really that terrible. Sounds like he’s trying to get some money. Yeah. Well, Craig, I’m I’m glad to finally introduce you to Troma Films.

Clip: Oh, thank

Craig: you. What a movie to

Todd: do it on. They’re most extreme, I think, really. They’re most extreme. No. It’s it’s pretty representative of their as a whole.

Craig: Well and and to to be fair and to be honest, I’m glad that I know now. You know, I’ve known about them for a long time, but I’ve never seen any of their movies and now I’ve seen one and honestly, if this is really representative and maybe, you know, one of the best represent representations of, what they do, at least now I know. I like to learn things.

Todd: You are a lifelong learner, a student of film. Welcome to poultry guys. Alright. Well, it has been a lot of fun talking about it. Thank you guys so much for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can find us everywhere fine podcasts are sold or given away for free. And, you can also find us on Facebook where we have a page. You could like us there. Let us know what you think of Trauma Poultry Guys. What is your favorite trauma movie? I’d actually be really interested to hear that from our our listeners. You can also go to our website, 2 guys.redfortynet. Todd, where we have a huge back catalog of a 139 episodes. Holy crap. Yeah. We’re really we’re packing them in. So we got a 139 more plus in the future, hopefully. And, if you have any requests of movies you’d like us to do for one of those, please send us a message. Until next time. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.