Josh Hayden, the author of Remissioning Church: A Field guide for Bringing a Congregation Back to Life, shares wisdom from his own journey—moving from church planting to leading a 158-year-old congregation—and he helps us understand the difference between revitalization and remissioning.  He also talks about the power of what he calls “creative destruction” and reflects on the hope that churches and people really can change. If you are a ministry leader wondering how to lead your church through deep transformation and discovering a renewed mission, you’ll find both encouragement and practical guidance in this conversation.

THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Josh Hayden explains that remissioning involves inside-out transformation of the church through discipleship for the sake of neighbors and the world.
• Revitalization focuses on refreshing existing programs, while remissioning addresses deeper, DNA-level transformation.
• Josh Hayden underscores the importance of listening first—both to the church and the neighborhood—before making plans for change.
• Markus Watson highlights the challenge new pastors face in established churches, including resistance, sabotage, and managing change.
• Remissioning leaders must exegete both their congregation and their community to identify gaps and opportunities for meaningful connection.
• Josh Hayden stresses that successful remissioning requires teamwork; pastors must not attempt change alone.
• Markus Watson reflects on the emotional challenges of change, including the shame spiral that can occur when a church confronts its shortcomings.
• Josh Hayden illustrates the shame spiral with an example of unnoticed “No Running in the Halls” signs that undermined stated values of hospitality.
• Remissioning involves inviting the congregation into a process of repentance, learning, and transformation, rather than imposing outside solutions.
• Josh Hayden shares how tradition-to-innovation means honoring a church’s history while translating it into practices that serve current needs.
• Experiments in ministry should create shared experiences that allow for evaluation, learning, and adaptation over time.
• Josh Hayden describes creative destruction as embracing necessary endings so new life can emerge, drawing analogy from nature and industry.
• Effective change involves creating feedback loops, town hall conversations, and allowing time for the congregation to process and adapt.
• Not all experiments or changes need to succeed; failed experiments still provide valuable lessons for ongoing transformation.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Josh Hayden:
  • Iwa Collabora website
• Books mentioned:
  • Remissioning Church, by Josh Hayden
  • Canoeing the Mountains, by Tod Bolsinger
• Related episodes:
  • 16. Canoeing the Mountains, with Tod Bolsinger
  • 192. Leading Change Without Authority, with Roy Inzunza
  • 264. Building a Future-Focused Church, with Kara Powell, Jake M

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