In this conversation, we discuss personal experiences from the National show, debate the ethics of card alteration versus restoration, and reflect on the evolving interests of younger collectors. We also discuss the challenges of navigating the crowded venue and the need for better layout and organization. We express concerns about the increasing corporate influence on the hobby and the importance of maintaining a focus on card collecting. The discussion also touches on the future of the National, particularly the upcoming event in Detroit in 2028, and the excitement surrounding the potential for a more engaging experience for attendees.