Joining Saul and Patrick for this week's big interview, is the current Director-General of the Royal United Services Institute - Dr Karin von Hippel. In this brilliant and wide ranging interview, she talks in depth about China Russia relations, their growing influence in Africa, and the difficulties the West faces in the future.

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Producer: James Hodgson

Twitter: @PodBattleground

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Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.