The unseen conflict happening in cyberspace is a key battleground in the war in Ukraine. So to tell us in detail about a relatively unknown area of the conflict, we spoke to one of Britain’s greatest experts, David Alexander - an academic who has worked at very senior level on the development of both national cyber policy and operational capability for both the UK Government and Ministry of Defence. Patrick and Saul also discuss Putin's New Year's speech, the Ukrainian HIMARS strike in Makiivka, and answer some listeners questions.

Producer: James Hodgson

Twitter: @PodBattleground

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