Truth, Lies and Work

223. Why small talk is exhausting (according to science), with Associate Professor John Michel

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Welcome back to Truth, Lies & Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture — brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

Hosted by Chartered Occupational Psychologist Leanne Elliott and business owner Al Elliott, this is your Thursday deep-dive with a workplace expert.


🎙️ This Week's Guest: John Michel

Associate Professor at Loyola University of Maryland, John discovered that awkward small talk doesn't just make people uncomfortable — it leads to emotional exhaustion, the precursor to burnout. His research reveals the dark side of workplace chatter that's hiding in plain sight.


💡 Key Takeaways from John Michel

  • Surface-level is better. Until trust develops, keep workplace conversations professional. Personal topics can harm professional image.
  • Forced fun backfires. Don't mandate Fun Fridays. Organic socializing builds stronger relationships than manufactured activities.
  • Uncomfortable conversations isolate. Bad small talk makes people feel excluded, reducing their support network and increasing burnout risk.


    🎧 Want more from John Michel?

    – Website: https://johnwmichel.wordpress.com/
    – LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-michel-33883a5/


    🎧 Enjoying the show?

    Follow, share, and leave us a review — and join us Tuesday for our summer session where we chat about the fun side of work.


    🧠 Support with Mental Health and Well-being

    – Mind UK: https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/
    – Samaritans (UK): Call 116 123 or email [email protected]


    📬 Connect with Al & Leanne

    – LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/truthlieswork
    – Al Elliott: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thisisalelliott
    – Leanne Elliott: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetleanne
    – Email: [email protected]
    – Book a call: https://savvycal.com/meetleanne/chat


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