On November 24th, at least 27 people, including women and children, died trying to cross the English Channel in a small boat. A Kurdish woman from northern Iraq Maryam Nuri Mohamed Amin has become the first victim of this tragedy to be named. “Her story is the same as everyone else – she was looking for a better life," said one of her relatives for the Guardian. Was this tragedy preventable? Why the UK and France blame each other what does is have to do with Brexit? I talked to Andrew Geddes, a Professor of Migration Studies and the Director of the Migration Policy Centre at the Robert Schuman Centre for Advanced Studies at the European University Institute. Why does he think that too much focus on disrupting smugglers' networks might be counterproductive? Listen to our conversation.